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From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #109 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Wednesday, July 29 1998 Volume 01 : Number 109 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 16:30:55 -0600 From: Les Chaffin <chaflesl@isu.edu> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Leggings into pants This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------8F8BBAFD26C4C7BFA79F9C90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have found that leggin are very comfortable to wear. So I would leave them as is. If you are worried about showing your rear side then make a pair of period underware there is a pattern in the last Buckskinning book. Les Roger Lahti wrote: > > Dear Sir: > > My first effort at brain tanning back in the late 60's went into a pair of > leggens of no particular tribal style. If anything they were more eastern than > plains but too long for traditional eastern, well anyway. I got the idea after > a few years to turn them into a pare of pants with some scraps of the same > brain tanning efforts. It wasn't all that difficult to make a seat piece and > a front piece and sew them in. I used a straight or french fly rather than > drop front and that seemed to work the best. I wore them for several years and > finally made another pair of leggens out of two other brain tan deer hides, > again in an eastern style. > > My conclusions on the whole project was that I should have left the leggens as > leggens in the first place. I did not find that making them into pants was a > very satisfactory enterprise. My advice is to leave them be. If I had some > leggens potlached onto me as you did and they were of sufficient girth, I > would be inclined to make a pair of cloth britches to wear under them and make > them look more like the leggens worn by the whites in the fur trade era as > depicted by Miller et.al. > > Hope my thoughts have been of some help. I remain... > > YMOS > Capt. Lahti > > Henry B. Crawford wrote: > > > Friends, > > > > A friend gave me a pair of brain-tanned Lakota leggings he made. I'm > > thinking of making a pair of pants out of 'em. I've got some brain tan to > > match. Are there any special techniques for patterning the front and seat > > and attaching them to the existing legs? > > > > TIA, > > HBC > > > > ***************************************** > > Henry B. Crawford Curator of History > > mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Museum of Texas Tech University > > 806/742-2442 Box 43191 > > FAX 742-1136 Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 > > WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum > > ****** Living History . . . Because it's there! ******* - --------------8F8BBAFD26C4C7BFA79F9C90 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Les Chaffin Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Les Chaffin n: Chaffin ;Les org: Twin Falls Computer Center Mgr. adr;dom: 34 Barton Lane;;;Twin Falls;Idaho;83301; email;internet: chaflesl@isu.edu title: Idaho State University tel;work: 208-736-2119 tel;fax: 208-236-4836 tel;home: 208-736-6002 x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: TRUE version: 2.1 end: vcard - --------------8F8BBAFD26C4C7BFA79F9C90-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 18:41:09 EDT From: <RR1LA@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Trade gun!1750's to 1770's Dear Hawk, re: Centermark, I can't find a web site listed in any of their advertising, but will call tomorrow, and will post it if they have one. PJ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 18:44:34 EDT From: <TetonTod@aol.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Inquiry Seems like I remember someone on the list being from Hawaii? Traveling there this weekend...would like to meet up and jaw some. Todd Glover ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 18:59:37 EDT From: <RR1LA@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Leggings into pants Henry, Why in the world would you want to ruin a perfectly good pair of leggings? Get a breechclout, cotton for summer, wool for winter, wrap your buns in it and enjoy the fresh air. PJ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 16:07:24 -0700 From: Roger Lahti <lahtirog@gte.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pilgrim outfit - --------------45818B1C55F53796CD18CAE5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Kirk' The best rules are the ones you set for yourself. If you want to just get by then those rules are fairly easy to come by. At an NMLRA or even most non NMLRA rendezvous you can do pretty much what you want as long as you don't show any modern gear to the world outside the privacy of you lodge. So you can have your coolers and beer cans and catchup bottles and milk and sleeping bag and at some point you have to ask your self why am I here? I could camp in a KOA and not have to hid most of my gear! The idea of Rendezvous is to re-create as closely as possible the flavor of the original event. It doesn't matter whether it is a National Rendezvous with 700 or 800 camps like the Rocky Mt. Nat's in Elk Park UT. this past month or you and a few friends slipping into some quiet meadow well away from the maddening crowd. The more you try to do do it historically correct, the more satisfaction you will derive from your outing. Mst folks take too much stuff (read that junk). I have found that the more stuff you take the less time you will have to have fun. You have to define what you can get by with for each outing and its special conditions. I admit to taking more stuff when I take the wife than when I go with my mates or alone. Dennis Miles had some real good advice for you and his words should be heeded. You can tune into Scott Allen's web site and down load a very complete list of what is needed for trekking or lonesome camps. As Dennis said you don't need much. The cloths on your back: what that consists of depends on the era you are playing in. It needs to be what you need to be comfortable standing away from a fire. Maybe some extra socks and mocs to take care of the unexpected. Some food: Jerky and cornmeal or parched corn for basics and perhaps some seasonings and dry fruit and tea. From there it depends on what you are prepared to carry or take care of (fresh meat). I like some bacon along. All in cloth bags. Cooking gear: A corn boiler and a small handle less skillet with maybe an extra cup for drinking. Mine is horn. A spoon, but that can be carved on site. Extras: emergency stuff like a sewing kit, and some twine, a sharpening stone, things like that. Limit what you carry. A way to carry the above: Some roll it all up in a bed roll and some carry their gear in knap sacks or haversacks. I like the way a knap sack rides on my back (but the jury is still out). Shooting gear: Your shooting bag and gun etc. Shelter from the elements: A good blanket that will wrap you up and perhaps a ground cloth or oil cloth to keep the dew off. I use a very light weight oil cloth of muslin to cover my blanket top and bottom. That is usually enough to keep me warm in frosty conditions along with what ever I was wearing during the day. I don't sleep in the nude! Perhaps a rain fly if you feel you need it and I usually feel I need one. Being from Eastern WA. where it doesn't rain much, when it rains and I get wet, I swell up. You: Your clothing needs to reflect the era you are playing in. It's OK to be a new man to the Mountains. But if you dress like a tourist or some one that looks like he is just getting by, you will be looked at as someone who is just getting by. If you can't afford brain tan, my advice is save until you can. Don't waste your time and money on modern leathers that are made to look sorta like brain tan. If all you have is cloth garments that is fine with most all. Take the time to make them out of the proper materials and the proper styles for the era you are playing in. Remember that brain tan wasn't the only type of leather available in the 1700's or 1800's, quit the opposite. But the leather they had did not look like golden tan buckskin! There were bark tans and oil tans and even some very basic chemical tans. More than this: If you have a lady that needs some special shmoozing to get into the mountains, my advice is to let her dress as a white woman or europeanized Indian Lady and make your camp appropriate. She will not have to rough it quit as much as a native american woman would have. Now if she is gutsy, then go for it. Did this answer your question or get you thinking? Perhaps you were looking for permission to take your modern gear if you can figure out how to hide it? I hope not. There are few of us who always do it without a crutch here and there but I and my companions try to be very personally imberasted if we are doing something we know is not "period". We try to figure out how it was done in the old days rather than how we can get by. I hope that is what you are striving for too. If you are trying, no one will look down their nose at you! If you have some more specific questions, feel free to ask. There is no shortage of opinion on these pages! As always I remain... YMOS Capt. Lahti' Mill, Kirk wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: Frank [SMTP:MedicineBear@Hawken54.sparks.nv.us] > Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 1998 4:06 PM > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pilgrim outfit > > expectations of a good time only to have those with "well worn > skins" look down their noses at you or worse, whisper and point! Sure does > take the fun out of a weekend. > this is exactly what I am trying to avoid. Also I get conflicting > advice about just how strict these "rules" are. For instance on some lists I > see talk of bringing coolers to voo. Now I am pretty sure that an AMM rondy > would forbid this, but what about an NMLRA rondy? I'll play by the rules, I > just need to know what they are first. > > > Kirk Mill > > It's really hard sometimes to imagine what a particular piece of > gear or clothing looks like. I live where there is virtually no one to look > to for help and the books I have don't have the best pictures. I imagine > there are many greenhorns in the same fix. Just a thought... > Medicine Bear - --------------45818B1C55F53796CD18CAE5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML> Dear Kirk' The best rules are the ones you set for yourself. If you want to just get by then those rules are fairly easy to come by. At an NMLRA or even most non NMLRA rendezvous you can do pretty much what you want as long as you don't show any modern gear to the world outside the privacy of you lodge. So you can have your coolers and beer cans and catchup bottles and milk and sleeping bag and at some point you have to ask your self why am I here? I could camp in a KOA and not have to hid most of my gear! The idea of Rendezvous is to re-create as closely as possible the flavor of the original event. It doesn't matter whether it is a National Rendezvous with 700 or 800 camps like the Rocky Mt. Nat's in Elk Park UT. this past month or you and a few friends slipping into some quiet meadow well away from the maddening crowd. The more you try to do do it historically correct, the more satisfaction you will derive from your outing. Mst folks take too much stuff (read that junk). I have found that the more stuff you take the less time you will have to have fun. You have to define what you can get by with for each outing and its special conditions. I admit to taking more stuff when I take the wife than when I go with my mates or alone. Dennis Miles had some real good advice for you and his words should be heeded. You can tune into Scott Allen's web site and down load a very complete list of what is needed for trekking or lonesome camps. As Dennis said you don't need much. The cloths on your back: what that consists of depends on the era you are playing in. It needs to be what you need to be comfortable standing away from a fire. Maybe some extra socks and mocs to take care of the unexpected. Some food: Jerky and cornmeal or parched corn for basics and perhaps some seasonings and dry fruit and tea. From there it depends on what you are prepared to carry or take care of (fresh meat). I like some bacon along. All in cloth bags. Cooking gear: A corn boiler and a small handle less skillet with maybe an extra cup for drinking. Mine is horn. A spoon, but that can be carved on site. Extras: emergency stuff like a sewing kit, and some twine, a sharpening stone, things like that. Limit what you carry. A way to carry the above: Some roll it all up in a bed roll and some carry their gear in knap sacks or haversacks. I like the way a knap sack rides on my back (but the jury is still out). Shooting gear: Your shooting bag and gun etc. Shelter from the elements: A good blanket that will wrap you up and perhaps a ground cloth or oil cloth to keep the dew off. I use a very light weight oil cloth of muslin to cover my blanket top and bottom. That is usually enough to keep me warm in frosty conditions along with what ever I was wearing during the day. I don't sleep in the nude! Perhaps a rain fly if you feel you need it and I usually feel I need one. Being from Eastern WA. where it doesn't rain much, when it rains and I get wet, I swell up. You: Your clothing needs to reflect the era you are playing in. It's OK to be a new man to the Mountains. But if you dress like a tourist or some one that looks like he is just getting by, you will be looked at as someone who is just getting by. If you can't afford brain tan, my advice is save until you can. Don't waste your time and money on modern leathers that are made to look sorta like brain tan. If all you have is cloth garments that is fine with most all. Take the time to make them out of the proper materials and the proper styles for the era you are playing in. Remember that brain tan wasn't the only type of leather available in the 1700's or 1800's, quit the opposite. But the leather they had did not look like golden tan buckskin! There were bark tans and oil tans and even some very basic chemical tans. More than this: If you have a lady that needs some special shmoozing to get into the mountains, my advice is to let her dress as a white woman or europeanized Indian Lady and make your camp appropriate. She will not have to rough it quit as much as a native american woman would have. Now if she is gutsy, then go for it. Did this answer your question or get you thinking? Perhaps you were looking for permission to take your modern gear if you can figure out how to hide it? I hope not. There are few of us who always do it without a crutch here and there but I and my companions try to be very personally imberasted if we are doing something we know is not "period". We try to figure out how it was done in the old days rather than how we can get by. I hope that is what you are striving for too. If you are trying, no one will look down their nose at you! If you have some more specific questions, feel free to ask. There is no shortage of opinion on these pages! As always I remain... YMOS Capt. Lahti' Mill, Kirk wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE> -----Original Message----- From: Frank [SMTP:MedicineBear@Hawken54.sparks.nv.us] Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 1998 4:06 PM To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pilgrim outfit expectations of a good time only to have those with "well worn skins" look down their noses at you or worse, whisper and point! Sure does take the fun out of a weekend. this is exactly what I am trying to avoid. Also I get conflicting advice about just how strict these "rules" are. For instance on some lists I see talk of bringing coolers to voo. Now I am pretty sure that an AMM rondy would forbid this, but what about an NMLRA rondy? I'll play by the rules, I just need to know what they are first. Kirk Mill It's really hard sometimes to imagine what a particular piece of gear or clothing looks like. I live where there is virtually no one to look to for help and the books I have don't have the best pictures. I imagine there are many greenhorns in the same fix. Just a thought... Medicine Bear</BLOCKQUOTE> </HTML> - --------------45818B1C55F53796CD18CAE5-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 18:03:11 -0500 From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <rat@htcomp.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pilgrim outfit Kirk I have given the same advice to numerous pilgrims. DO NOT SPEND A BUNCH OF MONEY TO GO TO YOUR FIRST RENDEZVOUS!! A weekend pre-1840 club rendezvous will have a multitude of different styles of dress, accoutrements, shelters, guns --- everything---for you to see. Call a club member (preferably an officer) and ask that person to put you in contact with a club member (s) near your home. Visit with that person and find out more particulars about that club. Ask him to help you outfit yourself in a "generic", lowcost set of clothes. Find out if a pair of boots or moccasins you might already own is acceptable at that club's doin's. That sort of thing. You might spend $12 on Book of Buckskinning Vol.1 and read it. It will give you a reasonably useable overview of buckskinning. However, don't make the mistake of treating it as holy writ...just a guide. Contact Scurlock Publishing Co. Inc, Dept B7, Rt 5, Box 347-M, Texarkana, Texas 75501, 800-228-6389. Most clubs are pretty forgiving of newcomers and visitors so long as they display the right spirit and show up in a reasonably acceptable outfit. Some clubs have a supply of clothes to loan to a pilgrim, although you might find most of the loaners to be outgrown kids' stuff. At any rate, a first timer's clothes should be as non-specific as possible---something just about anyone would have worn in the time from about 1840 back to the turn of the eighteenth century...cloth trousers, cotton pullover, dropshoulder shirt, wide leather belt with a simple buckle and (at most rendezvous) round or square toe, low heel leather boots with the tops kept under the trouser bottoms or moccasins. Get a natural colored canvas haversack to carry a spoon, a tin pie plate and a tin (or plain crockery) cup. Avoid blue, green, red or any other color speckled enamel ware. Period. People will darn near compete to feed you (if you're not a jerk or something), but it is considered good manners to provide your own place setting, as it were. Ask your club contact his advice on a bedroll and to help you find someone you can camp with. A good wool blanket rolled into an 8X8 or 10X10 square of white canvas with a smaller canvas ground cloth is a good start. Find out how to set a diamond shelter with the square of canvas or stretch it over a rope or wooden ridgepole to make a simple "A" frame tent. Most clubs allow very nearly anything in a camp so long as it is kept covered--completely-- and will permit a car in camp for a short time on to unload on Friday (or even early Saturday). So don't be shy about bringing a cooler with drinks and fresh food and a sleeping pad of some sort. Bring food that doesn't need to be cooked or that can be cooked simply (on a stick) over a fire. Wander around camp and observe the various cooks in action, and come better equipped next time. Don't buy a gun before going to rendezvous for the first time. If you must carry somethig, carry a walking staff. It will make you look a little like Moses and costs essentially nothing. There will be guns there of every description and if you let it be known that you would like to talk about guns, you will find people falling all over themselves to talk about guns, to show you theirs and to let you shoot them. Talk with these same people about their clothes and why they dress the way they do. You will soon see the various times and places that are represented. If one particular style appeals to you do, find out all you can about that style...is it actually period and, if so, specifically when and where that style of dress was common. If you are certain that you have found a suitable style of dress, find out what gun would be appropriate to carry. Don't make this decision in haste. Take your time...your generic stuff will always be correct. When you are resonably certain about a particular style, do the research necessary to get yourself a good, sturdy, not too showey outfit. Then concern yourself about a gun. If you decide , for instance, that the French & Indian War period (1756) is where your interest lies, you don't want to suddenly remember that you already spent a small fortune on a top quality percussion mountain rifle suitable for the Rocky Mountains in the1830's. Then you will have to once again explain to She Who Must Be Obeyed how important it is for you to spend $1200 on a gun that only shoots once. Waugh!! However, when you have decided...for sure...where your interest lies, then buy the best gun you purse will allow. In fact, strain it a little. Ask the people with the best guns where they got theirs and if the same name keeps coming up go find that gunmaker. Pardon my long winded reply to your query. I hope you find some good guidance in your persuit of this truly wonderful hobby---that's what it is, you know. However,if you are lucky you find will yourself making buckskinning an integral part of you lifestyle, your daily conduct, even your home's decor. You will find that you will have greater confidence and pride in yourself and your abilities. Most people are too timid to do what you will soon be able to do without thinking twice. Good Luck Lanney Ratcliff rat@htcomp.com - -----Original Message----- From: Mill, Kirk <millk@aydin.com> To: ML MAILING LIST <mlml@vnet.net> Cc: history mailing list <hist_text@xmission.com> Date: Wednesday, July 29, 1998 1:30 PM Subject: MtMan-List: pilgrim outfit >I have been discussing this question with some people off-line and I decided >the best way to get the definitive answer would be to post it. >What would you folks consider to be the minimum outfit (clothing, shelter, >cookware, etc.) that a pilgrim like myself needs for a weekend rendezvous >that advertises as "pre-1840's"? Thanks in advance for your help. > > >Kirk Mill > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 18:10:01 -0500 From: John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Leggings into pants Henry, A breech clout is a lot easier to make. You don't wreck a nice pair of= Lakota leggings in the process. A breech clout and leggings is a very comfortable outfit. Leggings stitched on to crotch panels might look a little odd. = More often pants were made into leggings. To cut a crotch for pants. I take an old pair and fold them on the seams= then lay out the cuts freehand on the leather. Seems to work, leather is a= pretty forgiving material to work with. I've never made a pair of pants from a pattern. I used to be active in the historic pattern business. Never having used the products I can't fairly comment: except for the old "High Waisted Pant" pattern from Green River= Forge which, if you followed it precisely left the top of the waist band high in your arm pits. I was told all the other ones worked well, they claimed they= fixed it in the early 80's. Eagle Feather had a trained pattern designer lay= theirs out. How I make pants. =20 I take two large hides (10'+), each large enough that I can cut one leg with front and back panels from each and eliminate the inseam. Saves a lot of sewing. I fold them in half, and wrap them around my legs and figure out which way to lay each one for which leg. Keep track of left and right sides. A pair of Gohn Brothers broadfalls in white duck or denim works well to= layout the cut (trace with charcoal) for the crotch, front and back panel cuts on each hide. Cut it out, stitch it together, add gussets if you need them, figure out the buttons, waist band and flap and you're done. The hard part is getting up the gumption to cut the hides. Some folks cut= and sew cheap cloth first as a confidence builder. Never figured the old timers had time or spare materials for such. They probably had a pair of old pants and cut corners where they could. In essence I suggest you keep the leggings and make a breechclout and maybe= a pair of pants from other leather. Comfort notes: taper the crotch of your clout and it will stay in place better and be more comfortable. Wool clouts may need cotton crotch lining for= those sensitive to wool. A braintan clout is the third best feeling in the world. John... At 02:14 PM 7/29/98 -0600, you wrote: >Friends, > >A friend gave me a pair of brain-tanned Lakota leggings he made.=A0 I'm >thinking of making a pair of pants out of 'em.=A0 I've got some brain tan= to >match.=A0 Are there any special techniques for patterning the front and= seat >and attaching them to the existing legs? > >TIA, >HBC > >***************************************** >Henry B. Crawford=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Curator of History >mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu=A0=A0=A0=A0 Museum of Texas Tech University >806/742-2442=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Box 43191 >FAX 742-1136=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Lubbock, TX=A0 79409-3191 >=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 WEBSITE: <http://www.ttu.edu/~museum>http://www.ttu.edu/~museum >******=A0 Living History . . . Because it's there!=A0 ******* >=20 Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without. John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 18:16:33 -0500 From: John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Shooting pouches I don't think much of the nylon thread they are so proud of. Linen is= readily available from any good findings supply. Sure it will rot with neglect in= 20 to 50 years, so did the original stuff. If the stitching is well done it won't rot out much before the leather. John... At 10:12 AM 7/29/98 -0400, you wrote: >the bags look good in the pictures and if the quality that they ship is >as good as the pictures then the price seems reasonable---couldnt tell if >they were hand made or machine made that is sewed--- > >a shooting bag is a very personal thing and I have never seen two people >agree what or how a bag should look or be built like---I know for certain >its more than imbarrising for a bag not to be what you want.=A0 I worked on >the one that I use for several years to get the shape and fit and >location of the straps and all that was suitable to me, my body contours, >the compfort of wearing, and it's basic usability--A SHOOTING BAG IS >EITHER RIGHT OR VERY COLUMBERSOM AND WILL SLOW YOU DOWN WHEN LOADING AND >SHOOTING OUT OF IT----it must be just big enough for you and just small >enough to wear all day and not be a bother---one of the most critical >things i found was the strap width---going over the top of the >sholder---finaly came to the conclusion strap over the top of the sholder >should be wide as possible---another important point was it should be >ajustable for your body and clothing changes---another point is it should >be organized well enough that it can be worn in the woods in all areas of >the country and still be totally functional----NOTE ---A PICTURE IS ONLY >A STARTING POINT TO GETTING WHAT YOU REALLY WANT OR NEED---have seen a >lot of Pretty, and very fancy bags that to me was not functional and >applicable to my type of hunting, shooting---because of this I have 2 >bags that i have made and have used over the ages--one is primarily for >hunting---it is quite small and only caries what i need to hunt or shoot >with--- the other is larger and it carries everything that i need for >hunting and survival in the woods has a knife on the back of the bag >even---I GRAB MY SHOOTING BAGS AND i AM READY TO GO---SHOOT, TRECK ,OR >HUNT--DONT HAVE TO HUNT FOR ANYTHING AND KNOW WHAT EACH CONTAIN ---I keep >the horn's full and the bullet load always the same. > >My bags have everything in them that I will need per above---the trick is >to keep them as small as possible yet carry what you need---YOU DONT >TRULY REALISE WHAT A FEW OUNCES IN WEIGHT WILL MAKE AND JUST A SMALL >DIFFERENCE IN SIZE--- > >a shooting bag should hold only what you need NO MORE---NO LESS --- >remember what is good for me might be the pits for you---A SHOOTING BAG >IS A VERY PERSONAL THING=3D=3D=3D=3Dif you like it and it works for you= then its' >wonderful--- > >=A0=A0 YMHOSANT >=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =3D+=3D=20 >=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 "Hawk" >Michael Pierce >854 Glenfield Dr. >Palm Harbor, florida=A0=A0 34684 >1-(813) 771-1815=A0=A0=A0=A0 E-MAIL ADDRESS: HAWKNEST4@juno.com > >On Tue, 28 Jul 1998 17:21:14 -0500 Glenn Darilek <llsi@texas.net> writes: >>Has there been any comments on the bags shown in: >> >><http://www.oct-country.com/shootbag.htm>http://www.oct-country.com/shoot bag.htm >> >>? >> >>Iron Burner >> >> > >_____________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at <http://www.juno.com/>http://www.juno.com >Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] >=20 Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without. John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:26:03 EDT From: <RR1LA@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pilgrim outfit Kirk: most important of all, take a good attitude, ready to listen and learn. you'll meet and befriend the best people in the world. in a pinch they would feed, clothe and shelter you. if you are gonna be taking stuff, these are about the minimums: clothing = pants, mocs, shirt, warm hat and a blanket (for use both as a wrap in the evening and to sleep under at night) shelter = diamond fly (canvas tarp) run from a tree to the ground to keep dry while sleeping and provide shade during the day, and some rope to attach it weapons = knife & hawk for defense, as well as making and pounding stakes, cutting wood, and throwing for fun (or money) liquor = VERY important: good barter material to trade for clothing, shelter, food and cooking services cooking = plate and spoon. if above fails, a small boiling pot or small frying pan depending on what food you take. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 18:44:35 -0500 From: Jeff Powers <kestrel@ticon.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pilgrim outfit If I had a scanner I would do just that! I have web space(paying for 5MB and not even using it!) but am lousy at creating a web page,have tried a couple of times and was so embaresed I deleted them without telling anyone about it! On 1998-07-29 hist_text@lists.xmission.com said to kestrel@ticon.net >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (Win98; I) >X-Accept-Language: en >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Sender: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Precedence: bulk >Status: >Hello the camp! >On the subject of "starting out", I have often wished that some >experienced enterprising skinner would put together a web page with >pictures showing their "historically correct" possibles. Not every >imaginable item but just the basics needed to make a respectable >outfit. Heck, others could post to this site as they get pictures >of their stuff. There's nothing like showing up to a voo in your >new outfit, full of expectations of a good time only to have those >with "well worn skins" look down their noses at you or worse, >whisper and point! Sure does take the fun out of a weekend. It's >really hard sometimes to imagine what a particular piece of gear or >clothing looks like. I live where there is virtually no one to >look to for help and the books I have don't have the best pictures. >I imagine there are many greenhorns in the same fix. Just a thought. >.. Medicine Bear SOUFLE,SOUFLE La VIELLE Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Test Drive ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 18:44:40 -0500 From: Jeff Powers <kestrel@ticon.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Scotts in the West I've read fiction that has Scot Mountain men(complete with kilt)and do not dought there were Scots in the mountains,but the Scots you name were all booshways. Highlanders are so ethnically proud I can imagine kilts and breechclouts made from kilts being seen in the SHINING MOUNTAINS! On 2098-07-30 hist_text@lists.xmission.com said to kestrel@ticon.net >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >X-Priority: 3 >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 >Sender: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Precedence: bulk >Status: >Matt: >I just happen to be reading "Company of Adventurers" Vol 1 by Peter >C. Newman. On page 6-7 it says in part...."Nearly all the great >names in the HBC's annals grew up in Scotland; not just Sir George >Simpson, Donald Smith and Sir James Douglas..... others Chief >Factor Robert Campbell. This is not yet Rocky Mountains..... but >fur traders no the less. Gail >-----Original Message----- >Date: Wednesday, July 29, 1998 10:43 AM >>I, being an ambitious yet poor historical reinactor, am faced with >a dilema. >>I have been invited into a scottish clan to be a highlander, this >is not the >>problem. The problem is that I am already trying to get into >>mountain man type reinacting. I was wondering if any of the >>people on this list have information on Scotts who were mountain >men, and if I might be able to cross >>over some of the costs in reinactment. THank you. Matt SOUFLE,SOUFLE La VIELLE Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Test Drive ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2098 17:14:13 -0700 From: "Gail Carbiener" <carbg@cmc.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pilgrim outfit MedicineBear: I have not gone to my first voo yet and am a bit apprehensive that I will be out of date, style, etc. Can I bring my commercial tanned bag, even if I don't have a gun yet? I have canvas, high waisted pants (Wah made) etc.. I did go out and buy all the "Book of Buckskinning" and have found them to be very good to keep up with the "pros" on this list and what they are talking about. I plan on going to a voo in Idaho in September, will probably stay at the modern camp (or God forbid a motel) as I do not have camping gear. Gail Carbiener (Doing living history of HBC trapper) ============================== - -----Original Message----- From: Frank <MedicineBear@Hawken54.sparks.nv.us> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Date: Wednesday, July 29, 1998 1:09 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pilgrim outfit >Hello the camp! > >On the subject of "starting out", I have often wished that some experienced >enterprising skinner would put together a web page with pictures showing their >"historically correct" possibles. Not every imaginable item but just the >basics needed to make a respectable outfit. Heck, others could post to this >site as they get pictures of their stuff. There's nothing like showing up to a >voo in your new outfit, full of expectations of a good time only to have those >with "well worn skins" look down their noses at you or worse, whisper and >point! Sure does take the fun out of a weekend. It's really hard sometimes to >imagine what a particular piece of gear or clothing looks like. I live where >there is virtually no one to look to for help and the books I have don't have >the best pictures. I imagine there are many greenhorns in the same fix. >Just a thought... > >Medicine Bear > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2098 17:28:24 -0700 From: "Gail Carbiener" <carbg@cmc.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pilgrim outfit This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_002F_022DD957.C667A9E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Capt: Thanks for the outline and advice. You make it sound like we = "newbees" will be welcome, and then can "see" what you experienced guys = look like. Gail Carbiener -----Original Message----- From: Roger Lahti <lahtirog@gte.net> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Date: Wednesday, July 29, 1998 4:07 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pilgrim outfit =20 =20 - ------=_NextPart_000_002F_022DD957.C667A9E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3DGENERATOR> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV>Capt:</DIV> <DIV> Thanks for the = outline and=20 advice. You make it sound like we "newbees" will be welcome, = and then=20 can "see" what you experienced guys look like.</DIV> <DIV>Gail = Carbiener</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: = 5px"> <DIV>-----Original = Message----- From:=20 Roger Lahti <<A=20 href=3D"mailto:lahtirog@gte.net">lahtirog@gte.net</A>> To: = <A=20 = href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com= </A>=20 <<A=20 = href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com= </A>> Date:=20 Wednesday, July 29, 1998 4:07 PM Subject: Re: = MtMan-List:=20 pilgrim outfit </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> - ------=_NextPart_000_002F_022DD957.C667A9E0-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 17:29:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Newbill <lnewbill@uidaho.edu> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: My reason for being on this list On Wed, 29 Jul 1998, Gail C Martini-Peterson wrote: <snip> > For 32 years I have taught the history of the Northwest along with > English, reading, and lots of other stuff. Therefore, one of my > specialties is Western history. I have a picture book about the Lewis > and Clark Expedition called TO SEE THE WHALE. <unsnip> Hallo Gail There are a couple of us here who enjoy the history of the PNW.. I was wondering if you would publish a list of your references that you have used in teaching? Regards Lee Newbill Viola, Idaho email at lnewbill@uidaho.edu Keeper of the "Buckskins & Blackpowder!" Webpage http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Gorge/7186 ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #109 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.