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From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest)
To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #624
Reply-To: hist_text
Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
hist_text-digest Wednesday, September 13 2000 Volume 01 : Number 624
In this issue:
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Dates on old knives
-áááááá RE: MtMan-List: Leggings & Horse Tack (A Question)
-áááááá MtMan-List: Neatsfoot Oil
-áááááá MtMan-List: old knife on Ebay
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: leggin's (Long)
-áááááá MtMan-List: Fw: knife
-áááááá MtMan-List: Re: MtMan-Fur Era
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Neatsfoot Oil
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Neatsfoot Oil
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Neatsfoot Oil
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Neatsfoot Oil
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: MtMan-Fur Era
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: MtMan-Fur Era
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: MtMan-Fur Era
-áááááá MtMan-List: Fur Era
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: MtMan-Fur Era
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: MtMan-Fur Era
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: MtMan-Fur Era
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Neatsfoot Oil
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Fw: knife
-áááááá MtMan-List: leggin,s and hoss tack
-áááááá MtMan-List: fur trade times
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Neatsfoot Oil
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Neatsfoot Oil
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Neatsfoot Oil
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Neatsfoot Oil
-áááááá RE: MtMan-List: Neatsfoot Oil
-áááááá RE: MtMan-List: Fw:museum presentation
-áááááá MtMan-List: off subject, sorry but important
-áááááá RE: MtMan-List: off subject, sorry but important
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 22:49:49 EDT
From: ThisOldFox@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dates on old knives
> Dave's knife is obviously older and very well might be 150+ years old. The
> stamped, inline logo and the 5 pins are good clues. My point in the
original
> post was that trying to date a knife using a date stamped on its blade is a
> poor method.
I don't know how the h*ll he saw it, but HardDog looked at my pictures and
called me saying there was a diamond under the Russell logo. I looked at the
knife again and couldn't see it so I got out the magnifying glass. Sure
enough, there is a plain diamond there with nothing in it. Don't know how
far up the ladder that moves the dating.
I've got Hanson's book on Trade Knives too, but finding it is another story.
I have forgotten which Dewey Decimal Pile it's in.
Dave Kanger
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 22:00:52 -0600
From: "Walt Foster" <Wfoster@cw2.com>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Leggings & Horse Tack (A Question)
Jon isn't neatsfoot oil. Joint oil. The stuff you get when you cook knees
and feet?
Walt
ORMC 1836-1837
Yellowstone Canoe Camp
On the Lewis & Clark Trail
Park City, Montana
On Mon, 11 September 2000, Jon Marinetti wrote:
>
> What did (if at all) the forefathers in the Rocky Mountains use to
> condition, preserve these very important items? tallow? bear grease? wax
> of some kind? a combination of these? i don't recollect that
> neatsfoot oil was invented or discovered yet.
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jon,
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 23:30:37 -0500
From: "harddog" <harddog@mediaone.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: Neatsfoot Oil
Walt,
Neatsfoot oil is a combination of various animal oils and petroleum
distillates. Or at least that is what is sold today as neatsfoot oil.
YMOS,
Harddog
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 07:41:41 -0500
From: "Frank Fusco" <frankf@centurytel.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: old knife on Ebay
Looks fake to me too. What tipped me off was that seller did not make
statement that is really is old, just hinted at it by mentioning date on
handle.
And the spacer does not strike me as something that would have been done
'back then'. More likely a thicker spacer of bone or wood would have been
used, if at all.
And the clever twist in the guard, not practical for a real fighting
knife.
Thets how my stick floats.
Frank G. Fusco
Mountain Home, Arkansas
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 07:23:33 -0600
From: "Ole B. Jensen" <olebjensen@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: leggin's (Long)
Rick,
I have a book of Millers field Sketches (pencil drawings). I wonder if like
most people the subject of the drawings got dressed up in there finest? and
may have borrowed gear from others?.
YMOS
Ole # 718
- ----------
>From: Rick Williams <rick_williams@byu.edu>
>To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
>Subject: RE: MtMan-List: leggin's (Long)
>Date: Mon, Sep 11, 2000, 11:06 AM
>
>You've questioned the Miller paintings from a practical solution. Now how
>about from a written aspect. One thing that jumps out at me is the
>similarity in many of the Miller paintings as requard to accoutrements. The
>powderhorns and shooting bags, many are just copies of the other. Is this
>attributable to them all being the same brigade so they were outfitted from
>the same source? Did he have a set of props (as do most artists) tht he
>repainted. One thing that jumps out at me is how clean everyone is. Why
>don't you see the black, black, grasy black, bloody black? Why is no one
>shown wearing leggins? (work clothes, earlier style?) Perhaps they had
>winter or trapping (working) wear and summer go to rendezvous wear.
>Afterall most were painted (sketched) on their way to or at rendezvous.
>This does fly in the face of the concept that they simply wore their clothes
>until worn out. The traps when displayed (rarely) are almost always single
>spring. (prop, common brigade source?). There is rarely the presence of two
>bags on a trapper. Does that mean that a shooting bag doubled as a
>possibles bag? Was the possibles bag on the horse or pack animals? In
>light of the recent knife talk, where are the long knives. Most seem to be
>standard butchers. Miller's fringe definately gets longer in his later
>pictures. Just some thoughts.
>
>Rick
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com
>[mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Charles P Webb
>Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2000 2:23 PM
>To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: leggin's (Long)
>
>
>I have seen and handled many of AJ Millers original paintings and
>sketches. I agree that he indeed did attend a rendezvous, and
>that his work is of value for research, but I have never felt that his
>work accurately depicted the clothing of all that attended the
>rendezvous. My humble reasoning is simple, try to assemble
>a tipi today as he shows them in his paintings. Count the number
>of poles, observe the smoke flaps and other details of lodges. If
>indeed he was simply exercising his artistic license in drawing and
>painting rendezvous lodges, is it not possible that this same artistic
>license could have been used in his depiction of the clothing worn by
>attending trappers?
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 07:57:41 -0700
From: "John C. Funk, Jr." <J2Hearts@norcalis.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: Fw: knife
For general interest, the below is a response to a question posed to the
seller of the "old" knife on e-bay.
John Funk
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "chuckw" <chuckw@mwt.net>
To: "John C. Funk, Jr." <J2Hearts@norcalis.net>
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2000 5:48 PM
Subject: Re: knife
> Hi John.
> Im selling this for a friend, whom has two other knives for auction also.
I
> don't know much about them but in the past when Ive sold for him I've told
> him that anything I put on ebay has to have his guarantee. If not
> satisfied, I'd want him to give a refund of the purchase price. Im
assuming
> it's an antique, and made on the date stamped on the knife. Thanks
> Chuck
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John C. Funk, Jr. <J2Hearts@norcalis.net>
> To: <chuckw@mwt.net>
> Sent: Monday, September 11, 2000 10:06 AM
> Subject: knife
>
>
> > Chuck,
> > Are you selling this knife as an "antique" which was made in 1845? Or,
> > could this be a reproduction?
> > John
> >
> >
>
>
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 11:56:03 EDT
From: TrapRJoe@aol.com
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: MtMan-Fur Era
Just when did the fur era begin?
- ----------------------
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 11:02:29 -0500
From: "jdearing" <jdearing@brick.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Neatsfoot Oil
>
> Neatsfoot oil is a combination of various animal oils and petroleum
> distillates. Or at least that is what is sold today as neatsfoot oil.
>
>
Pure Neatsfoot oil with no petroleum distillates can still be found,
but ya gotta ask for it at the saddle and tack shops. I had to special
order the 3 quarts I bought. And it was only available in 3 quart
containers.
J.D.
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 11:18:35 -0500
From: John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Neatsfoot Oil
Compounded Neatsfoot oil is what is most commonly sold and will speed the=20
rotting of certain leathers.
Pure Neatsfoot is supposed to still be the original product. It is medium=
=20
difficult to find.
Today's secret word to aid your search is: "findings".
Refer back to Hardtack's posting for what the mountainmen really used.
John...
At 11:30 PM 9/11/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>Walt,
>
>Neatsfoot oil is a combination of various animal oils and petroleum
>distillates. Or at least that is what is sold today as neatsfoot oil.
>
>YMOS,
>Harddog
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
John T. Kramer, maker of:=A0
Kramer's Best Antique Improver
>>>It makes wood wonderful<<<
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 >>>As good as old!<<<
<http://www.kramerize.com/>
mail to: <kramer@kramerize.com>
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 12:51:54 -0400
From: "Dennis Miles" <deforge1@bright.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Neatsfoot Oil
Just a note of intrest (to me) I use rendered beaver fat for my tannning..
Penetrated well, smells some, but that don't matter much.
D
"Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
http://www.bright.net/~deforge1
"Knowing how is just the beginning"
- ----------------------
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 13:05:37 -0400
From: "John Hunt" <jhunt1@one.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Neatsfoot Oil
Oh !!!!!!!! that smell was beaver !!!!!!!!!!
> Just a note of intrest (to me) I use rendered beaver fat for my tannning..
> Penetrated well, smells some, but that don't matter much.
> D
>
> "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
> DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
> http://www.bright.net/~deforge1
>
> "Knowing how is just the beginning"
>
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
>
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 10:35:54 -0700
From: "Roger Lahti" <rtlahti@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: MtMan-Fur Era
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <TrapRJoe@aol.com>
To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2000 8:56 AM
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: MtMan-Fur Era
> Just when did the fur era begin?
Pretty open ended question, TrapRJoe. Some could say it had no beginning and
has no end. Can you be more specific as to place, people, etc.?
Capt. Lahti
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 13:44:54 EDT
From: TrapRJoe@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: MtMan-Fur Era
Could you help a little more? My wife needs it for an oral report she has to
give in one of her college classes.
- ----------------------
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 11:03:06 -0700
From: "Roger Lahti" <rtlahti@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: MtMan-Fur Era
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <TrapRJoe@aol.com>
To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2000 10:44 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: MtMan-Fur Era
> Could you help a little more? My wife needs it for an oral report she has
to
> give in one of her college classes.
Trapper,
Again, your question was a bit too open ended but if your talking about the
Rocky Mountain Fur Trapper, I would guess that a good answer would be that
it all started with Colter turning around and going back into the mountains
with the leave of Captains Lewis and Clark on their return trip down river.
Colter teamed up with a couple fellas going up stream who wanted him for a
guide. Do you remember when L&C made their return trip?
If your talking about fur trade/trapping in the Americas or even N. America,
it gets much more sticky since the activity surely went on from not long
after Europeans came to this continent. Not much of an answer I admit. I
remain...
YMOS
Capt. Lahti'
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 18:47:03 GMT
From: "Chance Tiffie" <bossloper@hotmail.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: Fur Era
Some people descibe the "golden age" of the fur trade as beginning with the
Lousiana Purchase, and ending with the last rendezvous in 1840. Of course
the fur trade is still going on today, and started when the first fur was
traded in man's early beginnings. However, if your wife is giving a talk
over the era that this list is concerned with; the 1822-1840 time frame
would cover more than she could ever talk about.
_________________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 12:43:12 -0700
From: Lee Newbill <bluethistle@potlatch.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: MtMan-Fur Era
TrapRJoe@aol.com wrote:
> Just when did the fur era begin?
Greetings TrapRJoe
I've read some of the replies, and I'm sure you will get more. As the good
Captain stated, your question is a wee bit broad. There are records of
trapping rights being granted in Europe as early as 1103 (Germany),
however, if your question pertains to the Americas, a Frenchman by the name
of Mr. Samual De Champlain is credited with starting a fur trading post in
1604 at Quebec, and while furs were gathered before that to sell, I believe
ol Sam's post was a first.
If you are looking at the Rocky Mountain Fur Trade, I would have to say it
started when Colter and crew headed back up river in 1806.
Regards
Lee Newbill of North Idaho
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 16:31:02 EDT
From: Hawkengun@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: MtMan-Fur Era
For the Rocky Mtn Fur Trade era, 1806 makes a pretty good starting point, but
1840 is too often pointed out as the year of the "last rendezvous". Fur
buyers/traders continued to venture west and trappers continued to rendezvous
w/ them after 1840. Brown's Hole, Fort Bridger, Bent's Fort, and even Horse
Creek on the Green continued to be rendezvous sites. And of course the Rocky
Mountain fur trade continues to this day.
So with all due respect to Hafen, Gowans and others, I maintain that 1846
makes a better year for the end of the era. In 1846 the Mexican War started
and the Oregon Question was settled, and those events secured the west for
the US and changed the region forever. The west was no longer a "borderland"
under dispute by several powerful claimants. No longer could the Indians
maintain independence by playing the sides against one another. Besides the
international boundaries being settled, more people moved in, the US Army had
a permanent presence, the whole land gradually became markedly less wild. So
I'll stick w/ 1806 (or '03)-1846.
John R. Sweet
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 17:16:48 EDT
From: TrapRJoe@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: MtMan-Fur Era
Thank you all for your help. To be a little more precise, She knows the
Spanish were the first with trade routes, but doesn't know when they started.
Also she ask me when did Albert Pike trap Oklahoma and when did Hudson Bay
come through Okla. As far as when it ended you have answered that to her
satisfaction. She knows in a lesser way it continues, as we trap and belong
to two state trappers assn.
Thanks again for your help.
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 18:24:19 -0700
From: "larry pendleton" <yrrw@airmail.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Neatsfoot Oil
OK ! I'll buy it. Coulda fooled me.
Pendleton
- -----Original Message-----
From: John Hunt <jhunt1@one.net>
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Date: Tuesday, September 12, 2000 10:06 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Neatsfoot Oil
Oh !!!!!!!! that smell was beaver !!!!!!!!!!
> Just a note of intrest (to me) I use rendered beaver fat for my tannning..
> Penetrated well, smells some, but that don't matter much.
> D
>
> "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
> DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
> http://www.bright.net/~deforge1
>
> "Knowing how is just the beginning"
>
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
>
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 21:29:37 EDT
From: LivingInThePast@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: knife
In a message dated 9/12/00 7:58:59 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
J2Hearts@norcalis.net writes:
<< Im
assuming
> it's an antique, and made on the date stamped on the knife. Thanks
> Chuck >>
we all know what happens when you ASS U ME things........ Barney
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 20:25:25 MDT
From: "Terrance Luff" <havenotmetis@hotmail.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: leggin,s and hoss tack
view point: having the desire to relive the old years. at one time i and
some other redered some fat off a bear.we tried on horse gear,patchs,boots,
moc and any thing that looked like leather. it seemed work good on saddles
and leather cinchs soften the leather nicely.boots done good job , moc a
little to soft and strechy.gun patchs
seem to work well. some boy,s reported patchs freeze in bad cold. on book
arttical,we read said some thing about fat being hard on iron,cannot say on
this, we never left our shooters sit that long. all thougt had a
domesticated saddle make tell that anykind of animal fat
shorted the life of leather. again the saddle is made to use, bsides
i would want soft leather on my horse or rocky mountain canary.at my age
walking is not my best abl. so i depend on my animals and want them to
morrow. the boys and i worked on the fact that anything man made would be
hard to come by in the mountain/in fact,steal is/.
hiverant metis
billings montana
ponyrider
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 20:52:35 MDT
From: "Terrance Luff" <havenotmetis@hotmail.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: fur trade times
french half bloods claim walking to mandan's and trading for fur's and
hunting furs pre 1803, from cannada posts. a point. according to some
history buff the price of fur never did drop. eastern board news papers
posted the money worth of goods and never showed a drop in price.also the
beaver made hat held its price, i think the silk became cheeper??
the felt hat still holds the top leavel of out door wear.
the computer is drawing all history people closer and we can compary notes.
all so i can see some book selfs becoming obsolet.[my books]
watch the sky line boy,s
watch your back trial as much as the frount
hiverant metis
billings mt.
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------------------------------
Date: 13 Sep 2000 04:56:05 -0700
From: Buck Conner <buck.conner@uswestmail.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Neatsfoot Oil
On Tue, 12 September 2000, "Dennis Miles" wrote:
>
> Just a note of intrest (to me) I use rendered beaver "fat" for my tannning..
> Penetrated well, smells some, but that don't matter much.
> D
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Larry would you explain to the "Kid", what comes out of the bladder is not "fat" !!!
Following our ancestors,
Barry "Buck" Conner
Resource & Documentation for:
______________________________________________
HISTORICAL RESEARCH & DEVELOPMENT
"Research & field trials in the manner of our forefathers,
before production".
________________________________________HRD__
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 08:02:13 -0400
From: "Dennis Miles" <deforge1@bright.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Neatsfoot Oil
Larry,
Would you please explain to the "Elder Statesman" (read: "old fart") that
I am NOT from Penn. I am from Ohio...
D
"Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
http://www.bright.net/~deforge1
"Knowing how is just the beginning"
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------------------------------
Date: 13 Sep 2000 05:06:57 -0700
From: Buck Conner <buck.conner@uswestmail.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Neatsfoot Oil
On Wed, 13 September 2000, "Dennis Miles" wrote:
>
> Larry,
> Would you please explain to the "Elder Statesman" (read: "old fart") that
> I am NOT from Penn. I am from Ohio...
> D
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That reminds me, when in Penn. we use to say "flush your toilets daily, Ohio needs the drinkin' water". How you doing "kid"!
"Elder Statesman"
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 09:01:30 -0400
From: "Dennis Miles" <deforge1@bright.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Neatsfoot Oil
Most Honorable Elder Statesman.
We have the same saying here. That is why I always took my own "drinking
material" to Potter County when I would shoot those scarwny excuses Penn has
as deer...<G>
Playing "catch up" with the shop.. Trying to stay on top of orders and get
some stock built up.. It is hard to do this time of year , as hunting season
is in and the weather is cool.. My work ethic tends to go to hell from Sept-
March..<G>
Hope you are working hard.. Shouldn't you be retired at your age?? hehehehe
"Kid"
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 12:22:29 -0600
From: "Walt Foster" <Wfoster@cw2.com>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Neatsfoot Oil
Hello around this thread,
Are you guys sure that neetsfoot oil did not originally stem from knee and
foot joints?
Walt
ORMC 1836-1837
Yellowstone Canoe Camp
On the Lewis & Clark Trail
Park City, Montana
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 12:24:57 -0600
From: "Walt Foster" <Wfoster@cw2.com>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Fw:museum presentation
Hello the list,
Information posted during this weeks events at the Yellowstone Country
Museum up on the rimrocks.
Memorandum of goods for Mess. Gardner & Williams pr their order
1 doz razors 24 24
50 3 pt N W Blanketts- 450
25 Kettles 140
50 pipes 175 87 1/2
50 Coffee 175 87 1/2
75 Sugar 100 75
150 Powder 150 225
200 Lead 200 200
2 doz Bridles 36 72
6 doz Knives $9 54
1 doz gun Locks 8 96
1/2 doz rifles
X 500 flour 100 500
20 yd Coth .5 100
20 Soap 100 20.
2 doz penknives 100 24
1 gr Blacksilk HKg 200 40
1 pr Rusha Sheeting 150 75
2 doz naped Hats 8 $192
Walt
ORMC 1836-1837
Yellowstone Canoe Camp
On the Lewis & Clark Trail
Park City, Montana
- ----------------------
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 13:54:27 -0600
From: Joe Brandl <jbrandl@wyoming.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: off subject, sorry but important
Sorry, but thought you outdoors type guys might be interested
SPECIAL ALERT! - Democrat Bill to Rescind Boy
Scout Charter to be Debated Tonight!
SPECIAL ALERT! - Democrat Bill to Rescind Boy
Scout Charter to be Debated Tonight!
CALL OR E-MAIL YOUR MEMBER OF CONGRESS
Tonight the U.S. House of Representatives will
debate and vote on HR 4892 which would
revoke the federal charter of the Boy Scouts of
America. The bill was introduced by Rep.
Lynn Woolsey (D-CA) and co-sponsored by Pete
Stark, (D CA-13), Barbara Lee
(D-CA-9), Cynthia McKinney (D-GA-4), Jerold
Nadler (D-NY-8), Nydia Valazquez
(D-NY-12) and John Lews (D-GA-5)
HR 4892, is named for the anti-Scout lobbying
group "Scouting for All" in Rep. Woolsey's
district. According to the Scouting for All
website, the group's goal is to force the Boy Scouts
of America to change the Boy Scout standards,
its Oath and Law, to give membership to
"gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered youth
and adults. Scouting For All is also advocating
that the Boy Scouts of America end its
discrimination against girls and atheists."
The U.S. Supreme Court decision issued on June
28, 2000 upholding the constitutional right
of the Boy Scouts of America to maintain its
standards led to the introduction of HR 4892 as
a means of circumventing the U.S. Constitution
through the use of financial and governmental
coercion. Scouting For All also is organizing
local groups nationwide to keep Boy Scouts,
who have spent millions of hours cleaning up and
maintaining public parks over the years, from
using or even being in local public parks.
It is essential that ALL OF US who are committed
to saving our Scouts to contact our
Congressman IMMEDIATELY and tell them you are
strongly in favor of the Boy Scouts. Not
only should this bill be defeated, it should not
be a close decision, as was the Supreme Court's
5-4 decision. It is important that it be an
OVERWHELMING defeat for the anti-Boy Scout
lobby.
SAVE OUR SCOUTS announced early today, September
12, 2000, that Rep. Dana
Rohrbacher (R-CA), who is co-chairman of the
House Boy Scout Caucus, Rep. Chris
Cannon (R-UT), and Rep. J.D. Hayworth (R-AZ) are
new members of its National Advisory
Committee. They are confident that they, and
other pro-Scout members of congress can
defeat HR 4892. It is being brought to the floor
with the hope that it can be defeated
overwhelmingly.
To read a copy of the bill that will be
discussed tonight go to:
http://www.savourscouts.com/hr4892.html
To e-mail your member of Congress find their
e-mail address at:
http://www.originalsources.com/PLobby/ContactCongress.html
To contact your member of Congress by telephone
the House of Representatives switchboard
is 202-224-3121.
Have a look at our web site @ www.absarokawesterndesign.com
Call us about our tanning, furs & leather and lodgepole furniture 307-455-2440
New leather wildlife coasters and placemats - ther're great!!
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 14:28:04 -0600
From: louis.l.sickler@lmco.com
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: off subject, sorry but important
Ho the list,
Just read on the "Scouting for all" website that this bill was DEFEATED by a
362 to 12 margin. I thought this one was too stupid to pass, but these
days, you never know.
Lou
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Brandl [SMTP:jbrandl@wyoming.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 1:54 PM
> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
> Subject: MtMan-List: off subject, sorry but important
>
> Sorry, but thought you outdoors type guys might be interested
>
> SPECIAL ALERT! - Democrat Bill to Rescind Boy
> Scout Charter to be Debated Tonight!
>
>
> SPECIAL ALERT! - Democrat Bill to Rescind Boy
> Scout Charter to be Debated Tonight!
>
> CALL OR E-MAIL YOUR MEMBER OF CONGRESS
>
> Tonight the U.S. House of Representatives will
> debate and vote on HR 4892 which would
> revoke the federal charter of the Boy Scouts of
> America. The bill was introduced by Rep.
> Lynn Woolsey (D-CA) and co-sponsored by Pete
> Stark, (D CA-13), Barbara Lee
> (D-CA-9), Cynthia McKinney (D-GA-4), Jerold
> Nadler (D-NY-8), Nydia Valazquez
> (D-NY-12) and John Lews (D-GA-5)
>
> HR 4892, is named for the anti-Scout lobbying
> group "Scouting for All" in Rep. Woolsey's
> district. According to the Scouting for All
> website, the group's goal is to force the Boy Scouts
> of America to change the Boy Scout standards,
> its Oath and Law, to give membership to
> "gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered youth
> and adults. Scouting For All is also advocating
> that the Boy Scouts of America end its
> discrimination against girls and atheists."
>
> The U.S. Supreme Court decision issued on June
> 28, 2000 upholding the constitutional right
> of the Boy Scouts of America to maintain its
> standards led to the introduction of HR 4892 as
> a means of circumventing the U.S. Constitution
> through the use of financial and governmental
> coercion. Scouting For All also is organizing
> local groups nationwide to keep Boy Scouts,
> who have spent millions of hours cleaning up and
> maintaining public parks over the years, from
> using or even being in local public parks.
>
> It is essential that ALL OF US who are committed
> to saving our Scouts to contact our
> Congressman IMMEDIATELY and tell them you are
> strongly in favor of the Boy Scouts. Not
> only should this bill be defeated, it should not
> be a close decision, as was the Supreme Court's
> 5-4 decision. It is important that it be an
> OVERWHELMING defeat for the anti-Boy Scout
> lobby.
>
> SAVE OUR SCOUTS announced early today, September
> 12, 2000, that Rep. Dana
> Rohrbacher (R-CA), who is co-chairman of the
> House Boy Scout Caucus, Rep. Chris
> Cannon (R-UT), and Rep. J.D. Hayworth (R-AZ) are
> new members of its National Advisory
> Committee. They are confident that they, and
> other pro-Scout members of congress can
> defeat HR 4892. It is being brought to the floor
> with the hope that it can be defeated
> overwhelmingly.
>
> To read a copy of the bill that will be
> discussed tonight go to:
> http://www.savourscouts.com/hr4892.html
>
> To e-mail your member of Congress find their
> e-mail address at:
>
> http://www.originalsources.com/PLobby/ContactCongress.html
>
> To contact your member of Congress by telephone
> the House of Representatives switchboard
> is 202-224-3121.
> Have a look at our web site @ www.absarokawesterndesign.com
> Call us about our tanning, furs & leather and lodgepole furniture
> 307-455-2440
> New leather wildlife coasters and placemats - ther're great!!
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
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------------------------------
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