<DIV>My lovely wife was re-arranging the bookcases the other day </DIV>
<DIV>and she found a couple of duplicates. Both are paperbacks</DIV>
<DIV>in new condition:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>1. Personal narrative of James O. Pattie edited by Richard =
Batman,</DIV>
<DIV> Classics of the fur trade series,</DIV>
<DIV> Mountain Press Publishing....list price: =
14.00</DIV>
<DIV>2. Edward Warren by William Drummond Stewart also by </DIV>
<DIV> Mountain Press Publishing.... list price:=20
15.00</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I would like to get at least 7.00 per book. </DIV>
<DIV>Monies received will be donated to the AMM land Fund. </DIV>
<DIV>Anyone that is interested can contact me off list</DIV>
<DIV>to arrange shipping.</DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 17:17:24 -0800
From: John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re:
Kevin,
My name is John Kramer I hold the rank of Hiveranno in The American
Mountain Men and serve as their Historian. Many years ago I enjoyed 14
days during the rainiest year Philmont had ever known, the following year I
added palms to my Eagle. Now I've got a couple of nephews working on their
Eagle that I hope get to enjoy Philmont someday.
Are you intending full fur trade adventures or hike-on-thru camps like the
old mine where for a day the Scouts would experience how to dig & pan for
gold? There is a broad range of information and perhaps people available
that can provide everything from how-to-build-a-fire, trap-a-beaver, or
pack-a-mule, up to doctoral level history course. A large number of the
AMM have been and/or are active in Scouting. Some have started fur trade
specific Explorer Posts in the past.
There are a lot questions I would need answered to know how best I could
help; I would need to understand some of the parameters which you are
working under and the end goal of the program. It might be more productive
for you to forward a phone number and best times to call; I will call so
you don't need to worry about how long we talk. I will help in any way I
can with resources and contacts.
John...
At 08:19 PM 1/30/03, you wrote:
>I am a backcountry manager at Philmont Scout Ranch in Cimarron, NM.
>Philmont is currently developing new and more accurate living history
>programs for many of its camps. Two of those camps are Fur Trade
>interpretive. I would greatly appreciate any suggestions or research
>topics on this matter.
>
>Thanks,
>Kevin
>
==========================================
John Adams, Second President of the United States: "You have rights
antecedent to all earthly governments; rights that cannot be repealed or
restrained by human laws; rights derived from the Great Legislator of the
Universe." These rights are enshrined in our precious Bill of Rights.
Without them we are essentially slaves - powerless property of the state.
=============================================
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Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 16:57:34 -0700 (MST)
From: amm1616@earthlink.net
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 13:16:01 -0600
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Paul,
I would try Donna at Trails West. She specializes in western amerciana and would be a good place to start. I use her and i think some others on the list, like jim Hardee.
> > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
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Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2003 02:07:58 +0000
From: "Michael Powell" <amm1769@hotmail.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: Attention: Kevin At Philmont
<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>Kevin,</P>
<P>Please e-mail me off list! Have I got a deal for you that may prove to be mutually advantageous. <A href="mailto:amm1769@hotmail.com">amm1769@hotmail.com</A></P>
<P>Thanks,</P>
<P>Mike Powell <BR><BR><BR></P>
<DIV>AMM #1769 </DIV>POISON RIVER PARTY
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>"Ride, Ride, Ride"
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>"Aux Aliments du Pays"!
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Add photos to your e-mail with <a href="http://g.msn.com/8HMXENUS/2746">MSN 8.</a> Get 2 months FREE*.</html>
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Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 19:12:05 -0700 (MST)
From: <beaverboy@sofast.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: Pecatonica Kits and .54 twists
Dear List,
I sold my beaver pelts and did better than I expected thus I am able
to move up in the world from fusee to rifle! Or at least move out in range.
Does anyone have any comments concerning Pecatonica River flintlock
rifle kits? Or any other high quality kits. I'm looking for a good .54
swamped barrel rifle kit. Pecatonica River looks pretty good to me.
I've also heard that a 1-72" or 1-80" twist is the best for the .54
with heavy powder loads (100-120grs). Any comments about that?
I'm a poor trapper so this will be my one and only flintlock rifle so
I need to make the right choice.
I appreciate your advice and knowledge and thank you in advance.
beaverboy
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2003 02:11:34 +0000
From: "Michael Powell" <amm1769@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re:
<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P>Kevin,</P>
<P>Likewise, I would love to help you out.</P>
<P>Mike Powell #AMM 1769<BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV><BR><BR><BR>
<DIV>AMM #1769 </DIV>POISON RIVER PARTY
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>"Ride, Ride, Ride"
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>"Aux Aliments du Pays"!
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: John Kramer <KRAMER@KRAMERIZE.COM>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Help STOP SPAM with <a href="http://g.msn.com/8HMXENUS/2731">the new MSN 8 </a> and get 2 months FREE*</html>
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Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 22:49:52 EST
From: LivingInThePast@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 13:16:01 -0600
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In a message dated 1/31/2003 11:19:13 AM Pacific Standard Time,
pwjones@myexcel.com writes:
> volumes with many first editions, etc.
Pablo, I have a buddy who collects 1st Editions of all types. Contact me
offlist and I'll give you his info. Barney
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT COLOR="#000080" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B>In a message dated 1/31/2003 11:19:13 AM Pacific Standard Time, pwjones@myexcel.com writes:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">volumes with many first editions, etc.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000080" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B><BR>
Pablo, I have a buddy who collects 1st Editions of all types. Contact me offlist and I'll give you his info. Barney</B></FONT></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 20:03:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Branson <d49_mbranson@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pecatonica Kits and .54 twists
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beaverboy@sofast.net wrote:Dear List,
I sold my beaver pelts and did better than I expected thus I am able
to move up in the world from fusee to rifle! Or at least move out in range.
Does anyone have any comments concerning Pecatonica River flintlock
rifle kits? Or any other high quality kits. I'm looking for a good .54
swamped barrel rifle kit. Pecatonica River looks pretty good to me.
I've also heard that a 1-72" or 1-80" twist is the best for the .54
with heavy powder loads (100-120grs). Any comments about that?
I'm a poor trapper so this will be my one and only flintlock rifle so
I need to make the right choice.
I appreciate your advice and knowledge and thank you in advance.
beaverboy
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.htmlSir: I don't know what you want to spend. I will just talk quality. I would really seriously suggest you buy one of the Chambers rifle kits. Pecatonica usually uses a softer grade of red maple. Chambers kits are made from the best components money can buy : hard rock maple pre-turned stocks, siler or chambers locks, good brass hardware, Getz swamped barrels 42" long .54 cal, c-weight guns. They balance well when assembled. They come pre-shaped and partially inletted. If you are a little handy with tools you can turn it into a fine plain ky style rifle. You can make the lancaster kit look like the contract rifle of 1792. Those were all built in Lancaster county by several different top quality builders: Dickert, Gumpf, etc. The 1792 contract rifles also look very similiar to the type B late pattern lancaster english trade rifles. Many of these were in the western territories. I hope this helps you. I would also suggest you buy: William buchele's book re-creating the Penn. long rifle.
- ---------------------------------
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Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now
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<P>
<P> <B><I>beaverboy@sofast.net</I></B> wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">Dear List,<BR>I sold my beaver pelts and did better than I expected thus I am able<BR>to move up in the world from fusee to rifle! Or at least move out in range.<BR>Does anyone have any comments concerning Pecatonica River flintlock<BR>rifle kits? Or any other high quality kits. I'm looking for a good .54<BR>swamped barrel rifle kit. Pecatonica River looks pretty good to me.<BR>I've also heard that a 1-72" or 1-80" twist is the best for the .54<BR>with heavy powder loads (100-120grs). Any comments about that?<BR>I'm a poor trapper so this will be my one and only flintlock rifle so<BR>I need to make the right choice.<BR>I appreciate your advice and knowledge and thank you in advance.<BR>beaverboy<BR><BR><BR><BR>----------------------<BR>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html</BLOCKQUOTE>Sir: I don't know what you want to spend. I will just talk quality. I would really seriously suggest you buy one of the Chambers rifle kits. Pecatonica usually uses a softer grade of red maple. Chambers kits are made from the best components money can buy : hard rock maple pre-turned stocks, siler or chambers locks, good brass hardware, Getz swamped barrels 42" long .54 cal, c-weight guns. They balance well when assembled. They come pre-shaped and partially inletted. If you are a little handy with tools you can turn it into a fine plain ky style rifle. You can make the lancaster kit look like the contract rifle of 1792. Those were all built in Lancaster county by several different top quality builders: Dickert, Gumpf, etc. The 1792 contract rifles also look very similiar to the type B late pattern lancaster english trade rifles. Many of these were in the western territories. I hope this helps you. I would also suggest you buy: William buchele's book re-creating the Penn. long rifle. <p><br><hr size=1>Do you Yahoo!?<br>
<a href="http://rd.yahoo.com/mail/mailsig/*http://mailplus.yahoo.com">Yahoo! Mail Plus</a> - Powerful. Affordable. <a href="http://rd.yahoo.com/mail/mailsig/*http://mailplus.yahoo.com">Sign up now</a>
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Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 03:02:32 EST
From: Mandan1727@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pecatonica Kits and .54 twists
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Beaverboy, cabin creek muzzleloading makes some nice guns and
accouterments you might give them a try. They also have a catalog you can
get for a price. Heres there website <A HREF="http://www.cabincreek.net/index.html">Cabin Creek Muzzleloading</A>
About barrel twists usually the bigger the bore the straighter the twist, and
smaller the bore the twist can be tighter...........but i'm not totally
certain on this. For a .54 cal the twist can be 1:48" to a 1:70" range
for round ball i'd chose 1:70"
Sincerely,
Daniel "Mandan" Duncan
AMM#1727
Missouri Valley Party
Missouri/Iowa Brigade
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<BR> Beaverboy, cabin creek muzzleloading makes some nice guns and accouterments you might give them a try. They also have a catalog you can get for a price. Heres there website <A HREF="http://www.cabincreek.net/index.html">Cabin Creek Muzzleloading</A>
<BR>About barrel twists usually the bigger the bore the straighter the twist, and smaller the bore the twist can be tighter...........but i'm not totally certain on this. For a .54 cal the twist can be 1:48" to a 1:70" range for round ball i'd chose 1:70"
<BR> Sincerely,
<BR>
<BR>Daniel "Mandan" Duncan
<BR>AMM#1727
<BR>Missouri Valley Party
<BR>Missouri/Iowa Brigade</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 06:27:10 -0700 (MST)
From: <beaverboy@sofast.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pecatonica Kits and .54 twists
>Daniel,
That is what I'm hearing on twist as well. The bigger the bore the
slower the twist. Chambers does have some nice kits and I will check out
the Cabin Creek web page too.
Thankyou,
bb
> Beaverboy, cabin creek muzzleloading makes some nice
> guns and
> accouterments you might give them a try. They also have a catalog you
> can get for a price. Heres there website <A
> HREF="http://www.cabincreek.net/index.html">Cabin Creek
> Muzzleloading</A> About barrel twists usually the bigger the bore the
> straighter the twist, and smaller the bore the twist can be
> tighter...........but i'm not totally certain on this. For a .54
> cal the twist can be 1:48" to a 1:70" range for round ball i'd
> chose 1:70"
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Daniel "Mandan" Duncan
> AMM#1727
> Missouri Valley Party
> Missouri/Iowa Brigade
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Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 11:37:26 -0800
From: "roger lahti" <amm1719@charter.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pecatonica Kits and .54 twists
http://www.cybercom.net/~bconner/rndball.html
If you would care to go to the above link you will come to a neat little
math program that will calculate any number of items related to round balls
including the minimum rate of twist for a particular round ball shot at a
certain velocity.
My opinion, but for a .54 even though you might get away with it I would not
use a twist rate as slow as 1-48. I think you will get much better
performance from rates starting at 1-56 and slower. 1-48 seems to be a rate
of twist that T/C adopted with their first "Hawkens" to accommodate both
round ball and conicals. It does both poorly compared to a barrel rifled for
a particular projectile.
YMOS
Capt. Lahti'
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Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 13:22:34 -0500
From: hawknest4@juno.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pecatonica Kits and .54 twists
beaver boy
they have good kits and furnish most of the other suppliers----IE track
and golden age and mountain state --they also furnish all the parts and
do what they call 95% inletting for a slight charge---if you have not
built several guns then this will help and give you a finished gun in the
shortest time---still some work required like breaching the barrel
cutting sights and installing underlugs and drilling pins and screws.
inletting is minimimal but will require some cleanup ---
tell mr dick greenside i said hello and give you some good wood---
i buy a lot of wood from him---also danny caywood gets uncut blanks from
him as well as others---he has good uncut wood blanks---
as far as the twist I like a faster twist than a 1-70-like a 1-66 is
what i normally use and it has a accuracy load from 78 gr fffg to 120 gr
fffg ao you see it is not real powser critical with the faster twist---a
1-48 on the other hand has a accuracy loak of 55gr fffg to about 88 gr of
fffg and the slow twist of 1-70 seems to like 2f more than it likes 3f
and powder charges are between 95gr ffg to 150 gr of ffg---personally i
would go with the round bottom rifleings not the sq ones as it seems to
not be as critical to the patch and ball combination and is easier to
