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Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 23:09:11 -0600
From: Allen Hall <allenhall@srv.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: smoothbore rear sights
Frank,
I just was at the Museum of the Fur Trade about 3 weeks ago, and I noted
several of the trade guns also had actual front sights, not just grooves.
Why the folks ban them is probably because they don't know any better, and
don't want to learn.......
Allen
At 04:20 PM 09/02/2001 -0500, you wrote:
>
> A friend has a very nice repro NW trade musket that has a fine groove
>engraved at the breech end of the barrel. This groove is about 8 inches long
>and serves as a rear sight. It does not raise above the plane of the barrel.
> My friend said that when he visited the Museum of the Fur Trade he saw
>that about 25% of the trade muskets displayed had a similar rear sight.
> From my readings, I know that this was a common technique for having a
>rear 'sight' on a smoothbore.
> If such sights are period correct, does anyone know why they are banned
>from most primitive matches today? It seems to me that such banning is a
>'not-authentic' ruling by those wishing most to preserve history correctly.
>Frank G. Fusco
>Mountain Home, Arkansas
>http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/ozarksmuzzleloaders
>
>
>
>
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>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
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>
>
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Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 06:49:26 -0400
From: tom roberts <troberts@gdi.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The possibles bag
Paul,
Good point. Only carry bar lead now
when I'm going to be showing some young
folks how it was used.
T
> "Paul W. Jones" wrote:
>
> Larry and Members of the Liste,
>
> A number of you carry bar lead.
>
> My question is why. I can understand needing a ball mold, one can
> trade for extra lead when low on balls at a rendezvous if lucky, and
> the mold is surely needed at that point. But why bar lead? Why not
> carry an equivalent number of ready made balls? Same weight, and
> ready to use.
>
> Would appreciate some insight.
>
> regards,
>
> Paul
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Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 06:54:42 -0400
From: tom roberts <troberts@gdi.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: what exactly do "YOU" carry in your possibles bag?
Several reasons for the double quantity:
1) Sometimes someone else is along that I'm provisioned for (the bride
for example)
2) These things have a habit of wandering off all by themselves
3) It's no fun being in a bag by yourself - even if you're only a fork
<G>
Tom
HikingOnThru@cs.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 9/2/01 2:04:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, troberts@gdi.net
> writes:
>
> << ticking pouch containing:
>
> 2 hand forged forks (made by a fine Ohio blacksmith)
> 2 hand forged spoons >>
>
> Sounds like you eat like our crew...both hands going at once! Be careful not
> to choke ourself!!! <VBG> If you want to "Dog" around our fire you are more
> than welcome...we are the crew whose arms look like paddlewheels over a plate
> at mealtime!!!
>
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Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 08:30:18 EDT
From: CTOAKES@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: smoothbore rear sights
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In a message dated 9/2/01 5:21:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
frankf@cox-internet.com writes:
> If such sights are period correct, does anyone know why they are banned
>
First off my only/favorite .62 Tulle is fitted with rear sights which I have
documented as being done when a military musket was converted to civilian
use. And I love it as my old tri-focal eyes need the help when I hunt meat.
I am also a certified Range Officer Instructor/Range Officer (NMLRA).
And in establishing a shoot catagory and in the interest of fairness rules
have to be set for every shoot. And the majority of the smoothbores of the
period we recreate did not have a rear sight. And it would give an advantage
in national/regional competitions if a "good" shooter was allowed to use
sights for the paper/clanger parts of the competitions. Now note I said a
"good" as in "serious" shooter. Our club, long ago, decided the shooting was
for fun and bragging and so we allow the use of rear sights. And in the past
several years not one of the smoothbore shoots has been won by any of us that
have them. In the long run a good shooter is a good shooter with or without
rear sights.
But the NMLRA made the rule for all of their events and many
organizations/clubs follow suit just to prevent belly acheing. I for one
don't care, I ask to shoot the event but not for "recorded" score and have
never been turned down, so I still have fun. Or you can drift out your sight
for competition and put it back for hunting, up to you. But as the majority
of the smoothbores (not all) did not have sights that is the catagory the
competitions are set for.
Y.M.O.S.
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 9/2/01 5:21:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
<BR>frankf@cox-internet.com writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">If such sights are period correct, does anyone know why they are banned
<BR>from most primitive matches today? </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>
<BR>First off my only/favorite .62 Tulle is fitted with rear sights which I have
<BR>documented as being done when a military musket was converted to civilian
<BR>use. And I love it as my old tri-focal eyes need the help when I hunt meat.
<BR>I am also a certified Range Officer Instructor/Range Officer (NMLRA).
<BR>
<BR>And in establishing a shoot catagory and in the interest of fairness rules
<BR>have to be set for every shoot. And the majority of the smoothbores of the
<BR>period we recreate did not have a rear sight. And it would give an advantage
<BR>in national/regional competitions if a "good" shooter was allowed to use
<BR>sights for the paper/clanger parts of the competitions. Now note I said a
<BR>"good" as in "serious" shooter. Our club, long ago, decided the shooting was
<BR>for fun and bragging and so we allow the use of rear sights. And in the past
<BR>several years not one of the smoothbore shoots has been won by any of us that
<BR>have them. In the long run a good shooter is a good shooter with or without
<BR>rear sights.
<BR>
<BR>But the NMLRA made the rule for all of their events and many
<BR>organizations/clubs follow suit just to prevent belly acheing. I for one
<BR>don't care, I ask to shoot the event but not for "recorded" score and have
<BR>never been turned down, so I still have fun. Or you can drift out your sight
<BR>for competition and put it back for hunting, up to you. But as the majority
<BR>of the smoothbores (not all) did not have sights that is the catagory the
<BR>competitions are set for.
<BR>
<BR>Y.M.O.S.</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 10:07:40 -0600
From: Allen Hall <allenhall@srv.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: smoothbore rear sights
At 04:07 PM 09/03/2001 -0500, you wrote:
>A popular example of this is the 1851 model Colt
>patent revolver these "southwestern" fur hunters are wearing.
Yeah! And I'd love to see them boys wearing them duds while setting traps
in the water. Hell! They'd be gurgling water outa them fancy boots for
hours! Them fine straw hats would hold up a ton on snow, give a feller a
stiff neck. Oh yeah, I can see 'em now.......
Allen
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Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 09:20:32 -0700
From: "rtlahti" <rtlahti@msn.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: smoothbore rear sights
Allen,
I'm enclosing a post by me to the mlml list where this subject came up. Much
good information was exchanged on the history of "no rear sights" in modern
smooth bore shooting. Not because I am a fan of NMLRA but rather in the
spirit of fairness, I now understand the reasons behind the rule and why it
hasn't been changed (in certain circumstances) by NMLRA. In a post following
this one, a member of mlml pointed out that NMLRA now has opened some
categories where rear sights are permitted on smooth bores (differentiating
