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Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 06:45:55 -0600
From: Mike Moore <amm1616@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Traps for cooking, Traps for trapping.
beaverboy,
I have not read Rex's latest article, but I do disagree with a couple
of your points.
1) traps were not set year round during the fur trade. The out of
prime plews made the effort not worth it during the warm months
and the time off gave the streams which weren't trapped out a chance
to recover (if they ever did).
2) never used a wrapped up trap for a pillow. In fact many other items
were mentioned as pillows, like saddles, coats and bags, but never traps.
Even folded, they have hard pointy ends which don't make for good sleeping.
3) while you are right about having the whole trap hanging from the tripod
(pretty awkward) chains, rope, rawhide and even cut sticks could have been
used. When you look at Miler's watercolors and a pot is used, probably a
wire or chain may have worked best because of the weight of the pot and
the contents. Traps were not put next to the fire, for fear of weakening the
springs, which are tempered.
4) alot of traps were cached when not in use. Since they were valuable, and
hard to carry- ever carried 6- 12 traps (new or old)? They are heavy, awkward
and bounce around against you or your horse unless packed tightly away and
padded. They leave bruises. Like with powder, lead, trade goods and other
items, caches contained alot of seasonal equipment. This didn't always make
them secure, but kept them from begin hauled around all year.
5) tacks, wire, chains and other repair items were availible in the west. And
the heating of a chain would not hurt it, unless it melted it.
mike.
beaverboy@sofast.net wrote:
> In Rex Allen Norman's recent article in the Muzzle Loader he mentions the
> use of a trap or trap chain as a cooking device for hanging pots over a
> fire. I hate to disagree with Rex who I have met and know to be a very
> knowledgable person but this is a big no no. Any trapper who knows
> anything would never place a trap anywhere near a fire and certainly not
> directly over it. No real trapper would take the chance of a very
> expensive trap falling into a bed of hot coals. This is "all looks"
> advice. He further states that he learned this "tip" from a AMM
> rendezvous. Evidently those boys are more busy cooking than setting traps.
> Traps would have been set for beaver year round if not they would have
> been guarded very near the trapper as they were very expensive (second
> only to his gun, seen anyone hanging a pot off of his barrel lately?).
> Some were wrapped and used as pillows when not in use. Most trappers owned
> only a few traps and they were set for what ever was around at the time
> not used for cooking or hung around camp for looks. I have yet to see a
> trap hanging over a fire pit in any old paintings. You don't see them in
> any old paintings, why? Because they were set somewhere for fur. Hey you
> guys, get a trapping license in your state, find a trapper to help you and
> go out a trap a beaver! If you do, you'll never let that trap out of your
> site again. And certainly won't cook with it!
> Sorry Rex, but I still love you and your articles.
> Beaverboy
>
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Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 07:11:42 -0600 (MDT)
From: <beaverboy@sofast.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: Beaver trapping year round
Dear Michael,
Mountain men and indians trapped beaver year round. Journal dates
prove this. They cared not one bit about wiping out the beaver. They
speared, netted, used dogs,snared, tore apart dens, drained ponds and shot
them. If you believe differently, your a romantic. The old "r" in the
month rule of thumb came along much later, the early 1900's I believe. In
one of Francois-Antoine Larocque's journal (1804) he talks of buying
beaver trapped by the indians in August. Not Argust. He only bought 20-30
beaver on that particular trip and the Indians said they thought he had
enough. I'm sure Francois didn't think he had enough, especially after
traveling all the way from eastern Canada to western North Dakota.
I would think the Mountain men followed this rule of thumb "If your
still alive, and theres beaver to trap, get them before someone else
does!" About the only thing that really stops a beaver trapper is thick
ice. This is one time it may not pay to try to trap. Try chopping a big
hole in 18" inches of hard ice for a beaver. This is the time the trappers
found winter quarters but still they probably looked for an easy beaver.
They also trapped fox and wolves at this time as stated in Chardon's
Journal of Fort Clark.
As a beaver trapper myself (my best year was 95 beaver while working a
full time job) I can speak from experience. The best trappers would rather
put out a few "good" sets then twice as many shappy sets. And a good
trapper never really rests until all his "boys" (traps) are home. A good
year is trapping and having fun, a great year is trapping, having fun and
not losing any traps! There's nothing worse than a trap thief. Ice flows
also have taken thier share of traps downriver. When I finally get them
home the last thing I'm going to do is hang them over a hot fire! Not
gonna happen and didn't happen. Hand forged traps back then cost up to or
more than the average mans monthly wage. They were guarded like thier guns
and horses when not set.
They trapped any beaver they came across on the way to rendezvous
too. More money to spend. I agree with you that winter prime pelts are
much better and do weigh more, thats a fact. High mountain streams are ice
cold year round so those beaver stay fairly good but not great. I know,
I've killed lots of nusance beaver year round for land owners. Luckily
today we have strict trapping regulations that prevent brutal methods and
ensure the taking of only prime pelts. Trappers today are much more humane
and knowledgable.
Rules of two sounds good. I like that. So trap beaver and otter with
that trap. But don't cook with it.
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Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:43:03 -0400
From: "Windwalker" <windwalker@fastmail.fm>
Subject: MtMan-List: Traps for Cooking? what a joke
I read the article with much 'grins". Im sure a lot of BP shooters do alot
of what they should not.
Apparently he was just adding to the "lore" of his knowledge on the subject.
First no trapper worth his salt would hand a trap from a campfire..
Inless, they never trapped and was a pup in das woods.
Traps are boiled, and dyied, then waxed... And KEPT away from everything
to avoid picking up scents.
How would one want "wax" dripping into his stew? Think not....
Im sure his tip came from a drunken weekend at a shoot..
Traps in 1800 on.. were a high prized item and handmade.. no trapper
would think of taking the temper outa the springs. Think about it...........
Copper boilers used sticks set on angle over a fire mostly...
Would i use a trap to hang say a pot?? Hell no.. its a real greenhorn thing
to even think of...
I shutter even thinking about my steel being done in such a ill reverent way.
One HAS to realize most of these articles one see,s in various publications
was meant for only one thing... Top get the Authors name in print, that's it..
A bragging right...So many don't take the time to learn a subject like say
trapping to even know much about it.. let alone enough to write a article on it.
If I has longlining with a partner, and came back to camp and seen him hanging
pots from MY traps... someone would take a butt whoopin real quick...And that
partner would be packing his pack outa country.
I find the article so funny its beyond belief..
He claims it as a tip at a rondy?? Now its a pasted on story of old and gospel
at that !
Ya got take a lot of these people for what they are... armchair campers, shooters
and certainly don't read much into history nor know nothing about trapping.
Ive had my laugh for the week on this one...
On 7 Jul 2002 at 22:52, beaverboy@sofast.net wrote:
> In Rex Allen Norman's recent article in the Muzzle Loader he mentions the
> use of a trap or trap chain as a cooking device for hanging pots over a
> fire. I hate to disagree with Rex who I have met and know to be a very
> knowledgable person but this is a big no no. Any trapper who knows
> anything would never place a trap anywhere near a fire and certainly not
> directly over it. No real trapper would take the chance of a very
> expensive trap falling into a bed of hot coals. This is "all looks"
> advice. He further states that he learned this "tip" from a AMM
> rendezvous. Evidently those boys are more busy cooking than setting traps.
> Traps would have been set for beaver year round if not they would have
> been guarded very near the trapper as they were very expensive (second
> only to his gun, seen anyone hanging a pot off of his barrel lately?).
> Some were wrapped and used as pillows when not in use. Most trappers owned
> only a few traps and they were set for what ever was around at the time
> not used for cooking or hung around camp for looks. I have yet to see a
> trap hanging over a fire pit in any old paintings. You don't see them in
> any old paintings, why? Because they were set somewhere for fur. Hey you
> guys, get a trapping license in your state, find a trapper to help you and
> go out a trap a beaver! If you do, you'll never let that trap out of your
> site again. And certainly won't cook with it!
> Sorry Rex, but I still love you and your articles.
> Beaverboy
>
>
>
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Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 23:18:18 GMT
From: tetontodd@juno.com
Subject: Re:MtMan-List: Traps for Cooking? what a joke
WindWalker,
I'd like to touch on one point you mentioned. I have wondered about the Mountaineers dyeing and waxing their traps. I know it is common practice now-a-days, but what evidence have you come by that they did it historically? Just curious.
Teton
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Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 20:25:29 -0400
From: "Windwalker" <windwalker@fastmail.fm>
Subject: Re:MtMan-List: Traps for Cooking? what a joke
Cleaning rust from traps is a must before setting.
Also dying. it helps kill the scent.
As for waxing. I find no reference to MM having done so.
But Im sure some did.
Dying traps goes all the way back, as boing does to release the rust
ans kill the scent as best as possible.
One MUSt know it was not the mountain men "who invented the trap"
Pre MM era traps were used in Northern Regions, as well as deadfalls ect
The mountain man only cashed in on the trade.. As Hats were being made
at the time and were in high demand.
Back east traps were handmade items, and were used prior MM era.
{See Williamsburg Journals}
Pans and pivot pins do not function well with rust coating only.
The whole practice was to light coat a trap with rust to hold the dye..
And not allow a heavy "cake" of rust to build, therefore ruining the trap
.Waxing was a more in "Fort Practice" when wax was available.
Wax sealed traps from rust for shipment, when the traps were being
made in volume.
On 8 Jul 2002 at 23:18, tetontodd@juno.com wrote:
> WindWalker,
>
> I'd like to touch on one point you mentioned. I have wondered about the Mountaineers dyeing and waxing their traps. I know it is common practice now-a-days, but what evidence have you come by that they did it historically? Just curious.
>
> Teton
>
>
>
>
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