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hist_text-digest        Monday, April 15 2002        Volume 01 : Number 1020



In this issue:

-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Half Round Shelter
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Half Round Shelter
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Half Round Shelter
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Half Round Shelter
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Too Quiet
-áááááá MtMan-List: FW: Auction

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Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 16:19:43 -0600
From: Mike Moore <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Half Round Shelter

Wynn,
    We found that once you cut and bend the saplings, you
might as well use the over again and again. Being prebent and
made the way you want them makes the shelter go up more
quickly the next time.
    Personally I think the half round shelter was used by only
a fraction of the people in the west. And then in pairs when
set up for a while in a spot. It was a great simple shelter since
all the materials could be had at most places easily. Trappers
used willow and other small trees all the time in camp, the skins
came from animals shot for daily meat (and it did take a few days
to get enough skins for one) when used in pairs you can still have
a fire close to it and the skins wouldn't catch fire. You could  use it for

a while and then discard the set up. A very practical notion in that time.
    For us today, it would be best to reuse the stakes and bent poles.
String and rope work better than rawhide strips. And the tanned hides
(half tanned or rawhide) is probably not as easy to use as canvas. When
you compare the half round shelter to other shelters used by whites, the
Indian
influence is seen. It does look, work and act like a sweat lodge (when in a

pair) or a small earth lodge.
    I don't like to use the half shelter, since the wind always changes on
me
and blows in. It had better be tied down well then! I can't say much about
lean tos.
Parkman and Miller's camps had simple sun shades which were close. Thes
were
make with blankets I do like to use lean tos. Easy, light and adaptable.
                                                        mike.

"Gretchen H. Ormond" wrote:

> All the talk about one pole tents reminds me of the problem of the half
> round shelters.  Has anyone come up with a way to use one?  If I
> understand it correctly a person would have to cut down or butcher a
> large number of saplings.  In the modern times that could get you in
> some trouble with the forrest service but it would seem inconvenient
> even in in the 1800's.  Saplings are not always available to a camp
> site.
>
> Why would they have used these instead of a lean-to (sp)?  Is there any
> records of lean-tos?
>
> Wynn Ormond
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 22:24:16 -0600
From: Allen Hall <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Half Round Shelter

Wynn,

We've made a couple of these and they're ok.  They take some work, but the
willows found in stream banks are plentiful enough to do it.  At Fort
Bridger the park superintendant urged us to cut some of her willows for one!

We built one at Fort B a few years back and it held up to some heavy wet
snow.  I guess it took Crazy, Yaro, a couple of others and me about 2 hours
to build it.

Like Mike said, I doubt they were used a whole bunch, but they will work.
Also as Mike noted, you can transport them.  Ask Crazy about that
sometime.......

Allen

At 07:47 AM 4/13/2002 -0600, you wrote:
>All the talk about one pole tents reminds me of the problem of the half
>round shelters.  Has anyone come up with a way to use one?  If I
>understand it correctly a person would have to cut down or butcher a
>large number of saplings.  In the modern times that could get you in
>some trouble with the forrest service but it would seem inconvenient
>even in in the 1800's.  Saplings are not always available to a camp
>site.
>
>Why would they have used these instead of a lean-to (sp)?  Is there any
>records of lean-tos?
>
>Wynn Ormond
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
>


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Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 08:22:18 -0600
From: Ole Jensen <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Half Round Shelter

on 4/13/02 10:24 PM, Allen Hall at [e-mail] wrote:

> Wynn,
>
> We've made a couple of these and they're ok.  They take some work, but the
> willows found in stream banks are plentiful enough to do it.  At Fort
> Bridger the park superintendant urged us to cut some of her willows for one!
>
> We built one at Fort B a few years back and it held up to some heavy wet
> snow.  I guess it took Crazy, Yaro, a couple of others and me about 2 hours
> to build it.
>
> Like Mike said, I doubt they were used a whole bunch, but they will work.
> Also as Mike noted, you can transport them.  Ask Crazy about that
> sometime.......
>
> Allen
>
> At 07:47 AM 4/13/2002 -0600, you wrote:
>> All the talk about one pole tents reminds me of the problem of the half
>> round shelters.  Has anyone come up with a way to use one?  If I
>> understand it correctly a person would have to cut down or butcher a
>> large number of saplings.  In the modern times that could get you in
>> some trouble with the forrest service but it would seem inconvenient
>> even in in the 1800's.  Saplings are not always available to a camp
>> site.
>>
>> Why would they have used these instead of a lean-to (sp)?  Is there any
>> records of lean-tos?
>>
>> Wynn Ormond
>>
>>
>> ----------------------
>> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>>
>>
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
Allen/Wynn
Looking through my copy of Millers field sketches I saw the following.
1. Crossing the River: moonlight
    shows a wedge tent with two men in front of it starting a fire.
2. Our Camp
    shows a wedge tent eith the end open so that you can see one of the
    poles it also apears as if the canvas is striped. There is also another
    wedge tent in the back ground of similar style.
3. Catching up
    Due to the size of the tent it apears to be taller than a wedge and
    shorter than a lodge, if the man standing in front of the tent
    is say 5'5" tall than this tent would be about 9' tall. If I were to set
    up my small conical tent it would look exactly like the drawing. The
    connical that I use is a true one pole tent. If John Kramer would post
    one of his pictures from last years work party on our land you would
    see the same tent with John,Ferrel and I in front of it cooking a
    meal.
Ole


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Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 11:15:25 -0500
From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Half Round Shelter

As Miller painted nothing to scale in perspective (like a draughtsman
might), as Miller mostly painted the camp and men hired by his Patron, as
the tent in question is a background element of questionable parentage, I
consider this entire discussion a bit silly.

If you want the picture you requested it along with all the others I've had
posted since the land work party remain at:
http://www.kcnet.com/~kramers/images/

Knock yourself out.

John...


At 09:22 AM 4/14/02, OLE wrote:
>3. Catching up
>     Due to the size of the tent it apears to be taller than a wedge and
>     shorter than a lodge, if the man standing in front of the tent
>     is say 5'5" tall than this tent would be about 9' tall. If I were to set
>     up my small conical tent it would look exactly like the drawing. The
>     connical that I use is a true one pole tent. If John Kramer would post
>     one of his pictures from last years work party on our land you would
>     see the same tent with John,Ferrel and I in front of it cooking a
>     meal.
>Ole

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The suggestion that political correctness stems from
noble motives is like suggesting that bullies are simply striving to
stamp out human frailty."  Kate the Elder 2002



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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 12:32:57 -0500
From: jdearing <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Too Quiet

>
>The french and english both had a conical one pole tent that would sleep up
>to 8 men.
>Ole
>

Well Ole, I've heard that for a long time, but  NO ONE seems to know where
this story
originated.

I've done allot of research for the F&I and Rev War periods, and I have
never seen anything
showing or describing a one pole tent, other than the belle of arms.

Again, where is your documentation for this statement? If ya got it I
really would like to see it.
J.D.


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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 17:21:19 -0700
From: "Randal Bublitz" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: FW: Auction

<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=windows-1251">
<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid">
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT size=2>
<P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Brothers,    Thanks to Crazy Cyot I learned a new trick.  I have started posting pictures of items that will be auctioned at the National.  This auction is open to all.  Spread the word.  We'll take snail mail, e- mail, phone, etc...bids until I leave for the National.  Any bids received by then will be the minimum bids once at the National.  I'm just learning this , so be patient please.  I posted pics of the brain tanned deer hides, the buffalo powder horn, and a print.  I'll be posting more pics.  If I had more stuff, I could post more pics.....   Send me donations guys...please....   I'll see you at the National on Our Land.   YFAB, Randy</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Here's the site:   <A href="http://www.cartogra.com/home/ViewMyAlbum.asp?coll_id=1513822">http://www.cartogra.com/home/ViewMyAlbum.asp?coll_id=1513822</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>--- Randal Bublitz</DIV>
<DIV>--- <A href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A></DIV>
<DIV>we have NOT inherited the Earth from our fathers,</DIV>
<DIV>we are Borrowing it from our Children</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<P></P></FONT>
<P></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>--- Randal Bublitz</DIV>
<DIV>--- <A href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A></DIV>
<DIV>we have NOT inherited the Earth from our fathers,</DIV>
<DIV>we are Borrowing it from our Children</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML>


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End of hist_text-digest V1 #1020
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