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From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest)
To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #705
Reply-To: hist_text
Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
hist_text-digest Saturday, January 6 2001 Volume 01 : Number 705
In this issue:
-áááááá MtMan-List: Follow-up on Terry Johnston books
-áááááá MtMan-List: simple cleaning (Roberts citation)
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: shoes, boots
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Tow linen source
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: leather braiding
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: MtMan-Book
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: MtMan-Book
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Follow-up on Terry Johnston books
-áááááá MtMan-List: 69 ronde
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Tow linen source
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: 69 ronde
-áááááá MtMan-List: Leather Braiding
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Tow linen source
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: MtMan-Book, T. Johnston
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: shoes, boots
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: shoes, boots
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: MtMan-Book, T. Johnston
-áááááá MtMan-List: Re: Tow
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: MtMan-Book
-áááááá MtMan-List: shoes and boots
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: shoes, boots
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: MtMan-Book
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: shoes, boots
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: shoes, boots
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: shoes, boots
-áááááá MtMan-List: Thanks Teton!!!
-áááááá MtMan-List: Minimum to get started
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 21:52:06 EST
From: HikingOnThru@cs.com
Subject: MtMan-List: Follow-up on Terry Johnston books
Ho List,
A few months back we had a lively discussion on the writings of Terry
Johnston and it was mentioned that he was coming out with a final book (to
follow "Death Rattle") in the Titus Bass series. I was wondering if anyone
had heard anymore on this?
Also, for those of you who like an earlier F&I era as well, "Song of the
Mohicans" is a sequel to "Last of the Mohicans" written by a modern author
(with Hawkeye and Chingachgook being key characters of course). OK read to
fill the time till the next Johnston novel!!!
- -C.Kent
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 21:59:42 -0500 (EST)
From: JONDMARINETTI@webtv.net (Jon Marinetti)
Subject: MtMan-List: simple cleaning (Roberts citation)
Richard, Larry:
You're absolutely correct.
Loading, cleaning, and care of the [MLCL] rifle, Chapter 5, pp.179,180
(Ned Roberts' classic work).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
from Michigan
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 19:04:27 -0800
From: "Roger Lahti" <rtlahti@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: shoes, boots
In your experience
> do you find that a hair-in moc (buff for example)
> behaves similar to wool by insulating well even
> when wet or are you lining a regular moc with
> wool wrapping?
Tom,
I honestly can't speak for the buffalo linings. I make a large braintan
puckertoe w/vamp eastern winter style moc that will fit over a really good
wool sock and a double layered blanket wool bootee. I use the best wool
blanket I can. Invariably the bottom of my feet will feel damp after walking
around on "wet" snow or slush but with the outer moc greased up with bear
and bee's wax mix the whole moc doesn't get soaked. But I have one spare set
of all of that should a total soaking actually happen and of course I change
the liner and sock before going to bed. I wear the moc (if just damp) along
with the dry liners and socks and when I get up my feet are usually warm and
the moc is dry.
If you wanted to do it as described in original journals, then a wool wrap
rather than bootee would be the trick. Wool in whatever form seems to
actually block the passage of " liquid" moisture from getting to your feet
except on the very bottoms where it is of course "pounded" through. Damp
wool from perspiration or vapor usually doesn't feel all that wet and
doesn't lose much insulating value. While your up and moving damp soles just
don't seem to be much of a problem. How do you dry damp stuff out after you
go to bed and the fire dies down? Take it into your blankets with you. Most
of the moisture is gone from your efforts drying it by the fire. It will be
for all practical purposes dry by morning. Just my experiences with keeping
my feet dry and warm.
I've heard that Canadian Indians will dip their moccasin (mukluk) (sic) feet
into water real quick and then let the water on the outside freeze to water
proof there foot wear when they need to go into shallow water during really
cold times. And really cold temps don't cause wet feet much either. Just the
close to freezing temps we were talking about. Bout all I got to offer.
Capt. Lahti'
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 19:05:03 -0800
From: "Roger Lahti" <rtlahti@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tow linen source
Thanks Teton.
Capt. Lahti'
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 19:09:40 -0800
From: "Roger Lahti" <rtlahti@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: leather braiding
> I'll do my bay-est. <G>
Ms. Victoria,
You'all just plum give me shivers up my spine when you talk like that. <G>
I'll be await'in.
Capt. Lahti'
ps. I bet some of these guys that know will git sick of this shortly and
bail you out with the answer! <G>
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 19:15:04 -0800
From: "Roger Lahti" <rtlahti@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: MtMan-Book
> Do you, or anyone on the list, know the history
> of this company and who were the Americans involved
> in it?
Ms. Victoria,
Sorry but I sure don't know much about them. I'm sure someone around here
does though.
Capt. Lahti'
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 19:21:05 -0800
From: "Roger Lahti" <rtlahti@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: MtMan-Book
> Do you, or anyone on the list, know the history
> of this company and who were the Americans involved
> in it?
Ms. Victoria,
A Texas "mocking bird" told me to suggest you go to Google.com and enter a
search for "russian american fur company" and be sure to use the " marks.
Should find all you want to know.
And thanks little bird. <G> Make'in me look good tonight! <G>
Capt. Lahti'
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 20:41:25 -0700
From: Todd Glover <tetontodd@juno.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Follow-up on Terry Johnston books
"Wind Walker, A Final Ride with Titus Bass" available in hardback
February 2001 for $24.95.
Can't wait. As I said before, hope ole Titus doesn't go under.
"Teton" Todd D. Glover
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 20:41:42 -0700
From: "Terrance Luff" <havenotmetis@hotmail.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: 69 ronde
Walt'
i was at alot of the first rondies by big timber.on the boulder river and
around town. what is it you need. i hope your'r not going to ask alot of
questions. there has been a few miles and a few rondies sence, but maybe the
ole gray matter might dig some thing out.
ponyride
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 20:47:19 -0700
From: Todd Glover <tetontodd@juno.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tow linen source
Y'welcome Capt. Nice to be hunkerd down with something to do on a cold
January night. We have a bad case of "Ice Fog" here in the valley of the
Great Salt Lake. Heading up to Cache Valey in the morning with Ole to
visit with some boys in camp and do some more planning for next summers
National. It's going to be good one at a great site.
Good evening to you sir.....and Happy Trails
"Teton" Todd D. Glover
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 21:24:07 -0700
From: "Walt Foster" <Wfoster@cw2.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 69 ronde
> Walt'
> i was at alot of the first rondies by big timber.on the boulder river and
> around town. what is it you need. i hope your'r not going to ask alot of
> questions. there has been a few miles and a few rondies sence, but maybe
the
> ole gray matter might dig some thing out.
> ponyride
Hi ponyrider,
Hope this does not cause you a lot of brain pressure but I am more
interested than ever in putting together the genesis of the modern
rendezvous movement from the time of the first friendship rendezvous circa
54/55 with 5 tipi's and a dozen camp according to Don King who was there to
the present which includes the Big Timber rondy with more than 100 lodges at
the Pharriss Ranch during 69 in Montana. One other spoke up about being
there who is on the list. I inquired of Buck and John Kramer but have not
seen any post from them regarding this particular rendezvous.
The reason I ask is I am building on the 4th year of a gathering near the
mouth of the Clarks Fork of the Yellowstone River. It is a spot with some
special historical association with the mountain man and the Lewis and Clark
Era. I would like some advice from some other old hands who were there on
how to draw out some of the old hardy ones during the year 2003-2006.
What I need is some ideas of the camp conversations that were running around
that camp back then. I want to understand better the thread from
friendship.
I would like you to help me out.
Walt
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 21:36:43 -0700
From: "Wynn & Gretchen Ormond" <leona3@favorites.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: Leather Braiding
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0775F.98DD1CC0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The Capt. told Ghostrider:
I like Wynn's idea of using a 4 strand braid with a nice wall and crown =
finish.
Should be plenty of old sailors around Coos Bay that could help if =
needed.
Well Ghostrider if you need any help at all you just let me know. I aint =
an ol sailor but if you want to pay fer the trip I will be happy to lay =
eyes on the South/Central Oregon Coast agian! We honeymooned from =
Brookings to Newport. While at a bed and breakfast on the beach in =
Brookings I felt like Old Jed and his little brigade were making camp =
just down the sand from me. Funny, I live in the heart of the Rockies, =
yet on that stretch of the coast I felt the spirits of those men. Maybe =
the sea was just messing with this land lubbers mind.
WY=20
- ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0775F.98DD1CC0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>
<P>The Capt. told Ghostrider:</P>
<P>I like Wynn's idea of using a 4 strand braid with a nice wall and =
crown=20
finish.</P>
<P>Should be plenty of old sailors around Coos Bay that could help if=20
needed.</P>
<P>Well Ghostrider if you need any help at all you just let me know. I =
aint an=20
ol sailor but if you want to pay fer the trip I will be happy to lay =
eyes on the=20
South/Central Oregon Coast agian! We honeymooned from Brookings to =
Newport.=20
While at a bed and breakfast on the beach in Brookings I felt like Old =
Jed and=20
his little brigade were making camp just down the sand from me. Funny, I =
live in=20
the heart of the Rockies, yet on that stretch of the coast I felt the =
spirits of=20
those men. Maybe the sea was just messing with this land lubbers =
mind.</P>
<P>WY </P></DIV></BODY></HTML>
- ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0775F.98DD1CC0--
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 20:38:24 -0800
From: "Roger Lahti" <rtlahti@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tow linen source
Yup, it's gona be a busy summer. We still aren't sure of our plans but the
wife definitely wants to make it up to the Rocky Mt. Nat. in Polebridge.
Hope that leaves me time to make it down to your doing's this summer.
Later,
Capt. L
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Todd Glover" <tetontodd@juno.com>
To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Friday, January 05, 2001 7:47 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tow linen source
> Y'welcome Capt. Nice to be hunkerd down with something to do on a cold
> January night. We have a bad case of "Ice Fog" here in the valley of the
> Great Salt Lake. Heading up to Cache Valey in the morning with Ole to
> visit with some boys in camp and do some more planning for next summers
> National. It's going to be good one at a great site.
>
> Good evening to you sir.....and Happy Trails
>
> "Teton" Todd D. Glover
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 22:37:27 -0600
From: Victoria Pate <vapate@juno.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: MtMan-Book, T. Johnston
> Ms. Victoria,
>
> A Texas "mocking bird" told me to suggest you go to Google.com and
> enter a
> search for "russian american fur company" and be sure to use the "
> marks.
> Should find all you want to know.
> And thanks little bird. <G> Make'in me look good tonight! <G>
>
> Capt. Lahti'
I have a sneakin' suspicion that this "little bird"
is in fact a very BIG bird. <G> I have a picture, taken
raht here in Texas, of a big bird and me, a little bird,
at R last October. We look like Mutt and Jeff. <G>
Re: Titus Bass
I'm half-way through the first novel. This child is
learning more about men and their manly habits
than she cares to know. <G> I don't doubt Johnston's
earthy veracity. <G>
Victoria
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 22:07:05 -0700
From: Allen Hall <allenhall@srv.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: shoes, boots
At 08:04 AM 01/05/2001 -0600, you wrote:
> Depending on the type of event some participants simply may not have the
>proper footwear. And many people are able to attend only one or two
>primitive events a year, others less. Good period footwear is expensive and
>putting shoes on baby at home takes a priority.
Side seam moccasins are both easy to make and depending upon the cost of
leather, pretty cheap. I have about a 9 1/2 size foot, and my summer
moccasin pattern takes 1 square foot of leather.
> And finding appropriate footwear for all bad weather conditions is very
>difficult. One member of this list recently boasted about some very nice
>cold weather mocs he had just received or made. That is great. But in some
>climates even heavy fur mocs or pacs simply will not do the job. Our
>friends fur mocs may be great in dry, frozen and zero degree weather. But
>come to Arkansas in early spring and the first step into a semi-frozen mud
>and slush puddle in thirty degree weather will give him wet and very cold
>feet. A dangerous and uncomfortable situation.
> In a case like that modern water resistant boots, hidden best the wearer
>can do are the only wise alternative.
>Frank G. Fusco
>Mountain Home, Arkansas
>
Moccasins with wool liners will answer this need as well. Trapping is wet
work in any time of the year. Spring and fall get slushy and wet in the
Rockies, just like Arkansas. Give wool liners and moccasins a try. It's
period, the wool is warm when it's wet, and you can pull the liners out so
the mocs and liners will dry. Just have another dry pair available.
My winter mocs are about 5 years old now, cost about $10 to make and still
work just great.
YMOS,
Allen
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
>
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 21:23:14 -0800
From: "Roger Lahti" <rtlahti@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: shoes, boots
> I am glad to hear that someone understands that people (especially those
of
> us "just starting out" in life) don't have the resources to get ALL our pc
> 'vous gear at once.
C.Kent,
But do you understand that there are rendezvous for such people who do not
have all their gear and there are rendezvous for people who do? I get the
feeling that you have missed that point. There are many clubs and groups who
will open their event to anyone who shoots black powder. No HC gear is
required. But you do have to shoot black powder. If you can't do that then
you don't get to shoot because they will not let you shoot your cartridge
guns. Period. You don't even have to "dress up" just show up.
Then there are clubs and groups who will ask that if you want to
participate, you first must make some efforts to come up with HC gear along
with your muzzle loader. They may or may not be real strict on the
authenticity of your persona or clothing as long as you wear pretty much the
minimum which usually calls for acceptable style of shirt, pants (or
equivalent), and foot wear even though these items are not really
Historically correct except in spirit. Even if you camp in a motor home and
walk into camp or let you camp in the "primitive" area if you camp in some
kind of white or brown tentage that vaguely resembles original tents and
lodges will be acceptable. If you can't make that minimal effort then you
are not welcome. Period. When you do, you are.
Then there are groups who will require that what you bring in, including
your cloths, camp gear and guns or other weapons fit a certain time period.
If you can't make that effort then your not welcome though when you do you
are welcome. But they do not keep you out if you have a medical problem that
requires special shoes, hell even a wheel chair, etc. if you make a
concerted effort to camouflage these medical needs with correct leather or
other natural means that blend in with what all are trying to create.
Does this means that those people should not attend or
> be excluded from the camp fun?
All these various types of events are not public. No one has a right to
attend if they will not follow or abide by the rules set down by these
private groups. There is an event for every level of commitment and
involvement. If you can't, won't or haven't "gone the distance" in gearing
up, there will be events you can not attend and have no God Given Right to
attend until you do.
Let me say it one more time. If you have accumulated all the gear you need
but have a need for modern foot support, there are many ways such support
can be added to authentically styled mocs and authentically styled shoes and
boots and even modern shoes are ok if you cover them up with the correct
leather for that venue.
I hope not!! And also that one must think of
> one's long-term health (does not do one any good to get oneself in such a
> condition that they cannot enjoy the outdoors anymore!!!
One of the things that hold many people back from really getting into some
of the most intense and interesting submersions into "Buckskinning" is their
fear of being uncomfortable and their unwillingness to figure out how to
"smooth" it so they aren't uncomfortable. You do not need all the modern
camp gear and cloths you will find in a Cabela's or Campmore Catalogue to
camp comfortably in any conditions. Folks, your ancestors in fact, have been
doing it for millennium and quit well. You just have to relearn what has
been lost
.
>
> If one were going to wear modern footwear for one reason or another...what
> would be a good way of making it "blend" better? (solid colors? Buff tan
> boots?) Thanks for your input.
First tell us what kind of event you want to "fit" into. Then I'd be happy
to tell you what it will take at a minimum. But quit assuming that because
you don't have brain tan mocs or a period correct shelter or the same style
cloths worn 175 years ago you can't go to a rendezvous. Just not all of
them.
Capt. Lahti'
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 21:25:05 -0800
From: "Roger Lahti" <rtlahti@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: MtMan-Book, T. Johnston
> I have a sneakin' suspicion that this "little bird"
> is in fact a very BIG bird. <G> I have a picture, taken
> raht here in Texas, of a big bird and me, a little bird,
> at R last October. We look like Mutt and Jeff. <G>
My lips are sealed!
Capt. Lahti'
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 00:24:24 -0500 (EST)
From: SpiritoftheWood@webtv.net
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Tow
Jas. Townsend and Son Inc. have Tow,try them at www.jastown.com
M.A Smith
"In Wildness Is the Preservation of the World" Thoreau
http://community.webtv.net/SpiritoftheWood/THEBUCKSKINNERSCABIN
- ----------------------
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 23:15:50 -0700
From: "John L. Allen" <jlallen@wyoming.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: MtMan-Book
Victoria,
The Russian-American Fur Co. was chartered in Moscow by the tsarist
government in 1799. This was a joint-stock company modeled after the HBC and
the British East India Company and it was designed primarily to administer
the Russian-claimed territory in North America (primarily the Aleutians and
Alaskan coast but extending down the coast as far as Fort Ross, CA) in much
the same way as the Hudson's Bay Company administered Rupert's Land in
Canada (the drainage basin of Hudson's Bay) and the British East India
Company administered India (until 1857). At the same time, the RAC was
intended to develop the fur trade of western coastal North America. I don't
know of any Americans (of European origin) involved in the RAC. The
principals of the company, including virtually all the traders, were Russian
"promyshlenniks" (a Russian word that meant "independent businessman" but
came to describe the Russian fur traders in Siberia and America). Nearly all
the laborers who worked for the RAC were Aleuts or Aleut-Russian mixed
bloods.
The primary authority on the Russian fur trade is James Gibson, Professor of
Geography at York University (Canada). You may want to consult his book
IMPERIAL RUSSIA IN FRONTIER AMERICA: THE CHANGING GEOGRAPHY OF SUPPLY OF
RUSSIAN AMERICA, 1784-1867 (New York: Oxford University Press, 1976).
Hope this helps.
John Allen
Professor and Chair of Geography
University of Wyoming
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Victoria Pate" <vapate@juno.com>
To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Friday, January 05, 2001 7:36 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: MtMan-Book
>
> Capt. Lahti',
>
> Beins you're so popular tonight and are such an
> unending source of data and wisdom <G>,
> perhaps you can answer a query I have.
>
> I'm reading " This Reckless Breed of Men-The
> Trappers and Fur Traders of the Southwest" by
> Robert Glass Cleland. On page 240, there is a
> mention of the Russian-American Fur Company.
>
>
> Do you, or anyone on the list, know the history
> of this company and who were the Americans involved
> in it?
>
> Thanks,
> Victoria
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
- ----------------------
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 08:46:55 -0600
From: "Frank Fusco" <frankf@centurytel.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: shoes and boots
C. Kent asked,
<If one were going to wear modern footwear for one reason or
another...what
would be a good way of making it "blend" better? (solid colors? Buff tan
boots?)>
C. There is no one or simple answer to your question. There are
different events with different standards. Just do your best and enjoy. If
you encounter someone who is so judgmental that they are making your feel
inadequate, just walk away from him. But be sure you understand the rules
before showing up, a few events do have a sorta 'zero tolerance' for what
they perceive as 'authentic'.
Frank G. Fusco
Mountain Home, Arkansas
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
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Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 11:51:44 EST
From: LivingInThePast@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: shoes, boots
In a message dated 1/5/01 9:22:25 PM Pacific Standard Time,
rtlahti@email.msn.com writes:
<< But quit assuming that because you don't have brain tan mocs or a period
correct shelter or the same style cloths worn 175 years ago you can't go to a
rendezvous. Just not all of them. >>
C. Kent, Thats a point well made by the Cap't. I belong to two clubs that
put on annual Rendezvous' here in So Cal. The Laguna Mountain event keeps
the 'pilgrim' in mind, allowing them to see what's happening and start to
work on their 'kit'. Things that are not HC are allowed as long as the spirit
of the participant is in the right place and they are endeavoring to learn
and obtain what they need.
On the other hand, the Manzanita Club's event is much stricter, requires
correct representation by the participants at all times, and has days when
even the public is not allowed.
Both events usually have AMM Brothers in attendance, usually set up in an
area away from the main, and yes, on-site, these are the guys to talk to
about what is HC. My personal experience has been that if you ask, instead
of copping an attitude of knowing, they will be happy to share the benefit of
their vast knowledge and experience with you. Barney
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Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 12:21:39 -0500
From: Jim Lockmiller <manbear@netonecom.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: MtMan-Book
Victoria,
The following links have some history of the Russian - American Co.
Manbear
http://www.vologda.ru/~avo/Eng/Events/FortRoss.htm
http://www.softadventure.net/cal-russian.htm
http://www.anyflag.com/history/russamer.htm
> > Do you, or anyone on the list, know the history
> > of this company and who were the Americans involved
> > in it?
>
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Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 20:55:58 EST
From: SWzypher@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: shoes, boots
In a message dated 1/5/1 03:45:35 PM, rtlahti@email.msn.com writes:
<<I suspect that Richard referred to the wearing of modern shoes and boots
rather than mocs or period boots. (True)
When I do get into such situations as can not be avoided,
my winter mocs get a bit wet but my feet do not get cold because of how they
are constructed and how they are worn. If one insists on doing it an
ineffective way then the results will be predictable.
> In a case like that modern water resistant boots, hidden best the
wearer
> can do are the only wise alternative.
A fine solution to someone who will not learn. Respectfully,
Capt. Lahti'
Re-reading your entire message and extracting this small portion for
reference, let me say ". . .of a faith, I do perceive . . ." you to be a
comprehensive reader of the source documents of this series, and a very
capable respondent to the facts.
Richard.
or - in subtitles - Yup. That's the way my stick floats, too.
Dick
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Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 21:05:24 EST
From: SWzypher@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: shoes, boots
In a message dated 1/5/1 06:33:20 PM, dlsmith@about.com writes:
<< 35
years. I don't think we have ever been hasseled
at events or AMM doings, you *do the best you can
with what you got and be damn proud of making an
attempt at doing it.
>>
Think back . . . the Capitaine that showed up at rendezvous with a moccasin
on his one foot and a buffalo hoof in place of his other foot. *" . . . do
the best you can with what you got . . ."
Richard James
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Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 21:20:05 EST
From: SWzypher@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: shoes, boots
In a message dated 1/5/1 07:10:46 PM, troberts@gdi.net writes:
<< In your experience
do you find that a hair-in moc (buff for example)
behaves similar to wool by insulating well even
when wet or are you lining a regular moc with
wool wrapping?>>
NOT from Cap't, but an eavesdropper to the site:
I have made mocs very successfully to serve me in foul weather. They had a
core of side-seam buff (hair-in) mocs. Then another moc to cover the first
made with high tops stitched on (can be hard sole - the best - or side seam.
I've done both) Now these cover mocs were waterproofed with patch grease.
Works well unless you hold your feet up to the fire, then they sweat through
from the snow on the outside. I have had cold feet with this arrangement and
walked five steps (I counted them) and my feet were warm. I spent an entire
day filming on the highest peak at Snowbird (Utah ski resort - had to go in
in a chopper) - dead of winter. By the end of the day the cinematographer
and all the crew - who spent half their time in the helecopter and had fine
modern footgear - had wet, cold feet. Mine were still "toasty". Hair-on
sheep hide is fine if you don't have buff. The old statement that a wool
blanket is the only wrap in which you can be wet and yet be warm holds true
here, also. Buff wool, or sheep wool - worked for me. Perhaps a wrap of
wool blanket would, by the same principle work pretty well.
If you choose to try it - my best wishes. A note: I won't expand this
message, but to wrap a high-top moc, you do NOT criss-cross two laces like a
Prince Valliant illustration. One only spiraled to the top is the Indian way
and works best. If you want to try it and are puzzled - write me.
Richard James
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Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 22:32:38 EST
From: HikingOnThru@cs.com
Subject: MtMan-List: Thanks Teton!!!
In a message dated 1/5/01 10:41:07 PM Eastern Standard Time,
tetontodd@juno.com writes:
<< "Wind Walker, A Final Ride with Titus Bass" available in hardback
February 2001 for $24.95.
Can't wait. As I said before, hope ole Titus doesn't go under.
"Teton" Todd D. Glover >>
Teton,
A world of thanks to you!!! I cannot wait. Will go to the local book
merchant and put my order in tomorrow!!! I hope Titus Bass does not go under
either...would be a shame. Still, that ol' cuss IS blind in one eye and has
lived past what is a ripe old age for a trapper in the Shining Mountains!!!
Maybe he will just slip on thru that crack in the sky!!
I know many on the list may groan audibly when they hear me say this, but I
have gleaned a good bit of information on the fur trade era and the culture
of the mtn. man thru the Titus Bass series...many of the things that Johnson
mentions gee and haw with what the nonfiction resources report. The man has
done his research!!!
I finally got good smoke on my flinter .50 trade rifle. We just had to learn
to love each other!!! Gonna go tomorrow and try her on the long range!!!
Wonder what her name will be??? "Make 'Em Come" was good but I think that one
has been taken!!!
Again, thanks for the info, Teton!!!
- -C.Kent
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Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 22:51:48 EST
From: HikingOnThru@cs.com
Subject: MtMan-List: Minimum to get started
In a message dated 1/6/01 12:22:25 AM Eastern Standard Time,
rtlahti@email.msn.com writes:
Capt. Lahti,
As usual, you have shared very useful information (I, as I am sure many
others do, get a lot of useful info from websearches, etc, but your insight
really helps to glue it all together!!!)
<< But do you understand that there are rendezvous for such people who do not
have all their gear and there are rendezvous for people who do?
Now I do!!!
<< No one has a right to attend...there will be events you can not attend and
have no God Given Right to attend until you do.>>
Amen to that!!!! And let me say again...AMEN!!! If there is one thing that
I have come to understand pervades our society-at-large is the gross sense of
entitlement (i.e. - just because someone wants something then it is somehow
automatically their 'right')
I firmly believe that private groups, including those we personally may not
agree with, have a right to make and set their own rules. The choice is
simple...go by their rules or do not go!!!
<<One of the things that hold many people back from really getting into some
of the most intense and interesting submersions into "Buckskinning" is their
fear of being uncomfortable and their unwillingness to figure out how to
"smooth" it so they aren't uncomfortable.>> I can say confidently that
comfort level was never a concern...something I will figure out as I go along
or alter my mental constructs of what comfort to expect when buckskinning. I
will admit an impatience in getting set up where I can attend some of the
more HC rondy events!!! Think I will go as a visitor a few more times to get
a better idea of what I do and really do not need!!!
.
>
<< If one were going to wear modern footwear for one reason or another...what
> would be a good way of making it "blend" better? (solid colors? Buff tan
> boots?) Thanks for your input.
First tell us what kind of event you want to "fit" into. Then I'd be happy
to tell you what it will take at a minimum.>>
I am really interested in the Rocky Mtn. Fur Trade Era ( though living in the
southeast...I am learning that many folks around here do the Eastern
Longhunter personas. I think that either would be welcome at most events
around here? Some other listmembers may want to comment on that.)
Thanks for the info and advice, Capt.
Promising to Pay It Forward,
- -C.Kent
>>
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