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From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #443 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Wednesday, January 5 2000 Volume 01 : Number 443 In this issue: -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Incident in movie Jeremiah Johnson -áááááá MtMan-List: Re: Trappers -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Greenhorn needs help. -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Incident in movie Jeremiah Johnson -áááááá MtMan-List: MOOSE ? -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: MOOSE ? -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: MOOSE ? -áááááá MtMan-List: Re: AMM-List: MOOSE ? -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: AMM-List: MOOSE ? -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: AMM-List: MOOSE ? -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: AMM-List: MOOSE ? -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: AMM-List: MOOSE ? -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: AMM-List: MOOSE ? -áááááá MtMan-List: Moose -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: AMM-List: MOOSE ? -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: AMM-List: MOOSE ? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 17:16:01 -0800 From: "Wayne & Terri" <wharper@sinclair.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Incident in movie Jeremiah Johnson I don't know about historical documentation. But two years ago my foster son took a grouse with a rock about the size of a baseball and at about 12 feet. the grouse was along side a dirt road. He is a pretty big kid.(and at times pretty damn lucky) And in the same year I took one with a club about a foot long thrown in tomahawk style. The Grouse was sitting on a branch in a tree. 3strings - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 23:51:54 EST From: Wind1838@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Trappers We were talking last month about the character and "grit" that were part of a trapper's personality. In my research lately I found a couple of references I really enjoyed. The first, a reference to Jed Smith out of DeVoto's "Across the Wide Missouri." " . . . his (Smith's) prejudices were so strong that he could not be reasonable with himself." The second regarding Hugh Glass from "Pirate, Pawnee and Mountain Man: The Sage of Hugh Glass," by John Meyers Myers. "He had his failings. But his fellow trappers bear testimony to his honor, integrity and fidelity. He could be relied on -- and no man would fly more swiftly, nor contribute more freely to the relief of a suffering fellow man than he. Sunk amidst depravity, Hugh had surfaced undepraved. Living as a savage, he had become no part of one. . . . Bold, daring, reckless and eccentric to a high degree; but was nevertheless a man of great talents and intellectual as well as bodily power. But his bravery was conspicuous beyond all other qualities for the perilous life he lived." Quite an epitaph! Laura Glise Wind1838@aol.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 21:01:52 -0800 From: "P. Amschler" <buckskinner@mailcity.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Greenhorn needs help. Great answer and a positive one that I can use. Thanks - --- amschlers@mailcity.com LYCOShop is now open. On your mark, get set, SHOP!!! http://shop.lycos.com/ - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 09:02:07 -0700 From: Joe Brandl <jbrandl@wyoming.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Incident in movie Jeremiah Johnson I have many times used a stick to kill blue grouse. Not alot of throwing rocks in the woods but lots of good sticks. Blue grouse are pretty stupid and I don't carry a 22 when elk hunting. besides like to be a little quiet if elk are around. Joe Check out our new web site at http://www.dteworld.com/absarokawesterndesign/ We have great home tanning kits based on 20 years experience New leather wildlife coasters and placemats at wholesale prices - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 18:09:20 -0800 From: "larry pendleton" <yrrw@airmail.net> Subject: MtMan-List: MOOSE ? As I was sewing up a pair of moosehide mocs, I started thinking. [ Yes Dennis, I know that is strange. ] I don't ever recall reading where the mountain men killed and ate a moose. Have any of you found such documentation ? Were moose not in the Rocky Mountains at that time ? Were they not considered fittin vitals ? So many questions. Pendleton - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 18:14:41 -0700 From: "Kurt Westenbarger" <kwesten@wyellowstone.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: MOOSE ? Being a guide in Yellowstone I get very interested in wildlife populations both historically and presently. Below is a portion of the report EFFECTS OF WINTER RECREATION ON WILDLIFE OF THE GREATER YELLOWSTONE AREA: A LITERATURE REVIEW AND ASSESSMENT, Greater Yellowstone Winter Wildlife Working Group, October 1999, Pages 73 - 74, which addresses your question of were moose in the Rockies, or in this case the Greater Yellowstone Area (GYA), historically. Kurt POPULATION STATUS AND TREND Moose may have been rare in western North America during historic as well as pre-Columbian times (Peterson 1955, Kelsall and Telfer 1974, Kay 1997). However, since about 1900 moose appear to have extended their range and/or become more numerous (Kelsall and Telfer 1974, Kay 1997). Estimating moose population size has proven to be a consistent problem in many areas (Timmermann 1974, 1993; Gasaway et al. 1986), and a lack of accurate estimates has hampered good management (Gasaway et al. 1986). Some attempts to determine moose population status and trend in the Greater Yellowstone Area (GYA) have been equally problematic (Tyers unpublished data, Gasaway 1997), and a good count for this region has not been achieved. Although demographic data are not available at a large landscape level, it is known that moose are uncommon compared to other ungulates in the GYA. In addition, populations are often at low density. In these circumstances, a conservative approach to moose population management is advised (Tyers unpublished data, Gasaway 1997, Karns 1997). Some information on moose populations in the GYA is available. Houston (1982) reported that moose remains have not been found in archeological sites in northwest Wyoming or south central Montana. He concluded that moose had not yet occupied northwest Wyo-ming in 1830 (Houston 1968), but had colo-nized the Yellowstone area by the 1870s; they appeared on Yellowstones northern range around 1913 (Houston 1982). Schullery and Whittlesey (1992) reviewed the documentary record for wolves and related wildlife species in the Yellowstone National Park area prior to 1882. Based on historic accounts, they con-cluded that moose were common in the south-ern part of the park in 1882, and rare sightings were made near or on the northern range about the same time. Recent studies indicate a population de-cline following the 1988 Yellowstone fires in areas where fire effects were severe and in areas where moose rely on older lodgepole pine forests for winter range (Tyers unpub-lished data, Tyers and Irby 1995). In response to these data, Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks has significantly reduced hunting quotas in districts north of Yellowstone National Park (T. Lemke, Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks, personal communication). In portions of the GYA where moose have different winter-use patterns or where fire effects are not an issue, the trend may be different. Several hypotheses have been proposed to explain the biogeography of moose in western North America. Kelsall and Telfer (1974) presented five hypotheses to explain the rela-tively recent expansion of moose. These include: (1) moose have had a limited amount of time to colonize North America since the last glaciation; (2) climatic variationthe Little Ice Age and associated severe winter weather limited moose populations around 1700?1800; (3) disease once limited moose numbers; (4) European settlement modified the original climax forests, which were poor moose habitat, and created seral vegetation types that moose prefer; and (5) predators once limited moose, but the near extermination of native carnivores allowed moose to extend their range and expand their populations. Kay (1997) proposed a sixth hypothesis: moose were extremely vulnerable to predation by Native Americans who had no effective conservation practices. The result was a control of moose biogeography by native hunting. Loope and Gruell (1973) proposed a seventh hypothesis specific to the GYA: a very low moose population during the 19 th century was the result of fires, which maintained early successional vegetation. They speculated that moose populations have increased in this century in northwest Wyoming as forests have matured under a management policy of fire suppression. A primary factor in this, they believe, is an increase in subalpine fir, a shade-tolerant species found in older forests. They further hypothesized that subalpine fir is the staple food item in the diets of moose in the area. Tyers (unpublished data) tested this hypothesis and demonstrated that moose along the northern border of Yellowstone National Park feed primarily on subalpine fir saplings in older lodgepole forests. Although the Shiras moose is a relatively recent arrival to the GYA, available habitat is now occupied. However, future population trends are uncertain. Habitat conditions, human influences, and exposure to predation vary considerably across the GYA. In addition, the small home range size of moose and the strong fidelity moose show to a geographic area tend to create many fairly discrete popula-tions. For these reasons, it is likely that local populations will display very different trends. As evidenced by the hypotheses for recent moose range expansion explained above, future trends in the GYA will be largely determined by predation and habitat quality. Humans, bears, and wolves prey upon moose in the GYA. The recent reintroduction of wolves is an important variable with unknown consequences. Some have speculated that wolves will play a major role in regulating moose populations, and a decrease in moose numbers will be noticed (Messier et al. 1995). The 1988 Yellowstone fires were a landscape-level disturbance that affected the successional stage of vegetation. This will undoubtedly be a determining factor for moose populations in a large spatial and temporal context. In many parts of the GYA, a return to an early succes-sional stage represents a decrease in moose winter habitat that will reduce carrying capac-ity (Tyers unpublished data). Riparian areas with deciduous vegetation are important foraging areas for moose. They are limited in size and distribution and are particularly vulnerable to human impacts. Management of these areas will also play a role in determining moose population trends. larry pendleton wrote: > As I was sewing up a pair of moosehide mocs, I started thinking. [ Yes > Dennis, I know that is strange. ] I don't ever recall reading where the > mountain men killed and ate a moose. Have any of you found such > documentation ? Were moose not in the Rocky Mountains at that time ? Were > they not considered fittin vitals ? So many questions. > Pendleton > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 19:41:02 -0800 From: "larry pendleton" <yrrw@airmail.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: MOOSE ? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BF56EB.A24509C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for the info, Kurt. That pretty much explains it. Pendleton=20 -----Original Message----- From: Kurt Westenbarger <kwesten@wyellowstone.com> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Date: Tuesday, January 04, 2000 5:14 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: MOOSE ? =20 =20 Being a guide in Yellowstone I get very interested in wildlife = populations both historically and presently. Below is a portion of the report = EFFECTS OF WINTER RECREATION ON WILDLIFE OF THE GREATER YELLOWSTONE AREA: A = LITERATURE REVIEW AND ASSESSMENT, Greater Yellowstone Winter Wildlife Working = Group, October 1999, Pages 73 - 74, which addresses your question of were = moose in the Rockies, or in this case the Greater Yellowstone Area (GYA), = historically. =20 Kurt =20 POPULATION STATUS AND TREND Moose may have been rare in western North America during historic as well as pre-Columbian times (Peterson 1955, Kelsall and Telfer 1974, Kay 1997). However, since about 1900 moose appear to have extended their range and/or become more numerous (Kelsall and Telfer 1974, Kay 1997). Estimating moose population size has proven to be a consistent problem in many areas (Timmermann 1974, 1993; Gasaway et al. 1986), and a lack of accurate estimates has hampered good management (Gasaway et al. 1986). Some attempts to determine moose population status and trend in the Greater Yellowstone Area (GYA) have been equally problematic (Tyers unpublished data, Gasaway 1997), and a good count for this region has not been achieved. Although demographic data are not available at a large landscape level, it is known that moose are uncommon compared to other ungulates in the GYA. In addition, populations are often at low density. In these circumstances, a conservative approach to moose population management is advised (Tyers unpublished data, Gasaway 1997, Karns 1997). Some information on moose populations in the GYA is available. Houston (1982) reported that moose remains have not been found in archeological sites in northwest Wyoming or south central Montana. He concluded that moose had not yet occupied northwest Wyo-ming in 1830 (Houston 1968), but had colo-nized the Yellowstone area by the 1870s; they appeared on Yellowstone=12s northern range around 1913 (Houston 1982). Schullery and Whittlesey (1992) reviewed the documentary record for wolves and related wildlife species in the Yellowstone National Park area prior to 1882. Based on historic accounts, they con-cluded that moose were common in the south-ern part of the park in 1882, and rare sightings were made near or on the northern range about the same time. Recent studies indicate a population de-cline following the 1988 Yellowstone fires in areas where fire effects were severe and in areas where moose rely on older lodgepole pine forests for winter range (Tyers unpub-lished data, Tyers and Irby 1995). In response to these data, Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks has significantly reduced hunting quotas in districts north of Yellowstone National Park (T. Lemke, Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks, personal communication). In portions of the GYA where moose have different winter-use patterns or where fire effects are not an issue, the trend may be different. Several hypotheses have been proposed to explain the biogeography of moose in western North America. Kelsall and Telfer (1974) presented five hypotheses to explain the rela-tively recent expansion of moose. These include: (1) moose have had a limited amount of time to colonize North America since the last glaciation; (2) climatic variation=17the Little Ice Age and associated severe winter weather limited moose populations around 1700?1800; (3) disease once = limited moose numbers; (4) European settlement modified the original climax forests, which were poor moose habitat, and created seral vegetation types that moose prefer; and (5) predators once limited moose, but the near extermination of native carnivores allowed moose to extend their range and expand their populations. Kay (1997) proposed a sixth hypothesis: moose were extremely vulnerable to predation by Native Americans who had no effective conservation practices. The result was a control of moose biogeography by native hunting. Loope and Gruell (1973) proposed a seventh hypothesis specific to the GYA: a very low moose population during the 19 th century was the result of fires, which maintained early successional vegetation. They speculated that moose populations have increased in this century in northwest Wyoming as forests have matured under a management policy of fire suppression. A primary factor in this, they believe, is an increase in subalpine fir, a shade-tolerant species found in older forests. They further hypothesized that subalpine fir is the staple food item in the diets of moose in the area. Tyers (unpublished data) tested this hypothesis and demonstrated that moose along the northern border of Yellowstone National Park feed primarily on subalpine fir saplings in older lodgepole forests. Although the Shiras moose is a relatively recent arrival to the GYA, available habitat is now occupied. However, future population trends are uncertain. Habitat conditions, human influences, and exposure to predation vary considerably across the GYA. In addition, the small home range size of moose and the strong fidelity moose show to a geographic area tend to create many fairly discrete popula-tions. For these reasons, it is likely that local populations will display very different trends. As evidenced by the hypotheses for recent moose range expansion explained above, future trends in the GYA will be largely determined by predation and habitat quality. Humans, bears, and wolves prey upon moose in the GYA. The recent reintroduction of wolves is an important variable with unknown consequences. Some have speculated that wolves will play a major role in regulating moose populations, and a decrease in moose numbers will be noticed (Messier et al. 1995). The 1988 Yellowstone fires were a landscape-level disturbance that affected the successional stage of vegetation. This will undoubtedly be a determining factor for moose populations in a large spatial and temporal context. In many parts of the GYA, a return to an early succes-sional stage represents a decrease in moose winter habitat that will reduce carrying capac-ity (Tyers unpublished data). Riparian areas with deciduous vegetation are important foraging areas for moose. They are limited in size and distribution and are particularly vulnerable to human impacts. Management of these areas will also play a role in determining moose population trends. =20 larry pendleton wrote: =20 > As I was sewing up a pair of moosehide mocs, I started thinking. = [ Yes > Dennis, I know that is strange. ] I don't ever recall reading = where the > mountain men killed and ate a moose. Have any of you found such > documentation ? Were moose not in the Rocky Mountains at that = time ? Were > they not considered fittin vitals ? So many questions. > Pendleton > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: = http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html =20 =20 ---------------------- hist_text list info: = http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BF56EB.A24509C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV>Thanks for the info, Kurt. = That pretty=20 much explains it.</DIV> <DIV>Pendleton </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: = 5px"> <DIV>-----Original = Message----- From:=20 Kurt Westenbarger <<A=20 = href=3D"mailto:kwesten@wyellowstone.com">kwesten@wyellowstone.com</A>>= To:=20 <A=20 = href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com= </A>=20 <<A=20 = href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com= </A>> Date:=20 Tuesday, January 04, 2000 5:14 PM Subject: Re: = MtMan-List:=20 MOOSE ? </DIV>Being a guide in Yellowstone I get very=20 interested in wildlife populations both historically and = presently. =20 Below is a portion of the report EFFECTS OF WINTER RECREATION ON = WILDLIFE=20 OF THE GREATER YELLOWSTONE AREA: A LITERATURE REVIEW AND = ASSESSMENT,=20 Greater Yellowstone Winter Wildlife Working Group, October 1999, = Pages 73=20 - 74, which addresses your question of were moose in the Rockies, = or in=20 this case the Greater Yellowstone Area (GYA),=20 historically. Kurt POPULATION STATUS AND = TREND Moose may=20 have been rare in western North America during historic as well = as=20 pre-Columbian times (Peterson 1955, Kelsall and Telfer 1974, = Kay=20 1997). However, since about 1900 moose appear to have extended=20 their range and/or become more numerous (Kelsall and Telfer = 1974, Kay=20 1997). Estimating moose population size has proven to be a = consistent=20 problem in many areas (Timmermann 1974, 1993; Gasaway et al. = 1986),=20 and a lack of accurate estimates has hampered good management=20 (Gasaway et al. 1986). Some attempts to determine moose = population=20 status and trend in the Greater Yellowstone Area (GYA) have=20 been equally problematic (Tyers unpublished data, Gasaway = 1997), and a=20 good count for this region has not been achieved. = Although demographic=20 data are not available at a large landscape level, it is known = that moose=20 are uncommon compared to other ungulates in the GYA. In = addition,=20 populations are often at low density. In these circumstances, a=20 conservative approach to moose population management = is advised (Tyers=20 unpublished data, Gasaway 1997, Karns 1997). Some information = on moose=20 populations in the GYA is available. Houston (1982) = reported that=20 moose remains have not been found in archeological sites in = northwest=20 Wyoming or south central Montana. He concluded that moose had = not yet=20 occupied northwest Wyo-ming in 1830 (Houston 1968), but had=20 colo-nized the Yellowstone area by the 1870s; they appeared on = Yellowstone=12s northern range around 1913 (Houston 1982). = Schullery=20 and Whittlesey (1992) reviewed the documentary record for = wolves and=20 related wildlife species in the Yellowstone National Park area = prior=20 to 1882. Based on historic accounts, they con-cluded that = moose were=20 common in the south-ern part of the park in 1882, and rare=20 sightings were made near or on the northern range about the = same=20 time. Recent studies indicate a population de-cline following = the 1988=20 Yellowstone fires in areas where fire effects were severe and = in areas=20 where moose rely on older lodgepole pine forests for winter range = (Tyers=20 unpub-lished data, Tyers and Irby 1995). In response to these = data,=20 Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks has significantly reduced = hunting quotas=20 in districts north of Yellowstone National Park (T. Lemke, = Montana=20 Fish, Wildlife and Parks, personal communication). In portions of = the GYA where moose have different winter-use patterns or = where fire=20 effects are not an issue, the trend may be different. Several=20 hypotheses have been proposed to explain the biogeography of = moose in=20 western North America. Kelsall and Telfer (1974) presented = five=20 hypotheses to explain the rela-tively recent expansion of moose.=20 These include: (1) moose have had a limited amount of time to = colonize=20 North America since the last glaciation; (2) climatic=20 variation=17the Little Ice Age and associated severe = winter weather=20 limited moose populations around 1700?1800; (3) disease once=20 limited moose numbers; (4) European settlement modified=20 the original climax forests, which were poor moose habitat, = and=20 created seral vegetation types that moose prefer; and (5) = predators=20 once limited moose, but the near extermination of native = carnivores=20 allowed moose to extend their range and expand their = populations. Kay=20 (1997) proposed a sixth hypothesis: moose were extremely = vulnerable to=20 predation by Native Americans who had no = effective conservation=20 practices. The result was a control of moose biogeography by=20 native hunting. Loope and Gruell (1973) proposed a seventh=20 hypothesis specific to the GYA: a very low moose population = during the 19=20 th century was the result of fires, which maintained=20 early successional vegetation. They speculated that moose = populations=20 have increased in this century in northwest Wyoming as forests=20 have matured under a management policy of fire suppression. A = primary=20 factor in this, they believe, is an increase in subalpine fir, a=20 shade-tolerant species found in older forests. They further=20 hypothesized that subalpine fir is the staple food item in the = diets of=20 moose in the area. Tyers (unpublished data) tested = this hypothesis and=20 demonstrated that moose along the northern border of Yellowstone=20 National Park feed primarily on subalpine fir saplings = in older=20 lodgepole forests. Although the Shiras moose is a = relatively recent=20 arrival to the GYA, available habitat is now occupied. However, = future=20 population trends are uncertain. Habitat conditions, human = influences,=20 and exposure to predation vary considerably across the GYA. In=20 addition, the small home range size of moose and the strong = fidelity=20 moose show to a geographic area tend to create many fairly = discrete=20 popula-tions. For these reasons, it is likely that = local populations=20 will display very different trends. As evidenced by the = hypotheses for=20 recent moose range expansion explained above, future trends in = the GYA=20 will be largely determined by predation and habitat quality.=20 Humans, bears, and wolves prey upon moose in the GYA. The = recent=20 reintroduction of wolves is an important variable with unknown=20 consequences. Some have speculated that wolves will play a = major role=20 in regulating moose populations, and a decrease in moose = numbers will=20 be noticed (Messier et al. 1995). The 1988 Yellowstone fires were = a=20 landscape-level disturbance that affected the successional = stage of=20 vegetation. This will undoubtedly be a determining factor for = moose=20 populations in a large spatial and temporal context. In = many parts of=20 the GYA, a return to an early succes-sional stage represents a = decrease=20 in moose winter habitat that will reduce carrying = capac-ity (Tyers=20 unpublished data). Riparian areas with deciduous vegetation are=20 important foraging areas for moose. They are limited in size = and=20 distribution and are particularly vulnerable to human impacts. = Management=20 of these areas will also play a role in determining moose = population=20 trends. larry pendleton wrote: > As I was sewing up = a pair=20 of moosehide mocs, I started thinking. [ Yes > Dennis, I = know=20 that is strange. ] I don't ever recall reading where = the >=20 mountain men killed and ate a moose. Have any of you found=20 such > documentation ? Were moose not in the Rocky = Mountains at=20 that time ? Were > they not considered fittin vitals = ? So=20 many questions. > Pendleton > >=20 ---------------------- > hist_text list info: <A=20 = href=3D"http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html">http://www.xm= ission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html</A> --------------------= - -- hist_text=20 list info: <A=20 = href=3D"http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html">http://www.xm= ission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html</A> </BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> - ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BF56EB.A24509C0-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 22:08:29 -0500 From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles) Subject: MtMan-List: Re: AMM-List: MOOSE ? Pendleton, You'll like 'em....I have 2 pair of Moose Mocs (brained, deeply smoked) that have lasted me near 5 yrs.. acourse, as some Brothers will attest, I seldome wear 'em... Hell, only Wimmin, the infirm and wee bairn wear foot coverin's when the ground isn;t covered wi' at least 6" of snow... D larry pendleton wrote: > As I was sewing up a pair of moosehide mocs, I started thinking. [ Yes > Dennis, I know that is strange. ] I don't ever recall reading where the > mountain men killed and ate a moose. Have any of you found such > documentation ? Were moose not in the Rocky Mountains at that time ? Were > they not considered fittin vitals ? So many questions. > Pendleton > > -------------------- > Aux Ailments de Pays! - -- "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Period Knives & Iron Accoutrements http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 22:20:21 EST From: BarneyPFife@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: AMM-List: MOOSE ? On a recent SE Alaska trip, from Anchorage to Vancouver, I asked about Moose everywhere, wantin' to see 'em, and was told they didn't inhabit the southern part of the state cuz it was too warm, and that I needed to go north of Fairbanks iff'n I wanted to see any. That would lead me to believe they weren't in the lower 48 (Rockies) neither. Barn - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 19:31:40 -0800 From: JW Stephens <lray@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: AMM-List: MOOSE ? I had one in camp above North Park in the Rockies late September. Curious contraption, those Mooses. Reminded me of a 4-WD truck with it's high center. Haven't seen mention of them in the early shining mtns. in literature that I can recall, though. Seems like Capt. Lewis' bio records would be a good primary source, though. That one is not at hand for me, though. Anyone? B'st'rd BarneyPFife@aol.com wrote: > > On a recent SE Alaska trip, from Anchorage to Vancouver, I asked about Moose > everywhere, wantin' to see 'em, and was told they didn't inhabit the southern > part of the state cuz it was too warm, and that I needed to go north of > Fairbanks iff'n I wanted to see any. That would lead me to believe they > weren't in the lower 48 (Rockies) neither. Barn - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 19:48:29 -0800 From: JW Stephens <lray@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: AMM-List: MOOSE ? Here's a reply that I received. Bobbie <bottiel@dim.com> wrote: > > For some reason, my post to the list doesn't go through, so I'm going to > reply to you personally. > > >I had one in camp above North Park in the Rockies late September. > > The North Park meese were "imported" by the Colorado Division of > Wildlife. If I remember correctly, they were brought in from the > Yellowstone area. There is much debate that the moose were actually not > native to this area, and only periodically wandered in. > > HTH, > > Bobbie - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 20:50:14 -0800 From: JW Stephens <lray@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: AMM-List: MOOSE ? Here's some more from Bobbie. Thanks! Bobbie wrote: > > Thanks for posting my reply. > > Akin to that bit of info, and I hope not too much off-topic, the elk were > completely hunted out of the area that is now Rocky Mountain National Park, > by the turn of the century. There were two "shipments" of elk brought in > from the Yellowstone area, I believe in 1913 and 1914 to repopulate the park. > > About the beaver: my understanding is that they came so close to dying out > that they actually changed their behavior patterns in order to survive. > They were originally diurnal, and became nocturnal. > > Bobbie - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 01:16:27 -0400 From: Bob Spencer <bspen@aye.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: AMM-List: MOOSE ? >On a recent SE Alaska trip, from Anchorage to Vancouver, I asked about Moose >everywhere, wantin' to see 'em, and was told they didn't inhabit the southern >part of the state cuz it was too warm, and that I needed to go north of >Fairbanks iff'n I wanted to see any. That would lead me to believe they >weren't in the lower 48 (Rockies) neither. Barn The National Moose Range is on the Kenai peninsula, and I've seen a lot of them there. Maybe they meant the southeastern part of the state? Bob Bob Spencer <bspen@aye.net> - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 01:09:49 -0500 From: "John L. Allen" <johnlallen@uconn.cted.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Moose The posting from Kurt on the moose was right on target and jibes with the information I've dug out of several biogeography sources. Neither Lewis nor Clark mention, in their journals, having seen a moose. However, on Monday, June 2, 1806, Lewis noted that "the Indians [Chopunnish] inform us that there are a plenty of Moos to the S.E. of them on the East branch of Lewis's river [the Salmon River in Idaho]." This is the only journal reference to this animal but it provides strong evidence that the moose was present in the Montana-Idaho border area in the early 19th century. My paternal grandfather was supervisor of the Shoshone National Forest beginning in 1911 and told me that there were plenty of moose in the northern portion of the forest (the Shoshone River and Clark's Fork of the Yellowstone drainages) when he was with the Forest Service. He also told me that they were relatively recent migrants into the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem (he didn't call it that, but that's what he meant) and that several early ranchers on the North Fork of the Shoshone River reported seeing their first moose in the 1890s. My father-in-law worked for a timber company in the southern part of the Shoshone Forest (the Wind River drainage) in the mid-1930s and I remember him talking about a friend of his who was the first to kill a moose on the Wind River in 1936. To this day, moose do not range naturally range farther south than the southern end of the Wind Rivers. If you know this country, you'll know why. It's hard to imagine a moose crossing the Wyoming Basin to get to what would be good moose range in the Medicine Bow or Sierra Madre mountains. I've always been intrigued that the subspecies of this great deer that we call the "Wyoming" or "Shiras" moose apparently didn't make it to Wyoming until my grandpa was a young man. Our summer home in northwestern Wyoming is in excellent moose range and we rarely go more than a week without seeing two or three of these animals and the evidence they leave of their presence is abundant. John ******************************************************************** Dr. John L. Allen 21 Thomas Drive Storrs, CT 06268 860/487-1346 johnlallen@uconn.cted.net - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 08:45:50 -0500 (EST) From: MedicineWolfe@webtv.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: AMM-List: MOOSE ? I used to live in Anchorage and the Moose used to walk down the streets!(don't know bout the rest of the area) Humbly, M.W. http://community.webtv.net/MedicineWolfe/TheBuckskinnersCabin The road to progress is the path of fools!!! - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 08:15:36 -0800 From: bcunningham@gwe.net (Bill Cunningham) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: AMM-List: MOOSE ? I spent considerable time in Alaska in the late 50s, early 60s. There were moose all over - especially around Anchorage. When I was back for a visit in the late 80s they were still there. It is also my belief that in New England moose were common in the colonial days. Bill C - -----Original Message----- From: BarneyPFife@aol.com <BarneyPFife@aol.com> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Date: Tuesday, January 04, 2000 7:20 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: AMM-List: MOOSE ? >On a recent SE Alaska trip, from Anchorage to Vancouver, I asked about Moose >everywhere, wantin' to see 'em, and was told they didn't inhabit the southern >part of the state cuz it was too warm, and that I needed to go north of >Fairbanks iff'n I wanted to see any. That would lead me to believe they >weren't in the lower 48 (Rockies) neither. Barn > > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #443 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.