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hist_text-digest         Tuesday, May 30 2000         Volume 01 : Number 567



In this issue:

-áááááá Re: [Dutch ovens again was Re: MtMan-List: Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 ]
-áááááá MtMan-List: canteesn
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil
-áááááá MtMan-List: Mountain Men fishing?
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Men fishing?
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Canteens
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil
-áááááá MtMan-List: Mountain Men Fishing
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Men fishing?
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 30 May 00 17:55:31 EDT
From: Concho Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [Dutch ovens again was Re: MtMan-List: Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 ]

[e-mail] wrote:
Washtahay-
At 01:03 PM 5/27/00 -0500, someone wrote:
    (Several times I thought I was on to something when I found mention of "=
iron
kettles" in the lists, but in every case the weight indicates they could =
not
have been cast iron.  At this point, it seems to me they were called "iro=
n
kettles" to distinguish them from "tin kettles", i.e., sheet iron kettles=
 that
had been dipped in tin to prevent rust.)
  =

LongWalker
- ----------------------

LongWalker,

I've seen what your referring to - very thin kettles, light in weight and=

tinned from what is left of it, in fact there where several at the Museum=
 of
the Fur Trade, Denver Historical Society had one in one of their books an=
d
Buck Conner has one or two that he purchased from Hanson years ago.

Have heard them referred to as "iron kettles" as you have stated, a term =
that
was used but not what we think of it as.

Concho.



____________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webm=
ail.netscape.com.

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 17:05:32 -0500
From: "Frank Fusco" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: canteesn

    I have heard and read about various skins and bladders being used as
canteens. May have been but I cannot imagine that they were very hygienic.
In fact, they may have been as deadly as going without water.  E-coli is not
a modern invention.
Frank


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 16:41:01 -0600
From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil

Jerry,
Just came back from Cache Valley Rendezvous (Park and Drop) it was held up
Black Smiths Fork south east of Logan Utah (Willow Valley) Why is it called
Black Smiths Fork?
120 lb Anvil= 20 Cast Iron pots/keatles ? ya think, maybe
Ole # 718
- ----------
>From: Jerry & Barbara Zaslow <[e-mail]>
>To: [e-mail]
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate
>Date: Sat, May 27, 2000, 10:23 PM
>

>Well looks like you guys want to get into the Dutch Oven authenticity stuff
>again.  Maybe you should think about logic also.
>
>I've said this before (and let me make it clear that this is ONLY my
>opinion) but what would an average mountaineer have carried?  A Dutch Oven,
>a brazier or any other kind of heavy shit like that?  Well if I were there
>back then, that would be the last thing I would carry with me.  Sure some of
>it was out there and available during the time period, but so was a
>submarine, hot air balloon and a bunch of other stuff that would not be
>appropriate in the mountains.
>
>My view is, just because you can document something only proves it was
>there, not that it was common.  I can document a lot of stuff that William
>Drummond Stewart took to Rendezvous in 1837.  Does it mean if everyone wants
>to have something at Rendezvous that he brought, which was uncommon, it
>would be OK?  Only if you think it would be OK for half the people at
>Rendezvous to portray Stewart.
>
>I cook with stuff as simple as possible.  That means with sticks over the
>fire, a small tin boiler and maybe a small folding steel frying pan.  I also
>bring as little as possible.  I've learned that less is more and my horse
>agrees.
>
>Just my 2 cents.
>
>Best Regards,
>
>Jerry (Meriwether) Zaslow #1488
>________________________________________________________________________________
>
>
>>No Sir,
>>
>>The facts have already been established once and for all by the Fort Union
>>Trading Post.  Cast iron artifacts of both types were present in the
>>mountain man period.
>>Walt
>>Park City, Montana
>>
>>
>>
>>> You guys aren't really serious about starting round
>>> two of the dutch oven debacle, are you???
>>>
>>> Tom
>>
>>
>>
>>----------------------
>>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>>
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 19:54:30 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: Mountain Men fishing?

Does anyone recall any primary source references to fur trade-era
mountain men fishing (either angling, suing fish traps or seines, etc.?)

John R. Sweet

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hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 17:14:31 -0700
From: "Roger Lahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil

Ole,

Mind if I wonder a bit about the thought process here a little? <G> I
presume that you are suggesting the idea that the anvil was made into cast
iron pots?

From what little I know about cast iron foundry work, it is a very
specialized process that requires not only special equipment in the form of
a smelter but also just the right fuels to get the metal to melt and pour,
etc. not to mention the special sands and molds that would be required.

I would respectfully submit that such would not have been even remotely
possible anywhere west of the Great River during that time. Only supposition
on my part but I think that is correct. I remain.....

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 3:41 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil


> Jerry,
> Just came back from Cache Valley Rendezvous (Park and Drop) it was held up
> Black Smiths Fork south east of Logan Utah (Willow Valley) Why is it
called
> Black Smiths Fork?
> 120 lb Anvil= 20 Cast Iron pots/keatles ? ya think, maybe
> Ole # 718
> ----------
> >From: Jerry & Barbara Zaslow <[e-mail]>
> >To: [e-mail]
> >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate
> >Date: Sat, May 27, 2000, 10:23 PM
> >
>
> >Well looks like you guys want to get into the Dutch Oven authenticity
stuff
> >again.  Maybe you should think about logic also.
> >
> >I've said this before (and let me make it clear that this is ONLY my
> >opinion) but what would an average mountaineer have carried?  A Dutch
Oven,
> >a brazier or any other kind of heavy shit like that?  Well if I were
there
> >back then, that would be the last thing I would carry with me.  Sure some
of
> >it was out there and available during the time period, but so was a
> >submarine, hot air balloon and a bunch of other stuff that would not be
> >appropriate in the mountains.
> >
> >My view is, just because you can document something only proves it was
> >there, not that it was common.  I can document a lot of stuff that
William
> >Drummond Stewart took to Rendezvous in 1837.  Does it mean if everyone
wants
> >to have something at Rendezvous that he brought, which was uncommon, it
> >would be OK?  Only if you think it would be OK for half the people at
> >Rendezvous to portray Stewart.
> >
> >I cook with stuff as simple as possible.  That means with sticks over the
> >fire, a small tin boiler and maybe a small folding steel frying pan.  I
also
> >bring as little as possible.  I've learned that less is more and my horse
> >agrees.
> >
> >Just my 2 cents.
> >
> >Best Regards,
> >
> >Jerry (Meriwether) Zaslow #1488
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
_____
> >
> >
> >>No Sir,
> >>
> >>The facts have already been established once and for all by the Fort
Union
> >>Trading Post.  Cast iron artifacts of both types were present in the
> >>mountain man period.
> >>Walt
> >>Park City, Montana
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> You guys aren't really serious about starting round
> >>> two of the dutch oven debacle, are you???
> >>>
> >>> Tom
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>----------------------
> >>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >>
> >
> >
> >----------------------
> >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>



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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 17:20:41 -0700
From: "Roger Lahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Men fishing?

John,

The only one I can give right off the top is a reference in Washington
Irving's "Astoria" where it is mentioned that members of the Wilson Price
Hunt expedition were seen fishing along the Snake R. (I think that is where
they were) trying to come up with some fish to stave off starving times.
They were a scattered group at that point and were ranging along the Snake
down in what is now southern Idaho. I believe it was done and mentioned in
the L&C Journals too.

There are innumerable other accounts and of course fish hooks and line were
often found in bills of lading listing goods going west during the MM times
though I don't have them at hand. Perhaps others will provide more
information. I remain....


YMOS
Capt. Lahti'

- ----- Original Message -----
From: <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 4:54 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: Mountain Men fishing?


> Does anyone recall any primary source references to fur trade-era
> mountain men fishing (either angling, suing fish traps or seines, etc.?)
>
> John R. Sweet
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>



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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 17:41:06 -0700
From: "Larry Huber" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canteens

Pat,
    Please contact me off-list with your address.  I need to know if you're
going to the Western Nationals.
    Larry Huber
    [e-mail]
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Pat Quilter <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 10:59 AM
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Canteens


>    According to my reading and understanding of the times, the original
> mountain men disdained the use of canteens, which was noted with some
> surprise by several of the journal writers. Presumably with the freedom to
> roam open country they counted on finding water for the night's camp, as
> would be necessary for the horses as well as the men. Sometimes, finding a
> suitable spot was delayed, which occasioned considerable thirst and
griping.
> Most travelling was done in fairly well-watered areas, where there would
> also be game, and of course they sought beaver country. Only upon making a
> desert crossing would they resort to making up water skins or the like
which
> are also noted as exceptional activities. I'm sorry I can't cite specific
> sources from memory but I think these facts are well known.
>    In these times of course we do not have the freedom to camp anywhere or
> choose the best spots, hence a need for augmenting water supplies.
American
> soldiers were said to prefer the wooden hooped canteens despite their bulk
> because the water stayed cooler then in a metal canteen. Wax-lined gourd
> canteens are nice, although somewhat delicate. If the wax cracks due to
> rough handling the gourd begins to deteriorate which may even create an
> unwholesome condition. I have settled on a tin-lined rev-war style copper
> canteen which holds about 2 quarts and keeps the water a little cooler
since
> I wrapped it in blanketing. I've never had a problem with off-taste,
> although I use a given batch of water within a day or so.
> Yr Ob't S'vt
> Pat Quilter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tom roberts [mailto:[e-mail]]
> Sent: Monday, May 29, 2000 10:45 AM
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: MtMan-List: Canteens
>
>
> In between projects I've wandered through the archives and
> came across a topic of interest.  I thought I would raise this
> again to see if there's any new thinking.  In the "Invoice of Sundry
> Merchandise from the Rocky Mountain Outfit 1836 under charge
> of Fontenelle, Fitzpatrick, & Co." there is a listing for (9) India
> Rubber Canteens and (28) iron bound canteens.  There's not
> much other reference, which causes me to speculate (as did
> earlier list members) that carrying water was just not that important
> to these fellows, who probably stayed very close to what was an
> abundant supply of (then) very clean water.  It is our modern outdoor
> experiences and training and logic which dictates that we carry some
> device for containing drinking water.  Given we make this choice,
> the next question is what shall this device be to remain as correct
> as possible, and I suggest that gourds and bottles would be a lesser
> choice
> due to their fragility.  One would then default to either the military
> copper canteen or a hooped wooden canteen (am I correct to assume
> this is the "iron bound canteen" in the ledger??).  Or is their another
> option not considered?  Skins or bladders are certainly viable but do
> not
> really meet the "durability" test.  Your thoughts?
>
> Tom
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 18:52:22 -0600
From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil

Capt"
Not Even!
Just making a statement as to what they would and could have hauled in on
horse back or by cart.
An anvil would weigh from 60 to 150 pounds and there are journals that
memtion them being hauled into the mountain's. On that note they could have
hauled 20 pots made of cast iron to equal one 120 pound anvil. It's amazing
to me what they hauled in.
If I were traping and trading for beaver I would haul in all sorts of goods
for trade including cast iron.
Ole # 718
- ----------
>From: "Roger Lahti" <[e-mail]>
>To: <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil
>Date: Tue, May 30, 2000, 6:14 PM
>

>Ole,
>
>Mind if I wonder a bit about the thought process here a little? <G> I
>presume that you are suggesting the idea that the anvil was made into cast
>iron pots?
>
>>From what little I know about cast iron foundry work, it is a very
>specialized process that requires not only special equipment in the form of
>a smelter but also just the right fuels to get the metal to melt and pour,
>etc. not to mention the special sands and molds that would be required.
>
>I would respectfully submit that such would not have been even remotely
>possible anywhere west of the Great River during that time. Only supposition
>on my part but I think that is correct. I remain.....
>
>YMOS
>Capt. Lahti'
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
>To: <[e-mail]>
>Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 3:41 PM
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil
>
>
>> Jerry,
>> Just came back from Cache Valley Rendezvous (Park and Drop) it was held up
>> Black Smiths Fork south east of Logan Utah (Willow Valley) Why is it
>called
>> Black Smiths Fork?
>> 120 lb Anvil= 20 Cast Iron pots/keatles ? ya think, maybe
>> Ole # 718
>> ----------
>> >From: Jerry & Barbara Zaslow <[e-mail]>
>> >To: [e-mail]
>> >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate
>> >Date: Sat, May 27, 2000, 10:23 PM
>> >
>>
>> >Well looks like you guys want to get into the Dutch Oven authenticity
>stuff
>> >again.  Maybe you should think about logic also.
>> >
>> >I've said this before (and let me make it clear that this is ONLY my
>> >opinion) but what would an average mountaineer have carried?  A Dutch
>Oven,
>> >a brazier or any other kind of heavy shit like that?  Well if I were
>there
>> >back then, that would be the last thing I would carry with me.  Sure some
>of
>> >it was out there and available during the time period, but so was a
>> >submarine, hot air balloon and a bunch of other stuff that would not be
>> >appropriate in the mountains.
>> >
>> >My view is, just because you can document something only proves it was
>> >there, not that it was common.  I can document a lot of stuff that
>William
>> >Drummond Stewart took to Rendezvous in 1837.  Does it mean if everyone
>wants
>> >to have something at Rendezvous that he brought, which was uncommon, it
>> >would be OK?  Only if you think it would be OK for half the people at
>> >Rendezvous to portray Stewart.
>> >
>> >I cook with stuff as simple as possible.  That means with sticks over the
>> >fire, a small tin boiler and maybe a small folding steel frying pan.  I
>also
>> >bring as little as possible.  I've learned that less is more and my horse
>> >agrees.
>> >
>> >Just my 2 cents.
>> >
>> >Best Regards,
>> >
>> >Jerry (Meriwether) Zaslow #1488
>>
>>___________________________________________________________________________
>_____
>> >
>> >
>> >>No Sir,
>> >>
>> >>The facts have already been established once and for all by the Fort
>Union
>> >>Trading Post.  Cast iron artifacts of both types were present in the
>> >>mountain man period.
>> >>Walt
>> >>Park City, Montana
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> You guys aren't really serious about starting round
>> >>> two of the dutch oven debacle, are you???
>> >>>
>> >>> Tom
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>----------------------
>> >>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >----------------------
>> >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>> >
>>
>> ----------------------
>> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>>
>
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 19:20:22 -0600
From: "Terry R. Koenig" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Mountain Men Fishing

John:

Wyeth had a covered fishing rod (whatever that is). See "The Correspondence
and Journals of Capt. Nathaniel J. Wyeth 1831 -36" (p 168) ed. by F. G.
Young, Arno Press, NY 1973.

Traveling with Wyeth in 1834 was the naturalist John Kirk Townsend. In the
book "Across the Rockies to the Columbia" by John K. Townsend, Univ. of Neb.
Press, 1987, p. 99, noted:

"the stream contains an abundance of excellent trout. Some of these are
enormous, and very fine eating. They bite eagerly at a grasshopper or
minnow, but the largest fish are shy, and the sportsman requires to be
carefully concealed in order to take them. We have here none of the fine
tackle, jointed rods, reels, and silkworm gut of the accomplished city
sportsman; we have only a piece of common cord, and a hook seized on with
half-hitches, with a willow rod cut on the banks of the stream; but with
this rough equipment we take as many trout as we wish, and who could do
more, even with all the curious contrivances of old Izaac Walton or
Christopher North?"

From the diary of Wm. Ashley, May 27, 1825 - "during he last two days we
have lived on fish we caught with hooks & lines  we find them of an
excellent kind of a different Speeces to any that I ever before have seen
similar in appearance to our pike. They have but few scales or bones, those
of which we caught were from one to two feet long the[y] appared quite a
curiosity to the Indians - I shewed them how they were caught & gave Each
one a hook & line with which they were much pleased. "The West of William H.
Ashley 1822 - 1838" ed. by Dale L. Morgan, Old West Publishing Co., 1964, p.
114.

Terry R. Koenig


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 19:02:48 -0700
From: "Roger Lahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil

Ole,

OK pard, got ya! Way it was worded I was thinking otherwise. I see the logic
in your response below and don't have much trouble seeing that sort of thing
being done either. Now back to our regularly scheduled program. <G> I
remain.....

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 5:52 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil


> Capt"
> Not Even!
> Just making a statement as to what they would and could have hauled in on
> horse back or by cart.
> An anvil would weigh from 60 to 150 pounds and there are journals that
> memtion them being hauled into the mountain's. On that note they could
have
> hauled 20 pots made of cast iron to equal one 120 pound anvil. It's
amazing
> to me what they hauled in.
> If I were traping and trading for beaver I would haul in all sorts of
goods
> for trade including cast iron.
> Ole # 718
> ----------
> >From: "Roger Lahti" <[e-mail]>
> >To: <[e-mail]>
> >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil
> >Date: Tue, May 30, 2000, 6:14 PM
> >
>
> >Ole,
> >
> >Mind if I wonder a bit about the thought process here a little? <G> I
> >presume that you are suggesting the idea that the anvil was made into
cast
> >iron pots?
> >
> >>From what little I know about cast iron foundry work, it is a very
> >specialized process that requires not only special equipment in the form
of
> >a smelter but also just the right fuels to get the metal to melt and
pour,
> >etc. not to mention the special sands and molds that would be required.
> >
> >I would respectfully submit that such would not have been even remotely
> >possible anywhere west of the Great River during that time. Only
supposition
> >on my part but I think that is correct. I remain.....
> >
> >YMOS
> >Capt. Lahti'
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
> >To: <[e-mail]>
> >Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 3:41 PM
> >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil
> >
> >
> >> Jerry,
> >> Just came back from Cache Valley Rendezvous (Park and Drop) it was held
up
> >> Black Smiths Fork south east of Logan Utah (Willow Valley) Why is it
> >called
> >> Black Smiths Fork?
> >> 120 lb Anvil= 20 Cast Iron pots/keatles ? ya think, maybe
> >> Ole # 718
> >> ----------
> >> >From: Jerry & Barbara Zaslow <[e-mail]>
> >> >To: [e-mail]
> >> >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate
> >> >Date: Sat, May 27, 2000, 10:23 PM
> >> >
> >>
> >> >Well looks like you guys want to get into the Dutch Oven authenticity
> >stuff
> >> >again.  Maybe you should think about logic also.
> >> >
> >> >I've said this before (and let me make it clear that this is ONLY my
> >> >opinion) but what would an average mountaineer have carried?  A Dutch
> >Oven,
> >> >a brazier or any other kind of heavy shit like that?  Well if I were
> >there
> >> >back then, that would be the last thing I would carry with me.  Sure
some
> >of
> >> >it was out there and available during the time period, but so was a
> >> >submarine, hot air balloon and a bunch of other stuff that would not
be
> >> >appropriate in the mountains.
> >> >
> >> >My view is, just because you can document something only proves it was
> >> >there, not that it was common.  I can document a lot of stuff that
> >William
> >> >Drummond Stewart took to Rendezvous in 1837.  Does it mean if everyone
> >wants
> >> >to have something at Rendezvous that he brought, which was uncommon,
it
> >> >would be OK?  Only if you think it would be OK for half the people at
> >> >Rendezvous to portray Stewart.
> >> >
> >> >I cook with stuff as simple as possible.  That means with sticks over
the
> >> >fire, a small tin boiler and maybe a small folding steel frying pan.
I
> >also
> >> >bring as little as possible.  I've learned that less is more and my ho
rse
> >> >agrees.
> >> >
> >> >Just my 2 cents.
> >> >
> >> >Best Regards,
> >> >
> >> >Jerry (Meriwether) Zaslow #1488
> >>
>
>>__________________________________________________________________________
_
> >_____
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >>No Sir,
> >> >>
> >> >>The facts have already been established once and for all by the Fort
> >Union
> >> >>Trading Post.  Cast iron artifacts of both types were present in the
> >> >>mountain man period.
> >> >>Walt
> >> >>Park City, Montana
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>> You guys aren't really serious about starting round
> >> >>> two of the dutch oven debacle, are you???
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Tom
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>----------------------
> >> >>hist_text list info:
http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >----------------------
> >> >hist_text list info:
http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >> >
> >>
> >> ----------------------
> >> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >----------------------
> >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>



- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 20:27:24 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Bill Cunningham)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Men fishing?

For one, in 1843, when W>D> Stewart took all his sporting buddies and a
newspaper man along on a hunting trip to the Wind Rivers, they had fishing
tackle with them and caught fish for supper from Fremont Lake using bait,
not flies. A little out of the period, but it was nothing new.
- -----Original Message-----
From: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 5:56 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: Mountain Men fishing?


>Does anyone recall any primary source references to fur trade-era
>mountain men fishing (either angling, suing fish traps or seines, etc.?)
>
>John R. Sweet
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 20:29:37 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Bill Cunningham)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil

Ole, I believe Blacksmith Fork got it's name well after the fur trade
period. Of course, there was a rendezvous during the trade just to the north
of the canyon mouth by what the pioneers called White Rock.
Bill C
- -----Original Message-----
From: Ole B. Jensen <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 6:56 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil


>Capt"
>Not Even!
>Just making a statement as to what they would and could have hauled in on
>horse back or by cart.
>An anvil would weigh from 60 to 150 pounds and there are journals that
>memtion them being hauled into the mountain's. On that note they could have
>hauled 20 pots made of cast iron to equal one 120 pound anvil. It's amazing
>to me what they hauled in.
>If I were traping and trading for beaver I would haul in all sorts of goods
>for trade including cast iron.
>Ole # 718
>----------
>>From: "Roger Lahti" <[e-mail]>
>>To: <[e-mail]>
>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil
>>Date: Tue, May 30, 2000, 6:14 PM
>>
>
>>Ole,
>>
>>Mind if I wonder a bit about the thought process here a little? <G> I
>>presume that you are suggesting the idea that the anvil was made into cast
>>iron pots?
>>
>>>From what little I know about cast iron foundry work, it is a very
>>specialized process that requires not only special equipment in the form
of
>>a smelter but also just the right fuels to get the metal to melt and pour,
>>etc. not to mention the special sands and molds that would be required.
>>
>>I would respectfully submit that such would not have been even remotely
>>possible anywhere west of the Great River during that time. Only
supposition
>>on my part but I think that is correct. I remain.....
>>
>>YMOS
>>Capt. Lahti'
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
>>To: <[e-mail]>
>>Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 3:41 PM
>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil
>>
>>
>>> Jerry,
>>> Just came back from Cache Valley Rendezvous (Park and Drop) it was held
up
>>> Black Smiths Fork south east of Logan Utah (Willow Valley) Why is it
>>called
>>> Black Smiths Fork?
>>> 120 lb Anvil= 20 Cast Iron pots/keatles ? ya think, maybe
>>> Ole # 718
>>> ----------
>>> >From: Jerry & Barbara Zaslow <[e-mail]>
>>> >To: [e-mail]
>>> >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate
>>> >Date: Sat, May 27, 2000, 10:23 PM
>>> >
>>>
>>> >Well looks like you guys want to get into the Dutch Oven authenticity
>>stuff
>>> >again.  Maybe you should think about logic also.
>>> >
>>> >I've said this before (and let me make it clear that this is ONLY my
>>> >opinion) but what would an average mountaineer have carried?  A Dutch
>>Oven,
>>> >a brazier or any other kind of heavy shit like that?  Well if I were
>>there
>>> >back then, that would be the last thing I would carry with me.  Sure
some
>>of
>>> >it was out there and available during the time period, but so was a
>>> >submarine, hot air balloon and a bunch of other stuff that would not be
>>> >appropriate in the mountains.
>>> >
>>> >My view is, just because you can document something only proves it was
>>> >there, not that it was common.  I can document a lot of stuff that
>>William
>>> >Drummond Stewart took to Rendezvous in 1837.  Does it mean if everyone
>>wants
>>> >to have something at Rendezvous that he brought, which was uncommon, it
>>> >would be OK?  Only if you think it would be OK for half the people at
>>> >Rendezvous to portray Stewart.
>>> >
>>> >I cook with stuff as simple as possible.  That means with sticks over
the
>>> >fire, a small tin boiler and maybe a small folding steel frying pan.  I
>>also
>>> >bring as little as possible.  I've learned that less is more and my
horse
>>> >agrees.
>>> >
>>> >Just my 2 cents.
>>> >
>>> >Best Regards,
>>> >
>>> >Jerry (Meriwether) Zaslow #1488
>>>
>>>_________________________________________________________________________
__
>>_____
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >>No Sir,
>>> >>
>>> >>The facts have already been established once and for all by the Fort
>>Union
>>> >>Trading Post.  Cast iron artifacts of both types were present in the
>>> >>mountain man period.
>>> >>Walt
>>> >>Park City, Montana
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>> You guys aren't really serious about starting round
>>> >>> two of the dutch oven debacle, are you???
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Tom
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>----------------------
>>> >>hist_text list info:
http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >----------------------
>>> >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>>> >
>>>
>>> ----------------------
>>> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>----------------------
>>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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------------------------------

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