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Internet Message Format  |  1998-12-23  |  40KB
  1. From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest)
  2. To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
  3. Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #203
  4. Reply-To: hist_text
  5. Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
  6. Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
  7. Precedence: bulk
  8.  
  9.  
  10. hist_text-digest     Wednesday, December 23 1998     Volume 01 : Number 203
  11.  
  12.  
  13.  
  14.  
  15. ----------------------------------------------------------------------
  16.  
  17. Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 18:31:16 EST
  18. From: RR1LA@aol.com
  19. Subject: Re: MtMan-List: canoes
  20.  
  21. Don, I know this isn't directly applicable, but I recently watched a show
  22. about the Amazonian Indians using a centuries only method of burning out
  23. canoes, and they DID use water to stop burning when it got too deep into the
  24. wood, and also to solidify the burned areas.  To start, they would hack a
  25. groove into the top of a log, then pour coals into the groove and let them
  26. burn out the green wood,clean out the ash and add more coals when those
  27. cooled, etc etc, until they approached the depth they wanted.  
  28. Then they would scrape out the final interior shape with knives and sticks.
  29. Hope this is of some help.   Barney P. Fife
  30.  
  31. ------------------------------
  32.  
  33. Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 18:43:13 EST
  34. From: ThisOldFox@aol.com
  35. Subject: Re: MtMan-List: amazing(dugouts)
  36.  
  37. In a message dated 98-12-23 18:32:42 EST, you write:
  38. > Anyone have any ideas on a better wood that won't have such a problem of
  39. >  cracking, (my wife's fish pond isn't big enough to hold a 17" dugout unless
  40. >  its cut in half !!!!!!)
  41.  
  42. In your case Buck, I would suggest a teak canoe.  Then you wouldn't have to
  43. sink it to keep it wet.
  44.  
  45. One often finds cottonwoods along the river that have fallen down for one
  46. reason or another, and which are washed up on the bank.  Since it is the
  47. drying and shrinking process that causes the cracks, wouldn't it make sense to
  48. use an already seasoned log which has been dried, but has not yet started to
  49. rot.  On the other hand, Louisiana pirogues are hacked from some type of
  50. native wood down there.  Perhaps we could learn from that technology.
  51.  
  52. Dave Kanger
  53.  
  54. ------------------------------
  55.  
  56. Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 16:47:06 -0700
  57. From: "Matt Richards" <backcountry@braintan.com>
  58. Subject: Re: MtMan-List: canoes
  59.  
  60. A real typical way to do controlled burns on canoes, bowls or anything was
  61. to apply a wet mud pack to areas you didn't want to burn at that moment.
  62. Maybe this is where you are getting the water thing from.
  63.  
  64. Matt Richards
  65. www.braintan.com
  66.  
  67. ------------------------------
  68.  
  69. Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 18:54:22 EST
  70. From: DPOCTALC@aol.com
  71. Subject: Re: MtMan-List: canoes
  72.  
  73. Thanks Barney
  74. I was aware of the burning and cooling process but now am thinking that the
  75. Indians or whoever submersed the entire canoe into the water rather then
  76. pouring water onto the burned area, so as Buck mentioned to not only stop the
  77. burning but to keep the canoe from cracking.  Lewis and Clark did this when
  78. they cached their canoes as they headed into the Bitterroots and the Lolo
  79. Trail.
  80. Thanks for the input 
  81. DON 
  82.  
  83. ------------------------------
  84.  
  85. Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 17:05:23 -0700
  86. From: "Barry Conner" <buck.conner@worldnet.att.net>
  87. Subject: Re: MtMan-List: amazing(dugouts)
  88.  
  89. Thanks Dave,
  90.  
  91. I believe Freddie Harris is still in the wood business, gunstocks and wide
  92. board flooring, don't have his number but Jack Gardner will (hunting pals).
  93.  
  94. I have gotten native wood paddles from Freddie that he cut in Mississippi or
  95. a near by southern state, will let you know if I have any luck.
  96.  
  97. How's everyone doing back there on the Missouri and how's the club doing,
  98. good group.
  99.  
  100. Thanks again and Happy Holidays.
  101.  
  102. Buck
  103. ________________
  104. - -----Original Message-----
  105. From: ThisOldFox@aol.com <ThisOldFox@aol.com>
  106. To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
  107. Date: Wednesday, December 23, 1998 4:44 PM
  108. Subject: Re: MtMan-List: amazing(dugouts)
  109.  
  110.  
  111. >In a message dated 98-12-23 18:32:42 EST, you write:
  112. >> Anyone have any ideas on a better wood that won't have such a problem of
  113. >>  cracking, (my wife's fish pond isn't big enough to hold a 17" dugout
  114. unless
  115. >>  its cut in half !!!!!!)
  116. >
  117. >In your case Buck, I would suggest a teak canoe.  Then you wouldn't have to
  118. >sink it to keep it wet.
  119. >
  120. >One often finds cottonwoods along the river that have fallen down for one
  121. >reason or another, and which are washed up on the bank.  Since it is the
  122. >drying and shrinking process that causes the cracks, wouldn't it make sense
  123. to
  124. >use an already seasoned log which has been dried, but has not yet started
  125. to
  126. >rot.  On the other hand, Louisiana pirogues are hacked from some type of
  127. >native wood down there.  Perhaps we could learn from that technology.
  128. >
  129. >Dave Kanger
  130. >
  131. >
  132.  
  133. ------------------------------
  134.  
  135. Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 19:24:38 EST
  136. From: DPOCTALC@aol.com
  137. Subject: MtMan-List: mm archive
  138.  
  139. Thanks to who ever recommend the MM Discussion List Archives.
  140. What a wealth of information!
  141. DON
  142.  
  143. ------------------------------
  144.  
  145. Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 18:40:13 -0600
  146. From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <rat@htcomp.net>
  147. Subject: Re: MtMan-List: mm archive
  148.  
  149. That was me.  You're welcome.  A person could spend many winter nights =
  150. lost in those files.  Did you check the journals and trading manifests =
  151. yet?  Outrageous!!
  152. YMOS
  153. Lanney Ratcliff
  154. rat@htcomp.net
  155. - -----Original Message-----
  156. From: DPOCTALC@aol.com <DPOCTALC@aol.com>
  157. To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
  158. Date: Wednesday, December 23, 1998 6:25 PM
  159. Subject: MtMan-List: mm archive
  160.  
  161.  
  162. >Thanks to who ever recommend the MM Discussion List Archives.
  163. >What a wealth of information!
  164. >DON
  165. >
  166. >
  167.  
  168. ------------------------------
  169.  
  170. Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 19:59:16 EST
  171. From: DPOCTALC@aol.com
  172. Subject: Re: MtMan-List: mm archive
  173.  
  174. Hey Lanney,
  175. I'll check the journals and the trade manifests tonight...while I warm my feet
  176. by the fire
  177. DON
  178.  
  179. ------------------------------
  180.  
  181. Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 18:05:50 -0700
  182. From: jbrandl@wyoming.com (Joe Brandl)
  183. Subject: MtMan-List: a gift
  184.  
  185. - --========================_65544748==_
  186. Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
  187.  
  188. Dear sirs,
  189. I would like a 20 ft dugout canoe for christmas
  190. Thank you in advance
  191. Joe
  192.  
  193. Here is a photo that is seasonally funny
  194.  
  195.  
  196.  
  197. - --========================_65544748==_
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  518.  
  519.  
  520. - --========================_65544748==_
  521. Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
  522.  
  523. Absaroka Western Designs and Tannery
  524. Call us about our professional home tanning kit-307-455-2440
  525. Write for custom tanning prices
  526. We produce rawhide lampshades and carry a large selection of leather and
  527. hair on robes
  528. Fine lodgepole furniture, pillows, Indian reproductions, paintings, baskets
  529. check out our new web site: http://www.onpages.com/absaroka
  530.  
  531.  
  532.  
  533. - --========================_65544748==_--
  534.  
  535. ------------------------------
  536.  
  537. Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 19:16:34 -0600
  538. From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <rat@htcomp.net>
  539. Subject: Re: MtMan-List: mm archive
  540.  
  541. See there, you had a sense of humor all along.  That danged ol' Dennis =
  542. Miles has sniffed way too much coal smoke.   But he is somebody to call =
  543. if you need a little smithy work done.  Check out the website at =
  544. http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1
  545. Lanney
  546. - -----Original Message-----
  547. From: DPOCTALC@aol.com <DPOCTALC@aol.com>
  548. To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
  549. Date: Wednesday, December 23, 1998 6:59 PM
  550. Subject: Re: MtMan-List: mm archive
  551.  
  552.  
  553. >Hey Lanney,
  554. >I'll check the journals and the trade manifests tonight...while I warm =
  555. my feet
  556. >by the fire
  557. >DON
  558. >
  559. >
  560.  
  561. ------------------------------
  562.  
  563. Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 20:22:16 -0500
  564. From: Linda Holley <tipis@mediaone.net>
  565. Subject: Re: MtMan-List: single women
  566.  
  567. If I could figure a way of putting a picture on here I would.
  568. Merry Xmas "you All"  from the deep south.  I will be camping in my tipi for
  569. that good day in warm weather, compared to all of you.
  570.  
  571. Linda Holley
  572.  
  573. Barry Conner wrote:
  574.  
  575. > Linda,
  576. >
  577. > Send Don a picture of the marquee, and wedge, bead work would also help.
  578. > Only kidding, have a Happy holiday.
  579. >
  580. > Buck
  581. > ______________-
  582. > -----Original Message-----
  583. > From: Linda Holley <tipis@mediaone.net>
  584. > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
  585. > Date: Wednesday, December 23, 1998 1:03 PM
  586. > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: single women
  587. >
  588. > >I know I do.  Been doing it a long time and met some mighty fine single and
  589. > >married men who's ladies do like it.
  590. > >Hey, I have two tipis, a marquee, and one wedge....and one of the best
  591. > >beaders in the US.  Don't like to brain tan though.
  592. > >
  593. > >Linda Holley
  594. > >
  595. > >Don Neighbors wrote:
  596. > >
  597. > >> I just went thru a divorce And I love to rendezvoo. My ex hated it. Are
  598. > >> there any single women who like to!  I am not after anything just wanted
  599. > >> to know if  all women hate to rendezvoo. Thank You Don Neighbors
  600. > >
  601. > >
  602. > >
  603.  
  604. ------------------------------
  605.  
  606. Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 20:19:54 -0500
  607. From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles)
  608. Subject: MtMan-List: >>AMAZING<<
  609.  
  610. Don,
  611.  
  612. No hard feelin's? I say just what I think, when I think it... Few exceptions
  613.  
  614. D
  615.  
  616.  
  617.    "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
  618.           DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
  619.   Period Knives & Iron Accouterments
  620.     http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1
  621.  
  622. ------------------------------
  623.  
  624. Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 17:45:25 -0800
  625. From: "Gail Carbiener" <carbg@cmc.net>
  626. Subject: MtMan-List: Char cloth
  627.  
  628. Happy hoildays to all..........
  629.  
  630. Following advice from this list, I made some Char cloth several months ago.
  631. On my first, second and third weeks it worked great. Caught the spark and
  632. off it went.
  633.  
  634. However, since that time it must have absorbed moisture cause I can lay
  635. sparks galore on it with no action!  My question is.... how in the dickens
  636. did the mountain men keep the stuff dry when they were in the winter snow,
  637. rain, etc. What kind of container did they have or did they re-dry it from
  638. time to time?
  639.  
  640. Gail Carbiener
  641.  
  642. ------------------------------
  643.  
  644. Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 20:46:35 EST
  645. From: DPOCTALC@aol.com
  646. Subject: Re: MtMan-List: >>AMAZING<<
  647.  
  648. Of course no hard feelings, after all I was the one who put his foot in his
  649. mouth, not you guys.
  650. Thanks Dennis, Merry Christmas
  651. We'll talk again?
  652. DON
  653.  
  654. ------------------------------
  655.  
  656. Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 21:08:16 -0500
  657. From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles)
  658. Subject: Re: MtMan-List: >>AMAZING<<
  659.  
  660. Eventually..Don.. Although there are a few out there that would advise agin
  661. it...
  662.  
  663. D
  664.  
  665.    "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
  666.           DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
  667.   Period Knives & Iron Accouterments
  668.     http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1
  669. - -----Original Message-----
  670. From: DPOCTALC@aol.com <DPOCTALC@aol.com>
  671. To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
  672. Date: Wednesday, December 23, 1998 9:06 PM
  673. Subject: Re: MtMan-List: >>AMAZING<<
  674.  
  675.  
  676. >Of course no hard feelings, after all I was the one who put his foot in his
  677. >mouth, not you guys.
  678. >Thanks Dennis, Merry Christmas
  679. >We'll talk again?
  680. >DON
  681. >
  682.  
  683. ------------------------------
  684.  
  685. Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 20:33:43 -0800
  686. From: Roger Lahti <lahtirog@gte.net>
  687. Subject: Re: MtMan-List: canoes
  688.  
  689. DPOCTALC@aol.com wrote:
  690.  
  691. > Thanks Capt. Lahti' and Hardtack
  692. > I heard that the Indians would cool down the fires/coals with water when the
  693. > burning was all done so they could control what they wanted burned!
  694. > Does that make sense?
  695. > DON
  696.  
  697.   Don,
  698.  
  699. Makes sense unless you know that it is real hard to get the big logs to burn on
  700. the inside. If you don't want it to burn anymore you just move the fire or
  701. scrape it off/down so it isn't consuming the wood. Hard to figure how to
  702. explain. I guess they could have been sprinkling water here and there to control
  703. the burn but it just didn't seem all that necessary to me. Get your self a big
  704. Ponderosa Pine log and start chopping and burning and let us know how it goes.
  705.  
  706. I know the coastal indians were using some fine stone hand adz' to remove wood
  707. on their canoes. They would carve the outside shape and then drill holes in to
  708. the center as far as they wanted the hull to be thick. They then carved out the
  709. insides until they hit the holes and then quit carving. Plugged the holes up
  710. with dowels or cedar and finished  the plugs off flush and then heat the insides
  711. with water and hot rocks until they could spread the sides a bit. the sides were
  712. held out with thwarts and walla its almost a boat! Sure would like a coastal
  713. indian boat. Can't afford the price of a cedar tree. I remain......
  714.  
  715. YMOS
  716. Capt. Lahti'
  717.  
  718. ------------------------------
  719.  
  720. Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 20:38:15 -0800 (PST)
  721. From: Lee Newbill <lnewbill@uidaho.edu>
  722. Subject: Re: MtMan-List: amazing
  723.  
  724. On Wed, 23 Dec 1998, Roger Lahti wrote:
  725. > A couple years ago the "boys" in that area made quit a spring project of turning
  726. > out several dug-out canoes for a recreation of L and C's trip on down the
  727. > Clearwater from that location.
  728. > If Vern
  729. > and Lee are on line maybe they will wade in? I remain....
  730.  
  731. hallo
  732.  
  733. broke my silly arm today so forgive the lack of punctuation
  734.  
  735. we used ponderosa pines for our dugouts.  on the burn vs adze wood
  736. removal, burning is nice if you had few tools and much time.  adzes
  737. and six men (read as relays) can turn out a decent dugout in about two
  738. days. we'd probably be faster if we did it more often.
  739.  
  740. char method was burn, extingish, scrape... burn, etc, etc velly slow.
  741. these dugouts wiegh half a ton or better, so cooling is appplird where
  742. they are being built... no volunteers to haul them to the water just fer a
  743. quick dunk.
  744.  
  745. of the three dugouts we have made, one was so checked (cracked) that it
  746. was donated for a permanent (dry) display.  the other two get used a lot
  747. when summer is here.  they are very heavy and don't do rapids well.
  748.  
  749. is a lot of work to get the finished product.
  750.  
  751. Regards
  752.  
  753. Lee Newbill
  754. Viola, Idaho
  755. email at lnewbill@uidaho.edu
  756. Keeper of the "Buckskins & Blackpowder!" Webpage
  757. http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Gorge/7186
  758.  
  759. ------------------------------
  760.  
  761. Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 20:38:36 -0800
  762. From: Roger Lahti <lahtirog@gte.net>
  763. Subject: Re: MtMan-List: amazing
  764.  
  765. Barry Conner wrote:
  766.  
  767. > Anyone have any ideas on a better wood that won't have such a problem of
  768. > cracking, (my wife's fish pond isn't big enough to hold a 17" dugout unless
  769. > its cut in half !!!!!!)
  770. >
  771. > Buck
  772.  
  773. Buck,
  774.  
  775. I know that cedar, pine and cyprus all have been used. I think cedar is the
  776. least likely to split if not submerged but you can also fill them with water
  777. which will help. I remain.....
  778.  
  779. YMOS
  780. Capt. Lahti'
  781.  
  782. > ___________________
  783. > -----Original Message-----
  784. > From: RANDAL J BUBLITZ <randybublitz@juno.com>
  785. > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
  786. > Date: Wednesday, December 23, 1998 4:14 PM
  787. > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: amazing
  788. >
  789. > >Don,  The corps of discovery made the canoes out of Ponderosa Pine.  I
  790. > >believe that cotton wood is prefered, but it was not growing at Canoe
  791. > >Camp.  The trees were green.  A small fire was built, and monitered, then
  792. > >coals were moved to allow chopping with axe.  I'm not sure were the water
  793. > >came in.  A Spanish Pause is slang for 'taking a breather'.  It has been
  794. > >suggested on this list to take a Spanish Pause before replying to a
  795. > >message, so as to not say something one may regret later.  It's like
  796. > >counting to ten...    The others provided good responses to your comment.
  797. > > I thought the comment about the buffalo foot wear was right up this
  798. > >lists alley.  We are all friends here, There is lots of good info. flying
  799. > >around, as well as friendly chat.  Welcome to the list, I look forward to
  800. > >swapping info. with you in the future, as well as friendly chat.   Take
  801. > >Care,  Hardtack
  802. > >
  803. > >___________________________________________________________________
  804. > >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
  805. > >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
  806. > >or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
  807. > >
  808.  
  809. ------------------------------
  810.  
  811. Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 20:45:56 -0800 (PST)
  812. From: Lee Newbill <lnewbill@uidaho.edu>
  813. Subject: MtMan-List: dugouts
  814.  
  815. fergot to mention... out up some pics on my webpage of our last effort...
  816. they are under "recreating history", url below
  817.  
  818. Regards
  819.  
  820. Lee Newbill
  821. Viola, Idaho
  822. email at lnewbill@uidaho.edu
  823. Keeper of the "Buckskins & Blackpowder!" Webpage
  824. http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Gorge/7186
  825.  
  826. ------------------------------
  827.  
  828. Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 16:45:00 -0800
  829. From: JW Stephens <johns@primarycolor.com>
  830. Subject: MtMan-List: re: ett-a-what?
  831.  
  832. I would just like to mention, for the benefit of those of us getting the
  833. digest version and/or with a slow internet connection, that the list
  834. works best with "Plain Text" instead of HTML, and no attachments.
  835. Instead of sending an attachment to the list, where it is usually
  836. translated into a lot of useless garbage, which is then multiplied by
  837. the number of recipients on the list, it is generally considered more
  838. useful to move a copy of the file to a publicly accessible site (like an
  839. FTP server) and then put a copy of the URL (or path) to the file into
  840. your e-mail.
  841.  
  842. On the subject of HTML vs. Plain Text messages: some e-mail clients
  843. default to HTML or "Multi-part MIME" for message formatting and you need
  844. to go into your Preferences or Options dialog and change your settings
  845. to generate Plain Text. Sometimes you can set the formatting
  846. specifically for a recipient, like "hist_text@lists.xmission.com" but
  847. then you need to be sure that you choose the recipient before you start
  848. writing your message.
  849.  
  850. Yeah, I know ... I'm not the list Mom and all that ... but I enjoy our
  851. little community here and I'd rather wade through greetings, love
  852. letters and weather reports than all of that HTML and file attachment
  853. crap.
  854.  
  855. If anyone needs help figuring this stuff out feel free to contact me
  856. off-list.
  857. - -- 
  858.  
  859. JW "LRay" Stephens, Squadron Commander; Lobo Solo Squadron
  860. EPP Technician, Primary Color Systems, Inc., Irvine, CA
  861. ...
  862. ICQ# 20564775   "mean people suck"
  863.  
  864. ------------------------------
  865.  
  866. End of hist_text-digest V1 #203
  867. *******************************
  868.  
  869. -
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