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hist_text-digest        Tuesday, April 24 2001        Volume 01 : Number 793



In this issue:

-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Tents
-áááááá MtMan-List: Tent Summary
-áááááá MtMan-List: Re: Peter Rindisbacher (was: Tents)
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Tents
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Tents
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: Peter Rindisbacher (was: Tents)
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: 49er tent
-áááááá MtMan-List: Re: torchecul
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: 49er tent
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Tents
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: torchecul
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Tents
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Tents
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Tents
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Tents
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: torchecul
-áááááá MtMan-List: Mole
-áááááá MtMan-List: Questions on accoutrements
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Questions on accoutrements
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Questions on accoutrements
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Questions on accoutrements
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Questions on accoutrements
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Mole
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: tents
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Questions on accoutrements

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 07:08:26 -0500
From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tents

"I might point out that the impracticallity of this has led to the
acceptance
of the Whelan style tent as it was based on this type of shelter."

Keep in mind that Col. Towsend Whelan, the inventor of the Whelan tent,
lived well into the 20th century......a tad out of the rdv period.  Anyone
accepting the Whelan tent should not look down on the pyramid tent, which is
a earlier design by many decades.
Lanney Ratcliff


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Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 07:17:37 -0700
From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Tent Summary

Lanney,
The tent's that should be period correct for the period 1800 to 1840 are=
The tarp,wedge tent with or without bell back, the connical, the Tipi, wall
tent. There are lots of tent's that predate the RM Fur trade but they were
not use like the Marque and pavilion. just my thoughts.
YMOS
Ole # 718
- ----------
>From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
>To: <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tents
>Date: Mon, Apr 23, 2001, 5:08 AM
>

>"I might point out that the impracticallity of this has led to the
>acceptance
>of the Whelan style tent as it was based on this type of shelter."
>
>Keep in mind that Col. Towsend Whelan, the inventor of the Whelan tent,
>lived well into the 20th century......a tad out of the rdv period.  Anyone
>accepting the Whelan tent should not look down on the pyramid tent, which is
>a earlier design by many decades.
>Lanney Ratcliff
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

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Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 07:47:57 -0600
From: Angela Gottfred <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Peter Rindisbacher (was: Tents)

Magpie ([e-mail]) wrote:
>  Have you seen any more of Rindisbacher's
>prints/paintings? I gather he did quite a few drawings in 1820 or so...

Actually, I had that link handy because I'd just compiled an inventory of
all the Rindisbacher art currently on the net. Here it is:

http://www.bell.lib.umn.edu/Rind/Rind.html
http://collections.ic.gc.ca/hbc/catex9c1.htm
http://www.canadianheritage.org/reproductions/10275.htm
http://www.canadianheritage.org/reproductions/23259.htm
http://www.glenbow.org/libhtm/aug10.htm
http://www.glenbow.org/libhtm/rindisba.htm
http://members.nbci.com/hexaquad/photo-ck33f.htm
http://www.worldwidewatercolor.com/historicalartpage3.htm

The best book on Rindisbacher, packed full of his paintings & sketches, is:

Josephy, Alvin M. (Jr.). The Artist Was a Young Man : The Life Story of
Peter Rindisbacher. Amon Carter Museum : Fort Worth, Texas, 1970.

We owe a lot to young Peter for recording all he saw on his adventure in
the New World.

Your humble & obedient servant,
Angela Gottfred





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Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 10:19:29 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tents

In a message dated 4/23, [e-mail] writes:

<< Keep in mind that Col. Towsend Whelan, the inventor of the Whelan tent,
 lived well into the 20th century......a tad out of the rdv period.  Anyone
 accepting the Whelan tent should not look down on the pyramid tent, which is
 a earlier design by many decades. >>

Not looking down on anything Lanney. Just making an observation.  Spent many
a rendezvous in my partners Pyramid tent.  I don't criticize, I just do my
own thing as events that have taken place over the years leave me baffled
most of the time anyway.

 I had read an article some years back about how Whelan after reading about
and then doing some research on the shelters that some mountainmen made from
materials at hand, used the design to create his Whelan Lean-to style of
tent. The article then went on to say that for this reason this style of tent
had been acceptable at rendezvous because of it origins and the fact that
your local land owners or your local Park Rangers didn't take kindly to folks
butchering up the local landscape to make lodges. We do what we do centered
on two hundred or so years ago in a world of rules and political correctness,
and are therefore sometimes limited on just what we CAN do. This was a
somewhat old article and times do change, so it may have fallen out of the
good graces of the "Period Correct Police" in recent times, I don't know.

Longshot

********************************************************
"Longshot's Rendezvous Homepage"
(Newly Redesigned)
http://members.aol.com/lodgepole/longshot.html
********************************************************

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Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 08:07:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Sega <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tents

In reply to long shots post. In the my previous post
you'll note I said that this was impractical at modern events.

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 11:52:47 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Peter Rindisbacher (was: Tents)

In a message dated 4/23/01 6:55:42 AM, [e-mail] writes:

<< Actually, I had that link handy because I'd just compiled an inventory of
all the Rindisbacher art currently on the net. Here it is: >>

Angela....you've got to much free time! Great list.....I'm headed up to
Calgary tonight, and if I can get outta bed in the morning, I'll look for
some of the sketches at the Glenbow museum.


<<HBC 83-23 E
Peter Rindisbacher
Red Lake Indians Salute Governor Bulger at Fort Douglas>>

This is a good picture.... Can't say I've ever seen anyone wearing a red
leggin on one side and black on the other.... You reckon he has another pair
just like em at home....or traded for only one with the guy next to him?? <G>
Thanks again,
Magpie


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Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 14:20:27 -0500
From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 49er tent

If you read carefully NOWHERE do I state a marquee was not used prior to
1800.  I said one didn't show up at a modern rendezvous before the late
'70's traders were the first to use them as it made it easier to display
their wares to people more used to shopping blue light specials.

I would like to see the documentation you have that a marquee was used at
an original rendezvous.  Just because something existed before our period
of interest does not provide any conclusions as to whether or not it ever
made it to the Rocky Mountains 1800 to 1840.  Torchecul was known by the
mid-1700's I've seen no documentation any was traded at rendezvous, almost
everybody uses it there today, even at the most primitive gatherings.

The original question regarded 49er miner tents, it grew to include the
appropriateness of any tent at rendezvous.

John...

At 02:39 AM 4/23/01 -0400, you wrote:
>what makes you think a marquee what NOT in use prior to the fur trade era?
>what sort of documentation and how much do you want..
>::grins::
>round or rectangle?
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>
>Somebody asked for a conclusion:
>
>At one time Whelen leantos were common.  Most camps back when (early '70's)
>were tipis, Whelens, a few Bakers, and fewer still wall tents.  I didn't
>see the first Marquee at a doin's until the late '70's or early '80's.
>
>Tents at rendezvous are enough of an anomaly without including tents out of
>their historic time, not to mention place.  At public gatherings where
>folks want a private place to get naked it seems only reasonable that the
>tents should have at least some relevance as to time period.
>
>The documentation just doesn't exist for a miners (pyramid) tent, as it
>doesn't for a leanpee, or a Whelen, or any one of a few dozen other designs
>to have been in use prior to 1840.
>
>If one wants a single center pole design either the pavillion style or a
>simple conical tent should suffice nicely.  Given the quality of Miller's
>details either could be what some want to see as a pyramid.  Both were at
>least known before 1840 though it is still questionable if they made it to
>rendezvous; the conical is probably more likely than the pavillion.
>
>A fur company might have had a wall tent or one of the many variations
>thereof.  At best a trapper might have had a tarp.  An adventurer might
>have carried a wedge or conical.  Only someone with a native born wife
>would have a tipi.
>
>In essence the pyramid is no more correct for rendezvous than a Whelen,
>Forester or Baker tent.  There are a great many styles available depending
>on the size needed.  It seems silly to choose one with no pre-1840 historic
>precedent.  Any other interpretation, in the face of a lack of relevant
>evidence, is only wishful thinking.
>
>If you are portraying a 49er miner; the pyramid is perfect.
>
>John...
>John T. Kramer, maker of:
>
>Kramer's Best Antique Improver
>  >>>It makes wood wonderful<<<
> >>>As good as old!<<<
>
><http://www.kramerize.com/>
>
>mail to: <[e-mail]>
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
John Kramer  <[e-mail]>


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Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 16:26:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Sega <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: torchecul

In reply to John Kramers post:  Please pardon my
ignorance, but what is Torchecul?

Sega

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/

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Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 22:32:33 -0400
From: "'bella" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 49er tent

> If you read carefully NOWHERE do I state a marquee was not used prior to
> 1800.  I said one didn't show up at a modern rendezvous before the late
> '70's traders were the first to use them as it made it easier to display
> their wares to people more used to shopping blue light specials.

I know.... I realized that
AFTER I hit that stupid send button... =)

Could it be more, that Rendevous were starting to evolve into more than a
bunch of like minded
friends and some saw a business waiting to happen?
In period, did all merchants sit outdoors?  I am sure some or a lot did..
but others might
possibly have put their wares in tents?

Guess I will have to put that on the list of things to research.. right now
I am making middle
eastern stuff.   <G>

Here is a question for the list...  chocolate drink, the mix it stuff is
called Moli (sp?)
it is a chocolate./chili mixture.. would that have been common in the
southwest during
the fur trade era?
I know that hot chocolate was brought back to Europe by the Spanish and
originally the Mexica
drank it that way.. bitter, no sugar, with chili peppers in it..

'bella aka munchkin...  sigh., yep  mike surfaced long enough to call me a
munchkin and tell me he
is 'making barrels for uncle sam''........sigh.........


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Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 22:57:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Possum Hunter" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tents

Why make such a fuss over a tent? If the Whelan tent had been around =
back then, they would have used them. In fact, they would have been =
walking around camp wearing Chee-tos Orange chrome tan, eating Sno-Cones =
and Snickers bars, shooting plastic stocked Knight in-lines, chugging =
beer out of the can, smoking Marlboro's, and having a grand ole =
porkyvoo.
They would have had their gooey fingered rug rats pawing everything in =
sight and playing "injun" with rubber tommyhawks and wearing purple =
turkey feathers.
If anyone dared to question them on why they were using something =
invented 180 years in the future, or poke fun at them for being dressed =
like a Chee-to, them *REAL* Mountain men would have called 'em an =
"Authenticity Nazi" and throw him out of camp. Then those *REAL* =
Mountain men would have went to their air conditioned motorhomes to =
catch the ballgame and go to bed!

Possum

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Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 23:12:05 -0500
From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: torchecul

By the late eighteenth century both torchecul and bumfodder were=20
colloquialisms for "soft paper for the necessary."

John...


At 04:26 PM 4/23/01 -0700, you wrote:
>In reply to John Kramers post:  Please pardon my
>ignorance, but what is Torchecul?
>
>Sega

John T. Kramer, maker of:=A0

Kramer's Best Antique Improver
 >>>It makes wood wonderful<<<
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 >>>As good as old!<<<

<http://www.kramerize.com/>

mail to: <[e-mail]>


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Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 22:30:42 -0600
From: "Clay J. Landry" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tents

1) Tents-Several mountaineer written accounts mention using tents-James O.
Pattie and John Kirk Townsend are two that come to mind. Townsend  wrote
"The men of the party, to the number of about fifty, are encamped on the
bank of the river, and their tents whiten the plain for a distance of half
a mile." He was describing the 1834 caravan to the mountains of Wyeth and
Sublette.  William Marshall Anderson at the 1834 Rendezvous, "the redskins
are flocking to the trading tents." If you look at the list of goods sent to
the mountains by the AMFC in 1837-in Rudy's web site- you'll see "a cloth
tent" at the end of this list. The AMFC ledger contain several other
listings of "cloth tents" and one even says "linen tent". There are also
several entries in the ledgers of "leather lodges". None of these
references, however give detailed descriptions of the style or design of the
tents used. We do, however have several Alfred Jacob Miller paintings and
drawings which depict mountaineers using a wedge tent. In studying Miller's
art work I try to "emphasize" the 1837 "spot" sketches (actual drawings made
in the field). Notice I said "emphasize" so as to mean not to ignore the
works done later in his life. My premise here is that the "spot sketches"
more accurately reflect what Miller actually saw without the influence of
studio induced "artistic" impression. Marvin Ross's book "The West Of Alfred
Jacob Miller"
contains a chapter entitled "Reassessment 1967" in which he discusses this
very point. With that said it is very clear, even in the spot drawings, that
Miller drew the trappers using wedge tents. In one 1837 drawing entitled
"Picketing the Horses-At Evening" (located at the Amon Carter Museum, Forth
Worth TX) there are two wedge tents in the background, one plain and the
other with stripes. I point this out because in later done versions of this
field sketch Miller changed the wedge tents to tipis!

2) Trappers in tipis: In the Fort Hall ledgers there is an entry dated Feb
20 1836 "1 Lodge sold the Trappers $35". Another earlier entry dated Feb 2,
1835 under Joseph Gale-"To your proportion being 1/6 of cost of a Lodge
traded of Indians ....$5.85". Same date but on the next page-"Wm Burroughs,
John Greenbury, Wm Waller, Asa Lay, & Thomas Callaghan --To your part of A
Lodge.....$5.85" From these two entries it would appear that 6 mountaineers
were going to winter together in an Indian tipi-each being charged 1/6 of
the cost. Warren Ferris describes a trapper winter camp consisting of "8
lodges" and goes on to describe tipi living as a pleasant experience.
Trappers did not need to hitch themselves to an Indian woman in order to
winter over in a tipi.

3) Marquee tents-David L. Brown is his account "Three years in the Rocky
Mountains" in
describing the 1837 rendezvous stated  "The tents were identical in shape
with those we see represented in old English engravings as belonging to
knights and warriors; and between an around their dazzling white and
symmetrical outlines, were grouped in exquisite tableaux etc." He goes on to
later state that some of his most pleasant times "were spent in the
hospitable marquee of Mr. Mcleod.

Clay Landry
Moorhead MT




- ----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Sega <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 9:07 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tents


> In reply to long shots post. In the my previous post
> you'll note I said that this was impractical at modern events.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
> http://auctions.yahoo.com/
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>



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Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 23:40:37 -0500
From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tents

Thanks Clay,

Good info.  You have been digging deep.

I'll drag my big marquee along to more events now.  As long as I don't have
to carry it in on my back.

John...


At 10:30 PM 4/23/01 -0600, you wrote:
>2)...
>Trappers did not need to hitch themselves to an Indian woman in order to
>winter over in a tipi.
>
>3)  "were spent in the
>hospitable marquee of Mr. Mcleod.
>
>Clay Landry

Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
John Kramer  <[e-mail]>


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Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 07:15:04 -0700
From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tents

John,
You can stay in mine, if I can get Ferral to pack it in?.
YMOS
Ole # 718
- ----------
>From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
>To: [e-mail]
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tents
>Date: Mon, Apr 23, 2001, 9:40 PM
>

>Thanks Clay,
>
>Good info.  You have been digging deep.
>
>I'll drag my big marquee along to more events now.  As long as I don't have
>to carry it in on my back.
>
>John...
>
>
>At 10:30 PM 4/23/01 -0600, you wrote:
>>2)...
>>Trappers did not need to hitch themselves to an Indian woman in order to
>>winter over in a tipi.
>>
>>3)  "were spent in the
>>hospitable marquee of Mr. Mcleod.
>>
>>Clay Landry
>
>Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
>John Kramer  <[e-mail]>
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

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Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 07:21:34 -0700
From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tents

Clay,
I have the west of Alfred Jacob Miller and find it of great value, kind of
like having a snap shot.
The sketches were made to reference subjects he had seen so that he could
pick and choose what he would paint at a later date, so I think of them as
un spoiled.
YMOS
Ole # 718
- ----------
>From: "Clay J. Landry" <[e-mail]>
>To: <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tents
>Date: Mon, Apr 23, 2001, 9:30 PM
>

>

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Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 11:42:23 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: torchecul

In a message dated 4/23/1 09:14:15 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<<By the late eighteenth century both torchecul and bumfodder were

colloquialisms for "soft paper for the necessary.">>

Thanks, John.  That's what I needed to make my day.  I'm going back to bed
now.  See ya tomorrow.
Dick J

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Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 12:16:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Sega <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Mole

Mole is a combination of ground chile spices and sweet
ingredients, there could be chocolate in it as it
varies from recipie to recipie.  It is not a drink
however, as I have only seen it used as a sauce or
marinade for meat.  You can get a kind of chocolate
that is much like what was drunk in the spanish
colonies of the era.  It comes in 4" round disks, and
is composed of coacoa (sp) granulated sugar and
cinnamon.  Comes in a little  octagonal paper box that
is red and yellow and the only brandname I can
remember is Abuelas or something like that.  Check
your local mexican market.  It's not at all like swiss
miss.  I grew up in Taos NM and don't ever recall
drinking it there, it is apparently popular in Mexico.

Sega

Sega

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Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 13:56:42 -0600
From: Les Chaffin <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Questions on accoutrements

I am trying to make put together some accoutrements for my shooting bag.
What kinds of accoutrements are carried in or on a shooting pouch?
One of the things that I want to do is make a loading block.  How is a
block made, what kind of wood is used?
What is a cow's knee?
Last question What is tow and where can a person get it?

Thanks,
Les
- --
Les Chaffin mailto:[e-mail]
Twin Fall, Idaho


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Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 16:43:59 -0400
From: "Possum Hunter" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Questions on accoutrements

Les Chaffin wrote:
> What kinds of accoutrements are carried in or on a shooting pouch?

I grabbed mine and my Hawken bag has a Thompson / Center powder measure, A
combination nipple pick/wrench, A capper, A tin of caps, A tin containing a
patch worm and a ball puller (but *I* never dry-ball mine! <VBG>), A small
bottle of moose milk, A tube of Bore Butter, A ball pouch, A ball starter,
and pillow ticking
My smooth bore bag has a home made vent pick, 2 spare flints,  A cow horn
powder measure, A tin containing a tow worm, a ball puller, and a cleaning
jag, a bottle of moose milk, a tin of bore butter, a ball pouch, and pillow
ticking.
>
> One of the things that I want to do is make a loading block.  How is a
block made, what kind of wood is used?

I made one out of oak. I just drilled 1/2" holes in it (for my .50 cal
Hawken) used it for one shoot and figured it to be more trouble than it was
worth. I will look and see if I still have it. If I do I would be glad to
mail it to you.
>
> What is a cow's knee?

Same as a human knee but on a cow instead. <VBG>
>
> Last question What is tow and where can a person get it?

Tow is the stringy fiber left over from making linen cloth from flax. It
makes a dandy bore scrubber and then when you are done cleaning your gun,
makes the best fire starting tinder known to man. Tow can be purchased from
The K Company, 128 B Lebby Street, Pelzer SC 29669 phone [phone] or
1-864-947-2788

Possum


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Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 16:53:37 -0400
From: "Possum Hunter" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Questions on accoutrements

Lee I almost forgot when I wrote about Moose Milk. I have not taken up the
moose dairy business. Moose Milk is a bore cleaner made of one part Murphy's
Oil Soap, One part Hydrogen Peroxide and 2 parts 190proof grain alcohol. It
will get black powder and pyrodex fowling out of your barrel and leave it
clean as a whistle.

Possum


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Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 17:05:15 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Questions on accoutrements

> Moose Milk is a bore cleaner made of one part Murphy's
>  Oil Soap, One part Hydrogen Peroxide and 2 parts 190proof grain alcohol. It
>  will get black powder and pyrodex fowling out of your barrel and leave it
>  clean as a whistle.

So will plain, cold water; so why use the concoction?
Moose Milk is a combination of water soluble oil and water.  It is used as a
dry, patch lube, but can be used as a bore cleaner if you have a shortage of
plain water.  OTOH, it leaves the bore lubed after cleaning so you don't have
to oil it up right away.

Hydrogen peroxide is an oxidizer.  That's why they make rocket fuel out of
it.  Now, mix that with a flammable like alcohol and what do you have.  H2O2
is no longer recommended for BP use.  There is at least one documented case
of a bottle of your suggested cleaning solution exploding while sitting in
the sun on the firing line.  What if it was sitting next to a lb of powder?
We ain't worried about the shooter if he don't know any better......just the
kid or woman who happens to be standing there watching the match.  It just
ain't worth it when water will do just as well.

Dave Kanger

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Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 14:10:38 -0700
From: "Roger Lahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Questions on accoutrements

> I am trying to make put together some accoutrements for my shooting bag.
> What kinds of accoutrements are carried in or on a shooting pouch?

Les,

Powder, measure, patching, knife, tow, tow worm, olive oil or bear grease or
both, screwdriver/pin punch/ball puller, ball puller screw, file, flints,
pliers, touchhole pick, maybe a short starter. Less is more. Dangle's get in
your way.


> One of the things that I want to do is make a loading block.  How is a
> block made,

Drill a series of holes in a block of wood that is not quit as thick as the
balls are wide ( helps the ball center on the muzzle). Holes need to take a
patched ball just snug enough so they don't drop out. Three to 5 holes is
about right. A straight line works best for storage for me. Put it on a
lanyard for around your neck when your seeing action. Throw a measure of
powder, punch a ball down the bore and drop the block. Ram the load home,
prime with your main horn and give'em hell.

>what kind of wood is used?

I like pine. Soft, light, works.


> What is a cow's knee?

A piece of leather or "?" formed to cover the lock area of your gun. Looks
like a cows knee split up the back side of the leg and cut off a few inches
above and below the knee. A large sized heavy wool sock with the toe cut out
works better, just slide it up over the butt and over the lock area until
your ready to shoot. Pull it down a ways just past the wrist and fire away.
Keeps out rain and snow and doesn't have to be untied nor is it easily lost.

> Last question What is tow and where can a person get it?

Unspun flax fibers. Very long and strong. Used to make a ball/wad to screw
onto a tow worm which has been twisted onto the wooden end of a ram rod or
wiping stick. Do a web seach for flax and linen products. Check out the
Suttlers list on the home page. May be washed and reused. Throw into a cloth
bag securely tied shut and into the wash. Don't tell the missus whats in the
bag. <G>

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'



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Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 17:32:24 -0400
From: tom roberts <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mole

The product you reference is called "Ibarra", it's
made in Guadalajara, contains sugar, cocoa paste, and
"lecitina y sabor canela", and it's rather gritty.
It's hard as stone and keeps pretty much forever unless
the bugs get it first.

Tom

Chris Sega wrote:
>
> Mole is a combination of ground chile spices and sweet
> ingredients, there could be chocolate in it as it
> varies from recipie to recipie.  It is not a drink
> however, as I have only seen it used as a sauce or
> marinade for meat.  You can get a kind of chocolate
> that is much like what was drunk in the spanish
> colonies of the era.  It comes in 4" round disks, and
> is composed of coacoa (sp) granulated sugar and
> cinnamon.  Comes in a little  octagonal paper box that
> is red and yellow and the only brandname I can
> remember is Abuelas or something like that.  Check
> your local mexican market.  It's not at all like swiss
> miss.  I grew up in Taos NM and don't ever recall
> drinking it there, it is apparently popular in Mexico.
>
> Sega
>
> Sega
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
> http://auctions.yahoo.com/
>
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Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 18:19:04 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tents

- --part1_4b.a884c3e.281755d8_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 4/22/01 7:38:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:


> They still would not let me
> bring my striped pavilion into site, made me put it in modern tenting.  Same
> thing that year with the guy who had a period brown canvas tent.. .......
>
>

Strips, painted teepees, brown/natural canvas or hemp cloth all ok at all of
the Easterns I have been at.  All are documented and accepted.  They even let
in one polers, bakers and several questionable tents as not all do the
research before they buy and or commit to purchase.  Eventually those that
care learn and change.  Those that don't have fewer events that they can
attend.  But if they enjoy their hobby am I the one to judge?  Not me, I have
never met a person who can not teach me something worthy of knowing.

Y.M.O.S.

C.T. Oakes

- --part1_4b.a884c3e.281755d8_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 4/22/01 7:38:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
<BR>[e-mail] writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">They still would not let me
<BR>bring my striped pavilion into site, made me put it in modern tenting.  Same
<BR>thing that year with the guy who had a period brown canvas tent.. .......
<BR>
<BR>I am planing on the Eastern Primitive at the end of September though. </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>
<BR>Strips, painted teepees, brown/natural canvas or hemp cloth all ok at all of
<BR>the Easterns I have been at.  All are documented and accepted.  They even let
<BR>in one polers, bakers and several questionable tents as not all do the
<BR>research before they buy and or commit to purchase.  Eventually those that
<BR>care learn and change.  Those that don't have fewer events that they can
<BR>attend.  But if they enjoy their hobby am I the one to judge?  Not me, I have
<BR>never met a person who can not teach me something worthy of knowing.
<BR>
<BR>Y.M.O.S.
<BR>
<BR>C.T. Oakes</FONT></HTML>

- --part1_4b.a884c3e.281755d8_boundary--

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Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 16:43:59 -0400
From: "Possum Hunter" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Questions on accoutrements

Les Chaffin wrote:
> What kinds of accoutrements are carried in or on a shooting pouch?

I grabbed mine and my Hawken bag has a Thompson / Center powder measure, A
combination nipple pick/wrench, A capper, A tin of caps, A tin containing a
patch worm and a ball puller (but *I* never dry-ball mine! <VBG>), A small
bottle of moose milk, A tube of Bore Butter, A ball pouch, A ball starter,
and pillow ticking
My smooth bore bag has a home made vent pick, 2 spare flints,  A cow horn
powder measure, A tin containing a tow worm, a ball puller, and a cleaning
jag, a bottle of moose milk, a tin of bore butter, a ball pouch, and pillow
ticking.
>
> One of the things that I want to do is make a loading block.  How is a
block made, what kind of wood is used?

I made one out of oak. I just drilled 1/2" holes in it (for my .50 cal
Hawken) used it for one shoot and figured it to be more trouble than it was
worth. I will look and see if I still have it. If I do I would be glad to
mail it to you.
>
> What is a cow's knee?

Same as a human knee but on a cow instead. <VBG>
>
> Last question What is tow and where can a person get it?

Tow is the stringy fiber left over from making linen cloth from flax. It
makes a dandy bore scrubber and then when you are done cleaning your gun,
makes the best fire starting tinder known to man. Tow can be purchased from
The K Company, 128 B Lebby Street, Pelzer SC 29669 phone [phone] or
1-864-947-2788

Possum


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------------------------------

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