I'll talk to Dave about that . hey i stared down a bear sat at Nat. 15-20
feet away . what a rush!
YMHS,
Terry Landis
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 23:49:39 -0700
From: Frank <Buckskinner@gbis.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canut Du Nord Web site
Yeah? Think about how the poor bear felt! (sorry, couldn't resist!)
Medicine Bear
terry l landis wrote:
> I'll talk to Dave about that . hey i stared down a bear sat at Nat. 15-20
> feet away . what a rush!
> YMHS,
> Terry Landis
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 12:30:37 -0700
From: Roger Lahti <lahtirog@gte.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canut Du Nord Web site
terry l landis wrote:
> I'll talk to Dave about that . hey i stared down a bear sat at Nat. 15-20
> feet away . what a rush!
Moose-Moose,
For crying out loud! Are we gona have to wait until it comes out in Field and
Stream before we hear the details?! I had a great time up there, kinda sorry
I missed the bear. Sure met a lot of nice folks and saw some beautiful
scenery anyway. So tell the story! I remain......
YMOS
Capt. Lahti'
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 20:44:22 -0600
From: "Lee Cardon" <lcardon@insurquote.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: MtMan-List - Joining the AMM
Dave,
Have you developed those pictures yet ??? could be an interesting picture if it
turns up showing you with your arm around a tree or something...
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 10:41:22 -0700
From: terry l landis <tllandis@juno.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: the bear at Nat.
Saturday morning we got up and packed out all the gear we wouldn't need
for the last day and took it out. a couple of miles away there was a set
of teepee rings so we went to investigate them . when we got back it was
hot . so i went down to the creek to wash pots and bring up some water to
boil. well i got done washing and i stuck my head in the creek for some
heat relief. the whole time i was down there i didn't feel right,but i
couldn't put my finger on why . so when i stood up and shook the water
offin my head i looked over to the other bank and looking at me over a
big log was this bear. all i could see at first was the top of it's nose
, eyes and ears. my first thought was "thats a bear!"then it was "shit
thats a small bear!" so i reached down -never taking my eyes off of that
bear- picked up my hat and put it on. i then turned around and got the
pots of water i had and stood up and looked at that bear. it was sniffing
around right where i first saw it .i walked half way to the hill and
turned around still there and no momma yet. i walked up to the bottom of
the hill and turned around, still there. this hill is about20-30 ft high
and i got up it in 10 steps and didn't spill a drop. my booshway is
sitting at the top in the shade and when i got to the top i hollered at
him "hey dave f%$&in Ephraim" and he said "huh?" and i said a little
louder " f%$&in Ephraim" he said " what?" and i said " a god damned bear"
and pointed to the spot . we let the rest of camp know so it could be
chased off because of the horses and all. and then Dave says yer name is
Ephraim now. you earned it so now you got it. and then he said "what did
you learn today?" i said never leave camp with out a loaded gun.
what a trip for this pilgrim to his first rocky mountain rendezvous.
that bear was down where dirty shirt was camped the day before . stood
about 4ft tall and was the most beautiful shade of copper/ blonde.
shining times i shall never forget. in those rocky mountains my sense of
brotherhood was born.
YMHS,
" Ephraim"
Terry Landis
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 15:13:44 EDT
From: KC764@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: the bear at Nat.
Ephraim:
Where exactly are these tipi rings? These are the kinds of things I like to
seek out and make a vacation of going to see them. We frequently search out
petroglyph sites, here in the west and I then bring my family to see them.
Tipi rings would be very interesting to us. You can trust us not to molest
them in any way and keep them a secret from people who may. If you don't
want the whole world to know, contact me off-list, if you don't mind.
Thanks,
Carp - kc764@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: 7 Jul 1999 13:35:41 -0700
From: <turtle@uswestmail.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: the bear at Nat.
"Ephraim",
Your lucky that this little guy's mamma didn't show or even some of it's friends, I have talked to the US Forestry folks that work the bears in several of the western National Parks, and that type of encounter I'm told can get real nasty - real fast.
Personally have never had that experience, but Mike Moore, Buck Conner and Ken "Quill" Smith of the Baker Party have; Ken ran into a mother and her baby just a few weeks ago from what I understand at a party camp in South Park, CO. At the Rocky Mountain College held in this area it's not uncommon for such sightings, as is the area of this years Nationals.
Thank you for sharing your story, one that I'm sure will be remembered and told many times in your travels.
Turtle.
________________________
> On Wed, 07 July 1999, terry l landis wrote:
> Saturday morning we got up and packed out all the gear we wouldn't need
> for the last day and took it out. a couple of miles away there was a set
> of teepee rings so we went to investigate them . when we got back it was
> hot . so i went down to the creek to wash pots and bring up some water to
> boil. well i got done washing and i stuck my head in the creek for some
> heat relief. the whole time i was down there i didn't feel right,but i
> couldn't put my finger on why . so when i stood up and shook the water
> offin my head i looked over to the other bank and looking at me over a
> big log was this bear. all i could see at first was the top of it's nose
> , eyes and ears. my first thought was "thats a bear!"then it was "shit
> thats a small bear!" so i reached down -never taking my eyes off of that
> bear- picked up my hat and put it on. i then turned around and got the
> pots of water i had and stood up and looked at that bear. it was sniffing
> around right where i first saw it .i walked half way to the hill and
> turned around still there and no momma yet. i walked up to the bottom of
> the hill and turned around, still there. this hill is about20-30 ft high
> and i got up it in 10 steps and didn't spill a drop. my booshway is
> sitting at the top in the shade and when i got to the top i hollered at
> him "hey dave f%$&in Ephraim" and he said "huh?" and i said a little
> louder " f%$&in Ephraim" he said " what?" and i said " a god damned bear"
> and pointed to the spot . we let the rest of camp know so it could be
> chased off because of the horses and all. and then Dave says yer name is
> Ephraim now. you earned it so now you got it. and then he said "what did
> you learn today?" i said never leave camp with out a loaded gun.
> what a trip for this pilgrim to his first rocky mountain rendezvous.
> that bear was down where dirty shirt was camped the day before . stood
> about 4ft tall and was the most beautiful shade of copper/ blonde.
> shining times i shall never forget. in those rocky mountains my sense of
> brotherhood was born.
> YMHS,
> " Ephraim"
> Terry Landis
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 13:46:47 -0700
From: "Munroe Crutchley" <munroe@rvi.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: Flint and steel
I've never made fire with flint a steel before but just a piece of flint
and a steel striker from TOTW. I haven't made any char yet, but have been
trying to learn to consistently make sparks. Problem is: sometimes I get a
shower of sparks and other times I strike and strike and don't get any. I
can't seem to tell what's making the difference; seems like I am doing it
the same each time. Does it only take a few strikes to dull or wear out the
edge of the flint? Am I looking for the sharpest edge on the flint I can
find or what.? Should the striker be hard like a file? Mild steel? In
between? I am striking the steel with the flint; I suppose this is the
correct way!
Munroe Crutchley
Grants Pass, OR
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 18:20:55 EDT
From: KC764@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flint and steel
Munroe:
You can make char cloth easily by putting some 100% cotton or flax material
in a tight can, like a steel film can, with a small hole in the top from,
say, an ice pick, or the tip of a knife. This material can not have fire
proof treatment, for obvious reasons. Put the can in a camp fire or a
propane bbq, not on your home stove, so your wife doesn't kill you and leave
it there until it stops smoking, about 45 minutes or an hour. This "burns"
the cloth in an oxygen free environment, thereby not completely consuming the
material and making it suseptable to catching a spark.
As far as your flint; yes you get the best results from a sharp edge. Use
your fire steel to knap the edge of the rock, by striking it and knocking a
sharp edge into the rock. By the way, other rocks, besides flint, will
create a spark, e.g., quartz, that I pick up out here in the west all the
time, sparks very well. Also, you will notice that some rocks have "hot
spots" and you will learn to know your rocks. These "hot spots" are where
you will want to continue to strike, for best results.
Your fire steel needs to be high carbon steel. Anybody who makes them,
commercially, will make them from high carbon steel, or they won't sell many,
because they won't work.
Make a "nest" from dried grass, dead bark from a cedar tree, or something
along those lines. Put your rock on top of a piece of your charcloth, strike
the rock and catch a spark on it. Then, place the glowing cloth in the
middle of your "nest", blow on it until it bursts into flame and place it in
you prepared kindling where you want your fire. OSHA warning; this will be
hot so don't hold onto it very long (so we don't get sued).
Hope this helps.
Carp
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 17:35:45 -0500
From: John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flint and steel
Monroe,
What you are trying to do is scrape off some of the steel with the stone. The
steel should be hardened. Some modern tool steels don't spark well.
If you sometimes get spark and sometimes don't it is probably more your
technique than fault of the stuff you're using.
It helps to have a sharp edge though if your technique is good you can get
spark from a pretty dull edge. The angle of attack is more important than how
hard you hit. Again, think of the stone scraping a layer off the steel.
Think
of the angles you use when sharpening a knife.
I usually hold the flint (more or less) stationary with a tiny piece of
char on
top and strike the steel against the stone edge.
I have used a fifty cent size piece of stone for months at a time when I was a
hand rolled cigarette chain smoker and lit every smoke or fire with flint &
steel. A good flint doesn't wear out in a few strokes. I have been using the
same steel since '76, it's worn but still works.
When I was only striking a light I usually caught a spark with a single
strike. Now several years later (and out of daily practice) it usually
takes a
few strokes to do the same.
Back in '79 I was on a ride in Wyoming with a large AMM brigade. One of the
graybeards was complaining about not being able to strike a spark during a
break to rest the horses. First he thought it was his stone so I took it and
struck spark, then he figured it was his striker, it too worked for me,
then he
figured it was his char and that worked for me as well with his stone and
striker. The point is I was in practice and he wasn't.
Practice makes perfect.
Technique will suffer with lack of use.
John...
At 01:46 PM 7/7/99 -0700, you wrote:
>I've never made fire with flint a steel before but just a piece of flint
>and a steel striker from TOTW. I haven't made any char yet, but have been
>trying to learn to consistently make sparks. Problem is: sometimes I get a
>shower of sparks and other times I strike and strike and don't get any. I
>can't seem to tell what's making the difference; seems like I am doing it
>the same each time. Does it only take a few strikes to dull or wear out the
>edge of the flint? Am I looking for the sharpest edge on the flint I can
>find or what.? Should the striker be hard like a file? Mild steel? In
>between? I am striking the steel with the flint; I suppose this is the
>correct way!
>
>Munroe Crutchley
>Grants Pass, OR
>
Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 17:46:33 -0500
From: Bishnow <bishnows@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: MtMan-List - Joining the AMM
John Kramer wrote:
>
> Sorry to disillusion you LongWalker but, AMM has something over 500 members at
> present, it began with 5 good men. We are approaching 2000 member numbers
> issued over the years.
>
> The information is free, no fine nor fancy plunder is needed. I am
> disappointed to hear some didn't keep their commitments to meet you, that is
> not what we are about.
>
> The only way to join is to be sponsored by a party, two bosslopers or one
> hiveranno. We take sponsorship very seriously, as we are first a
> brotherhood.
> Until we've been on the ground with a prospect in all seasons, it seldom
> happens. We are each personally responsible to all the other brothers for the
> people we sponsor.
>
> There was a time when most anyone could join by asking and that brought a few
> problems. Now sponsorship is the only way to join, it is not problem free.
>
> Sometimes it's difficult to make location & schedules coincide to where you
> become well enough acquainted with one or more of us to be invited to join.
> In
> some areas there are very active parties and joining up through one of them
> isn't as difficult as happening to know a member and becoming close enough for
> them to know you well enough to offer membership, and when necessary find
> you a
> second sponsor. The best way that can happen is to spend time together on the
> trail.
>
> Dean tries to find someone close by to contact when someone requests
> information about joining. Sometimes that works out and sometimes it
> doesn't.
> It is a group of individualists some of whom are pretty set in their ways.
> Some winter alone very nicely.
>
> To give you an idea of how we're spread out; there is an active party about
> 250
> miles East of me, there is one other member within 100 miles North, and one
> more another 100 miles on up the road. Its 300 miles South and 500 miles West
> to find more. I don't get to see any of them often. Joining is often not
> something easily planned, those who belong find their way to us sooner or
> later.
>
> John...
> Hiveranno, #656
>
> At 09:53 PM 6/30/99 -0500, you wrote:
> >Washtahay-
> >At 08:35 PM 6/30/99 -0500, you wrote:
> >>How does one go about joining the AMM? There's only a handful of
> >skinners in my immediate area, most folks are Civil War folks.
> > Todd, they don't really exist.
> > Its really just two or three guys who came up with this great scheme to
> >drive people crazy-lets PRETEND to start this really neat sounding
> >organization. When people try to contact us to ask about joining, we'll
> >send them to someone else, who will send them to someone else, and so on
> >and so on.... it took a lot of time, writing a lot of letters, making a
> >lot of phone calls, spending a lot of money to travel a lot of miles to
> >meet folks who didn't show up (if they ever existed!) when they said they
> >would before I figured that one out.
> > I'm not sure who the two or three guys are though. One of these days I am
> >gonna come up with some really great trade goods to bribe Hawk or John
> >Kramer into telling me-pretty sure one or the other of them would have some
> >clues.
> > Unless you already have those great trade goods to part with, or a lot of
> >time to waste trying to find the mythical AMM, read Nasitir and Drummond
> >and maybe Anderson's journals-still frustrating at times but the results
> >are likely to be more tangible!
> >LongWalker c. du B.
> >
> If it ain't exactly right, it's wrong.
> john <kramer@kramerize.com
We Don't advertise.
Snakeshot #1593
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 18:00:59 -0700
From: Pat Quilter <pat_quilter@qscaudio.com>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Flint and steel
Not specifically mentioned below is that most people hold the flint in one
hand, and strike it with the steel, using a glancing blow, as if you were
shaking a fly off the fist holding the steel. This will shave sparks off as
noted, which land on the char cloth held either above or below the flint
(whatever seems more secure, and after noting where your stroke sends the
most sparks). Also, I have made char in a lot less than 45 minutes, I
suppose it depends on the heat of the fire. The main amount of smoke gets
over with in 5-10 minutes; there is some question whether you can "overcook"
the char, but in any case, after the smoke dies away, allow to cool before
inspecting. It will probably work if it is dark brown to fully black. If it
will not take a spark, test with a match -- if it will not catch, your cloth
may have had fire retardent added (washing thoroughly may help). Any amount
of synthetic fiber will also gum up the works with a plastic coating. Use a
long, slowly building breath of air to nurse your glowing char into a flame
- -- don't huff and puff.
Pat Quilter.
- -----Original Message-----
From: KC764@aol.com [mailto:KC764@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 1999 3:21 PM
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flint and steel
Munroe:
You can make char cloth easily by putting some 100% cotton or flax material
in a tight can, like a steel film can, with a small hole in the top from,
say, an ice pick, or the tip of a knife. This material can not have fire
proof treatment, for obvious reasons. Put the can in a camp fire or a
propane bbq, not on your home stove, so your wife doesn't kill you and leave
it there until it stops smoking, about 45 minutes or an hour. This "burns"
the cloth in an oxygen free environment, thereby not completely consuming
the
material and making it suseptable to catching a spark.
As far as your flint; yes you get the best results from a sharp edge. Use
your fire steel to knap the edge of the rock, by striking it and knocking a
sharp edge into the rock. By the way, other rocks, besides flint, will
create a spark, e.g., quartz, that I pick up out here in the west all the
time, sparks very well. Also, you will notice that some rocks have "hot
spots" and you will learn to know your rocks. These "hot spots" are where
you will want to continue to strike, for best results.
Your fire steel needs to be high carbon steel. Anybody who makes them,
commercially, will make them from high carbon steel, or they won't sell
many,
because they won't work.
Make a "nest" from dried grass, dead bark from a cedar tree, or something
along those lines. Put your rock on top of a piece of your charcloth,
strike
the rock and catch a spark on it. Then, place the glowing cloth in the
middle of your "nest", blow on it until it bursts into flame and place it in
you prepared kindling where you want your fire. OSHA warning; this will be
hot so don't hold onto it very long (so we don't get sued).
Hope this helps.
Carp
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 18:54:03 -0700
From: "john c. funk,jr" <j2hearts@shasta.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flint and steel
Monroe,
It is the steel and not the rock that cause the sparks.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <KC764@aol.com>
To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 1999 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flint and steel
> Munroe:
> You can make char cloth easily by putting some 100% cotton or flax
material
> in a tight can, like a steel film can, with a small hole in the top from,
> say, an ice pick, or the tip of a knife. This material can not have fire
> proof treatment, for obvious reasons. Put the can in a camp fire or a
> propane bbq, not on your home stove, so your wife doesn't kill you and
leave
> it there until it stops smoking, about 45 minutes or an hour. This
"burns"
> the cloth in an oxygen free environment, thereby not completely consuming
the
> material and making it suseptable to catching a spark.
>
> As far as your flint; yes you get the best results from a sharp edge. Use
> your fire steel to knap the edge of the rock, by striking it and knocking
a
> sharp edge into the rock. By the way, other rocks, besides flint, will
> create a spark, e.g., quartz, that I pick up out here in the west all the
> time, sparks very well. Also, you will notice that some rocks have "hot
> spots" and you will learn to know your rocks. These "hot spots" are where
> you will want to continue to strike, for best results.
>
> Your fire steel needs to be high carbon steel. Anybody who makes them,
> commercially, will make them from high carbon steel, or they won't sell
many,
> because they won't work.
>
> Make a "nest" from dried grass, dead bark from a cedar tree, or something
> along those lines. Put your rock on top of a piece of your charcloth,
strike
> the rock and catch a spark on it. Then, place the glowing cloth in the
> middle of your "nest", blow on it until it bursts into flame and place it
in
> you prepared kindling where you want your fire. OSHA warning; this will
be
> hot so don't hold onto it very long (so we don't get sued).
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Carp
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 22:16:13 -0500
From: "Ratcliff" <rat@htcomp.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flint and steel
Munroe
To clarify another post, the flint scrapes tiny pieces of steel from =
the striker which are rendered essentially molten by the friction of the =
scraping action of the flint on the steel. These tiny pieces of hot =
steel are the sparks that will ignite charred fabric or wood. A good =
sharp flint and a good steel will produce plenty of sparks virtually =
every strike if the proper angle and speed are used . Getting a good =
shower of sparks is accomplished the same way a musician gets to =
Carnegie Hall....practice, practice, practice.
Lanney Ratcliff
- ----- Original Message -----=20
From: Munroe Crutchley <munroe@rvi.net>
To: Mountain Man List <hist_text@xmission.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 1999 3:46 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: Flint and steel
> I've never made fire with flint a steel before but just a piece of =
flint
> and a steel striker from TOTW. I haven't made any char yet, but have =
been
> trying to learn to consistently make sparks. Problem is: sometimes I =
get a
> shower of sparks and other times I strike and strike and don't get =
any. I
> can't seem to tell what's making the difference; seems like I am doing =
it
> the same each time. Does it only take a few strikes to dull or wear =
out the
> edge of the flint? Am I looking for the sharpest edge on the flint I =
can
> find or what.? Should the striker be hard like a file? Mild steel? In
> between? I am striking the steel with the flint; I suppose this is the
> correct way!
>=20
> Munroe Crutchley
> Grants Pass, OR
>=20
>=20
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 20:29:04 -0700
From: "Munroe Crutchley" <munroe@rvi.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: Flint and steel info
Thanks everyone for the info on firemaking; sounds like I need to put in
some time at it.
Munroe Crutchley
Grants Pass, OR
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 03:46:19 GMT
From: rparker7@ix.netcom.com (Roy Parker)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flint and steel
On Wed, 7 Jul 1999 13:46:47 -0700, you wrote:
>I've never made fire with flint a steel before but just a piece of flint
>and a steel striker from TOTW. I haven't made any char yet, but have =
been
>trying to learn to consistently make sparks. Problem is: sometimes I get=
a
>shower of sparks and other times I strike and strike and don't get any. =
I
>can't seem to tell what's making the difference; seems like I am doing =
it
>the same each time. Does it only take a few strikes to dull or wear out =
the
>edge of the flint? Am I looking for the sharpest edge on the flint I can
>find or what.? Should the striker be hard like a file? Mild steel? In
>between? I am striking the steel with the flint; I suppose this is the
>correct way!
>
>Munroe Crutchley
>Grants Pass, OR
>
>
Never have had time to finish this darn thing.... This is from March,
1998......just wanted to show Dean I still lurk a lot around here, but
don't post much any more. BTW, if anyone wants the pics of the New
Orleans price guide from 1831, I finally figured out how to send them
in a painless fashion.
Several people have asked for this information recently. The
following is a reprint of an article I posted in early October. The
finished article was lost in a hard disk crash around Thanksgiving,
and I have not recreated it. This is based on several years of
experience, and an exchange on the Usenet group soc.history.living
with several folks who also frequent this mailing list. Scott, see if
you can find your own words in this!
I'm sorry, but the article is NOT complete. If you've never made a
flint and steel fire before, here's the gist of it. The following is
a DRAFT copy. The actual article is only about half done. I=92m
retaining the copyright for this article, since I hope to have it
published for profit and make millions of dollars when Steven
Spielberg turns this into a major movie.. The final article had all
the contributors listed. I don't have them here, but pulled all the
1996-1997 exchanges off of Deja News by doing a search for "fire
starting". When I rewrite this, full credit to all contributors will
be given, especially for the info on charwood.
The article needs a lot of wordsmithing. I have not done much except
spell check it, so it is obviously not ready to go yet. =20
