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Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 19:00:55 -0700
From: Mike Moore <amm1616@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Trappers
Laura,
I have been holding on to your request for names of trappers for your upcoming book. While many have given you their list already, I hope my input is not too late. There are many colorful characters to write about and the ones I would choose are( in no special order):
old Bill Willaims
Jedediah Smith
Jim Bridger
One or more of the Bent Brothers
Willaim Ashley
John Coulter
John Smith
Etienne Provost
George Ruxton
Laura, thse are a wide mix of men. Some regular trappers- others important in other areas (writers, fort builders and guides) and which cover the whole time frame. They are are very colorful characters, easy to write about and INTERESTING. All are not well known or if they are only about part of their lives. Anyway, hope this is a help. The area of writing you are doing this on
is of interest for me, since I started my interest in history as a young boy of maybe 7 or 8 picking up a book on Kit Carson in the school library. Good Luck.
mike.
Laura Glise wrote:
> 6:00 p.m. PST
>
> I would like help from the list with my latest project.
>
> I am writing a non-fiction book for young adults (interest level grade 4 and up) on the American fur trade. As an educator I know first-hand that most history books for young adults skip from Lewis and Clark to the Oregon Trail. Textbooks skip this important time in our nation's history and, with the exception of Bridger and maybe Beckworth, there aren't biographies on the shelves.
>
> Part of the book will include biographies on 7-10 trappers.
>
> I am interested in list member's opinions on which mountaineers should be included. Please contact me off the list with your ideas
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
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Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 22:29:25 -0500
From: "Laura Glise" <lglise@bellsouth.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: Trappers
Mike:
Thank you for taking the time to respond to my request. I had not received a nomination for one or more of the Bent Brothers, or George Ruxton. I will study their lives with interest.
It pleases me to hear your comment that you became a lover of history at seven or eight. With no prior desire to teach, I became an educator and a children's librarian. When my young boys were in first grade they wanted books on jellyfish and fire house dogs. When the same young boys became young men they wanted adventure and "disaster" books. I say they wanted, more accurately, they craved, stories of courage, adventure, and bravery.
This may, indeed, be off topic. But I see a hunger in children, especially boys, for what was once categorized as growing up . . . . proudly carrying a pocket knife, popping a firecracker, playing cowboys and Indians. All these things are now politically incorrect and subversive. Leaves little room for the imagination, and a proud place for the body to grow into.
I promised the boys I mentored that before they got out of high school I would write a book for them that would help them grow up. I can't really think of a better way than educating them in the ways that young trappers grew into men, confronting adversity and fear, in the face. Our children now face a different fear but many do not learn, at home, how to look down the barrel.
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Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 23:37:28 -0500
From: "Laura Glise" <lglise@bellsouth.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: Trappers
Mike:
There was one more point I wanted to make in my reference to the young boys that are trying to grow into men now . . . many of them are growing up without men in their lives. Grandfathers or fathers. Only males that drop into and out of their lives all too quickly. A watered down lineage that breaks the heart. It's hard to grow into manhood without a proper role model. Even an inspiring book about mountaineers and the lives they led doesn't stand up to a firm handshake and the understanding of the concept of what a "man's word" means.
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Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 21:34:15 -0800
From: randybublitz@juno.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Trappers
Laura, I agree with you wholeheartedly. I want to scream every time I
hear some 'talking head' speak of the lack of 'American heroes' for
todays youth. Our rich History is packed full of wonderful heroes. All
one needs to do to discover them is to read. Unfortunately the
educational system has become so dumbed down, TV and video games have
become so popular, and our history has been so disparaged that our youth
are completely unaware of the multitude of heroes who made this country
great. More power to you for trying to enlighten the young.
Hardtack
Your Second Amendment Rights protect ALL of your other Rights, Don't give
up your Rights
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Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 10:06:47 -0500
From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles)
Subject: MtMan-List: AMM AUCTION`
Hello and excuse the interuption in the scheduled programming.
Just a quick reminder. 12 hrs to go on the AMM AUCTION
<www.wesnet.com/deforge1/Auction.htm>
Still some great bargains, and at EXACTLY 10P.M. E.S.T. I will pull the
site and no bids will be accepted after that time.
Thanks for y'alls support and help..
D
- --
"Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
Period Knives & Iron Accoutrements
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Date: 5 Dec 1999 08:14:00 -0800
From: Buck <buck.conner@uswestmail.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Trappers
On Sat, 04 December 1999, Mike Moore wrote:
>
> Laura,
> I have been holding on to your request for names of trappers for your upcoming book. While many have given you their list already, I hope my input is not too late. There are many colorful characters to write about and the ones I would choose are( in no special order):
> old Bill Willaims
> Jedediah Smith
> Jim Bridger
> One or more of the Bent Brothers
> Willaim Ashley
> John Coulter
> John Smith
> Etienne Provost
> George Ruxton
- -------------------------------------------
Laura,
When putting your list together for possible characters don't forget the businessmen (if they didn't provide an outlet to move the trappers goods none of this as we know it would have happened). Look at the lives of John Jacob Astor, the Bent's, several that stayed in the east like Tryon (a hardware firm, gun manufacturer and supplier - still in business today)or Saint Louis has several that started in the fur trade and are still going, the ones that where behind the trade it's self.
A good example today, John Jacob Astor (the 6th,7th,8th not sure which number) has been involved with the rebuilding of Ft. Union, he knows where the family wealth was made originally - in the fur trade, then real estate. Seems many of this family have left out the first step in, the fur trade.
Later,
Buck Conner
_________________________________
Personal :http://home.att.net/~buck.conner/personal.html
Business :http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
AMM Party:http://klesinger.com/jbp/jbp.html
_________________________________
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Date: 5 Dec 1999 08:26:20 -0800
From: Buck <buck.conner@uswestmail.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Anyone make meat with their muzzleloader ?
On Sat, 04 December 1999, Concho Smith wrote:
Got a nice 9 point eastern count, I know guys in the west thats a weak 4 point. Don't comment Turtle or Buck, I don't want to hear .....
OH BOY, we shot another baby (only kidding have done the same many times when growing up there), why don't you come and hunt with me in Jan. 2000 Concho, snow to butt, modern season (we still use muzzleloaders anyway), a correct period sled to pull game out with, the whole deal. With any luck an average mulie will be double the size of your PA whitetail, even our whitetails out do their counterparts.
I keep waiting for this Fish & Game Dept. to wakeup and push whitetail hunting and look at a new breeding program like PA did in the late 50's and early 60's with northern white tails, now there's some serious game animals.
> Just took a fast look at the internet and see Wendy has finished your personal page Buck,.......
Have another 25-30 articles to add, then want to start a "family tree" web site as the rest of the bunch sit on their thumbs.
Later,
Buck Conner
_________________________________
Personal :http://home.att.net/~buck.conner/personal.html
Business :http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
AMM Party:http://klesinger.com/jbp/jbp.html
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Date: 5 Dec 99 14:03:49 EST
From: Concho Smith <conchosmith@netscape.net>
Subject: Re: [Re: MtMan-List: Trappers]
Buck <buck.conner@uswestmail.net> wrote:
- -------------------------------------------
Laura,
When putting your list together for possible characters don't forget the
businessmen (if they didn't provide an outlet to move the trappers goods =
none
of this as we know it would have happened). Look at the lives of John Jac=
ob
Astor, the Bent's, several that stayed in the east like Tryon (a hardware=
firm, gun manufacturer and supplier - still in business today)or Saint Lo=
uis
has several that started in the fur trade and are still going, the ones t=
hat
where behind the trade it's self.
A good example today, John Jacob Astor (the 6th,7th,8th not sure which nu=
mber)
has been involved with the rebuilding of Ft. Union, he knows where the fa=
mily
wealth was made originally - in the fur trade, then real estate. Seems ma=
ny of
this family have left out the first step in, the fur trade.
Later,
Buck
_____________________________________
Good point, probably why so many have been missed is they led normal live=
s
with day to day routines of the business, not the exciting events we all =
like
to read about like Smith, Bridger, etc. - they are the ones that sell the=
books. Not someone placing orders, making a product, etc.
Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.=20
john kramer@kramerize.com =20
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Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 16:23:41 -0500
From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles)
Subject: MtMan-List: AMM AUCTION (AGAIN)
Hi all,
Just a quick word...If you haven't checked the Auction in the last 5
minutes and think you still have that high bid on an item, better check
again.. The bids are a flyin' like lead at a Blackfoot...
Thanks
D
- --
"Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
Period Knives & Iron Accoutrements
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Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 16:36:23 -0500
From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles)
Subject: Re: [Re: MtMan-List: Anyone make meat with their muzzleloader ?]
Concho Wrote:
Why didn't you mention this at Thanksgiving when I was at your place,apparently more than one
turkey at the table, right Dennis M. ?
>>Concho, as much as I would like to chime in on this, I won't.. You see, Buck is patiently
waiting for a knife, and I don't wanna rile the ol' coot.. If you catch my drift..<G>
D
"Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
Period Knives & Iron Accoutrements
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Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 16:50:43 -0500
From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles)
Subject: Re: [Re: MtMan-List: Anyone make meat with their muzzleloader ?]
Hi,
Gee, I mis-spoke.. I MEANT "Silver Haired Gentleman"...
D
Dennis Miles wrote:
> ol' coot..
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Date: 5 Dec 1999 15:16:24 -0800
From: Buck <buck.conner@uswestmail.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: 1999 Xmas Greeting
1999 Xmas Greeting from Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
At this wonerful time of the year, remember those of the past and present, loved ones and friends, God Bless them all. We've given you a little history of what was going on with the Corp of Discovery under the direction of Lewis & Clark.
On Christmas Eve, the temperature climbed above zero - and almost above freezing. Fort Mandan was deemed officially complete, and the captains handed out dried apples, pepper, and extra flour for the next day's meal and celebration.
Just before Christmas dawn, the captains were awakened by the men, all if them, Clark noted, "merrily disposed."
************
December 25th, 1804.
We ushed [in] the morning with a discharge of the Swivvel [gun], and one round of Small arms of all the party.
Then another from the Swivvel. Then Capt. Clark presented a glass of brandy to each man of the party. We hoisted the american flag, and each man had another Glass of brandy.
The men prepared one of the rooms and commenced dancing. At 10 o'c [lock] we had another Glass of brandy, at one a gun was fired as a Signal for diner. Half past two another gun was fired to assemble at the dance, and So we kept it up in a jov[ia]l manner untill eight o'c[lock] at night, all without the company of the female Seck [sex]. Joseph Whitehouse
The mandans were asked not to visit the fort on Christmas because, the captains explained, it was a "great medicine" day for the expedition. But on New Year's, the men celebrated with their Indian hosts.
************
January 1st, 1806.
Our repast of this day, tho' better than that of Cristmass, consisted principally in the anticipation of the 1st day of January 1807, when in the bosom of our friends we hope to participate in the mirth and hilarity of the day, and when with the zest given by the recollection of the present, we shall completely, both mentally and corporally, enjoy the repast which the hand of civilization has prepared for us. MERIWETHER LEWIS
Men were put to work making candles, boiling ocean water for salt, preserving elk meat in a smokehouse, and sewing clothes from elk hides for the return trip home.
Clark labored over a new map that would replace eastern speculation with the hard facts of western geography.
Lewis wrote page after page of descriptions of animals and plants unknown to science-from the giant sitka spruce tree to the evergreen huckleberry; from ring-necked ducks and whistling swans to small smelt-the candlefish-that the men roasted and ate whole.
For a new year it seems things are well with our early travelers, fed and full of thoughts of returning home.
In the next life may we experience such an adventure, and may God see us fit enough to handle the chore.
The Conner's
dba/ Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc. http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
************
Later,
Buck Conner
_________________________________
Personal :http://home.att.net/~buck.conner/personal.html
Business :http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
AMM Party:http://klesinger.com/jbp/jbp.html
_________________________________
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Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 16:28:24 +0000
From: The Sweeneys <angus@lostsierra.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: Packs
Hello List,
Being a horse poor mountaineer that travels by foot and occasionally by
canoe, can anyone tell me what type of pack was most common for during the
1820-1840 era. All the info I can find on packs refer to the type used
during the French and Indian War, were these still being used? Any info
would be greatly appreciated. See you down the trail.
Mick
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Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 21:32:20 -0500
From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles)
Subject: MtMan-List: AUCTION
Once agin, Pardon the intrusion, this is my last..<G>
The AMM AUCTION closes in 1/2 hr. (10 P.M E.S.T.)
Thai is the time to slide that last minute bid in...
www.wesnet.com/deforge1/Auction.htm
Thanks
D
- --
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DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
Period Knives & Iron Accoutrements
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Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 21:59:48 -0500
From: "Laura Glise" <lglise@bellsouth.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: Trappers/Traders
I agree about the inclusion of traders, and I also agree that most of their lives were pale in comparison with the lives of trappers.
Lanney loaned me his copy of Fur traders, trappers, and mountain men of the Upper Missouri/edited by LeRoy R. Hafen, introduction to the Bison edition by Scott Eckberg. I enjoyed reading about Frances Ermatinger's style, and have followed his footsteps in Oregon and visited the home that Chief Factor McLoughlin built for him in Oregon City.
I also enjoyed reading about David Dawson Mitchell. Do you know he got the $1,000 he needed for supplies for his men by escorting a wealthy senora to a ball? Perks the imagination doesn't it?
Kenneth McKenzie of the American Fur Company, Head of the Upper Missouri outfit's hospitality of serving iced wine in buckets to his guests.
And, I know Dennis Miles will enjoy this one - William Laidlaw, described by Audubon as a "true Scot and apparently a clean one."
