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hist_text-digest       Sunday, December 19 1999       Volume 01 : Number 427



In this issue:

-áááááá [none]
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: brain tan
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: brain tan
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: brain tan
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: brain tan
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: brain tan
-áááááá MtMan-List: any other mountain man lists on history?
-áááááá MtMan-List: Trappin...
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: brain tan
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: brain tan
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: brain tan
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: brain tan
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: brain tan
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: brain tan
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: brain tan

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 07:34:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Ronald Schrotter <[e-mail]>
Subject: [none]

Just caught up with the site after being away for a
time, and thought I would put in my 2 cents worth.It
has been quite a while since I was on the ground with
my brothers, but I remember when Thompson Center were
dirty words to the AMM.  There are certainly more
authentic looking guns on the market in the same price
range, especially on trade blankets at any decent
'vous.  The only black powder guns I am familiar with
that carried scopes were civil war sniper rifles, and
they were way too heavy to traipse the woods with.  If
you can't get within 100 yds, you ain't huntin', just
shootin!
     Brain tanned leather is truly a wonder to behold,
but is not the only alternative.  Many of us in the
past used commercial leather or wool, and got by just
fine.  I DO know how, but circumstances prohibit me
from doing it on a regular basis.  To those who do
their own brain-tan, my utmost respect, as to those
who can do decent beading and quill work.  As in the
old days, these can be traded for or bought.  Not all
of our heroes were accomplished in these fields, and
most likely relied more on their native american
friends to supply such items.  I must admit that it
has been too long since I was associated with AMM, and
don't even know what the current requirements for
membership and advancement are, but the quality of the
man, not his outfit should be what he is judged by.
   Finally, on the subject of thread, a lot of time
can be saved by tying sleeves and legs with the
leather scraps left from trimming, spaced several
inches apart.  Judging from what I have seen in
museums it is authentic and looks good too.
    Well, enough of this palaver, may you all have a
good holiday season, and may your camp be warm and
happy.  Dog, Gabe's Hole Brigade

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 10:54:14 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: brain tan

[e-mail] writes:

<< I am even privy to a simple process that will turn such leather into an
almost satisfactory material with almost the same properties, look and feel
of brain tan. >>
Capt. Lahti,

I am in the process of getting my brain tan outfit together, which will take
some time. In the interim what is the simple process to turn my current
leather into "almost satisfactory material". Thanks. I always enjoy your
posts, experience and philosophy on these discussions.

YMOS
Ghosting Wolf

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 08:35:55 -0800
From: "John C. Funk, Jr." <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: brain tan

Don,
You make a very interesting point.
John Funk


- ----- Original Message -----
From: Phyllis and Don Keas <[e-mail]>
To: hist_text <[e-mail]>
Sent: Friday, December 17, 1999 6:42 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: brain tan


         Reply to:   Re: MtMan-List: brain tan
Where does it say that all requirements have to be met after being invited
to join the AMM?
DON AND PHYLLIS KEAS ---LIving History Consultants

R Lahti wrote:
>
>
>[e-mail] wrote:
>> >> [e-mail] writes:
>> > And if we
>> >  waited for some one to join who already had all his equipment and guns
>> >  in perfect authenicism, many of the great guys we have would not of
made
>> >  it in our ranks.
>
>Dave Kanger offers:
>> >> If such a person who already had all his equipment and guns wanted to
join,
>> would he then be expected to meet all the requirements over again during
his
>> probationary period; or, would he receive a waiver.
>> >> Many might not want to have to walk the trail over again.
>
>Brothers and Friends,
>
>This thread sorta got started with some questions from an Associate
>member up here in Wa. I got with him privately and established where he
>was at and what/where he was interested in going. His desire was to
>pursue membership in the AMM and with his Associate membership thought
>he was on the path. I told him that it was my understanding that
>membership was by invitation to worthy men of good will who were new to
>the "Game" but wanted to grow, or "Old Hands" that wanted to continue to
>grow, had never joined yet would benefit and be welcome in the
>Brotherhood. I advised him to take what he already had and build on it
>such that he would have a "kit" that would allow him to move beyond
>where he is right now (just able to fit in to a Shoot/Rendezvous) and
>actually get to a point where he could "get on the ground" with AMM'ers
>in the Northwest Brigade and see if they and what they did was what he
>wanted to do and lastly but not the least let them see if they felt he
>was one who merited an invitation to join and start the process to full
>membership. We have friends in our circle up here who have gone to
>ground with us regularly but have no desire to join thought they would
>qualify easily. They are always welcome in our camps as I was before I
>joined.
>
>Steve was not advised that he had to be in "Full Brain Tan From Head to
>Toes" to be accepted at his first ever AMM event/camp but rather to do
>what he could to come up with a full set of clothing that would do him
>in good stead in a winter camp and should he or we decide he would
>continue the journey, be that much closer to completing the basic
>requirements for Bossloper. I advised that wool would see him into a
>winter camp just fine. I personally would prefer that a new hand or old
>hand wear wool, or other period cloth clothing rather than spend time
>and money on commercial leathers that he will some day wish he had not
>bought. Few of our heroes' went to the mountains fully in buckskin the
>first time.
>
>I came to membership in the AMM not that many winters back as one who
>had been doing it the right way and had done most of the basic
>requirements for Bossloper many times over for the past 25/30 years. As
>a personal challenge to myself I made over many of my personal clothing
>items by hand, redid many of the first 15 requirements and did not ask
>for a waiver. I have helped to sponsor several new brothers into my
>party in the past couple years who have also been accomplished
>mountaineers for decades themselves but just never felt the need to
>join. They are not asking for any waivers but are redoing the
>requirements that all probationary "Pilgrims" are asked to do just as I
>did. >
>A new prospective member with nothing but great potential for becoming a
>valuable member of AMM need not come to the door with all the skills and
>gear of a Bossloper or Hiverano. But I think it a disservice to such a
>fellow to advise him to take shortcuts when he will eventually need to
>or want to have done it right. So the prospective candidate (who is BTW,
>no stranger to the wilderness or wildlife or trapping) but has little in
>the way of proper camp gear and winter clothing was advised to make it
>of wool/other appropriate cloth and make it by hand if possible to get
>that basic requirement out of the way and under his belt and more
>importantly get himself geared up so he could come out and play as our
>guest. >
>BTW, our Brigade has discussed this situation and from the Brigade
>Booshway down feel it not inappropriate for a guest with absolutely no
>proper gear to be invited into camp "to see what it's all about". I
>think the fellow in question would have felt uncomfortable wearing some
>period items of clothing under his down parka and walking around in
>Sorel Packs thus the advice given. Other situations would have called
>for a different approach. >
>I look forward to spending time with this individual "on the Ground" and
>strongly believe that the AMM will grow strong on new blood or will dry
>up and die for the lack of it. I also feel that it's basic requirements
>are worthy of all to accomplish and continue to accomplish from the
>newest member to the oldest. To do otherwise is to cheapen the AMM and
>cheat ourselves and our fellows. I remain...
>
>YMOS
>Capt. Lahti' #1719 >Clerk, Wilson Price Hunt Party, NW Brigade
>AMM
>
>----------------------
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>
>
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 12:16:58 -0600
From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: brain tan

At 10:54 AM 12/18/99 -0500, you wrote:
>
>I am in the process of getting my brain tan outfit together, which will=
 take=20
>some time. In the interim what is the simple process to turn my current=20
>leather into "almost satisfactory material". Thanks. I always enjoy your=20
>posts, experience and philosophy on these discussions.
>
>YMOS
>Ghosting Wolf
>


Get out in the woods and get greasy dirty.  Works every time.

John...
John T. Kramer, maker of:=A0

Kramer's Best Antique Improver
>>>It makes wood wonderful<<<
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 >>>As good as old!<<<

<http://www.kramerize.com/>

mail to: <[e-mail]>=20


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 13:46:04 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Dennis Miles)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: brain tan

Hey all,
 This is how we work it here in the Brigade.(in ref. to Dave Kanger's quiestion
on tasks)
 When you start as a Pilgrim, you start cold, Period....And do 'em as you go, if
you have done 'em before you were invited to join the AMM,  do 'em again....
 I have and I know of many other Brothers that have repeated their requirements
over and over, just due to the nature of their wanderings.. The more you do it,
the better you are at it..
Thanks
Dennis Miles
AMM#1622 Hiveranno
Party Chief, Doc Newell Party
Ohio

- --

"Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
        DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
 Period Knives & Iron Accoutrements
   http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1



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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 14:24:42 -0500
From: "Frank V. Rago" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: brain tan

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis Miles <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 1999 1:46 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: brain tan


> Hey all,
>  This is how we work it here in the Brigade.(in ref. to Dave Kanger's
quiestion
> on tasks)
>  When you start as a Pilgrim, you start cold, Period....And do 'em as you
go, if
> you have done 'em before you were invited to join the AMM,  do 'em
again....
>  I have and I know of many other Brothers that have repeated their
requirements
> over and over, just due to the nature of their wanderings.. The more you
do it,
> the better you are at it..
> Thanks
> Dennis Miles
> AMM#1622 Hiveranno
> Party Chief, Doc Newell Party
> Ohio
>
> --
>
> "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
>         DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
>  Period Knives & Iron Accoutrements
>    http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1
>
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 14:35:41 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: any other mountain man lists on history?

Hello Folks,  I've been enjoying this list.  I'm a history buff on this era
and am wondering if there are any other email lists that have more history
info on them.  Thanks for any info to come down the pike.   justbuglebaby
(elk bowhunter)

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 15:02:55 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: Trappin...

Ho the List,

Some of you boys have seen the jpeg of a wolverine I posted awhile back..=20
I=92ll include it again: http://members.aol.com/swcushing/myhomepage/wolveri=
ne.j
pg
What you can=92t see is the 6ft crater around the black spruce tree the trap=
s=20
are fastened to. Here=92s the story=85

When I snow shoed up to what was left of a cubby set for lynx, I spotted the=
=20
wolverine on the far side of the tree. He was big, doing his best to depart=20
the area, and madder en hell! Thinkin, now would be an excellent time to tak=
e=20
a picture, and wanting him to face me, I called out "YO WOL-(at near the=20
speed of light, the critter went from there to about a foot from my=20
knees)-verine=85. I snapped the pic as I did a full twisting 1 1/2 back flip=
=20
into the willows behind me=85that ended the photo session.
Regaining my composure, I did a quick draw with my side arm (22cal pistol)=20
and lobed in a round, hitting em right between the eyes. At that moment, as=20
my life flashed before me, the CB cap (very low powered 22cal) ricocheted of=
f=20
his forehead=85.. If the wolverine was just pissed before, he now came unglu=
ed!=20
I mean snow, dirt, wood, and frozen chunks of ground were flyin=85but what=20
really got my attention was the God awful howlin and screamin like a gut sho=
t=20
Griz=85and most of it was commin from me!
Anyway, hoping the two #3 coil spring traps held as I reloaded with 22LR=20
slugs(?) =85with shaking hands I opened fire. When the smoke cleared and I=20
opened my eyes, the critter was down=85
As I started the long hike back to camp, I=92m thinkin=85"God, this trappin=20=
stuff=20
sure is fun=85.." =20

Ymos,

Steve

PS: I lived and trapped in Western Alaska for nearly 20 years before we move=
d=20
back to America. That wolverine was the first of only a few but not somethin=
g=20
I=92ll soon forget. As I recall,(1980=92s) wolverine and lynx were selling f=
or=20
around $450 each, fox for near $100, and a blanket beaver for $40. We=92d=20
freeze the beaver carcass, use pieces for bait, or sell em to the Iditarod=20
dog mushers for $25 each. I=92d also give the beaver to a local native lady=20=
to=20
skin=85and all she wanted was the meat in enchange. That was a fair trade ca=
use=20
beaver, and otter, don=92t give up the hide without some hard work skinnin.=20=
The=20
easy money was in Marten and if you were in good country, easy to catch at=20
$40-$70 a piece. A fella could make a livin at it=85.  =20
  =20


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 18:48:49 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: brain tan

In a message dated 12/18/1999 10:29:54 AM Pacific Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< Get out in the woods and get greasy dirty.  Works every time. >>

So right, John!  There's no substitute for hard use to make our equipment &
clothes look "right".  I've been appauled at folks who take a perfectly good
new rifle & beat it with chains & such to make it look old.  Hey -- we're
portraying the period when that rifle was new.  Carry it a few years & use it
hard -- it'll look right.  Kill a deer with it.  Wipe your hands on your
'skins as you gut the deer, just as the old timers did.  You'll get the blood
& grease stains the same way they did.  Personaly, I've got to where I kinda
snicker at folks with shiny clean 'skins -- brain tan or otherwise.  They're
missing the point!

NM

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 19:08:50 -0600
From: Jim Colburn <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: brain tan

WAshtahay-
At 01:46 PM 12/18/99 -0500, you wrote:
>Hey all,
> This is how we work it here in the Brigade.(in ref. to Dave Kanger's
quiestion
>on tasks)
> When you start as a Pilgrim, you start cold, Period....And do 'em as you
go, if
>you have done 'em before you were invited to join the AMM,  do 'em again....
    It was so tempting to write a letter comparing this kind of conduct to
college fraternity initiations, poking fun at anyone who would put up with
this.  But I won't.

    Instead, I'll ask if anyone knows of an organization that really combines
serious historical research with real live feet-on-the-ground woodsrunning
on a more than quarterly or semi-annual basis.  I'd really appreciate
knowing of such a group, even if I can take the time to join right now.  It
would be somehow uplifting to know that wome group somewhere is actually
living up to the spirit and the letter of the high-falutin' words of their
charter.
LongWalker C. du B.


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 20:33:40 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Dennis Miles)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: brain tan

Longwalker.

 We do it more than quarterly or semi-annually, as you put it...
Individually or in a group, we spend a helluva lot of time on the ground.
And I would trust my life with ANY member of the AMM.  PERIOD.n And have on
more than one occasion.
I personally spent better than 3 months of last year in the mountains or in
the woods, both alone or with Brothers.. Mebby you should clarify your
question or ask it more specifically. If you are talking about requirements,
those are bare minimums..
 And I wouldn't want to be a member of a group that I could just "join"....

Dennis Miles
AMM1622 Hiveranno


   "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
          DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
  Period Knives & Iron Accouterments
    http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1
"Knowing How Is Only The Beginning"
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Colburn <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: December 18, 1999 8:08 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: brain tan


> WAshtahay-
> At 01:46 PM 12/18/99 -0500, you wrote:
> >Hey all,
> > This is how we work it here in the Brigade.(in ref. to Dave Kanger's
> quiestion
> >on tasks)
> > When you start as a Pilgrim, you start cold, Period....And do 'em as you
> go, if
> >you have done 'em before you were invited to join the AMM,  do 'em
again....
> It was so tempting to write a letter comparing this kind of conduct to
> college fraternity initiations, poking fun at anyone who would put up with
> this.  But I won't.
>
> Instead, I'll ask if anyone knows of an organization that really combines
> serious historical research with real live feet-on-the-ground woodsrunning
> on a more than quarterly or semi-annual basis.  I'd really appreciate
> knowing of such a group, even if I can take the time to join right now.
It
> would be somehow uplifting to know that wome group somewhere is actually
> living up to the spirit and the letter of the high-falutin' words of their
> charter.
> LongWalker C. du B.
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


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Date: 18 Dec 99 20:20:16 -0700
From: Phyllis and Don Keas <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: brain tan

         Reply to:   Re: MtMan-List: brain tan
I agree with you on the orange leather.  I hate the damn stuff.

DON AND PHYLLIS KEAS ---LIving History Consultants

R Lahti wrote:
>
>
>Mike Moore wrote:
>> =
>> Capt.
>>     One of the bad things about this email is that you can't sit down =
with the
>> person you are talking to and spend a good time discussing an item. =
Like this.
>
>Mike,
>
>Glad you thought my remarks worth repeating. But they are just my
>thoughts and certainly not the last word. Probably the worst part of
>talking this way is not being able to express feelings and not being
>able to immediately rephrase for better understanding. So there is no
>mistake about what I wrote, I was not justifying anything, I assure you.
>I thought I was clarifying that Steve and I have been in private
>conversation on this broad subject and I have been providing him with my
>thoughts and opinions and my best advise as I felt would meet his
>particular situation.  =
>
>I am not his sponsor but would welcome him as my guest. As such, I would
>of course take responsibility for him. He has read what I have written
>to him privately and in general to the list about how I view different
>things and understands what I said and where I am coming from.
>
> My only question is: Why not have
>> Steve wait till a warmer camp and start? It would give him more time to =
have
>> things ready and see what he needs to improve. =
>
>He is welcome to wait until warmer weather. He is no stranger to the
>cold though and only needs to know what it would take to deal with a NW
>winter camp to participate in comfort and not feel out of place. I sense
>from our talks that he does not wish to take shortcuts but would
>appreciate getting a good start on "buckskinning" of any kind. He is
>unique and other new people might be advised differently. =
>
>I don't recall telling him or anyone that commercial tanned leather
>cheapens or lowers the standards of our organization. What I have said
>and what I have heard others say is that it can be an expensive and
>unsatisfying alternative. I have no quarrel with commercially tanned
>leather for  authenticity's sake. I personally don't think the
>commercially tanned "golden buckskin" bears any resemblance to any
>commercial product available in the days of the Fur Trade. From what I
>have read much leather of a commercial ilk was made and moved west.
>Brain Tan is not the only leather ever worn by a frontiersman, just not
>"Chrome Tanned Golden Buckskin". =
>
>Another post posed the question of whether a candidate would be rejected
>were he in such commercial leather. If it were my place to do so, I
>certainly would not reject him on that basis but it is not my place to
>say whether it is the policy of the AMM to make that type of negative
>judgment. If asked I will say what I think is the better way to go
>though. If someone wishes to wear such material after so many have
>advised as to it's negative qualities then they may have at it. I
>thought the bottom line in this organization was the man not what he was
>wearing, in any case. I am even privy to a simple process that will turn
>such leather into an almost satisfactory material with almost the same
>properties, look and feel of brain tan. It will be better but still not
>brain tan. But why bother unless there is no alternative? =
>
>If someone wishes to change their outfit a few times before settling in
>on what is comfortable I surely would not criticize. I certainly have
>done that many times over myself. I wish someone had taken me by the ear
>many years ago and talked to me like a Dutch Uncle and convinced me how
>much money I was ultimately going to waste on chrome tan, split cow and
>etc. before I finally did my first brain tan (which was not a pretty
>sight but infinitely better than the substitutes that had gone before
>and much more personally satisfying). =
>
>Brain tan is the best even if done by a first timer. It is a skill we
>all should have and endorse but it is not for everyone to be a tanner
>nor is it the only material that will serve well. It is not even a
>requirement that one be able to brain tan. It is only one of many skills
>to choose from. I heartily endorse the use of period fabrics and utilize
>them myself where they serve best. I am fortunate to have some brain tan
>articles but there are alternatives and period correct alternatives at
>that. =
>
>As I said, no one is expected to come in full brain tan. Not in my camp
>anyway. And a new person who wishes to see what it's all about is always
>welcome dressed however. Any person who asks my advise or opinion gets
>my best answer and all the alternatives. They deserve no less.
>
>There is nothing wrong with letting probationary members be pilgrims.
>There is nothing wrong with trying to guide them in productive paths
>either. I have seen new people go from talking about it for a year to
>having a basic kit in two weeks so they would fit in, as they wished to
>do on their first trip, realize much more enjoyment than they even
>expected and leave the weekend so fired that their progress in the next
>few months was outstanding. They were not pushed. No one is pushed to do
>anything he is not up to nor should they be. Patience is a virtue and is
>to be encouraged. Our Brigade practices the informal policy of camping
>with a new person somewhere around three times before extending a formal
>invitation to join. That can take patience. Are we still not in
>agreement? =
>
>Certainly a pilgrim/probationary has a year to get his "shit" together
>if he wishes to take it. It ain't going to hurt a damned thing for him
>to use commercial chrome tan while in his pilgrim period. If that is
>what he's got then fine. If he doesn't even have that and yet thinks he
>should be in full leathers and asks what is thought about such before he
>goes out and buy's it, I submit there isn't a damned thing wrong with
>advising him that he surely can find alternatives and is welcome to wait
>until he can make or buy what would work the best. When any of us
>finally get our brain tan we appreciate it all the more for the wait and
>the functionality whether we are Bossloper or not. Hell if we all had
>our "shit together when we were pilgrims.....hell we are all still
>pilgrims or resting on our laurels and going no where. Even the
>Hiveranno's. =
>
>Unless I am not reading it right, the by-laws do not require anyone to
>complete all requirements "after" being invited to join. There are
>certain basic requirements that have to be met before being eligible for
>membership, a certain number of things that must be met by the end of
>the first year and a minimum number of the 20 that have to be met by the
>end of the second year. =
>
>Although this forum does not take the place of setting around a campfire
>it is good to share thoughts as best can be done by thoughtful men of
>good will. Such discussions refine and clarify and sometimes change how
>we think and what we believe. I remain....
>
>A "pilgrim" and =
>YMOS
>Capt. Lahti'
>"Aux Aliments de Pays"
>
>----------------------
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 22:37:27 -0700
From: Allen Hall <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: brain tan

At 07:08 PM 12/18/1999 -0600, you wrote:

>    Instead, I'll ask if anyone knows of an organization that really combines
>serious historical research with real live feet-on-the-ground woodsrunning
>on a more than quarterly or semi-annual basis.

Our party is on the ground at least once a month, all year round.  Not a lot
of talking, just a lot of doing.


Allen Hall #1729 from Fort Hall country


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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 08:48:36 -0600
From: "northwoods" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: brain tan

Interesting comment.
I know of folks who don't participate in any sort of historical reenacting
that I would consider to have all of the spirit, determination, and assorted
valuable life skills that I believe many of the "mountain men" had. I also
know quite a few folks that take a lot of pride in there knowledge of the
past and study it maybe because it puts the present in proper perspective. I
have sometimes met folks that I would consider to have been born perhaps 175
or so years to late. Or maybe the spirit of exploration, dangerous
lifestyles, hard work, and the like is something that you can't pin down to
a certain time frame. There have always been folks that fit into that
category and there always will be.
So what is the ultimate result of making a new member of your club make a
"brain tan" outfit? Seems like the comparison to a college initiation is a
good one.

The desire to emulate and preserve the lifestyles of  people who we admire
that have come before us is definitely an admirable one. Personally I think
the world would be a better place if more folks studied  history because I
think  it puts the present in better perspective. But I often think that to
truly know what life was like for say a "mountain man" greater sacrifices
would have to be made than studying first hand narratives and trying to
dress like them. And going on "camping trips"for a few months of the year
don't quite cut it either.
Some folks will never understand what it would have been like to have lived
back then. I would compare it to certain archeologists today who spend a lot
of time trying to analyze data and doing research and simply don't spend any
time seriously trying to understand what it would have been like to be in
the shoes of the person or persons they are studying.
How many folks who are in the AMM have wintered alone in a remote area with
no contact with folks or resupply? There are folks who do it and its the
only life they know.
I think sometimes folks with the desire to be historically accurate get
carried away and lose site of there true goals and the intent of there
undertaking.

northwoods

- -----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Miles <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Saturday, December 18, 1999 7:35 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: brain tan


>Longwalker.
>
> We do it more than quarterly or semi-annually, as you put it...
>Individually or in a group, we spend a helluva lot of time on the ground.
>And I would trust my life with ANY member of the AMM.  PERIOD.n And have on
>more than one occasion.
>I personally spent better than 3 months of last year in the mountains or in
>the woods, both alone or with Brothers.. Mebby you should clarify your
>question or ask it more specifically. If you are talking about
requirements,
>those are bare minimums..
> And I wouldn't want to be a member of a group that I could just "join"....
>
>Dennis Miles
>AMM1622 Hiveranno
>
>
>   "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
>          DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
>  Period Knives & Iron Accouterments
>    http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1
>"Knowing How Is Only The Beginning"
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Jim Colburn <[e-mail]>
>To: <[e-mail]>
>Sent: December 18, 1999 8:08 PM
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: brain tan
>
>
>> WAshtahay-
>> At 01:46 PM 12/18/99 -0500, you wrote:
>> >Hey all,
>> > This is how we work it here in the Brigade.(in ref. to Dave Kanger's
>> quiestion
>> >on tasks)
>> > When you start as a Pilgrim, you start cold, Period....And do 'em as
you
>> go, if
>> >you have done 'em before you were invited to join the AMM,  do 'em
>again....
>> It was so tempting to write a letter comparing this kind of conduct to
>> college fraternity initiations, poking fun at anyone who would put up
with
>> this.  But I won't.
>>
>> Instead, I'll ask if anyone knows of an organization that really combines
>> serious historical research with real live feet-on-the-ground
woodsrunning
>> on a more than quarterly or semi-annual basis.  I'd really appreciate
>> knowing of such a group, even if I can take the time to join right now.
>It
>> would be somehow uplifting to know that wome group somewhere is actually
>> living up to the spirit and the letter of the high-falutin' words of
their
>> charter.
>> LongWalker C. du B.
>>
>>
>> ----------------------
>> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>>
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 10:13:42 -0500
From: "Frank V. Rago" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: brain tan

I am not a member of the AMM but with all this talk I just zipped on over to
the website and read through the requ. to be a member.  Let me know if I am
wrong but the requirement that I read was that one had to make his own
handstitched clothing, the only brain tan requ. was that you would have to
make some brain tan. I would love to own a set of brain tan buckskins but
the only way I am going to get them is to make them myself.  Now I have
started and have realized it is a bit of work.    My first skin did not turn
out as planned but it will make a real nice quiver and possibles bags and a
variety of other stuff.  I must try again and be successful, but until then
I am satisfied with my chem. tanned leggins that have been mistaked for
brain tanned by those who do not know any better, woodsmoke, dirt, grease
and coffee stains makes them really realistic, matter of fact the gents who
do braintan have had to feel them once or twice to determine.

As I understand a pilgrim could make his leggins, breechcloth, and hand sew
his longhunter style shirt. make a pair of mocs and he is ready to go and
that brain tan buckskins although they would be exc. to have they really are
not required.

It really is funny that when reading the requirements I have noticed that I
have done a majority of them, the outings I am not up to par on but that
will come with time and acceptance from other family members.




- ----- Original Message -----
From: northwoods <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Sunday, December 19, 1999 9:48 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: brain tan


> Interesting comment.
> I know of folks who don't participate in any sort of historical reenacting
> that I would consider to have all of the spirit, determination, and
assorted
> valuable life skills that I believe many of the "mountain men" had. I also
> know quite a few folks that take a lot of pride in there knowledge of the
> past and study it maybe because it puts the present in proper perspective.
I
> have sometimes met folks that I would consider to have been born perhaps
175
> or so years to late. Or maybe the spirit of exploration, dangerous
> lifestyles, hard work, and the like is something that you can't pin down
to
> a certain time frame. There have always been folks that fit into that
> category and there always will be.
> So what is the ultimate result of making a new member of your club make a
> "brain tan" outfit? Seems like the comparison to a college initiation is a
> good one.
>
> The desire to emulate and preserve the lifestyles of  people who we admire
> that have come before us is definitely an admirable one. Personally I
think
> the world would be a better place if more folks studied  history because I
> think  it puts the present in better perspective. But I often think that
to
> truly know what life was like for say a "mountain man" greater sacrifices
> would have to be made than studying first hand narratives and trying to
> dress like them. And going on "camping trips"for a few months of the year
> don't quite cut it either.
> Some folks will never understand what it would have been like to have
lived
> back then. I would compare it to certain archeologists today who spend a
lot
> of time trying to analyze data and doing research and simply don't spend
any
> time seriously trying to understand what it would have been like to be in
> the shoes of the person or persons they are studying.
> How many folks who are in the AMM have wintered alone in a remote area
with
> no contact with folks or resupply? There are folks who do it and its the
> only life they know.
> I think sometimes folks with the desire to be historically accurate get
> carried away and lose site of there true goals and the intent of there
> undertaking.
>
> northwoods
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dennis Miles <[e-mail]>
> To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
> Date: Saturday, December 18, 1999 7:35 PM
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: brain tan
>
>
> >Longwalker.
> >
> > We do it more than quarterly or semi-annually, as you put it...
> >Individually or in a group, we spend a helluva lot of time on the ground.
> >And I would trust my life with ANY member of the AMM.  PERIOD.n And have
on
> >more than one occasion.
> >I personally spent better than 3 months of last year in the mountains or
in
> >the woods, both alone or with Brothers.. Mebby you should clarify your
> >question or ask it more specifically. If you are talking about
> requirements,
> >those are bare minimums..
> > And I wouldn't want to be a member of a group that I could just
"join"....
> >
> >Dennis Miles
> >AMM1622 Hiveranno
> >
> >
> >   "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
> >          DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
> >  Period Knives & Iron Accouterments
> >    http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1
> >"Knowing How Is Only The Beginning"
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: Jim Colburn <[e-mail]>
> >To: <[e-mail]>
> >Sent: December 18, 1999 8:08 PM
> >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: brain tan
> >
> >
> >> WAshtahay-
> >> At 01:46 PM 12/18/99 -0500, you wrote:
> >> >Hey all,
> >> > This is how we work it here in the Brigade.(in ref. to Dave Kanger's
> >> quiestion
> >> >on tasks)
> >> > When you start as a Pilgrim, you start cold, Period....And do 'em as
> you
> >> go, if
> >> >you have done 'em before you were invited to join the AMM,  do 'em
> >again....
> >> It was so tempting to write a letter comparing this kind of conduct to
> >> college fraternity initiations, poking fun at anyone who would put up
> with
> >> this.  But I won't.
> >>
> >> Instead, I'll ask if anyone knows of an organization that really
combines
> >> serious historical research with real live feet-on-the-ground
> woodsrunning
> >> on a more than quarterly or semi-annual basis.  I'd really appreciate
> >> knowing of such a group, even if I can take the time to join right now.
> >It
> >> would be somehow uplifting to know that wome group somewhere is
actually
> >> living up to the spirit and the letter of the high-falutin' words of
> their
> >> charter.
> >> LongWalker C. du B.
> >>
> >>
> >> ----------------------
> >> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >>
> >
> >
> >----------------------
> >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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