hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 11:41:38 -0500
From: JOAQUINQS@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Wood Canteens
PoorBoy,
Wooden canteens were used during the Rev. War, being issued to the regulars. In last Book of Buckskinning Rex Allen Norman mentions the use of wood canteens, he also has great information in his "1837 Sketch Book of the Western Fur Trade", in a few trade list a few inventories include a canteen, few but they are listed.
I would me more than happy to try and help out, just email me off-list,
Frank Sablan
Midland, Texas
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 08:49:50 -0800
From: "Lee Newbill" <bluethistle@potlatch.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Wood Canteens
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_013A_01C2863A.A23A2560
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yo Poorboy
You need to come out and play in the woods!!
On canteens, I am digging deep into my references at the moment, and =
can't find the one I'm after, but....
Wooden canteens as you describe (minus bladder and metal spout) were =
issued to soldiers at the time of Lewis and Clark.... I'm thinking the =
1st US Infantry Regiment carried them (1802) and was described as =
"Canteen, wood painted red, with white letters "U.S."
I haven't seen references to exact size.
Regards
Lee Newbill of North Idaho
AMM# 1821
www.hogheavenmuzzleloaders.com
users.potlatch.com/bluethistle
www.mountaintoptradingco.com/
=20
----- Original Message -----=20
From: PoorBoy=20
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 7:41 AM
Subject: MtMan-List: Wood Canteens
Sorry, that should have read flat sided round canteens with a =
circumference of staves.
PoorBoy
- ------=_NextPart_000_013A_01C2863A.A23A2560
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 12:32:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Branson <d49_mbranson@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pedersoli Trade Musket
- --0-1705792878-1036701137=:63373
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Normally I don't reply to the various articles I read in this web site as I usually don't have time. this particular letter caused me to want to respond to "Beaver Boy". Sir, I have been building custom rifles since 1972, I have been wearing buckskins since 1973. I'm just retiring from a lifetime of teaching high school history. I currently have 5 rifle orders on the bench waiting to be completed. The oldest is 1.5 years old. I have already built and delivered 7 rifles and 4 pistols all flintlock some with carving all with engraving Since last spring. My prices are higher than ever. Yet I have more orders than ever before. I used to build a rifle a month in the 1970s. Now it takes 5 weeks of working 8-10 hours per day to build a rifle. I use only a hand held electric drill. All other tools are hand tools. I build them The old fashioned way. I have always felt that if you want a rifle that looks like a gun from the 18-19 century then build it with 18th century tools and techniques. It takes a long time to build guns in such a manner. Especially if I want to charge even close to what it costs in labor and materials for such a gun. I figure with a skill like mine I'm worth at least $50-75 per hour. My plumber and car mechanic make more and have less skill with tools. I can hand file a hinge with no gaps. My plumber can't do that. At a cost of 50-75 per hour I end up usually charging between 3-5 thousand dollars per rifle. Yes that sounds like a lot but it is not. Not when people make 35-75 thousand per year and up. I know a factory worker in Ohio who works with his wife and the two of them together make 140,000. per year. Houses in Colorado sell on the average for 150-200 thousand dollars. New trucks cost 30+ per vehicle. I hate to be critical but a 4500 dollar rifle at modern wages is a lot less than a 20 dollar rifle was to a farmer in 1810 who only made 80 dollars per year. Everyone is free to shoot what ever they want but if you want a fine rifle that shoots plumb center, and you want it to look exactly like the ones actually carried by the trappers and you want it to be ast dependable as thy're guns were then you should order a fine hand made rifle and expect to wait anywhere from 12 -24 months for it. I have been waiting on a custom barrel from a famous maker for 14 months now and I know he like me, works every day all day clear up into the evening. One should walk a mile in my moccasins before one throws stones. This most recent rifle I'm finishing this week I worked on for the last 2 evenings clear until 9:30pm on + all day. have a good day.
beaverboy@sofast.net wrote:Scott,
They're building a simple trade gun not painting the Sistine Chapel
Ceiling. 12 month's is too long to wait for anything, in my humble
opinion. If my company made people wait 12 months for a project we'd be
out of business. Perhaps they've been putting us off for so long that we
are getting used to such long waits. If someone tells you 12 months in the
gun business better figure on 16 months. I cannot believe there is that
big of a demand for custom made muzzleloaders nowadays. I tell you they
just need to work 40 hours a week like the rest of us.
Vent liners just stick out and are not needed, in my opinion. You
would think in those 12 months they make a guy wait they'd be able to cone
the inside of the vent hole like they did in the old days with out power
tools. We can justify modern stuff all we want, I was just stating my
humble opinion on unneeded and unhistorical vent liners. You can spot the
silver rings a mile away. I would never have one, ever.
Fur companys of old would order hundreds of guns at a time. I know
they didn't have to wait nearly as long. And those gunsmith's had it a lot
tougher.
If I could afford a hand forged barrel and gun, I'd have one. When I
win the lottery!
Sincerely,
Beaverboy
> I've dealt with and owned guns from TVM and they do great work! I never
> had a 12 month wait but they may be pretty busy nowadays. 12 months is
> pretty close give or take a few months, to what most custom builders I
> talked with quoted- hey, I ordered a GOOD oak canteen in September and
> won't get it until June! and regarding Taylor Anderson's guns-
> excellent craftsmanship- never had one of his but I saw a 1817 common
> rifle he did and it looked like a WELL kept original, beautiful! I
> have to agree with an earlier posting, why pay $700 for a mass
> produced gun when you can get a custom for just alittle more? Touch
> hole liners- can't comment on that BUT are you complaining that your
> barrel isn't hand forged? What about the stock- was it cut down, cut
> out and finished COMPLETELY by hand? Are ALL of your clothes made from
> handwoven fabric or hand tanned leather using hand spun thread, hand
> stitched buttonholes, hand dyed to whatever color it is now? I can
> understand the interest in being totally authentic but there are some
> things I think we can deal with... maybe I'm wrong. Good luck with the
> hunt for that perfect trade gun!
>
> Dios, Libertad y Tejas
> Scott McMahon
> S.W. Frontiers Mntd. Ranging Co.
>
> "Hays's Rangers have come, their appearance never to be forgotten.
Not
> any
> sort of uniforms, but well mounted and doubly well armed: each man has
> one or two Colt's revolvers besides ordinary pistols, a sword, and
> every man a rifle....The Mexicans are terribly afraid of them."
> The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
- ---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive medley & videos from Greatest Hits CD
- --0-1705792878-1036701137=:63373
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
<P>Normally I don't reply to the various articles I read in this web site as I usually don't have time. this particular letter caused me to want to respond to "Beaver Boy". Sir, I have been building custom rifles since 1972, I have been wearing buckskins since 1973. I'm just retiring from a lifetime of teaching high school history. I currently have 5 rifle orders on the bench waiting to be completed. The oldest is 1.5 years old. I have already built and delivered 7 rifles and 4 pistols all flintlock some with carving all with engraving Since last spring. My prices are higher than ever. Yet I have more orders than ever before. I used to build a rifle a month in the 1970s. Now it takes 5 weeks of working 8-10 hours per day to build a rifle. I use only a hand held electric drill. All other tools are hand tools. I build them The old fashioned way. I have always felt that if you want a rifle that looks like a gun from the 18-19 century then build it with 18th century tools and techniques. It takes a long time to build guns in such a manner. Especially if I want to charge even close to what it costs in labor and materials for such a gun. I figure with a skill like mine I'm worth at least $50-75 per hour. My plumber and car mechanic make more and have less skill with tools. I can hand file a hinge with no gaps. My plumber can't do that. At a cost of 50-75 per hour I end up usually charging between 3-5 thousand dollars per rifle. Yes that sounds like a lot but it is not. Not when people make 35-75 thousand per year and up. I know a factory worker in Ohio who works with his wife and the two of them together make 140,000. per year. Houses in Colorado sell on the average for 150-200 thousand dollars. New trucks cost 30+ per vehicle. I hate to be critical but a 4500 dollar rifle at modern wages is a lot less than a 20 dollar rifle was to a farmer in 1810 who only made 80 dollars per year. Everyone is free to shoot what ever they want but if you want a fine rifle that shoots plumb center, and you want it to look exactly like the ones actually carried by the trappers and you want it to be ast dependable as thy're guns were then you should order a fine hand made rifle and expect to wait anywhere from 12 -24 months for it. I have been waiting on a custom barrel from a famous maker for 14 months now and I know he like me, works every day all day clear up into the evening. One should walk a mile in my moccasins before one throws stones. This most recent rifle I'm finishing this week I worked on for the last 2 evenings clear until 9:30pm on + all day. have a good day.
<P> <B><I>beaverboy@sofast.net</I></B> wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">Scott,<BR>They're building a simple trade gun not painting the Sistine Chapel<BR>Ceiling. 12 month's is too long to wait for anything, in my humble<BR>opinion. If my company made people wait 12 months for a project we'd be<BR>out of business. Perhaps they've been putting us off for so long that we<BR>are getting used to such long waits. If someone tells you 12 months in the<BR>gun business better figure on 16 months. I cannot believe there is that<BR>big of a demand for custom made muzzleloaders nowadays. I tell you they<BR>just need to work 40 hours a week like the rest of us.<BR>Vent liners just stick out and are not needed, in my opinion. You<BR>would think in those 12 months they make a guy wait they'd be able to cone<BR>the inside of the vent hole like they did in the old days with out power<BR>tools. We can justify modern stuff all we want, I was just stating my<BR>humble opinion on unneeded and unhistorical vent liners. You can spot the<BR>silver rings a mile away. I would never have one, ever.<BR>Fur companys of old would order hundreds of guns at a time. I know<BR>they didn't have to wait nearly as long. And those gunsmith's had it a lot<BR>tougher.<BR>If I could afford a hand forged barrel and gun, I'd have one. When I<BR>win the lottery!<BR>Sincerely,<BR>Beaverboy<BR><BR><BR>> I've dealt with and owned guns from TVM and they do great work! I never<BR>> had a 12 month wait but they may be pretty busy nowadays. 12 months is<BR>> pretty close give or take a few months, to what most custom builders I<BR>> talked with quoted- hey, I ordered a GOOD oak canteen in September and<BR>> won't get it until June! and regarding Taylor Anderson's guns-<BR>> excellent craftsmanship- never had one of his but I saw a 1817 common<BR>> rifle he did and it looked like a WELL kept original, beautiful! I<BR>> have to agree with an earlier posting, why pay $700 for a mass<BR>> produced gun when you can get a custom for just alittle more? Touch<BR>> hole liners- can't comment on that BUT are you complaining that your<BR>> barrel isn't hand forged? What about the stock- was it cut down, cut<BR>> out and finished COMPLETELY by hand? Are ALL of your clothes made from<BR>> handwoven fabric or hand tanned leather using hand spun thread, hand<BR>> stitched buttonholes, hand dyed to whatever color it is now? I can<BR>> understand the interest in being totally authentic but there are some<BR>> things I think we can deal with... maybe I'm wrong. Good luck with the<BR>> hunt for that perfect trade gun!<BR>><BR>> Dios, Libertad y Tejas<BR>> Scott McMahon<BR>> S.W. Frontiers Mntd. Ranging Co.<BR>><BR>> "Hays's Rangers have come, their appearance never to be forgotten.<BR>Not<BR>> any<BR>> sort of uniforms, but well mounted and doubly well armed: each man has<BR>> one or two Colt's revolvers besides ordinary pistols, a sword, and<BR>> every man a rifle....The Mexicans are terribly afraid of them."<BR>> General Ethan Allen Hitchcock<BR>> n.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html<BR>><BR>><BR>> _________________________________________________________________<BR>> The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*<BR>> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail<BR>><BR>><BR>> ----------------------<BR>> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>----------------------<BR>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html</BLOCKQUOTE><p><br><hr size=1>Do you Yahoo!?<br>
<a href="http://rd.yahoo.com/launch/mailsig/*http://launch.yahoo.com/u2">U2 on LAUNCH</a> - Exclusive medley & videos from Greatest Hits CD
- --0-1705792878-1036701137=:63373--
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
End of hist_text-digest V1 #1106
********************************
-
To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to
"majordomo@xmission.com"
with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.
