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hist_text-digest       Thursday, March 16 2000       Volume 01 : Number 498



In this issue:

-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Advice for a beginner
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Primitive Indian Dresses
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Primitive Indian Dresses
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Advice for a beginner
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Advice for a beginner
-áááááá MtMan-List: Thanks
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Advice for a beginner
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Primitive Indian Dresses
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Advice for a beginner
-áááááá MtMan-List: Test Message
-áááááá MtMan-List: Beaver Trap Prices
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Elk Pants
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Primitive Indian Dresses
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Ho the list!!
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Ho the list!!
-áááááá MtMan-List: Vermillion
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Primitive Indian Dresses
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Vermillion
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: AMM Flag
-áááááá MtMan-List: Re: Levi's & Overalls
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Primitive Indian Dresses
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Vermillion
-áááááá MtMan-List: DGW Blackpowder Annual-1981: A Revelation
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Levi's

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 15:22:25 -0600
From: "Glenn Darilek" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Advice for a beginner

Which Levi Corporation?

http://www.levistrauss.com/index_about.html

says Levi Strauss of jeans fame was born in 1829.

Glenn Darilek
Iron Burner


 [e-mail]  wrote
> . . . remember something that overalls were invented in the
> early 1800 by Levi corporation (this gets the purests/triditionalist
> going)and are usually acceptable at most shoots except for the pure AMM
> doings---


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 16:11:25 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Primitive Indian Dresses

CLIFF---
FOR REFERENCE FOR YOUR WIFES INDIAN DRESS ---go to Mystic Warriers of the
plains by thomas e. mall  ISBN 1-56619-657-4

"the native american"  by turner ISBN 1-878685-42-2

"the plains indian"  ISBN 0-7607-0699-9    chapter IV  page 90 "women and
children in plains society"

fot patterns go to mountain state catalog 1-800-445-1776 page 35 feminine
fur trade fashons---several other good books on the subject in the first
paty of their catalog---also look at dixie gun works catalog but you will
probably get it backordered from them---

these reference show some good pictures and good info on women
dresses---have several more books but to me these are the best I have
right here on hand at the minit---

    "HAWK"
Michael Pierce
854 Glenfield Dr.             (Home of "Old Grizz"  products)    (C)
Palm Harbor Florida     34684        Phone:    [phone]
e-mail:   [e-mail]  web
site:http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce

________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 14:14:26 PST
From: "Chance Tiffie" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Primitive Indian Dresses

Hawk,
Thanks for the additonal sources. Were trying to be careful to avoid some of
the plains styles that are much later than I am interested in. We are
looking for styles that were common among the mountain tribes, Shoshone, Nez
Perce, and the like.  Some of the differences are subtle but serious none
the less.  Also many of the mountain tribes received access to trade goods
at later times than most of the plains indians, and we want to be careful of
placing decoration that was difficult to find or was unattainable.
There are misconceptions about so many articles of womens clothing, most
will tell you that women only wore knee leggings, but have seen some that
show full leggings as being proper.  Hanson showed commercial leather belts
(black) with some tack work, appropriate for the plains, but rawhide
belts(brained once),for some mountain tribes.
Have also found that women did not wear blanket coats, but wrapped
themselves in buffalo or elk robes.  So much for the wifes favorite capote!!
  Shoshone women painted the part in their hair, and circles on their
cheeks.  What is a modern alternative to vermillion????
Too many questions, not enough answers.

Cliff Tiffie
PO Box 5089
Durant, OK
74702
580-924-4187
- ---------------------
Aux Aliments de Pays!

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 14:28:57 -0800
From: "Roger Lahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Advice for a beginner

Bet this makes the purists purr. I remain.....

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'

Copied from the Levi Strauss web site:

                Levi Strauss
                         Levi Strauss, the inventor of what many consider to
be the
                         quintessential American garment - the blue jean -
was born in
                         Buttenheim, Bavaria on February 26, 1829 to Hirsch
Strauss and his
                         second wife, Rebecca Haas Strauss. Hirsch, a dry
goods peddler,
                         already had four children with his first wife, who
had died a few
                         years earlier: Jacob, Jonas, Louis and Mathilde.
Levi - named "Loeb"
                         at birth - and his older sister Fanny were the last
of the Strauss
                         children; Hirsch succumbed to tuberculosis in 1845.


               Two years after his death Rebecca, Loeb, Fanny and Mathilde
emigrated to
               New York. There, they were met by Jonas and Louis, who had
already
               made the journey and had started a dry goods business. Loeb
began to
               learn the dry goods trade from his brothers. By 1850 he was
known among
               his family and customers as "Levi."

               When news of the California Gold Rush made its way east,
young Levi
               decided to emigrate to San Francisco to make his fortune: not
by panning
               gold, but by selling supplies to the throngs of miners who
arrived daily in the
               big city to outfit themselves before heading off to the gold
fields. In January
               of 1853 he became an American citizen, and in March he
arrived in a
               bustling, noisy San Francisco, establishing a dry goods
business under his
               own name and also serving as the West Coast representative of
the
               family's New York firm. A short time later, his sister Fanny
and her
               husband David Stern also arrived in town to join the
business.

<snip>

In 1872, Levi received a letter from Jacob Davis, a Nevada tailor. Davis
               was one of Levi Strauss' regular customers; he purchased
bolts of cloth
               from the company to use for his own business. In his letter,
he told the
               prosperous merchant about the interesting way he made pants
for his
               customers: he placed metal rivets at the points of strain -
pocket corners,
               and at the base of the button fly. He didn't have the money
to patent his
               process, so he suggested that Levi pay for the paperwork and
that they
               take out the patent together. Levi was enthusiastic about the
idea and the
               patent was granted to both men on May 20, 1873.



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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 16:14:16 -0700
From: Vic Barkin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Advice for a beginner

Levi's were a product of the california gold rush in '49. Not the Mtn Man
period before 1840.
(see? ya got us going!)

Vic

>Which Levi Corporation?
>
>http://www.levistrauss.com/index_about.html
>
>says Levi Strauss of jeans fame was born in 1829.
>
>Glenn Darilek
>Iron Burner
>
>
> [e-mail]  wrote
>> . . . remember something that overalls were invented in the
>> early 1800 by Levi corporation (this gets the purests/triditionalist
>> going)and are usually acceptable at most shoots except for the pure AMM
>> doings---
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

Vic "Barkin Dawg" Barkin
AMM #1537
Three Rivers Party

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 17:42:38 -0600
From: "Matthew Porter" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Thanks

To all,
    Thanks for replying.  Ya'll are a good buch.  I am pround to know ya'll.

YMOS

Matt
  Porter


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 18:56:35 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Advice for a beginner

On Wed, 15 Mar 2000 15:22:25 -0600 "Glenn Darilek" <[e-mail]>
writes:
> Which Levi Corporation?
>
> http://www.levistrauss.com/index_about.html
>
> says Levi Strauss of jeans fame was born in 1829.
>
> Glenn Darilek
> Iron Burner

must add and clerify overalls with gallises were being sold before that
time  there is a difference from levies as we know them and overalls of
the time period but they are similar to todays overalls with
gallises---that is if i am not mistaken---had a guy a corperate official
from Levi S in our muzzle loading club in st louis that had done a
research paper on this subject and am working from memory and you know me
and old age.

just recomending a temperary until he does his research and gets the
persona he is looking for together---


    "HAWK"
Michael Pierce
854 Glenfield Dr.             (Home of "Old Grizz"  products)    (C)
Palm Harbor Florida     34684        Phone:    [phone]
e-mail:   [e-mail]  web
site:http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce

________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk!  For your FREE software, visit:
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 19:42:55 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Primitive Indian Dresses

On Wed, 15 Mar 2000 14:14:26 PST "Chance Tiffie" <[e-mail]>
writes:
 What is a modern alternative to vermillion????
> Too many questions, not enough answers.
> Cliff Tiffie
probably the oil base artist paint (from hobby shops) would work---not
the latex stuff---

cliff contact a close friend of mine that lives about 10 miles from
you---
name is steve manhard he lives about 1 mile north of bokocheta has 2 of
the hawken guns that i built for him and his son---son won the North
caralina junior championships with his new gun ---had only fired about 12
rounds thru it befor he went to the matches---got 4 first place and one
second and won the agg---and the levi garret territorial for the
juniors---
    "HAWK"
Michael Pierce
854 Glenfield Dr.             (Home of "Old Grizz"  products)    (C)
Palm Harbor Florida     34684        Phone:    [phone]
e-mail:   [e-mail]  web
site:http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce

________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 20:10:56 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Advice for a beginner

vick and cpt L---(figured i would get you guys going) (GBG)-----and of
course as always YMHS---

not talking about the levies as we know them today---the overalls with
the gallicus was what was the first made by levi's father and they were
made in a brown color of material like canvis similar to the brown ones
that they still make by the levi corperation---You might Contact Jeff
Erlich---(nephue of one of the levi family who works for the company now
- ---) (was a member of the trappers of starved rock)(in st louis in the
1975 time span---he was the one that produced the documentation that put
the overalls in the 1825 time span-(he had shipping documents and
original orders for them dated in the 1825 time span---the order
described the article of clothing quite well --again I am not talking of
the levies that we see most common today (that you wear a belt with)but
the overalls that levi now produces but in the brown color that they
still make---

Just for your guys info ---it was always funny to me---jeff always wore
the brown overalls with the gallesus and they were peiod correct there is
a couple of miner differences  but that can be done by the individual and
then they are right---will try to contact jeff and see if he still has
all his documentation ---he usto have them framed in his office at
home---and we always laughed about it---(one of his family airlooms)
smitty knows the guy that i am speaking of---he shot a custom swivel
breach flint daley gun.


    "HAWK"
Michael Pierce
854 Glenfield Dr.             (Home of "Old Grizz"  products)    (C)
Palm Harbor Florida     34684        Phone:    [phone]
e-mail:   [e-mail]  web
site:http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce

________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 20:30:39 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: Test Message

I'm sending messages to list but aren't seeing them received.

This is a test.

Traphand
[e-mail]

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 22:05:36 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail] (JON MARINETTI)
Subject: MtMan-List: Beaver Trap Prices

Firearms, Traps, & Tools MtMen by Carl Russell (pp. 132-133) has a range
of $1.50 - $4.00 each.
(thanks LR for tip on google engine).

- -----------------------------------
from Michigan
- -----------------------------------


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 19:14:32 -0800
From: "Hill" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Elk Pants

Thanks Joe, what would I do without your wisdom?
I long to study at your feet!
- ----------
>From: Joe Brandl <[e-mail]>
>To: [e-mail]
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Elk Pants
>Date: Wed, Mar 15, 2000, 4:53 AM
>

>It is a little known fact that Rocky Mtn Elk do wear pants in the
>wintertime to assist them in foraging for food on high wind blown
>slopes. During the summer months, a shorter version of knickers are
>worn. I've seen it for sure. hard to verify though as during hunting
>season, these pants are cached to avoid detection and any assocation
>of being human.
>Joe
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 21:26:34 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Bill Cunningham)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Primitive Indian Dresses

Hey, Cliff, take a trip over to Woolarock - they have some nice stuff there
and it'll take you at least a day to look at all the stuff you will want to
see: like an Indian cap that is dated from 1806 or so that looks just like a
modern ball cap, but with a fully beaded visor - and a couple of Indian
dresses that are knock outs. Then try Tulsa at the Gilchrist. There are
Miller and Catlin paintings there by the wall full. And the Catlins are not
the usual blurry things you see reproduced in books. Down in the basement
there are literally cases of Indian stuff, including Indian dresses and if
you don't find all you want there, ask them to show you some of the stuff
that is not on display.
Bill C
- -----Original Message-----
From: Chance Tiffie <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 2:15 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Primitive Indian Dresses


>Hawk,
>Thanks for the additonal sources. Were trying to be careful to avoid some
of
>the plains styles that are much later than I am interested in. We are
>looking for styles that were common among the mountain tribes, Shoshone,
Nez
>Perce, and the like.  Some of the differences are subtle but serious none
>the less.  Also many of the mountain tribes received access to trade goods
>at later times than most of the plains indians, and we want to be careful
of
>placing decoration that was difficult to find or was unattainable.
>There are misconceptions about so many articles of womens clothing, most
>will tell you that women only wore knee leggings, but have seen some that
>show full leggings as being proper.  Hanson showed commercial leather belts
>(black) with some tack work, appropriate for the plains, but rawhide
>belts(brained once),for some mountain tribes.
>Have also found that women did not wear blanket coats, but wrapped
>themselves in buffalo or elk robes.  So much for the wifes favorite
capote!!
>  Shoshone women painted the part in their hair, and circles on their
>cheeks.  What is a modern alternative to vermillion????
>Too many questions, not enough answers.
>
>Cliff Tiffie
>PO Box 5089
>Durant, OK
>74702
>580-924-4187
>---------------------
>Aux Aliments de Pays!
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 04:18:16 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ho the list!!

Hello in the camp
 I'M Back! What ya got stern in camp? John I sat down to night to read the
archives mind you just to see what had been going since I quit. The time it
took me would have taken all of the time I can set a side for being on this
computer. Ya see this child tries to spend more time makin history then
readin it. Anyway my point is If I started reading the archives at the start
4 years back and at the rate that new is being put out I would never Catch
up. The price of being a slow reader. But Bridger could not read a lick so
I'm in good company. I read Angals Idea about most frequent asked Questions
list. Why not take one step further and make it a real research tool with a
search engine. Now I know nothing about computers. But they can set them up
so you can type in the key words then it bring up all the files that are of
pertness to it. Heres an example of what I mean. Try this site see how it
works. And if you're into native plant uses you will relay like this site.
http://www.umd.umich.edu/cgi-bin/herb
If we could set the Archives like that it would be a lot easier to get
answers without haven to be botherin you guys buy askin the same old
questions, or a life time of diggin to find it in the archives.

Talking about plants the first eatables of spring are out now. Bill Varga,
Jill and I went out today and to dig Indian potatoes and Biscuit Root. Here
in south Idaho we found them at about 4,200 ft. elevation growing along the
benches. It was good to get out, I had cabin fever had me powerful bad.
Worked with that little Spanish Barb mustang stud of Bills I'm brakin for him
what a treat of a horse. If their all like this one, I can see why were so
widely used back then. He's a smart one and willin to please. He's not to big
now but by the time he's done growing he should be just under 15 hands. I'm
tryin to fix him up with my two maris maybe I can breed some brains in to
them. And It's time to get traps in the water before the pelts lose there
prime. What I'm sayin is I'm back but Ain't going to be a spending a hole lot
of time on this here box ain't my still. I want to thank everyone for your
words of support.                       See ya on the trail
                                                        Crazy Cyot

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 05:54:31 -0600
From: "Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ho the list!!

Good to see you back, Crazy.
Lanney Ratcliff
- ----- Original Message -----=20
From: <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 3:18 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ho the list!!


> Hello in the camp
>  I'M Back! What ya got stern in camp? John I sat down to night to read =
the=20
> archives mind you just to see what had been going since I quit. The =
time it=20
> took me would have taken all of the time I can set a side for being on =
this=20
> computer. Ya see this child tries to spend more time makin history =
then=20
> readin it. Anyway my point is If I started reading the archives at the =
start=20
> 4 years back and at the rate that new is being put out I would never =
Catch=20
> up. The price of being a slow reader. But Bridger could not read a =
lick so=20
> I'm in good company. I read Angals Idea about most frequent asked =
Questions=20
> list. Why not take one step further and make it a real research tool =
with a=20
> search engine. Now I know nothing about computers. But they can set =
them up=20
> so you can type in the key words then it bring up all the files that =
are of=20
> pertness to it. Heres an example of what I mean. Try this site see how =
it=20
> works. And if you're into native plant uses you will relay like this =
site.
> http://www.umd.umich.edu/cgi-bin/herb
> If we could set the Archives like that it would be a lot easier to get =

> answers without haven to be botherin you guys buy askin the same old=20
> questions, or a life time of diggin to find it in the archives.        =
      =20
>           =20
> Talking about plants the first eatables of spring are out now. Bill =
Varga,=20
> Jill and I went out today and to dig Indian potatoes and Biscuit Root. =
Here=20
> in south Idaho we found them at about 4,200 ft. elevation growing =
along the=20
> benches. It was good to get out, I had cabin fever had me powerful =
bad.=20
> Worked with that little Spanish Barb mustang stud of Bills I'm brakin =
for him=20
> what a treat of a horse. If their all like this one, I can see why =
were so=20
> widely used back then. He's a smart one and willin to please. He's not =
to big=20
> now but by the time he's done growing he should be just under 15 =
hands. I'm=20
> tryin to fix him up with my two maris maybe I can breed some brains in =
to=20
> them. And It's time to get traps in the water before the pelts lose =
there=20
> prime. What I'm sayin is I'm back but Ain't going to be a spending a =
hole lot=20
> of time on this here box ain't my still. I want to thank everyone for =
your=20
> words of support.                       See ya on the trail
>                                                         Crazy Cyot
>=20
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: =
http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 15:08:52 +0200
From: "K.C." <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Vermillion

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- --Boundary_(ID_TSDrJnHggJZGLSvvA0CiXg)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

Good day to the list.
Vermillion, I believe, is mercuric sulphide and therefore possibly not =
available to the red Indian tribes at the time of history in which you =
are interested.=20

A possible alternative source of bright, red colouring, which was =
probably readily available, could have been cochineal. Cochineal is made =
from the dried bodies of a scale insect which lives on cacti. Cochineal =
is in use today as a food colouring.

(It is a problem on the prickly pear cactus which is grown commercially, =
here in R.S.A)

Yours truly,

K.C.

- --Boundary_(ID_TSDrJnHggJZGLSvvA0CiXg)
Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2014.210" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>Good day to the list.</DIV>
<DIV>Vermillion, I believe, is mercuric sulphide and therefore possibly =
not=20
available to the red Indian tribes at the time of history in which you =
are=20
interested. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>A possible alternative source of bright, red colouring, which was =
probably=20
readily available, could have been cochineal. Cochineal is made from the =
dried=20
bodies of a scale insect which lives on cacti. Cochineal is in use today =
as a=20
food colouring.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>(It is a problem on the prickly pear cactus which is grown =
commercially,=20
here in R.S.A)</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Yours truly,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>K.C.</DIV></BODY></HTML>

- --Boundary_(ID_TSDrJnHggJZGLSvvA0CiXg)--

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Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 07:41:28 -0600 (CST)
From: "Susan Gilbert" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Primitive Indian Dresses

Hello the list,

It is possible to get your hands on a copy of this book through inter-library
loan.  Just take this information:

 Fecteau, Susan/Vickie Zimmer Kuntz Primitive Indian Dresses - Leather
Dress Styles & Decoration Cheyenne 1979 1st Ed 106pp, illus by author.

and head to your local library.  The good folks there will look up which library
closest to you has a copy and will get it for you.
I did this morning to see if there were copies out there to borrow.  Conan the
Librarian (my friend John) said there were several dozen scattered all over
the country.  I will have one in my hands late next week.
This is a great way to have access to research material that is out of print or
too expensive to own.

Sue Gilbert
6 Beaver Camp


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Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 05:41:45 PST
From: "Chance Tiffie" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Vermillion

KC,
Surely you jest!!  Vermillion was one of the largest trade items of the
rocky mountain fur trade.  Came in small papers or something of the like.




Cliff Tiffie
PO Box 5089
Durant, OK
74702
580-924-4187
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______________________________________________________
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Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 07:05:06 -0800
From: Mike Moore <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: AMM Flag

Brothers,
    As others have noted, the flag gets passed from party to party for each
of the
nationals to fly. I do have a copy of the new logo (the pistol and powder
horn) made
into a flag. It is on off white muslin and done in black. If anyone would
like to know
how I made it or would like to borrow (borrow!) let me know.
                                                mike.
[e-mail] wrote:

> I saw the AMM flag at the rendezvous last summer. It was hoisted near the
> trade tent area. So someone must know where it is. The question is, can
> we reproduce it for display at our personal camps.
>
> Todd Glover
> ________________________________________________________________
> YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
> Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
> Try it today - there's no risk!  For your FREE software, visit:
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Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 07:57:51 -0700
From: Vic Barkin <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Levi's & Overalls

So what would his Dad's name have been? Levi was a first name, so we
couldn't very well call his Dads overalls Levi's, could we? (unless Levi
Strauss' father was also named Levi). Where did the father live and
produce? would that product have made it out to the frontier west? how
prevalent was that syle? See what your friend has if possible.

Thanks

Vic

>vick and cpt L---(figured i would get you guys going) (GBG)-----and of
>course as always YMHS---
>
>not talking about the levies as we know them today---the overalls with
>the gallicus was what was the first made by levi's father and they were
>made in a brown color of material like canvis similar to the brown ones
>that they still make by the levi corperation---You might Contact Jeff
>Erlich---(nephue of one of the levi family who works for the company now
>---) (was a member of the trappers of starved rock)(in st louis in the
>1975 time span---he was the one that produced the documentation that put
>the overalls in the 1825 time span-(he had shipping documents and
>original orders for them dated in the 1825 time span---the order
>described the article of clothing quite well --again I am not talking of
>the levies that we see most common today (that you wear a belt with)but
>the overalls that levi now produces but in the brown color that they
>still make---
>
>Just for your guys info ---it was always funny to me---jeff always wore
>the brown overalls with the gallesus and they were peiod correct there is
>a couple of miner differences  but that can be done by the individual and
>then they are right---will try to contact jeff and see if he still has
>all his documentation ---he usto have them framed in his office at
>home---and we always laughed about it---(one of his family airlooms)
>smitty knows the guy that i am speaking of---he shot a custom swivel
>breach flint daley gun.
>
>
>    "HAWK"
>Michael Pierce
>854 Glenfield Dr.             (Home of "Old Grizz"  products)    (C)
>Palm Harbor Florida     34684        Phone:    [phone]
>e-mail:   [e-mail]  web
>site:http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce
>
>________________________________________________________________
>YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
>Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
>Try it today - there's no risk!  For your FREE software, visit:
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>
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Vic "Barkin Dawg" Barkin
AMM #1537
Three Rivers Party

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Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 08:03:14 -0700
From: Joe Brandl <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Primitive Indian Dresses

Cliff,

Just get the book with Karl Bodmers paintings or look a Catlins work.
Early dresses in the Northern Plains were very similiar. Go with the
side seam dress or two piece. Hides for a two piece are the difficult
to find, if she is tall or just a bit on the "big" size. They did
make three piece dresses also, but were not as common. As for
decoration, again look at Bodmer, Catlin and even Miller. You can get
lots of ideas there. It does not take much to sewn these together as
it does to decorate them correctly
Joe

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Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 08:09:19 -0700
From: Joe Brandl <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Vermillion

Vermillion was very much available to Indians, both american and chinese
Joe

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Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 09:41:27 -0500
From: "Henry B. Crawford" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: DGW Blackpowder Annual-1981: A Revelation

Friends,

I happened to be browsing through my old issues of the Dixie Gun Works
Annual looking for an article on rolling paper cartridges for an upcoming
Tex. Revolution event (Goliad/La Bahia Mar. 24-26) when I came across the
article on the American Mountain Men in the 1981 issue.  Something caught
my eye.  There was something peculiar about the color photo at the
beginning of the article.  I have seen this picture many dozens of times
since I bought the issue almost 20 years ago, but it just dawned on me.
Could that be our own Clay Landry (black mustache-standing w/rifle) and
Jeff Hengesbaugh sitting w/black beard) in the photo?  They look sooo
young.  Who are those other two fellows in the shot?  Who are the guys in
the photo on p. 39?  Can someone identify them, left to right?  Who is that
magnificent looking Gray Beard on p. 38?  Thanks in advance.

Adios,
HBC (proudly sporting my four-month old elkskin frock coat these days,
which my wife insists that I keep in the garage because it still carries a
"wonderfully rich" smoke smell [she just don't get it])

**********************************
Henry B. Crawford
Curator of History
Museum of Texas Tech University
Box 43191
Lubbock, TX  79409-3191
[e-mail]
806/742-2442  FAX [phone]
Website: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
***  Living History . . . Because It's There  ***



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Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 08:51:03 -0700
From: Vic Barkin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Levi's

thank you Capt.! purrrrrr

>Bet this makes the purists purr. I remain.....
>
>YMOS
>Capt. Lahti'
>
>Copied from the Levi Strauss web site:
>
>                Levi Strauss
>                         Levi Strauss, the inventor of what many consider to
>be the
>                         quintessential American garment - the blue jean -
>was born in
>                         Buttenheim, Bavaria on February 26, 1829 to Hirsch
>Strauss and his
>                         second wife, Rebecca Haas Strauss. Hirsch, a dry
>goods peddler,
>                         already had four children with his first wife, who
>had died a few
>                         years earlier: Jacob, Jonas, Louis and Mathilde.
>Levi - named "Loeb"
>                         at birth - and his older sister Fanny were the last
>of the Strauss
>                         children; Hirsch succumbed to tuberculosis in 1845.
>
>
>               Two years after his death Rebecca, Loeb, Fanny and Mathilde
>emigrated to
>               New York. There, they were met by Jonas and Louis, who had
>already
>               made the journey and had started a dry goods business. Loeb
>began to
>               learn the dry goods trade from his brothers. By 1850 he was
>known among
>               his family and customers as "Levi."
>
>               When news of the California Gold Rush made its way east,
>young Levi
>               decided to emigrate to San Francisco to make his fortune: not
>by panning
>               gold, but by selling supplies to the throngs of miners who
>arrived daily in the
>               big city to outfit themselves before heading off to the gold
>fields. In January
>               of 1853 he became an American citizen, and in March he
>arrived in a
>               bustling, noisy San Francisco, establishing a dry goods
>business under his
>               own name and also serving as the West Coast representative of
>the
>               family's New York firm. A short time later, his sister Fanny
>and her
>               husband David Stern also arrived in town to join the
>business.
>
><snip>
>
>In 1872, Levi received a letter from Jacob Davis, a Nevada tailor. Davis
>               was one of Levi Strauss' regular customers; he purchased
>bolts of cloth
>               from the company to use for his own business. In his letter,
>he told the
>               prosperous merchant about the interesting way he made pants
>for his
>               customers: he placed metal rivets at the points of strain -
>pocket corners,
>               and at the base of the button fly. He didn't have the money
>to patent his
>               process, so he suggested that Levi pay for the paperwork and
>that they
>               take out the patent together. Levi was enthusiastic about the
>idea and the
>               patent was granted to both men on May 20, 1873.
>
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

Vic "Barkin Dawg" Barkin
AMM #1537
Three Rivers Party

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