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From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #591 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Friday, July 14 2000 Volume 01 : Number 591 In this issue: -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Invitation only gets tougher -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Invitation only gets tougher -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: OT (sorta): Thankee Kindly -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Invitation only gets tougher -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: OT (sorta): Thankee Kindly -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Invitation only gets tougher -áááááá RE: MtMan-List: Invitation only gets tougher -áááááá RE: MtMan-List: Invitation only gets tougher -áááááá RE: MtMan-List: Invitation only gets tougher -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Invitation only gets tougher -áááááá RE: MtMan-List: Invitation only gets tougher -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Invitation only gets tougher -áááááá RE: MtMan-List: Invitation only gets tougher -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Invitation only gets tougher -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: fort orleans found -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: fort orleans found -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: fort orleans found -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: fort orleans found -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: fort orleans found -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: fort orleans found -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: fort orleans found -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: fort orleans found ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 23:09:31 -0700 From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Invitation only gets tougher well said sir John---couldnt have put it any better myself---many out there few are chosen---and the real ones survive--- "HAWK" Michael Pierce "Home of ".Old Grizz" Product line " trademark (C) 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor florida 34684 Phone Number: 1-727-771-1815 E-Mail: hawknest4@juno.com Web site: http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 20:33:03 -0700 From: "Roger Lahti" <rtlahti@email.msn.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Invitation only gets tougher - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Walt Foster" <Wfoster@cw2.com> To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2000 6:48 PM Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Invitation only gets tougher > Roger, > > My grandmother Wilson was from the neck of the woods under discussion. She > was very proud of being a Daughter of the American Republic [DAR] and her > Cherokee heritage as well. Walt, And well she might be! Thanks for straightening me out, I always thought it was "Daughers of the American Revolution" (DAR). I stand informed. > > My Aunt Nathalie was named after Nathan Foster who left New York right after > the Revolutionary War for what we now call Missouri. New York being much too far north for where the "Over Mountain Men" were said to have come from. > > They referred to their relations as woods men not mountain men. They may very well have refered to their relations as woods men. History refered to the men from west of the Carolinas from across the Blue Ridge and the Smoky's, etc. as "Over Mountain Men", not woods men though that is surely what they were. Consumate woods men at that, skilled in surviving in an environment much more hostile and deadly than what the RMFT found in his wanderings. Those men had been fighting nature and the native inhabitants all their lives and winning. Even winning against enemies as well armed as they if not more so. When they finally got their hair up, they came riding out of the western mountains with a battle fury reminiscent of their Scottish Highands Fathers and woods skills to out indian the Indian. Not deserving of the name "First Mountain Men"? Hardly. > > I believe this dilutes history not strengthens it. I'm not sure how this dilutes history, rather it seems to enrich our history. To withhold the Honorific "Mountain Man" to only those who worked in the Rocky's for the few years of the American Far West Fur Trade, is to belittle and deny those who came before and who were every bit the opitomy of the "mountain man" even unto their historical name. > > I do not think the writer makes a valid point but you are entitled to your > opinion. I think the writer made a very important point. Of course you are intitled to your opinion as well. > > I think John Colter was the first American mountain man. John Colter was one of the first to stay on in the Rocky's after the Lewis and Clark Expedition but he went back into the mountains with others and until he turned around he was just another member of the expedition and a green horn at that compared to the older hunters in the Party. He did become a man of legend and took his place alongside those who went before like Boone, Kenton, etc. Perhaps he was the first true Rocky Mountain Free Trapper but perhaps he was just the one that had stories told about him. > > One condition for a green horn was to spend a year in the Rocky Mountains. So the experienced hunters in the Lewis and Clark Expedition were Green Horns? Bet you wouldn't call them that to their face and live to tell about it. Of course the new man (inexperienced) coming to the RMFT was not considered an old hand until he had proven himself but that requirement was made up in no different fashion that what is imposted on any newcomer to any vocation even today. I doubt that a newcomer to the Blue Ridge or the Smokeys would have been considered any different until he had proven himself or better yet lived through a year. It is the way of established journeymen the world over. YMOS Capt. Lahti' - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 23:42:43 -0700 From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: OT (sorta): Thankee Kindly well said buck concure with hanson being the man---loved to listen to his stories--- YMHOSANT =+= "HAWK" Michael Pierce "Home of ".Old Grizz" Product line " trademark (C) 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor florida 34684 Phone Number: 1-727-771-1815 E-Mail: hawknest4@juno.com Web site: http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 23:44:53 -0700 From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Invitation only gets tougher concure "HAWK" #256 ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 23:30:31 -0700 From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: OT (sorta): Thankee Kindly thanks bubba ---but i guess i'm the end of this family line---last mail child---the name will carry on but thru one of the girls in the family---have 8 sisters---am the only mail and no sons have a half brother but different last name---but same gean pool---same mother different fathers--- appreciate your fine words---hope to be of assistance where i can---on or off line anytime---live with a standard and will die with it--- hope to smoke and greet those brothere some day an the big doins and again give bill hell among with some of the others past---lest we forget--- "HAWK" Michael Pierce "Home of ".Old Grizz" Product line " trademark (C) 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor florida 34684 Phone Number: 1-727-771-1815 E-Mail: hawknest4@juno.com Web site: http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 22:29:40 -0700 (PDT) From: S Jones <deafstones@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Invitation only gets tougher - --- Phyllis and Don Keas <pdkeas@market1.com> wrote: > ::You will have to forgive me, but I am really > beginning to have some problems with what you are > saying. > Ed Ingrim has been a friend of mine ever since I > started in this business by also becoming a member > of the Jed Smith club in the middle 80's. Ed never > has been a member of the AMM. > If you are wanting to join the AMM just to get > recognition, you are joining for the wrong reason. > I would suggest you reconsider. > I am not sure you will be able to find two good > sponsors who will sponsor you for wanting to join > for the reason you gave. > If you are living in Kansas, I will probably know > who your sponsors are since I know all of the AMM > members in Kansas. Also since I am the Brigade > Booshway for Kansas. > I would like to know where you live and if we have > any acquaintances in common. It could be that we > have already met. Don Keas > I'm surprised that I've been misled by Sidemeat. That is a serious matter for me. I know no one at all then who's associated with the AMM. I reside in Great Bend currently. I was past secretary for the Kansas Muzzleloading Association under Stan Hamel and then Gary Doornbos. i'm acquainted with a few others from around Russell, Wichita, and other towns. Can't say that your name rings a bell. Just caught the thread about Hanson of Chadron, Nebraska. I remember my first meeting there in 1981. Had a few questions for him and he pulled my leg a couple times before I recognized his humor. I asked what a 'roach spreader' was in a display, I did not know that it was head dress. He had me believing that it was drug paraphernalia and I just couldn't visualize it. Quite a man. Met him again a year later and bought the Sketchbook series. I realize now that Bossloper membership is something that is bestowed, not sought. Forgive my earlier ignorance. I don't want to 'crash your party' since I now have a fuller idea of what the AMM actually is. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail û Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 00:21:48 -0600 From: "Walt Foster" <Wfoster@cw2.com> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Invitation only gets tougher Rodger, Of course it does. You can see how much of a difference a word change can make. My grandmother was a Wilson. A Scot name and the Wilson's were from North Carolina. Sure I would. The expedition recorded a temperature of 45 degrees below zero during the winter with the Mandan. Nothing in the east prepared them for that. Without help the expedition might have been very different that first winter on the northern plains. John Colter was the only one released from the expedition to join with Dixon and Handcock to return up the Yellowstone River and winter on the Clark's Fork of the Yellowstone River 1806. You are right they were the first 3 free trappers in the area. While engaged with Manual Lisa begins the Legend of John Colter but he is no longer a free trapper. You can buy into that story if you want to and try to sell it if you want to but I am not buying into it. If you read the first 40 or so pages of James Clyman Journal of a Mountain Man you can see that it was not easy for woods men to adapt to the northern plains and the Rocky Mountains. It took a while to adapt to things. Johnson Gardner or Gardiner came out here in the 1820s and led a successful life lasting more than 40 years on the upper Yellowstone. Walt Park City, Montana - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 02:36:22 -0600 From: "Walt Foster" <Wfoster@cw2.com> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Invitation only gets tougher How many on this list have completed the #15 requirement with a bow? Walt Park City, Montana - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 02:36:20 -0600 From: "Walt Foster" <Wfoster@cw2.com> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Invitation only gets tougher How many on this list have attended the freeze out camps from the 70s, 80s and 90s held near Park City, Montana? - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 03:20:04 -0700 From: "Larry Huber" <shootsprairie@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Invitation only gets tougher I wasn't referring to the "list" but to the organization that accepts members. Anyone can share opinions and experiences on this "chat line" that pertains to the Fur Trade. But you expressed an interest in joining this fraternal organization but enjoy being a "lone wolf"(keeping your own company). I'm just trying to point out that those two aspects might be in conflict. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Walt Foster <Wfoster@cw2.com> To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2000 11:15 PM Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Invitation only gets tougher > Larry, > > I don't see this list as being a forum for the historical fur trade and a > school in survival. I do see the education aspects of the Rocky Mountain > Fur Trade 1800-1850, particularly the Rendezvous approach as being the > paramount feature. Of course with this focus, American Mountain Men comes > all the related aspects. Liking the history of the American mountain man > shows like mindedness on this list. If it is important to you now keep > after it. S. Jones. > > > Walt > On the Lewis & Clark Trail > Park City, Montana > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Larry Huber > Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2000 9:44 PM > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Invitation only gets tougher > > Aside from being a forum for the historical fur trade and a school in > survival, the American Mountain Men is a fraternal organization that seeks > its company in like mided individuals. In other words, were supposed to be > social. True lone wolves will find that part difficult. You need to be "on > the ground" with a number of the members over a certain period of time. > Once the boys get to know you, getting two sponsers shouldn't be a > problem...unless it is. > > Larry Huber #1517 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: S Jones <deafstones@yahoo.com> > To: <hist_text@xmission.com> > Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2000 3:06 PM > Subject: MtMan-List: Invitation only gets tougher > > > > A few years ago, Ed "Sidemeat" Ingram wanted to > > sponsor me for the AMM. Trouble was, I needed another > > sponsor and then the entry standards were also > > toughened. Have no trouble with MOST of the now 15 > > standards listed. I'm a lone wolf who prefers my own > > company in the same way that Thomas Jefferson did > > (remember his quote?) Anyways, I might show up in > > rendezvous finally to see if my company is acceptable > > and will gladly join if invited. Keep the sun on your > > back and your powder dry. > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! > > http://mail.yahoo.com/ > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: 13 Jul 2000 04:52:33 -0700 From: buck.conner@uswestmail.net Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Invitation only gets tougher On Thu, 13 July 2000, "Walt Foster" wrote: > > How many on this list have completed the #15 requirement with a bow? > Walt > Park City, Montana > > > ---------------------- Count me as one Walt, several times on deer and elk. Later. Buck Conner ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "One who trades" "Uno quien negocia" "Unquil Commerce" English Spanish French * Phila * St.Louis * Trade West * Aux Aliments de Pays! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://pages.about.com/buckconner/ Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 07:53:35 -0400 From: "Dennis Miles" <deforge1@bright.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Invitation only gets tougher Walt Wrote >" How many on this list have completed the #15 requirement with a bow?" Yo D #1622 Hiv. Ohio - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: 13 Jul 2000 04:59:55 -0700 From: buck.conner@uswestmail.net Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Invitation only gets tougher On Thu, 13 July 2000, "Walt Foster" wrote: > > > How many on this list have attended the freeze out camps from the 70s, 80s and 90s held near Park City, Montana? > > > ---------------------- Remember the 70's camps near Park City, don't remember them being called "freeze out" camps, just cold. Later. Buck Conner ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "One who trades" "Uno quien negocia" "Unquil Commerce" English Spanish French * Phila * St.Louis * Trade West * Aux Aliments de Pays! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://pages.about.com/buckconner/ Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: 13 Jul 2000 05:05:56 -0700 From: buck.conner@uswestmail.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Invitation only gets tougher On Wed, 12 July 2000, "Roger Lahti" wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Walt Foster" <Wfoster@cw2.com> > To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> > Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2000 6:48 PM > Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Invitation only gets tougher > > > > Roger, > > > > My grandmother Wilson was from the neck of the woods under discussion. > She was very proud of being a Daughter of the American Republic [DAR] and her Cherokee heritage as well. > > Walt, > > And well she might be! Thanks for straightening me out, I always thought it was "Daughers of the American Revolution" (DAR). I stand informed. > Capt...... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ That's interesting I have several letters and receipts from the "Daughers of the American Revolution" for several grave yards that they control back east in PA and NY states. If you use many of these sites for family members to be buried at you have to pay a fee to the "Daughers of the American Revolution", if that site is listed as one of their sites that they control. Later. Buck Conner ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "One who trades" "Uno quien negocia" "Unquil Commerce" English Spanish French * Phila * St.Louis * Trade West * Aux Aliments de Pays! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://pages.about.com/buckconner/ Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 10:54:29 EDT From: EmmaPeel2@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: fort orleans found UM...speaking as an archaeologist, the jury is still out on this. They've apparently found only one artifact (at a manned fort?),and I've never known a grave to emit an electromagnetic pulse unless the battery from someone's 18th-century pacemaker was still going and going. And why isn't NPS involved? A qualified archaeologist would have been onsite within a week, had they known? If there IS a historic fort of such significance, including graves -- the Knights may as well kiss their farm goodbye. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 08:59:31 PDT From: "Robert Thomson" <hunter1828@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: fort orleans found That's not necessarily so. As an NPS employee I can tell you it isn't always easy to get an archaeologist to an existing, well-known site for work. Robert "Thanks to kind Providence, here I am again at good old Fort Union" Charles Larpenteur, 1838 - ---- Robert Thomson AMF Co Fort Union - ----Original Message Follows---- From: EmmaPeel2@aol.com Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: fort orleans found Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 10:54:29 EDT And why isn't NPS involved? A qualified archaeologist would have been onsite within a week, had they known? ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 17:24:05 -0500 From: "northwoods" <northwoods@ez-net.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: fort orleans found Why should the NPS get involved? There are plenty of historically significant sites that have been discovered, archeologically investigated and researched (paid for with private funds), and are currently being protected by private organizations or individuals. Not to mention State and Local efforts to do the same. There are to many important sites the way it is on Federal land that will never be adequately protected and researched, and I've seen to many times when research that has been done is never made available to the public or correctly published. As far as the Knights having to give up there farm if the site is determined to be historically significant... that would be a sad state of affairs. Particularly since they have already taken steps to preserve the site themselves. What should happen is the federal government or the archeological community provide assistance in cases like this. The people Who work for the NPS, FS, etc. certainly are not perfect as evidenced, for example, by the fires caused by inept government employees in N.M. this year. For them to step in, in situations like this, and take away everyone else's right to participate in the decision making process is wrong in my opinion. Just my humble opinion, Tony Clark - -----Original Message----- From: EmmaPeel2@aol.com <EmmaPeel2@aol.com> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Date: July 13, 2000 9:55 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: fort orleans found >UM...speaking as an archaeologist, the jury is still out on this. They've >apparently found only one artifact (at a manned fort?),and I've never known a >grave to emit an electromagnetic pulse unless the battery from someone's >18th-century pacemaker was still going and going. And why isn't NPS >involved? A >qualified archaeologist would have been onsite within a week, had they known? >If there IS a historic fort of such significance, including graves -- the >Knights may as well kiss their farm goodbye. > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 23:54:33 -0700 From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: fort orleans found according to the antiquities act of 1998 i believe---if anything is over 100 years and found on public or privet property ---you do not own it---it belongs to the state and you must first notify then before it is moved to get a ok---unless the treasure hunter magazine i read on ocasions is incorrect--- "HAWK" Michael Pierce "Home of ".Old Grizz" Product line " trademark (C) 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor florida 34684 Phone Number: 1-727-771-1815 E-Mail: hawknest4@juno.com Web site: http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 21:21:29 -0700 From: "Michael W. Finnie" <mwf1@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: fort orleans found here's a good link for lots of the Archeological and cultural rules and regs http://www.cr.nps.gov/linklaws.htm and of course our benevolent and all-knowing gummint can certainly exercise their power of eminent domain to take (with 'just' compensation, of course) whatever they deem fit - to wit: this verbiage from the Historic Sites Act of 1935 16 U.S.C. sec. 461-467 : (d) For the purpose of sections 461 to 467 of this title, acquire in the name of the United States by gift, purchase, or otherwise any property, personal or real, or any interest or estate therein, title to any real property to be satisfactory to the Secretary... At 11:54 PM 7/13/00 -0700, you wrote: >according to the antiquities act of 1998 i believe---if anything is over >100 years and found on public or privet property ---you do not own >it---it belongs to the state and you must first notify then before it is >moved to get a ok---unless the treasure hunter magazine i read on >ocasions is incorrect--- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 07:32:03 -0500 From: "northwoods" <northwoods@ez-net.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: fort orleans found Hawk, If I happen to find a cache of trade silver while digging in my garden, it is mine to keep free and clear. If an item is found on state land here in WI where I live it belongs to the state, unless it's less than 100 years old in which case it still belongs to the original owner unless is can be shown that the item was abandoned. Thats basically the way it works to my knowledge. Anything that is on private land belongs to the owner. If the government chooses to exercise eminent domain owners must be given appropriate compensation. - -----Original Message----- From: Michael W. Finnie <mwf1@earthlink.net> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Date: July 13, 2000 11:21 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: fort orleans found >here's a good link for lots of the Archeological and cultural rules and regs >http://www.cr.nps.gov/linklaws.htm > >and of course our benevolent and all-knowing gummint can certainly exercise >their power of eminent domain to take (with 'just' compensation, of course) >whatever they deem fit - >to wit: this verbiage from the Historic Sites Act of 1935 16 U.S.C. sec. >461-467 : > >(d) For the purpose of sections 461 to 467 of this title, acquire in the >name of the > United States by gift, purchase, or otherwise any >property, personal or real, or > any interest or estate therein, title to any real property >to be satisfactory to the > Secretary... > > > >At 11:54 PM 7/13/00 -0700, you wrote: >>according to the antiquities act of 1998 i believe---if anything is over >>100 years and found on public or privet property ---you do not own >>it---it belongs to the state and you must first notify then before it is >>moved to get a ok---unless the treasure hunter magazine i read on >>ocasions is incorrect--- > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 08:42:07 PDT From: "Robert Thomson" <hunter1828@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: fort orleans found Very true. A perfect example is the steamboat Arabia. She was found on private property and the museum and artifacts remain in the hands of the people who found her. Robert "Thanks to kind Providence, here I am again at good old Fort Union" Charles Larpenteur, 1838 - ---- Robert Thomson AMF Co Fort Union - ----Original Message Follows---- From: "northwoods" <northwoods@ez-net.com> Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: fort orleans found Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 07:32:03 -0500 Hawk, If I happen to find a cache of trade silver while digging in my garden, it is mine to keep free and clear. If an item is found on state land here in WI where I live it belongs to the state, unless it's less than 100 years old in which case it still belongs to the original owner unless is can be shown that the item was abandoned. Thats basically the way it works to my knowledge. Anything that is on private land belongs to the owner. If the government chooses to exercise eminent domain owners must be given appropriate compensation. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 12:17:57 -0700 From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: fort orleans found believe the antiquities act of 1998 changed that a bit---said that you are required to notify the BLM or the state or federal archologilist upon finding anything over 100 years old on state, federal or privet land---then the state and federal will decide if it can be removed or altered---normal cases the agency will say dont worry but if its indian stuff---or very area historical stuff they will shut you down---they are having a problem with that in several states nowdays---seems if the curator of antiquities for the state is on his toes and he gets very active is where a lot of problems lie---they can do what they darn well wish and have a judge agree with them------several building projects have been stopped in Mo because of finding indian arrow points and cannon balls and such. not really as simple as it sounds---if you find a cash of gold or silver coins on privet ground and it is over 100 years the state or federal agency has the authority to conficate it if you remove it from its original placement before they are notified and they dont approve removal in writing---there is not a time span between notification and removal there is where the main problem lies---you find then notify and then remove they can if you do not get written permission to remove they can come and consficate the articles---Yes you have ownership but you dont have authority to alter or remove without written permission--- I have a book here its name is "treasure laws of the united states---compiled by R.W. "doc" Grim---it goes into great depth of all the treasure laws and what you will find is that each one conflicts the other it depends on the one they want to use to define ownership and or possession---best not to notify anyone but be sure you forget where you found something and put away in a safe place---the book goes thru state by state and the federal laws---and if you do a bit of prospecting and such on privet or public lands you need to read very carefully---some state and federal laws conflict in what they say---a big problem--- suggest you go to the library and pick it up and peruse it a bit---and you will see the mass confusion and conflicts of the various state and federal laws---it seems that one is not talking to the other---so its a real problem---dan anderson and i do a bit of prospecting and using detectors when we go west to treck and have gotten pretty familiar with the laws in the states that we go to---and there is a lot of conflicts in the laws in NM-AZ-NV-MO-IL -AR -TX and thats a fact---also the transport of artifacts you need to check out the reference i gave you and also treasure hunter magazine a couple of years back reviewed the new antiquities act of 98 and compaired it to earlier ones---it seems it did not overturn the previous laws just added confusion to them--- the appropiate compensation rule is a funny one it's a open one---can give you a dollar and other good and valuable considerations like thank you and that fits the bill -and can shut down a building project until they wish to release you with no time limit or justification for holdup-----a real problem but ---check out what Doc has to say---see page 189-thru 193 it covers washington state---then compare it to the federal laws in front----- some of the federal laws are: federal historical preservation law dated 1989-90 mining and national parks act of 1976 antiquities act of 1906 archological resources act of 1979 abandoned shipwreck act of 1987 submerged land act of 1889 law of salvage act (DATED ????) custidy of resources act 1960 the mining act of 1889 revision to the above mining act dated 1990 archological discoveries act (DATED ???) historical preservation acts. (state and federal ---many different) transport of historical artifacts act (state and federal) and each state has their own response to the above---???????? Just my humbel opinion of course--- "HAWK" Michael Pierce "Home of ".Old Grizz" Product line " trademark (C) 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor florida 34684 Phone Number: 1-727-771-1815 E-Mail: hawknest4@juno.com Web site: http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce On Fri, 14 Jul 2000 07:32:03 -0500 "northwoods" <northwoods@ez-net.com> writes: > Hawk, If I happen to find a cache of trade silver while digging in my > garden, it is mine to keep free and clear. If an item is found on > state land > here in WI where I live it belongs to the state, unless it's less > than 100 > years old in which case it still belongs to the original owner > unless is can > be shown that the item was abandoned. Thats basically the way it > works to my > knowledge. Anything that is on private land belongs to the owner. If > the > government chooses to exercise eminent domain owners must be given > appropriate compensation. ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #591 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.