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hist_text-digest       Friday, December 11 1998       Volume 01 : Number 188




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Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 23:10:33 -0600
From: "Philip C. Rogers, Jr." <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Horn

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Thomas W. Roberts wrote:

> Okay, who would be so kind as to advise me on an appropriate technique
> to bring
> the lustre on a buffalo powder horn.  I've rubbed it all the way up to
> 1800 grit and
> it's slicker than elk snot, but still quite dull.  Also, I'm looking for
> an appropriate
> stain to darken a maple butt plug.   I've got a lot of hours in this
> thing and don't
> want to screw it up by using the wrong method or material.  So far, it's
> only horn,
> wood, beeswax (as a sealer where plug and horn meet), and lot's of elbow
> grease.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Tom

Along those same lines, could someone point me to someone who has the
raw buffalo horns for sale??

Phil Rogers
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Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 00:38:55 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fabrics 2

In a message dated 98-12-09 10:59:11 EST, you write:

<<  As I am thinking about it, nails were
 hand forged by a blacksmithùwould that be correct?  Please let me know.
 Thanks. >>

Blacksmiths made some of the nails, but they were more commonly made by
"nailers".  Many nailers were women & children who made nails for spending
money.  Many home hearths were devised with small forge areas which were fed
with coals from the cook fire & "fanned" with a small bellows.  About the only
special tooling needed for nail production were the "headers" which were
simply moulds or in proper terms, "swages" used to keep the head shape & size
of a specific nail size uniform.  Some nailers got quite creative in
decorating the heads of their nails with the use of smaller hammers & punches.

This info was gleaned from several old issures of ABANA's (Artist-Blacksmith's
Association of North America) magazine: "The Anvil's Ring" & NWBA's (North
West Blacksmith's Association) magazine "Hot Iron News".

NM

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 00:42:58 -0500
From: "Addison Miller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Announcement

Aye... me too....

Addison Miller

- -----Original Message-----
From: Matt Richards <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Wednesday, December 09, 1998 10:24 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Announcement


>Longwalker,
>I'd like to learn more about your hunting pouch patterns....
>
>Matt Richards
>www.braintan.com
>2755 Sinclair Creek Rd
>Eureka MT 59917
>406-889-5532
>
>Use your brains at www.braintan.com for natural tanning
>and leather resources, online articles, reviews, tools, books
>and class schedules.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Jim Colburn <[e-mail]>
>To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
>Date: Tuesday, December 08, 1998 1:08 PM
>Subject: MtMan-List: Announcement
>
>
>>Washtahay-
>> As I discussed about 18 months ago, I have begun making drawings and
>>construction notes on items from my small personal collection of original
>>accoutremounts.  Drawings and notes completed to date include several
>>powder measures, and full size patterns and notes for two different
hunting
>>pouches.
>> Please inquire directly of me for particulars.
>>LongWalker c. du B.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 10:04:48 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: Nail(s) and Thread reuse

In a message dated 12/9/98 9:41:13 PM Pacific Standard Time, [e-mail]
writes:

<< Blacksmiths made some of the nails, but they were more commonly made by
 "nailers".  Many nailers were women & children who made nails for spending
 money.  >>

    What was the cost of the hand made nails as compared to today's manufactured
nails?  I remember that it was common to see people collect and save nails
after pulling them out of old lumber.  Later, in their spare time, people
would straighten the nails by hammering against an anvil or other hard surface
in the hopes to reuse them.  I know that many a nail had seen several
projects.

    After a garment was completely worn out and no longer serviceable, the sewing
thread was oftentimes carefully removed from the seam lines and wound on a
spool for reuse, any fabric which could be selvaged was saved for quilts.  I
do not know if this was because thread was scarce or if it was money that was
in short supply.  Like nails, I imagine sewing thread frequently saw more than
one project.  Odd-color thread was frequently used in home sewn clothing,
often with the use of several different colors to finish the length of a seam
line in order to make use of every scrap of thread.

Best regards,
Andrea Moore

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 08:45:11 +0100
From: Allen Chronister <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: buffalo horn

I agree with those who have suggested some kind of
wax to bring out the luster in buffalo horn.
In my experience no amount of polishing will make
it "shine" (but then I'm pretty impatient, too.)
Floor or furniture wax works, as do such things as
bear grease and neatsfoot.  When I'm making a
buffalo
horn spoon, I use a little bit of vegetable oil.
Allen Chronister

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 11:21:41 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Michael Pierce)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Horn

LOOKS LIKE EVERYONE IS GETTING INTO THE ADVISE PART ON THE BUFFALO HORN
or about a horn :   HOW ABOUT MY TWO CENTS WORTH:

BUFFALO horn is similar to cow horn but seems to have a different texture
and depending on what you want as a finish will depend on how you will
work it---it can have a mat finish or be slick and glossy.  I never use
steel wool on a horn especially if I want a slick finish it will seem to
embed into the horn and is also is messy to work with.  first you must
know that when working horn the grain goes toward the tip and that is the
direction that you should scrape it or polish toward---never in the other
direction since most BUFFALO horns are older and it will seem to lift the
grain up----you can use a piece of glass or a sharp knife to scrape it
just remember the grain direction and always scrape it toward the
tip---you can also carve it using a double cut file and again you file it
toward the tip as much as possible.  you can cut flats on it and grooves
quite easily the flats are cut by fileing cross grain and starting from a
groove at the tip and at the end of the flat.
once you get the shape you want start with 320 paper and sand toward the
tip and never cross grain it will leave marks just like wood which are
hard to get out---next after you have attained a smooth finish and you
have most of your scrape marks off use 600 wet or dry paper and again
sand---and I do use water with the paper because it helps to keep the
paper clean  NOTE:  I DO THIS BEFORE I PLUG THE HORN---

next is the part that most people don't like to do but there is a couple
of secrets that will get you a good seal and fit so that you wont have to
use the wax to get it water tight---take the horn and grind it perfectly
flat on the open end--then go to your scrap wood box and select a 1.00 in
board I usually use pine---set it on your work bench and take a pencil
and set the horn on the board and draw around the horn base as close as
you can---next set the table of your band saw or jig saw off of square by
about 2 or 4 degrees or where the blade is about 87 to 88 degrees this
will cause you to cut one end of the horn plug  smaller than the
other---the blade should be so that the bottom of the board the opposite
of where you have scribed is the smaller side---cut on the line that you
drew on the board so that when you finish cutting out the plug you cannot
see any of the line left  this is your base for the plug---apply either
elmers glue or 2 part epoxy to the edge quite liberally and force into
the base of the horn the plug should go almost flush with the base of the
horn if not grind a few thousands off or file it off.  use the elmers or
the epoxy liberal'y  let set until dry and then go back to the grinder
and grind the wood flush with base of the horn---now--select a fine fancy
piece of wood about 1.00 to 2.00 thick this should be plained or ground
flat on one side.  I then drill a hole in the center of the applied plug
and install a hickory dowel and glue it in place making sure not to leave
any glue on the outer flat surface---I normally use a 3/8 to 7/16
dowel---after the dowel has dried cut it off about  3/8 to 1/2 in from
the flat surface---take the fancy wood and on the flat side  mark it's
center and drill with the same drill that you used for the dowel but hold
your depth at about 5/8 max I also take a file and chamfer the edges of
the dowel slightly----NOTE i DO NOT INSTALL A DOWEL IF I AM GOING TO PUT
IN A BRASS FILLER PLUG IN THE END OF THE HORN---now with your elmers coat
the surface of the fancy wood that you drilled on and press down on the
dowel until the fancy wood is flush and flat with the horn. sometimes you
have to champher the hole in the fancy wood or make it a bit larger to
get the wood to lay flat--- You will be able to shape or carve this to
your hearts desire---NOW back to the plug---go to your local super market
and get some kabob sticks they are usually made of cain and shaped
round---and are of pretty consistent diameter of .110 to .115---these
will be used to pin the plug in place---you can also use brass tacks if
your heart desires but most older horns used the cain plugs and will
polish up quite nice and not come out if pressed in place and also
glued---now drill holes about  3/8 of an inch from the base of the horn
about ever 1 to      1 1/2 inches around the horn apply glue and force
the kabob stick into the holes usually try for a fit that I have to tap
the pins in place and cut them flush with the horn.

    YOU NOW HAVE A HORN THAT SHOULD BE WATER TIGHT--TEST IT BY
BLOWING THRU THE DRILLED END IF YOU WISH---

Finish shaping the plug and the upper end of the horn now sand the horn
again starting with 320 and progressing to 600 paper always sanding with
the grain especially on the horn.  you can progress to 1200 paper if you
wish or and get pink or blue scower bright from the local hardware store
this is equivalent to 3- OOO or 4-OOOO  steel woll
and gives you a good matt surface and almost a polish on the horn.  If
the horn is white or light colored and you wish to age it and make it
look old now is the time to stain it----TO STAIN THE HORN---NOT THE
WOOD---I use a product that i found several years ago called "OLD BONES"
it is made and marketed by "Howard Robinson firearms and Assessories,
Post Office Box 1397, Lawrenceburg , Ky.  40342.  This is a concentrate
so depending on how dark you wish to stain the horn apply accordingly and
let dry--It can be thinned with water  and several coats applied to get
the color you desire.  to stain the wood I use magic maple mystery stain
on maple or any other water base stain on walnut  or other wood that has
been used on the base---I re-sand the plug after staining and apply a
sealer and a finish---NOTE:SCRIMSHAW HORNS ARE DIFFERENT AND THE
FOLLOWING MUST BE DONE.  I DO NOT STAIN A SCRIMSHAW HORN UNTIL AFTER THE
SCRATCHING IS FINISHED

Now you have a finished horn unless you wish a gloss or slick finish that
you will be scrimshawing---If you are going to scrimshaw the horn surface
must be perfectly slick without andy marks or sandpaper marks that can be
seen with a glass---to get this slick surface I normally use fine car
rubbing compound and apply it onto the palm of my hand and start
rubbing---just as the old whalers uses pumice to slick out a whales tooth
so that it could be scratched on---i SIT AND WATCH TV AND RUB THE
HORN---it takes several hrs to get this finish so be patient and you will
appreciate the cost of fine horns---and it takes a lot of elbow grease to
get done---scratch the horn and apply the stain as above since there is
oil in the rubbing compound it will take several coats to get the color
you need sometimes I use the stain straight from the bottle without
deleting it---

finishing off a BUFFALO horn I only use the rubbing compound and a lot of
rubbing--some people will use a buffing wheel with white ruge on it to
get the initial slick and to save some time but I still use the compound
to get my final finish---the buffing wheel speeds up the finishing
process but it also drives oil into the horn and makes it more difficult
to get it to take a stain if you wish to age or antique the
horn---normally BUFFALO horn will not require a stain.

KRAMER SHOULD COME ON LINE AND GIVE SOME EXAMPLES OF FINISH---FOR THE
STAIN YOU CAN USE WHAT EVER YOU FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH I NORMALLY USE A
WATER BASE STAIN ON ALL WOODS EXCEPT MAPLE AND USE THE MAGIC MAPLE ON IT
- ---THE MAGIC MAPLE IS A ACID BASED STAIN AND MUST BE KILLED PRIOR TO
SEALING OR FINISHING---

i WROTE THIS IN HOPES OF NOT GETTING INTO 50 MSG'S REGARDING FINISHING A
HORN---PLEASE FORGIVE ME FOR BEING SO DETAIL AND BEING SO SPECIFIC BUT I
HOPE IT WILL HELP SOME OF YOU OUT THERE WHO ARE DOING YOUR FIRST HORN.
THE HORN MAN FROM OHIO WHO IS ALWAYS AT FRIENDSHIP (WILBORN I BELIEVE IS
HIS NAME OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT)IS THE ONE WHO TAUGHT ME THE ABOVE AND IT
HAS WORKED WELL FOR ME WITH A FEW ADDED METHOLOGIES THAT i HAVE ADDED FOR
MYSELF---WILBORN SELLS HORNS AND KITS ALL OF THE HIGHEST QUALITY

HIS NAME AND ADDRESS IS AS FOLLOWS---
karl wilborn
5073 townsley rd
cedervill, Ohio 45314
phone number 513-766-5415

his prices range from  about $20 for a small horn to about $40.00 for a
large horn and his daughter is a excellent scrimshawer---or he has other
people that scratch for him---the prices above are for plain horns of the
highest quality---you can specify the color and size to him when you
order and he will also match a pair of horns for you if you have a flint
gun---HE HAS ALWAYS GIVEN ME GOOD QUALITY AND SERVICE.  I never have been
disappointed in a order from him--normally there is only a minimum amount
of finish required to get a quality finished horn----

I hope I have been of some service to the list---

     "Hawk"
Michael Pierce
854 Glenfield Dr.
Palm Harbor, florida   34684
1-[phone]     E-MAIL ADDRESS: [e-mail]

On Sat, 03 Oct 1998 09:00:16 -0500 [e-mail] writes:
>Tom,
>   I used a couple of coats of automotive wax on my buffler horn to
>bring
>out a shine and walnut hulls for a brown dye/stain on my plug.  The
>type of
>wax might not be true for the time,  but the stain shure is!
>
>Thomas W. Roberts wrote:
>
>> Okay, who would be so kind as to advise me on an appropriate
>technique
>> to bring
>> the lustre on a buffalo powder horn.  I've rubbed it all the way up
>to
>> 1800 grit and
>> it's slicker than elk snot, but still quite dull.  Also, I'm looking
>for
>> an appropriate
>> stain to darken a maple butt plug.   I've got a lot of hours in this
>> thing and don't
>> want to screw it up by using the wrong method or material.  So far,
>it's
>> only horn,
>> wood, beeswax (as a sealer where plug and horn meet), and lot's of
>elbow
>> grease.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Tom
>
>
>
>
>

___________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 11:41:54 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Michael Pierce)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: buffalo horn

if you use car rubbing compound or pumice mixed with oil it will make
them shine and also adds to the color and life of the horn---just as
saddle soap adds to the life of leather.

      "Hawk"
Michael Pierce
854 Glenfield Dr.
Palm Harbor, florida   34684
1-[phone]     E-MAIL ADDRESS: [e-mail]

On Thu, 10 Dec 1998 08:45:11 +0100 Allen Chronister <[e-mail]>
writes:
>I agree with those who have suggested some kind of
>wax to bring out the luster in buffalo horn.
>In my experience no amount of polishing will make
>it "shine" (but then I'm pretty impatient, too.)
>Floor or furniture wax works, as do such things as
>bear grease and neatsfoot.  When I'm making a
>buffalo
>horn spoon, I use a little bit of vegetable oil.
>Allen Chronister
>
>

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 12:40:11 -0600
From: Glenn Darilek <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Nail(s) and Thread reuse

[e-mail] wrote:
> . . .  I remember that it was common to see people collect and save nails
> after pulling them out of old lumber.

Indeed, early in the westward expansion, people would sometimes burn
down their old houses (particularly the doors that had a lot of nails)
to salvage the nails to take with them westward.  Realizing this waste,
governments enacted laws to discourage this.

Maybe I should look it up first, but I remember there are some claims
that nailer boys could make 200 nails an hour.  Being an amateur
blacksmith, that seems impossible.  Have you ever heard the saying
"Never missed a lick"?  To make that many nails, indeed you couldn't
afford one missapplied hammer blow. And of course they had "too many
irons in the fire."


Iron Burner

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 13:45:00 -0600
From: Jim Colburn <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Horn

Washtahay-
    This is the way I build horns, FWIW.  Most of it is based on examining
original horns and figuring out which, of the tools available, left the
visible tool marks.
    I pick out a good horn to start off with.  Dairy cattle tend to have
better horns-finer grain structure, with a smoother inside.  Beef
cattle-especially range cattle-tend to have coarser horns, with ridges
inside.  They also seem to have more green than I like!
    Once I have selected a horn, i cut off the large end square.  Then I cut
off the tip and drill it.  I use a 3/16" drill for this, then run a home
made tapered reamer in to open the hole to a taper so it is about 1/4" at
the largest.
    If need be, I clean up the horn some with a rasp, file any details I want
to use-like a ring for the strap, then go to scraping.  I use a steel
cabinet scraper, and scrape from the large end towards the tip.
    Once the horn is rough-scraped, I stick the large end in boiling water til
it softens.  I press in a tapered wood form (finished with beeswax) to make
the end circular, and let the horn cool.  My tapered forms are marked off
with a series of rings, each ring indicating a 1/4" increase in diameter.
While the horn is cooling, I use a lathe to turn out a plug.  The plug
should taper slightly-about 3/16" in diameter over an inch-where it fits
into the horn.  The outside I usually copy off various originals shown in
books or in museums.  I also hollow the inside of the plug to make it
lighter, having seen this on several original plugs.
    When the plug is turned, I set the horn in an oven for about 15 minutes at
150 degrees F.  This melts the wax on the form, so it will release easily.
I pull the form and insert the plug.  Usually I wind up having to fit the
plug a bit.
    When the plug is in place, I drill and pin like Hawk mentioned.  I scrape
the horn lightly to remove any marks left from the earlier work, then buff
it by hand with jeweler's rouge on a leather belt.  Then I buff it with
beeswax on a piece of canvas or denim.
    I make the spout plug out of hardwood, usually hickory, osage, or ash.
The plug portion should taper slightly-makes it a lot easier to pull out of
the horn.  Again, I usually turn these on the lathe.
    I finish the wood with whatever comes handy-really!  The plug the horn I
use most of the time is pine, finished with multiple coats of beeswax
melted in.  (Do I need to say you probably shouldn't have fire around a
horn filled with powder?)  I attach the strap by whatever method seems
appropriate-often I use a staple made of brass wire (brazing rod)-at the
large end.  Normally I just tie the strap around the small end.  Sometimes
I carefully drill holes and add a staple there also.
    Most of the time when I make a horn, I have an illustration of an original
in front of me.  I copy the construction techniques, shapes, etc from this.

    Does this sound like production work?  To some extent it is-period
production techniques adapted for modern one-off work.  I tend to copy
horns made "for the trade" rather than the one-off custom horns.  Back
then, techniques were used by horn makers to produce horns that would sell
at the going price.  I've seen records that indicate a typical retail price
of fifty to seventy-five cents per horn in the years 1800-1840.  This at a
time when a Hawken rifle sold for $20.  (All prices St. Louis)
    By the HBC at least, horns were of standardized sizes as well.
    In modern terms, an equivalent copy of that $20 Hawken might cost
$1000-$1500.  That fifty cent trade horn would sell for $25 to $37.50.
There aren't a lot of decent copies of trade horns made today in that price
range.  Don't get me wrong here-there are good horns available in that
price range, but for some reason production horn makers today don't seem to
copy trade horns.
    Using the Track of The Wolf catalog (because I have it handy) the closest
to the horn I am describing costs about $48.  I can't help but wonder what
modern mass-production would price a trade horn at....
LongWalker c. du B.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 16:46:42 -0800
From: "Thomas W. Roberts" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Horn

Well, that's what I like about this forum.  I ask for advice and many
experienced folks offer me the benefit of their wisdom. I now have
several options from which to choose.  Although I did succumb to modern
tools in the interest of finishing in this lifetime, I am comitted to
avoiding modern materials for the construction or for the finish so the
modern polishes are out. Since the horn is already constructed, it will
also be necessary to carefully apply the stain to only the wood and
avoid polishing the horn until the wood has been stained.  If I ever do
this again, I will certainly take advantage of the suggestion to use
pre-made skewers for the butt plug retention pins instead of carving
them from scratch.   One other departure I made from the commonly
suggested construction technique was to avoid the boiling to force the
horn round.  Instead, I shaped the butt plug to match the natural,
slightly oval, shape of the horn.  It was a bit of a challenge but it
turned out quite well and I think it was worth the effort.  Thank you
all for your quick and willing advice.  Hopefully, this thing will be
pourin' powder real soon!

Tom

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 18:45:17 -0600
From: "yellow rose/pendleton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Horn

Dennis,
  I got the recipe for this stain from the back of a old Dixie catalog. It
works great, but it will raise the grain if the piece has not been properly
whiskered. It produces a real nice reddish brown color when followed up
with linseed oil. The color varies with the amount of tobacco and the brand
used in the ammonia.
Pendleton

- ----------
> From: Dennis Miles <[e-mail]>
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Horn
> Date: Wednesday, December 09, 1998 10:09 PM
>
> Larry,
>  Ammonia?? I'll be damned..I have alwys just used the juice outta my can
I
> keep in the shop for the purpose, then mix it with warm linseed...I will
> have to try the ammonia..What does it do? Make it richer?? Deeper??
> Dennis
>
>    "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
>           DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
>   Period Knives & Iron Accouterments
>     http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1
> -----Original Message-----
> From: yellow rose/pendleton <[e-mail]>
> To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
> Date: Wednesday, December 09, 1998 11:12 PM
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Horn
>
>
> >I forgot to mention the stain on the butt plug. I don't know if I would
use
> >a nitric acid stain on a horn, but I'll tell you what will work real
nice.
> >Take a plug of chewing tobacco and tear it up into a pint jar. Then fill
> >the jar with household ammonia. Put a lid on it and forget about it for
a
> >couple of weeks. This makes a fine stain for maple.
> >Pendleton
> >
> >--
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 19:01:31 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Dennis Miles)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Horn

Thanks.. I'll try it.. Hell, I love checking out things new...
Wonder how it will work on Red Oak??
D
   "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
          DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
  Period Knives & Iron Accouterments
    http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1
- -----Original Message-----
From: yellow rose/pendleton <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Thursday, December 10, 1998 7:13 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Horn


>Dennis,
>  I got the recipe for this stain from the back of a old Dixie catalog. It
>works great, but it will raise the grain if the piece has not been properly
>whiskered. It produces a real nice reddish brown color when followed up
>with linseed oil. The color varies with the amount of tobacco and the brand
>used in the ammonia.
>Pendleton
>
>----------
>> From: Dennis Miles <[e-mail]>
>> To: [e-mail]
>> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Horn
>> Date: Wednesday, December 09, 1998 10:09 PM
>>
>> Larry,
>>  Ammonia?? I'll be damned..I have alwys just used the juice outta my can
>I
>> keep in the shop for the purpose, then mix it with warm linseed...I will
>> have to try the ammonia..What does it do? Make it richer?? Deeper??
>> Dennis
>>
>>    "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
>>           DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
>>   Period Knives & Iron Accouterments
>>     http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: yellow rose/pendleton <[e-mail]>
>> To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
>> Date: Wednesday, December 09, 1998 11:12 PM
>> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Horn
>>
>>
>> >I forgot to mention the stain on the butt plug. I don't know if I would
>use
>> >a nitric acid stain on a horn, but I'll tell you what will work real
>nice.
>> >Take a plug of chewing tobacco and tear it up into a pint jar. Then fill
>> >the jar with household ammonia. Put a lid on it and forget about it for
>a
>> >couple of weeks. This makes a fine stain for maple.
>> >Pendleton
>> >
>> >--
>>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 23:19:02 -0800
From: "Thomas W. Roberts" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Horn

Phil,

I got my buffalo horns from Moscow Hide & Fur in Idaho.  Their website address
is:
http//www.hideandfur.com/.  They are priced by size and I thought the price
was very reasonable.   When I first got them they looked pretty rough but they
have turned out lookin'
real good.

Tom

Philip C. Rogers, Jr. wrote:

> Along those same lines, could someone point me to someone who has the
> raw buffalo horns for sale??
>
> Phil Rogers
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 03:18:00 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Nail(s) and Thread reuse

In a message dated 98-12-10 10:11:40 EST, you write:

<< What was the cost of the hand made nails as compared to today's
manufactured
 nails?

Unfortunately, I didn't find any references to selling prices for nails.  A
calculated guess would be a few cents per pound, that still reflects in our
present day nail sizes like "6d" = 6 cents/lb.  As Long Walker points out in
his message about period powderhorns, this was when a 50 cent trade horn was
available.  Today, according to his calculations that horn would sell for $25
- - $37.50, so the 6d nails would be roughly $3 - $5/lb by today's comparison.
Also we must consider what the wages were in those days.  $1/day was good
money then, so 8lbs of  6d nails would be almost 1/2 day's pay.  Seems I
remember seeing somewhere bread cost about 2 cents/loaf about this time.  With
this in mind, nails were expensive.

< I remember that it was common to see people collect and save nails
 after pulling them out of old lumber.   >>

I remember doing exactly that!  While Dad bought new nails for new
construction, almost all the normal repairs around the farm were done with
"recycled" nails.  Our "kid projects" were done with the recycled nails too
unless we wanted a session with Dad out behind the barn!  Woe be unto those
who used Dad's new nails in a tree house!  The modern "throw away mentality"
did not exist back then.  Iron was hard to come by in any form which was a
boon to all blacksmiths because they were able to take almost any iron object
that wasn't used & turn it into something that was.  Like you point out, worn
clothing was patched until it just wouldn't hold any more patches, then turned
into quilts.  You didn't mention the "rag rugs" we made for our floors or were
used for "stuffing" for stuffed animal toys when such luxuries were made, or
used as hand & dish towels, or bandages, or -----.  Worn out clothing was far
from being useless!  I didn't know you could actualy buy little pieces of
cloth JUST for cleaning guns until I was well into my teens!  I grew up with
the mentality that John Cramer uses as a tag line: "wear it out, use it up, or
do without" -- I know I didn't get that right, but we've all seen it numerous
times in his messages.  This is the same mentality that our forefathers had.

NM

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 06:46:28 -0600
From: "Glenn Darilek" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Nail(s) and Thread reuse

- -----Original Message-----
From: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>


>In a message dated 98-12-10 10:11:40 EST, you write:
>
><< What was the cost of the hand made nails as compared to today's
>manufactured
> nails?
>
>Unfortunately, I didn't find any references to selling prices for nails.  A
>calculated guess would be a few cents per pound, that still reflects in our
>present day nail sizes like "6d" = 6 cents/lb.

That's 6d = 6 cents per hundred

Iron Burner

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 23:48:18 +1100 (EST)
From: Sam Keller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Announcement

I would also be interested in your patterns.

Y.M.U.S.
Sleeping Bear



- ---Jim Colburn <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
> Washtahay-
>     As I discussed about 18 months ago, I have begun making drawings and
> construction notes on items from my small personal collection of
original
> accoutremounts.  Drawings and notes completed to date include several
> powder measures, and full size patterns and notes for two different
hunting
> pouches.
>     Please inquire directly of me for particulars.
> LongWalker c. du B.
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 10:45:49 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Nails, Reuse, and Powder Horn

    Thank you for the pricing information of old nails, I figured they must have
been expensive judging by the royal treatment.  I grew up in a very poor
neighborhood and it was interesting to observe the innovative things people
used to do to make things go farther and make due.  The nails were pulled and
straightened, as perviously mentioned, but the old lumber was stacked for
reuse too.  Any type of wire was carefully wound and stored.

    Regarding reuse of worn clothing--as many of you are saying, times change and
the old ways make way for new attitudes.  Patches used to be a common sight
and it was not considered a disgrace at all to wear neatly patched clothing.
In fact, mothers and wives took considerable pride in their ability to turn
out a fine looking patch that performed well.  In fact, a lot of folks knew
how to sew a good patch.

    I have watched with interest the recent powder horn discussion.  I wonder if
someone would mind telling me who invented the powder horn and the reasoning
behind the selection of materials?  I remember going with my father to feed
silage and I noticed many of the cattle with broken horns.  Was this a problem
with powder horns--why or why not?

    Could someone please tell me a source where I can order the Dixie Gun Works
catalog and the Amazon Dry Goods catalog?  Thank you.

Very best regards,
Andrea Moore



------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 10:41:36 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Michael Pierce)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Horn

forgot to note in my input that i like to use ebony fiddle ajusters for
plugs they work great -seal good and are slightly tapered and do not
shrink or swell---have seen several originals that used the same thing so
followed along that line----
      "Hawk"
Michael Pierce
854 Glenfield Dr.
Palm Harbor, florida   34684
1-[phone]     E-MAIL ADDRESS: [e-mail]

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 10:17:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Philip Huvler <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Nail(s) and Thread reuse

At 06:46 AM 12/11/98 -0600, you wrote:
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
>
>
>>In a message dated 98-12-10 10:11:40 EST, you write:
>>
>><< What was the cost of the hand made nails as compared to today's
>>manufactured
>> nails?
>>
>>Unfortunately, I didn't find any references to selling prices for nails.  A
>>calculated guess would be a few cents per pound, that still reflects in our
>>present day nail sizes like "6d" = 6 cents/lb.
>
>That's 6d = 6 cents per hundred
>
>Iron Burner
>
>Rag rugs were mentioned as being a way to recycle cloth various articles
that I have read showed they were for the beds not the floor even though
they were called rag rugs      interesting thought
>                                           Dummy  'still alive just been mute;)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 11:48:28 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Rag Rugs (floor & bed)

In a message dated 12/11/98 8:20:55 AM Pacific Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< Rag rugs were mentioned as being a way to recycle cloth various articles
 that I have read showed they were for the beds not the floor even though
 they were called rag rugs      interesting thought            >>

    Interesting to me is rag rugs for the bed!  Were they used for blankets and
made similiar to rugs for the floor: tearing strips of cloth goods, braiding
and then whipping the edges to form a coil?  If this is the case, the bed rugs
would have been extremely heavy and thick.  Or were they perhaps instead used
as a matress pad or incorporated into the matress itself, or other?  I feel
like I am missing something really obvious here and would like to hear more
about bed rugs, how they were made, intended purpose, how they differed from
their cousin the braided floor rug, etc.

Best regards,
Andrea Moore



------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 10:51:22 -0600
From: Jim Colburn <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Nails, Reuse, and Powder Horn

Washtahay-
At 10:45 AM 12/11/98 EST, you wrote:
>    Thank you for the pricing information of old nails, I figured they must have
>been expensive judging by the royal treatment.  I grew up in a very poor
>neighborhood and it was interesting to observe the innovative things people
>used to do to make things go farther and make due.  The nails were pulled and
>straightened, as perviously mentioned, but the old lumber was stacked for
>reuse too.  Any type of wire was carefully wound and stored.
    Old habits die hard, some of us still do that.  The first step in building
a project is to conceive it, the second is to adapt it to the materials
available or on hand.

>    I have watched with interest the recent powder horn discussion.  I wonder if
>someone would mind telling me who invented the powder horn and the reasoning
>behind the selection of materials?
    good question, open to a lot of debate.  The earliest use of horns for
powder that I have seen dated is ca. mid 1500s.  There is a drawing of an
artilleryman with a horn on the deck.  Probably in use much prior to that.
Horns have been used for a long time to keep things dry.
    It might help you to think of horn as the pre-industrial version of
plastic.  Horn is, to some extent, thermoplastic.  It can be easily shaped
with hand tools, heated and formed, and lasts a fairly long time.  It is
fairly water-resistant.

> I remember going with my father to feed
>silage and I noticed many of the cattle with broken horns.  Was this a
problem
>with powder horns--why or why not?
    Horns broke-witness the number of original horns with repairs.  When
scraped thin, it can be brittle.  It has a tendency to get brittle in
extreme cold as well-both of the horns I have broken were cracked when hit
or bumped on rock when the ambient temperature was around -20 F.
>
>    Could someone please tell me a source where I can order the Dixie Gun Works
>catalog
    Dixie-1-800-238-6785

>and the Amazon Dry Goods catalog
    Can't help ya there.
LongWalker c. du B.

------------------------------

End of hist_text-digest V1 #188
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