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From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest)
To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #582
Reply-To: hist_text
Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
hist_text-digest Saturday, July 1 2000 Volume 01 : Number 582
In this issue:
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: patch knife documentation
-áááááá MtMan-List: NOVA
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: NOVA
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Hides
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Hides
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Hides
-áááááá MtMan-List: When did it end?
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: When did it end?
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Hides
-áááááá Re: [MtMan-List: Moving]
-áááááá MtMan-List: Flint doubles
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: NOVA
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: NOVA
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 04:19:32 -0500
From: John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: patch knife documentation
At 03:09 PM 6/27/00 -0500, Matt Porter wrote:
>To whomever it may concern,
> Here is all the info about patch knives I mentioned. I know there is
>stuff you all know but I'm sure it can't hurt.
Matt,
I still have my signed first edition of Grant's fine and extensive work. I
have a few points of disagreement with a few of his conclusions. Not
really over patch knives; he says anything that will cut a patch is a patch
knife. He doesn't make the claim that the term is old.
What you quote is terminology he learned from paper punchers at
Friendship. People who use plastic tackle boxes and wear blue stripe
overalls; a common specie known as "blue stripe whistlers". They set the
terminology back in the 30's and when the old farts kept repeating it -- it
became the gospel of old.
That there were many types of knife used no one has ever disagreed
with. Only modern authors like Madison Grant ever called them a patch knife.
The point was and is: it is not an old term.
Many of the blades shown were rehandled and remade from broken blades, some
were local blacksmith made; I still maintain the terminology is a modern
invention. I've seen nothing to change my mind.
John...
"A Bill of Rights is what the people are entitled to against every
government on Earth... and what no just government should
refuse." --Thomas Jefferson
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 08:23:06 -0400
From: "Dennis Miles" <deforge1@bright.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: NOVA
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Did anyone watch the NOVA special last night on the archeological work =
on the La Salle ship "La Belle"
Facinating.. Had some nice nesting kettles with a nesting collander in =
it.. Plenty of trade goods, still packed in the crates.. Great stuff!
D
"Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
http://www.bright.net/~deforge1
"Knowing how is just the beginning"
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Did anyone watch the NOVA special last night on the=20
archeological work on the La Salle ship "La Belle"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>Facinating.. Had some nice nesting kettles with a nesting collander =
in it..=20
Plenty of trade goods, still packed in the crates.. Great stuff!</DIV>
<DIV>D</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>"Abair ach beagan is abair gu math=20
e"<BR> DOUBLE EDGE=20
FORGE<BR> <A=20
href=3D"http://www.bright.net/~deforge1">http://www.bright.net/~deforge1<=
/A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2> "Knowing how is just the=20
beginning"<BR></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
- ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01BFE1A3.40782E00--
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hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 10:42:41 -0400
From: manbear <manbear@netonecom.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: NOVA
- --------------5ECDF538C64B6EC189B365CD
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
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I didn't see it but I checked out the PBS site. Click on the following
link and when you get there click on "Explore The Shipwreck" and then on
the highlighted items on the ship map to see pictures. Great stuff.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/lasalle/
Dennis Miles wrote:
> Did anyone watch the NOVA special last night on the archeological work
> on the La Salle ship "La Belle"Facinating.. Had some nice nesting
> kettles with a nesting collander in it.. Plenty of trade goods, still
> packed in the crates.. Great stuff!D "Abair ach beagan is abair gu
> math e"
> DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
> http://www.bright.net/~deforge1 "Knowing how is just the
> beginning"
- --------------5ECDF538C64B6EC189B365CD
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
I didn't see it but I checked out the PBS site. Click on the following
link and when you get there click on "Explore The Shipwreck" and then on
the highlighted items on the ship map to see pictures. Great stuff.
<p> <a href="http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/lasalle/">http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/lasalle/</a>
<br>
<p>Dennis Miles wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE><style></style>
<font size=-1>Did anyone watch the
NOVA special last night on the archeological work on the La Salle ship
"La Belle"</font>Facinating.. Had some nice nesting kettles with a nesting
collander in it.. Plenty of trade goods, still packed in the crates.. Great
stuff!D <font size=-1>"Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"</font>
<br><font size=-1> DOUBLE
EDGE FORGE</font>
<br><font size=-1> <a href="http://www.bright.net/~deforge1">http://www.bright.net/~deforge1</a></font> <font size=-1> "Knowing
how is just the beginning"</font></blockquote>
</body>
</html>
- --------------5ECDF538C64B6EC189B365CD--
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 09:19:56 -0600
From: Joe Brandl <jbrandl@wyoming.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Hides
I have several green salted deer, elk hides. Deer are $25, elk are $50
Joe
Have a look at our web site @ www.dteworld.com/absarokawesterndesign/
Call us about our tanning, furs & leather and lodgepole furniture 307-455-2440
New leather wildlife coasters and placemats - ther're great!!
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 13:43:33 EDT
From: Huntershorn1@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Hides
how many would I need to make a buckskin shirt?
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 12:32:23 -0700
From: "Roger Lahti" <rtlahti@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Hides
How big are you. <G> A normal sized man, (not one of those metabolism
challenged individuals) will require 4 deer hides. One for the front, one
for the back and one for each arm. One big elk hide will make a front and
back if it is long enough but you will still need a couple deer hides for
the arms. I remain.....
The Four Hide Capt.
YMOS
Capt. Lahti'
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hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 02:31:16 EDT
From: Hawkengun@aol.com
Subject: MtMan-List: When did it end?
Here are some questions that I hope folks feel inspired to respond to....
When did the Rocky Mountain fur trade-era actually end?
Did it end, as Hafen argues (Mountain Men and the Fur Trade, v.1), that the
era essentially ended at the close of the 1840 roundezvous? Although it
seems clear that buffalo robes surpassed beaver plews in economic importance
sometime during the 1840s-50s, trade in beaver and other fine furs never
stopped (continued down to today, or course.) Carson, Williams and others
were leading trapping expeditions into the mountains well after the last
roundezvous. So when should we set the historic "cut-off date" for the era?
Or more specifically, were the trappers that remained in the west still to be
considered "mountain men," or is that a title that should be reserved for the
pre-1840 days? What about men that came west after 1840, hooked-up with
older mountaineers, made their way as trappers and Indian fighters, later
served as scouts for the Army-- can they be accurately called "mountain men"?
John R. Sweet
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hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 11:11:26 -0600
From: Todd Glover <tetontodd@juno.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: When did it end?
John,
The "Rendezvous Period" of the Rocky Mountain fur trade has generally
been considered the "Golden Age" of the trade. Of course the trapping of
furs continued on a smaller scale in the following decades as you
mentioned. The "Robe Trade" in buffalo hides to me is a completely
different venture. Hunting versus trapping.
For our purposes in historical reenactment or anthropological
experimenting if you will, it becomes necessary to assign dates to a
period to enable us to focus our research and portrayals. The "Pre-1840"
rule has been the norm for any years and does offer a logical cut off
date for the Western Fur Trade.
"Teton" Todd D. Glover
Poison River Party
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 13:00:21 -0600
From: Joe Brandl <jbrandl@wyoming.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Hides
3-4 hides, one for front, one for back and if 3rd hide is big enough
and your arms are short enough, one for the sleeves. otherwize one
hide for each sleeve
Joe
Have a look at our web site @ www.absarokawesterndesign.com
Call us about our tanning, furs & leather and lodgepole furniture 307-455-2440
New leather wildlife coasters and placemats - ther're great!!
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: 30 Jun 00 20:12:44 EDT
From: Concho Smith <conchosmith@netscape.net>
Subject: Re: [MtMan-List: Moving]
Todd Glover <tetontodd@juno.com> wrote:
Buck,
If you do end up over here in Utah, you'll have to trap with the Poison
River Party, a fine bunch of men. You'd fit right in. Looking forward to
sharing a fire perhaps.
"Teton" Todd D. Glover
Poison River Party
_______________________________
Todd,
Just talked to him on the cell phone, said he made a few offers on severa=
l
pieces of ground around Payson Utah ! He driving in as we speak, should b=
e on
line later this evening I would think.
Concho.
____________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webm=
ail.netscape.com.
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------------------------------
Date: 30 Jun 00 20:37:29 EDT
From: Concho Smith <conchosmith@netscape.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: Flint doubles
John,
Not only does Buck have a nice original flint side by side made by TWIGG =
in
16ga., he has a nice repro of a West Richards flint side by side in 20ga.=
I
remember a half dozen years ago he got all fired up on them (flint guns) =
was
buying and trading every few weeks on flint anything until he got what he=
wanted. He had more side by side flint parts than Dixie, in fact Jack G. =
[TVM]
traded for a bunch of that suff, giving him repro flint guns in the white=
,
then Buck finished them and sold or trade them.
Concho.
____________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webm=
ail.netscape.com.
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 02:30:12 EDT
From: WSmith4100@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: NOVA
hello the list!
Yes Dennis I saw the show it was pretty interesting. My question is, If
the frenchman couldnt make it on the Tx gulf coastcause of the Indians and
gators and such, how the blazes did they make it all the way up the big
muddy to Canada??
ZZZZZZZZZ
Sleeps Loudly
Wade Smith
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 07:43:43 -0400
From: "Dennis Miles" <deforge1@bright.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: NOVA
Wade
Wondered that myself.... I would like to hear the story of THAT journey...
D
"Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
http://www.bright.net/~deforge1
"Knowing how is just the beginning"
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------------------------------
End of hist_text-digest V1 #582
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