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From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #404 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Thursday, November 4 1999 Volume 01 : Number 404 In this issue: -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Blankets -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Blankets -áááááá MtMan-List: Fw: Across the Seasons Manuscript - Auction -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Blankets -áááááá MtMan-List: packs vs. haversacks -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: packs vs. haversacks -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: packs vs. haversacks -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: packs vs. haversacks -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: packs vs. haversacks -áááááá MtMan-List: Sitting inside -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: packs vs. haversacks -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: packs vs. haversacks -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Sitting inside -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: packs vs. haversacks -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Sitting inside -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: packs vs. haversacks -áááááá RE: MtMan-List: packs vs. haversacks -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: packs vs. haversacks -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: packs vs. haversacks -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Sitting inside ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 16:20:19 +0000 From: R Lahti <lahtirog@gte.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Blankets SWcushing@aol.com wrote: > > With all this talk of washing blankets..... > > .....how come sheep don't shrink when it rains? SW, They do shrink if you wash them in really hot water! It's never too early for these kinds of questions. Just think what would have happened if you hadn't asked and went ahead and washed your sheep in hot water. Look where you would be now. With a bunch of poodles that eat grass and stink real bad when they get wet. I remain... YMOS Capt. Lahti' - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 21:12:38 EST From: WSmith4100@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Blankets not quite related to rainy sheep, but close....... while watching the news, with my wife the other night, my 5 yr old daughter saw the blurb about the wooly mammoth found in the ice, intact! She turned to my wife and declared, "Well, I guess that's one that didn't make it on the ark!" Out of the mouths of babes... ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ "Sleeps Loudly" - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 20:36:21 -0600 From: "Ratcliff" <rat@htcomp.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Fw: Across the Seasons Manuscript - Auction Hi Folks This is from the manuscript of "Across the Seasons" currently on the = Auction Site. As Laura says, you may want to print this out to make = reading easier.=20 YMOS Lanney - ----- Original Message -----=20 From: <Wind1838@aol.com> To: <rat@htcomp.net> Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 1999 4:57 PM Subject: Across the Seasons Manuscript - Auction > Lanney: >=20 > I'm going to read a portion of my manuscript aloud tonight at a = Writers'=20 > Roundtable in Washington. I wish you and some of the friends I have = made on=20 > the list were there to "watch my back." I thought I'd like to send = the list=20 > what I'm going to read tonight. After I read, Native Americans and = animal=20 > rights advocates may run me out of the place. For the sake of time I = have=20 > skipped some paragraphs in the Chapter. List members might want to = print=20 > this out rather than trying to read on line. >=20 > Thanks for forwarding this to the list, with my thanks to all that = have=20 > helped me during the last year and, Lanney, for your information the=20 > politically correct term is "woman's book," not a "chick book." >=20 > Fair weather to you, Laura Jean > Wind1838@aol.com >=20 > Chapter 19 page 278 >=20 > They rode hard all day. Late afternoon they arrived at the = location=20 > Russell had been telling her about for two days. He was true to his = word,=20 > Sarah saw the panoramic view of the five mountain ranges and felt = their raw=20 > power. She had been drawn to the mountains as if they were a magnet. = By=20 > rising above the dwellings of men, she had left behind all low and = earthly=20 > regions. She had climbed above herself. She had seen pictures of the = earth=20 > from the moon, but she had never witnessed the infinite horizon line = of the=20 > life God had given her. She felt as though God, like her Father when = she was=20 > a small child, had hoisted her on His shoulders to gaze at His = handiwork. =20 > She was reminded of Genesis, "On the second day God created the land, = and it=20 > was good." >=20 > The mountains, each slightly different in their persona, were=20 > overwhelming in their size and grandeur; a great presence seemed to = hover over=20 > the ranges. They possessed unimaginable mystery and splendor, and = were the=20 > home of the fierce, powerful, natural elements beyond human control: = and the=20 > dangerous haunts of the gods. As far as she could see the horizon = receded in=20 > the distance, revealing ridge after ridge of mountain ranges without = end; a=20 > pathway to heaven, to the moon, and to the stars. Ruskin described = mountains=20 > as great cathedrals of the earth, with their gates of rock, pavements = of=20 > cloud, choirs of stream and stone, altars of snow, and vaults of = purple=20 > traversed by continual stars. Soon Albert Bierdstadt would capture = the=20 > rugged wildness of the Rockies in his paintings, and America would = have its=20 > first glimpse of their majestic grandeur.=20 >=20 > Perhaps it was the danger inherent in the mountains that fueled the = mythology=20 > of their wild regions. Sarah was sure it was not simply financial = gain that=20 > brought mountaineers like Russell to the Shining Mountains. Careless = individuals did=20 > not live long , a slight mistake or a disregard for the weather could = cost a man his=20 > life. >=20 > "Think of the years that went by," said Russell in a whisper, "without = any=20 > man watching." >=20 > It occurred to Sarah, as she watched him turn full-circle to once = again=20 > admire the breathtaking view, that the mountains were his mistress. = He=20 > worshiped her beauty and he took time and great care to explore her = hidden=20 > secrets, and to pleasure her with his devotion. >=20 > "We're in luck." He pointed east. >=20 > Sarah saw a village of fifteen or twenty tipis. Their tall lodge = poles=20 > rising into the sky looked like the teeth of a comb against the = setting sun. =20 > Six young warriors rode at full speed to meet them, their hair flying = like=20 > jet black streamers in the wind. Feathers dangled from their horses' = manes=20 > and tails. They yelled as they approached and exchanged words with = Russell. =20 > They eyed Sarah keenly, turned their horses, and sped back to their = village;=20 > their shouts and yells fading as they rode away. >=20 > As they entered the village small boys ran to greet them waving little = bows=20 > and arrows. The entire village crowded around their horses eager to = see=20 > their trapper friend and his White woman. When the sun went down, = half the=20 > sky was a fiery red. The young men left the village and returned = driving a=20 > large herd of horses of every size, age, and color. Kettles were hung = over=20 > camp fires. Young women were tossing children in the air on a buffalo = robe. =20 > The coverings of the lodges fluttered in the wind. Children enjoyed = the last=20 > light of day, while their mothers visited and prepared the evening = meal. The=20 > camp was filled with the low hum of cheerful voices. Sarah and = Russell were=20 > escorted to a lodge in the center of the village. . . . . . . (skip to = page=20 > 281) >=20 > The chief began a highly agitated tale. Sarah sat silently, watching = his=20 > animated gestures without the slightest idea what he was saying. The = chief=20 > told Russell about a recent attack on two of the village's young men = by a war=20 > party of Blackfeet Indians. One of the young men was wounded when = shot with=20 > the enemies' arrows. The other was chased up the side of a mountain,=20 > surrounded by his attackers, and scalped alive. They cut the tendons = of=20 > their captives' wrists and feet and threw them in a fire, then pinned = them in=20 > the flames with long poles, until they burned to death. >=20 > Russell responded in a sympathetic tone to his host's story. > =20 > "What did he say," asked Sarah. >=20 > "He said they've had some trouble with the Blackfeet," he answered = without=20 > elaboration. . . . . . . (skip ahead) >=20 > Sarah noticed a litter of seven rust-colored puppies sleeping together = in a=20 > heap, nestled among some buffalo robes. A woman entered the gathering = > carrying a mallet of stone affixed to the handle by a covering of = rawhide. =20 > She grabbed one of the puppies by the hind leg and carried him = yelping, out=20 > of the entrance of the lodge. In the doorway the woman swiftly = clubbed the=20 > animal in the head until it was dead. Russell's expression never = changed. =20 > He put his hand on Sarah's, patting it nonchalantly, speaking to her = in a=20 > whisper through a forced smile. >=20 > "A dog feast is the greatest compliment to be offered a guest. It is=20 > considered an insult for a stranger, White man or Indian, to return = any=20 > portion of the food which is offered him. If we don't eat all that is = set=20 > before us we'll have to take the remainder with us when we leave." >=20 > Sarah nodded, smiling back at him and their hosts. Through a hole in = the=20 > back of the lodge she could see the woman, holding the puppy by the = legs,=20 > swinging it back and forth through the fire until all of its hair was = singed=20 > off. She looked away when the Indian woman unsheathed her knife and = began to=20 > butcher the dog into small pieces, dropping each piece into a kettle = to boil. >=20 > Within fifteen minutes the woman returned with a large wooden dish = filled=20 > with meat, and a cake of dried meat and fruit pounded together and = mixed with=20 > buffalo marrow. The women had prepared a boiled flour pudding with = dried=20 > fruit and a sauce made of berry juice and sugar. They ate from crude = wooden=20 > bowls. Their gracious hostess served them with a ladle from a = big-horn=20 > sheep. Sarah took a deep breath and reminded herself that she had = eaten=20 > horse in Greece, guinea pigs in South America, and alligator in = Florida, but=20 > she had never eaten an animal whose mother slept unsuspectingly in the = room. >=20 > # # # # # - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 19:22:20 -0800 (PST) From: George Noe <gnoe39@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Blankets Just the wool shrinks, where do you think we get GOATS ??? - --- R Lahti <lahtirog@gte.net> wrote: > SWcushing@aol.com wrote: > > > > With all this talk of washing blankets..... > > > > .....how come sheep don't shrink when it > rains? > > SW, > > They do shrink if you wash them in really hot water! > It's never too > early for these kinds of questions. Just think what > would have happened > if you hadn't asked and went ahead and washed your > sheep in hot water. > Look where you would be now. With a bunch of poodles > that eat grass and > stink real bad when they get wet. I remain... > > YMOS > Capt. Lahti' > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ===== George R. Noe< gnoe39@yahoo.com > Watch your back trail, and keep your eyes on the skyline. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 23:08:51 -0700 From: Allen Hall <allenhall@srv.net> Subject: MtMan-List: packs vs. haversacks Hello the list, Well, I think we've worked over the blankets pretty good. Here's a new one for you. Do you prefer a haversack or a backpack for being out on foot? Why, and details about what you use (size/weight/materials used in construction, etc). I'm sure everyone will be interested. Thanks in advance, Allen Hall out in Fort Hall country - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 22:19:36 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Newbill <lnewbill@uidaho.edu> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: packs vs. haversacks On Wed, 3 Nov 1999, Allen Hall wrote: > Well, I think we've worked over the blankets pretty good. > Here's a new one for you. Do you prefer a haversack or a backpack for being > out on foot? Why, and details about what you use (size/weight/materials > used in construction, etc). Egads Allen! That's what horses are for. I was a looking at a pack basket myself for those times when horses aren't practical. I 've used a large (two actually) haversack for hunting and short jaunts, but they just don't hold enough for my taste. Problem is... since I'm trying to stay true to the period of 1810 or so, not much mention is made of packs other than soldiers packs and the famous 90 lb packs carried over portages by the voyagers. Seems like everytime the NWC or HBC left a post for a jaunt, they averaged 5 horses or more per man. No mention of packs. Regards Lee Newbill of Viola, Idaho Clerk of the Hog Heaven Muzzleloaders lnewbill@uidaho.edu : http://www.geocities.com/~lnewbill - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 22:39:32 -0800 From: randybublitz@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: packs vs. haversacks Allen, I have experimented with many different styles of carrying way too much stuff. I have found several methods which work well. Depending on length, type of trek, etc... some work better than others. On a 1-2 day trip a simple haversack works well. I become annoyed at too many straps criss crossing my body. Canteen, haversack, shooting pouch, powder horn, bed roll strap...TOO many darned straps. I use a belt pouch for shooting bag. I can carry a small powder horn in it. If I'm carrying a comfortable camp I use a back pack ,with bed roll tied on top of it. Recently I have made myself a set of saddle bags, with matching pommel bags. I made it so the pommel bags tie to the sadle bags. I like this arrangement as it gives me two larger bags, and two smaller bags- all in one unit. I don't have a horse, so I carry them over my shoulder. At a walk in event I carry this set over one shoulder, and my bedroll strap over the other shoulder. Pistol, axe, knife, pouch are all on my belt. Longer gun is in my mitts. Tom Nichols , in Ca., makes a neat rawhide box back pack. I have one of them and it works quite well. It is a 19" x 12" x 8" rawhide box with shoulder straps. The hair is left on against your back. My favorite is the saddle bags, because it's easier to organize ones gear with the 4 different bags. I'm interested in hearing of others set ups.... Hardtack Your Second Amendment Rights protect ALL of your other Rights, Don't give up your Rights - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 21:24:30 +1300 From: Duncan Macready <Duncanm@ihug.co.nz> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: packs vs. haversacks Allen wrote: >. Do you prefer a haversack or a backpack for being >out on foot? Why, and details about what you use (size/weight/materials >used in construction, etc). On this tack , are the basket backpacks sold by Track of the Wolf, authentic in style if not construction? YMOS Cutfinger Friendships made,Problems shared Campfires across the wilderness. Auckland, New Zealand - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 07:02:00 -0800 From: "larry pendleton" <yrrw@airmail.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: packs vs. haversacks This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BF2692.7DC052A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Allen, Backpacks vs, haversacks is really a matter of personal preference. = As for as authenticity, it depends on where you are. [ historically ] I've never been able to make a packbasket work. It seems to always be = too big or not big enough. If you're going to a packbasket so you can = carry more stuff, beware. You can overload yourself real quick. This = may sound funny, but when you're loading a packbasket hold the basket in = one hand and put stuff in it with the other hand. When you can't hold = the thing up comfortably with one hand, STOP LOADING. At that point = you've got about all the stuff you will want to carry for and extended = period taking in consideration you're going to add a knife, shooting = bag, powderhorn, rifle, axe, etc. Hope this helps. Pendleton=20 -----Original Message----- From: Duncan Macready <Duncanm@ihug.co.nz> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Date: Thursday, November 04, 1999 12:28 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: packs vs. haversacks =20 =20 Allen wrote: >. Do you prefer a haversack or a backpack for being >out on foot? Why, and details about what you use = (size/weight/materials >used in construction, etc). =20 On this tack , are the basket backpacks sold by Track of the Wolf,=20 authentic in style if not construction? =20 =20 YMOS Cutfinger Friendships made,Problems shared Campfires across the wilderness. Auckland, New Zealand =20 ---------------------- hist_text list info: = http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BF2692.7DC052A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#b8b8b8> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Allen,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT><FONT size=3D2> = Backpacks vs,=20 haversacks is really a matter of personal preference. As for as=20 authenticity, it depends on where you are. [ historically ]</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2> I've never been able to make a packbasket = work. =20 It seems to always be too big or not big enough. If you're going = to a=20 packbasket so you can carry more stuff, beware. You can overload = yourself=20 real quick. This may sound funny, but when you're loading a = packbasket=20 hold the basket in one hand and put stuff in it with the other = hand. When=20 you can't hold the thing up comfortably with one hand, STOP = LOADING. At=20 that point you've got about all the stuff you will want to carry for and = extended period taking in consideration you're going to add a knife, = shooting=20 bag, powderhorn, rifle, axe, etc. Hope this helps.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Pendleton </FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: = 5px"> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>-----Original = Message-----</B><BR><B>From:=20 </B>Duncan Macready <<A=20 = href=3D"mailto:Duncanm@ihug.co.nz">Duncanm@ihug.co.nz</A>><BR><B>To: = </B><A=20 = href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com= </A>=20 <<A=20 = href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com= </A>><BR><B>Date:=20 </B>Thursday, November 04, 1999 12:28 AM<BR><B>Subject: </B>Re: = MtMan-List:=20 packs vs. haversacks<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>Allen = wrote:<BR>>. =20 Do you prefer a haversack or a backpack for being<BR>>out on = foot? =20 Why, and details about what you use = (size/weight/materials<BR>>used in=20 construction, etc).<BR><BR>On this tack , are the basket backpacks = sold by=20 Track of the Wolf, <BR>authentic in style if not=20 construction?<BR><BR><BR>YMOS<BR>Cutfinger<BR>Friendships = made,Problems=20 shared<BR>Campfires across the wilderness.<BR>Auckland, New=20 Zealand<BR><BR>----------------------<BR>hist_text list info: <A=20 = href=3D"http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html">http://www.xm= ission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> - ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BF2692.7DC052A0-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 08:21:48 -0600 From: Jim Lindberg <jal@sgi.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Sitting inside Sitting in my office in Chippewa Falls, Wisconsin, along the south bank of the Chippewa River, watching a 6 point buck chasing a doe, they run into some pines and out come 3 yearlings. Man I wish I was outside! Pray for tracking snow, Jim - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 07:08:35 -0700 From: Mike Moore <amm1616@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: packs vs. haversacks Allen, when it comes to carrying my equipment, I always seem to be changing what I use. If going on a short walk into a camp or a rendezvous, a cloth pannier set up (one piece) is used with smaller bags in it. My bedroll is always separate. I agree with most, a horse makes the carrying easy- but then you need to take care of the horse. When in a hiking mode, two haversacks are used. One for the food/ cooking items, one for changes of clothes (sox/ maybe extra shirt/ stocking hat and misc. needs).I find that the haversacks are close to what is called the "possible bags" and they do expand if needed. Allen Hall wrote: > Hello the list, > > Well, I think we've worked over the blankets pretty good. > > Here's a new one for you. Do you prefer a haversack or a backpack for being > out on foot? Why, and details about what you use (size/weight/materials > used in construction, etc). > > I'm sure everyone will be interested. > > Thanks in advance, > > Allen Hall out in Fort Hall country > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 10:15:34 EST From: TetonTod@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: packs vs. haversacks my vote goes for the backpack or rucksack. It distributes the load more evenly over both shoulders than a haversack over only one shoulder, it doesn't swing around in the way when stooping over, and I can tie things like bedrools and extra clothing to it more easily. I like to tie mine to a tree when in camp to make it easier to get into and to keep it off the ground. There's my 2 cents. Todd Glover - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 08:41:28 -0700 From: Baird.Rick@orbital-lsg.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Sitting inside Glad you have such a great view! Wish I had one. Best be grateful for what we do have eh? - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 10:49:52 EST From: TetonTod@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: packs vs. haversacks Allen, I forgot to mention that my pack is 14" wide x 17" tall x 4" deep. This is my second one, first was even bigger. Made it with a heavy hemp canvas as I felt it was more authentic than cotton canvas. Bottom of the pack is completely reinforced with a piece of leather extending an inch up the front and back. Strap attachments are reinforced on the top with a piece of leather on the inside of the pack. After construction I waterproofed it with a mixture of boiled linseed oil and powdered paint in a burnt sienna color. The bag is slightly stiff, but completely impervious to rain and snow. I made sure the linseed oil was neutralized before using by boiling it with some limestone added, then testing it with ph testing strips. Todd Glover - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 08:48:07 PST From: "Kevin Pitman" <kpmtnman@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Sitting inside Thanks for the mental picture. Needed that sitting in my classroom grading 6-week world history exams. Have some Douglas Spotted Eagle playing on the tape player and that helps too. Kevin >From: Jim Lindberg <jal@sgi.com> >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: MtMan-List: Sitting inside >Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 08:21:48 -0600 > >Sitting in my office in Chippewa Falls, Wisconsin, along the south bank >of the Chippewa River, watching a 6 point buck chasing a doe, they run >into some pines and out come 3 yearlings. Man I wish I was outside! > >Pray for tracking snow, > >Jim > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 10:42:28 +0000 From: R Lahti <lahtirog@gte.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: packs vs. haversacks Allen Hall wrote: > > Hello the list, > > Well, I think we've worked over the blankets pretty good. Allen, If you think the blankets have been beaten to death, you should be monitoring the MLML list and see what can be done with a simple request for a good recipe for chile. As to "tote'n that bale", I have run the gamut from pack basket to bedroll. In-between I've used simple ruck sacks and back boards with a pack attached. They all seem to have their good points and short comings. Some things I've learned the hardway and others I've learned from listening to others (and I'm still listening) but for my money......... The bottom line for me is simply that I do not have regular access to a horse or pack animal. So whether the NW Co. boys or HBC lackeys or Rocky Mt. Company hired hands or even the few free trappers, had horses to carry their gear or not, I don't! So given my physical infirmities (Old Age plus dissipation and abuse) and my need to hump my camp on my back, I am for working on a lighter and lighter load. The bigger my carrying container is, the more junk I can carry and the closer to the road I camp. That's not what this is supposed to be about so I eliminated the pack basket early on as being clumsy and capable of carrying too much stuff. One of my camp mates, Crawdad, carries one and we let him cause he always brings in a big roast marinated in some secret sauce stored in a pot in his pack basket. He is a good sharer too. Now that Lee fella is a strong young man and can get away with carrying half the contents of his garage. <G> I can't (He'll break down eventually <G>). Next I tried the back board with attached pack bag. That works fairly well and I still use it if the load is needing to be on the heavy side (because of the need for another blanket or whatever). It is made of cedar uprights and oak cross bucks all rawhided together with wide leather shoulder straps. It has canvas bands across at the top and bottom to keep the wood parts off my back. It is fairly comfortable to carry. I also have a rucksack/knapsack with attached shoulder straps made very similar to what Teton Todd describes. It's made of heavy linen canvas, waterproofed with bee's wax and about 14" wide by 16" tall give or take. It is not gusseted so it is a simple envelope with a button down flap and strengthened like Teton's with leather across the bottom and top back. At the moment it resides on the pack frame. It can be removed and used as a ruck sack and has been but I found that carrying things like a rolled up blanket, coat and what have you made the load somewhat clumsy and it works better with a heavy load if it is mounted on the pack frame. By itself it makes a great day pack and with warm weather camps and just the one blanket it works fine. Any heavier load and it goes back on the pack frame. I agree with that aspect of Hardtacks offering. Pack frames are the most comfortable for fairly heavy loads. Much more so than the pack basket. I also have a haversack with one cross body strap that I am trying to go through and lighten up as to it's normal contents. It is close to the same size as the ruck sack but wider than tall and otherwise made the same of the same materials. It seems to work good by itself as a day pack and this fall I used it with a separate bed roll slung to the same shoulder with some success going into our fall hunting camp (hopefully the site of the AMM 2000 Western). I didn't find that arraignment as troublesome as I have heard it to be. Using the bed roll and single cross body strap to carry my food sack, pots, extra mocs, wool tam and little else, rolling it long and tight and belting the shoulder strap to each end made it ride across my back without the expected tendency to slide around in front. I wore the haversack on the same shoulder but let it hang on the side rather than in back. I carried a canteen on that same side and my shooting pouch and horn on the other side. My belt contained my camp hatchet, knife, waterproof fire kit, and camera. I walked with Tulle in hand. It wasn't an unworkable load. I don't carry a pistol because I find them to be too heavy for the utility they offer. Incidentally I load myself in the reverse order of stuff I can get along without and still survive. So first I put on the belt with it's stuff, then the pouch and horn and I like a standard sized neck knife under everything and tucked in my shirt front. Then I put on the haversack, the canteen and finally the bedroll or back pack or rucksack. If I need to shed stuff in a hurry, I can flip off down to the bare minimum fairly quick. I am presently carrying some parched corn/jerky and some small items like an extra fire kit and meds in my haversack. There are still some things in my whole outfit that need a second and third look at to see if I really need them. But though I have been doing this for quit a few years I am coming to the realization that my enjoyment of this activity is not measured by how many "toys" I can get into camp but how easily "I" can make it into camp. That means leaving lots of "toys" at home and just carrying the necessities. Things change when I get to use the bateau, sled or am unbelievably lucky enough to find a horse wandering around that will let me catch and pack it. So for what it's worth, that's the way I do it. I know that historically our idols had horses to pack their stuff. And I am aware that there is a derth of references to "packs" of any kind. Most of us aren't mounted. There is no sense, as far as I can see, in pretending that I am a Mt. Man looking for my horse and carrying all the stuff that a regularly mounted person would carry "in case I find my horse". I'm afoot and likely to remain so. Perhaps I'm not a full fledged Rocky Mt. Trapper because of that. But I do like playing this game and I do like camping with my friends and if that means adapting the ways of another group of frontiersmen (read long hunter) then that is what I will have to do. The ranks of the Rocky Mt. Fur Trapper were filled with former eastern frontiersmen and such folks were in the Rockies perhaps even before Lewis and Clark. Sorry for the editorial. I remain... YMOS Capt. Lahti' - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 14:12:26 -0500 From: "Mill, Kirk" <millk@aydin.com> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: packs vs. haversacks Next I tried the back board with attached pack bag. That works fairly well and I still use it if the load is needing to be on the heavy side (because of the need for another blanket or whatever). It is made of cedar uprights and oak cross bucks all rawhided together with wide leather shoulder straps. It has canvas bands across at the top and bottom to keep the wood parts off my back. It is fairly comfortable to carry. I have a similar pack/frame combo. The pack is made from hair-on buckskin with rawhide sides to help it hold it's shape. The frame is made from cedar. While this works okay , how do you carry your shootin' bag and horn? The frame tends to shove the bag and horn around in front of you. I have sort of settled on hanging the bag off the back of the pack and putting the horn inside but this is kinda impractical if you intend to do any shooting while you are carrying the pack. Any suggestions? Kirk - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 14:35:21 EST From: ThisOldFox@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: packs vs. haversacks I use a simple flour sack, often found at antique shows for a dollar or two. They are well woven and tough. Sacks were a common way of carrying personal belongings. They will hold considerable gear and are expandable. I turn them into a rucksack by dropping a Bess ball in each lower corner, and tying them off with cordage. I have two hair-on rawhide straps that the cordage goes through. These serve as shoulder straps. The cordage passes through a hole at each end. Fill the sack with your possibles, grab the top of the sack and give it a twist, and tie it off with the ends of the cordage. You can get two blankets, cooking gear, food, extra clothes, etc into the sack, and a lot more if you want. When you unload it, the sack serves as a ground cloth that will extend from the butt to the shoulders. It's a pretty utilitarian way of doing things. It ain't waterproof, but it doesn't have to be. Everything inside that needs to stay dry is inside its own bag or container. Dave Kanger - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 11:45:03 +0000 From: R Lahti <lahtirog@gte.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: packs vs. haversacks Mill, Kirk wrote: While this works okay , how do you carry your shooting' bag > and horn? The frame tends to shove the bag and horn around in front of you. Kirk, Not sure there is an easy answer. Any of these arraignments have their short side. My pack frame is not all that wide, perhaps in the neighborhood of 14" so it doesn't come around to the side all that far (considering how wide I am getting <G>). The shooting bag and horn straps go over my left shoulder ( I carry them on the right) and the bag has a woven linen strap and the horn has a leather thong. I try to make straps from material that won't slide all that well on whatever they will be worn over. Without the pack or anything else on my shoulders they tend to swing around in front if I bend forward. With something on my shoulders over the straps, they tend to stay better. I wear the shooting bag and horn as high as I can and still get in and out of it. As for shooting while wearing all this gear, that doesn't happen all that often. I use a loading block around my neck and that gives me five patched shots before I need to get into the bag. I guess if I needed to hunker down to shoot I would start peeling off stuff and letting it lay. That is one thing about the pack frame and it's two shoulder straps, it's harder to shed in a hurry than the bed roll and haversack arrangement. But neither method of carrying camp causes the shooting bag to ride to the front unduly. > I have sort of settled on hanging the bag off the back of the pack and > putting the horn inside but this is kinda impractical if you intend to do > any shooting while you are carrying the pack. I too have packed my shooting bag away in my bed roll or knapsack at times because it was easier to deal with. All you really need is powder patch and ball. That can be taken care of with a loading block of patched balls and a measure hung from your horn. Use 3f and prime with it too. Your possibles bag is full of stuff you might "possibly need", so it doesn't mean that you have to get into it for every shot. That's all I can think of at the moment. Hope that gets you to thinking. I remain.... YMOS Capt. Lahti' - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 15:19:14 -0500 From: Linda Holley <tipis@mediaone.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Sitting inside Oh! darn, not another World History teacher?????? So am I. And I want to go camping so bad. Can't see deer on the second floor of my building in the middle of the city. But the few words he spoke give me the greatest thoughts of setting up my tipi next weekend in the back yard and just day dreaming. Linda Holley Kevin Pitman wrote: > Thanks for the mental picture. Needed that sitting in my classroom grading > 6-week world history exams. Have some Douglas Spotted Eagle playing on the > tape player and that helps too. > > Kevin > > >From: Jim Lindberg <jal@sgi.com> > >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > >Subject: MtMan-List: Sitting inside > >Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 08:21:48 -0600 > > > >Sitting in my office in Chippewa Falls, Wisconsin, along the south bank > >of the Chippewa River, watching a 6 point buck chasing a doe, they run > >into some pines and out come 3 yearlings. Man I wish I was outside! > > > >Pray for tracking snow, > > > >Jim > > > >---------------------- > >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #404 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.