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hist_text-digest        Tuesday, March 21 2000        Volume 01 : Number 505



In this issue:

-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Beaver hats
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Dogs?
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Dogs?
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Dogs?
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Dogs?
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Scoria Rock
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Dogs?
-áááááá MtMan-List: Re: trousers or leggings
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Ruxton/vernacular/What about Osborne Russell?
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Beaver hats
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Beaver hats
-áááááá MtMan-List: www.lafete.org
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: www.lafete.org
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Scoria Rock
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Scoria Rock
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Dogs?
-áááááá [Re: MtMan-List: Dogs?]
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Dogs & mountain lions
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: David Jackson
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Dogs?
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Dogs?]
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Scoria Rock
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Linen
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Linen

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Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 07:44:09 -0600
From: "northwoods" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver hats

- -----Original Message-----
From: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: March 20, 2000 9:28 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: Beaver hats
> When pressed hard, the barbs interlock
>with each other, making a solid fabric.  This is felting.  (I always
thought
>they shaved the pelt to make the hat.)  Once felted the pelt was no longer
>furry and was ready to be made into a hat.


I think the hair is shaved off of the pelt in making a felt hat.

>I had never heard this.  Furs that had been worn by Indians (called First
>Nations people on this web site) were called "coat beaver."  After wearing
a
>year or more, the longer, coarser hairs had been worn off and these furs
>brought in a high price in the fur trade.

The hatter began the process of making felt hats by first using his thumb
agains a dull blade of a knife to pull all of the long guard hairs. Any furs
that this process had already been through would have been worth more money.
After the guard hairs were pulled the soft short fur was shaved off with a
crescent shaped knife like a leatherworker uses. Then an amount of fur was
weighed out which was enough to make a hat. In order to get the barbs of the
hair to interloc, each pile was place on a table that was enclosed on three
sides. Then he took a tool that looked like a bow, and he would repeatedley
"twang" the string onto the pile and through it and the vibration would
cause the hairs to lay parrallel to eachother and the barbs to interloc.
Then the pile was shaped and flattened into a batt. An important part of the
process was to boil the batts and beat them with a club which caused the
fiber to shrink and become compacted, then they went to the man who blocked
and shaped the hats, and dyed them.

northwoods





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Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 08:03:14 -0600
From: "northwoods" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dogs?

- -----Original Message-----
From: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: March 20, 2000 11:11 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dogs?

>I don't claim to be an expert on any kind of hunting, trapping or history,
>but I sure have a lot of interest in the afore mentioned.  I have no doubt
>that an exceptionally good dog would be a real asset on a 1803-1850
trapping
>expedition, and the documnets prove that they were present, at least
>occaisionally--possibly regularly.


For what its worth I agree with you on the above statement. Its a big jump
to say  that they were very common in the trapping expeditions.

northwoods


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Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 08:06:09 -0600
From: "northwoods" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dogs?

- -----Original Message-----
From: Matt P <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: March 20, 2000 11:39 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dogs?



>I don't remember exactly which one I saw it in (Dog Fancy, Dog&Kennel, ?),
>but I will pick one up Wednesday (tomorrow), and will be able to tell you
>about it then.
>Matt in Texas


Matt, could you post some of the info, from the article if and when you
recieve it, as Buck suggested?

northwoods




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Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 08:11:07 -0600
From: "northwoods" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dogs?

- -----Original Message-----
From: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: March 21, 2000 1:23 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dogs?


>northwoods---
>got a few of them cat critters in my traps when i was a kid but never one
>as big as yours---and if i had a dog with me i sure wouldnt want to try
>to seperate them---

Your absolutely rite Hawk. If I would have brought the dog I had at the time
(which there has never lived a dog that was a better companion) I would have
had a hard time telling him to "sit-stay". That cat could have reaked havoc,
and I am sure he knew what a dog was as this country is full of hound
hunters that chase the bear,coyote,cats incessantly.

>and I bet when you saw that cat in your trap you sure
>didnt say    "Nice Kitty"  especially if you didnt have a 22 rifle with

22. pistol was the coupdegrace, I have some great photos of that cat in the
trap.

northwoods


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Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 08:18:07 -0600
From: "northwoods" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dogs?

- -----Original Message-----
From: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: March 21, 2000 1:23 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dogs?


Aahh, the merits of a well trained dog.... how nice a thing it is to at
least have the priveledge of owning at least one in a persons lifetime.

northwoods
>
>the dog you are speaking of does exist but not much in our todays
>society---takes a lot of time and trouble to train a dog and have him do
>exactly what you want---you almost have to have him with you 24 hrs a day
>for the first 3 or 4 years of his life---and when i say with you i mean
>just that---
>
>my brother has a springer spannel that he has had since a pup---dog goes
>everwhere with him including the office---float trips on the river and
>when he goes uptown to a restrant my brother tells his dog to sit by the
>door of the cafe or to stay in the bed of the truck----that is just what
>he does-----and at the door you can pet the dog in the truck dont get
>near it you get a lot of teeth and are not made very welcome---brother
>doesnt roll up the windows and tells his dog to watch the truck---even
>leaves his keys in it---"one thing for sure if you are not family you
>wont be getting in that truck and live---
>
>the point being made is yes a well trained dog will work but one that is
>less than 100% isnt---especially on a trapline---I had a couple and only
>one was ever allowed to go with me---would never get in a trap or go near
>a set---when i needed to reset i would tell it to sit off away from the
>trap then set it and bait it and go on ---and unless i would sick it on
>something it would not rush up to something caught in the trap---dog was
>a lot of help with ki-dogs on a drag---would get me close enough to know
>wher the trap and ki-dog was then i would go on from ther without the
>dog---set my pack basket down and tell the dog to guard the baskey---and
>i would fo my thing---
>
>YMHOSANT
>        =+=
>    "HAWK"
>Michael Pierce
>854 Glenfield Dr.             (Home of "Old Grizz"  products)    (C)
>Palm Harbor Florida     34684        Phone:    [phone]
>e-mail:   [e-mail]  web
>site:http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce
>
>________________________________________________________________
>YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
>Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
>Try it today - there's no risk!  For your FREE software, visit:
>http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


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Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 08:24:29 -0600
From: Jim Lindberg <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Scoria Rock

There are old catlanite digs in Wisconsin too.

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Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 08:47:51 -0600
From: "Glenn Darilek" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dogs?

Angela Gottfred <[e-mail]> wrote:

> . . . Period artwork from the Canadian fur trade shows a wide variety of
dogs, many of them
> surprisingly small.  . .

Please don't tell me the small dogs were the sissified yipping house dogs I
see at many rendezvous.

Glenn Darilek
Iron Burner


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Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 09:06:35 -0500
From: "Henry B. Crawford" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: trousers or leggings

By leggings, I assume you mean the ones that come over the thigh and attach
to a thong or belt at the waist.  I would recommend trousers.  Leggings are
nice and comfortable, especially in warm weather (I have a brain tanned
pair, myself) and historically correct for the fur trade era, but trousers
give you much more versatility (they are also historically correct).  They
allow you to do a broader range of impressions where leggings may restrict
you to a narrower range.  If you want to do something beyond the fur trade
era, the trousers will allow that flexibility.  Many of us "do" other
impressions in addition ot the fur trade.  For some of my impressions my
buckskin trousers fit in much better than my leggings ever would.  If you
have to make a choice, go with the trousers.  If not, then do both.  As to
which were most common, that's difficult to answer.  All I can suggest is
that they were both quite common.  Either choice would be historically
valid, since there is enough evidence to support the wide use of both
types.

Cheers,
HBC

>I'm trying to decide whether to go the legging route
>with wool breeches, or just get a pair of brain tan trousers. As you
>mentioned off line, knee britches, long wool stockings, with brain tan
>leggings over all, would seem to be the best way to go. Ya don't havta git
>nakid to dry out!   (preddy gud vernakular...huh?) lol
>Ymos,
>Steve



**********************************
Henry B. Crawford
Curator of History
Museum of Texas Tech University
Box 43191
Lubbock, TX  79409-3191
[e-mail]
806/742-2442  FAX [phone]
Website: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
***  Living History . . . Because It's There  ***



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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 08:23:46 -0700
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ruxton/vernacular/What about Osborne Russell?

What about the place in Russell's journal where he quotes Major Joe Meek giving
his account of an encounter with the Blackfeet?  Ya gotta admit,  Russell  was
there.  I also recall in the dim recesses of my memories about the early oregon
trail folks commenting on the peculiar speech of the mountaineers.  Then there's
the St Louis newspaper account of Black Harris and his "putrified" forest.  I
think lots of those old boys had some fun putting-on the pilgrims alright and
you all can take it or leave it...but I will prefer a man with a few extra
syllables in his words everytime over them carnsarned book-thumpers!  Like Mark
Twain says, "It's a poor mind that can think of only one way to spell a word."



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Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 12:13:55 -0800
From: "Roger Lahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver hats

Dick,

I tried to open the url you sent and something ain't right. Won't open. I
remain....

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'
> www.lafete.org/Ft.e/Ae_INDX.htm




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Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 14:12:53 -0600
From: Jim Lindberg <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver hats

I had the same trouble:

Try:

http://www.lafete.org/Ft_e/Ae_INDX.htm

or

http://www.lafete.org/

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 14:08:30 -0700
From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: www.lafete.org

Ho the list,

Great site, but I'd be careful when thinking that all these songs are fur
trade period.

I have a problem envisioning Colter, Glass et al singing and dancing to "Le
Boogie Woogie".

Could be a lot of fun, especially after a few pots of Taos Lightnin.
Probably need to keep someone sober, just in case the others decide that the
"in" is the fire pit. Some of my hunting party have come close to being
victims of the "Wild Elk Dance", a similar kind of exuberant nonsense.

Lou Sickler
Colorado Territory

> -----Original Message-----
> From:    Jim Lindberg [SMTP:[e-mail]]
> Sent:    Tuesday, March 21, 2000 1:13 PM
> To:    [e-mail]
> Subject:    Re: MtMan-List: Beaver hats
>
> I had the same trouble:
>
> Try:
>
> http://www.lafete.org/Ft_e/Ae_INDX.htm
>
> or
>
> http://www.lafete.org/
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

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Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 15:22:06 -0700
From: "Walt Foster" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: www.lafete.org

One of the musicians, a professor from the Montana State University system
at Billings, Montana gave a music presentation of the period.  He said a few
tunes were popular and played regularly.  Different songs were sung to
various tunes.  This country was pretty harsh on drinkers at the time.
Being hungover and alert to danger do not go hand in hand.
Walt
Park City, Montana



- ----- Original Message -----
From: <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 2:08 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: www.lafete.org


> Ho the list,
>
> Great site, but I'd be careful when thinking that all these songs are fur
> trade period.
>
> I have a problem envisioning Colter, Glass et al singing and dancing to
"Le
> Boogie Woogie".
>
> Could be a lot of fun, especially after a few pots of Taos Lightnin.
> Probably need to keep someone sober, just in case the others decide that
the
> "in" is the fire pit. Some of my hunting party have come close to being
> victims of the "Wild Elk Dance", a similar kind of exuberant nonsense.
>
> Lou Sickler
> Colorado Territory
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jim Lindberg [SMTP:[e-mail]]
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 1:13 PM
> > To: [e-mail]
> > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver hats
> >
> > I had the same trouble:
> >
> > Try:
> >
> > http://www.lafete.org/Ft_e/Ae_INDX.htm
> >
> > or
> >
> > http://www.lafete.org/
> >
> > ----------------------
> > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:55:10 -0600
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Scoria Rock

Washtahay-
At 08:24 AM 3/21/00 -0600, you wrote:
>There are old catlanite digs in Wisconsin too.
>
    Its been a while since I worked it, but from what I recall the Wisconsin
stone was darker-almost a maroon, and harder/more brittle vs. stone from
the Pipestone quarries.
    Having said that, got any of the Wisconsin stone to trade?   I just
acquired an old pipe that appears to be from that stone and would like to
make a smoking copy.  For that matter, I am always willing to trade for
Catlinite, soapstone, steatite, etc-about anything I can carve a pipe from.
LongWalker c. du B.


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Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 18:13:40 -0600
From: "northwoods" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Scoria Rock

- -----Original Message-----
From: Jim Lindberg <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: March 21, 2000 8:26 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Scoria Rock


>There are old catlanite digs in Wisconsin too.


Where? I take a particular interest in this sort of thing.

northwoods



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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 19:33:19 -0600
From: "northwoods" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dogs?

- -----Original Message-----
From: Walt Foster <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: March 20, 2000 10:36 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dogs?


> Bobcats are a different story.  I hunted them with a bow and arrow in the
50s and was
>successful as long as I hunted alone.


You sure make it sound easy  Walt. How many people do you think could
succesfully hunt bobcat with a stickbow? I could have shot one once with my
recurve, but I chose not to. We have cougar where I live. The neighbor lady
a mile down the road had a female with two young ones under her bird feeder.
My dad saw one only a few hundred yards from my doorstep last year. I have
had numerous locals tell me of sightings. The Department of Natural
Resources here in WI denies that there are any in the state but that isn't
the case.
I am intimately familiar with hound hunting. Compared to other methods it is
easy as far as I am concerened. Exspecially with modern technology like
radio tracking equipment.
Tell me about some of these bobcats you shot with the bow. I would like to
hear the details and circumstances.

northwoods


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------------------------------

Date: 21 Mar 00 21:07:07 EST
From: Concho Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: [Re: MtMan-List: Dogs?]

[e-mail] (Bill Cunningham) wrote:
Check out the mountain man camp journals the years they wintered in Cache=

(Willow) Valley. When Black Harris and Fitzpatrick headed out to St. Loui=
s
in February, they had a dog with them (they later killed it in a very
grizzly fashion and ate it).
- ------------------------------------------------------
Hey Bill,
There's been a mess of dog replies, have we gone that direction !!!

You talking about Black Harris and Fitzpatrick eating dog, ask Buck about=
 the
time him and Butcher York where at the "Holy Smokes" in Browning MT., and=

asked to stay for the evening events with about 1200 native americans. =

Seems some ladies bring out several dogs and the old chief pokes them a
little, make his selection. After a time Butcher says they hear a dog rai=
sing
hell outside the building, then it get still, a few hours later he's serv=
ed as
the main meat in a stew. According to Butcher, Buck damn near got as gree=
n as
the stew when eating his meal.

I've asked him about it and he still looks a little green years later whe=
n he
thinks about it.

Later
Concho.

____________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webm=
ail.netscape.com.

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Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 20:14:34 -0600
From: "Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dogs & mountain lions

Don't let so called experts tell you there are no big cats pratically =
anywhere, particularly a state like Wisconsin.  There are more cats , =
including mountain lions, in unlikely places than many people realize.  =
For instance....about 3 years ago a friend of mine shot a 130 lb =
mountain lion from his deer stand in Bosque (bos-key) County, Texas, =
which is the county across the Brazos River from my county, which =
borders Tarrant County...Ft Worth.  A mountain lion was spotted =
repeatedly in Tarrant County this fall.  In fact, it ate a couple of =
dogs and had people afraid to let their kids play in the yard.  This cat =
was widely presumed to be an escaped or freed pet and was never =
captured.  About 5 years ago (before I moved here) another lion was =
captured on the very street where I live only about four blocks from my =
house and  was also presumed to be somebody's pet.  The neighbors said =
they couldn't kick their dogs outside.  The whined and groveled every =
night. =20
YMOS
Lanney Ratcliff

- ----- Original Message -----=20
From: northwoods <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 7:33 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dogs?


>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Walt Foster <[e-mail]>
> To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
> Date: March 20, 2000 10:36 PM
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dogs?
>=20
>=20
> > Bobcats are a different story.  I hunted them with a bow and arrow =
in the
> 50s and was
> >successful as long as I hunted alone.
>=20
>=20
> You sure make it sound easy  Walt. How many people do you think could
> succesfully hunt bobcat with a stickbow? I could have shot one once =
with my
> recurve, but I chose not to. We have cougar where I live. The neighbor =
lady
> a mile down the road had a female with two young ones under her bird =
feeder.
> My dad saw one only a few hundred yards from my doorstep last year. I =
have
> had numerous locals tell me of sightings. The Department of Natural
> Resources here in WI denies that there are any in the state but that =
isn't
> the case.
> I am intimately familiar with hound hunting. Compared to other methods =
it is
> easy as far as I am concerened. Exspecially with modern technology =
like
> radio tracking equipment.
> Tell me about some of these bobcats you shot with the bow. I would =
like to
> hear the details and circumstances.
>=20
> northwoods
>=20
>=20
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: =
http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 02:25:01 GMT
From: "Bill Jackson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: David Jackson

Thanks Tetontodd, good luck on being a pilgram
Madjack

>From: [e-mail]
>Reply-To: [e-mail]
>To: [e-mail]
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: David Jackson
>Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 19:03:44 -0700
>
>Mad Jack,
>
>I refer you to "David E. Jackson, Field Captain of the Rocky Mountain Fur
>Trade." by Vivian L. Talbot. ISBN: 1-886402-01-9
>This is one of the few and best works on Davy Jackson.
>
>
>"Teton" Todd D. Glover
>Poison River Party Pilgrim
>
>________________________________________________________________
>YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
>Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
>Try it today - there's no risk!  For your FREE software, visit:
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>
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______________________________________________________
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Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 19:48:45 -0700
From: "Walt Foster" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dogs?

Hello northwoods,
Over the years fellow archers have said that I made shooting bows up to 104#
seem effortless.  But let me tell you it seem awfully hard to pull that bow
back for more than 40 shots in a short period of time.  For years my all
around general purpose straight long bow was 71# at my draw length.  I shot
a 86# bow to tune up for the 104#.  I shoot a 58# straight long bow now.  I
am considering a 51# bow as I am at that age where I am growing older in the
body way faster than in the I think I can, in my mind.  I shot those 3 bob
cats with a 54# bow from 1955-1957.  About 4 miles behind me to the north is
the Yellowstone Bowman archery club.  I helped build that range.  Above that
range 3 rimrock steps run along for miles.  To the west Valley Creek.  To
the northwest is the famed Canyon Creek where the Nez Perce avoided serious
trouble with a stand off action near the mouth of the main canyon.  And the
flat top butte south of the range is mentioned in Two Leggings book as the
gathering of the last Crow war party.  In the winter of 1954 my father came
home with 5 bob cats he had shot for the bounty.  I got a good idea of what
the bob cat tracks looked like in the snow.  The next year I would go out to
the range when it snowed.  I would climb up on the rimrocks and try to cut
sign.  Once I had a track established.  I would go up on the rimrock above
the one carrying the cat tracks.  From there I would look and move.  Lock
and move.  Never moving faster than I could see below and ahead of me.  I
got one the first year.  It took 4 tries before I got my first bob cat
during the first year.  I got my second and third bob cat with a bow in 56
and the last with my brother along and one of his friends.  The next snow
when I went out was covered with boot tracks.  My brother and his friends
had been there ahead of me and never asked me to go along.  I went and got
started hunting elk.  I never thought much about it that is taking a bob cat
with a bow.  I love the excitement of the hunt and as I already had 2 deer
under my belt.  I never thought about buck fever.  Hunting was way better
then.  If I missed I could always go after the next one.  The best hunting
since the time of the mountain men reoccurred after WWII up to 1960 and has
dramatically gone down hill ever since.  At least in my experience.
Walt
Park City, Montana




- ----- Original Message -----
From: "northwoods" <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 6:33 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dogs?


>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Walt Foster <[e-mail]>
> To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
> Date: March 20, 2000 10:36 PM
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dogs?
>
>
> > Bobcats are a different story.  I hunted them with a bow and arrow in
the
> 50s and was
> >successful as long as I hunted alone.
>
>
> You sure make it sound easy  Walt. How many people do you think could
> succesfully hunt bobcat with a stickbow? I could have shot one once with
my
> recurve, but I chose not to. We have cougar where I live. The neighbor
lady
> a mile down the road had a female with two young ones under her bird
feeder.
> My dad saw one only a few hundred yards from my doorstep last year. I have
> had numerous locals tell me of sightings. The Department of Natural
> Resources here in WI denies that there are any in the state but that isn't
> the case.
> I am intimately familiar with hound hunting. Compared to other methods it
is
> easy as far as I am concerened. Exspecially with modern technology like
> radio tracking equipment.
> Tell me about some of these bobcats you shot with the bow. I would like to
> hear the details and circumstances.
>
> northwoods
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 19:53:42 -0700
From: "Walt Foster" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dogs?]

Concho, I am familar with that neck of the woods.  The Cheyenne also eat dog
as do the Sioux.  The Crows do not.  What happened to the meats meat.....I
have eaten raw kidney with my Cheyenne friends because they claim it
prevents hangover.  There are somethings I won't eat.  Ain't been that
hungry yet.
Walt
Park City, Montana


- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Concho Smith" <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 7:07 PM
Subject: [Re: MtMan-List: Dogs?]


[e-mail] (Bill Cunningham) wrote:
Check out the mountain man camp journals the years they wintered in Cache
(Willow) Valley. When Black Harris and Fitzpatrick headed out to St. Louis
in February, they had a dog with them (they later killed it in a very
grizzly fashion and ate it).
- ------------------------------------------------------
Hey Bill,
There's been a mess of dog replies, have we gone that direction !!!

You talking about Black Harris and Fitzpatrick eating dog, ask Buck about
the
time him and Butcher York where at the "Holy Smokes" in Browning MT., and
asked to stay for the evening events with about 1200 native americans.
Seems some ladies bring out several dogs and the old chief pokes them a
little, make his selection. After a time Butcher says they hear a dog
raising
hell outside the building, then it get still, a few hours later he's served
as
the main meat in a stew. According to Butcher, Buck damn near got as green
as
the stew when eating his meal.

I've asked him about it and he still looks a little green years later when
he
thinks about it.

Later
Concho.

____________________________________________________________________
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Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 21:07:04 -0600
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Scoria Rock

Washtahay-
At 06:13 PM 3/21/00 -0600, you wrote:
>>There are old catlanite digs in Wisconsin too.
>
>
>Where? I take a particular interest in this sort of thing.
>
    Take a look in the south end of the Barren Hills, between Canton and
Chetek (probably spelled that wrong).  Its a decent stone, but not as "red"
as the stone in MN.  The stone is also found, and was quarried in
prehistoric and historic times in OH and IL.  There is a rumor of a small
deposit in IA also.
LongWalker c. du B.


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 00:31:14 -0500
From: tom roberts <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Linen

Oh well, I had to ask.  If you ever think of any possible
source of this information I would be most grateful
for any lead.

Thanks,

Tom

[e-mail] wrote:

> There you have me....my expertise lies in certain areas of Native American
> clothing.
>
> Linda Holley
>
> tom roberts wrote:
>
> > Linda,
> >
> > You seem to be quite knowledgable about clothing.  Do you
> > know what weight and weave of linen garment fabric
> > would have been available to the 1820 fur trade in St. Louis?
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Tom
> >
> > ----------------------
> > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 22:13:29 -0800
From: "Roger Lahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Linen

Tom,

Since we aren't getting anything authoritative out of this bunch, I'll
venture some ideas. In ML magazine this last issue is a nice article about
the Rev. Dodderidge (sic) who was a traveling preacher back around 1790's if
I remember the dates. That article has some quotes from his book of his
recollections of the times. He mentioned what common folks were wearing and
from what I remember the linen was fairly course and not at all like fine
Irish linens, etc. He also mentioned that it was common to wear linsy woolsy
which was linen threads up and down and wool threads back and forth through
the fabric. He commented that this was much warmer than straight linen. I
don't know if true linsy woolsy is available any more. You can get a linen
cotton version which is heavy enough for a hunting shirt or pants but it
won't be as warm.

Hope this helps a bit. There doesn't seem to be much information out there
about weights of fabric, you just sorta have to speculate a bit about what
would work best for whatever type of garment your making within the
limitations of still available fabrics. I found out recently that the sails
on the USS Constitution were made of linen canvas and it would have been
fairly heavy and suitable for tentage and  heavy garments like pantaloons
and knee britches. Probably about the same weight as cotton canvas today.
About all I have to offer. I remain.....

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'



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