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1998-09-19
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From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest)
To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #140
Reply-To: hist_text
Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
hist_text-digest Saturday, September 19 1998 Volume 01 : Number 140
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 19:30:00 -0700
From: "Terry Landis" <landis1@gte.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: Virginia style
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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would a Virginia style rifle be period correct during the fur trade era? if
not then when would that style date to?
Terry
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<DIV><SPAN class=3D800572102-18091998><FONT color=3D#000000 =
face=3D"Bookman Old Style"=20
size=3D5>would a Virginia style rifle be period correct during the fur =
trade era?=20
if not then when would that style date to?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D800572102-18091998><FONT color=3D#000000 =
face=3D"Bookman Old Style"=20
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p; =20
Terry</FONT></SPAN></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:03:58 -0700
From: Chris Sega <chrissega1@powernet.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Charcloth..
Sam Keller wrote:
> I totally agree, and this goes with what I am trying to get across. Who=
would have wanted to "burn" cloth better suited for clothing?
>
> We know that the brigades brought cloth for the making of shirts etc.& =
thousands of yards of canvas went into the west with the
> brigades during the fur trade and hence scrap (small pieces not large e=
nough for shirts or other useful items ) was produced. I dont
> think they discarded it.
>
>
>
> But I have a major
> objection to using cloth as char. Can you imagine the amount of cloth y=
ou
> would have to carry for a winters fire starting. 4 square inches (2" x =
2")
> makes a piece of char large enough to start a fire. 3 fires a day,
> 7 days a week, requires 84 square inches of cloth. A year spent in the
> wilderness will require 3 =BD square yards of cloth, an extravegent (si=
c)
> expense.
The majority of the mountain men were not free trappers, and even the fre=
e trappers did not travel alone as a rule. Men alone in the
mountains died more often than not. When 6 men share a fire it takes onl=
y 1 piece of char to light it. I also doubt that anyone needs 3
fires a day. Sure wood was used but I think charred cloth was commonly us=
ed and carried. Ever tried to light a fire in a snow storm with
a chunk of charred pine?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 09:38:54 EDT
From: LODGEPOLE@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Virginia style
In a message dated 9/17/98 Terry writes:
<< would a Virginia style rifle be period correct during the fur trade era? if
not then when would that style date to? >>
Sure Terry, I should think many a young man headed fer them shinnin'
mountains with his Pap's or possibly his Grandpap's old gun. Someone more
knowledgeable could tell you better, but I believe this style of gun was still
being made into the early 1800s anyway. Might have been a more prevalent
style earlier on in the western fur trade than later on.
Longshot
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 11:17:58 -0400
From: "Addison Miller" <sean@naplesnet.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Virginia style
When I was at the MFT in Nebraska, there were many of Paps and Grandpaps old
Kentucky rifles there. Some had been cut a little shorter in the barrel,
but they were still Caintucks... They dated them from about 1790 to 1830
era....
Addison Miller
- -----Original Message-----
From: LODGEPOLE@aol.com <LODGEPOLE@aol.com>
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Date: Friday, September 18, 1998 10:14 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Virginia style
>In a message dated 9/17/98 Terry writes:
>
><< would a Virginia style rifle be period correct during the fur trade era?
if
> not then when would that style date to? >>
>
> Sure Terry, I should think many a young man headed fer them shinnin'
>mountains with his Pap's or possibly his Grandpap's old gun. Someone more
>knowledgeable could tell you better, but I believe this style of gun was
still
>being made into the early 1800s anyway. Might have been a more prevalent
>style earlier on in the western fur trade than later on.
>
> Longshot
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 09:23:40 -0600 (CST)
From: mxhbc@TTACS.TTU.EDU (Henry B. Crawford)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Virginia style
>In a message dated 9/17/98 Terry writes:
>
><< would a Virginia style rifle be period correct during the fur trade era? if
> not then when would that style date to? >>
What's a Virginia-style rifle?
*****************************************
Henry B. Crawford Curator of History
mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Museum of Texas Tech University
806/742-2442 Box 43191
FAX 742-1136 Lubbock, TX 79409-3191
WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
****** Living History . . . Because it's there! *******
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 13:55:40 -0500
From: Jeff Powers <kestrel@ticon.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Charcloth..
>Birch bark burns like tissue even without charing. I haven't tried
>it but I bet it would really work good chared. Birch bark even
>burns like paper wet.
Shhhhhhh. Now your giving away an old family secret!
"They make no scruple to break wind publickly" Fr.Louis Hennepin 1698
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 01:49:26 -0600
From: Wayne Mumford <ffw@in-tch.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: tipi's
What's the price range for a good durable tipi? Is there anyone in NW
Montana that makes a good one?
Thanks,
Wayne
- --
Frontier Filmworks
Still Photography by Wayne Mumford
Locations-Prints-Stock Images
The Lewis & Clark Trail
http://gallery.in-tch.com/~ffw/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 15:43:49 EDT
From: ThisOldFox@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Virginia style
In a message dated 98-09-18 13:26:06 EDT, you write:
> When I was at the MFT in Nebraska, there were many of Paps and Grandpaps >
old Kentucky rifles there.
Chas. Hanson, in his book on the Hawken Rifle, documents the fact that the
most commonly used rifle during the Western Fur Trade was the "Lancaster"
rifle. These, of course were made by PA. gunsmiths of the time.
OldFox
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 18:45:00 -0700
From: Frank <MedicineBear@Hawken54.sparks.nv.us>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Virginia style
HBC,
Here's one place to see what one builder is calling a "Virginia Rifle".
Bet it's what's being reffered to.
http://www.avsia.com/tvm/
Medicine Bear
> What's a Virginia-style rifle?
>
> *****************************************
> Henry B. Crawford Curator of History
> mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Museum of Texas Tech University
> 806/742-2442 Box 43191
> FAX 742-1136 Lubbock, TX 79409-3191
> WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
> ****** Living History . . . Because it's there! *******
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 21:11:50 -0400
From: Cynthia R Pierce <CPierce@InfoAve.Net>
Subject: MtMan-List: Tipts
Wayne, Blue Star Tipis 300 West Main Missoula,Montana 59802
(406)728-1738 Have had one of there tipis for over 15 years and used in
all kinds of weather . For several years set up at least once a month.
Getting pretty worn out now but when I buy again will be from them.
Rick Pierce
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 18:25:40 EDT
From: RR1LA@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Charcloth..
thanks NM, you said more than a mouthful. while reading the posts on wasting
cotton, etc, i was thinking that during my last rendevous, i only started a
fire with flint, steel and charcloth ONE TIME, and that was the very first
evening. thereafter, its a matter of proper 'banking', then the use of tinder
and a hollow reed, and voila', fire. if necessary, coals from the main pit are
moved to a brazier for small grill cooking; on and under a dutch oven for
baking; in the evening, a shovelful of hot coals in the lodge stove to take
the chill off, and for those freezing nights, throwing wood on those hot coals
and using the blow tube will get the stove ablaze in no time. there you go...
one piece of 1x1 charcloth for cooking and heat for 9 days. PJ
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 17:53:53 -0400
From: "Addison Miller" <sean@naplesnet.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tipi's
Not in Montana, but Panther makes several sizes.... I have seen them ar
Ronnys before and they seem to be of good quality. I have 3 Panter tents
(giant wedge, 10x10 wall, and a 12x14 wall), and never had a leak, or a
problem... Their prices for a 12' - 24' in Sunforger, preshrunk... is $401
to $1036. This includes Tipi, Cover, Liner, and door... Their phone number
is : 1-800-487-2684. Tellthem you want to buy a tipi, and want a catalog...
Addison Miller
- -----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Mumford <ffw@in-tch.com>
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Date: Friday, September 18, 1998 4:54 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: tipi's
>What's the price range for a good durable tipi? Is there anyone in NW
>Montana that makes a good one?
>
>Thanks,
>Wayne
>--
>Frontier Filmworks
>Still Photography by Wayne Mumford
>Locations-Prints-Stock Images
>The Lewis & Clark Trail
>http://gallery.in-tch.com/~ffw/
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 21:15:56 -0500
From: "yellow rose/pendleton" <yrrw@cyberramp.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Virginia style
Henry and Frank,
What's the joke ? There is a Virginia Rifle style isn't there? C'mon guys.
Or is this the product of a well known gunmaker?
Pendleton---------
> From: Frank <MedicineBear@Hawken54.sparks.nv.us>
> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Virginia style
> Date: Friday, September 18, 1998 8:45 PM
>
> HBC,
>
> Here's one place to see what one builder is calling a "Virginia Rifle".
> Bet it's what's being reffered to.
>
> http://www.avsia.com/tvm/
>
> Medicine Bear
>
> > What's a Virginia-style rifle?
> >
> > *****************************************
> > Henry B. Crawford Curator of History
> > mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Museum of Texas Tech University
> > 806/742-2442 Box 43191
> > FAX 742-1136 Lubbock, TX 79409-3191
> > WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
> > ****** Living History . . . Because it's there! *******
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 12:00:48 -0600
From: Wayne Mumford <ffw@in-tch.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Virginia style
What was considered the normal caliber for the "Virginia rifle" during
it's day? What would have been a standard rifle for the Mississippi
frontier circa. 1785-1805? Just curious as to what one might expect the
members of the Lewis and Clark expedition to carry that were enlisted
specifically for the expedition and not pulled from the military posts?
Wayne
- --
Frontier Filmworks
Still Photography by Wayne Mumford
Locations-Prints-Stock Images
The Lewis & Clark Trail
http://gallery.in-tch.com/~ffw/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 23:03:15 -0700
From: Frank <MedicineBear@Hawken54.sparks.nv.us>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Virginia style
Pendleton,
I don't know if Henry was kidding or not. I'm really not familiar with too
many of the earlier guns although I must admit I'm looking at a "Southern
Rifle" by TVM for myself and wondering if it would fit in my persona. Since
mountain men had to come from the east, I guess anything they brought with
them would be considered correct. However, a rifle of small caliber wouldn't
due for long out west and would I imagine be replaced as soon as possible.
I'm going to due some reading before I go out and spend any beaver...them
plews is gettin' mighty dear!
MB
yellow rose/pendleton wrote:
> Henry and Frank,
> What's the joke ? There is a Virginia Rifle style isn't there? C'mon guys.
> Or is this the product of a well known gunmaker?
> Pendleton---------
> > From: Frank <MedicineBear@Hawken54.sparks.nv.us>
> > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
> > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Virginia style
> > Date: Friday, September 18, 1998 8:45 PM
> >
> > HBC,
> >
> > Here's one place to see what one builder is calling a "Virginia Rifle".
> > Bet it's what's being reffered to.
> >
> > http://www.avsia.com/tvm/
> >
> > Medicine Bear
> >
> > > What's a Virginia-style rifle?
> > >
> > > *****************************************
> > > Henry B. Crawford Curator of History
> > > mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Museum of Texas Tech University
> > > 806/742-2442 Box 43191
> > > FAX 742-1136 Lubbock, TX 79409-3191
> > > WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
> > > ****** Living History . . . Because it's there! *******
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 00:28:47 -0500
From: "Ken" <rebelfreehold@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Virginia style
> Henry and Frank,
> What's the joke ? There is a Virginia Rifle style isn't there? C'mon
guys.
> Or is this the product of a well known gunmaker?
> Pendleton---------
YES THERE IS A VIRGINIA RIFLE!!
Ken YellowFeather
> > From: Frank <MedicineBear@Hawken54.sparks.nv.us>
> > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
> > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Virginia style
> > Date: Friday, September 18, 1998 8:45 PM
> >
> > HBC,
> >
> > Here's one place to see what one builder is calling a "Virginia Rifle".
> > Bet it's what's being reffered to.
> >
> > http://www.avsia.com/tvm/
> >
> > Medicine Bear
> >
> > > What's a Virginia-style rifle?
> > >
> > > *****************************************
> > > Henry B. Crawford Curator of History
> > > mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Museum of Texas Tech University
> > > 806/742-2442 Box 43191
> > > FAX 742-1136 Lubbock, TX 79409-3191
> > > WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
> > > ****** Living History . . . Because it's there! *******
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 98 03:00:53 PDT
From: "Jerrys" <Jerrys@starcomm.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: fur trappers
I am trying to find the defination of the word PINCHON. It was used in =
an article in the outdoor oklahoman some time ago. Taken form a book by =
Grant Foreman. It said 97 fox & PINCHON. Was it some kind of animal? =
Amy information on this subject would be GREATLY appreceited. Thank you =
very much Jerrys@starcomm.net.
- --
IMail Server for Windows NT. Evaluation version.
Copyright (c) 1995-98 Ipswitch, Inc. http://www.ipswitch.com/
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 08:48:05 EDT
From: MIA3WOLVES@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tipi's
I concur, Panther is one of the best. I have a wedge, tipi and one poler from
Panther. Their canvas and craftmanship are top quality and they stand behind
their product. Good folks to deal with.
Red Hawk
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 08:41:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: Josh Swinehart <totwolf@yahoo.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: Holcomb Valley
Can anyone tell me what the dates for the Holcomb
Valley Rendezvous are?
TIA
- -Totwolf
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 18:06:02 EDT
From: RR1LA@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Holcomb Valley
Holcomb Valley was 2 weeks ago. Plan on about the same time for next year. PJ
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 18:04:09 EDT
From: RR1LA@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Virginia style
Medicine Bear, I have been using a .54 calibre TVM 'poor-boy' for a number of
years, and can tell you that it has proven its worth many times over. It has
won me more prizes than I can remember, and is reliable, accurate, and
servicable. In ++curly Maple and brass hardware, it still makes my heart pound
with pride, especially when it is admired by anyone that sees / holds it. In
fact, I loved it sooooo much so that I finally had to buy a matching Kentucky
pistol, and it, too, is a joy to behold. Jack Garner and his crew produce a
damn fine gun, and back up their products with great service. From what I have
been told, by those much more knowledgable than I, for the late 1700's and
beyond, it is correct for all areas of the country. Those hard earned plews
are well spent with TVM. I have no affiliation with them, just love their
products. PJ
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 11:38:52 -0500
From: "K. Carpenter" <kcarpenter@bigbear.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Holcomb Valley
Hi Josh,
I live in the Big Bear Valley and was just talking to some men who went
to the rendezvous. It was the week prior to Labor day. I believe the
last day was Labor Day, or the Sunday before it. It is always held the
week leading up to Labor Day every year, for future reference. The
mountain man club up here is holding one this coming weekend in Holcolmb
valley, if you would like to come.
Suzy Carpenter
Josh Swinehart wrote:
> Can anyone tell me what the dates for the Holcomb
> Valley Rendezvous are?
> TIA
> -Totwolf
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________
> DO YOU YAHOO!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 17:12:27 GMT
From: rparker7@ix.netcom.com (Roy Parker)
Subject: MtMan-List: tipi's
Over the last 12 years I've had a 14 ft Nomadics, an 18 ft Blue Star,
and an 18 ft Panther. All were very good or better. The Panther is
new, and was set up for the first time at this year's SouthWestern.
Handled the rain and cold just fine.
Roy Parker, Buckskinner, Brewer, Blacksmith and other "B"'s, including =
"BS".
1999 SW Rendezvous info available at http://www.sat.net/~robenhaus
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 17:13:41 -0700
From: Frank <MedicineBear@Hawken54.sparks.nv.us>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Virginia style
PJ,
Thanks for the info. It's kinda scarry buying through the mail. From what I can
see and read, that "Southern Rifle" may just be my next purchase. I shor duz need
me a flinter! .54 would truely shine!
MB
RR1LA@aol.com wrote:
> Medicine Bear, I have been using a .54 calibre TVM 'poor-boy' for a number of
> years, and can tell you that it has proven its worth many times over.
<snip>
------------------------------
End of hist_text-digest V1 #140
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