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From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest)
To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #1356
Reply-To: hist_text
Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
hist_text-digest Wednesday, May 26 2004 Volume 01 : Number 1356
In this issue:
-áááááá MtMan-List: trumpline
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Burden straps/tumplines.
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: trumpline
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Clerk's Cap
-áááááá RE: MtMan-List: Clerk's Cap
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: trumpline
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: trumpline
-áááááá RE: MtMan-List: Clerk's Cap
-áááááá RE: MtMan-List: trumpline
-áááááá RE: MtMan-List: trumpline
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 16:59:00 -0500
From: "Frank Fusco" <Rifleman1776@cox-internet.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: trumpline
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<Is there any documentation that supports the use of mountain men =
using a burden strap/tumpline?>
Pare
I cannot provide documentation, but I can recall a painting showing =
use of one by (I believe) mountain men. Miller painting perhaps? Dunno.
Frank
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV> <Is there any documentation that supports the =
use of=20
mountain men using a burden strap/tumpline?></DIV>
<DIV>Pare</DIV>
<DIV> I cannot provide documentation, but I can recall =
a=20
painting showing use of one by (I believe) mountain men. Miller painting =
perhaps? Dunno.</DIV>
<DIV>Frank</DIV></BODY></HTML>
- ------=_NextPart_000_0085_01C441B0.690DD420--
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:14:03 -0600
From: "Wynn Ormond" <cheyenne@pcu.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Burden straps/tumplines.
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Mountain Men tended to carry their loads for extended distances in =
relatively open country. Like 1000 miles across the grand prairre. =
They used mules and when they were not available they used horses. =
Sometimes they used river travel to but I don't know of any references =
to what they used to carry burdens on portages.
Meek refers to making rope by braiding horse hair. And I have seen =
references to trading with Indians for epishimores and some kind of =
rope. In that case my money would be on rawhide buffalo potentially =
with hair on.
I know Chance Tiffie is from OK and he is good people, if you don't mind =
mules. Maybe someone else can hook you up with him.
Wynn Ormond
Irish/Welch/Scotish/English Nation ;-)
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Pare Bowlegs=20
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20
Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 3:23 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: Burden straps/tumplines.
Is there any documentation that supports the use of mountain men using =
a burden strap/tumpline? If there is, were they twined from cordage, =
braintan, or rawhide?
Thanks in advance.
Btw, is there anyone else on here from Oklahoma? Give me a holler, and =
maybe we can get together soon.
Pare Bowlegs
Seminole Nation
Our oral traditions is our documentation.=20
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
- -----
Do you Yahoo!?
Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger
- ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C441C3.46E6DE60
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Mountain Men tended to carry their =
loads for=20
extended distances in relatively open country. Like 1000 miles =
across the=20
grand prairre. They used mules and when they were not available =
they used=20
horses. Sometimes they used river travel to but I don't know of =
any=20
references to what they used to carry burdens on portages.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Meek refers to making rope by braiding =
horse=20
hair. And I have seen references to trading with Indians for =
epishimores=20
and some kind of rope. In that case my money would be on rawhide=20
buffalo potentially with hair on.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I know Chance Tiffie is from OK and he =
is good=20
people, if you don't mind mules. Maybe someone else can hook you =
up with=20
him.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Wynn Ormond</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Irish/Welch/Scotish/English=20
Nation</FONT> <FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>;-)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dseminole1753@yahoo.com =
href=3D"mailto:seminole1753@yahoo.com">Pare=20
Bowlegs</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dhist_text@lists.xmission.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com=
</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, May 24, 2004 3:23 =
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> MtMan-List: Burden=20
straps/tumplines.</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Is there any documentation that supports the use of mountain men =
using a=20
burden strap/tumpline? If there is, were they twined from cordage, =
braintan,=20
or rawhide?</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks in advance.</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>Btw, is there anyone else on here from Oklahoma? Give me a =
holler, and=20
maybe we can get together soon.</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>Pare Bowlegs</DIV>
<DIV>Seminole Nation</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV><BR><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Our oral traditions <U>is</U> =
our=20
documentation.</FONT><FONT face=3D"arial black">=20
</FONT></EM></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P></P><EM></EM>
<HR SIZE=3D1>
<FONT face=3Darial size=3D-1>Do you Yahoo!?<BR>Friends. Fun. <A=20
href=3D"http://messenger.yahoo.com/">Try the all-new Yahoo!=20
Messenger</A></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 22:32:25 -0600 (MDT)
From: beaverboy@sofast.net
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: trumpline
Pasquinel used a tumpline in Centennial! Now there's some solid
documentation!
http://users.skynet.be/sky82359/centennial.html
> <Is there any documentation that supports the use of mountain men
> using a burden strap/tumpline?>
> Pare
> I cannot provide documentation, but I can recall a painting showing
> use of one by (I believe) mountain men. Miller painting perhaps?
> Dunno.
> Frank
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 22:26:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Samuel Keller <wolftalk_98@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Clerk's Cap
Thanks for the info. The Pattern there is missing the
Bill, and I am too dense to figger it out. ;)
Sam
- --- Gene Hickman <ghickman9@bresnan.net> wrote:
> Try this article on the Northwest Journal website:
> http://www.northwestjournal.ca/XII3.htm
>
> Now a "plug" for Angela Gottfred and the Northwest
> Journal
> http://www.northwestjournal.ca/.
> It is one of the most comprehensive sites on the
> Voyageur and the Canadian
> Fur Trade that I have found. Of the dozen or so
> discussion groups that I am
> also a member of, the Voyager discussion group is
> one of my favorites. I
> highly recommend taking a look at the website and
> consider joining the
> discussion group.
>
> As Always,
> Your Obedient Servant,
>
> Gene Hickman
>
> > > Anyone know where I can find a Pattern for a
> Clerk's
> > > Cap??
> > >
> > > Thanks;
> > >
> > > Sam
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info:
http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
__________________________________
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Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger.
http://messenger.yahoo.com/
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 06:44:55 -0600
From: "Larry" <L.Renney@bresnan.net>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Clerk's Cap
which size do you need, I made up the three sizes with a seamstress friend
if you need the patterns.
larry
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 20:22:20 EDT
From: NaugaMok@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: trumpline
- -------------------------------1085530940
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 5/24/2004 3:00:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
Rifleman1776@cox-internet.com writes:
I can recall a painting showing use of one by (I believe) mountain men.
Miller painting perhaps?
It's not in the book "The West of Alfred Jacob Miller". There are tumplines
possibly used in 2 of the sketches in this book, & both instances are being
used by Indians, In the sketch "Pawnee Indians migrating", one man is carrying
a pack on his back with his arms up reaching over his sholders to support the
pack. It's hard to see if he has a tumpline or not, but could have. The
other sketch, "Encampment of Indians" has a mother with her baby in a cradle board
on her back, as Miller puts it, "sustaining her child by a fillet around the
brow" -- tumpline. All mountain men in this book are transporting goods by
wagon, 2 wheel cart, or pack animal. There may be other sketches showing
Mountain Men using tumplines, but not in this publication.
Nauga Mok
- -------------------------------1085530940
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<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
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<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 5/24/2004 3:00:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Rifleman=
1776@cox-internet.com writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>I can recall a painting showing use of one by=20=
(I believe) mountain men. Miller painting perhaps? </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV=
>
<DIV>It's not in the book "The West of Alfred Jacob Miller". The=
re are tumplines possibly used in 2 of the sketches in this book, & both=
instances are being used by Indians, In the sketch "Pawnee Indians mig=
rating", one man is carrying a pack on his back with his arms up reaching ov=
er his sholders to support the pack. It's hard to see if he has a tump=
line or not, but could have. The other sketch, "Encampment of Indians"=
has a mother with her baby in a cradle board on her back, as Miller puts it=
, "sustaining her child by a fillet around the brow" -- tumpline. All=20=
mountain men in this book are transporting goods by wagon, 2 wheel cart, or=20=
pack animal. There may be other sketches showing Mountain Men using tu=
mplines, but not in this publication.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT lang=3D0 face=3DMistral size=3D4 FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT" PTSIZE=3D"14">=
Nauga Mok</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
- -------------------------------1085530940--
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 00:30:35 EDT
From: GazeingCyot@cs.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: trumpline
- --part1_1d7.2225dd2c.2de5776b_boundary
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I will agree with Wynn for the most part they did use horses and Mules to
pack there gear. But there were times when they had to take off on foot and pack
there bedding and things. Zenas Leonard gives us this account from one of
these times. They are starting out for Santafee almost 800 miles away on foot in
January and they call me Crazy.
On the morning of the 14th, finding every thing in readiness for our Santafee
trip, we set out, each man with his bedding, rifle and nine Beaver skins,
packed upon his back; leaving four men only to take care of our merchandize, and
the two mules. The beaver skins we took for the purpose of trading to the
inhabitants of Santafee for horses, mules, &c. We appointed from the middle of
April till the middle of may, as our time for return- ing; and if we did not
return within that time, our four men were to wait no longer, but return to the
mouth of the Laramies river, to meet the rest of the company.
Any way it does not say how they packed there gear but I would think a burden
strap or trumpline like the Indians used made of rawhide or one made from a
saddle chinch leather. Would be what they would have used because what ever
they used to pack there gear would have had to been made from what ever they had
at hand at the time.
This my take on this.
Crazy Cyot
- --part1_1d7.2225dd2c.2de5776b_boundary
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<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10>I will agree=20=
with Wynn for the most part they did use horses and Mules to pack there gear=
. But there were times when they had to take off on foot and pack there bedd=
ing and things. Zenas Leonard gives us this account from one of these times.=
They are starting out for Santafee almost 800 miles away on foot in January=
and they call me Crazy.
<BR>
<BR>On the morning of the 14th, finding every thing in readiness for our San=
tafee trip, we set out, each man with his bedding, rifle and nine Beaver ski=
ns, packed upon his back; leaving four men only to take care of our merchand=
ize, and the two mules. The beaver skins we took for the purpose of trading=20=
to the inhabitants of Santafee for horses, mules, &c. We appointed from=20=
the middle of April till the middle of may, as our time for return- ing; and=
if we did not return within that time, our four men were to wait no longer,=
but return to the mouth of the Laramies river, to meet the rest of the comp=
any.=20
<BR>
<BR>Any way it does not say how they packed there gear but I would think a b=
urden strap or trumpline like the Indians used made of rawhide or one made f=
rom a saddle chinch leather. Would be what they would have used because what=
ever they used to pack there gear would have had to been made from what eve=
r they had at hand at the time.
<BR>
<BR>This my take on this.
<BR>Crazy Cyot=20
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR></FONT></HTML>
- --part1_1d7.2225dd2c.2de5776b_boundary--
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 07:41:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Samuel Keller <wolftalk_98@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Clerk's Cap
That would be great, I wear a 7 5/8 (swelled head) but
my wife wants to make more of them.
- --- Larry <L.Renney@bresnan.net> wrote:
> which size do you need, I made up the three sizes
> with a seamstress friend
> if you need the patterns.
>
> larry
>
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info:
http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger.
http://messenger.yahoo.com/
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 09:16:52 -0600
From: "Rick Williams" <rick_williams@byu.edu>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: trumpline
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C44334.795AAE94
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Crazy,
When you say cinch leather, are you implying that cinches were of
leather? Would that be a single piece or several strands?
=20
=20
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com
[mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of
GazeingCyot@cs.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 10:31 PM
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: trumpline
=20
I will agree with Wynn for the most part they did use horses and Mules
to pack there gear. But there were times when they had to take off on
foot and pack there bedding and things. Zenas Leonard gives us this
account from one of these times. They are starting out for Santafee
almost 800 miles away on foot in January and they call me Crazy.=20
On the morning of the 14th, finding every thing in readiness for our
Santafee trip, we set out, each man with his bedding, rifle and nine
Beaver skins, packed upon his back; leaving four men only to take care
of our merchandize, and the two mules. The beaver skins we took for the
purpose of trading to the inhabitants of Santafee for horses, mules, &c.
We appointed from the middle of April till the middle of may, as our
time for return- ing; and if we did not return within that time, our
four men were to wait no longer, but return to the mouth of the Laramies
river, to meet the rest of the company.=20
Any way it does not say how they packed there gear but I would think a
burden strap or trumpline like the Indians used made of rawhide or one
made from a saddle chinch leather. Would be what they would have used
because what ever they used to pack there gear would have had to been
made from what ever they had at hand at the time.=20
This my take on this.=20
Crazy Cyot=20
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PTSIZE=3D10><span
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</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>When you say cinch leather, are you
implying that cinches were of leather? <span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>Would that be a single piece or =
several
strands?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original =
Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b>
owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com =
[mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com] <b><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of =
</span></b>GazeingCyot@cs.com<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, May 25, =
2004 10:31
PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =
hist_text@lists.xmission.com<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: MtMan-List: =
trumpline</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I will agree with Wynn for the most part they did use =
horses
and Mules to pack there gear. But there were times when they had to take =
off on
foot and pack there bedding and things. Zenas Leonard gives us this =
account
from one of these times. They are starting out for Santafee almost 800 =
miles
away on foot in January and they call me Crazy. <br>
<br>
On the morning of the 14th, finding every thing in readiness for our =
Santafee
trip, we set out, each man with his bedding, rifle and nine Beaver =
skins, packed
upon his back; leaving four men only to take care of our merchandize, =
and the
two mules. The beaver skins we took for the purpose of trading to the
inhabitants of Santafee for horses, mules, &c. We appointed from the =
middle
of April till the middle of may, as our time for return- ing; and if we =
did not
return within that time, our four men were to wait no longer, but return =
to the
mouth of the Laramies river, to meet the rest of the company. <br>
<br>
Any way it does not say how they packed there gear but I would think a =
burden
strap or trumpline like the Indians used made of rawhide or one made =
from a
saddle chinch leather. Would be what they would have used because what =
ever
they used to pack there gear would have had to been made from what ever =
they
had at hand at the time. <br>
<br>
This my take on this. <br>
Crazy Cyot <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br style=3D'mso-special-character:line-break'>
<![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]><br =
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<![endif]></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
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=00
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 08:59:25 -0700
From: Pat Quilter <pat_quilter@qscaudio.com>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: trumpline
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
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Good extract for discussion. I have not yet found any real mention of HOW
expeditions on foot carried their gear - the farthest they get is something
like "hoisting our bundles on our backs, we resumed the trail". So a
tumpline (no "r" by the way) is a very likely period solution.
What I find equally amazing is the MILEAGE - 1600 miles round trip in 3-4
months - works out to 15 miles day-in, day-out. This correlates with the
15-25 mile days reported by the expedition returning from Astoria after they
lost their horses. These were hardy men!
Pat Quilter
- -----Original Message-----
From: Rick Williams [mailto:rick_williams@byu.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 8:17 AM
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: trumpline
Crazy,
When you say cinch leather, are you implying that cinches were of leather?
Would that be a single piece or several strands?
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com
[mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of GazeingCyot@cs.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 10:31 PM
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: trumpline
I will agree with Wynn for the most part they did use horses and Mules to
pack there gear. But there were times when they had to take off on foot and
pack there bedding and things. Zenas Leonard gives us this account from one
of these times. They are starting out for Santafee almost 800 miles away on
foot in January and they call me Crazy.
On the morning of the 14th, finding every thing in readiness for our
Santafee trip, we set out, each man with his bedding, rifle and nine Beaver
skins, packed upon his back; leaving four men only to take care of our
merchandize, and the two mules. The beaver skins we took for the purpose of
trading to the inhabitants of Santafee for horses, mules, &c. We appointed
from the middle of April till the middle of may, as our time for return-
ing; and if we did not return within that time, our four men were to wait no
longer, but return to the mouth of the Laramies river, to meet the rest of
the company.
Any way it does not say how they packed there gear but I would think a
burden strap or trumpline like the Indians used made of rawhide or one made
from a saddle chinch leather. Would be what they would have used because
what ever they used to pack there gear would have had to been made from what
ever they had at hand at the time.
This my take on this.
Crazy Cyot
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vLink=3Dpurple>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D279335315-26052004>Good=20
extract for discussion. I have not yet found any real mention of HOW =
expeditions=20
on foot carried their gear - the farthest they get is something like =
"hoisting=20
our bundles on our backs, we resumed the trail". So a tumpline (no "r" =
by the=20
way) is a very likely period solution. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D279335315-26052004></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D279335315-26052004>What I=20
find equally amazing is the MILEAGE - 1600 miles round trip in 3-4 =
months -=20
works out to 15 miles day-in, day-out. This correlates with the 15-25 =
mile days=20
reported by the expedition returning from Astoria after they lost their =
horses.=20
These were hardy men!</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D279335315-26052004></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D279335315-26052004>Pat=20
Quilter</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Rick Williams=20
[mailto:rick_williams@byu.edu]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, May 26, =
2004 8:17=20
AM<BR><B>To:</B> hist_text@lists.xmission.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE:=20
MtMan-List: trumpline<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV class=3DSection1>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy face=3DArial size=3D2 =
PTSIZE=3D"10"><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">Crazy,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">When you =
say cinch=20
leather, are you implying that cinches were of leather? <SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Would that be a single piece =
or several=20
strands?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DTahoma =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">-----Original=20
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> =
owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com =
[mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com]=20
<B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of=20
</SPAN></B>GazeingCyot@cs.com<BR><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tuesday, May 25, 2004 =
10:31=20
PM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>=20
hist_text@lists.xmission.com<BR><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: MtMan-List:=20
trumpline</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; =
mso-margin-top-alt: 0in"><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">I will=20
agree with Wynn for the most part they did use horses and Mules to =
pack there=20
gear. But there were times when they had to take off on foot and pack =
there=20
bedding and things. Zenas Leonard gives us this account from one of =
these=20
times. They are starting out for Santafee almost 800 miles away on =
foot in=20
January and they call me Crazy. <BR><BR>On the morning of the 14th, =
finding=20
every thing in readiness for our Santafee trip, we set out, each man =
with his=20
bedding, rifle and nine Beaver skins, packed upon his back; leaving =
four men=20
only to take care of our merchandize, and the two mules. The beaver =
skins we=20
took for the purpose of trading to the inhabitants of Santafee for =
horses,=20
mules, &c. We appointed from the middle of April till the middle =
of may,=20
as our time for return- ing; and if we did not return within that =
time, our=20
four men were to wait no longer, but return to the mouth of the =
Laramies=20
river, to meet the rest of the company. <BR><BR>Any way it does not =
say how=20
they packed there gear but I would think a burden strap or trumpline =
like the=20
Indians used made of rawhide or one made from a saddle chinch =
leather. Would=20
be what they would have used because what ever they used to pack =
there gear=20
would have had to been made from what ever they had at hand at the =
time.=20
<BR><BR>This my take on this. <BR>Crazy Cyot =
<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR=20
style=3D"mso-special-character: line-break"><![if =
!supportLineBreakNewLine]><BR=20
style=3D"mso-special-character: =
line-break"><![endif]></SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></=
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