> There was an article in Muzzleloader last year that covered this, documented
> it and showed how to do it.
C.T.:
Thanks for the memory jogger. I remember reading it now too. If you come up with
the ML issue in question pass it on and I'll look it up myself and pass the info
on to B'ar Killer on the MLML. thanks again. I remain......
YMOS
Capt. Lahti'
------------------------------
Date: 7 May 1999 09:00:30 -0700
From: <turtle@uswestmail.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: In the white vs. browning vs. blueing
As a general rule of thumb, what Buck stated is pretty close, but there are always exceptions to anything as we have seen on the drop front pants discussion a week or two ago.
I read that the Manton's always blued or color case hardened all the metal parts, then at a museum in England I find two cased guns that are a plumb brown, they were originally manufactured in that finish by John Manton. Have seen documentation stating the same about Twig (Manton learned his trade from him), same story as the Manton's - blued or color case hardened all the metal parts, then see a brown metal pair of matched pistols !
When we state white is white or black is black, that may not always be true because somewhere theres a gray one.
Turtle.
> On Fri, 07 May 1999, buck.conner@uswestmail.net wrote:
>
> Sorry, Caywood and your father are correct; government contracts, tradegun contracts for the most part stated "white" or "blue" for a finish. Information on many of the gun builders built guns with metal "white" as a standard in the early years according to Kit Ravenshear, around the turn of the 19th century "browning" started to appear. Usually weapons before that may have looked "browned" or "modeled" in appearance, but were really just rusted, as starting life in the white.
>
> I'll sure others will have different opinions, but like Hawk will tell you, look for good documentation, don't listen to uneducated guesses.
>
> Buck
>
> > On Thu, 06 May 1999, Barbara Smith wrote:
> >
> > Okay, I felt like opening a can of worms, so I'm tossing this out to
> > ya'll:
> >
> > My Dad is building me a gun. We're discussing all the minutae. He's
> > decided to buy a kit from Caywood that sound pretty great. Caywood tells
> > him that they can supply it in the white or blued. They say that blued
> > is historically accurate.
> >
> > Now, my running buddies are all over me to take the blueing off my brand
> > new flintlock and brown it! So, I says to Dad: "I want it in the white
> > or browned." So Dad, being related to me, proceeds to drown me in facts
> > about how blued is historically accurate. Help! Dad's a great guy, and
> > has been shooting muzzleloaders all his life, but he's not "one of us!"
> > And I just don't trust a guy who won't truss his privates up in a piece
> > of wool! Any of you guys who've been to the Museum of the Fur Trade
> > care to tell me what you saw there?
> >
> > Most gratefully yours,
> > Tassee
>
>
> Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 09:03:42 -0700
From: Roger Lahti <lahtirog@gte.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: [Fwd: Period correct footwear]
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C. T.:
Just got this answer to our question about an article on wooden shoes.
Hope this speeds up your search and thanks for the comeback. I
remain.......
YMOS
Capt. Lahti'
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B'ar Killer:
I think the reference if "Sabots" in the Mar/Apr 1997 issue of Muzz
Loader by Cathy Johnson.
>>support the use of "wooden shoes" but they generally didn't seem to
>Wish you could remember the source. My understanding is that clogs
>
>B'ar Killer
Red Thumb
redthumbw@juno.com
- --------------7839A663BFBB9A84A85A92E2--
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 12:30:06 -0400
From: Bob Spencer <bspen@aye.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re:wooden shoes
>Thanks for the memory jogger. I remember reading it now too. If you come
>up with
>the ML issue in question pass it on and I'll look it up myself and pass
>the info
>on to B'ar Killer on the MLML. thanks again. I remain......
The article you are looking for is in the Mar/Apr 1997 issue of
Muzzleloader, but it's by Cathy Johnson, not Beth Gilgun. Page 79, "Sabot".
BTW, there is an index of all issues of Muzzleloader since 1992 on the MLML
home page. Quick and easy to find stuff there, since your browser will do a
word search for you. Have to know the proper word, though.
Bob
Bob Spencer <bspen@aye.net>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 09:55:15 -0700
From: Roger Lahti <lahtirog@gte.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: In the white vs. browning vs. blueing
Barbara Smith wrote:
> Okay, I felt like opening a can of worms, so I'm tossing this out to
> ya'll:
>
> My Dad is building me a gun. They say that blued
> is historically accurate.
>
> And I just don't trust a guy who won't truss his privates up in a piece
> of wool! Any of you guys who've been to the Museum of the Fur Trade
> care to tell me what you saw there?
Tassee;
Well darlin, you know you can trust the "old Captain" now don't cha? Your
daddy and Caywood are right when they say that "in the white or blued" is
historically correct for many of the old guns. The problem is in appearance
and peer pressure. For my part I would go with in the white or brown. Mainly
because I don't like the look of blued muzzleloaders and I don't like a
shiny barrel in the woods though they do look nice, especially after they
have taken on an aged appearance. In any case it is your gun and you should
be able to have it any way you want.
As to the Museum of the Fur Trade, it has been a number of years since I was
there but most of the old guns I have seen in that collection and since in
other collections were brown whether they started out that way or ended up
that way from natural rusting. That may be why we "see" browned metal parts
as being correct to our modern eye even though they may have been white or
blue to start out with originally. Walk your own path young lady! I
remain........
YMOS
Capt. Lahti'
>
>
> Most gratefully yours,
> Tassee
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 10:14:21 -0500
From: Mike Rock <mikerock@mhtc.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: hist_text-digest V1 #294
Want something to talk about? Okay, all the Scots running around in
plaids and playing the pipes at Rendezvous. Real or what? I know the
pipes would put the run on the Injun's, but were they AT any of the
original Rendy'z?
And now a treat. At a midwest Rendezvous this last weekend, almost all
of us, all three hundred lodges, got to see a NEW Hawken. The paperwork
by John Baird was within the last year. He surmises the piece was part
of the Ashley resupply effort of 1822, which if you read up on it, had
Ashley back on the river in just two weeks time, re outfitted. As it
was the peak of the season, Hawken and the other smiths in town were
short handed, and every available smith was put in a tizzy getting
Ashley going. The rifle is fullstock, brass furniture, and has a stamp
that does not have the St. Louis. Baird has seen it on two other guns,
one a pistol. The three pieces are non-typical of the shop's run of the
mill work. This is he feels, due to the emergency nature of the work,
and the fact that non-Hawken smiths were pressed into service for the
jobs. Great rifle, great work by Baird, and such a deal for the
finder.
Rock
------------------------------
Date: 7 May 1999 10:35:31 -0700
From: <buck.conner@uswestmail.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: In the white-brown-blue vs aging
Barbara,
Another choice is to have your father "age" the white metal parts, there are many methods around to do this giving the appearance of a gun that has a few years of wear. (some folks make a weapon look 100 years old and their persona is 1780 with a correct gun, except it looks older than the period, thus missing the whole point of period correct.) Hope that can out right.
I use your common old Clorox bleach and cold gun blue, clean the metal - then wipe on the bleach, let the parts set for an hour - wipe on the cold blue and then wipe again with the bleach. Let the second coat sit for 1/2 an hour and then wash off. Don't forget to plug bore, vent hole, etc., then wash with soap/water and oil. This will give a pleasing look that would have taken a year or two of field use to get. Oil when you clean and thats as simple as it gets, plus its easy to touch up in case of an accident.
Buck Conner
Colorado Territory
> On Fri, 07 May 1999, Roger Lahti wrote:
> Barbara Smith wrote:
>
> > Okay, I felt like opening a can of worms, so I'm tossing this out to
> > ya'll:
> >
> > My Dad is building me a gun. They say that blued
> > is historically accurate.
> >
> > And I just don't trust a guy who won't truss his privates up in a piece
> > of wool! Any of you guys who've been to the Museum of the Fur Trade
> > care to tell me what you saw there?
>
> Tassee;
>
> Well darlin, you know you can trust the "old Captain" now don't cha? Your
> daddy and Caywood are right when they say that "in the white or blued" is
> historically correct for many of the old guns. The problem is in appearance
> and peer pressure. For my part I would go with in the white or brown. Mainly
> because I don't like the look of blued muzzleloaders and I don't like a
> shiny barrel in the woods though they do look nice, especially after they
> have taken on an aged appearance. In any case it is your gun and you should
> be able to have it any way you want.
>
> As to the Museum of the Fur Trade, it has been a number of years since I was
> there but most of the old guns I have seen in that collection and since in
> other collections were brown whether they started out that way or ended up
> that way from natural rusting. That may be why we "see" browned metal parts
> as being correct to our modern eye even though they may have been white or
> blue to start out with originally. Walk your own path young lady! I
> remain........
>
> YMOS
> Capt. Lahti'
>
> >
> >
> > Most gratefully yours,
> > Tassee
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 18:00:24 +0000
From: Laura Rugel Glise <lglise@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dress of Sir William Drummond Stewart
Gail:
Thank you for responding to my e-mail. You were the only one that
jumped in. I am writing a novel of historical fiction, Across the
Seasons, involving Osborne Russell and the Rendezvous of 1838. The only
license I have taken is moving Alfred Jacob Miller from the Rendezvous
of 1837 to 1838. I know.
But although I am doing my best to be historically correct, I feel I can
justify the switch.
Available at the Museum? The Museum in Pinedale or Chadron.
Thank again for your help.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 19:51:06 -0600
From: David Mullen <dmullen@jemez.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dress of Sir William Drummond Stewart
Ms. Glise,
If you are doing research regarding the attire of Sir William Drummond
Stewart you may want to consider reading several very pertinent texts
regarding Sir William. The first book you may want to consult is
_Scotsman in Buckskin: Sir William Drummond Stewart and the Rocky
Mountain Fur Trade_ by Mae Reed Porter and Odessa Davenport (Hastings
House Publishers, New York, 1963). As you can see by the date the book
is far out of print and you will have to consult a library to find a
copy. Porter and Davenport did a nice job of putting together their
biography, yet the book does lack footnotes of any type. IIRC there is a
description of Sir William wearing tartan pantaloons at rendezvous.
There was no mention of kilts being worn by anyone.
A second book that you may wish to consult is _Edward Warren_ by Sir
William Drummond Stewart ( Mountain Press Publishing, Missoula, 1986).
This book by Stewart is semi-autobiographical in nature and has many
good references to clothing worn at rendezvous. This book is still
available and you should be ale to purchase a copy through your local
bookstore.
Additional artwork as done by Alfred Jacob Miller may be found in _The
West of Alfred Jacob Miller_ by Marvin C. Ross, and a series of Miller's
original drawings may be found in _A Series of Watercolour Drawings by
Alfred Jacob Miller_ (Parke_Bernet Galleries, Inc.).
Hope this is of some assistance.
YMHOS,
David Mullen
- --
David Mullen
202 Mesa Verde
Jemez Springs NM 87025
(505) 829-3212
email: dmullen@jemez.com
Laura Rugel Glise wrote:
>I need help from those subject-matter-experts familiar with Scottish
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>=20
>=20
------------------------------
Date: 8 May 1999 19:17:07 -0700
From: <buck.conner@uswestmail.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: Challenge of the Trail REVIEW
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Hello Camp,
Just finished viewing the latest video done by our guides: Jeff hengesbaugh and Wes Housler titled "Challenge of the Trail" Skills of the Mountain Man 1820-1840.
They are improving their acting skills, and the overall effort is well done for a low dollar to no dollar available production, when considered what Hollywood puts out these boys have done very good. The background, wildlife and general items viewed are easy to understand, a good learning experience for the new greenhorn or the seasoned traveler.
The boys cover horse care, packing, equipage for your animal, as well as edibles and general traveling tips for the horseman. What to take on the trail, horse security and safety, period horse gear and period packing .
19th century trail food and cooking (had to plug the food - Clark & Sons Mercantile of Colorado furnished their edibles, and that damn Jeff just mentions corn and jerky or jerky and corn), choosing a good camp to survival tips and much more.
Lets remember that these brothers of the fur trade are the only ones at this time providing video's of our time frame, this is what is needed to get and keep the interest of new comers. Most of us have been doing this for a period and seem to forget we need to encourage new blood to get involved or our life style will died once more as in the past, lets support Jeff and Wes's efforts in keeping the fur trade alive. Like the AMM and many rendezvous of correctness, and local clubs, that's all there is for trying to carry on the history and hopefully keep Hollywood from screwing up to bad in the future.
By the way the weapons, horse gear and equipage really looks good, may be PBS should take note, plus they covered some ground in the making of the film, a 270 mile ride. At the end of the ride Wes's lady told me that Wes's Dad wanted to turn around and ride back, even in his early 60's he's as tuff as ever.
Give them a call and thanks for your time.
YF&B
Buck Conner
Baker Party / Colorado
dba/ Clark & Sons Mercantile
http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
The address for the video is:
Rocky Mountain College Productions
22 Bell Canyon
Cloudcroft, NM 88317
505-687-3267
Challenge of the Trail
Video $19.95
Book $14.95
Dress and Equipage
Video $19.95
Book $14.95
Brain-tan Buffalo Hide
Video $24.95
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