ftp.xmission.com/2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar/ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/hist_text/archive/v01.n269

Internet Message Format | 1999-03-26 | 32KB

From: [e-mail] (hist_text-digest)
To: [e-mail]
Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #269
Reply-To: hist_text
Sender: [e-mail]
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: bulk


hist_text-digest        Friday, March 26 1999        Volume 01 : Number 269




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 21:31:22 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: jerky

In a message dated 3/24/99 7:36:39 PM Mountain Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:
<<  i got some bear to jerk for a trip. >>
I would be extremely careful of jerking bear meat due to trichinosis. If you
have not had the meat tested you are taking a grave risk. Neither the smoking,
drying, minimal heat used, pre-freezing of meat nor the spices used in most
smoking will kill the organism. In some areas a majority of the bears are
infected, especially the older they get. Either cook the meat well or have it
tested. Hope this doesn't ruin your day, but trichinosis will.

Ghosting Wolf
Wildlife Biologist
Montana

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 21:25:49 -0600 (CST)
From: "Susan Gilbert" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Trade goods

 Loaf sugar = blocks or cones of raw/brown sugar. You used a pair of sugar nips to
pinch off bits of it for use.

Pewter basons & c. = basins and cups, shallow bowls and cups.

Worsted or Cruels = types of yarn.  Worsted is used for knitting.  Cruels/Crewels are
used for embroidery.

Chintz = printed fabric with a highly polished surface finish.


Hope this helps a little,

Old Hands

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 22:33:01 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: walnut dye

hey howdy y'all.......

i went to the Kalamazoo Antique Arms and Trade Fair this weekend past........
made it through the first to "rooms" without spending a penny and then went
broke when i hit room #3 - the biggest and the best of the whole
show........... anyway, one of my purchases was a braintanned deer
hide........ i want to dye it dark brown using a walnut hull dye....... does
anyone have a good recipe or resource for this process?  i have dyed elk hide
in the past using...... and don't shoot me for saying this.......... RIT
dye..... it was passable and quite acceptable but i want to see if i can
really upset the ol' man by doing a walnut hull dye in the kitchen...... hee
hee hee!!!

scary mary

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 23:47:43 -0500
From: "Fred A. Miller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Goex/ Elephant

The Brooks wrote:
>
> Rumours are circulating here that advice has been received that Goex have
> sold out to Elephant lock stock and barrel. Apparently all equipment is
> heading south to Brazil wherever Elephant comes from. From now on all will
> be one or so the story goes. Anybody on the list able to confirm or deny???

Although it IS possible that this has happened, I'm quite certain that it
hasn't.  I will check on it, and IF it's true, I'll report back here ASAP.

Fred

- --
"Slicker 'n Willie Lube".......and that's doin some!
http://www.cap-n-ball.com/thunder/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 00:54:07 -0500
From: "Fred A. Miller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: GOEX sold...

OK.....there's NO truth to the rumor that GOEX has sold out to Elephant.  True,
they're not doing well at all, but they have NOT sold out......yet.

Fred

- --
"Slicker 'n Willie Lube".......and that's doin some!
http://www.cap-n-ball.com/thunder/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 21:16:05 -0600
From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Question About Barrel Length

I once asked a similar question at the old Green River Rifle Works.=20

What they basically said was that you get about all you're going to get o=
ut of
black powder in a 30" barrel --- beyond that it's only site plane, and
weight.=20


Best choose barrel length to suit the style you choose.

What really makes a long gun pleasant is to have a tapered or swamped bar=
rel.=20
Even helps a short gun carry and point.

I think a long barrel is particularly effective in heavy woods.  The long=
 site
plane helps in picking a shot through the foliage.   The extra length hel=
ps
open your path through the woods and aids silence. =20

I question a short fast handling gun being the best choice in heavy cover.
You
only get glimpses -- unless you're silently stalking or waiting -- snap s=
hots
mostly miss in heavy cover.

The old timers usually did what worked, there was generally a reason for =
what
they did.  Sometimes those reasons aren't apparent today.  There is much =
we
must surmise.

Think about the evolution of the long rifle.  It was developed from short=
er
European rifles like the Jaegar.  They lengthened the gun to accommodate =
the
thick forests that were then the frontier.  As the frontier pushed westwa=
rd
onto the plains a shorter, easier-to-handle-mounted, weapon came to be
preferred.  The Rocky Mountain fur trade was the period of transition.

I once heard a claim that fur traders convinced the natives that the long=
er
the
barrel the harder the gun shot.  This was supposed to work to the traders
favor
as the gun was sold for a stack of beaver hides as tall as the gun.  Henc=
e
42"+
barrels on NW Trade Guns.  Never seen any validity for the claim -- but a=
 nice
little story.

John...



At 03:43 PM 3/25/99 -0700, you wrote:
>
>
>Well I need some serious answers as I am trying to do battle with my nei=
ghbor
wh
>o is a retired engineer, and just starting into Black Powder shooting, a=
s too
bad
> for me, I got him interested in the hobby, he is driving me nuts with
questions,
> and a lot of whys that I can't answer.=A0 He analyzes everything.
>
>Beside now my neighbor has taken control of most of my good catalog
collection
th
>at he forgot I lent him.=A0 Sure I will get them back someday?
>
>So the latest question he keep hitting me with is Barrel Length verses
Accuracy,=20
>and I keep saying that if a barrel is over 35 inches long, and up to 44
inches
lo
>ng the only reason for the different length has to do with Original Styl=
es of
Rif
>le, and Smoothbores.=A0 That is why the difference in barrel lengths and=
 the
accura
>cy thing is not effected by barrel lengths.
>
>I think when he finally decide to take the plunge, and buy his first goo=
d
flintlo
>ck he is planning on buying a Caywood with the interchangeable barrel sy=
stem
so h
>e can do both the rifled, and smoothbore shooting.=A0=20
>
>I keep saying to myself to be nice to him as maybe when the neighbors di=
es he
wil
>l will me his collection of Black Powder stuff, as he has 20 years on me.
>
>Am I right when I saying, if a barrel is over 35 inches long, and up to =
44
inches
> long the only reason for the different length has to do with Original S=
tyles
of=20
>Rifle, and Smoothbores???
>
>B
>
>--
>=20
Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
John Kramer  <[e-mail]>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 00:39:13 -0600
From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re:history channel--the mountain man (long)

Larry & Todd,

Thanks for the critique & analysis.  Someone needs to speak up, otherwise too
many get the idea something like a lever gun is just right: when it is exactly
wrong.  It is sometimes hard to do for fear of offending those we know and
like.  I know one who was unaware he was in the film until I told him.  It was
taken from a clip of an  unrelated shoot he was on.  Some of these clips were
from a Kenny Rogers shoot a few years back.

I have already found the film valuable to illustrate the difference to a few
folks I'm introducing to the fur trade.

I wasn't surprised shocked or disappointed; it is about what I've come to
expect.  A bunch of us were invited to appear in full attire for what was
promised to be the most accurate fur trade movie ever made, the world premier
in Jackson Hole of Heston's "The Mountainmen", it was plumb embarrassing.
Even
for free: I never felt so cheated by a movie I'd paid to see.   I felt used.

HBC weren't the only --- way too purty to be a mountainman --- mountainman --
in the picture.  Them proper dressed scallywags was way too clean.

I once heard the basic color of a mountainman's attire was black and darker.
If you live, butcher and cook in the same outfit everyday in the dirt, that
seems about right.  They may not have found it necessary to grease things up,
everything was already pretty much coated with grease all the time, anyway.  I
suspect blankets and tarps as well.  Use original camouflage -- look like the
land you inhabit, by wearing it.  The grease makes it stick.  the wood ash
helps set PH and aids feel.  Rain and sun helps mellow.

Folklore suggests:  coating oneself with grease was thought to keep the
chilblains away, and an asafetida bag (to foil the croup) around the neck was
fairly common.  Asafetida stinks for years, it can't go bad.  Back East folks
was stitched into warm underclothes in the fall and they snipped the seams in
the Spring.  Trappers, with a bait box, who maintained some of their cherished
customs of youth had to be extra fragrant.

Wonder why I been talking about grease for four days and never once mentioned
soap?  It was possible to make soap with the fire, pots, grease, wood ash,
knowledge & water available to them, trade lists show soap was traded;  I
question how much was made and/or used; after all these were the dregs of
polite society.  Soap is useful for many purposes other than keeping clean.

I'm aware that some companies, brigades, and parties operated under military
style rules of the period for personal hygiene; as an aid to discipline.  I've
heard the homily that natives didn't like beards.  Some rules called for
shaving; bathing and washing one's clothes were not as much considered.  Some
individuals would then, as today, be more fastidious, environment would add at
least a little color.  Greasing the hair was a common part of a man's
toilet --
back East.

I'm just as guilty ---  I'm a lot cleaner now than I used to be, living on the
trail.  Best way to get the color just right is to live the life in the outfit
for a year or so.  Ain't too easy to do.  Color really starts coming up at 180
days.

Get out there and get greasy dirty, its Traditional.   Remember how much
fun it
was to roll in the mud as a kid?  O.S.H.A. orange buckskin don't have to stay
that way.  Greasing with natural materials like were used, leaves a better
feel
to the leather, petroleum grease stays nasty.  Hard to describe the
difference.

A bucket of grease, fire ash and a good black-mud hole could improve
everyone's
appearance.  Any volunteers?  Does kind of put off the women; or so I've
heard.  Get dirty enough and no one will know if it's braintan or not.  They
probably won't care.  Purists should add a quart of blood to the mix.

Maybe it's too authentic for most of the late 20th century?

Chapter 35 of Captain Bonneville's Adventures tells the tale of a particularly
foul native who ingratiated himself with the entire camp. (check Dean's web
site which everyone should have bookmarked by now).

Once knew a skinner who wore a raw pork chop for the three months of summer to
get his smell just right.  Amazingly, there was a few pretty women that still
kept company with him.

Good postings, thanks.

John...

May God bless our men and women who stand in harms way.  Heaven help us all.
What has he wrought?

Aren't you glad you didn't buy a Yugo?

Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
John Kramer  <[e-mail]>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 19:57:24 +1200
From: Duncan Macready <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: jerky

At 07:00 25/03/99 -0800, you wrote:
>Jon,
>
>I too have heard that bears are carriers of the dreaded trichinosis.
>
Hey how about takeing some meat to your local Agricultural Laboratory [or
Vetinary] and get a test for Trichonella carried out ,it can be done ,
check it out and save yourself some worry.
YMOS
Cutfinger

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 06:01:48 -0600
From: "Glenn Darilek" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: jerky

The Encarta encyclopedia at

http://encarta.msn.com/index/conciseindex/35/035CE000.htm

says bears carry trichinosos.

Glenn Darilek
Iron Burner



>At 07:00 25/03/99 -0800, you wrote:
>>Jon,
>>
>>I too have heard that bears are carriers of the dreaded trichinosis.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 07:59:47 -0600
From: "McKee" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: walnut dye

just a thought:  Is this hide smoked at all or just in the white?  Either
way, you might try smoking it darker instead of soaking it in a water based
dye like black walnut.  That way you wouldn't have to rework the hide to
soften it.    YMOS     Long John   #l677
- -----Original Message-----
From: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Thursday, March 25, 1999 9:49 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: walnut dye


>hey howdy y'all.......
>
>i went to the Kalamazoo Antique Arms and Trade Fair this weekend
past........
>made it through the first to "rooms" without spending a penny and then went
>broke when i hit room #3 - the biggest and the best of the whole
>show........... anyway, one of my purchases was a braintanned deer
>hide........ i want to dye it dark brown using a walnut hull dye.......
does
>anyone have a good recipe or resource for this process?  i have dyed elk
hide
>in the past using...... and don't shoot me for saying this.......... RIT
>dye..... it was passable and quite acceptable but i want to see if i can
>really upset the ol' man by doing a walnut hull dye in the kitchen......
hee
>hee hee!!!
>
>scary mary
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 08:15:44 -0600 (CST)
From: "Susan Gilbert" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: walnut dye

You can find out all you need at www.47.pair.com/lindo/dyelist.htm.  It's a natural dye list
that I've found very well done and useful.


Old Hands

Sue Gilbert
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:18:06 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: GOEX sold...

In a message dated 3/26/99, [e-mail] writes:

<< OK.....there's NO truth to the rumor that GOEX has sold out to Elephant.
True,
 they're not doing well at all, but they have NOT sold out......yet.  >>

Hmmm, perhaps this would be a good time for everyone to run out and buy a
couple cans.

                                                               Longshot

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 06:26:42 -0800
From: Carpenters <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: walnut dye

The bark of an oak tree and acorn hulls contain tannin.  This soaked in
water will give you a brown dye.

Carp

[e-mail] wrote:
>
>
> show........... anyway, one of my purchases was a braintanned deer
> hide........ i want to dye it dark brown using a walnut hull dye....... does
> anyone have a good recipe or resource for this process?
> scary mary

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 08:33:47 -0600
From: James A Lindberg <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: walnut dye

Susan Gilbert wrote:

> You can find out all you need at www.47.pair.com/lindo/dyelist.htm.  It's a natural dye list
> that I've found very well done and useful.
>
> Old Hands
>
> Sue Gilbert
> [e-mail]

The url doesn't seem to work, is it corect?

Thanks,

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 08:54:38 -0600
From: "Austin, Tim" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Trade Goods

Loaf sugar:  Good explanation has been given for this type sugar.  It can
still be bought at regular grocery stores in Houston, Austin, Dallas, Fort
Worth, TX.  At least these are the cities I have bought it in within the
past several years.  Found some at the grocery stores in Oklahoma City, just
looking as had plenty.  Paul Jones sells some really good stuff that is
wrapped in corn husks or something like that, and it is really good.
Contact him for some.
Hyson tea & Bohea tea: These are just types of tea.  Have bought these in
Williamsburg, VA in original looking paper there at the stores of Colonial
Williamsburg.  Have also bought them at local stores, grocery and specialty.

Black Cravats:  These would be neck ties.

Hope this helps.

Tim Austin

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 17:22:08 -0500
From: Linda Holley <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re:history channel--the mountain man (long)

> I wasn't surprised shocked or disappointed; it is about what I've come to
> expect.  A bunch of us were invited to appear in full attire for what was
> promised to be the most accurate fur trade movie ever made, the world premier
> in Jackson Hole of Heston's "The Mountainmen", it was plumb embarrassing.
> Even
> for free: I never felt so cheated by a movie I'd paid to see.   I felt used.

I thought the world premier was at La Junta, Colorado????  1980???  or was that
just a special showing for the Mountain men, and ladies, camped out at the Western
Rend.???? And we didn't have to pay.
But then we never got to see it either.  The wind came down and torn the screen in
half.  Now there was something Heston could not stop.  Then they moved the movie
down to the drive-in
theater and bussed us "campers" into town to see the thing.  BTW...the town mayor
is still looking for the cashier.  Seems she ran off with some wily buckskinners.
And then there was something about damaging the speakers by counting coup on the
things????  Were any of you guys on the bus???

Linda Holley

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 17:06:17 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Angela Gottfred)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Trade goods

Joe Brandl ( [e-mail]) wrote:

>>What is Loaf sugar<<  white sugar made into cones ('loaves')
>> Muscovado<<           brown sugar, I think
>> Hyson tea<<              green tea
>> Bohea tea<<              black tea?
>> Pewter basons & c<<
                                     I think this actually means pewter mugs
(not basins), but I'd love to have it clarified; I'm having problems
figuring it out too.
>> tap bores<<         an auger to bore a hole in a barrel to put a tap in,
I'd guess
>> Worsted or Cruels, Blotting Cloaths<<
                                worsted means wool cloth or yarn; the rest
has me puzzled
>>Chintz<<             a kind of glazed cloth
>>Black Cravats<< black neck-cloths, long & thin, made from silk or linen
>>Cutteaus<<          ''coteaux" is French for "knives"
>>wrist bands?<<   Trade silver bracelets?

Your humble & obedient servant,
Angela Gottfred
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 19:14:00 -0500
From: "Fred A. Miller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: GOEX sold...

[e-mail] wrote:
>
> In a message dated 3/26/99, [e-mail] writes:
>
> << OK.....there's NO truth to the rumor that GOEX has sold out to Elephant.
> True,
>  they're not doing well at all, but they have NOT sold out......yet.  >>
>
> Hmmm, perhaps this would be a good time for everyone to run out and buy a
> couple cans.

Why?

Fred

- --
"Slicker 'n Willie Lube".......and that's doin some!
http://www.cap-n-ball.com/thunder/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 17:27:04 -0700
From: "Barry Conner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re:history channel--the mountain man (long)

Linda,

That was a special showing at the Western Nationals at La Veta Colorado in
1980, but all we saw were the credits, then the wind blew down the
make-shiff screen and ended the show. The best part of the whole evening was
Heston stepping up, held his hands to the sky and said "How soon they
forget", like he was in the "Ten Commandments".

Have been in a half dozen Hollywood movies and as far as what they did in
the "Mountainmen" was average.  "Black Robe" was a completely different
story, there are some directors that have a better grasp on what's happening
than others that may have been mislead. Overall things seem to keep
improving as more knowledgable folks get involved.

As far as Heston goes he's an actor and prides himself in that, Keith was
the one we hung out with at night and he brought the booze, and told us all
the old war stories. The next day he couldn't remember his lines, and that
went on for the three and half weeks we were there.

As far as the cash lady, think it was "Big Step" and "Crazy Bear" that got
blamed for that.

Buck
__________________
- -----Original Message-----
From: Linda Holley <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Friday, March 26, 1999 3:14 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re:history channel--the mountain man (long)



>I thought the world premier was at La Junta, Colorado????  1980???  or was
that
>just a special showing for the Mountain men, and ladies, camped out at the
Western
>Rend.???? And we didn't have to pay.
>But then we never got to see it either.  The wind came down and torn the
screen in
>half.  Now there was something Heston could not stop.  Then they moved the
movie
>down to the drive-in
>theater and bussed us "campers" into town to see the thing.  BTW...the town
mayor
>is still looking for the cashier.  Seems she ran off with some wily
buckskinners.
>And then there was something about damaging the speakers by counting coup
on the
>things????  Were any of you guys on the bus???
>
>Linda Holley
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 17:39:08 -0700
From: "Barry Conner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re:history channel--the mountain man (long)

John,

Jeff Hengesbaugh showed up in a new set of beautiful brain tanned skins, the
production people wanted to darken them, I stopped Jeff and told him what
they were using. "Plenty Whiskey" Woods almost had Tandy leather dye put on
his skins. They had no idea of the value or work involved in these out fits,
Linda would have killed those boys.

Many were dressed to the "T", and then there were some the production
company picked up that would make you cry, as you know.

Buck
________________
- -----Original Message-----
From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Thursday, March 25, 1999 11:41 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re:history channel--the mountain man (long)
>for free: I never felt so cheated by a movie I'd paid to see.   I felt
used.
>
>HBC weren't the only --- way too purty to be a mountainman ---
mountainman --
>in the picture.  Them proper dressed scallywags was way too clean.
>
>I once heard the basic color of a mountainman's attire was black and
darker.
>If you live, butcher and cook in the same outfit everyday in the dirt, that
>seems about right. .........
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 17:50:00 -0700
From: "Barry Conner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Trade Goods

Not trying to sell you guys, but have good information on site about what
your talking about, at :  http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/  last time
I put this out, was accused
of pushing wares, not so, take a look and you decide what was available. If
you like I can put a few trade lists on this page from an article published
in AMM Tomahawk & Long Rifle a few years ago, and a Rocky Mountain College
class given at the western nationals. Oh I found out how big Lanney was on a
trip to the parking area one day, wasn't sure if I had brought enough
supplies after looking him over, right Lanney.

Buck Conner
dba/Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Austin, Tim <[e-mail]>
To: '[e-mail]' <[e-mail]>
Date: Friday, March 26, 1999 7:55 AM
Subject: MtMan-List: Trade Goods


>Loaf sugar:  Good explanation has been given for this type sugar.  It can
>still be bought at regular grocery stores in Houston, Austin, Dallas, Fort
>Worth, TX.  At least these are the cities I have bought it in within the
>past several years.  Found some at the grocery stores in Oklahoma City,
just
>looking as had plenty.  Paul Jones sells some really good stuff that is
>wrapped in corn husks or something like that, and it is really good.
>Contact him for some.
>Hyson tea & Bohea tea: These are just types of tea.  Have bought these in
>Williamsburg, VA in original looking paper there at the stores of Colonial
>Williamsburg.  Have also bought them at local stores, grocery and
specialty.
>
>Black Cravats:  These would be neck ties.
>
>Hope this helps.
>
>Tim Austin
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 19:11:13 -0600
From: "larry pendleton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Question About Barrel Length

Guys,
  It's my understanding that the powder we have today is far superior to
what was generally available back then.  It is true that the oldtimers
thought the longer barrels were more accurate and would shoot farther.  I=
f
their powder was not as good then that may have been true.  I personally
prefer longer barrel lengths because of the longer sight planes.  As the
eyes go bad you need to move the rear sight farther down the barrel thus =
if
you have a 30 inch barrel you will shorten the sight plane by a very larg=
e
percentage.  Besides I just think the long guns look and feel better.  Bu=
t
to muddy the water a little, it is written that one of the Hawken Bros. w=
as
making a living in St. Louis primararilly shortening the trapper's Kentuc=
ky
Long Rifles by a foot or more in 1822.  Now go get him ! !
Pendleton

- ----------
> From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Question About Barrel Length
> Date: Thursday, March 25, 1999 9:16 PM
>=20
> I once asked a similar question at the old Green River Rifle Works.=20
>=20
> What they basically said was that you get about all you're going to get
out of
> black powder in a 30" barrel --- beyond that it's only site plane, and
> weight.=20
>=20
>=20
> Best choose barrel length to suit the style you choose.
>=20
> What really makes a long gun pleasant is to have a tapered or swamped
barrel.=20
> Even helps a short gun carry and point.
>=20
> I think a long barrel is particularly effective in heavy woods.  The lo=
ng
site
> plane helps in picking a shot through the foliage.   The extra length
helps
> open your path through the woods and aids silence. =20
>=20
> I question a short fast handling gun being the best choice in heavy
cover.
> You
> only get glimpses -- unless you're silently stalking or waiting -- snap
shots
> mostly miss in heavy cover.
>=20
> The old timers usually did what worked, there was generally a reason fo=
r
what
> they did.  Sometimes those reasons aren't apparent today.  There is muc=
h
we
> must surmise.
>=20
> Think about the evolution of the long rifle.  It was developed from
shorter
> European rifles like the Jaegar.  They lengthened the gun to accommodat=
e
the
> thick forests that were then the frontier.  As the frontier pushed
westward
> onto the plains a shorter, easier-to-handle-mounted, weapon came to be
> preferred.  The Rocky Mountain fur trade was the period of transition.
>=20
> I once heard a claim that fur traders convinced the natives that the
longer
> the
> barrel the harder the gun shot.  This was supposed to work to the trade=
rs
> favor
> as the gun was sold for a stack of beaver hides as tall as the gun.=20
Hence
> 42"+
> barrels on NW Trade Guns.  Never seen any validity for the claim -- but=
 a
nice
> little story.
>=20
> John...
>=20
>=20
>=20
> At 03:43 PM 3/25/99 -0700, you wrote:
> >
> >
> >Well I need some serious answers as I am trying to do battle with my
neighbor
> wh
> >o is a retired engineer, and just starting into Black Powder shooting,
as too
> bad
> > for me, I got him interested in the hobby, he is driving me nuts with
> questions,
> > and a lot of whys that I can't answer.=A0 He analyzes everything.
> >
> >Beside now my neighbor has taken control of most of my good catalog
> collection
> th
> >at he forgot I lent him.=A0 Sure I will get them back someday?
> >
> >So the latest question he keep hitting me with is Barrel Length verses
> Accuracy,=20
> >and I keep saying that if a barrel is over 35 inches long, and up to 4=
4
> inches
> lo
> >ng the only reason for the different length has to do with Original
Styles of
> Rif
> >le, and Smoothbores.=A0 That is why the difference in barrel lengths a=
nd
the
> accura
> >cy thing is not effected by barrel lengths.
> >
> >I think when he finally decide to take the plunge, and buy his first
good
> flintlo
> >ck he is planning on buying a Caywood with the interchangeable barrel
system
> so h
> >e can do both the rifled, and smoothbore shooting.=A0=20
> >
> >I keep saying to myself to be nice to him as maybe when the neighbors
dies he
> wil
> >l will me his collection of Black Powder stuff, as he has 20 years on
me.
> >
> >Am I right when I saying, if a barrel is over 35 inches long, and up t=
o
44
> inches
> > long the only reason for the different length has to do with Original
Styles
> of=20
> >Rifle, and Smoothbores???
> >
> >B
> >
> >--
> >=20
> Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
> John Kramer  <[e-mail]>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 20:21:38 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: GOEX sold...

In a message dated 3/27/99 12:13:56 AM !!!First Boot!!!, [e-mail]
writes:

<< Why? >>

Well I figure if they are expeiencing hard times, a rush of buisiness can't do
anything but help.....and I never have a problem with having a little extra
poeder around.  If we want to see them stay around...then we support the
product.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 17:59:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Lee Newbill <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Trade arrows

Good Day Folks

Had a gentleman write me with some questions I don't have answers to.
If'n one of ya'll are smarter than I (no wisecracks Cap'n!), then you
could either answer on the list and I'll forward the replies (preferred),
or answer him directly.

On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, Roger D. Hall wrote:
> sir could you plese help me. i just came across two metal arrow points
> tht i got at an antique store.  one has Fort Bridger  dakota territory
> 1820 stamped on it  Fort bridger did not exist then it looks old has
> defects in the engraving and small hole in the base it is a wide v  with
> only one smass hole in the shaft.
> the oter one has  N E 1844 on it it is a thicer point heaver than the
> first. could you give me a little help
Roger D. Hall <[e-mail]>

Regards

Lee Newbill of Viola, Idaho
NMLRA member 058863
email at [e-mail]
Keeper of the "Buckskins & Blackpowder!" Webpage
http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Gorge/7186

------------------------------

End of hist_text-digest V1 #269
*******************************

-
 To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to
"[e-mail]"
 with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.
 For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
 "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.