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hist_text-digest       Saturday, June 14 2003       Volume 01 : Number 1208



In this issue:

-áááááá Re: MtMan-List:Trip to Montana
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List:Trip to Montana
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List:Trip to Montana
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 18:57:02 -0600
From: James and Sue Stone <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Trip to Montana

Masrk,
I'd have to look on a map, but with luck you are between Livingston and
Butte where you can go to the three forks of the Missouri west of
Bozeman.  Bozeman Pass itself between Livingston and Bozeman was one
James "Ol Gabe" Bridger used if not pioneered.  Depending upon where you
are coming from, Idaho has Pierre's Hole, which is the valley west of
Jackson Hole...back side of the Tetons, as well as a replica of Ft. Hall
in Pocatello.  Wyoming has South Pass, not to mention the site of the
first rondezvous near the Hamms Fork of the Henry's Fork,  Ft. Bridger
and the Yellowstone country.  The South Platte heads somewhere in that
vicinity.  Utah has places made famous by Ashley in 1825.  Also there
are lots of places Lewis and Clark wrote about and visited through
Montana, Idaho and points both east and west.

I hope you don't run out of time.
Sparks

[e-mail] wrote:

>Hello the Camp
>I am making a trip to Montana for a doings SW of Butte the first of July.
>Haven't been past Billings before. What are some must see and worth seeing along
>the way from Billings west That relate to the fur trade and L&C?
>Thanks Mark "Roadkill" Loader
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
>
>



- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 10:37:50 -0600
From: "Steve Banks" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Mr. Ormond,
I had to check my source again and I would refer you to the following:
page 21 of the journal - Jan. 8th, paraphrasing,  "the horses were dead =
and the men were figuring to pack their mechandize on the two mules and =
themselves"
page 40 of the journal - April 20th, again the two mules are alive but =
weak and the party stops because they've found sweet cottonwood and are =
allowing the mules to "recruit from their suffering".  I believe the =
mules and men did make it back to the mouth of the Laramie River in =
June.
The opinion I expressed about the cottonwood trees was that of a =
botanist who has spent many years studying the trees of Wyoming.  In the =
area where Zenas spent the winter, as near as anyone can tell, there is =
only one species of cottonwood.  And that provides the mystery of why at =
the downstream area of the river the tree bark was edible.  I don't know =
if in the winter of 1831 that there were two species of cottonwood =
growing in that area.  I have been in that area a number of times, =
hunting, fishing etc, and in my limited knowledge of botany, have not =
noticed more than one type of cottonwood.  In fact there are very few =
trees even left!!  I have wondered where that trapping party found =
enough trees to build what buildings they had.  There is know remaining =
evidence of their camp, so the mystery remains!
Steve Banks=20
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Wynn Ormond=20
  To: [e-mail]=20
  Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 10:26 PM
  Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse


  Mr Banks=20
  =20
  It has been a while since I read Zenas but I believe all the animals =
died the mules were just slower about it.  The men carried everything =
out on their own backs.  Secondly, there is nothing mysterious like =
chemicals in the trees.  There are different types of cottonwoods and =
the broad leaf has a sweet inner bark the narrow doesn't.=20
  =20
  However dispite Zenas's experience and as I posted before there is =
plenty of evidnece that this method of wintering horses worked most of =
the time.
  Wynn Ormond
   =20
    ----- Original Message -----=20
    From: Steve Banks=20
    To: [e-mail]=20
    Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 8:58 PM
    Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse


    Dorothy,
    Zenas Leonard's account from "Adventures of a Mountain Man:" gives =
an answer to your question.  They had to stay a winter on the upper =
Laramie River and this was their experience.  You can read about it =
starting on page 19 - 21.  The cottonwood bark here had a different =
characteristic from the bark they had been feeding lower downstream on =
the Laramie River.  Unfortunatly the horses starved because they refused =
to eat the bark in this winter camp.  Only the mules survived.  I've =
investigated this with a friend of mine and his opinion was that the =
bitterness was caused by some mineral that was absorbed in the tree.  =
There is a lot of a low grade aluminum mineral around the Laramie area =
and this might be a possibility.  For your interest, I have retraced =
Leonard's route from the mouth of the Laramie River to its source at =
Chambers Lake at the foot of Cameron Pass in Colorado.  Hope this helps =
some.
    Steve Banks
      ----- Original Message -----=20
      From: DOROTHY MORRIS=20
      To: [e-mail]=20
      Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 12:57 PM
      Subject: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse


      Can anyone tell me how a Mountain Man took fed his horse while up =
at a trapping camp during a Rocky Mountain Winter?  I hear the horses =
ate the inner bark of the cottonwood tree, but how was it gathered and =
by whom? Did the horses roam at will to eat and risk being food for =
wolves? Were there enough cottonwood trees?  What else did they eat?  =
What were the logistics of this situation?  Anyone know?  Love to hear =
from you.
      =20
      DKM

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff id=3DMailContainerBody leftMargin=3D0=20
style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM-STYLE: none; BORDER-LEFT-STYLE: none; =
BORDER-RIGHT-STYLE: none; BORDER-TOP-STYLE: none; COLOR: #000000; =
FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-WEIGHT: =
normal; PADDING-LEFT: 10px; PADDING-TOP: 15px; TEXT-DECORATION: none"=20
topMargin=3D0 name=3D"Compose message area" CanvasTabStop=3D"true" =
acc_role=3D"text">
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Mr. Ormond,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I had to check my source again and I would refer =
you to=20
the following:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>page 21 of the journal - Jan. 8th, =
paraphrasing, =20
"the horses were dead and the men were figuring to pack their mechandize =
on the=20
two mules and themselves"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>page 40 of the journal - April 20th, again the =
two mules=20
are alive but weak and the party stops because they've found sweet =
cottonwood=20
and are allowing the mules to "recruit from their suffering".  I =
believe=20
the mules and men did make it back to the mouth of the Laramie River in=20
June.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>The opinion I expressed about the cottonwood =
trees was=20
that of a botanist who has spent many years studying the trees of =
Wyoming. =20
In the area where Zenas spent the winter, as near as anyone can tell, =
there is=20
only one species of cottonwood.  And that provides the mystery of =
why at=20
the downstream area of the river the tree bark was edible.  I don't =
know if=20
in the winter of 1831 that there were two species of cottonwood growing =
in that=20
area.  I have been in that area a number of times, hunting, fishing =
etc,=20
and in my limited knowledge of botany, have not noticed more than one =
type of=20
cottonwood.  In fact there are very few trees even left!!  I =
have=20
wondered where that trapping party found enough trees to build what =
buildings=20
they had.  There is know remaining evidence of their camp, so the =
mystery=20
remains!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Steve Banks </FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]" title=[e-mail]>Wynn =
Ormond</A>=20
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]"=20
  title=[e-mail]>[e-mail]</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, June 12, 2003 =
10:26=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: =
Mountain Man's=20
  horse</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Mr Banks </FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>It has been a while since I read Zenas but I =
believe all=20
  the animals died the mules were just slower about it.  The=20
  men carried everything out on their own backs.  Secondly, =
there is=20
  nothing mysterious like chemicals in the trees.  There are =
different=20
  types of cottonwoods and the broad leaf has a sweet inner bark =
the narrow=20
  doesn't. </FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>However dispite Zenas's experience and as I =
posted=20
  before there is plenty of evidnece that this method of wintering =
horses=20
  worked most of the time.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Wynn Ormond</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>  </FONT></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
  style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
    <A href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]" =
title=[e-mail]>Steve Banks</A>=20
    </DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
    href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]"=20
    =
title=[e-mail]>[e-mail]</A> =
</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, June 10, 2003 =
8:58=20
    PM</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: =
Mountain Man's=20
    horse</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT><FONT face=3DArial></FONT><BR></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Dorothy,</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Zenas Leonard's account from "Adventures of =
a Mountain=20
    Man:" gives an answer to your question.  They had to stay a =
winter on=20
    the upper Laramie River and this was their experience.  You can =
read=20
    about it starting on page 19 - 21.  The cottonwood bark here =
had a=20
    different characteristic from the bark they had been feeding lower=20
    downstream on the Laramie River.  Unfortunatly the horses =
starved=20
    because they refused to eat the bark in this winter camp.  Only =
the=20
    mules survived.  I've investigated this with a friend of mine =
and his=20
    opinion was that the bitterness was caused by some mineral that was =
absorbed=20
    in the tree.  There is a lot of a low grade aluminum mineral =
around the=20
    Laramie area and this might be a possibility.  For your =
interest, I=20
    have retraced Leonard's route from the mouth of the Laramie River to =
its=20
    source at Chambers Lake at the foot of Cameron Pass in =
Colorado.  Hope=20
    this helps some.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Steve Banks</FONT></DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE=20
    style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
      <DIV=20
      style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
      <A href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]" title=[e-mail]>DOROTHY =
MORRIS</A>=20
      </DIV>
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
      href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]"=20
      =
title=[e-mail]>[e-mail]</A> =
</DIV>
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, June 08, 2003 =
12:57=20
      PM</DIV>
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> MtMan-List: =
Mountain Man's=20
      horse</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial></FONT><BR></DIV>
      <DIV>Can anyone tell me how a Mountain Man took fed his horse =
while up at=20
      a trapping camp during a Rocky Mountain Winter?  I hear the =
horses=20
      ate the inner bark of the cottonwood tree, but how was it gathered =
and by=20
      whom? Did the horses roam at will to eat and risk being food for=20
      wolves? Were there enough cottonwood trees?  What =
else did=20
      they eat?  What were the logistics of this situation?  =
Anyone=20
      know?  Love to hear from you.</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
      =
<DIV>DKM</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C33261.00F86080--



- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 11:51:07 -0700
From: "DOROTHY MORRIS" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Dear Mr. Ormand and Mr. Banks,

Thank you both for your information on the Mountain Men's horses that I =
originally requested.  I have learned a great deal.=20

Now another question and this regards the actual months that a Mountain =
Man spent working his trapping area. Did he go up into the mountains in =
Autumn and remain until Spring or did he only go toward the springtime?=20

Dorothy

- ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Steve Banks=20
  To: [e-mail]=20
  Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2003 9:37 AM
  Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse


  Mr. Ormond,
  I had to check my source again and I would refer you to the following:
  page 21 of the journal - Jan. 8th, paraphrasing,  "the horses were =
dead and the men were figuring to pack their mechandize on the two mules =
and themselves"
  page 40 of the journal - April 20th, again the two mules are alive but =
weak and the party stops because they've found sweet cottonwood and are =
allowing the mules to "recruit from their suffering".  I believe the =
mules and men did make it back to the mouth of the Laramie River in =
June.
  The opinion I expressed about the cottonwood trees was that of a =
botanist who has spent many years studying the trees of Wyoming.  In the =
area where Zenas spent the winter, as near as anyone can tell, there is =
only one species of cottonwood.  And that provides the mystery of why at =
the downstream area of the river the tree bark was edible.  I don't know =
if in the winter of 1831 that there were two species of cottonwood =
growing in that area.  I have been in that area a number of times, =
hunting, fishing etc, and in my limited knowledge of botany, have not =
noticed more than one type of cottonwood.  In fact there are very few =
trees even left!!  I have wondered where that trapping party found =
enough trees to build what buildings they had.  There is know remaining =
evidence of their camp, so the mystery remains!
  Steve Banks=20
    ----- Original Message -----=20
    From: Wynn Ormond=20
    To: [e-mail]=20
    Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 10:26 PM
    Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse


    Mr Banks=20

    It has been a while since I read Zenas but I believe all the animals =
died the mules were just slower about it.  The men carried everything =
out on their own backs.  Secondly, there is nothing mysterious like =
chemicals in the trees.  There are different types of cottonwoods and =
the broad leaf has a sweet inner bark the narrow doesn't.=20

    However dispite Zenas's experience and as I posted before there is =
plenty of evidnece that this method of wintering horses worked most of =
the time.
    Wynn Ormond
     =20
      ----- Original Message -----=20
      From: Steve Banks=20
      To: [e-mail]=20
      Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 8:58 PM
      Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse


      Dorothy,
      Zenas Leonard's account from "Adventures of a Mountain Man:" gives =
an answer to your question.  They had to stay a winter on the upper =
Laramie River and this was their experience.  You can read about it =
starting on page 19 - 21.  The cottonwood bark here had a different =
characteristic from the bark they had been feeding lower downstream on =
the Laramie River.  Unfortunatly the horses starved because they refused =
to eat the bark in this winter camp.  Only the mules survived.  I've =
investigated this with a friend of mine and his opinion was that the =
bitterness was caused by some mineral that was absorbed in the tree.  =
There is a lot of a low grade aluminum mineral around the Laramie area =
and this might be a possibility.  For your interest, I have retraced =
Leonard's route from the mouth of the Laramie River to its source at =
Chambers Lake at the foot of Cameron Pass in Colorado.  Hope this helps =
some.
      Steve Banks
        ----- Original Message -----=20
        From: DOROTHY MORRIS=20
        To: [e-mail]=20
        Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 12:57 PM
        Subject: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse


        Can anyone tell me how a Mountain Man took fed his horse while =
up at a trapping camp during a Rocky Mountain Winter?  I hear the horses =
ate the inner bark of the cottonwood tree, but how was it gathered and =
by whom? Did the horses roam at will to eat and risk being food for =
wolves? Were there enough cottonwood trees?  What else did they eat?  =
What were the logistics of this situation?  Anyone know?  Love to hear =
from you.

        DKM
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    charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type =
content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY id=3DMailContainerBody=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 10px; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
COLOR: #000000; BORDER-TOP-STYLE: none; PADDING-TOP: 15px; FONT-STYLE: =
normal; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; BORDER-RIGHT-STYLE: none; =
BORDER-LEFT-STYLE: none; TEXT-DECORATION: none; BORDER-BOTTOM-STYLE: =
none"=20
bgColor=3D#ffffff leftMargin=3D0 topMargin=3D0 acc_role=3D"text" =
CanvasTabStop=3D"true"=20
name=3D"Compose message area"><?xml:namespace prefix=3D"v" =
/><?xml:namespace prefix=3D"o" />
<DIV>Dear Mr. Ormand and Mr. Banks,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thank you both for your information on the Mountain Men's horses =
that I=20
originally requested.  I have learned a great deal. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Now another question and this regards the actual months that a=20
Mountain Man spent working his trapping area. Did he go up =
into the=20
mountains in Autumn and remain until Spring or did he only go =
toward the=20
springtime? </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Dorothy</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>From:</B> <A =
title=[e-mail]=20
  href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">Steve Banks</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=[e-mail]=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]=
</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, June 14, 2003 =
9:37=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: =
Mountain Man's=20
  horse</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000000; =
FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Mr. Ormond,</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I had to check my source again and I would =
refer you to=20
  the following:</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>page 21 of the journal - Jan. 8th, =
paraphrasing, =20
  "the horses were dead and the men were figuring to pack their =
mechandize on=20
  the two mules and themselves"</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>page 40 of the journal - April 20th, again the =
two mules=20
  are alive but weak and the party stops because they've found sweet =
cottonwood=20
  and are allowing the mules to "recruit from their suffering".  I =
believe=20
  the mules and men did make it back to the mouth of the Laramie River =
in=20
  June.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>The opinion I expressed about the cottonwood =
trees was=20
  that of a botanist who has spent many years studying the trees of=20
  Wyoming.  In the area where Zenas spent the winter, as near as =
anyone can=20
  tell, there is only one species of cottonwood.  And that provides =
the=20
  mystery of why at the downstream area of the river the tree bark was=20
  edible.  I don't know if in the winter of 1831 that there were =
two=20
  species of cottonwood growing in that area.  I have been in that =
area a=20
  number of times, hunting, fishing etc, and in my limited knowledge of =
botany,=20
  have not noticed more than one type of cottonwood.  In fact there =
are=20
  very few trees even left!!  I have wondered where that trapping =
party=20
  found enough trees to build what buildings they had.  There is =
know=20
  remaining evidence of their camp, so the mystery remains!</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Steve Banks </FONT></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
  style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
    <A title=[e-mail] href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">Wynn =
Ormond</A>=20
    </DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
    title=[e-mail]=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]=
</A>=20
    </DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, June 12, 2003 =
10:26=20
    PM</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: =
Mountain Man's=20
    horse</DIV>
    <DIV><BR></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Mr Banks </FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>It has been a while since I read Zenas but I =
believe=20
    all the animals died the mules were just slower about it.  The=20
    men carried everything out on their own backs.  Secondly, =
there is=20
    nothing mysterious like chemicals in the trees.  There are =
different=20
    types of cottonwoods and the broad leaf has a sweet inner bark =
the=20
    narrow doesn't. </FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>However dispite Zenas's experience and as I =
posted=20
    before there is plenty of evidnece that this method of wintering =
horses=20
    worked most of the time.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Wynn Ormond</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>  </FONT></DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
    style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
      <DIV=20
      style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
      <A title=[e-mail] =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">Steve=20
      Banks</A> </DIV>
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
      title=[e-mail]=20
      =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]=
</A>=20
      </DIV>
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, June 10, =
2003 8:58=20
      PM</DIV>
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: =
Mountain=20
      Man's horse</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial></FONT><BR></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Dorothy,</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Zenas Leonard's account from "Adventures =
of a=20
      Mountain Man:" gives an answer to your question.  They had to =
stay a=20
      winter on the upper Laramie River and this was their =
experience.  You=20
      can read about it starting on page 19 - 21.  The cottonwood =
bark here=20
      had a different characteristic from the bark they had been feeding =
lower=20
      downstream on the Laramie River.  Unfortunatly the horses =
starved=20
      because they refused to eat the bark in this winter camp.  =
Only the=20
      mules survived.  I've investigated this with a friend of mine =
and his=20
      opinion was that the bitterness was caused by some mineral that =
was=20
      absorbed in the tree.  There is a lot of a low grade aluminum =
mineral=20
      around the Laramie area and this might be a possibility.  For =
your=20
      interest, I have retraced Leonard's route from the mouth of the =
Laramie=20
      River to its source at Chambers Lake at the foot of Cameron Pass =
in=20
      Colorado.  Hope this helps some.</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Steve Banks</FONT></DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE=20
      style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
        <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
        <DIV=20
        style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
        <A title=[e-mail] =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">DOROTHY=20
        MORRIS</A> </DIV>
        <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
        title=[e-mail]=20
        =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]=
</A>=20
        </DIV>
        <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, June 08, =
2003 12:57=20
        PM</DIV>
        <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> MtMan-List: =
Mountain Man's=20
        horse</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial></FONT><BR></DIV>
        <DIV>Can anyone tell me how a Mountain Man took fed his horse =
while up=20
        at a trapping camp during a Rocky Mountain Winter?  I hear =
the=20
        horses ate the inner bark of the cottonwood tree, but how was it =

        gathered and by whom? Did the horses roam at will to eat and =
risk being=20
        food for wolves? Were there enough cottonwood =
trees? =20
        What else did they eat?  What were the logistics of this=20
        situation?  Anyone know?  Love to hear from you.</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
        =
<DIV>DKM</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><=
/BODY></HTML>

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 13:06:03 -0600 (MDT)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Trip to Montana

Mouth of the Bighorn river on the Yellowstone is the site of Fort Manuel
Lisa. The first fur trade post or building for that matter in Montana.
  Nothing remains of the post but it is a beautiful place to see.
           bb





> Masrk,
> I'd have to look on a map, but with luck you are between Livingston and
> Butte where you can go to the three forks of the Missouri west of
> Bozeman.  Bozeman Pass itself between Livingston and Bozeman was one
> James "Ol Gabe" Bridger used if not pioneered.  Depending upon where you
> are coming from, Idaho has Pierre's Hole, which is the valley west of
> Jackson Hole...back side of the Tetons, as well as a replica of Ft. Hall
> in Pocatello.  Wyoming has South Pass, not to mention the site of the
> first rondezvous near the Hamms Fork of the Henry's Fork,  Ft. Bridger
> and the Yellowstone country.  The South Platte heads somewhere in that
> vicinity.  Utah has places made famous by Ashley in 1825.  Also there
> are lots of places Lewis and Clark wrote about and visited through
> Montana, Idaho and points both east and west.
>
> I hope you don't run out of time.
> Sparks
>
> [e-mail] wrote:
>
>>Hello the Camp
>>I am making a trip to Montana for a doings SW of Butte the first of July.
>>Haven't been past Billings before. What are some must see and worth
>> seeing along
>>the way from Billings west That relate to the fur trade and L&C?
>>Thanks Mark "Roadkill" Loader
>>
>>----------------------
>>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 13:17:13 -0600 (MDT)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse

  Most "mountain men" or trappers as they should be properly be called
stayed in the beaver country year round or traveled to a distant fort or
rendezvous for supplies as needed. The large majority of the beaver
caught in the west were most likely caught in the rivered basins of the
west. The vast Dakota's and eastern plains of Wyoming, Montana,Colorado
provided a huge amount of the fur trade era. Which is ironically far
from the mountains. Regardless of where they were they most likely found
nice warm valleys or forts to winter in.
  And they trapped year round untill the rivers froze rock solid or the
beaver were all gone. The fall hunt commenced after the rendezvous and
ran untill freeze up, the spring season ran from ice off untill all the
beaver were gone or it was time to travel to the rendezvous site and
they trapped along the way to it as well.
   A least this is what I've been reading in journals.
         beaverboy




> Dear Mr. Ormand and Mr. Banks,
>
> Thank you both for your information on the Mountain Men's horses that I
> originally requested.  I have learned a great deal.
>
> Now another question and this regards the actual months that a Mountain
> Man spent working his trapping area. Did he go up into the mountains in
> Autumn and remain until Spring or did he only go toward the springtime?
>
> Dorothy
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Steve Banks
>   To: [e-mail]
>   Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2003 9:37 AM
>   Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse
>
>
>   Mr. Ormond,
>   I had to check my source again and I would refer you to the following:
>   page 21 of the journal - Jan. 8th, paraphrasing,  "the horses were dead
> and the men were figuring to pack their mechandize on the two mules and
> themselves"
>   page 40 of the journal - April 20th, again the two mules are alive but
> weak and the party stops because they've found sweet cottonwood and are
> allowing the mules to "recruit from their suffering".  I believe the
> mules and men did make it back to the mouth of the Laramie River in
> June.
>   The opinion I expressed about the cottonwood trees was that of a
> botanist who has spent many years studying the trees of Wyoming.  In the
> area where Zenas spent the winter, as near as anyone can tell, there is
> only one species of cottonwood.  And that provides the mystery of why at
> the downstream area of the river the tree bark was edible.  I don't know
> if in the winter of 1831 that there were two species of cottonwood
> growing in that area.  I have been in that area a number of times,
> hunting, fishing etc, and in my limited knowledge of botany, have not
> noticed more than one type of cottonwood.  In fact there are very few
> trees even left!!  I have wondered where that trapping party found
> enough trees to build what buildings they had.  There is know remaining
> evidence of their camp, so the mystery remains!
>   Steve Banks
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     From: Wynn Ormond
>     To: [e-mail]
>     Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 10:26 PM
>     Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse
>
>
>     Mr Banks
>
>     It has been a while since I read Zenas but I believe all the animals
> died the mules were just slower about it.  The men carried everything
> out on their own backs.  Secondly, there is nothing mysterious like
> chemicals in the trees.  There are different types of cottonwoods and
> the broad leaf has a sweet inner bark the narrow doesn't.
>
>     However dispite Zenas's experience and as I posted before there is
> plenty of evidnece that this method of wintering horses worked most of
> the time.
>     Wynn Ormond
>
>       ----- Original Message -----
>       From: Steve Banks
>       To: [e-mail]
>       Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 8:58 PM
>       Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse
>
>
>       Dorothy,
>       Zenas Leonard's account from "Adventures of a Mountain Man:" gives
> an answer to your question.  They had to stay a winter on the upper
> Laramie River and this was their experience.  You can read about it
> starting on page 19 - 21.  The cottonwood bark here had a different
> characteristic from the bark they had been feeding lower downstream
> on the Laramie River.  Unfortunatly the horses starved because they
> refused to eat the bark in this winter camp.  Only the mules
> survived.  I've investigated this with a friend of mine and his
> opinion was that the bitterness was caused by some mineral that was
> absorbed in the tree.  There is a lot of a low grade aluminum
> mineral around the Laramie area and this might be a possibility.
> For your interest, I have retraced Leonard's route from the mouth of
> the Laramie River to its source at Chambers Lake at the foot of
> Cameron Pass in Colorado.  Hope this helps some.
>       Steve Banks
>         ----- Original Message -----
>         From: DOROTHY MORRIS
>         To: [e-mail]
>         Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 12:57 PM
>         Subject: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse
>
>
>         Can anyone tell me how a Mountain Man took fed his horse while up
> at a trapping camp during a Rocky Mountain Winter?  I hear the
> horses ate the inner bark of the cottonwood tree, but how was it
> gathered and by whom? Did the horses roam at will to eat and risk
> being food for wolves? Were there enough cottonwood trees?  What
> else did they eat?  What were the logistics of this situation?
> Anyone know?  Love to hear from you.
>
>         DKM


- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 13:19:57 -0600 (MDT)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Trip to Montana

Pompey's Pillar is also interesing to see and is only 30 miles or so east
of Billings. It has Clark's name scratced on it and is the only tangible
evidence of the expedition in the west.
                 bb


> Hello the Camp
> I am making a trip to Montana for a doings SW of Butte the first of July.
> Haven't been past Billings before. What are some must see and worth seeing
> along
> the way from Billings west That relate to the fur trade and L&C?
> Thanks Mark "Roadkill" Loader
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


- ----------------------
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 16:33:48 -0600
From: James and Sue Stone <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse

- --------------070605010107010601000401
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I agree w/ Beaverboy on them staying in beaver country, and that many
came from the larger river valley bottoms.  They did trap headwaters, as
lots of places the valleys get very broad and somewhat flatbottomed so
water can slow and beaver dam the areas.  You need to look at weather in
the west.  Winters are right harsh, especially in those nice river
'holes' like Jackson Hole, and in Idaho's Stanley Basin (like 45 to 60
below zero).  I would guess that most would be down in the lower river
valleys that time of year where the water was still moving (although I
have seen water running in the Salmon River when it was 30 below...lots
of slush ice with it).  Jim Bridger used to talk about the three seasons
in the Rocky Mountains.  Those being July, August and winter.  As it is
now, lots of places in the high country we don't get wildflowers until
June and even sometimes July because they don't like to come up through
several feet of melting snow.  One ski area near here (n. utah) was
bragging last winter about receiving "100-inches in 100 hours" that
being snow.  Not bad for being in the fifth year of drought.

Sparks

DOROTHY MORRIS wrote:

> Dear Mr. Ormand and Mr. Banks,
>
> Thank you both for your information on the Mountain Men's horses that
> I originally requested.  I have learned a great deal.
>
> Now another question and this regards the actual months that a
> Mountain Man spent working his trapping area. Did he go up into the
> mountains in Autumn and remain until Spring or did he only go toward
> the springtime?
>
> Dorothy
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>     From: Steve Banks <mailto:[e-mail]>
>     To: [e-mail]
>     <mailto:[e-mail]>
>     Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2003 9:37 AM
>     Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse
>
>     Mr. Ormond,
>     I had to check my source again and I would refer you to the following:
>     page 21 of the journal - Jan. 8th, paraphrasing,  "the horses were
>     dead and the men were figuring to pack their mechandize on the two
>     mules and themselves"
>     page 40 of the journal - April 20th, again the two mules are alive
>     but weak and the party stops because they've found sweet
>     cottonwood and are allowing the mules to "recruit from their
>     suffering".  I believe the mules and men did make it back to the
>     mouth of the Laramie River in June.
>     The opinion I expressed about the cottonwood trees was that of a
>     botanist who has spent many years studying the trees of Wyoming.
>     In the area where Zenas spent the winter, as near as anyone can
>     tell, there is only one species of cottonwood.  And that provides
>     the mystery of why at the downstream area of the river the tree
>     bark was edible.  I don't know if in the winter of 1831 that there
>     were two species of cottonwood growing in that area.  I have been
>     in that area a number of times, hunting, fishing etc, and in my
>     limited knowledge of botany, have not noticed more than one type
>     of cottonwood.  In fact there are very few trees even left!!  I
>     have wondered where that trapping party found enough trees to
>     build what buildings they had.  There is know remaining evidence
>     of their camp, so the mystery remains!
>     Steve Banks
>
>         ----- Original Message -----
>         From: Wynn Ormond <mailto:[e-mail]>
>         To: [e-mail]
>         <mailto:[e-mail]>
>         Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 10:26 PM
>         Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse
>
>         Mr Banks
>
>         It has been a while since I read Zenas but I believe all the
>         animals died the mules were just slower about it.  The
>         men carried everything out on their own backs.  Secondly,
>         there is nothing mysterious like chemicals in the trees.
>         There are different types of cottonwoods and the broad leaf
>         has a sweet inner bark the narrow doesn't.
>
>         However dispite Zenas's experience and as I posted before
>         there is plenty of evidnece that this method of wintering
>         horses worked most of the time.
>         Wynn Ormond
>
>
>             ----- Original Message -----
>             From: Steve Banks <mailto:[e-mail]>
>             To: [e-mail]
>             <mailto:[e-mail]>
>             Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 8:58 PM
>             Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse
>
>             Dorothy,
>             Zenas Leonard's account from "Adventures of a Mountain
>             Man:" gives an answer to your question.  They had to stay
>             a winter on the upper Laramie River and this was their
>             experience.  You can read about it starting on page 19 -
>             21.  The cottonwood bark here had a different
>             characteristic from the bark they had been feeding lower
>             downstream on the Laramie River.  Unfortunatly the horses
>             starved because they refused to eat the bark in this
>             winter camp.  Only the mules survived.  I've investigated
>             this with a friend of mine and his opinion was that the
>             bitterness was caused by some mineral that was absorbed in
>             the tree.  There is a lot of a low grade aluminum mineral
>             around the Laramie area and this might be a possibility.
>             For your interest, I have retraced Leonard's route from
>             the mouth of the Laramie River to its source at Chambers
>             Lake at the foot of Cameron Pass in Colorado.  Hope this
>             helps some.
>             Steve Banks
>
>                 ----- Original Message -----
>                 From: DOROTHY MORRIS <mailto:[e-mail]>
>                 To: [e-mail]
>                 <mailto:[e-mail]>
>                 Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 12:57 PM
>                 Subject: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse
>
>                 Can anyone tell me how a Mountain Man took fed his
>                 horse while up at a trapping camp during a Rocky
>                 Mountain Winter?  I hear the horses ate the inner bark
>                 of the cottonwood tree, but how was it gathered and by
>                 whom? Did the horses roam at will to eat and risk
>                 being food for wolves? Were there enough cottonwood
>                 trees?  What else did they eat?  What were the
>                 logistics of this situation?  Anyone know?  Love to
>                 hear from you.
>
>                 DKM
>


- --------------070605010107010601000401
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
  <title></title>
</head>
<body>
I agree w/ Beaverboy on them staying in beaver country, and that many came
from the larger river valley bottoms.  They did trap headwaters, as lots
of places the valleys get very broad and somewhat flatbottomed so water can
slow and beaver dam the areas.  You need to look at weather in the west.
 Winters are right harsh, especially in those nice river 'holes' like Jackson
Hole, and in Idaho's Stanley Basin (like 45 to 60 below zero).  I would guess
that most would be down in the lower river valleys that time of year where
the water was still moving (although I have seen water running in the Salmon
River when it was 30 below...lots of slush ice with it).  Jim Bridger used
to talk about the three seasons in the Rocky Mountains.  Those being July,
August and winter.  As it is now, lots of places in the high country we don't
get wildflowers until June and even sometimes July because they don't like
to come up through several feet of melting snow.  One ski area near here
(n. utah) was bragging last winter about receiving "100-inches in 100 hours"
that being snow.  Not bad for being in the fifth year of drought.<br>
<br>
Sparks<br>
<br>
DOROTHY MORRIS wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
 cite="[e-mail]">
  <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=iso-8859-1">

  <meta content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name="GENERATOR">

  <style></style>
  <div>Dear Mr. Ormand and Mr. Banks,</div>

  <div> </div>

  <div>Thank you both for your information on the Mountain Men's horses that
I  originally requested.  I have learned a great deal. </div>

  <div> </div>

  <div>Now another question and this regards the actual months that a  Mountain Man
spent working his trapping area. Did he go up into the  mountains in Autumn
and remain until Spring or did he only go toward the  springtime? </div>

  <div> </div>

  <div>Dorothy</div>

  <div> </div>

  <div>----- Original Message ----- </div>

  <blockquote dir="ltr"
 style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0,0,0); padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;">

    <div
 style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none;"><b>From:</b>
    <a title="[e-mail]" href="mailto:[e-mail]">Steve
Banks</a> </div>

    <div
 style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none;"><b>To:</b>
    <a title="[e-mail]"
 href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</a>
   </div>

    <div
 style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none;"><b>Sent:</b>
Saturday, June 14, 2003 9:37    AM</div>

    <div
 style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none;"><b>Subject:</b>
Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's    horse</div>

    <div><br>
    </div>

    <div
 style="font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0,0,0); font-family: Verdana;">

    <div><font face="Arial">Mr. Ormond,</font></div>

    <div><font face="Arial">I had to check my source again and I would refer
you to    the following:</font></div>

    <div><font face="Arial">page 21 of the journal - Jan. 8th, paraphrasing,
   "the horses were dead and the men were figuring to pack their mechandize
on    the two mules and themselves"</font></div>

    <div><font face="Arial">page 40 of the journal - April 20th, again the
two mules    are alive but weak and the party stops because they've found
sweet cottonwood    and are allowing the mules to "recruit from their suffering".
I believe    the mules and men did make it back to the mouth of the Laramie
River in    June.</font></div>

    <div><font face="Arial">The opinion I expressed about the cottonwood
trees was    that of a botanist who has spent many years studying the trees
of    Wyoming.  In the area where Zenas spent the winter, as near as anyone
can    tell, there is only one species of cottonwood.  And that provides
the    mystery of why at the downstream area of the river the tree bark was
   edible.  I don't know if in the winter of 1831 that there were two
species of cottonwood growing in that area.  I have been in that area a
 number of times, hunting, fishing etc, and in my limited knowledge of botany,
   have not noticed more than one type of cottonwood.  In fact there are
   very few trees even left!!  I have wondered where that trapping party
   found enough trees to build what buildings they had.  There is know
 remaining evidence of their camp, so the mystery remains!</font></div>

    <div><font face="Arial">Steve Banks </font></div>

    <blockquote dir="ltr"
 style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0,0,0); padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;">

      <div
 style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none;">-----
Original Message ----- </div>

      <div
 style="background: rgb(228,228,228) none repeat scroll 0%; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none;"><b>From:</b>
     <a title="[e-mail]" href="mailto:[e-mail]">Wynn Ormond</a>
     </div>

      <div
 style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none;"><b>To:</b>
      <a title="[e-mail]"
 href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</a>
     </div>

      <div
 style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none;"><b>Sent:</b>
Thursday, June 12, 2003 10:26      PM</div>

      <div
 style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none;"><b>Subject:</b>
Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's      horse</div>

      <div><br>
      </div>

      <div><font face="Arial">Mr Banks </font></div>

      <div> </div>

      <div><font face="Arial">It has been a while since I read Zenas but
I believe      all the animals died the mules were just slower about it.
The      men carried everything out on their own backs.  Secondly, there
is      nothing mysterious like chemicals in the trees.  There are different
     types of cottonwoods and the broad leaf has a sweet inner bark the
   narrow doesn't. </font></div>

      <div> </div>

      <div><font face="Arial">However dispite Zenas's experience and as I
posted      before there is plenty of evidnece that this method of wintering
horses      worked most of the time.</font></div>

      <div><font face="Arial">Wynn Ormond</font></div>

      <div><font face="Arial">  </font></div>

      <blockquote dir="ltr"
 style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0,0,0); padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;">

        <div
 style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none;">-----
Original Message ----- </div>

        <div
 style="background: rgb(228,228,228) none repeat scroll 0%; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none;"><b>From:</b>
       <a title="[e-mail]" href="mailto:[e-mail]">Steve
       Banks</a> </div>

        <div
 style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none;"><b>To:</b>
        <a title="[e-mail]"
 href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</a>
       </div>

        <div
 style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none;"><b>Sent:</b>
Tuesday, June 10, 2003 8:58        PM</div>

        <div
 style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none;"><b>Subject:</b>
Re: MtMan-List: Mountain        Man's horse</div>

        <div><br>
        </div>

        <div><font face="Arial">Dorothy,</font></div>

        <div><font face="Arial">Zenas Leonard's account from "Adventures
of a        Mountain Man:" gives an answer to your question.  They had to
stay a        winter on the upper Laramie River and this was their experience.
You        can read about it starting on page 19 - 21.  The cottonwood bark
here        had a different characteristic from the bark they had been feeding
lower        downstream on the Laramie River.  Unfortunatly the horses starved
       because they refused to eat the bark in this winter camp.  Only the
       mules survived.  I've investigated this with a friend of mine and
his        opinion was that the bitterness was caused by some mineral that
was        absorbed in the tree.  There is a lot of a low grade aluminum
mineral        around the Laramie area and this might be a possibility.
For your        interest, I have retraced Leonard's route from the mouth
of the Laramie        River to its source at Chambers Lake at the foot of
Cameron Pass in        Colorado.  Hope this helps some.</font></div>

        <div><font face="Arial">Steve Banks</font></div>

        <blockquote
 style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0,0,0); padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;">

          <div
 style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none;">-----
Original Message ----- </div>

          <div
 style="background: rgb(228,228,228) none repeat scroll 0%; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none;"><b>From:</b>
         <a title="[e-mail]" href="mailto:[e-mail]">DOROTHY
         MORRIS</a> </div>

          <div
 style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none;"><b>To:</b>
          <a title="[e-mail]"
 href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</a>
         </div>

          <div
 style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none;"><b>Sent:</b>
Sunday, June 08, 2003 12:57          PM</div>

          <div
 style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none;"><b>Subject:</b>
MtMan-List: Mountain Man's          horse</div>

          <div><br>
          </div>

          <div>Can anyone tell me how a Mountain Man took fed his horse while
up          at a trapping camp during a Rocky Mountain Winter?  I hear the
         horses ate the inner bark of the cottonwood tree, but how was it
         gathered and by whom? Did the horses roam at will to eat and risk
being          food for wolves? Were there enough cottonwood trees?
     What else did they eat?  What were the logistics of this          situation?
Anyone know?  Love to hear from you.</div>

          <div> </div>

          <div>DKM</div>
        </blockquote>
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