ftp.xmission.com/2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar/ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/hist_text/archive/v01.n783

Internet Message Format | 2001-04-13 | 37KB

From: [e-mail] (hist_text-digest)
To: [e-mail]
Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #783
Reply-To: hist_text
Sender: [e-mail]
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: bulk


hist_text-digest       Saturday, April 14 2001       Volume 01 : Number 783



In this issue:

-áááááá MtMan-List: linen thread
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Parched Corn
-áááááá MtMan-List: Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 22:18:32 -0500
-áááááá MtMan-List: Wants to buy a tent - OT
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: arrow moccasins.
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Parched Corn
-áááááá MtMan-List: arrow moc`s
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: arrow moccasins.
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Parched Corn use in RMFT
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: arrow moccasins.
-áááááá MtMan-List: Re: Fur traders in Indian dress & mosquitoes
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant
-áááááá MtMan-List: Laura Glise update
-áááááá Fw: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant
-áááááá RE: Fw: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant
-áááááá MtMan-List: Magazines for sale or trade

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 18:35:32 -0500
From: "Frank Fusco" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: linen thread

Take a look at:  http://www.btoucan.com/default.asp
they have linen, hemp and other natural threads and cords at reasonable
prices.
Frank G. Fusco
Mountain Home, Arkansas
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/ozarksmuzzleloaders



- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 20:48:18 -0500
From: Victoria Pate <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Parched Corn

On Thu, 12 Apr 2001 15:51:21 -0700 "Roger Lahti" <[e-mail]>
writes:
>
> >             Capt.,
> >             You could have just skipped breakfast altogether
> >             instead of taking time to fry your bacon. But at least
> >             you ate bacon and not puppy!!! <G>
>
> Ms. Victoria,
>
> Ran plumb out of puppy Sat. night. Had to eat bacon.
>
> Capt. Lahti'

            If you had been with us Texians this past weekend,
            you would have had plenty of puppies to chose from.
            Exceptin', of course,  Larry and Winona's precious
            new fur child, Kate. <G>  There was a sturdy Great
            Dane puppy that might have been to your likin'.......<G>

            Victoria

> ----------------------
> hist_text list info:
> http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 21:16:55 -0600
From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 22:18:32 -0500

It is 11pm North Carolina time and we have had no news from Laura
Glise.....her surgery was postponed until this afternoon.  I will post any
news as soon as it is received.

Lanney Ratcliff

> Duke University Hospital
> Erwin Road
> Durham, NC  27710
> 919 684 8111
> Patient Condition Information
> 919 684 2410


- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 23:29:20 -0400
From: "Addison Miller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Wants to buy a tent - OT

I have a friend who sold his wall tent (too hard to put up by himself) and
now wants to buy a Pyramid Tent. He wants at least 12x12... Anyone out there
got one in good condition for sale?  Contact me off list at
[e-mail] and I'll pass the word to him.

Thanks,

Ad Miller
Alderson, WV


- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 20:09:58 -0700
From: "Larry Huber" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: arrow moccasins.

John,
    I have always used a pair of plains side seamed moccasins for summer
usage and oversized pucker toes with blanket liners as my snow mocs.  I
usually bring both on outings as backup.  My summer mocs have died.  Last
years' AMM National Rendezvous in Idaho killed 'em after many years'
service.  I have not had to opportunity to replace them yet.
    I just returned from five days at the Hart Canyon Rendezvous in the
Tehachapi mountains north of me.  The forecast was for rain and snow in the
higher elevations.  With my side seams out of service, this outing left me
without a backup.  Years ago I purchased a pair of Arrow Moccasins that
replicate the "Souliers de boeuf" depicted in the "Voyager's Sketchbook" by
James A. Hanson.  I never wore them because my impression changed from
Voyager to Western Mountain Man when I made the West my permanent home.
This footwear was designed for wet weather and cold weather both of which
are in short supply in California...usually.  At the last minute I threw
them into the truck as I left for rendezvous.  It rained, sleeted, hailed
and snowed every day I was at rendezvous.  I wore those voyager boots every
day except for a brief spell of sunshine when I put on the pucker toes.
They were great at keeping my feet dry and probably as good as the pucker
toes at keeping them warm.  I am glad I had them.  Hart Canyon is the
strictest of the non-AMM events in my area and both Dyers and Arrow mocs are
acceptable.  For those with foot problems or a need for a higher degree of
comfort than most historical footwear delivers I would suggest you give this
product a try.  They worked for me.
    Now, in hopes of starting a bit of emotional chatter, let me put their
use into perspective.  Would I wear them again?  In similar
circumstances...yes.  If snow is the issue in this year's deer hunting
season, I'll probably bring them along as backup to my pucker toes but not
as the primary footwear.  Do they fit my impression as a Rocky Mountain fur
trader out of St. Louis?  No.  Would I wear them to an AMM function?  No.  I
do not need to wear them for health reasons and I will not wear them for
comfort reasons.  They ain't right for me.  This footwear was Company issue
to voyagers working for the Canadian trade.  I doubt (though I will bow to
documentation to the contrary), that anyone leaving St. Louis in the
American trade ever wore these creations.  If they weren't wearing moccasins
they were wearing American boots of some sort.  The cowhide moccasins used
by voyagers who carried 150 lbs or more of goods on their backs between
waterways would have no purpose to the horseback transport system of the
mountain trade.
    Are you a pursuing a voyager impression?  The "Souliers de Boeuf" are an
option for you.  Do you need better support for your feet due to age or poor
health?  Then this type of footwear might be an acceptable alternative to
modern designs.  I find them as noisy in the woods as modern boots and their
traction is worse than boots on wet grass.  I prefer the common footwear of
the common trapper, i.e. moccasins made in a Indian style from the animals
of the land he hunted and trapped on.

Larry Huber
AMM 1517
Oak Ridge Party
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hunt" <[e-mail]>
To: "discussion" <[e-mail]>; "AMM discussion"
<[e-mail]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 6:03 AM
Subject: MtMan-List: arrow moccasins.


> I would like to get some opinions on the arrow moccasins. I heard they are
> more accepted at events as compared to dyers. I was told they were sewn
with
> linen as compared to artificial in the dyers.
>
> I got bad feet and the home made ones are taking their toll on me.
>
> Opinion on arrows being accepted at juried events. I know what juried
means.
> Some juried events accept items commercially made if unable to make them
> yourself. By commercial, vendor who makes items for our interests.
>
> Was told the AMM might accept them. Just rumor.
>
> John (BIG JOHN) Hunt
> longhunter
> mountainman
> Southwest, Ohio
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>

- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 20:50:43 -0700
From: "Roger Lahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Parched Corn

There was a sturdy Great
>             Dane puppy that might have been to your likin'.......<G>
>
>             Victoria

Ms. Victoria,

My wife is Dane and the only Dane I care to nibble on.

Capt. Lahti'





- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 09:21:04 -0400
From: "John Hunt" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: arrow moc`s

Larry

Thanks for info on arrow moc`s. The ones I`m considering are the low cut
that tie in front. I`ve been using center seems that I make from beef belly
leather. I want more comfort and want a thicker sole. Due to being old, fat,
bald headed, and tender feet , I want more comfort. A bone spurs condition
in my lower back is causing me to walk a little off center and a limp is
starting. Custom made inserts in my street shoes help in the everyday rat
race. I`ll be able to use in a quality pair of moc`s. My homemade
centerseems ruin them. A bit pricy to replace.

The solier de bouf are on down the road for winter wear.

 I don`t want any exceptions for myself. I want to try to get closer to a
more correct acceptability. Some places are kicking on the dyers I`ve heard.
(hearsay).

Again thanks

John (BIG JOHN) Hunt
longhunter
mountainman
Southwest, Ohio


- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 07:58:29 -0600
From: "Clay J. Landry" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: arrow moccasins.

In my study of the trade ledgers and records of the American Fur Company
1825-1840, and the Astorian enterprise of 1810 to 1812, it became very
apparent that engages received a standard clothing issue from the company.
In the Astorian records they even refer to these various classes such as
"boatman's equipments" or "hunters equipments". Another term  often seen for
the engages or voyageurs is "boatman's Agris" .
One of the items that keeps showing up on the items issued to the voyageurs
are "ox-hide shoes". My friend
Allen Chronister is convinced that these "oxhide shoes are the  "Souliers
de Boeuf " or voyageur's moccasin- as much as I think that  his assumption
makes sense we have yet to find anything that explains the materials or
construction of oxhide shoes -so we really do not know what the heck it
they really are.
In the case of the Astorians you might want to remember that these men
traversed the Rocky mountains from St. Louis to the mouth of the Columbia
River in 1810-so whatever "ox-hide shoes" were the men that wore them left
an imprint along the rivers and mountains of the beaver country-some 13
years before Ashley!
Clay Landry
Moorhead MT
- ----- Original Message -----
From: John Hunt <[e-mail]>
To: discussion <[e-mail]>; AMM discussion
<[e-mail]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 7:03 AM
Subject: MtMan-List: arrow moccasins.


> I would like to get some opinions on the arrow moccasins. I heard they are
> more accepted at events as compared to dyers. I was told they were sewn
with
> linen as compared to artificial in the dyers.
>
> I got bad feet and the home made ones are taking their toll on me.
>
> Opinion on arrows being accepted at juried events. I know what juried
means.
> Some juried events accept items commercially made if unable to make them
> yourself. By commercial, vendor who makes items for our interests.
>
> Was told the AMM might accept them. Just rumor.
>
> John (BIG JOHN) Hunt
> longhunter
> mountainman
> Southwest, Ohio
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>



- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 07:59:48 -0600
From: "Clay J. Landry" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Parched Corn use in RMFT

Not to sound like one of the "old Grumps" on the list-we have had this
discussion before so it should be in the achieves- therefore I am not going
to take the time to quote "page and verse".

There is a letter dated Aug 1 1835, in the American Fur Company papers from
Lucien Fontenelle to Andrew Drips-his partner-Fontenelle was at the time
located at Fort Laramie and Drips was a the Green River Rendezvous. In this
letter Fontenelle says that he was sending Dripps-by way of Preacher John
Gray-"some beans, corn meal and pumpkins"-While this is not "parched corn"
it does show that corn meal was at the 1835 Rendezvous.

If you read John Kirk Townsend-he came west with Nat Wyeth in 1834, they
were headed to the rendezvous-he writes about trading for corn from the Kaw
or Kansas Indians.

Corn is also on several of the invoices of items going to Fort Union and
many of the AMFC trapping brigades of 1830 to 1838 were supplied at Fort
Union.

As Mike Moore pointed out-corn is all over the records of the southwest fur
trade.

As the good Capt pointed out corn, parched meal and parched corn are in the
Astorian records-both coming and going across the mountains.

The records of Fort Hall 1834-1836 also include a reference to corn-also
potatoes!

This does not quite address the "parched corn" question-but corn was used in
the mountains and they knew how to parch it.

Oh yes in that letter I mentioned above-Fontenelle also mention that he is
sending a bundle of clothes to rendezvous for Bridger that included "fine
coat, cap and pantaloons"-he does not say if they were buckskin or cloth,
but were certainly not made by ole Gabe himself nor his Indian wife.
Clay Landry
Moorhead MT
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Sega <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 3:46 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Parched Corn use in RMFT


> Common use is all I am talking about.  In my original
> post I said, wouldnt it most probably be used closer
> to settlements.  Astoria being one, you have verified
> that when white settlement was close corn could be had
> and undoubtably it was traded for. But is Parched more
> common than ground corn?  As I said, Sir william
> Drummond Stewart brought canned fish, preserves, and
> armor to the west, but It was not common.  .  None of
> the lists of goods brought to Rendezvous list corn,The
> trade register of Mdse brought to the upper missouri
> by S.B. Diana lists flour, crackers, molasses, hot
> sauce, lime juice, mustard etc etc, but it mentions no
> corn.  Well that doesent mean it wasn't there, because
> the Mandans grew it and it was grown in New Mexico. In
> my original post I asked " wouldn't it be more common
> near the settlements?"  Well it turns out that that is
> the truth.  It was not however common in the heart of
> the Rocky Mountains.  Wouldn't the Traders have
> brought it to the Rendezvous?  The Sources you mention
> are the only ones that I have seen which mention
> Parched corn. Perhaps I am obstinate, and I agree
> Parched corn was eaten, but I feel that corn was not
> commonly carried by trappers out in the mountains, but
> was common in settled areas.
>
> Isn't this Fun?
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>



- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 08:59:10 -0700
From: "Larry Huber" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: arrow moccasins.

Thanks, Clay, for this information.  I agree with you and Allen on this.  I
knew that boatmen (voyagers) were issued clothing in the HB and NWC service
but wasn't aware of their arrangement in American trade.

Larry Huber
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Clay J. Landry" <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 6:58 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: arrow moccasins.


> In my study of the trade ledgers and records of the American Fur Company
> 1825-1840, and the Astorian enterprise of 1810 to 1812, it became very
> apparent that engages received a standard clothing issue from the company.
> In the Astorian records they even refer to these various classes such as
> "boatman's equipments" or "hunters equipments". Another term  often seen
for
> the engages or voyageurs is "boatman's Agris" .
> One of the items that keeps showing up on the items issued to the
voyageurs
> are "ox-hide shoes". My friend
> Allen Chronister is convinced that these "oxhide shoes are the  "Souliers
> de Boeuf " or voyageur's moccasin- as much as I think that  his assumption
> makes sense we have yet to find anything that explains the materials or
> construction of oxhide shoes -so we really do not know what the heck it
> they really are.
> In the case of the Astorians you might want to remember that these men
> traversed the Rocky mountains from St. Louis to the mouth of the Columbia
> River in 1810-so whatever "ox-hide shoes" were the men that wore them left
> an imprint along the rivers and mountains of the beaver country-some 13
> years before Ashley!
> Clay Landry
> Moorhead MT
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John Hunt <[e-mail]>
> To: discussion <[e-mail]>; AMM discussion
> <[e-mail]>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 7:03 AM
> Subject: MtMan-List: arrow moccasins.
>
>
> > I would like to get some opinions on the arrow moccasins. I heard they
are
> > more accepted at events as compared to dyers. I was told they were sewn
> with
> > linen as compared to artificial in the dyers.
> >
> > I got bad feet and the home made ones are taking their toll on me.
> >
> > Opinion on arrows being accepted at juried events. I know what juried
> means.
> > Some juried events accept items commercially made if unable to make them
> > yourself. By commercial, vendor who makes items for our interests.
> >
> > Was told the AMM might accept them. Just rumor.
> >
> > John (BIG JOHN) Hunt
> > longhunter
> > mountainman
> > Southwest, Ohio
> >
> >
> > ----------------------
> > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >
>
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>

- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 16:14:15 -0600
From: Angela Gottfred <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Fur traders in Indian dress & mosquitoes

"ALAN AVERY" <[e-mail]> wrote:

>Having canoed along a number of western Canadian voyageur routes, I cannot
>conceive of anyone, (anyone sane anyway!) "stripping
>down to just a breech clout" as it would be my belief that the indigenous
>carnivorous insect population, (mosquitos, black flies, deer flies, etc)
>would very quickly drain enough of one's blood to leave you looking like a
>raisin! ...> For my part, I suspect that
>the voyageurs/fur trappers just "grinned and beared it"), as it is evident
>that these were pretty tough guys all around. It was just one more thing for
>them to put up with.

Well, it all depends. Not everywhere in this country is mosquito-infested
all the time, and it's said  that if you're exposed for a long time, you
build up an immunity. (No, me neither. ;-) ) Nevertheless, there are *tons*
of references in Canadian fur traders' journals about the experience of
being attacked by these miniature vampires. Here's one, just for fun:

"...we incurred a personal evil of much greater magnitude in the torments
inflicted by the mosquitoes; a plague which infested us during the whole
summer. We found no relief from their attacks by exposing our selves to the
utmost violence of the wind and rain. Our last resource was to plunge
ourselves into the water, and from this uncomfortable situation we gladly
escaped at daylight, and hoisted our sails." 1820. (Hood, 107)

Your humble & obedient servant,
Angela Gottfred


- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 16:03:11 -0600
From: Angela Gottfred <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant

"Possum Hunter" <[e-mail]> wrote:
>  Does this mean you disagree with the teasing "Fork Tongue" Pablo got when
>he nearly cut his tongue off while eating peas with his new knife? I am sure
>he will be hearing about that little accident for years!

I think that, if we wanted to avoid discouraging newcomers to this hobby,
we might re-examine the whole issue of "camp names". I believe we've found
very little historic evidence for them, and tagging people this way is
bound to turn some people off. I guess it depends on just how badly you
want those new folks around the campfire to hang around. It's also true
that folks who *don't* want a "camp name" seem to be able to dodge them
fairly well.

Your humble & obedient servant,
Angela Gottfred







- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 19:08:26 -0400
From: "D. Miles" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant

Yeah, lets be like the rest of the world and worry about bruising someone's
ego a little, or God forbid, a camp name or a little ribbing might damage
ones "self esteem" Gimmee a damned break, if you are that friggin thin
skinned, join a sewing circle, but beware, them old wimmin have sharp
tongues!!! Most of the people in this hobby are the salt of the earth, and a
damned fair amount of them will tell you what they think in a New York
minute, so if you can't take the heat, well, stay the hell outta the
kitchen.
D



- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 19:50:04 -0500
From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant

Angela wrote:
I think that, if we wanted to avoid discouraging newcomers to this hobby,
we might re-examine the whole issue of "camp names". I believe we've found
very little historic evidence for them, ..........

Ho the List
Exactly, at least insofar as many of the silly-assed pseudo Indian names are
concerned, Broken Hand and a few others excepted.  Names like Judge or
Gabriel are sprinkled about but the literature almost always names people by
their names.  Last names generally.  I was "given"  a camp name (which I
don't particularly like) which I tend to ignore.  Maybe one day it will die.
Most of the camp names belong on the buckskinner club rendezvous
scene......like the 20 year old girl at a Texas rendezvous last weekend who
cheerfully told a tale in public about her husband getting so drunk that he
fell out of their tend and fell on his face, causing her to bestow the camp
name "sniffing sand" on the boy.  Gimme a break!!
My $.02
Lanney Ratcliff
ps:  No news today about Laura Glise except that she is still in ICU.  If I
hear anything, I will post it immediately.


- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 18:38:38 -0700
From: "Randal Bublitz" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant

- ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII


I agree. those nicknames are silly... hardtack






- --- Randal Bublitz

- --- [e-mail]

- ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8
Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=windows-1251">
<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV>I agree. those nicknames are silly... hardtack</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid"><FONT size=2>
<P></P></FONT>
<P></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>--- Randal Bublitz</DIV>
<DIV>--- <A href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML>
- ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8--


- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 22:39:35 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant

In a message dated 4/13/01 6:37:10 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< I agree. those nicknames are silly... hardtack >>

Ain't no stinkin names here!

Magpie

- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 23:39:45 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant

I agree too Hardtack. Those nicknames are silly. Just try and call me some
stupid Buckskinner name. First it's them other skinners callin ya that stupid
name, then it's your coworkers and your own parents next it's your kids and
all there friends and pretty soon the only time you will here your birth name
from your better half is when your in trouble. By this time you will start to
hate it every time you do here your birth name and you will begin to wonder
how you really are. So no sirree bob that ain't for me.
just my two cents
Crazy Cyot

- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 22:43:17 -0500
From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Laura Glise update

There is really not much of an update. We have heard nothing from Laura's
family, but those folks have plenty to do and will get around to calling
soon I'm sure.  The hospital patient information folks at Duke would say
only that she is in ICU.....which is to be expected.  I figure that no news
is good news, or at least NOT bad news.
I will post anything we hear asap.
Lanney Ratcliff


- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 22:55:54 -0500
From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fw: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant

Brother Roy......er, Crazy
Do we see your tongue firmly in your cheek?
I can't speak for Hardtack, etc, but names like "Blue Stone in Water" or
"Cherry Cobbler" are the ones that I'm glad that nobody tried to hang on me.
These are actual camp names of people I know.
Lanney

- ----- Original Message -----
From: <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 10:39 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant


> I agree too Hardtack. Those nicknames are silly. Just try and call me some
> stupid Buckskinner name. First it's them other skinners callin ya that
stupid
> name, then it's your coworkers and your own parents next it's your kids
and
> all there friends and pretty soon the only time you will here your birth
name
> from your better half is when your in trouble. By this time you will start
to
> hate it every time you do here your birth name and you will begin to
wonder
> how you really are. So no sirree bob that ain't for me.
> just my two cents
> Crazy Cyot
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 22:15:49 -0700
From: "Randal Bublitz" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Fw: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant

- ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII


Lanney, My tongue was planted firmly in my cheek during my response
 s ....    hardtack





Brother Roy......er, Crazy

Do we see your tongue firmly in your cheek?

I can't speak for Hardtack, etc,

- ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8
Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=windows-1251">
<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV>Lanney, My tongue was planted firmly in my cheek during my response <s>....    hardtack</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt Arial"> </DIV><FONT size=2>
<P>
<DIV>Brother Roy......er, Crazy</DIV>
<DIV>Do we see your tongue firmly in your cheek?</DIV>
<DIV>I can't speak for Hardtack, etc, </DIV></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
- ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8--


- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 09:46:23 -0700
From: "Roger Lahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant

>
> I think that, if we wanted to avoid discouraging newcomers to this hobby,
> we might re-examine the whole issue of "camp names".

Angela,

I always enjoy and respect your posts to the list, I learn so much.

I think there is more going on here than meets the eye. For the most part,
newcomers are not discouraged because they get a "camp name". Many feel they
are being ostrasized if they don't get a name. Many feel they haven't been
accepted if they don't get a "camp name" and I'm afraid that to a certain
extent this is more true than it should be. As much as we'd like to think
different, we are not that removed from the shool playground or the dirt
field down at the end of the alley. Just a bunch of grownup kids playing at
being Mountain Men.

Sure we take it serious, some take it more serious than others. But then
some take the good natured kidding they get from friends new and long
standing way too serious. By the same token, some of that kidding isn't as
friendly as our visual age and supposed maturity should make it. It can
still be a bit visious at times. Kinda like when we were in school. The
trick is to know who are friends and be able to hear what they are saying.

I believe we've found
> very little historic evidence for them, and tagging people this way is
> bound to turn some people off.

No, there is very little if any historical evidence to suggest that
nicknames were a popular item way back. It may vary well be a modern
phenomenon and something we tolerate or learn to live with or live around.
For the most part I see the bestowing of a nickname as a sign of acceptance
and affection and sometimes respect, amongst us men folk. Rarely do I see
it as derisive. One rare example would be the fella that camped near us for
a "primitive" event a couple years back. He would not pick up after himself
and generally left a mess when he broke camp. He was chrisened "Pig Pen".
Wasn't welcome next time either. When he cleans up his act, the name will be
dropped. Peer pressure.

I guess it depends on just how badly you
> want those new folks around the campfire to hang around. It's also true
> that folks who *don't* want a "camp name" seem to be able to dodge them
> fairly well.

If that is the case, then what's the problem? Dodge the name. Or pick
different camp mates or learn to live with it and enjoy. I won't go so far
as to use the language and terms that others have but I think folks can be
toooooo sensitive. I also believe in learning to play by the rules or learn
how to change the rules. I also believe it is a necessary life skill to know
how to be assertive. (in a nice way <G>) Like in "Thanks, but I'm not into
camp names and certainly not that one. If you want my company, please, no
camp name. If not, fine, I was looking for good friends when I walked in
here. I'll just keep looking."

And as always, I remain your friend and............

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'











tp://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 13:04:01 -0500
From: "Paul W. Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Magazines for sale or trade

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Lahti <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 11:46 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant


>
> >
> > I think that, if we wanted to avoid discouraging newcomers to this
hobby,
> > we might re-examine the whole issue of "camp names".
>
> Angela,
>
> I always enjoy and respect your posts to the list, I learn so much.
>
> I think there is more going on here than meets the eye. For the most part,
> newcomers are not discouraged because they get a "camp name". Many feel
they
> are being ostrasized if they don't get a name. Many feel they haven't been
> accepted if they don't get a "camp name" and I'm afraid that to a certain
> extent this is more true than it should be. As much as we'd like to think
> different, we are not that removed from the shool playground or the dirt
> field down at the end of the alley. Just a bunch of grownup kids playing
at
> being Mountain Men.
>
> Sure we take it serious, some take it more serious than others. But then
> some take the good natured kidding they get from friends new and long
> standing way too serious. By the same token, some of that kidding isn't as
> friendly as our visual age and supposed maturity should make it. It can
> still be a bit visious at times. Kinda like when we were in school. The
> trick is to know who are friends and be able to hear what they are saying.
>
> I believe we've found
> > very little historic evidence for them, and tagging people this way is
> > bound to turn some people off.
>
> No, there is very little if any historical evidence to suggest that
> nicknames were a popular item way back. It may vary well be a modern
> phenomenon and something we tolerate or learn to live with or live around.
> For the most part I see the bestowing of a nickname as a sign of
acceptance
> and affection and sometimes respect, amongst us men folk. Rarely do I see
> it as derisive. One rare example would be the fella that camped near us
for
> a "primitive" event a couple years back. He would not pick up after
himself
> and generally left a mess when he broke camp. He was chrisened "Pig Pen".
> Wasn't welcome next time either. When he cleans up his act, the name will
be
> dropped. Peer pressure.
>
> I guess it depends on just how badly you
> > want those new folks around the campfire to hang around. It's also true
> > that folks who *don't* want a "camp name" seem to be able to dodge them
> > fairly well.
>
> If that is the case, then what's the problem? Dodge the name. Or pick
> different camp mates or learn to live with it and enjoy. I won't go so far
> as to use the language and terms that others have but I think folks can be
> toooooo sensitive. I also believe in learning to play by the rules or
learn
> how to change the rules. I also believe it is a necessary life skill to
know
> how to be assertive. (in a nice way <G>) Like in "Thanks, but I'm not into
> camp names and certainly not that one. If you want my company, please, no
> camp name. If not, fine, I was looking for good friends when I walked in
> here. I'll just keep looking."
>
> And as always, I remain your friend and............
>
> YMOS
> Capt. Lahti'
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> tp://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

End of hist_text-digest V1 #783
*******************************

-
 To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to
"[e-mail]"
 with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.