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From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #1130 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Thursday, January 2 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1130 In this issue: -áááááá MtMan-List: Message-ID: <3E1219F7@bearmail.berkeley.edu> -áááááá MtMan-List: Fur & leather damage -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Message-ID: <3E1219F7@bearmail.berkeley.edu> -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Message-ID: <3E1219F7@bearmail.berkeley.edu> -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Message-ID: <3E1219F7@bearmail.berkeley.edu> -áááááá MtMan-List: Re Fur-eating Beetles -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re Fur-eating Beetles -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re Fur-eating Beetles -áááááá MtMan-List: Need some help getting some items! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 09:25:04 -0800 From: mrrogers <mrrogers@uclink.berkeley.edu> Subject: MtMan-List: Message-ID: <3E1219F7@bearmail.berkeley.edu> This is a practical question, not research. Hope that's OK. The Short Story: Has anyone ever found bugs in their furs or leather after having them stored for a long time? I've come back from college for semester break to find some short, brown oval bugs that look like larvae of some kind crawling in a few pieces of fur. I had carefully packed them away in my closet. If anyone has suggestions on how to get rid of them, I would greatly appreciate it. The Long story: When I left for college, I carefully packed away all of my mountain man stuff in packing boxes in my closet. Everything was clean and dry. I also have an entomology collection in display cases, so I added mothballs to the cases (pretty standard way of warding off pests). When I came home last year at Christmas, the mothballs in the insect collection had sublimated and there were these small bugs in the case and they had been eating some of the insects. I cleaned all of the "infected" specimens out of the cases and threw them away. I cleaned the cases and put an ample amount of mothballs in the cases. Then I started going through the mountain man stuff. The bugs were in there too. I cleaned off everything and tried to eliminate all bugs. Items that were thick with bugs and not too precious I threw out. When I was sure everything was clean, I repacked everything and put it away. I left an open box of mothballs in the closet. I came home for break this year and even though there are still mothballs in the insect collection and in the box in the closet, the bugs are back. It seems to me that they like chitin, because they are in things like deer tails, coyote fur, and they've even been eating the plates off a turtle shell (and eating insect exoskeletons too). It doesn't appear thet they're eating leather yet, but I want to stop them before that happens. They are tan to brown, oval shaped, less than a quarter of an inch. They seem segmented like a short fat meal worm and look a bit like a small, brown sow bug (rolly-polly). I don't think merely cleaning everything does the trick because if I miss a couple, they come back. I want to kill them without damaging my furs and hides. Mothballs obviously don't repel them. I live in central Missouri if geography helps. Any help would be appreciated. THANKS!! Mat - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 10:49:25 -0700 From: "Gene Hickman" <ghickman9@attbi.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Fur & leather damage Mat, Sound like those are dermestid beetle larva. They are related to a common group of carrion beetles, same as they use to clean skulls. You need to have the napha or mothballs right in with the fur and then preferable pack your stuff in a sealed plastic box. You probably already have lots of eggs and small pupae in your hides. Shaking or brushing them off is hard to do and you'll always have some left. They are also hard to eliminate once you get them in the house. They'll really go after feathers and fur. First thing you'll notice is fur pulling or falling out of hides. I use lots of borax in preparing hides vs.salt. This is also a deterrent. When they start munching on the borax is kills them. I have not had them eat smoked braintan. I think it they are smoked enough it repels them. That said I should probably go check my braintan. Good Luck. Bead Shooter - ----- Original Message ----- From: "mrrogers" <mrrogers@uclink.berkeley.edu> ...Has anyone ever found bugs in their furs or leather after having them stored ..I've come back from college for semester break to find some short, brown oval bugs that look like larvae of some kind crawling in a few pieces of fur...THANKS!! Mat - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 14:47:32 EST From: ThisOldFox@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Message-ID: <3E1219F7@bearmail.berkeley.edu> >I've come back from college for semester break to find some >short, brown oval bugs that look like larvae of some kind crawling in a few >pieces of fur. Mat, While you have an immediate problem, you will also have a future problem this probably will be worse. Sometime this spring, your house will be filled with tiny little moths which will search out suitable materials to replicate the process over again. I ended up getting rid of all my hide and horn material and fumigating. Luckily it was confined to my garage, but some of the critters did get into the house and re-appeared again for several years before they were totally gone. I had some skullcaps with the antlers and some fur still attached, so it was localized. I believe that taxidermists rub borax into their mounts for this purpose. Dave Kanger - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 21:19:07 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Branson <d49_mbranson@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Message-ID: <3E1219F7@bearmail.berkeley.edu> - --0-494085348-1041311947=:90157 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Matt: The other letter writer is correct, you have what we commonly call carcass beetles. The feed on dead things. nature takes care of death in such a way so the world is not littered with dead carcasses from all those centuries. We have them. They like to eat my wife's rawhide. They will do a number on feathers and fur. Use borax, sealed boxes, mothballs, what ever you can. Good luck. We still occasionally find a few and we have been fighting it for over 15 years. Right when we think we have killed them all why a couple will show up in the oddest of places in our house. ThisOldFox@aol.com wrote:>I've come back from college for semester break to find some >short, brown oval bugs that look like larvae of some kind crawling in a few >pieces of fur. Mat, While you have an immediate problem, you will also have a future problem this probably will be worse. Sometime this spring, your house will be filled with tiny little moths which will search out suitable materials to replicate the process over again. I ended up getting rid of all my hide and horn material and fumigating. Luckily it was confined to my garage, but some of the critters did get into the house and re-appeared again for several years before they were totally gone. I had some skullcaps with the antlers and some fur still attached, so it was localized. I believe that taxidermists rub borax into their mounts for this purpose. Dave Kanger - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now - --0-494085348-1041311947=:90157 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Matt: The other letter writer is correct, you have what we commonly call carcass beetles. The feed on dead things. nature takes care of death in such a way so the world is not littered with dead carcasses from all those centuries. We have them. They like to eat my wife's rawhide. They will do a number on feathers and fur. Use borax, sealed boxes, mothballs, what ever you can. Good luck. We still occasionally find a few and we have been fighting it for over 15 years. Right when we think we have killed them all why a couple will show up in the oddest of places in our house. ThisOldFox@aol.com wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">>I've come back from college for semester break to find some >short, brown oval bugs that look like larvae of some kind crawling in a few >pieces of fur. Mat, While you have an immediate problem, you will also have a future problem this probably will be worse. Sometime this spring, your house will be filled with tiny little moths which will search out suitable materials to replicate the process over again. I ended up getting rid of all my hide and horn material and fumigating. Luckily it was confined to my garage, but some of the critters did get into the house and re-appeared again for several years before they were totally gone. I had some skullcaps with the antlers and some fur still attached, so it was localized. I believe that taxidermists rub borax into their mounts for this purpose. Dave Kanger ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html</BLOCKQUOTE> <hr size=1>Do you Yahoo!? <a href="http://rd.yahoo.com/mail/mailsig/*http://mailplus.yahoo.com">Yahoo! Mail Plus</a> - Powerful. Affordable. <a href="http://rd.yahoo.com/mail/mailsig/*http://mailplus.yahoo.com">Sign up now</a> - --0-494085348-1041311947=:90157-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 02:59:53 -0800 (PST) From: Larson Harsey <camperfox428@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Message-ID: <3E1219F7@bearmail.berkeley.edu> I know what you are going through. I had a house infected with clothes moths, anything made of natural fibers they will eat. Small beetles and even clothes moths are hard (somethimes very hard) to get rid of. An old entomologly professor told my class about the beetles that distroy bug collections that are not protected. He explained that mothballs (naptha) will not kill the little buggers, only make some of them go somewhere else (not all of them). Look for "moth crystals" (paradichlorobenzene as the active ingredient) at you grocery or drug store - this stuff will kill them. This is what he used in the schools collection and I put some in my bug collection a couple of times each year (it's been ok for twentyfive years). I also store some feathers with a few crystals around in the container. I've found clothes moths in open rice cartons, Milk Bone boxes, and crackers that have been left in the back of the cabinet. Beetles and moths are hard to stop, they just keep looking for a food source and when they find one, anywhere, they go to town making babies. Use zip-lock bags, or anything that seals to keep you things in, tied up new trash bags with some crystals in different levels. You'll need to keep putting crystals in a couple of times each year for protection. good luck - I hate the little buggers, but they're only doing their job. have a Happy New Year - - --- Michael Branson <d49_mbranson@yahoo.com> wrote: > > Matt: > The other letter writer is correct, you have what we commonly call > carcass beetles. The feed on dead things. nature takes care of > death in such a way so the world is not littered with dead > carcasses from all those centuries. We have them. They like to eat > my wife's rawhide. They will do a number on feathers and fur. Use > borax, sealed boxes, mothballs, what ever you can. Good luck. We > still occasionally find a few and we have been fighting it for over > 15 years. Right when we think we have killed them all why a couple > will show up in the oddest of places in our house. > ThisOldFox@aol.com wrote:>I've come back from college for semester > break to find some > >short, brown oval bugs that look like larvae of some kind crawling > in a few > >pieces of fur. > > Mat, > > While you have an immediate problem, you will also have a future > problem this > probably will be worse. Sometime this spring, your house will be > filled with > tiny little moths which will search out suitable materials to > replicate the > process over again. I ended up getting rid of all my hide and horn > material > and fumigating. Luckily it was confined to my garage, but some of > the > critters did get into the house and re-appeared again for several > years > before they were totally gone. I had some skullcaps with the > antlers and > some fur still attached, so it was localized. > > I believe that taxidermists rub borax into their mounts for this > purpose. > > Dave Kanger > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 13:05:25 -0800 From: Pat Quilter <pat_quilter@qscaudio.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Re Fur-eating Beetles The dreaded "Miller Moths" (as my Mom used to call them). Small fluttery moths that erupt at certain times of the year (here in Calif). Later, on undisturbed furs and wool, one finds tell-tale deposits that look like granuated grey salt, with holes eaten in wool and fur eaten away until the hair falls out. I've never actually caught the little devils at work, but the evidence is plain to see. They do not seem to get into stuff I use frequently, nor have they attacked any plain leather or brain-tan, but soft cries of dismay can be heard when I look into un-opened cupboards, move boxes around, or examine things that have sat in the back room too long. Overall, they have caused at least as much of a problem as mildew (which has attacked regular leather, but so far, not brain tan). I do believe the smoking of brain tan repels a lot of critters. I have no experience to report regarding brain tan furs. Overall, I would say the lesson is that traditional period materials give good service in constant use, but do not necessarily have a long shelf life or survive long periods of disuse - this would not have been a typical usage pattern. Ruefully submitted Pat Quilter - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 22:50:37 -0700 (MST) From: <beaverboy@sofast.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re Fur-eating Beetles Dear List, Anyone who has dead things laying around long enough will get bug infestation sooner or later. (Or mice problems) I actually spray my "raw" dried hooped beaver, both sides, with a good bug spray. Always test a section first to make sure it doesn't turn it orange or pink or melt it. Spray it lightly on both sides as needed. That will kill them little buggers! I don't recommend this for furs that will be worn however. Cold storage is the modern method to prevent bug damage. I vacuum pack all my turkey feathers then freeze till I need them. I imagine a tanned fur might get freezer burned in a bad freezer. I know we kept raw, dried pelts in a cold locker vault for two years with nothing more than yellowing to show for it but not everyone can own a cold storage locker. My skins, robe and other clothing I use enough or check often enough to avoid bugs getting into them. I check them (pick them up and shake them out and move them) once, sometimes twice a week, the same time I check my freezers to make sure they haven't quit. I have a checklist on the freezers that show me the contents of said freezers and the date I last checked them. Most modern professionally tanned furs are so loaded with chemicals that I have never had a bug eat one yet. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 22:50:37 -0700 (MST) From: <beaverboy@sofast.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re Fur-eating Beetles Dear List, Anyone who has dead things laying around long enough will get bug infestation sooner or later. (Or mice problems) I actually spray my "raw" dried hooped beaver, both sides, with a good bug spray. Always test a section first to make sure it doesn't turn it orange or pink or melt it. Spray it lightly on both sides as needed. That will kill them little buggers! I don't recommend this for furs that will be worn however. Cold storage is the modern method to prevent bug damage. I vacuum pack all my turkey feathers then freeze till I need them. I imagine a tanned fur might get freezer burned in a bad freezer. I know we kept raw, dried pelts in a cold locker vault for two years with nothing more than yellowing to show for it but not everyone can own a cold storage locker. My skins, robe and other clothing I use enough or check often enough to avoid bugs getting into them. I check them (pick them up and shake them out and move them) once, sometimes twice a week, the same time I check my freezers to make sure they haven't quit. I have a checklist on the freezers that show me the contents of said freezers and the date I last checked them. Most modern professionally tanned furs are so loaded with chemicals that I have never had a bug eat one yet. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 19:00:17 EST From: Traphand@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Need some help getting some items! - --part1_146.6b4f993.2b462c91_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit First, a Happy New Year to you all! Second, I'm in the process of procuring items to use in the decorating of a period type restaurant. The era is 1800-1850, the style is aimed mostly in the direction of trapper, mountain man, etc. Basically, since we all started off in buckskinning, you might have in your possession some items that you aren't using and would like to sell for a reasonable price. The opening of the restaurant will be mid-February, so we are in a bit of a hurry. Some items we're looking for would be: Wall hangers --- snow shoes, traps, pelts, powder horns, shooting bags, pack baskets, etc. Rifles -- he's not looking for great shootable guns. Got a gun with a cracked stock, over-use and looking sorta nasty, CVA's, non-shootable guns, etc. these would all fit the bill as wall hangers we could use. Military -- Cartridge Boxes, etc. Also looking for Indian type items: shields, lances, pack baskets, bows, arrows, etc. Basically anything that would look good on a wall. If you have a digital camera, send me some photos as well as how much you are asking. If no camera is available, send me a note (Traphand@aol.com) or call me (636-349-0855 or 314-267-3466) and we'll talk. If you're local (we're on the outskirts of St. Louis, MO) we could meet up somewhere. Thanks for the help! Traphand Rick Petzoldt Traphand@aol.com - --part1_146.6b4f993.2b462c91_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML>First, a Happy New Year to you all! Second, I'm in the process of procuring items to use in the decorating of a period type restaurant. The era is 1800-1850, the style is aimed mostly in the direction of trapper, mountain man, etc. Basically, since we all started off in buckskinning, you might have in your possession some items that you aren't using and would like to sell for a reasonable price. The opening of the restaurant will be mid-February, so we are in a bit of a hurry. Some items we're looking for would be: Wall hangers --- snow shoes, traps, pelts, powder horns, shooting bags, pack baskets, etc. Rifles -- he's not looking for great shootable guns. Got a gun with a cracked stock, over-use and looking sorta nasty, CVA's, non-shootable guns, etc. these would all fit the bill as wall hangers we could use. Military -- Cartridge Boxes, etc. Also looking for Indian type items: shields, lances, pack baskets, bows, arrows, etc. Basically anything that would look good on a wall. If you have a digital camera, send me some photos as well as how much you are asking. If no camera is available, send me a note (Traphand@aol.com) or call me (636-349-0855 or 314-267-3466) and we'll talk. If you're local (we're on the outskirts of St. Louis, MO) we could meet up somewhere. Thanks for the help! Traphand Rick Petzoldt Traphand@aol.com </HTML> - --part1_146.6b4f993.2b462c91_boundary-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #1130 ******************************** - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.