ftp.xmission.com/2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar/ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/hist_text/archive/v01.n113

Internet Message Format | 1998-07-30 | 42KB

From: [e-mail] (hist_text-digest)
To: [e-mail]
Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #113
Reply-To: hist_text
Sender: [e-mail]
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: bulk


hist_text-digest        Thursday, July 30 1998        Volume 01 : Number 113




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 13:39:31 -0700
From: Roger Lahti <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: wantabee wants to make loin cloth

Pearce:

I'm surprised that no one took on your last question as to whether its OK with
the AMM to take on the persona of a 1700's long hunter. I am a bit reluctant to
speak for the whole organization but I will tell you what I think.

I am an old hand at buckskinning and a new member to AMM. Though my kit and
caboodle are probably more eastern than what has been popularly considered the
dress and gear of a Rocky Mt. Fur Trapper, I have not met with any clothing
police at any of the AMM functions I've been privileged to attend. I have
discussed my gear and clothing with my brigade boshway and my sponsors and none
had a problem with why I choose to dress and carry on the way I do.

Though I don't have any great amount of data to back it up with, my impression
and my gut feeling says that the western fur trapper of the 1800's was more
influenced by the eastern longhunter of the 1700's and 1800's than is at first
admitted by most serious practitioners of the "game" we are playing. Consider
that the skilled woodsmen being recruited for expeditions into the Rockies'
were from the stock and cadre of frontiersmen living on the edge of American
civilization. They would have learned their skills and traditions from their
longhunter fathers and uncles. Their firearms were the long guns and foulers of
there fathers and weapons left over from the last war.

If one looks closely to what little visual evidence is left to us (in the form
of Millers' paintings and sketches) one will recognize the great coat, the
hunting frock, the long shirt, the knee britches, knee socks and pucker toe
mocs' of the eastern hunter. This is not the only picture that is painted of
these western mt. men but it does show that these fashions of dress were still
in use quit late in the "Rendezvous Era". What it says to me is that there was
quit a diversity of styles worn during that time and not necessarily what we
have come to expect as correct for the period.

Another interesting tid-bit comes to us from the journals of the Corps of
Discovery and early expeditions like the Wilson Price Hunt Party that went to
the Pacific in 1810-1811. Both groups reported running into small groups of
(long) hunters and adventurers either heading out to the mountains even before
L and C made it to St. Louis and coming home from the mountains in 1811 while
the Wilson Price Hunt party were making their way west. Infact, Mr. Hunt hired
a group of three and a group of two Hunters that were coming out of the
mountains and got them to turn west again with him since he had such a hard
time finding skilled and responsible hunters/frontiersmen in St. Louis as he
was getting the original party together. I would not think it unreasonable to
refer to these several men that he hired on the trail as the "Classic Long
Hunter" of the east having gone west.

So when at a western rendezvous, claim to be a woods runner fresh from the
hills of Kentucky and let the clothing police be damned! I prefer a breech
clout of light weight wool over one of linen and long enough to pass through
the neither world and not so long as to hinder the motion of my legs. The thick
leather thong around the waist works to keep up clout and leggings of wool or
leather. I like a large loose pullover shirt that will come almost to my knees.
A sash or leather belt and some simple center seam, side seam, or pucker-toe
mocs will make you right in style. . John Colter got by with a lot less! A
sassy head scarf and you are some 'punkin', WAUGH!!

Hope this was of help to you. Whatever you do, try to do it right. If you don't
get it right, don't kill yourself over it cause its only a game. I remain...

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'



Pearce Gardner wrote:

> I figure in order to start doing this mountain man thing, the first article
> of clothing should be a loin cloth.  what does everyone recommend, big
> question, what size and weight of cloth, and what kind of belt or waist
> strap to hold it on with?  I figure my persona is 1750's Virginia mountain
> longhunter.  Is this persona acceptable to AMA?  Any help and or advice in
> this matter is greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks for all your help in this matter.
>
> Gardner

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 15:45:32 -0500 (CDT)
From: "S. Gilbert" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Mtn-Man: Introduction and request for help

Hello the camp.

    I have been lurking for a bit now and tried once earlier to make
my presence known, without much success(posting problems).
    My name is Susan Gilbert, aka She Has Old Hands.  I've been
interested in and researching women in colonial and frontier America for
about 8 years.  I do presentations for the local schools on the daily
lives of 2 of my ancestors, Annie Night-born, a Cherokee mid-wife and yarb
woman and Matilda McFarland Clayton, wife of a trapper and cartographer
named John Wesley Clayton.  My presentations are done in character as
either one of these women and I have learned many of the "goodwife" skills
necessary to run a house and feed and cloth a family in the period they
lived. I never thought of my presentations as "Living History" until
someone who saw me used the term to describe what I do.
    2 years ago I stumbled across a Voo at Ushers Ferry, in Iowa, and
was completely captivated.  I would love to get involved but I have an
unusual problem.
    I'm a married woman who's husband is only mildly interested in
this area.  Brian is very supportive of my interest and has allowed me to
drag him all over our area in search of gear and people to interview, but
feels there is no place for him. He is not interested in firearms,
trapping, or any of the other things that occupy you menfolk, other than
as a spectator.  He is a videographer, photographer, astronomer and Alpha
computer geek.
    So how does a woman involve an only marginally interested husband
in the lifestyle?  You who had to coax a hesitant wife might be able to
give me some hints, I hope.
    I have enjoyed this group very much and hope to be much more
involved now that I mustered my courage and finally said hello.

Thank you for your attention and any help you can offer.

Your humble servant,
She Has Old Hands

Susan Gilbert
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 14:51:30 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Charlie P. Webb)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Attention Lanney R

Lanney,
I would be happy to forward you copies of the news letters
when completed. I had full intention of doing so, but "Buggs
Boys" must have gotten into my reply finger, you know the
rest of the story I hit delete rather than reply.  Would you be
so kind as to re-post your snail-mail address to me. Sorry for
my error, will try to do better in the future.  Thank you for
your efforts.

Respectfully,
Charlie Webb
[e-mail]

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 15:58:35 -0500
From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pilgrim outfit

Charlie
Thanks for the kind words.  I would be pleased and honored if you or anyone
else used my letter to Kirk Mill in the manner you described.
Lanney Ratcliff
AMM #1585
- -----Original Message-----
From: Charlie P. Webb <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Thursday, July 30, 1998 11:01 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pilgrim outfit


>
>On Wed, 29 Jul 1998 18:03:11 -0500 "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
>writes:
>>Kirk
>>I have given the same advice to numerous pilgrims.
>>
>>
>Lanney,
>I believe your letter of advice to new comers is excellent,
>possibly the best I have ever read. I would like to beg your
>permission to reprint it in our local Fremont Trappers,
>Monthly Report and the Colorado Springs Muzzle Loaders
>Inc. Mountain Man Monthly news letters.  The Fremont
>Trappers of Canon City Colorado are a small family oriented
>group of about 30 families, and The Colorado Springs club
>is  composed of some 80 families.  I believe that many
>new folks to Buckskinning/living history would benefit from
>reading  your "advise letter".  If you don't mind my using
>your letter, I and others certainly will appreciate it.
>feel free to contact me "off list".
>
>Respectfully,
>Old Coyote
>Aka Charlie  Webb                [e-mail]
>
>
>
>_____________________________________________________________________
>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
>Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 16:06:29 -0500
From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: wantabee wants to make loin cloth

You are exactly right, Capt, plus you make a pretty good copper pot.  The
one I bought from you in Pierre's Hole has been the object of much
admiration and envy by all who have seen it.  I wouldn't mind having another
one, only 3 or 4 times more capacity---a
little taller and a good bit larger diameter.
Lanney Ratcliff  #1585
[e-mail]
- -----Original Message-----
From: Roger Lahti <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Thursday, July 30, 1998 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: wantabee wants to make loin cloth


>Pearce:
>
>I'm surprised that no one took on your last question as to whether its OK
with
>the AMM to take on the persona of a 1700's long hunter. I am a bit
reluctant to
>speak for the whole organization but I will tell you what I think.
>
>I am an old hand at buckskinning and a new member to AMM. Though my kit and
>caboodle are probably more eastern than what has been popularly considered
the
>dress and gear of a Rocky Mt. Fur Trapper, I have not met with any clothing
>police at any of the AMM functions I've been privileged to attend. I have
>discussed my gear and clothing with my brigade boshway and my sponsors and
none
>had a problem with why I choose to dress and carry on the way I do.
>
>Though I don't have any great amount of data to back it up with, my
impression
>and my gut feeling says that the western fur trapper of the 1800's was more
>influenced by the eastern longhunter of the 1700's and 1800's than is at
first
>admitted by most serious practitioners of the "game" we are playing.
Consider
>that the skilled woodsmen being recruited for expeditions into the Rockies'
>were from the stock and cadre of frontiersmen living on the edge of
American
>civilization. They would have learned their skills and traditions from
their
>longhunter fathers and uncles. Their firearms were the long guns and
foulers of
>there fathers and weapons left over from the last war.
>
>If one looks closely to what little visual evidence is left to us (in the
form
>of Millers' paintings and sketches) one will recognize the great coat, the
>hunting frock, the long shirt, the knee britches, knee socks and pucker toe
>mocs' of the eastern hunter. This is not the only picture that is painted
of
>these western mt. men but it does show that these fashions of dress were
still
>in use quit late in the "Rendezvous Era". What it says to me is that there
was
>quit a diversity of styles worn during that time and not necessarily what
we
>have come to expect as correct for the period.
>
>Another interesting tid-bit comes to us from the journals of the Corps of
>Discovery and early expeditions like the Wilson Price Hunt Party that went
to
>the Pacific in 1810-1811. Both groups reported running into small groups of
>(long) hunters and adventurers either heading out to the mountains even
before
>L and C made it to St. Louis and coming home from the mountains in 1811
while
>the Wilson Price Hunt party were making their way west. Infact, Mr. Hunt
hired
>a group of three and a group of two Hunters that were coming out of the
>mountains and got them to turn west again with him since he had such a hard
>time finding skilled and responsible hunters/frontiersmen in St. Louis as
he
>was getting the original party together. I would not think it unreasonable
to
>refer to these several men that he hired on the trail as the "Classic Long
>Hunter" of the east having gone west.
>
>So when at a western rendezvous, claim to be a woods runner fresh from the
>hills of Kentucky and let the clothing police be damned! I prefer a breech
>clout of light weight wool over one of linen and long enough to pass
through
>the neither world and not so long as to hinder the motion of my legs. The
thick
>leather thong around the waist works to keep up clout and leggings of wool
or
>leather. I like a large loose pullover shirt that will come almost to my
knees.
>A sash or leather belt and some simple center seam, side seam, or
pucker-toe
>mocs will make you right in style. . John Colter got by with a lot less! A
>sassy head scarf and you are some 'punkin', WAUGH!!
>
>Hope this was of help to you. Whatever you do, try to do it right. If you
don't
>get it right, don't kill yourself over it cause its only a game. I
remain...
>
>YMOS
>Capt. Lahti'
>
>
>
>Pearce Gardner wrote:
>
>> I figure in order to start doing this mountain man thing, the first
article
>> of clothing should be a loin cloth.  what does everyone recommend, big
>> question, what size and weight of cloth, and what kind of belt or waist
>> strap to hold it on with?  I figure my persona is 1750's Virginia
mountain
>> longhunter.  Is this persona acceptable to AMA?  Any help and or advice
in
>> this matter is greatly appreciated.
>>
>> Thanks for all your help in this matter.
>>
>> Gardner
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 14:05:51 -0700
From: Roger Lahti <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: brain tan pants

Kirk:

Just the very article I refer to but I don't subscribe to that rag and so I
can't share what he wrote. I can get it from the source like I did when he was
putting the article together a year or so ago. At the time I was not
particularly interested in using the technique but I can see that there is a
need here for the basic idea and I'm sure Tom won't mind now that he has had the
original article published. If you wish to share the gist of the article with
the folks here on the list, please proceed. Otherwise I will write something up
on it next week.

I remain...
YMOS
Capt. Lahti'

Mill, Kirk wrote:

> Mr. Crooks wrote an article on just that in the April97 issue of
> Muzzleblasts.
>
> Kirk Mill
>
>         -----Original Message-----
>         From:   Roger Lahti [SMTP:[e-mail]]
>         Sent:   Thursday, July 30, 1998 1:42 PM
>         To:     [e-mail]
>         Subject:        Re: MtMan-List: brain tan pants
>
>         My friend Tom Crooks worked out a system for doing this using a
> power sander and the resultant product is "almost like brain tan". I am
> going to visit him this weekend and I will refresh my memory on the
> particulars of his technique and pass it on to those that wish to use it.
>
>         YMOS
>         Capt. Lahti'
>
>         [e-mail] wrote:
>
>                 I concur that a well done brain tan is the best for making
> pants, etc.
>                 However, it is VERY expensive if you are not tanning it
> yourself.  I use it in
>                 my quillwork but I have found a good alternative for my
> native american
>                 dresses.  I purchase pure white deer hides and make the
> garment with the rough
>                 side out.  After that I soak it in a solution of tea and
> coffee.  This gives
>                 it the color of a very tan creamy brain tan.  The buckskin
> is, also, very
>                 soft. Actually  it as soft as some of the  poorly done brain
> tan that I have
>                 felt.  I can do a dress for around $100.  Pants would
> probably run less.  Most
>                 folks comment on how pretty the brain tan dress looks.
>
>                 Red Hawk
>
>                 [e-mail]
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 16:21:57 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: Warped barrel.....oh brother

You know....I have been wondering why that darn pistol shoots so dang
high.  I have no problem with the side to side but at 25 yards it is
about 2.5 feet high...no sights yet.  I figured that when I put a front
blade on it would come down to where it should be.
Now I hear I may have warped the little bugger?  I really didn't think I
got it that hot.  The striker was left on the burner and got orange
hot.  The barrel did not.
I hope the barrel is not warped.  Is there any way I can tell?
I like the looks of my browning job.  Will consider the cold method next
time.

Thanks to all who gave advise on the soft striker.
I did quench it in water that first time.  It is not brittle...seems
soft.
What does it mean to "draw" it?
I look forward to hearing from Iron Tongue and any others.
Again....
Thanks for your help
J.D. Stoddard

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 14:26:23 -0700
From: Roger Lahti <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mtn-Man: Introduction and request for help

Dear Susan:

May I call you Susan? Welcome to our little group. It sounds like you will
have much to contribute to our efforts to grow in the old ways. You are not
alone on the distaff side though with Angela up north of us wading in often
with some great words of wisdom.

May I offer a start of a suggestion with respect involving a non shooting
spouse? Be assured that there were many learned gentlemen on the frontiers of
this country who were not shooters and trappers. Life at rendezvous would be
much more comfortable as a Gentleman exploring the natural world as a
surveyor, or cartographer, or naturalist. There are endless avocations that
could be pursued in the veil of a gentleman's persona even to the level of
indolent leisure. Dress him as a 17th or 18 century gent and camp in a wedge
or marquee or wall tent and enjoy fine dinners at your table under a starry
night sky.

Again, welcome to the list. I remain your most devoted and attentive
servant...

Capt. Roger Lahti (ret)
Clerk, Wilson Price Hunt Party, Northwest Brigade, AMM #1719

S. Gilbert wrote:

> Hello the camp.
>
>         I have been lurking for a bit now and tried once earlier to make
> my presence known, without much success(posting problems).
>         My name is Susan Gilbert, aka She Has Old Hands.  I've been
> interested in and researching women in colonial and frontier America for
> about 8 years.  I do presentations for the local schools on the daily
> lives of 2 of my ancestors, Annie Night-born, a Cherokee mid-wife and yarb
> woman and Matilda McFarland Clayton, wife of a trapper and cartographer
> named John Wesley Clayton.  My presentations are done in character as
> either one of these women and I have learned many of the "goodwife" skills
> necessary to run a house and feed and cloth a family in the period they
> lived. I never thought of my presentations as "Living History" until
> someone who saw me used the term to describe what I do.
>         2 years ago I stumbled across a Voo at Ushers Ferry, in Iowa, and
> was completely captivated.  I would love to get involved but I have an
> unusual problem.
>         I'm a married woman who's husband is only mildly interested in
> this area.  Brian is very supportive of my interest and has allowed me to
> drag him all over our area in search of gear and people to interview, but
> feels there is no place for him. He is not interested in firearms,
> trapping, or any of the other things that occupy you menfolk, other than
> as a spectator.  He is a videographer, photographer, astronomer and Alpha
> computer geek.
>         So how does a woman involve an only marginally interested husband
> in the lifestyle?  You who had to coax a hesitant wife might be able to
> give me some hints, I hope.
>         I have enjoyed this group very much and hope to be much more
> involved now that I mustered my courage and finally said hello.
>
> Thank you for your attention and any help you can offer.
>
> Your humble servant,
> She Has Old Hands
>
> Susan Gilbert
> [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 14:32:35 -0700
From: Roger Lahti <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: wantabee wants to make loin cloth

Lanney:

And thank you for your kind words to me too. I am very pleased that you are
finding satisfaction in my work. I am inroute to Albany Or. to get more copper
sheet and I am sure I could accommodate your request for a larger pot after I
get home again. It has been a busy summer  and since returning from the Rocky
Mt. Nat's. it has been so hot here as to preclude any serious projects.

We will get together when I return from Or. I remain...

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'

Lanney Ratcliff wrote:

> You are exactly right, Capt, plus you make a pretty good copper pot.  The
> one I bought from you in Pierre's Hole has been the object of much
> admiration and envy by all who have seen it.  I wouldn't mind having another
> one, only 3 or 4 times more capacity---a
> little taller and a good bit larger diameter.
> Lanney Ratcliff  #1585
> [e-mail]
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roger Lahti <[e-mail]>
> To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
> Date: Thursday, July 30, 1998 3:40 PM
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: wantabee wants to make loin cloth
>
> >Pearce:
> >
> >I'm surprised that no one took on your last question as to whether its OK
> with
> >the AMM to take on the persona of a 1700's long hunter. I am a bit
> reluctant to
> >speak for the whole organization but I will tell you what I think.
> >
> >I am an old hand at buckskinning and a new member to AMM. Though my kit and
> >caboodle are probably more eastern than what has been popularly considered
> the
> >dress and gear of a Rocky Mt. Fur Trapper, I have not met with any clothing
> >police at any of the AMM functions I've been privileged to attend. I have
> >discussed my gear and clothing with my brigade boshway and my sponsors and
> none
> >had a problem with why I choose to dress and carry on the way I do.
> >
> >Though I don't have any great amount of data to back it up with, my
> impression
> >and my gut feeling says that the western fur trapper of the 1800's was more
> >influenced by the eastern longhunter of the 1700's and 1800's than is at
> first
> >admitted by most serious practitioners of the "game" we are playing.
> Consider
> >that the skilled woodsmen being recruited for expeditions into the Rockies'
> >were from the stock and cadre of frontiersmen living on the edge of
> American
> >civilization. They would have learned their skills and traditions from
> their
> >longhunter fathers and uncles. Their firearms were the long guns and
> foulers of
> >there fathers and weapons left over from the last war.
> >
> >If one looks closely to what little visual evidence is left to us (in the
> form
> >of Millers' paintings and sketches) one will recognize the great coat, the
> >hunting frock, the long shirt, the knee britches, knee socks and pucker toe
> >mocs' of the eastern hunter. This is not the only picture that is painted
> of
> >these western mt. men but it does show that these fashions of dress were
> still
> >in use quit late in the "Rendezvous Era". What it says to me is that there
> was
> >quit a diversity of styles worn during that time and not necessarily what
> we
> >have come to expect as correct for the period.
> >
> >Another interesting tid-bit comes to us from the journals of the Corps of
> >Discovery and early expeditions like the Wilson Price Hunt Party that went
> to
> >the Pacific in 1810-1811. Both groups reported running into small groups of
> >(long) hunters and adventurers either heading out to the mountains even
> before
> >L and C made it to St. Louis and coming home from the mountains in 1811
> while
> >the Wilson Price Hunt party were making their way west. Infact, Mr. Hunt
> hired
> >a group of three and a group of two Hunters that were coming out of the
> >mountains and got them to turn west again with him since he had such a hard
> >time finding skilled and responsible hunters/frontiersmen in St. Louis as
> he
> >was getting the original party together. I would not think it unreasonable
> to
> >refer to these several men that he hired on the trail as the "Classic Long
> >Hunter" of the east having gone west.
> >
> >So when at a western rendezvous, claim to be a woods runner fresh from the
> >hills of Kentucky and let the clothing police be damned! I prefer a breech
> >clout of light weight wool over one of linen and long enough to pass
> through
> >the neither world and not so long as to hinder the motion of my legs. The
> thick
> >leather thong around the waist works to keep up clout and leggings of wool
> or
> >leather. I like a large loose pullover shirt that will come almost to my
> knees.
> >A sash or leather belt and some simple center seam, side seam, or
> pucker-toe
> >mocs will make you right in style. . John Colter got by with a lot less! A
> >sassy head scarf and you are some 'punkin', WAUGH!!
> >
> >Hope this was of help to you. Whatever you do, try to do it right. If you
> don't
> >get it right, don't kill yourself over it cause its only a game. I
> remain...
> >
> >YMOS
> >Capt. Lahti'
> >
> >
> >
> >Pearce Gardner wrote:
> >
> >> I figure in order to start doing this mountain man thing, the first
> article
> >> of clothing should be a loin cloth.  what does everyone recommend, big
> >> question, what size and weight of cloth, and what kind of belt or waist
> >> strap to hold it on with?  I figure my persona is 1750's Virginia
> mountain
> >> longhunter.  Is this persona acceptable to AMA?  Any help and or advice
> in
> >> this matter is greatly appreciated.
> >>
> >> Thanks for all your help in this matter.
> >>
> >> Gardner
> >
> >
> >
> >

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 14:49:47 -0700
From: Roger Lahti <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Warped barrel.....oh brother

J. D. :

You may not have warped the barrel depending on where you got the barrel. It
has been some years since I've seen one, but the less expensive barrels from
some makers like Numrick Arms were drilled after the outside of the barrel
was finished so it was quit possible to have a barrel that had a bore not
parallel with the outside. This is not necessarily a major problem as long
as you orient the bore in the most advantageous way. If I remember
correctly, the breach plug was put in the out of center end and the muzzle
end was made from the end that had the bore mostly dead center. It was then
important to make the top of the barrel conform to the run out of the bore.
So the barrel would shoot high to start with. I think this is right. Anyway
you get the idea.

So maybe you didn't warp the barrel. Hope this didn't confuse the issue too
much.

YMOS
Capt. Lahti

[e-mail] wrote:

> You know....I have been wondering why that darn pistol shoots so dang
> high.  I have no problem with the side to side but at 25 yards it is
> about 2.5 feet high...no sights yet.  I figured that when I put a front
> blade on it would come down to where it should be.
> Now I hear I may have warped the little bugger?  I really didn't think I
> got it that hot.  The striker was left on the burner and got orange
> hot.  The barrel did not.
> I hope the barrel is not warped.  Is there any way I can tell?
> I like the looks of my browning job.  Will consider the cold method next
> time.
>
> Thanks to all who gave advise on the soft striker.
> I did quench it in water that first time.  It is not brittle...seems
> soft.
> What does it mean to "draw" it?
> I look forward to hearing from Iron Tongue and any others.
> Again....
> Thanks for your help
> J.D. Stoddard

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 18:00:56 EDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: brain tan pants(dye removal)

Red Hawk writes:
>  I purchase pure white deer hides and make the garment with the rough
>  side out.  After that I soak it in a solution of tea and coffee.  This
gives
>  it the color of a very tan creamy brain tan.

Even those white undyed hides are hard to come by back east.  All the tanners
either dye them pearl gray or golden orange.  Many have had great success with
Rit Dye Remover and do a batch of 10 dyed hides at the same time in the
washing machine.  When the dye is removed, they tumble them in the dryer on
low heat until they are dry.  The softness seems to remain after this regimen.

OldFox

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 18:17:54 EDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: wantabee wants to make loin cloth(Eastern)

Cap't Lahti' writes:

> Though I don't have any great amount of data to back it up with, my
> impression and my gut feeling says that the western fur trapper of the
1800's was > more influenced by the eastern longhunter of the 1700's and
1800's than is at
> first admitted by most serious practitioners of the "game" we are playing.

The gut feeling is kind of reinforced by little tidbits of information that
one subconsciously puts together as a result of wide readings.  For instance,
we know that after he moved to Missouri in his later years, D. Boone made a
couple of forays to the Rockys with a couple of cronies to trap during the
time period discussed.  It is known that he had his favorite types of
clothing, and pictures of him during that time period still show him in
Eastern style clothing.  One can deduce that others with Eastern influences
did the same.

> Consider
>  that the skilled woodsmen being recruited for expeditions into the Rockies'
>  were from the stock and cadre of frontiersmen living on the edge of
American
>  civilization. They would have learned their skills and traditions from
their
>  longhunter fathers and uncles. Their firearms were the long guns and
foulers
> of there fathers and weapons left over from the last war.

In his book on the Hawken Rifle, Hanson found overwhelming documentation that
led him to believe that the Lancaster style rifle was the one most used during
the  Rocky Mtn era.  This would support what you stated above; and probably
the men who carried them still had that Eastern influence.

>  If one looks closely to what little visual evidence is left to us (in the
> form of Millers' paintings and sketches) one will recognize the great coat,
the
>  hunting frock, the long shirt, the knee britches, knee socks and pucker toe
>  mocs' of the eastern hunter. This is not the only picture that is painted
of
>  these western mt. men but it does show that these fashions of dress were
> still in use quit late in the "Rendezvous Era". What it says to me is that
there
> was quit a diversity of styles worn during that time and not necessarily
what we
>  have come to expect as correct for the period.

I would deduce that there are considerable sources, like the ones I stated,
buried deeply in the writings and documentation of the period.  No one has
probably made a concerted effort to uncover them and put them into one work.
Sounds like a good book, "Eastern Influences on the Mountain Man."

OldFox

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 18:27:37 -0400
From: "Pearce Gardner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mtn-Man: Introduction and request for help

He is a videographer, photographer, astronomer and Alpha
>computer geek.
> So how does a woman involve an only marginally interested husband
>in the lifestyle?  You who had to coax a hesitant wife might be able to
>give me some hints

Since your husband is a videographer, maybe he may be interested in
producing a video on living history that you do.   Just an idea, and there
would be lots of problems to work out with having a  video camera at a voo,
but it may just hook him. This is just my .02 worth.

  I have a similar problem, my wife has no interest in camping, guns, or
outdoors in general. She just rolls her eyes when I talk about buckskinning,
so hence, for 5 years I have been talking about getting my outfit and going
to a voo, but have not made it yet.   She does like to eat venison, so she
is pretty good about me hunting.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 19:11:34 EDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mtn-Man: Introduction and request for help

In a message dated 98-07-30 16:47:23 EDT, you write:

>     I'm a married woman who's husband is only mildly interested in
>  this area.  Brian is very supportive of my interest and has allowed me to
>  drag him all over our area in search of gear and people to interview, but
>  feels there is no place for him. He is not interested in firearms,
>  trapping, or any of the other things that occupy you menfolk, other than
>  as a spectator.  He is a videographer, photographer, astronomer and Alpha
>  computer geek.
>      So how does a woman involve an only marginally interested husband
>  in the lifestyle?  You who had to coax a hesitant wife might be able to
>  give me some hints, I hope.

Susan,
There are many women in our area who regulary attend Rendezvous alone.  Their
husband's have no interest in the life.  Men often attend without their wives,
why shouldn't the converse be true.

Most have their own camp, know how to set it up alone, and do very well
fending for themselves.  They usually eat better than most camps too and there
are no end ot kind hearted souls who keep watch over them.

There are a couple of "women-only" Rendezvous this fall that are geared toward
teaching women all the essentials needed, with seminars on every conceivable
subject.  I think they are in Ohio, Indiana, or Michigan, and will dig out the
details if you have any interest.

Course it would be better if ya can find something to pique your husband's
interest and get him to come along.

OldFox

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 18:24:36 -0500
From: Jeff Powers <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mtn-Man: Introduction and request for help

get him an outfit of clothes and tell him to drag his telescope along and
enjoy the DARK SKIES much better than in town etc. I've snuck my 4"
reflecter along a few times  ;-)  The only real problem I see is where to
get a "Period Correct" computer for him to play with!
On 1998-07-30 [e-mail] said to [e-mail]
   >X-Sender: [e-mail]
   >Hello the camp.
   >I have been lurking for a bit now and tried once earlier to make
   >my presence known, without much success(posting problems).
   >My name is Susan Gilbert, aka She Has Old Hands.  I've been
   >interested in and researching women in colonial and frontier
   >America for about 8 years.  I do presentations for the local
   >schools on the daily lives of 2 of my ancestors, Annie Night-born,
   >a Cherokee mid-wife and yarb woman and Matilda McFarland Clayton,
   >wife of a trapper and cartographer named John Wesley Clayton.  My
   >presentations are done in character as either one of these women
   >and I have learned many of the "goodwife" skills necessary to run a
   >house and feed and cloth a family in the period they lived. I never
   >thought of my presentations as "Living History" until someone who
   >saw me used the term to describe what I do. 2 years ago I stumbled
   >across a Voo at Ushers Ferry, in Iowa, and was completely
   >captivated.  I would love to get involved but I have an unusual
   >problem. I'm a married woman who's husband is only mildly
   >interested in this area.  Brian is very supportive of my interest
   >and has allowed me to drag him all over our area in search of gear
   >and people to interview, but feels there is no place for him. He is
   >not interested in firearms, trapping, or any of the other things
   >that occupy you menfolk, other than as a spectator.  He is a
   >videographer, photographer, astronomer and Alpha computer geek.
   >So how does a woman involve an only marginally interested husband
   >in the lifestyle?  You who had to coax a hesitant wife might be
   >able to give me some hints, I hope.
   >I have enjoyed this group very much and hope to be much more
   >involved now that I mustered my courage and finally said hello.
   >Thank you for your attention and any help you can offer.
   >Your humble servant,
   >She Has Old Hands
   >Susan Gilbert
   >[e-mail]

SOUFLE,SOUFLE  La VIELLE

Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Test Drive

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 17:22:51 -0700
From: Chris Sega <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Iron Striker gone Soft

If you want to reharden, Brown or generally mess with the hardness,
spring or color of a piece of metal, I believe you should consult a good
book.  An excellent book for formulas, steel composition, and
quench/temper heats/colors is The Complete Bladesmith by Jim Hrouslas.
Great info on knives and tempering/hardening processes.  Although many
people here on the list can "Do" these things I think more detailed and
precise explanation would be in order for one to understand it.  All you
need to accomplish these Harden and Quench tasks is an Oxy-Acetylene
torch and a bucket to hold the quench.  If you understand a little of
the dry and boring stuff about crystalline structure in steel and why
metal gets hard and soft, you can do much better.
This all said,  First Reharden the piece by heating it to a red heat
(Can differ with different metal composition) and Quench it in light
oil, This hardens the piece, but it is brittle and may break with use.
You Temper this hardness with heat again.  But you have to freeze the
desired hardness, indicated by the colors shown in a buffed or sanded
portion of the piece, By quenching again.  2 Steps Harden,  Temper.
Colors like "Yellow" "Straw" "Peacock" etc follow a gradient with Yellow
the hardest on down to blue and black having most of the hardness drawn
out of the metal.  These colors show only when you brighten the metal
and gradually apply the heat.  A goood example is the tip of a drill bit
when you abuse it.  If the end is purple blue etc, its been Tempered and
softened.  For thos e who know all of this I apologise, just trying to
clear the air a bit.

Chris Sega

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 18:40:40 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Joe Brandl)
Subject: MtMan-List: commercial leather clothes

I have created many articles of clothing out of both braintan and
commercial leather. When constructing clothing for film, there are many
techniques for ageing and coloring leather. Another note, the white
buckskin is tanned as a formaldehyde tan. Common colored hides you see are
chrome tanned, then dyed varoius colors. We can get these white hides
readily. I like to use a smoke colored hide then use "fullers dirt" to age
it. I also air brush to add highlights. I have taken the gold buckskin and
made it look great. The first thing though is to use the suede side out. I
have have a commercial buffer in our tannery and have buffed the grain off.
Also used a sand blaster on large hides. You can use a belt sander only if
you have a soft pad under the leather, otherwise you will tear holes in it.
The grain does not have to be completely removed, only roughed up.

Cutting fringe very thin, will disguse the commercial look. Nothing is
better than braintan when it comes to wear and looks but with some
imagination you can create a good looking outfit. Lamb suede is great for
light shirts. Deer and elk splits are ok but tend to be weak hides. Deer is
stronger than elk as the fibers are closer together. Why some folks want
shirts or pants from elk other than getting the neccessary size for a large
man is beyond me.

The best thing to do with all hides wheather braintan or commercial is to
"block" them or wet, stretch and tack out the hides till dry. This is why
some guys crotch hangs down to their knees or moccasins tend to grow a size
or two. Remember that hides have more stretch from side to side than neck
to butt. This is important in cutting leather. Also that no hide will lay
completely flat as it comes off a round animal.

If anyone is interested in some other ideas of how to age leather or tone
down the gold color, let me know. As for using" Rit out" for removing
color, just lay the hides in the sun for a couple day and the color will
fand quickly on the grain side, the suede side does not work as well. Rit
out really does not do that great of a job , and neither does bleach.

Just some thoughts

Joe

Absaroka Western Designs and Tannery
Call us about our professional home tanning kit-307-455-2440
Write for custom tanning prices
We produce rawhide lampshades and carry a large selection of leather and
hair on robes
Fine lodgepole furniture, pillows, Indian reproductions, paintings, baskets
check out our new web site: http://www.onpages.com/absaroka

------------------------------

End of hist_text-digest V1 #113
*******************************

-
 To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to
"[e-mail]"
 with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.
 For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
 "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.