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From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #1258 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Sunday, November 2 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1258 In this issue: -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Fw: White Arian Brotherhood -áááááá RE: MtMan-List: winter camps and gear -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Fw: White Arian Brotherhood -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: winter camps and gear -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: winter camps and gear -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: winter camps and gear -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: winter camps and gear -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Fw: White Arian Brotherhood -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: winter camps and gear -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: winter camps and gear -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: winter camps and gear ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 22:17:13 -0500 From: "Double Edge Forge" <deforge1@bright.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: White Arian Brotherhood This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C3A0C5.E68B5BC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable May I suggeest kindly that this bitch be tossed from whatever list she = is on??? D ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Lanney Ratcliff=20 To: Danney Ratcliff=20 Cc: scalpdance ; History List ; AMM=20 Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 7:30 AM Subject: MtMan-List: Fw: White Arian Brotherhood Here is my response to one Ms Pauline Schneider who posted me with the = little message appended below my response. Anybody know this person? ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Lanney Ratcliff=20 To: Pauline Schneider=20 Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 6:26 AM Subject: Re: White Arian Brotherhood Yes ma'am I do hate nazis and all of their ilk........without apology = to you or anybody else. You don't know a God damned thing about me and = your opinion is of no value to me at all. I will tell you this. My = father died from the being shot with a German machine gun in a war = against nazis and that's enough personal reason for me to hate them. As = for everybody having a good reason to hate the nazis there was that = little matter of herr hitler coming closer than we realize to destroying = the world. Oh, one more thing......the millions who died in nazi death = camps murdered by nazis trying to scourge the world of non aryans could = be another reason. Need I go on? I could, but I'm sick of this. However, that's all I hate, with the exception of cockroaches which = are pretty much the same as nazis. I don't know who you are and don't = care to know. I am adding you to my "blocked senders" list and anything = else from you will go immediately to my delete file. =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Pauline Schneider=20 To: lanneyratcliff@charter.net=20 Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 11:51 PM Subject: White Arian Brotherhood Sounds like you are just as full of hate has they are. - ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C3A0C5.E68B5BC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>May I suggeest kindly that this bitch = be tossed=20 from whatever list she is on???</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>D</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Dlanneyratcliff@charter.net=20 href=3D"mailto:lanneyratcliff@charter.net">Lanney Ratcliff</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3Dd-ratcliff@sbcglobal.net=20 href=3D"mailto:d-ratcliff@sbcglobal.net">Danney Ratcliff</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A = title=3Dscalpdance@yahoogroups.com=20 href=3D"mailto:scalpdance@yahoogroups.com">scalpdance</A> ; <A=20 title=3Dhist_text@xmission.com = href=3D"mailto:hist_text@xmission.com">History=20 List</A> ; <A title=3Dammlist@xmission.com=20 href=3D"mailto:ammlist@xmission.com">AMM</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, November 01, = 2003 7:30=20 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> MtMan-List: Fw: White = Arian=20 Brotherhood</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Here is my response to = one Ms Pauline=20 Schneider who posted me with the little message appended below my=20 response. Anybody know this person?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----=20 <DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A=20 title=3Dlanneyratcliff@charter.net=20 href=3D"mailto:lanneyratcliff@charter.net">Lanney Ratcliff</A> </DIV> <DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dpjes@comcast.net=20 href=3D"mailto:pjes@comcast.net">Pauline Schneider</A> </DIV> <DIV><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, November 01, 2003 6:26 AM</DIV> <DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: White Arian Brotherhood</DIV></DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Yes ma'am I do hate nazis = and all of=20 their ilk........without apology to you or anybody else. = You don't=20 know a God damned thing about me and your opinion is of no = value to=20 me at all. I will tell you this. My father died from the = being=20 shot with a German machine gun in a war against nazis and that's = enough=20 personal reason for me to hate them. As for everybody = having a=20 good reason to hate the nazis there was that little matter of = herr hitler=20 coming closer than we realize to destroying the world. Oh, = one more=20 thing......the millions who died in nazi death camps murdered by = nazis=20 trying to scourge the world of non aryans could be another = reason. =20 Need I go on? I could, but I'm sick of this.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>However, that's all I = hate, with the=20 exception of cockroaches which are pretty much the same as nazis. = I=20 don't know who you are and don't care to know. I am adding you = to my=20 "blocked senders" list and anything else from you will go immediately = to my=20 delete file. </FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Dpjes@comcast.net href=3D"mailto:pjes@comcast.net">Pauline = Schneider</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3Dlanneyratcliff@charter.net=20 = href=3D"mailto:lanneyratcliff@charter.net">lanneyratcliff@charter.net</A>= =20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, October 31, = 2003 11:51=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> White Arian = Brotherhood</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sounds like you are just as full of = hate has=20 they are.</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> - ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C3A0C5.E68B5BC0-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 19:40:33 -0800 From: Pat Quilter <pat_quilter@qscaudio.com> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: winter camps and gear Hello Larry I am sure you will get better advice from those with "real" winter experience - I have only slept out to maybe 20 degrees F (-ie hard frost and frozen buckets). First off, no mountain man "willingly" camps in -40 weather - this would be a full-on survival emergency. Find the very best sheltered area, heap up a BIG pile of wood, and be prepared to keep your fire going all night. (Remember to avoid building under snow-laden trees). To avoid all this inconvenience, mountain men found somewhat more hospitable areas to winter over in, with cabins or tipis for shelter. For "reasonable" weather (down to zero, maybe?), you will need 2-3 good wool blankets, a windbreaker such as canvas or buffalo robe, and some kind of ground cloth or equivalent. You will presumbably sleep in your warm clothes. You will need to choose your campsite carefully, make a good bed of boughs or brush to insulate from the ground, and have a fire going. I have found that a buffalo robe is worth at least 2 good wool blankets, although heavier and less useful if wet. Also, in Lewis Garrard's journal, he notes that once the weather turned freezing, mountain men commonly paired up to share warmth and double their bedroll. There is an episode that implies they followed the natural practice of keeping their head under the covers when cold enough - although this will cause some moisture to collect. I think opinions vary on long underwear although it is very useful and frequently seen today. The original guys definitely wanted wool underneath if they could get it. An insulating layer topped with a wind-breaker (leather) layer should keep you warm. As you know, winter mocassins are the tough part - journals report all kinds of improvised stuffings, wool linings, winter mocassins of fur if available, etc. The main thing is to avoid getting wet, and if it happens, get yourself dried out with a good fire before sleeping. If it gets REALLY cold, you will be waking up shivering to tend your fire. It will be a long night but you will survive. As far as your gear goes, stick to the materials that were available (wool and leather), use your common sense, and go out with experienced people to learn and lend assistance if necessary. Good luck Pat Quilter - -----Original Message----- From: Larry [mailto:L.Renney@bresnan.net] Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 7:00 PM To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Subject: MtMan-List: winter camps and gear Being a new pilgrim, I would like to get it right the first time. Once hunting season is over, I plan on making new gear, and repairing old gear. What type of gear do I need for winter camps? I know I need to make some wool pants and winter mocs. did they have long underwear in the 1800's? I know I need to layer, but what do you suggest besides my shirt and capote? What do you use to sleep in? how many wool blankets would it take, or is there a better way? We can expect 40 below here in Montana, and I would rather be prepared. Larry - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 23:28:30 -0500 From: Fred Miller <fmiller@lightlink.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: White Arian Brotherhood On Saturday 01 November 2003 12:07 pm, MdntRdr1@aol.com wrote: > Maybe I missed it, but how did a list about the Mountain Men get onto the > subject of methhead idiots who are usually classified in the "Universally > Stupid and Worthless" category? 'Considered of less value than pond scum. Fred - -- "...Linux, MS-DOS, and Windows XP (also known as the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly)." - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 00:05:31 EST From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: winter camps and gear - --part1_194.20c4f4ca.2cd5ea9b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Howdy Larry you asked What type of gear do I need for winter camps? I know I need to make some wool pants and winter mocs. did they have long underwear in the 1800's? I know I need to layer, but what do you suggest besides my shirt and capote? What do you use to sleep in? how many wool blankets would it take, or is there a better way? We can expect 40 below here in Montana, and I would rather be prepared. This is what I use for winter doin's here in Idaho. As for wool pants not this child I use my leather pantaloons narrow falls style made of buckskin or a set of narrow fall knee Breeches with buckskin leggins over them. I do wear a pair of wool blanket boatas on the out side to keep my lower legs dry in snow. As for underwear they did have what was called under drawers. Mine are made of wool they are high waisted with a buttoned up front and have a draw string in the back like pantaloons and breeches have. For the top half, my shirts are drop sleeve. I have them made out of cotton, linen, fustian, wool and flannel, depending on the temp I can layer up to keep warm. Over the shirts I have a wool short wasted vest that I wear, of the style of the early 1800s. This has been a very useful item to my outfit for it adds warmth where ya need it. For a coat my leather frock coat is all I use. Some do use capotes but I do not and there has only been a few times that I wanted more on as a rule this been when I was not moving a round much so a blanket warped around me has worked for me. I am of the type that stays worm do not have to ware a lot to keep warm. On my head I use my beaver felt hat if my ears start to get cold I sometimes tie a scarf on my head to help keep the ears warm under my hat. When it comes to sleeping in the winter there is one thing to remember is you need as much if not more under you as you do over you. Come rob season there is only one thing to remember and that is buffalo. A good robe is worth four blankets when it come to warmth. I use two good heavy wool blankets and buffalo robe if it is going to get below 0 I will add another blanket and another hide with hair on to put under me with the ground cloth. This all makes for a good load to get in to camp that is where a toboggan comes in handy. Hope this helps Crazy Cyot - --part1_194.20c4f4ca.2cd5ea9b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>Howdy Larry <BR> <BR>you asked=20 <BR> <BR>What type of gear do I need for winter camps? I know I need to make some <BR>wool pants and winter mocs. did they have long underwear in the 1800's?=20= I <BR>know I need to layer, but what do you suggest besides my shirt and capot= e? <BR>What do you use to sleep in? how many wool blankets would it take,= or is <BR>there a better way? We can expect 40 below here in Montana, and I=20= would <BR>rather be prepared. <BR>=20 <BR>This is what I use for winter doin's here in Idaho. <BR>As for wool pants not this child I use my leather pantaloons narrow fall= s style made of buckskin or a set of narrow fall knee Breeches with buckskin= leggins over them.=20 <BR>I do wear a pair of wool blanket boatas on the out side to keep my lower= legs dry in snow. As for underwear they did have what was called under draw= ers. Mine are made of wool they are high waisted with a buttoned up front an= d have a draw string in the back like pantaloons and breeches have.</FONT><F= ONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"= 0"> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Ar= ial" LANG=3D"0">For the top half, my shirts are drop sleeve. I have them mad= e out of cotton, linen, fustian, wool and flannel, depending on the temp I c= an layer up to keep warm. <BR>Over the shirts I have a wool short wasted vest that I wear, of the styl= e of the early 1800s. This has been a very useful item to my outfit for it a= dds warmth where ya need it. For a coat my leather frock coat is all I use.=20= Some do use capotes but I do not and there has only been a few times that I=20= wanted more on as a rule this been when I was not moving a round much so a b= lanket warped around me has worked for me. I am of the type that stays worm=20= do not have to ware a lot to keep warm. On my head I use my beaver felt hat=20= if my ears start to get cold I sometimes tie a scarf on my head to help keep= the ears warm under my hat.</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY= =3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Ar= ial" LANG=3D"0">When it comes to sleeping in the winter there is one thing t= o remember is you need as much if not more under you as you do over you. Com= e rob season there is only one thing to remember and that is buffalo. A good= robe is worth four blankets when it come to warmth. I use two good heavy wo= ol blankets and buffalo robe if it is going to get below 0 I will add anothe= r blanket and another hide with hair on to put under me with the ground clot= h. This all makes for a good load to get in to camp that is where a toboggan= comes in handy.=20 <BR>Hope this helps <BR>Crazy Cyot <BR> <BR> <BR> </FONT></HTML> - --part1_194.20c4f4ca.2cd5ea9b_boundary-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 23:27:04 -0600 From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <lanneyratcliff@charter.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: winter camps and gear Larry Pat's advice is good, especially the part about insulating yourself from the ground (or snow) and combining bedrolls with another camper and bunking together. You will have the advantage of a doubled bedroll and the body heat of the other person. I am a large man and find myself pretty popular on cold nights. I have the metabolism (and thus the body heat) of a 300 lb shrew so I pretty much radiate heat. So be nice to us big guys. I have camped in chilly weather but not as cold as what you will find in Montana. However, I have slept under a diamond fly 15 miles from my home in Texas with the over night temp down to +6 F which is pretty cold and stayed as warm as a box full of puppies. After being sure you have a GOOD bedroll, two things I recommend in moderately cold weather is (1) sleep with your mocs tucked up under you or in your shirt if you choose not to wear them while you sleep. Makes 'em easy to find when you need them.....and they will probably be warm and dry by morning (2) wear a good warm head covering. I tie on a silk scarf "pirate style" and cover that with a good wool pull-over cap, pulled over my face if necessary. Since my cold weather experience is limited to above zero temps somebody else will have to advise you about really cold weather camping. I don't drink much coffee or even water for a good while before turning in. That way you have a better chance of making it though the night without having to crawl out of you warm bedroll in the middle of a cold night to answer a call of nature. Eating a chunk of sugar is said to kick up your metabolism and will make you warmer from the inside out. I am diabetic and wouldn't know much about eating chunks of sugar at any time of day but I have heard others swear by this trick. good luck Lanney Ratcliff - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat Quilter" <pat_quilter@qscaudio.com> To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 9:40 PM Subject: RE: MtMan-List: winter camps and gear > Hello Larry > > I am sure you will get better advice from those with "real" winter > experience - I have only slept out to maybe 20 degrees F (-ie hard frost and > frozen buckets). > > First off, no mountain man "willingly" camps in -40 weather - this would be > a full-on survival emergency. Find the very best sheltered area, heap up a > BIG pile of wood, and be prepared to keep your fire going all night. > (Remember to avoid building under snow-laden trees). To avoid all this > inconvenience, mountain men found somewhat more hospitable areas to winter > over in, with cabins or tipis for shelter. > > For "reasonable" weather (down to zero, maybe?), you will need 2-3 good wool > blankets, a windbreaker such as canvas or buffalo robe, and some kind of > ground cloth or equivalent. You will presumbably sleep in your warm clothes. > You will need to choose your campsite carefully, make a good bed of boughs > or brush to insulate from the ground, and have a fire going. I have found > that a buffalo robe is worth at least 2 good wool blankets, although heavier > and less useful if wet. Also, in Lewis Garrard's journal, he notes that once > the weather turned freezing, mountain men commonly paired up to share warmth > and double their bedroll. There is an episode that implies they followed the > natural practice of keeping their head under the covers when cold enough - > although this will cause some moisture to collect. > > I think opinions vary on long underwear although it is very useful and > frequently seen today. The original guys definitely wanted wool underneath > if they could get it. An insulating layer topped with a wind-breaker > (leather) layer should keep you warm. As you know, winter mocassins are the > tough part - journals report all kinds of improvised stuffings, wool > linings, winter mocassins of fur if available, etc. > > The main thing is to avoid getting wet, and if it happens, get yourself > dried out with a good fire before sleeping. If it gets REALLY cold, you will > be waking up shivering to tend your fire. It will be a long night but you > will survive. As far as your gear goes, stick to the materials that were > available (wool and leather), use your common sense, and go out with > experienced people to learn and lend assistance if necessary. > > Good luck > Pat Quilter > > -----Original Message----- > From: Larry [mailto:L.Renney@bresnan.net] > Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 7:00 PM > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: MtMan-List: winter camps and gear > > > > > Being a new pilgrim, I would like to get it right the first time. Once > hunting season is over, I plan on making new gear, and repairing old gear. > What type of gear do I need for winter camps? I know I need to make some > wool pants and winter mocs. did they have long underwear in the 1800's? I > know I need to layer, but what do you suggest besides my shirt and capote? > What do you use to sleep in? how many wool blankets would it take, or is > there a better way? We can expect 40 below here in Montana, and I would > rather be prepared. > Larry > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 22:38:14 -0700 From: James and Sue Stone <jandsstone@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: winter camps and gear Larry, Pat's got good advice. What I would do to hedge my bets (necessary in - -40 wx) would be take some of what you usually camp with in those kind of temps that you know works. Even if you leave it in the truck, have it where you can get to it if necessary. Trial and error is a great way to learn, but not if you die while learning you made an error! Sparks Pat Quilter wrote: >Hello Larry > >I am sure you will get better advice from those with "real" winter >experience - I have only slept out to maybe 20 degrees F (-ie hard frost and >frozen buckets). > >First off, no mountain man "willingly" camps in -40 weather - this would be >a full-on survival emergency. Find the very best sheltered area, heap up a >BIG pile of wood, and be prepared to keep your fire going all night. >(Remember to avoid building under snow-laden trees). To avoid all this >inconvenience, mountain men found somewhat more hospitable areas to winter >over in, with cabins or tipis for shelter. > >For "reasonable" weather (down to zero, maybe?), you will need 2-3 good wool >blankets, a windbreaker such as canvas or buffalo robe, and some kind of >ground cloth or equivalent. You will presumbably sleep in your warm clothes. >You will need to choose your campsite carefully, make a good bed of boughs >or brush to insulate from the ground, and have a fire going. I have found >that a buffalo robe is worth at least 2 good wool blankets, although heavier >and less useful if wet. Also, in Lewis Garrard's journal, he notes that once >the weather turned freezing, mountain men commonly paired up to share warmth >and double their bedroll. There is an episode that implies they followed the >natural practice of keeping their head under the covers when cold enough - >although this will cause some moisture to collect. > >I think opinions vary on long underwear although it is very useful and >frequently seen today. The original guys definitely wanted wool underneath >if they could get it. An insulating layer topped with a wind-breaker >(leather) layer should keep you warm. As you know, winter mocassins are the >tough part - journals report all kinds of improvised stuffings, wool >linings, winter mocassins of fur if available, etc. > >The main thing is to avoid getting wet, and if it happens, get yourself >dried out with a good fire before sleeping. If it gets REALLY cold, you will >be waking up shivering to tend your fire. It will be a long night but you >will survive. As far as your gear goes, stick to the materials that were >available (wool and leather), use your common sense, and go out with >experienced people to learn and lend assistance if necessary. > >Good luck >Pat Quilter > >-----Original Message----- >From: Larry [mailto:L.Renney@bresnan.net] >Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 7:00 PM >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: MtMan-List: winter camps and gear > > > > >Being a new pilgrim, I would like to get it right the first time. Once >hunting season is over, I plan on making new gear, and repairing old gear. >What type of gear do I need for winter camps? I know I need to make some >wool pants and winter mocs. did they have long underwear in the 1800's? I >know I need to layer, but what do you suggest besides my shirt and capote? >What do you use to sleep in? how many wool blankets would it take, or is >there a better way? We can expect 40 below here in Montana, and I would >rather be prepared. >Larry > > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 05:11:27 EST From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: winter camps and gear - --part1_5b.40e919f0.2cd6324f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Larry Lanney and Pat had some good ideas. I do use shared body heat most of the time myself but I am lucky in the fact that when I do it is with Jill and I do not have to put up with as much of the snoring that some of the Brothers do at night. I have heard of some using the hot rock trick but ya can get the rocks to hot and burn stuff. Plus Montana is like Idaho and as a rule when ya want to try and use hot rocks they are usually under a lot of snow. Here is something I've seen done by a few that seems to work well for them they poor their water out of their canteen in to a pot and bring it to a boil and poor it back in to there canteen and tie a rag around it so the cork cannot come out and use it as a hot water bottle. Of cores you what to make sure it will not leek and only do this with a copper or tin canteens. The coldest night I have been out on the ground was around -45 and I have done several -15 and lower. When it this cold never brake a sweat and do not go to bed wet have dry mocs or socks to put on to go to bed with. I have never been able to keep a hat on at night when I sleep so I make my bed so I can have one of the wool blanket that I can pull up over my head when I sleep. You get to breath warm air and it helps to keep your body heat in your bed where you want it. As for this putting moisture in your bed as long as you do not pull an oil cloth over your head with it I have not noticed this to be a problem and this is with two of use in the same bed doing the same thing. The only place where I have noticed any moisture is the spot where my breath has been hitting the blanket and is a spot of only a couple of inches in diameter and that is all. As for keeping a fire going all night if you have to do this you do not have enough bedding and it is time to add to your bed roll is what I think. As a rule I sleep a ways away form the fire pit any way hot sparks and oil cloth do not go well together. If you have enough under you as in oil cloth and buff hide or hair on elk or sheep skins and blankets plus your bedding folded under you, you should not have to build a nest of pine bows and such. Any way I have only built a nest once and that was on one of my first primitive winter camp after that I learned how to put my bed roll together so it had enough insulation built in under me so I can lay it out on top of the snow and be just fine. The worst thing that can happen is to be camped in deep snow and have it warm up and start to rain then you have got problems big time. So long as it stays below freezing and you stay dry you will be fine so long as you are prepared for the cold that is. I have read of Mountain Men wintering in Cache Valley and here in the Snake River Valley both these places see a lot of snow and cold well below 0 so they did not always winter in warmer places. If they could they did get ready for winter so they would have had enough buff hides to keep them warm at night and they did try to spend as much time as they could in one place come winter so a tipi or cabin was built at times but there were times when they had to move camp in winter and they did not have these luxuries also. When I do my winter camps I think of myself as one doing just this for on snow shoes and pulling toboggans this is a man on the move and the way I do my winter camps. Any way Larry if you want to see some pictures from some of our winter camps there are some on my web site and on this other site a good article on winter camping for women that also gives some information that can help any one doing winter camps. Ya might want to take a look. From what I've seen and heard every ones does it a little different and you just need to find out what works best for you. See ya on the trail Crazy Cyot <A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/gazingcyot/id7.htm">http://members.tripod.com/gazingcyot/id7.htm</A> <A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/womenofthefurtrade/id3.htm">http://members.tripod.com/womenofthefurtrade/id3.htm</A> - --part1_5b.40e919f0.2cd6324f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>Larry=20 <BR>Lanney and Pat had some good ideas. <BR> I do use shared body heat most of the time myself but I am lucky in the= fact that when I do it is with Jill and I do not have to put up with as muc= h of the snoring that some of the Brothers do at night. <BR>I have heard of some using the hot rock trick but ya can get the rocks t= o hot and burn stuff. Plus Montana is like Idaho and as a rule when ya want=20= to try and use hot rocks they are usually under a lot of snow. Here is somet= hing I've seen done by a few that seems to work well for them they poor thei= r water out of their canteen in to a pot and bring it to a boil and poor it=20= back in to there canteen and tie a rag around it so the cork cannot come out= and use it as a hot water bottle. Of cores you what to make sure it will no= t leek and only do this with a copper or tin canteens.=20 <BR>The coldest night I have been out on the ground was around -45 and I hav= e done several -15 and lower. When it this cold never brake a sweat and do n= ot go to bed wet have dry mocs or socks to put on to go to bed with. <BR> I have never been able to keep a hat on at night when I sleep so I make= my bed so I can have one of the wool blanket that I can pull up over my hea= d when I sleep. You get to breath warm air and it helps to keep your body he= at in your bed where you want it. <BR>As for this putting moisture in your bed as long as you do not pull an o= il cloth over your head with it I have not noticed this to be a problem and=20= this is with two of use in the same bed doing the same thing. The only place= where I have noticed any moisture is the spot where my breath has been hitt= ing the blanket and is a spot of only a couple of inches in diameter and tha= t is all. <BR>As for keeping a fire going all night if you have to do this you do not=20= have enough bedding and it is time to add to your bed roll is what I think.=20= As a rule I sleep a ways away form the fire pit any way hot sparks and oil c= loth do not go well together. <BR> If you have enough under you as in oil cloth and buff hide or hair on e= lk or sheep skins and blankets plus your bedding folded under you, you shoul= d not have to build a nest of pine bows and such. Any way I have only built=20= a nest once and that was on one of my first primitive winter camp after that= I learned how to put my bed roll together so it had enough insulation built= in under me so I can lay it out on top of the snow and be just fine.=20 <BR>The worst thing that can happen is to be camped in deep snow and have it= warm up and start to rain then you have got problems big time. So long as i= t stays below freezing and you stay dry you will be fine so long as you are=20= prepared for the cold that is. <BR>I have read of Mountain Men wintering in Cache Valley and here in the Sn= ake River Valley both these places see a lot of snow and cold well below 0 s= o they did not always winter in warmer places. <BR>If they could they did get ready for winter so they would have had enoug= h buff hides to keep them warm at night and they did try to spend as much ti= me as they could in one place come winter so a tipi or cabin was built at ti= mes but there were times when they had to move camp in winter and they did n= ot have these luxuries also.=20 <BR>When I do my winter camps I think of myself as one doing just this for o= n snow shoes and pulling toboggans this is a man on the move and the way I d= o my winter camps. <BR>Any way Larry if you want to see some pictures from some of our winter c= amps there are some on my web site and on this other site a good article on=20= winter camping for women that also gives some information that can help any=20= one doing winter camps. Ya might want to take a look. From what I've seen an= d heard every ones does it a little different and you just need to find out=20= what works best for you. <BR>See ya on the trail <BR>Crazy Cyot <BR><A HREF=3D"http://members.tripod.com/gazingcyot/id7.htm">http://members.= tripod.com/gazingcyot/id7.htm</A> <BR><A HREF=3D"http://members.tripod.com/womenofthefurtrade/id3.htm">http://= members.tripod.com/womenofthefurtrade/id3.htm</A> <BR> <BR></FONT></HTML> - --part1_5b.40e919f0.2cd6324f_boundary-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 07:54:58 -0500 From: palmer@netdor.com (Palmer Schatell) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: White Arian Brotherhood Sir: You are mistaken. Pond scum and these mental and moral defectives can be used as fertilizer. Don't forget, no one is totally useless. The worst of us can all ways serve as horrible examples. Tres Coupe - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Miller" <fmiller@lightlink.com> To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 11:28 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: White Arian Brotherhood > On Saturday 01 November 2003 12:07 pm, MdntRdr1@aol.com wrote: > > Maybe I missed it, but how did a list about the Mountain Men get onto the > > subject of methhead idiots who are usually classified in the "Universally > > Stupid and Worthless" category? > > 'Considered of less value than pond scum. > > Fred > > -- > "...Linux, MS-DOS, and Windows XP (also known as the Good, the Bad, and > the Ugly)." > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 14:27:11 +0000 From: "Sean Boushie" <flintlocknfur@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: winter camps and gear Another Montana man! Whare do you hail from larry? I'm In Stevensville. >From: "Larry" <L.Renney@bresnan.net> >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> >Subject: MtMan-List: winter camps and gear >Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 19:59:47 -0700 > > > >Being a new pilgrim, I would like to get it right the first time. Once >hunting season is over, I plan on making new gear, and repairing old gear. >What type of gear do I need for winter camps? I know I need to make some >wool pants and winter mocs. did they have long underwear in the 1800's? I >know I need to layer, but what do you suggest besides my shirt and capote? >What do you use to sleep in? how many wool blankets would it take, or is >there a better way? We can expect 40 below here in Montana, and I would >rather be prepared. >Larry > > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html _________________________________________________________________ Fretting that your Hotmail account may expire because you forgot to sign in enough? Get Hotmail Extra Storage today! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 08:50:07 -0700 From: Ole Jensen <olebjensen@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: winter camps and gear Larry, Get with your sponser or Brigade leader and they should point you in the right direction. Ole On Saturday, November 1, 2003, at 07:59 PM, Larry wrote: > > > Being a new pilgrim, I would like to get it right the first time. Once > hunting season is over, I plan on making new gear, and repairing old > gear. > What type of gear do I need for winter camps? I know I need to make > some > wool pants and winter mocs. did they have long underwear in the > 1800's? I > know I need to layer, but what do you suggest besides my shirt and > capote? > What do you use to sleep in? how many wool blankets would it take, or > is > there a better way? We can expect 40 below here in Montana, and I > would > rather be prepared. > Larry > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 09:08:26 -0700 From: Ole Jensen <olebjensen@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: winter camps and gear - --Apple-Mail-4--712206671 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Larry, Crazy is very experienced in winter and I can't think of anyone better to learn this skill from. Ole On Sunday, November 2, 2003, at 03:11 AM, GazeingCyot@cs.com wrote: > Larry > Lanney and Pat had some good ideas. > I do use shared body heat most of the time myself but I am lucky in > the fact that when I do it is with Jill and I do not have to put up > with as much of the snoring that some of the Brothers do at night. > I have heard of some using the hot rock trick but ya can get the rocks > to hot and burn stuff. Plus Montana is like Idaho and as a rule when > ya want to try and use hot rocks they are usually under a lot of snow. > Here is something I've seen done by a few that seems to work well for > them they poor their water out of their canteen in to a pot and bring > it to a boil and poor it back in to there canteen and tie a rag around > it so the cork cannot come out and use it as a hot water bottle. Of > cores you what to make sure it will not leek and only do this with a > copper or tin canteens. > The coldest night I have been out on the ground was around -45 and I > have done several -15 and lower. When it this cold never brake a sweat > and do not go to bed wet have dry mocs or socks to put on to go to bed > with. > I have never been able to keep a hat on at night when I sleep so I > make my bed so I can have one of the wool blanket that I can pull up > over my head when I sleep. You get to breath warm air and it helps to > keep your body heat in your bed where you want it. > As for this putting moisture in your bed as long as you do not pull an > oil cloth over your head with it I have not noticed this to be a > problem and this is with two of use in the same bed doing the same > thing. The only place where I have noticed any moisture is the spot > where my breath has been hitting the blanket and is a spot of only a > couple of inches in diameter and that is all. > As for keeping a fire going all night if you have to do this you do > not have enough bedding and it is time to add to your bed roll is what > I think. As a rule I sleep a ways away form the fire pit any way hot > sparks and oil cloth do not go well together. > If you have enough under you as in oil cloth and buff hide or hair on > elk or sheep skins and blankets plus your bedding folded under you, > you should not have to build a nest of pine bows and such. Any way I > have only built a nest once and that was on one of my first primitive > winter camp after that I learned how to put my bed roll together so it > had enough insulation built in under me so I can lay it out on top of > the snow and be just fine. > The worst thing that can happen is to be camped in deep snow and have > it warm up and start to rain then you have got problems big time. So > long as it stays below freezing and you stay dry you will be fine so > long as you are prepared for the cold that is. > I have read of Mountain Men wintering in Cache Valley and here in the > Snake River Valley both these places see a lot of snow and cold well > below 0 so they did not always winter in warmer places. > If they could they did get ready for winter so they would have had > enough buff hides to keep them warm at night and they did try to spend > as much time as they could in one place come winter so a tipi or cabin > was built at times but there were times when they had to move camp in > winter and they did not have these luxuries also. > When I do my winter camps I think of myself as one doing just this for > on snow shoes and pulling toboggans this is a man on the move and the > way I do my winter camps. > Any way Larry if you want to see some pictures from some of our winter > camps there are some on my web site and on this other site a good > article on winter camping for women that also gives some information > that can help any one doing winter camps. Ya might want to take a > look. From what I've seen and heard every ones does it a little > different and you just need to find out what works best for you. > See ya on the trail > Crazy Cyot > http://members.tripod.com/gazingcyot/id7.htm > http://members.tripod.com/womenofthefurtrade/id3.htm > - --Apple-Mail-4--712206671 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII Larry, Crazy is very experienced in winter and I can't think of anyone better to learn this skill from. Ole On Sunday, November 2, 2003, at 03:11 AM, GazeingCyot@cs.com wrote: <excerpt><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>Larry Lanney and Pat had some good ideas. I do use shared body heat most of the time myself but I am lucky in the fact that when I do it is with Jill and I do not have to put up with as much of the snoring that some of the Brothers do at night. I have heard of some using the hot rock trick but ya can get the rocks to hot and burn stuff. Plus Montana is like Idaho and as a rule when ya want to try and use hot rocks they are usually under a lot of snow. Here is something I've seen done by a few that seems to work well for them they poor their water out of their canteen in to a pot and bring it to a boil and poor it back in to there canteen and tie a rag around it so the cork cannot come out and use it as a hot water bottle. Of cores you what to make sure it will not leek and only do this with a copper or tin canteens. The coldest night I have been out on the ground was around -45 and I have done several -15 and lower. When it this cold never brake a sweat and do not go to bed wet have dry mocs or socks to put on to go to bed with. I have never been able to keep a hat on at night when I sleep so I make my bed so I can have one of the wool blanket that I can pull up over my head when I sleep. You get to breath warm air and it helps to keep your body heat in your bed where you want it. As for this putting moisture in your bed as long as you do not pull an oil cloth over your head with it I have not noticed this to be a problem and this is with two of use in the same bed doing the same thing. The only place where I have noticed any moisture is the spot where my breath has been hitting the blanket and is a spot of only a couple of inches in diameter and that is all. As for keeping a fire going all night if you have to do this you do not have enough bedding and it is time to add to your bed roll is what I think. As a rule I sleep a ways away form the fire pit any way hot sparks and oil cloth do not go well together. If you have enough under you as in oil cloth and buff hide or hair on elk or sheep skins and blankets plus your bedding folded under you, you should not have to build a nest of pine bows and such. Any way I have only built a nest once and that was on one of my first primitive winter camp after that I learned how to put my bed roll together so it had enough insulation built in under me so I can lay it out on top of the snow and be just fine. The worst thing that can happen is to be camped in deep snow and have it warm up and start to rain then you have got problems big time. So long as it stays below freezing and you stay dry you will be fine so long as you are prepared for the cold that is. I have read of Mountain Men wintering in Cache Valley and here in the Snake River Valley both these places see a lot of snow and cold well below 0 so they did not always winter in warmer places. If they could they did get ready for winter so they would have had enough buff hides to keep them warm at night and they did try to spend as much time as they could in one place come winter so a tipi or cabin was built at times but there were times when they had to move camp in winter and they did not have these luxuries also. When I do my winter camps I think of myself as one doing just this for on snow shoes and pulling toboggans this is a man on the move and the way I do my winter camps. Any way Larry if you want to see some pictures from some of our winter camps there are some on my web site and on this other site a good article on winter camping for women that also gives some information that can help any one doing winter camps. Ya might want to take a look. From what I've seen and heard every ones does it a little different and you just need to find out what works best for you. See ya on the trail Crazy Cyot <underline><color><param>1999,1999,FFFF</param>http://members.tripod.com/gazingcyot/id7.htm http://members.tripod.com/womenofthefurtrade/id3.htm </color></underline></smaller></fontfamily></excerpt> - --Apple-Mail-4--712206671-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #1258 ******************************** - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.