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From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest)
To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #654
Reply-To: hist_text
Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
hist_text-digest Tuesday, October 17 2000 Volume 01 : Number 654
In this issue:
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Eastern Mtn. Men vs. Western Mtn. Men
-áááááá =?UTF-8?Q?Re:=20MtMan-List:=20=C3=85x=C3=B7=C2=BF=C2=A8=C2=BF=12?= =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=9E`=1B=E2=80=98?=
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Terry Johnston Novels
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Eastern Mtn. Men vs. Western Mtn. Men
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Western Teritorial?
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Terry Johnston Novels
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Parks
-áááááá MtMan-List: furtrade boats
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: furtrade boats
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Parks
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: furtrade boats
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Eastern Mtn. Men vs. Western Mtn. Men
-áááááá MtMan-List: Re: hist_text-digest V1 #653
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Terry Johnston Novels
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Terry Johnston Novels
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: furtrade boats
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: furtrade boats
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: furtrade boats
-áááááá Fwd: Re: MtMan-List: FindArticles - The Ecological Indian: Myth and History.(Review)
-áááááá MtMan-List: Re: hist_text-digest V1 #653
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: hist_text-digest V1 #653
-áááááá MtMan-List: cart brigades organization
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: metis
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Terry Johnston Novels
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 21:11:16 -0600
From: Todd Glover <tetontodd@juno.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Eastern Mtn. Men vs. Western Mtn. Men
C. Kent,
I would add Rex Norman's "The 1837 Sketchbook of the Western Fur trade"
and possibly Ted Springs' "A Shining Time, Vol. 1." Both have helpful
suggestions.
"Teton" Todd D. Glover
Poison River Party, #1784
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 23:44:54 EDT
From: SWcushing@aol.com
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:=20MtMan-List:=20=C3=85x=C3=B7=C2=BF=C2=A8=C2=BF=12?= =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=9E`=1B=E2=80=98?=
In a message dated 10/15/00 7:26:22 PM, HikingOnThru@cs.com writes:
<< Magpie,
Just curious about your moniker! Did the writings of a certain Terry C.
Johnston inspire this name?
>>
Haaaaaaa......no, my "nom-de-plume" came from the Great Capt Lahti. Not sure
how he came up with it, (I figured it was cause I'm handsome and know how to
fly) but more likely he figured I was always pickin up shiney stuff....<G>
<<the author Terry C. Johnston has a
series of books outlining the life of a young man (Mr. Titus Bass)>>
I have read the Titus Bass series.....good reading for fiction!
Ymos,
Magpie
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 23:13:17 -0600
From: Mike Moore <amm1616@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Terry Johnston Novels
Todd,
You pilgrim, you. I see you got your number. Congratuations!
But, I'll still remember you as a lost pilgrim wondering in camp.
Hope to see you again sometime.
mike.
Todd Glover wrote:
> The first trilogy begins with "Carry the Wind" not "Dance on the Wind"
> and continues with "Borderlords" and "One-Eyed Dream". THEN comes "Dance
> on the Wind" followed by "Buffalo Palace" and "Crack in the Sky." The
> Titus Bass stories continue in "Ride the Moon Down" and conclude (for
> now) with "Death Rattle."
> There are eight of them in all, and it's easy to get them confused. I
> have thoroughly enjoyed them as recreational reading between between more
> serious stuff. If you haven't read them yet, enjoy! Same goes for Allan
> Eckerts' "Winning of America" series beginnijng with "The Frontiersman."
>
> "Teton" Todd D. Glover
> Poison River Party, #1784
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
- ----------------------
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 21:18:21 -0700
From: "Gail Carbiener" <cypmcgc@oregontrail.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Eastern Mtn. Men vs. Western Mtn. Men
The "Book of Buckskinning" series can be found on Bibliofind in the price
range of $10-20 each. Great books.
gail carbiener
>
> > Thanks for the input! Is anyone familiar with any good resources to
guide
> me
> > as I begin to put together my clothing and possibles? I want to do an
> > accurate portrayal without making some costly errors at the onset!
> >
> > -C. Kent
>
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 10:30:06 -0700
From: Randal J Bublitz <randybublitz@juno.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Western Teritorial?
Ole, I just heard from Jim H. . The elevation is 5200' hardtack
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 15:50:26 EDT
From: LODGEPOLE@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Terry Johnston Novels
In a message dated 10/15/00, tetontodd@juno.com writes:
<< The first trilogy begins with "Carry the Wind" not "Dance on the Wind"
and continues with "Borderlords" and "One-Eyed Dream". THEN comes "Dance
on the Wind" followed by "Buffalo Palace" and "Crack in the Sky." The
Titus Bass stories continue in "Ride the Moon Down" and conclude (for
now) with "Death Rattle." >>
This is correct in as much as this is the order in which they were written.
However in order of Titus Bass' life, "Dance on the Wind" followed by
"Buffalo Palace" and "Crack in the Sky" then "Carry the Wind" followed by
"Borderlords" and "One-Eyed Dream" and then "Ride the Moon Down" and "Death
Rattle" would not be an incorrect order in which to read them. Now have got
everyone thoroughly confused?
When I talked to Terry Johnston at a book-signing after the first two
trilogies had been released he said that there were to be three more books.
That of course would be "Ride the Moon Down" and "Death Rattle" which means
there is one more. I'll only say that he said "That will be the hardest book
I've ever written."
Longshot
"Longshot's Rendezvous Homepage"
http://members.aol.com/lodgepole/longshot.html
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 13:38:16 -0600
From: Angela Gottfred <agottfre@telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Parks
Just curious; in Canada, the word 'parks' was used to mean the same thing
as 'buffalo pound'. Does this apply to these 'parks' too, or is it
completely unrelated?
Your humble & obedient servant,
Angela Gottfred
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 20:16:14 GMT
From: "scott mcmahon" <mountedranger@hotmail.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: furtrade boats
I am looking for someone making a bateaux...can anyone out there help with
this? Thanks in advance!
Scott McMahon
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 20:35:29 GMT
From: "Chance Tiffie" <bossloper@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: furtrade boats
Scott,
Boy do I have the fellow for you; his name is Phil Spurlin from El Reno,
Oklahoma. He had plans, photos, and a ton of historical information with
him at the doins' in Lawton. He spent some time with a Bateaux society this
summer and did a trip down the James(?) river. Phil and Joe Curtis were
making tentative plans to build one I think. I will have his phone number
tonight, and will forward to you if interested.
Cliff Tiffie
PO Box 5089
Durant, OK
74702
580-924-4187
- ---------------------
Aux Aliments de Pays!
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 15:42:45 -0600
From: Mike Moore <amm1616@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Parks
Angela,
It seems that in Colorado the word "park" is a open area, usually
flat and with water. The three which I'm familiar with are high mountain
valleys which were tradional hunting grounds in the late fall and winter.
The buffalo, elk and even antelope came into these areas when
snow was deep in the hills around them and in the early spring when
these parks were the first to green up. Trapping was done in these,
but it was easy to trap out the areas, so every few years a party of men
went into them when started seeing enough sign to make it profitable.
You do hear alot about wintering in some of these parks- but I really
don't find much to back that up in the journals. It was too easy to go
alittle
further south (like in south park's location ) and hit a "banana belt" just
on the north side of the Arkansas.
Our parks (not to mention mountains) are different than Wyoming's.
The few horse trips I done up there, it seems they have alot of these
areas. I don't know if you can compare them to the 25- 30 mile long
parks in Colorado, but they are pretty!. What are your's like, Angela?
mike.
Angela Gottfred wrote:
> Just curious; in Canada, the word 'parks' was used to mean the same thing
> as 'buffalo pound'. Does this apply to these 'parks' too, or is it
> completely unrelated?
>
> Your humble & obedient servant,
> Angela Gottfred
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 13:55:35 -0700
From: "Roger Lahti" <rtlahti@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: furtrade boats
Well, I and one of my Brigade Brothers have made bateau's. I used more
modern lumber materials, and Badger used more traditional lumber materials.
His is beautiful and very heavy. Mine is nice and fairly light. How can I be
of service? Capt. Lahti'
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "scott mcmahon" <mountedranger@hotmail.com>
To: <hist_text@xmission.com>
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 1:16 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: furtrade boats
>
> I am looking for someone making a bateaux...can anyone out there help with
> this? Thanks in advance!
> Scott McMahon
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
>
> Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
> http://profiles.msn.com.
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 16:10:40 -0500
From: "jdearing" <jdearing@brick.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Eastern Mtn. Men vs. Western Mtn. Men
>
> Try the aforementioned "The Frontier Rifleman" and the Book of
Buckskinning"
> series from Muzzle Loader Mag publisher Scurlock.
>
>
Try this site. It's full of source material.
http://www.liming.org/alra/alrasrc.html
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 17:35:32 EDT
From: Twosenns@aol.com
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: hist_text-digest V1 #653
I have only been following the list for a short time and have found it very
interesting. I enjoy the history lessons and the affectionate bantering. I
am interested in learning beading and would like your input, tips and
resourses. Thanks,
Ann Mickadeit
Lompoc, California
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 18:09:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: todd glover <tetontodd@juno.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Terry Johnston Novels
Mike,
Thanks. I still wander around looking lost occasionally.
And I shall always remwember you and im as very kind and hospitable fellows
and I hope our trails cross again soon.
Todd
- ------Original Message------
From: Mike Moore <amm1616@earthlink.net>
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
Sent: October 16, 2000 5:13:17 AM GMT
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Terry Johnston Novels
Todd,
You pilgrim, you. I see you got your number. Congratuations!
But, I'll still remember you as a lost pilgrim wondering in camp.
Hope to see you again sometime.
mike.
Todd Glover wrote:
> The first trilogy begins with "Carry the Wind" not "Dance on the Wind"
> and continues with "Borderlords" and "One-Eyed Dream". THEN comes "Dance
> on the Wind" followed by "Buffalo Palace" and "Crack in the Sky." The
> Titus Bass stories continue in "Ride the Moon Down" and conclude (for
> now) with "Death Rattle."
> There are eight of them in all, and it's easy to get them confused. I
> have thoroughly enjoyed them as recreational reading between between more
> serious stuff. If you haven't read them yet, enjoy! Same goes for Allan
> Eckerts' "Winning of America" series beginnijng with "The Frontiersman."
>
> "Teton" Todd D. Glover
> Poison River Party, #1784
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
- ----------------------
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 18:22:29 EDT
From: Mtnman1449@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Terry Johnston Novels
Haven't talked to Terry lately, but he was on a schedule with his publisher
to put one of the trilogy books out in hard back each fall (should be now for
the final installment of 9 total fur trade books) and a paperback for his
"plains" series each spring. Heard anything on the last book?
Patrick J. Surrena
Jim Baker Party, The American Mountain Men, #1449
Colorado
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 03:48:19 GMT
From: "scott mcmahon" <mountedranger@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: furtrade boats
I'm looking for one(bateau) for a re-enactment group...they are interested
in possibly purchasing one...anybody making these things for sale? Any
estimates on cost? Thanks for any help!
Scott McMahon
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 22:17:50 -0700
From: "Roger Lahti" <rtlahti@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: furtrade boats
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "scott mcmahon" <mountedranger@hotmail.com>
To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 8:48 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: furtrade boats
>
> I'm looking for one(bateau) for a re-enactment group...they are interested
> in possibly purchasing one...anybody making these things for sale? Any
> estimates on cost? Thanks for any help!
Well Scott, I don't know of anyone making them for sale. It took me about 3
months to make mine working a few hrs a day most days of the week. I have no
idea how long it took Badger to make his. I probably took the easy route.
With some advice it is not hard to make one or more. There are a couple
books out that give the basics of construction. The originals were made in
the field with a minimum of equipment. You have the advantage of modern
lumber yards and easy to come by fasteners. A few fellas that can co-operate
and stay out of eachothers hair could turn one out in a few weeks.
I've given some though on makeing them if I saw some interest (haven't up to
now) but I suspect I would want a couple thousand give or take to turn one
out. The material is not that expensive but even using the methods I used it
is somewhat labor intensive to build any wood boat. If you want to tackle it
yourselves I would be happy to stear you in the right direction from my
perspective. I remain...
YMOS
Capt. Lahti'
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 06:30:22 EDT
From: Traphand@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: furtrade boats
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 06:48:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: George Noe <gnoe39@yahoo.com>
Subject: Fwd: Re: MtMan-List: FindArticles - The Ecological Indian: Myth and History.(Review)
Hello the list.
Passed this on to a friend and this was his review.
I didn't even open it.
grn
- --- "Melvin D. Swift" wrote:
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: FindArticles - The
> Ecological Indian: Myth and History.(Review)
> Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 23:15:47 -0500
>
> GEORGE:
> THEY MISSED THE BOAT ON THE USE
> OF BEAVER TO LINE FELT HATS. ACTUALLY
> THE BEVER FUR WAS USED TO MAKE THE
> FELT, THAT MADE THE HAT. SEVERAL
> OTHER THINGS DO NOT ADD UP IN THE
> ARTICLE. NOT IMPRESSED WITH THIS ONE!!
> >> The Ecological Indian: Myth and History.(Review)
> >>
>
>http://www.findarticles.com/m1511/9_20/55553393/p1/article.jhtml
> >>
> >> Interesting book on Indians and animal
> populations.
> >> FindArticles - "The Web's First Articles Archive"
> >> http://www.findarticles.com/
=====
George R. Noe< gnoe39@yahoo.com >
Watch your back trail, and keep your eyes on the skyline.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
http://im.yahoo.com/
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 12:47:22 EDT
From: Twosenns@aol.com
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: hist_text-digest V1 #653
I was watching the antiques road show last night and an artist was mentioned.
Frederick Remington. I just picked up 3 prints of his at a swap meet. They
look old, the frames are rustic and the backing is nailed in with old nails
instead of staples. They have type written titles on the bottom of each. 1.
An Arizona Cowboy. 2. A Sioux Chief. 3. A Calvery Officer.
Any info on this artist and where to obtain an appraisel would be greatly
appreciated. Thanks!
Ann Mickadeit
Lompoc, CA
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 17:03:28 -0700
From: Steve M <Boatkiller@pronet.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: hist_text-digest V1 #653
Ann, try this web page
www.allposters.com/gallery.asp?search=Frederick+Remington
Hope this will help you . It has some of his paintings and posters. And
Ann we are neighbors. Contact me off line of the list , and we can
converse.
Steve"boatkiller"McGehee
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 20:07:02 MDT
From: "Terrance Luff" <havenotmetis@hotmail.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: cart brigades organization
ho Red Horse camp:
sorry i missed your phone call. i went into the bull mt. and then a sweat
lodge for a friend that lost a relative.
left the 1803 at home. but saw plenty of speed goats and a few elk moving
north. i think you will injoy this list ,you get a lot of views.
here is a fast outline of the organization if you want to go deeper just
give me a landline. after cars had their rendezoues for a buffalo hunt,
there was an evening meeting. voting for the leaders of the brigade for that
hunt. first we must remember the metis people.Ten Captains were chosen and
one was chosen to be the chief of the hunt or govenor. one was also chosen
as war chief,responsible for the peoples rights.
each captain had ten les soldats Les soldats was a metis warrior responsible
for conducting police action keeping watch and protecting the metis camp.
then ten guides were appointed with the duty of guiding the brigade.the
guide of the day would fly the metis flag from his cart.
rising of the metis flag every morning would signal to prepare for the day
of travel. lowering of the flag would signal the end of travel and
preparation of setting up camp.at the lowering of flag the captain of the
day took lead and his men were in charge of camp.the camp crier provided an
important link of informaion to the metis people from the leaders. each
brigade had their own set of rules. metis did not like rules. he few rule
however were enforced instantly by the la loge de soldats.
Ha Ha yes i do rember that tree. damn lucky it was soft wood(pine) or i
and my horse would be dead. NO don,t tell these people any stores, they all
think i am a saint straight from sunday school.
keep the bucksinning faith red horse
your ole friend pony rider
hiverant metis
preserve and research metis history
bring metis and friends of may tee
into traditions of the cart brigades
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:05:26 -0600
From: Allen Hall <allenhall@srv.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: metis
Hi Angela,
>Allen Hall <allenhall@srv.net> noted that he found no mention of Metis in
>the indexes of numerous journals he consulted.
>
>Allen, I can't comment about what happened after 1820, but I know that in
>the Canadian fur trade journals of the 1774-1821 period, it can be
>devilishly hard to pin down who is and is not metis. The word metis was not
>much used in English; the term half-breed was used far more often, but
I agree that it is a quick and dirty way to find something. But I even
found Mormons in various indexs, but no Metis. And in my memory of reading
the journals I don't recall a single mention of Metis.
My point was more that the Metis were NOT a factor in the Rocky Mountain Fur
Trade as Walt says. I still haven't found anything to change my opinion on
that.
Also, his assertion that Metis built Fort Hall is pure "crap". Notice how
he sidesteps when others asked him to come up with proof.
Oh well. It has inspired me to go back throught the journals and research
what the RMFT American journals had to say about clothes.
Take care and thanks for keeping us all informed,
YMOS,
Allen
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 22:57:03 -0600
From: Mike Moore <amm1616@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Terry Johnston Novels
Pat, my friend and companion-
Don't know what to say about the next book, if there is one. At the end of
"Death Rattle" (the latest from Terry), Titus in a old man with a family going
back
north the "used-to-be-country"; Josiah is going back to Toas with his family
and back into the trading business. Terry leaves the book in a very sober
tone. The fur trade is long past it's prime and people like Titus just doesn't
know what to do with himself. Usually there is a teaser in the front or back
to make you want the next book, but this one doesn't have one. It does make
sense that another book should be made. That way it would round out the nine
books (three sets of three), and of course finish off the two main characters-
but, it seems to me, either he is having a hard time writing the last book, or
it might be a while before the next. Guess we need to ask him the next time
he is in town.
mike.
Mtnman1449@aol.com wrote:
> Haven't talked to Terry lately, but he was on a schedule with his publisher
> to put one of the trilogy books out in hard back each fall (should be now for
> the final installment of 9 total fur trade books) and a paperback for his
> "plains" series each spring. Heard anything on the last book?
>
> Patrick J. Surrena
> Jim Baker Party, The American Mountain Men, #1449
> Colorado
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
End of hist_text-digest V1 #654
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