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From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #402 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Monday, November 1 1999 Volume 01 : Number 402 In this issue: -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Blankets -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Blankets -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Blankets & Movie Jeremiah Johnson -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Blankets -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Blankets & Movie Jeremiah Johnson -áááááá MtMan-List: John (aka Jeremiah) Johnston's Reburial Ceremony -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Blankets -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Blankets -áááááá MtMan-List: Johnson/Johnston & cold -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Blankets & Movie Jeremiah Johnson -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Blankets -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Blankets and Hot Rocks -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Blankets -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Blankets -áááááá MtMan-List: Buffalo Bird Woman's Garden -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Coal Beds & Jon Kramer -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Blankets -áááááá RE: MtMan-List: coal bed ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 20:38:21 -0800 From: "John C. Funk, Jr." <J2Hearts@norcalis.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Blankets Would that surprise you???? Have you ever really been cold!!!!! I'm talk'n "survival" not ......"recreating". JF - ----- Original Message ----- From: John Stephens <johns@primarycolor.com> To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Sent: Sunday, October 31, 1999 2:39 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Blankets > Speaking of historically accurate ... When you read about the > mountaineers in freezing times, you find out that they didn't just sleep > 2-3 folks to a shelter and fire, but "buddied up" under the covers, so > to speak. You guys are sticklers for accuracy, right, so we can assume > that ... > > Maybe you could tell us more about that? > > B'st'rd > > Dennis Miles wrote: > > > > I stay as comfortable as can be expected in the conditions. Also, when in extreme cold or wet weather, we just buddy up 2-3 folks to a shelter & fire. > > D > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 20:39:26 -0800 From: "John C. Funk, Jr." <J2Hearts@norcalis.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Blankets Right on, Dennis!!!!! JF - ----- Original Message ----- From: Dennis Miles <deforge1@wesnet.com> To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Sent: Sunday, October 31, 1999 3:28 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Blankets > Tell ya what, I ain't ashamed of it, my late runnin partner and I have shared a bedroll in VERY cold times, back to back, (unlike Buck and his friends) a > body throws allot of heat and when it is below or near 0, no sense in wastin' it. > Lanney can pitch in with a body heat story too, I believe.. > D > > John Stephens wrote:, but "buddied up" under the covers, so > > > to speak. You guys are sticklers for accuracy, right, so we can assume > > that ... > > > > Maybe you could tell us more about that? > > > > B'st'rd > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 20:56:55 +0000 From: R Lahti <lahtirog@gte.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Blankets & Movie Jeremiah Johnson JON MARINETTI wrote: > > How period authentic was Bear Claw (IIRC real name was Chris Lapp) > advising Johnson to sleep on a bed of simmering coals loosely covered > with dirt, as shown in that movie? How can coals simmer without oxygen? Jon, Can't say how authentic the practice really was but if done right it will work. The coals don't simmer though. As to coals going without oxygen, I assure you that under the right circumstances, coals will stay live for a considerable time buried under ashes. The leading cause of garage fires in winter comes from the silly practice of taking the hot ashes out of a wood stove in a paper bag and putting them in the garage until it's time to take them out to the trash or what ever. The coals will stay viable for quit some time. As to making your bed over simmering coals as advised in the movie, the trick is letting the coals from a long deep fire dry and warm the ground. You have to dig a fairly deep hole as long as you want and build a fire in it. Long before bed, you cover the fire up with dirt and let the coals underneath warm the ground above. You have to wait long enough before getting on it so that all steam has risen out of the ground. If you don't have enough soil on top of the coals, you can set your blankets/bedding on fire. We have never done that in any camp I have been in because it never seemed cold enough to warrant the effort. To make it through a cold night in camp it is my practice to wear everything I wear during the day to bed. Of course if I have worked up a sweat the clothing needs to be dry first. But the point is that if what I am wearing will keep me warm standing around and doing simple camp chores then all I need is a good blanket or two to make it through the night without too much problem. My normal bed roll consists of a Whitney Blanket (4 point) with the foot folded under and pinned and a muslin oil cloth of the same size. The oil cloth will capture some moisture from my breathing and body expiration but the blanket never gets wet. If weight is not a factor, I will carry a sheep skin pelt that is cut narrow and as long as it comes as a pad to sleep on. But as has been pointed out, if your feet are warm and you keep your head covered with a wool cap of some kind, you will probably sleep warm. Cold weather mocs should be loose fitting and capable of holding several layers of wool inside without cramping your feet. On a recent snowshoe winter camp with Col. Dorsett and his Rotwiller "Bear" up in the Cascades in Jan. we slept in our own blankets but back to back with much advantage. Bear slept on top between our legs and kept warm too. At present Bear is a 12 year old and this past couple days the Col. reported that Bear was suffering some stomach pain and just ran off. The Col. has been looking for him in the salal and along the road and under junk piles but no Bear. We fear the worst for our faithful camping companion. 12 years old is very old for a Rotwiller. > Also, what are blanket points (thickness of 1 point = .013 inches like > in the printing trade?). The point system denotes size rather than thickness. In the fur trade era blankets were valued against beaver. Presumably one point per beaver pelt, i.e. a 4 point would be worth 4 pelts. Not a hard and fast rule but that was the general idea. Have read with great interest all the previous > knowledgeable postings from The AMM Camp's experience that comes only > from surviving the snows of many winters. (for the new person): It's not hard. Leave the sleeping bags and cots at home and learn to do it right. Listen to what is being offered by all and a comfortable winter camp is not hard to do. I remain... YMOS Capt. Lahti' - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 21:05:01 -0800 From: "John C. Funk, Jr." <J2Hearts@norcalis.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Blankets Maybe so......is that so unusual? You may be correct on the "double" blankets though I tend to doubt it. I spect what was "issued" were single "torn" blankets unless one purchased two. J.F. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Moore <amm1616@earthlink.net> To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, October 30, 1999 9:12 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Blankets > John, > While you are correct in saying that 31/2 and 4 four point blankets were > the most common traded and sold in the west, There are some factors which you > need to consider: 1) blankets as small as 1 point were brought out in 1836 and > 2) these blankets (as were all blankets listed in the invoices) were sold in > pairs. Example: 42 pair of 21/2 (point) white was brought out in that same year > for the Rocky Mountain Outfit. My personal impression is that most of these > blankets were what we consider the size of two blankets. Wes Housler sells the > "double" blankets and this is probably what was sold. The 3 and 31/2 point you > use, may only be one half of a old style blanket- or about the same size as > Pat's 6 point. > Sometimes even when we try to do what is "right" we get led astray by using > only what is availible (or most common) today. There is alot of good discussion > going on what each one uses to keep warm. And we all have our preferences- but > the fact is that alot of the people we read about in the journals and > narratives we cold, wet and uncomfortable when on the trail. So, I guess all > the gentlemen who do get cold are just being authenic??? > > John C. Funk, Jr. wrote: > > > Pat, > > Your response begs the question.....how "authentic" is a "6 point Whitney", > > much less a J.C. Wilde, or is that not a legitimate concern? > > > > John Funk > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: <Mtnman1449@aol.com> > > To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> > > Sent: Saturday, October 30, 1999 2:24 PM > > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Blankets > > > > > My bedroll has a 6pt witney and a CJ Wilde hand woven blanket about the > > same > > > size. I'm 6 feet tall and those blankets are about 20" longer than I am. > > I > > > fold one of them from the bottom over the top of my bedroll and the other > > > back under the bottom of my bedroll, both comin up to about my knees. > > This > > > forms a nice envelope for my feet and in the cold weather here in the > > Rockies > > > at 10,000 feet, they sure keep my feet warm. If my feet are happy, I'm > > > happy. That's the reason I changed to 6pt. In the not so cold weather, > > if > > > you drop to one blanket, you can still make the "envelope" for your feet. > > > I've slept under a pine tree, 15 below zero with a buffalo robe and a 6pt > > > witney and had to open up for air during the night!! I'm convinced those > > > extra layers around the feet make all the difference. > > > Pat surrena #1449 > > > Jim Baker party, Colorado > > > > > > ---------------------- > > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 20:56:55 +0000 From: R Lahti <lahtirog@gte.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Blankets & Movie Jeremiah Johnson JON MARINETTI wrote: > > How period authentic was Bear Claw (IIRC real name was Chris Lapp) > advising Johnson to sleep on a bed of simmering coals loosely covered > with dirt, as shown in that movie? How can coals simmer without oxygen? Jon, Can't say how authentic the practice really was but if done right it will work. The coals don't simmer though. As to coals going without oxygen, I assure you that under the right circumstances, coals will stay live for a considerable time buried under ashes. The leading cause of garage fires in winter comes from the silly practice of taking the hot ashes out of a wood stove in a paper bag and putting them in the garage until it's time to take them out to the trash or what ever. The coals will stay viable for quit some time. As to making your bed over simmering coals as advised in the movie, the trick is letting the coals from a long deep fire dry and warm the ground. You have to dig a fairly deep hole as long as you want and build a fire in it. Long before bed, you cover the fire up with dirt and let the coals underneath warm the ground above. You have to wait long enough before getting on it so that all steam has risen out of the ground. If you don't have enough soil on top of the coals, you can set your blankets/bedding on fire. We have never done that in any camp I have been in because it never seemed cold enough to warrant the effort. To make it through a cold night in camp it is my practice to wear everything I wear during the day to bed. Of course if I have worked up a sweat the clothing needs to be dry first. But the point is that if what I am wearing will keep me warm standing around and doing simple camp chores then all I need is a good blanket or two to make it through the night without too much problem. My normal bed roll consists of a Whitney Blanket (4 point) with the foot folded under and pinned and a muslin oil cloth of the same size. The oil cloth will capture some moisture from my breathing and body expiration but the blanket never gets wet. If weight is not a factor, I will carry a sheep skin pelt that is cut narrow and as long as it comes as a pad to sleep on. But as has been pointed out, if your feet are warm and you keep your head covered with a wool cap of some kind, you will probably sleep warm. Cold weather mocs should be loose fitting and capable of holding several layers of wool inside without cramping your feet. On a recent snowshoe winter camp with Col. Dorsett and his Rotwiller "Bear" up in the Cascades in Jan. we slept in our own blankets but back to back with much advantage. Bear slept on top between our legs and kept warm too. At present Bear is a 12 year old and this past couple days the Col. reported that Bear was suffering some stomach pain and just ran off. The Col. has been looking for him in the salal and along the road and under junk piles but no Bear. We fear the worst for our faithful camping companion. 12 years old is very old for a Rotwiller. > Also, what are blanket points (thickness of 1 point = .013 inches like > in the printing trade?). The point system denotes size rather than thickness. In the fur trade era blankets were valued against beaver. Presumably one point per beaver pelt, i.e. a 4 point would be worth 4 pelts. Not a hard and fast rule but that was the general idea. Have read with great interest all the previous > knowledgeable postings from The AMM Camp's experience that comes only > from surviving the snows of many winters. (for the new person): It's not hard. Leave the sleeping bags and cots at home and learn to do it right. Listen to what is being offered by all and a comfortable winter camp is not hard to do. I remain... YMOS Capt. Lahti' - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 01:03:37 -0500 (EST) From: JONDMARINETTI@webtv.net (JON MARINETTI) Subject: MtMan-List: John (aka Jeremiah) Johnston's Reburial Ceremony Saturday, June 8th, 1974. - ----------------------------------- Jon Marinetti Michigan Territory Land of the Ojibway, Odawa, Potawattomi - ----------------------------------- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 05:28:39 -0600 From: John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Blankets I have tagged onto Dave Kanger's post because it has a lot of good= information many should read again, he is exactly right about it seeming colder when the temperature is on the cusp of freezing, and that mountain air is warmer, I never felt the chill in my bones in the mountains, like in the East even= when I'm warm. Buck has posted a lot of good information. Several other posts speak from being cold and learning how to stay warm. Pay attention, throw your down and synthetic sleeping bags away, they can kill you. =20 In the mid 70's I bought two Barron (I heard they're out of business now) 4pt & one 3 point and two Hudson Bay 4 pt. The Barrons are thin, threadbare, worn through and exist only as a few scraps for wrapping small bundles. I have recently replaced them with Whitney's and a C.J. Wilde attached itself to me about 15 years back. The Bays are still in my bedroll, they've never really been washed, wet many times. Whitney's are fluffier than Bay's a difference in the finish of the nap, I don't remember the Bays ever pilling as much as the Whitney's. A C.J. Wilde is a different "harder" surface and really looks= more like the finish I've seen on old blankets. Having two pretty worn Bays I'm pretty certain the old ones didn't just wear into all of the look they exhibit. =20 Double blankets were woven on factory blanket width looms. The cordage on= the loom allowed two full lengths to be woven without having to restring the= loom (a time consuming process I forget the official name for) one setup time was split between two blankets for cost reduction. The blankets were shipped= end to end. Some were, some weren't; torn in half when traded or issued. =20 By contrast many more looms were 40" + or - so the double length woven is= torn in half and stitched together on a center seam to provide the necessary width.=20 Coverlets and many other goods were made similarly. Body chemistry has a lot to do with how warm one sleeps, it can change. I have never been able to take as much cold since I had tick fever 25 years ago. When you live outdoors all the time you will acclimate and sleep warmer than when you venture out occasionally. If you are cold put something more under you rather than over, the cold from the ground is what chills. The most comfortable you'll ever sleep in the mountains is when you're riding and packing a couple of extra animals. All the saddle blankets go on the bottom and it do make a fine bed. =20 Sitting with your back against a tree works because less of you is in= contact with the ground, if you sit on a folded blanket or any form of insulation. like a log, it helps more. A tiny fire or candle between your feet and under the blanket with you can add a lot of warmth. be careful. Don't sit with your back against a rock or the earth. Breathing air warmed over the flame of a= candle held under a blanket tented over you -- can warm you more quickly when= you're chilled, a tiny smoke free fire at your feet is almost as good. =20 If you are shivering hypothermia is soon to follow and this can help right now. Get a candle or small fire lit while you can. Don't do anything else first. If you are alone and hypothermia sets in you ain't got long to live, depends on who you're with otherwise. Anyone who'd refuse to bundle a= brother suffering hypothermia, I don't want to share a camp or the mountains with. = =20 I like to fold the blankets inside a tight woven untreated tarp to help= break the wind. Don't wrap up in a waterproofed tarp or you'll sleep wet and= cold.=20 I've seen the more organized sew their blankets and tarps into various forms of an envelope, mount buttons & hand stitch button holes and or sew on buckskin ties. I kick my feet up and let the excess tuck under. Just get it all tucked around me good. =20 I can't over emphasize how important it is to have more under you than over you if you really want to sleep warm. Keep your blankets a little loose around you like the moccasin suggestion elsewhere in this thread for your feet. A 4 point today isn't quite as big as a 3 1/2 point relative to our average size so the experience is about the same now as then. To ask someone 7'= tall and/or approaching 400lbs, to consider anything but an 8 point is= ridiculous unless he just likes to make do with less coverage than we and suffer. My blankets fit me better 40 pounds ago. It would take a very brave, mean spirited, real fast, little scrawny guy to want someone that size to suffer.= =20 Anyone over 5'10" back then would have been thought a giant, there's a= couple of the brothers of mythical proportions now, they really need the biggest blanket they can get. If 12 pointers were made they deserve them. Pick the blanket size you are willing to carry that fits your need. For the question about the authenticity of a C.J. Wilde blanket. I don't= know how you can get much more authentic. Correct material, patterns and dyes, wood loom woven by hand in halves and joined with a center seam. Gee, they're= just like the old ones. I like Buck's idea of fulling them and think I'll try it on mine. Todays 6 point size is a simple double of a common loom width of the period and a 6 point Whitney or Bay is no better or bigger than a common= loom woven blanket of the period. =20 The old timers didn't find it necessary to cut the label off and I don't either. It's something they didn't do. It isn't relevant they didn't have= a label to cut off. There's nothing old to be learned in the exercise. They look good and work exactly the same either way. Unless you arrange the cold label to lay against your cheek. You must adapt to your environment. If you are in deep snow dig in and use the snow for insulation and shelter. If you are in the desert I assure you that you can freeze on a winter night after a hot sunny day if you don't do things right. =20 When you are traveling light with no snow pack with one or no blanket is= when the "fire pit bed" is best used. A small space between two or more large= rock faces is ideal. Back up against one dig your pit and build your fire, a= rock can work as a shovel. Build a deep bed of coal and ash then move the fire= to the other rock face and cover over your bed with plenty of dirt -- evenly.= =20 Keep the new fire burning and sleep warm through the night. Be conservative of your energy that wasted on unnecessary exertions that offer limited benefit= or unnecessary luxury can work against you, in extreme conditions it can kill you. If you have brush build an arbor, work with trees and downed timber, enclose yourself as best you can. Make do with what you've got and don't worry about what you don't have. =20 If you wrap in a canvas you can tie up the leading edge to reflect a long narrow fire you can reach out and feed all night. If you have feathery boughs to cut you can use them over and under you, because there are so many of us-and-them in this world: this is something I think we should reserve to true survival situations on public lands, and mostly make= do without the luxury. On occasion when we get on some private land that can stand a little thinning, then you can experiment with a luxurious bough bed.= =20 There are tricks to them. They're worth sleeping on many more than one night.=20 Fluff and refresh them daily. The thing that really got me seriously interested in the old ways was when= the finest modern mountaineering equipment failed me and nearly cost me my life= - twice. Wool blankets and canvas tarp have never put me at risk, over 25= years later. Every robe I ever had rotted away, damned heavy, mighty cozy. I was always worried about my robe (when I had one) I've never been concerned= about my wool blankets, wet or dry. Wet ain't as comfortable but, wool can keep= you alive if you keep your wits about you. I have been wet, cold and uncomfortable in wool, it's kept me alive and most often comfortable. A simple thing like throwing an oil treated canvas over the top to shed some heavy dew or rain can cause you to sleep cold. If you roll up in a tarp use untreated. Save the oilcloth for wrapping goods or a shelter. If you tie your bundles so they don't pool water and rig your shelter the same, untreated won't leak through on you. It's also lighter to pack and carry. If you sleep cold you should never lay down without a wool or fur cap on= your head. Blanket mocs are nice on the feet over wool socks. If a capote is= part of your bedroll use the hood. If you aren't warm in your clothes without cuddling a fire, you aren't likely to sleep warm with a blanket. As to sharing a bedroll, I have done most of my wandering alone so I've kept= a 100 lb dog handy through the years. Some nights two more would have been fine. If you heat stones to place in the foot of your bedroll. Choose them carefully. Some rocks hold heat better than others. Soap stone seems best, maybe that's why all the old ones (those 2" thick square and rectangular smooth flat stones with wire bail handles) were made of soapstone and called soapstones. They also make a great griddle over the fire. Whatever stone= you use wrap it well in multiple layers of heavy cloth before you place it in= your bed the heat will last longer, steam problems are reduced. Thick terry= cloth the size of a large bath towel works pretty good on soapstones. A hunk of blanket would work as well. =20 Note: the wrong stones can explode like a real bomb and hurt you if you put them in a fire. They can even set your bedroll or surrounding area on fire with widely scattered embers. Burning "kapok" (a 1957ish wonder material) cannot be fully extinguished with less than complete immersion in a river. = =20 There is a lot more information on blankets in the List Archives, those new= to the list should read through the archives fully, I did before I posted my first word. I'll pose a question the answer to which is in the archives to begin the search. =20 How long is a nail? It is one specific unit of measure related to this subject in a general sort of way. Those who already know or remember keep quiet someone may have some fun and find out something they didn't even know they didn't know, while reading the archive. <http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html>http://www.xmission.com /~drudy/mtman/maillist.html John... At 09:58 PM 10/30/99 -0400, you wrote: >>>Several others knowing it was going to go to a possible -10/15 degrees=20 >brought >>that much or more, I think three of us slept good, a couple where= =20 >cold and one >>sat up and kept a fire going most of the night.=20 >>> Pat with the buff robe faired the best with less heat loss due to the hide=20 >and hair >>of the robe. You could see the steam coming up off that lump in= =20 >the snow. > >Have slept out in -25 degree weather.=A0 There are a couple of other good= =20 >reasons why some get cold and others don't.=A0 Most are the person's own= fault. > >1. You need to go to bed warm, dry, and have enough calories in your system= =20 >to get you through the night.=A0 Eat a late supper with plenty of fat in= it.=A0=20 >Go for a walk to get your blood circulating, then change your dry clothes and=20 >turn in. > >2.=A0 You need to stay away from the fire.=A0 Most guys that are fire-sitte= rs are=20 >always cold.=A0 You sweat more than you know when it is cold, but you don't= =20 >notice it.=A0 Sitting by the fire will get you all sweated up.=A0 You turn = in and=20 >your clothing cools off and you get cold. > >3.=A0 You need bedding that will pass moisture.=A0 If you sleep with your= head=20 >under the covers, your breath will get everything damp.=A0 When it cools= off,=20 >you will get cold.=A0 Best thing is to crawl into your blankets and then= put a=20 >small blanket over your head and face.=A0 That keeps your breath out of= your=20 >main bedding. > >I find that I get colder when it is 30 to 35 degrees than when it is below= =20 >zero. >Slept in a snow cave once.=A0 I had to throw off the blankets because I was= =20 >sweating, yet the side of my face that was against the floor froze.=A0 My teeth=20 >were numb for 2 days on that side. > >I guess others get acclimated to cold weather better.=A0 I always liked= cold=20 >better than hot.=A0 When I was a kid, we had a screened in porch with a day bed=20 >on it.=A0 I slept outside on it from spring until the end of November, so I= =20 >guess I grew up used to the cold.=A0 For some reason, I always found= western=20 >mountain air to be warmer than eastern air....at the same temperature.=A0 Maybe=20 >cause mountain air has less humidity in it. > >Dave Kanger > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: <http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html>http://www.xmission.com/ ~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >=20 John T. Kramer, maker of:=A0 Kramer's Best Antique Improver >>>It makes wood wonderful<<< =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 >>>As good as old!<<< <http://www.kramerize.com/> mail to: <kramer@kramerize.com>=20 - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 04:50:57 -0800 From: John Stephens <johns@primarycolor.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Blankets Gee, I thought that "spoonin'" was the more traditional mode of keeping warm. Wasn't it Louis Gerrard who wrote of using this method and then finding out that his partner had a problem with lice? And of course the usual method of cleaning up lice only worked during the warm season. B'st'rd ThisOldFox@aol.com wrote: > > > Quit callin' me "Mr."<G> And I am just shootin in the dark to see what > > happens.. I am curious like that.. Are you SURE it was back to back??? > > Dennis, > If there was only two of them and it was dark, we will never know......but if > there were three, then someone was a gettin' the shaft. Which one of them > guys always walks around with a big smile on his face? > > OldFox - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 07:02:16 -0600 From: "Frank Fusco" <frankf@centuryinter.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Johnson/Johnston & cold I want to thank everyone for their responses on the John Johnson/Johnston books. Guess I will just have to read all of them now. Also now I wonder if I ever really want to know the truth, the legend might just be more fascinating. About cold. There is cold and there is other types of cold. Where I live in the Arkansas Ozarks, there are winter and early spring days where the temp. is about 30 degrees and sometimes you just cannot wear enough clothes, modern or period, to keep warm. But I have been in other parts of the U.S., wearing less when the temp. was about 0 and stayed comfortable. Dampness can penetrate like spikes. And, I am yet to find period correct footwear that will keep feet warm and dry when walking through semi-frozen slush and mud. Would rather walk on solidly frozen ground or snow anytime. Frank "Bearclaw" Fusco, Mountain Home, Arkansas - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 09:03:56 -0600 From: Jim Lindberg <jal@sgi.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Blankets & Movie Jeremiah Johnson The hard part would be to dig the frozen ground. Jim - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 09:12:14 -0600 From: Glenn Darilek <llsi@texas.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Blankets I do remember a part of Garrard where he and another were sharing their robes for warmth. They got snowed on a lot, and Garrard made the mistake of raising his head. The snow flowed under his head. He couldn't convince his partner to get out of the bed to get the snow out, so he spent the rest of the night using a snow pillow. Glenn Darilek Iron Burner John Stephens wrote: > > Gee, I thought that "spoonin'" was the more traditional mode of keeping > warm. Wasn't it Louis Gerrard who wrote of using this method and then > finding out that his partner had a problem with lice? And of course the > usual method of cleaning up lice only worked during the warm season. > > B'st'rd > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 09:18:28 -0600 From: Jim Lindberg <jal@sgi.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Blankets and Hot Rocks tom roberts wrote: > > Yea, and I've got a nice, black-edged, round hole in one of my canvas bags, as well as a scorched spot on one of my blankets from said hot rock. It did stay warm all night, but it _could_ have gotten a whole lot warmer real quick! > > Tom "I knew it, not enough dirt." Bearclaw. B^) - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 06:21:57 -0800 From: John Stephens <johns@primarycolor.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Blankets Could be I have morphed Lewis and Clark and Osborn Russell into Garrard. That's the trouble with this damm work stuff: Don't have my books here. B'st'rd Glenn Darilek wrote: > > I do remember a part of Garrard where he and another were sharing their > robes for warmth. They got snowed on a lot, and Garrard made the > mistake of raising his head. The snow flowed under his head. He > couldn't convince his partner to get out of the bed to get the snow out, > so he spent the rest of the night using a snow pillow. > > Glenn Darilek > Iron Burner - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 09:43:15 -0600 From: Jim Lindberg <jal@sgi.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Blankets Another thing to add as to keeping warm in the cold, drink lots of water, try to avoid caffiene. (I know) B^) Caffiene and alcohol are diuretics, which means it makes you pee more and can lead to dehydration which can lead to headaches and being colder (not to mention having to get out of the warm bed to relieve yourself), I usually have a plastic "pee" bottle when I'm camping, not period I know. A quick check of your pee can tell how you're doing, if it gets darker yellow, start drinking more water, you want it about the color of Coors! B^) The body will give off about a quart of water at night. Other suggestions were great, dry clothes, take a walk before changing into bed clothes, wear a hat. Insulation below you is at least as important as whats over you. Enough of my Boy Scout training for now. Jim - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 09:46:22 -0600 From: Jim Lindberg <jal@sgi.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Buffalo Bird Woman's Garden I stopped at Fort Snelling this weekend and picked up "Buffalo Bird Wonma's Garden" as told to Gilbert L. Wilson. Cost $8.95 ISBN 0-87351-219-7. Sure looks like it'll be a good read. Jim - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 08:47:28 -0700 From: Baird.Rick@orbital-lsg.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Coal Beds & Jon Kramer Sheesh!!! Fine lot of information on the post by Jon Kramer. Sounds like only a couple of us have actually built and used a coal-bed. You fellers that ain't done it really ought to go out and try it at least once. It's interesting to say the least. My first one was more akin to a steam bath where I'd roast one side then turn over and roast the other and all the time steam rolling up around me. Next was much more successful because I built a giant huge fire and let it dry out all the dirt...best camp I ever had at right around zero, slept warm as could be. Like the J. Johnson movie, don't forget to put enough DRY dirt down. Anyhow, thanks Jon, for all the good info. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 09:49:19 -0600 From: Jim Lindberg <jal@sgi.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Blankets Also, if you have enough snow, dig a trench and set up your bed in there, any wind will blow over the top of you. Just make it wide enough that if you toss and turn you don't have snow drop down on your face, that wakes you up in a hurry! Jim - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 16:18:00 +0000 From: rick_williams@byu.edu Subject: RE: MtMan-List: coal bed Did a coal bed once. Was very warm. In fact had to keep getting up and putting more dirt over it. One real problem was the moisture. It was early spring so the snow melt was still in the ground. Felt like aturkish bath. I would use again for survival. (read no blankets etc.) but I think hot rocks do as well with blankets. Watch out for explodsions when heating though. Put it inside of something (canvas bag works) and protect your blankets. Rick - -----Original Message----- From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of JON MARINETTI Sent: Monday, November 01, 1999 12:21 AM To: hist_text@xmission.com Subject: MtMan-List: Blankets & Movie Jeremiah Johnson How period authentic was Bear Claw (IIRC real name was Chris Lapp) advising Johnson to sleep on a bed of simmering coals loosely covered with dirt, as shown in that movie? How can coals simmer without oxygen? Also, what are blanket points (thickness of 1 point = .013 inches like in the printing trade?). Have read with great interest all the previous knowledgeable postings from The AMM Camp's experience that comes only from surviving the snows of many winters. - ----------------------------------- Jon Marinetti Michigan Territory Land of the Ojibway, Odawa, Potawattomi - ----------------------------------- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #402 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.