> Several of us that canoe together had similar experiences with a National
> Geographic crew earlier this year at Bonnet's Mill, MO. We where to do
some camp
> scenes in the evening, showing the preparing of food, as well as the
forgaging
> of wild edibles. Buck having been in the period edibles food business,
having written
> about the foraging of wild edible items, etc. and all of us having a
little knowledge of
> what could be available in the area, we five thought we could give them
what they
> where looking for.
>
> Wrong, they supplied what they thought we needed from the local grocery
store,
> Tex Mex south western foods, Chinese herbs (in the bottles with labels
removed)
> and several other items that would be completely wrong for the time
frame -
> 1804-1805. We had a heck of a time getting them to let us use our own
camp
> kitchen that is correct for the period and has seen more miles than the
whole NG
> crew put together. This was the only positive note to the whole experience
we
> encountered with "the folks in the know", the director was behond
reasoning with
> on the edibles or the way they wanted the camp setup.
>
> If this would have been in 1804-1805, we may have been either killed or
robbed
> within the first few hours of being there, out in the open, a fire as big
as a Saturday
> night rendezvous one, and more camp followers hanging around than would
have
> been at a major settlement.
>
> Crazy, sounds like we where working with the same National Geographic crew
or
> their second cousins, they are as bad as Hollywood and changing their way
of
> thinking is real questionable.
>
>
> In the footsteps of others,
>
> D. L. "Concho" Smith
> Historical Advisor for:
> ______________________________________________
> HISTORICAL RESEARCH & DEVELOPMENT
> "Research & field trials in the manner of our forefathers,
> before production".
> ________________________________________HRD__
> Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
>
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Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 22:24:48 -0600
From: "Walt Foster" <Wfoster@cw2.com>
Subject: RE: Fwd: MtMan-List: National Geogaphic & Lewis & Clark
If this would have been in 1804-1805, we may have been either killed or
robbed
within the first few hours of being there, out in the open, a fire as big as
a Saturday
night rendezvous one, and more camp followers hanging around than would have
been at a major settlement.
Crazy, sounds like we where working with the same National Geographic crew
or
their second cousins, they are as bad as Hollywood and changing their way of
thinking is real questionable.In the footsteps of others,
D. L. "Concho" Smith
Same question to you and Crazy, Concho.
Who else would have done or could have made that camp but you 5 guys with
enough realism to ground the film.
In other words. Who else could have made up the 1804 - 1805 pcc [period
correct camp]
Walt out of his badgerhole
ORMC 1836-1837
Yellowstone Canoe Camp
On the Lewis & Clark Trail
Park City, Montana
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 22:37:56 -0600
From: "Walt Foster" <Wfoster@cw2.com>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Off Topic - Congrats Buck
Oh, an article that was written by Buck, "Success in the Fur Trade" has been
selected by the Historical Society (museum newletter) and may end up being
article of the year among these folks, pretty cool and he doesn't know about
this as he's not on the internet to receive the word, while out of town.
Hello Concho,
Then Buck ought to know about Uncle Dick Wooten. He was one of that
original Ashley bunch that came over here on the Yellowstone. He is said to
have packed $7200 at the time of Pine Marten on a single pack horse. Making
it safely out with the furs at the age of 19. A considerable feat. Must be
up there pretty close with the peaks of "success in the Fur Trade" in Bucks
book.
I guess I can mention this with outfear of alerting Buck. Thanks for
letting us know Concho.
Walt
ORMC 1836-1837
Yellowstone Canoe Camp
On the Lewis & Clark Trail
Park City, Montana
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 00:45:47 EDT
From: Squinty54@aol.com
Subject: MtMan-List: Grease
I am making my first pair of winter moccasins and have read a number of
articles etc about the process. Think I've settled on center seam hair-on
outer mocs and a second pair of center seam inner mocs. May try wool liners
as well. My question regards "water-proofing" (really just slowing down the
soaking process as much as possible. I have read several places about
"greasing" the outer shoe with lard, oils, beeswax or some combination of
the above.
What has been your experience with these products? and please excuse the
ignorance, but when I read "lard" or "grease" what am I really reading about?
Is it rendered animal fat? or some other rendering? How do I make it?
Any help on this subject would be greatly appreciated.
YMOS
Steve
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 00:48:30 EDT
From: Squinty54@aol.com
Subject: MtMan-List: Oil tan
Another question I have for the list
What is "oil-tanned" leather? Is it just vegetable (bark) tanned leather
that has been oiled before the final drying?
YMOS
Steve
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------------------------------
Date: 3 Sep 2000 10:27:09 -0700
From: Concho <concho@uswestmail.net>
Subject: Re: Fwd: MtMan-List: National Geogaphic & Lewis & Clark
Frank,
Thank you for the the support, of the five of us Buck still gets the most upset about the way things are done with these different groups, in fact he has damn near wore us out. I told him after this last outing and the way we where to do things according to the director, that I'll pass on the next one. Doing events correctly has to be the same objective of all involved, not just a handfull - the hard core reenactors work themselves into a lather and end up not enjoying the reenactment.
Concho.
On Sat, 02 September 2000, "Frank V. Rago" wrote:
> I really respect you gents who try to make things as realistic as possible.
> I am one of those butt heads who, when watching the different shows on
> history pick apart what is wrong. Most people who watch really do not know
> what they are looking at.
>
> Keep up the good work.
>
In the footsteps of others,
D. L. "Concho" Smith
Historical Advisor for:
______________________________________________
HISTORICAL RESEARCH & DEVELOPMENT
"Research & field trials in the manner of our forefathers,
before production".
________________________________________HRD__
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
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------------------------------
Date: 3 Sep 2000 10:27:09 -0700
From: Concho <concho@uswestmail.net>
Subject: Re: Fwd: MtMan-List: National Geogaphic & Lewis & Clark
Frank,
Thank you for the the support, of the five of us Buck still gets the most upset about the way things are done with these different groups, in fact he has damn near wore us out. I told him after this last outing and the way we where to do things according to the director, that I'll pass on the next one. Doing events correctly has to be the same objective of all involved, not just a handfull - the hard core reenactors work themselves into a lather and end up not enjoying the reenactment.
Concho.
On Sat, 02 September 2000, "Frank V. Rago" wrote:
> I really respect you gents who try to make things as realistic as possible.
> I am one of those butt heads who, when watching the different shows on
> history pick apart what is wrong. Most people who watch really do not know
> what they are looking at.
>
> Keep up the good work.
>
In the footsteps of others,
D. L. "Concho" Smith
Historical Advisor for:
______________________________________________
HISTORICAL RESEARCH & DEVELOPMENT
"Research & field trials in the manner of our forefathers,
before production".
________________________________________HRD__
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 19:25:29 -0600
From: "Walt Foster" <Wfoster@cw2.com>
Subject: RE: Fwd: MtMan-List: National Geogaphic & Lewis & Clark
Frank,
Thank you for the the support, of the five of us Buck still gets the most
upset about the way things are done with these different groups, in fact he
has damn near wore us out. I told him after this last outing and the way we
where to do things according to the director, that I'll pass on the next
one. Doing events correctly has to be the same objective of all involved,
not just a handfull - the hard core reenactors work themselves into a lather
and end up not enjoying the reenactment.
Concho.
Hi Concho,
This is what I am talking about. I have walked away from opportunity
because they did not care if it was portrayed right. And most groups fail
to act together when it comes to money on the spot. I think things are
going to get better for old hands because of the up and coming L&C
bicentennial.
Walt
ORMC 1836-1837
Yellowstone Canoe Camp
On the Lewis & Clark Trail
Park City, Montana
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 08:59:07 -0700
From: "larry pendleton" <yrrw@airmail.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Alfred Jacob Miller
Laura,
As usual, you are right on all points. Miller's works are extremely
important because he was actually there at a Rendezvous, and actually made
sketches of the fur trappers.
Having had the oppurtunity to view a good portion of Miller's work, There
is no doubt he used some artistic liscense after he returned to
civilization. After all, the truth is almost never as exciting as fiction.
I will always argue, there are "one pole, Miner's Tents" in the
background in one of Miller's original pencil drawings, but they do not
showup in the painting he made from that sketch.
What is certain is the fact that Miller's work is the only artistic
record of how the trappers dressed, what things they carried, how they
carried them, and how they went about their daily lives, His work is
invaluable in making the transition between what has been written about how
the fur trappers looked and actually being able to visualize it.
My 2 cents worth,
Pendleton
-----Original Message-----
From: Wind1838@aol.com <Wind1838@aol.com>
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Date: Sunday, September 03, 2000 10:42 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Alfred Jacob Miller
WY
I gave Mike an A+ because "he looked" at what I suggested. He followed
Miller's trail/art, which I find extremely significant in the Rocky Mountain
fur trade.
My opinion aside, most scholars agree that Miller's field sketches were much
more authentic (accurate) than his later paintings. Miller found a
formula-of-sorts on which the American public binged. It is important to
remember that before Miller, Catlin, Bierstadt, America had not glimpsed
what
Lewis and Clark and others had seen. I digress.
Alfred Jacob Miller wasn't keen on Captain Stewart's way of life. He was a
native of Baltimore. He was a classical individual, he studied in Paris and
was a portrait painter. Stewart found him in New Orleans. I assume
Stewart's offer was too generous to ignore, so Miller ventured past his
comfort zone.
Any art historian will tell you that as Miller painted the west years later,
HE DIGRESSED from what was the reality prior to 1837, his Rendezvous with
the
Captain.
Questions raised are always enlightening.
Respectfully,
Laura Glise
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------------------------------
Date: 4 Sep 2000 09:22:53 -0700
From: Concho <concho@uswestmail.net>
Subject: RE: Fwd: MtMan-List: National Geogaphic & Lewis & Clark
> Frank,
>
> Thank you for the the support, of the five of us Buck still gets the most
> upset about the way things are done with these different groups, in fact he
> has damn near wore us out.......
> Doing events correctly has to be the same objective of all involved,
> not just a handfull - the hard core reenactors work themselves into a lather..
>
> Concho.
>
- -------------------------------
> Hi Concho,
>
> This is what I am talking about. I have walked away from opportunity
> because they did not care if it was portrayed right. And most groups fail
> to act together when it comes to money on the spot.........
>
> Walt
- -------------------------------
Hey Walt,
When they realize, if they ever do - maybe we can make a difference in the way things are done in this industry. In "Black Robe", "The Mountain Men", "Centennial" and "Son of Morning Star", along with a few others they used folks like Jerry Crandall, Kathy Smith and Jerry Farenthalt for clothing, advise and general knowledge (only bits and pieces where taken and used), but is was a start. Now Mark Baker has had a chance at this roll in a couple of movies, again small amounts of advise where used, still a start in the right direction. Like you say a couple hundred a day will change many folks mind.
In the footsteps of others,
D. L. "Concho" Smith
Historical Advisor for:
______________________________________________
HISTORICAL RESEARCH & DEVELOPMENT
"Research & field trials in the manner of our forefathers,
before production".
________________________________________HRD__
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 12:53:02 EDT
From: Wind1838@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Alfred Jacob Miller
Don't you know Alfred Jacob Miller would be tickled pink (or mauve, or
fuschia) that we hold his work in such high regard; considering it not only
fine art but some of the finest historical reference!
I don't think we can make that assumption regarding size, Mike. All
paintings are documented by size and year when they are cataloged by museums.
Best use the information documented by the curators and then compare it to
where Miller was at the time. We do know that Miller returned to Scotland
with Stewart (I think for two years, i.e. Murthley Castle) and painted the
larger murals which corresponded to his field sketches.
When I first jumped on the list a couple of years ago, I was much more
familiar with Catlin. But there were some excellent discussions on Miller, I
would suggest anyone dig into our archives to learn more.
Laura Glise
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 17:14:15 GMT
From: "scott mcmahon" <mountedranger@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: John Coffee Hays in the furtrade?
Mike,
Well I never! ...It's good to see somebody up in your part of the country
has a sense of humor about this subject! I was up at Bent's Fort in July and
got to listen to all the anti-Texan propoganda, what's that all about? I had
people completely mad at me because Texas, a hundred and fifty years ago,
claimed the land now known as Colorado! If your scanner won't work I
understand... how ever you want to send it is FINE with me...I really
appreciate it! Contact me off-list and I'll send you my address if you'd
rather mail it. Thanks again and look forward to seeing some of you guys
