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Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 19:02:35 -0800
From: "Randal Bublitz" <rjbublitz@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Is this thing working?
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Hi Lee, I've noticed things quiet down during weekends. I've speculated a cross between some on work computers and folks getting out on the ground during weekends? The AMM western territorial was held last week in Texas, put on by the TX/OK brigade. Six of us Californians traveled over for it, and we were not disappointed. Those TX/OK brothers sure treated us good. The doin's was on a brother's Ranch about an hour outside San Antonio. A group of about 30 of us went to the Alamo on 2-5, in our skins, etc... that was fun. I'm still playing catch up from my over a week away from home. I'll bet there will be a good article coming up in the T & LR. I hope to share a camp fire with you in the future. Yfab, hardtack
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Lee Teter
February 15, 2004
Hello. I haven't heard anything for about three days, I'm wondering if I'm still hooked in. Our sever was down for about 24 hours.
<DIV><FONT face="MS Sans Serif" size=2>Hi Lee, I've noticed things quiet down during weekends. I've speculated a cross between some on work computers and folks getting out on the ground during weekends? The AMM western territorial was held last week in Texas, put on by the TX/OK brigade. Six of us Californians traveled over for it, and we were not disappointed. Those TX/OK brothers sure treated us good. The doin's was on a brother's Ranch about an hour outside San Antonio. A group of about 30 of us went to the Alamo on 2-5, in our skins, etc... that was fun. I'm still playing catch up from my over a week away from home. I'll bet there will be a good article coming up in the T & LR. I hope to share a camp fire with you in the future. Yfab, hardtack</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>Hello. I haven't heard anything for about three days, I'm wondering if I'm still hooked in. Our sever was down for about 24 hours. </DIV>
<DIV>Lee</DIV>
<P></P></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 19:12:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Lee Teter <leeteter@yahoo.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: Indian contribution to decimation of buffalo
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Well, since no one is writing much I'd like to know if anyone else out there has read a book called Destruction of the Buffalo by Andrew Isenburg.
I did a paper on the subject a few years before the book came out in 2000 and was surprised to see a book by a modern University that seemed to agree with my findings. Isenburg is a Princeton U. History professor and made revelations that should have had the book on shelves everywhere, but I don't see it around much.
The book provides information about the fictional and overestimated 72 million buffalo ( when the environment would only support 20 to 30 million or even less), the killing of the reproduction base (cows) for robes, the Indian waste of millions of animals for robes and tongues alone, the Indian driven market (rather than just the "euroamerican" evil of free enterprise ), and much other insight not seen in the books usually found at book stores (and I have never seen one at any U.S. Park Service historic site I've visited.)
My own little paper, a paltry thing compared to this book, was put together to accompany some of my art and was slowly built on evidence I found after seeing references by trappers who were commenting on the decline of the bison as early as the 1830's. It is very good, very scholarly, yet easy to read. It must be read slow though, because every sentence is important, and many of the references are some of those hidden jewels I had not heard of.
There is no doubt the hide hunters finished the buffalo, but it is abundently clear that, without a sudden change of lifestyle, the Indian would have killed them all anyway.
Anyone else out there read it?
Lee Teter
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<DIV>Well, since no one is writing much I'd like to know if anyone else out there has read a book called <U>Destruction of the Buffalo</U> by Andrew Isenburg. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I did a paper on the subject a few years before the book came out in 2000 and was surprised to see a book by a modern University that seemed to agree with my findings. Isenburg is a Princeton U. History professor and made revelations that should have had the book on shelves everywhere, but I don't see it around much.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The book provides information about the fictional and overestimated 72 million buffalo ( when the environment would only support 20 to 30 million or even less), the killing of the reproduction base (cows) for robes, the Indian waste of millions of animals for robes and tongues alone, the Indian driven market (rather than just the "euroamerican" evil of free enterprise ), and much other insight not seen in the books usually found at book stores (and I have never seen one at any U.S. Park Service historic site I've visited.) </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>My own little paper, a paltry thing compared to this book, was put together to accompany some of my art and was slowly built on evidence I found after seeing references by trappers who were commenting on the decline of the bison as early as the 1830's. It is very good, very scholarly, yet easy to read. It must be read slow though, because every sentence is important, and many of the references are some of those hidden jewels I had not heard of.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>There is no doubt the hide hunters finished the buffalo, but it is abundently clear that, without a sudden change of lifestyle, the Indian would have killed them all anyway. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Anyone else out there read it?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Lee Teter</DIV><p><hr SIZE=1>
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Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 20:19:39 -0700
From: Todd D Glover <tetontodd@juno.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Indian contribution to decimation of buffalo
Lee,
Can't say that I've read that one. I'll look into it and add the evidence
to school presentations I do.
All those school kids have been convinced by their teachers that the
Army, hide hunters and sportsmen wiped out the buffalo partly to hasten
the demise of the Indians. Wonder how they'll accept new evidence?
Thanks
Todd
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Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 19:25:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Lee Teter <leeteter@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Indian contribution to decimation of buffalo
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That last paragraph should read
. . . abundantly clear that, without a sudden change of lifestyle, the Indians would have killed the buffalo to the point of extinction.
I think that states it a little better.
Lee
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<DIV>. . . abundantly clear that, without a sudden change of lifestyle, the Indians would have killed the buffalo to the point of extinction.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I think that states it a little better.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Lee</DIV>
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Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 19:45:25 -0800
From: "RP Lahti" <amm1719@charter.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Indian contribution to decimation of buffalo
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Lee,
No, I haven't read it but the conclusions found it do not surprise me. =
While I have the greatest respect for the native Americans, their =
failure to acknowledge that with their coming to this hemisphere they =
wiped out any number of species by their subsistence hunting techniques =
and with the coming of the horse, were as that book points out, well on =
their way of rubbing out the bison.=20
The truth is the truth no matter that it hurts.
YMOS
Capt. Lahti'
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