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Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 20:41:52 -0600 (MDT)
From: beaverboy@sofast.net
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: footwear
"Keeping in mind that virtually all original participants in the RMFT era
> were mounted it's understandable how they got by so handily in the
various soft sole moccasin styles".
Are the hundreds if not thousands of men that came up the Missouri and
it's tributaries on boats of several styles not a part of the RMFT? Am
I missing something or did I misread that? Are the trappers of the
Upper Missouri not considered a part of the RMFT? Does the RMFT stand
for "Rocky Mountain Fur Trade" or am I mistaken or just ignorant? Are
Upper Missouri and other river trappers considered a different era than
the Rocky Mountain guys? What do you mean by the RMFT, please define.
Were'nt most of the "original" men of the RMFT era almost exclusively
boat men and later having to wander off of the main rivers on horseback
in search of untrapped resourses. And aren't half of the rivers they
trapped just as rocky as the Rockies?
Capt. please set me straight.
bb
> Keith,
>
> Welcome to the list. I'm sure others will have some good info/offerings
> for you but I'd like to put my spin on this subject of proper moc's.
>
> You ask about "shoe packs" and whether they are proper for the Rocky Mt.
> Fur Trade era? The short answer is "probably not" since as I recall they
> are patterned off one pair found back east in a dig site. But as you have
> found, the other options aren't suitable for foot travel in the "Rockies".
> Keeping in mind that virtually all original participants in the RMFT era
> were mounted it's understandable how they got by so handily in the various
> soft sole moccasin styles. And there were many. Eastern Center Seam with
> and without a vamp. Side seam, tall and low cut. And many others. There
> are rawhide soled moc patterns that might have seen use in the American
> West but they are a desert moc where moisture isn't much of a concern. The
> point is that I believe folks made what they were familiar with. And that
> covers a lot of styles.
>
> Your not going to see many people in center seam shoe packs like Mark
> favors but I personally do not see anything wrong with using them. That is
> "how you were taught" to make them by those you grew up with from wherever
> back east you came from and everyone except the native Indians came from
> back east. It would be expected that in time you would likely adopt the
> contemporary favorites or that might be the only style you could get the
> local Indian ladies to turn out for you or............... but at the
> moment your wearing what you know how to make and that is shoe packs.
>
> Enough justification for ya? <G>
>
> YMOS
> Capt. Lahti'
>
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Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 20:43:19 -0600
From: "tom" <thsb@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: footwear
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Back when I started playing mountain man. One of the most troubling things to me, was the thought of walking around the wild country in soft soled un supportive mocs. the sharp rocks, prickly pear and other instant reminders of one's mortality. Seemed insurmountable with such seemingly flimsy footwear. I quickly found out, wearing soft soled mocs aint that bad..................... Not that a sharp rock or a prickly pear spine doesn't find it's unwelcome way in to my city feet once in a while. my feet have toughened in the years since i started wearing them. you quickly learn where and what you do not put your feet in or on. so much so, that it is done instinctively and without thinking.
as for winter time, i wear the same kind of mocs only they are lined with fur and wool both.
as a side note, i think if you have health issues like diabetes. you should guard you feet with your life and authenticity certainly should take a back seat to your health.
Tom, AMM#1834
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Keith Mitchell
To: hist_text@xmission.com
Sent: 7/30/2004 12:47:21 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: footwear
Hello to camp
I'm new to this sport and new to this page my name is Keith Mitchell I =
=3D
run my own tannery and do all types of skins even period correct stuff I =
=3D
also am a butcher by trade I am working on my persona and after a few =
=3D
treks I want to change my footwear the center and side seams just are to =
=3D
soft and after hiking in the rocky mts of Utah my feet are a bit sore I =
=3D
was reading mark bakers book and like the shoe pack idea but was =3D
wondering if it was period for the rocky mtn fur trade my persona is =3D
that of a company trapper so after reading all I could from the 8 books =
=3D
of buckskining and several other books I have yet to come up with what I =
=3D
feel will be right so I am taking advice from mark bakers book and =3D
asking the trial worn experts for help so my pilgrims journey will be a =
=3D
bit faster=3D20
thank you=3D20
Keith=3D20
p.s. I also run traps all winter and if there is anything I can offer in =
=3D
the way of help=3D20
I will do my best
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<DIV>Back when I started playing mountain man. One of the most troubling things to me, was the thought of walking around the wild country in soft soled un supportive mocs. the sharp rocks, prickly pear and other instant reminders of one's mortality. Seemed insurmountable with such seemingly flimsy footwear. I quickly found out, wearing soft soled mocs aint that bad..................... Not that a sharp rock or a prickly pear spine doesn't find it's unwelcome way in to my city feet once in a while. my feet have toughened in the years since i started wearing them. you quickly learn where and what you do not put your feet in or on. so much so, that it is done instinctively and without thinking. </DIV>
<DIV>as for winter time, i wear the same kind of mocs only they are lined with fur and wool both.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>as a side note, i think if you have health issues like diabetes. you should guard you feet with your life and authenticity certainly should take a back seat to your health. </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><BR>Hello to camp<BR><BR>I'm new to this sport and new to this page my name is Keith Mitchell I =<BR>=3D<BR>run my own tannery and do all types of skins even period correct stuff I =<BR>=3D<BR>also am a butcher by trade I am working on my persona and after a few =<BR>=3D<BR>treks I want to change my footwear the center and side seams just are to =<BR>=3D<BR>soft and after hiking in the rocky mts of Utah my feet are a bit sore I =<BR>=3D<BR>was reading mark bakers book and like the shoe pack idea but was =3D<BR>wondering if it was period for the rocky mtn fur trade my persona is =3D<BR>that of a company trapper so after reading all I could from the 8 books =<BR>=3D<BR>of buckskining and several other books I have yet to come up with what I =<BR>=3D<BR>feel will be right so I am taking advice from mark bakers book and =3D<BR>asking the trial worn experts for help so my pilgrims journey will be a =<BR>=3D<BR>bit faster=3D20<BR>thank you=3D20<BR>Keith=3D20<BR>p.s. I also run traps all winter and if there is anything I can offer in =<BR>=3D<BR>the way of help=3D20<BR>I will do my best<BR><BR>------=3D_NextPart_000_0061_01C4748D.744E0F20<BR>Content-Type: text/html;<BR>charset=3D"iso-8859-1"<BR>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable<BR><BR><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"><BR><BR>[message truncated]<BR></FONT></DIV></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 20:25:14 -0700
From: "Randal Bublitz" <rjbublitz@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: footwear
<HTML style="FONT-SIZE: x-small; FONT-FAMILY: MS Sans Serif"><HEAD>
<DIV>Hi Keith, I've always appreciated a good supportive, hard sole moccasin. I broke my heel bone almost a year and a half ago, and I'm still gimpy from it. Needless to say, I appreciate good footware even more now. You might want to check out Fugawee boots and shoes. They are periodic correct, and are shoes and boots. The cost isn't much, if any , more than good mocs. Stitchin' Scotsman makes some good hard sole side seam mocs, if you want to stick to mocs. Just a suggestion. Randy</DIV>
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Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 11:01:39 GMT
From: "trampas4@juno.com" <trampas4@juno.com>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: footwear
I agree with Tom. I too started out as a tender foot! I even had dyers. Over time I have become very comfortable with my soft sole mocs. In fact I enjoy them, they are like a pair of socks. I even bring them on modern camps and hunts. The more you wear them the more your feet toughen up. Its all about getting acclimated and just how far you want to go in being P.C.,as well as your health.Just remember we are doing this for fun and those men did this stuff for a living.
I wear side seams and pucker-toes since I portray a trapper in the rocky mtn west during the 1830s.All of mine are double sole, this helps a lot. When things get rough I will cut out pads of hair on buffalo, deer or elk. Its like cheating, it feels so good.
I have used elk, deer,buffalo and moose. In both commercial and braintan. I prefer braintan, but commercial works fine. The elk and moose seem to hold up much better in my experience. One thing to remember is that nothing waterproofs them! Alway carry two pairs. The fit is the most important thing of all, make sure the seams don't rub.
Gee,I always thought the upper Missouri had something to do with the RMFT, didn't it?
Bill G
AMM# 1880
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Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 06:52:47 -0600 (MDT)
From: beaverboy@sofast.net
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: footwear
> Geez Beaverboy calm down. Your gonna hyperventilate. <G>
Don't worry Capt. I'm OK it's just that sometimes "broad sweeping
statements" take my breath away.
>
> I stand by the basic premise of my original statement. I certainly did not
> mean to imply that no one traveled by boat but...
Lets see what you wrote "Keeping in mind that virtually all original
participants in the RMFT era
> were mounted it's understandable how they got by so handily in the
various soft sole moccasin styles". Sounds pretty clear to me. "Virtually
all original" is pretty clear and pretty sweeping.
But now you write "being at ONE TIME OR the OTHER mostly mounted"
which I do agree with.
You should be a politician! <G>
As a mostly boat or on foot trapper portraying the earliest of Mountain
Men-Colter, who some consider the "original" MM it is a fact that not
many references to Colter being on horse back exist. He did his famous
"walk" to Yellowstone not horse back ride. He was in a dugout when
captured by the Blackfeet not on horseback. And he walked back to Fort
Lisa he didn't go "mounted" and he was barefooted too, no mocs! This
all this took place before 1810 which should go as one of the "original
participants" doesn't it?
Weren't all of Lisa's trips up the Missouri in boats? Didn't he
organize the first private trapping adventure up the Missouri after
Lewis & Clark returned? In 1807. Doesn't that qualify him as one of the
"originals"? I always assumed he was a part of the RMFT.
But like I said before, It doesn't matter if they were mounted anyway.
They had to set traps on foot in rocky streams and spend the other half
of their lives on the rocky ground like the rest of us. Their feet
where just tougher than ours.
Respectfully yours,
bb
> Indians being a horse culture and most if not all the brigades in the
> hey-day of the RMFT (Rocky Mt. Fur Trade) being at one time or the other
> mostly mounted, most folks of the times being much more inured to "having
> their feet broke in for walking besides, and all the info in the way of
> journals and drawings and sketches showing various types of soft sole
> moccasins that it seems most wore soft sole mocs of one design or the
> other.
>
> I thought I%2
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Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 06:41:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: mike hodges <cannonball208@yahoo.com>
Subject: [none]
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Keith, as you have probably already guessed, the AMM members are a pretty outspoken group, and are always willing to lend a bit of helpful advice. check out stitchinscotsman's page. lots of good stuff. Also look at woodenhawks post. Enjoy some fine camaraderie and keep yer powder dry. M
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<DIV>Keith, as you have probably already guessed, the AMM members are a pretty outspoken group, and are always willing to lend a bit of helpful advice. check out stitchinscotsman's page. lots of good stuff. Also look at woodenhawks post. Enjoy some fine camaraderie and keep yer powder dry. M</DIV><p>
<hr size=1>Do you Yahoo!?<br>
<a href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/10/*http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail/static/efficiency.html">New and Improved Yahoo! Mail</a> - Send 10MB messages!
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Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 09:39:42 -0600
From: "Keith Mitchell" <mitchellsfurco@sisna.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: mocs & amm
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Hello=20
thanks for all the info on the mocs seems like I now have a good reason =
for trekking more so I can toughen up my feet but I think I will try the =
double sole center seam and shoe packs for a bit I seem to have plenty =
of skins around the throw tannery but I looks like I have to brain tan =
up some moose skins any one that once some skins let me know you're =
snail mail address and I will send you a price list I have heard some =
great things about the amm but have been unable to see if I could join =
them I have gotten a few of their publications up to fort Bridger form =
bill Cunningham I thank you again for putting up with my greenhorn =
questions and hope it is not much trouble this will be my first deer and =
elk hunt with my smoke pole so I want to do it as period as possible but =
like emmet heath says don't wait until you got it all or you will never =
start your pilgrims journey emmet helps allot of greenhorns in are =
blackpowder club he wont say but he had something to do with the start =
of fort Bridger thanks again
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