Subject: Re: MtMan-List: water containers and compasses
> I carry a gourd canteen lined with beeswax.
Again, sounds right to me. That is what I use, and that particular
type is listed in one of the Books of Buckskinning... I THINK it is
#6... or 7... They also mention the wood and tin...
Regards,
Ad
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Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:12:51 -0500
From: "Addison Miller" <admiller@citynet.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: button choice
Bone, horn, pewter (if before 1800), antler, wood.... sounds right to
me...
Regards,
Ad
> I am having made a hand sewn light weight summer shirt (gets pretty
hot here
> in West Texas)it is made of a hemp cotton blend and is ivory white.
What
> would be correct to use as buttons, or is that getting too picky
> frank
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Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 10:49:45 EST
From: JimInTexas1962@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: button choice
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for your buttons I would use mother of pearl,horn,antler,pewter,or wood. Any
of these buttons would be corect,and would look good too . Know all about
S.Texas summers as I live in Victoria county,and can honestlly say that I
dont blame you for the light shirt idea(they are what I wear)
Jim Branson
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0">for your buttons I would use mother of pearl,horn,antler,pewter,or wood. Any of these buttons would be corect,and would look good too . Know all about S.Texas summers as I live in Victoria county,and can honestlly say that I dont blame you for the light shirt idea(they are what I wear)<BR>
Jim Branson</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 09:10:57 -0500
From: "Tim J." <tjewell@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: water containers and compasses
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From: JOAQUINQS@aol.com
what type of water containers do some of you use, wood canteens, copper, leather,gourd or animal products , buffalo stomachs etc....or what. I realize travel was done hopefully along water ways, but nowadays we need to carry water so what do you use and what info do you have on it. I carry a gourd canteen lined with beeswax.
I am interested in getting a compass what would you suggest, did they use them at all, i havent read any material supporting a compass, but would like to get a lewis and clark or even a jefferson compass, again what are your thoughts
Hi Frank,
In reading through the journals and trade lists on Dean's Mt. Man list home page and from other sources, the only references to canteens in the mountains that I have seen are for iron bound wood. Any of those you listed are generally acceptable depending on the level of authenticity you are striving for. The wood, copper and leather were available in the settlements, as was tin. Buffalo stomachs were available to/from the Plains Indians and gourds were available from the more eastern tribes that lived in more settle villages.
The issue of carrying water and refilling on the trail has been *actively* debated here before. The prevailing opinion has been that some from of filtration/purification is a modern necessity. Keep what ever you use for water treatment out of site and use it as discreetly as possible. As the great Marshall Rooster Cogburn said, I have yet to meet a Texan that hasn't drunk out of a muddy hoof print. There are some, even today that will take there chances, but having drank from a contaminated stream once myself I now treat my drinking water. For 3 days I thought I was going to turn inside out through my backside... it sounds funny now but it wasn't then.
As far as compasses are concerned, either style would be acceptable. Period references show compasses mostly being carried by brigade/expedition leaders and explorers, as opposed to the common trapper.
To sum it up... for either item; acceptable today, available in the mountains then, little documented use by the common trapper.
Just my humble opinions,
YMHOS,
Tim
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Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 01:43:12 EST
From: LivingInThePast@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: button choice
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In a message dated 3/23/2002 8:51:18 PM Pacific Standard Time,
JOAQUINQS@aol.com writes:
> What would be correct to use as buttons, or is that getting too picky
>
...old mexican coins (perfect for your area), antler, bone, pewter, or
copper. I guess it depends on your persona..... Barn
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT COLOR="#0000a0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B>In a message dated 3/23/2002 8:51:18 PM Pacific Standard Time, JOAQUINQS@aol.com writes:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">What would be correct to use as buttons, or is that getting too picky<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000a0" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B><BR>
...old mexican coins (perfect for your area), antler, bone, pewter, or copper. I guess it depends on your persona..... Barn</B></FONT></HTML>
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Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 01:38:51 EST
From: LivingInThePast@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: water containers and compasses
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In a message dated 3/23/2002 9:00:21 PM Pacific Standard Time,
JOAQUINQS@aol.com writes:
<<what type of water containers do some of you use>>
Frank, For water I too carry a bees-wax lined gourd; for whiskey a small
tin-lined copper 'lentil' shaped canteen. I tried one of the wooden canteens
but found it heavy and uncomfortable compared to the gourd.
<< in getting a compass what would you suggest>>
I found a combo compass/sundial to be both compact and convenient. My second
one was a "Rogers Rangers" style and is what I carry in my haversack as it's
nearly indestructible. The first one I got is similar to the Jefferson, but
with a string gnomen and brass time bezel around the compass. It's mounted in
a walnut box, and though I intended on carrying it, but it turned out to be
too danged pretty so it's on display at home!
Barney
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT COLOR="#0000a0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B>In a message dated 3/23/2002 9:00:21 PM Pacific Standard Time, JOAQUINQS@aol.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></B><<what type of water containers do some of you use>><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000a0" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B>Frank, For water I too carry a bees-wax lined gourd; for whiskey a small tin-lined copper 'lentil' shaped canteen. I tried one of the wooden canteens but found it heavy and uncomfortable compared to the gourd.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></B><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<< in getting a compass what would you suggest>><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000a0" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B>I found a combo compass/sundial to be both compact and convenient. My second one was a "Rogers Rangers" style and is what I carry in my haversack as it's nearly indestructible. The first one I got is similar to the Jefferson, but with a string gnomen and brass time bezel around the compass. It's mounted in a walnut box, and though I intended on carrying it, but it turned out to be too danged pretty so it's on display at home!<BR>
<BR>
Barney</B></FONT></HTML>
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Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 21:50:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Jon Towns <amm944@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: button choice
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your getting to picky you could use a loop and tab make butttons out of flattened round balls most people don't research down to that picky hand sewen shirt is enough until later jon towns
JOAQUINQS@aol.com wrote: I am having made a hand sewn light weight summer shirt (gets pretty hot here in West Texas)it is made of a hemp cotton blend and is ivory white. What would be correct to use as buttons, or is that getting too picky
frank
Until later Jon Towns
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<P> your getting to picky you could use a loop and tab make butttons out of flattened round balls most people don't research down to that picky hand sewen shirt is enough until later jon towns
<P> <B><I>JOAQUINQS@aol.com</I></B> wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT lang=0 face=Arial size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF">I am having made a hand sewn light weight summer shirt (gets pretty hot here in West Texas)it is made of a hemp cotton blend and is ivory white. What would be correct to use as buttons, or is that getting too picky<BR><BR>frank</FONT> </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT><BR><BR><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=4>Until later Jon Towns</FONT><p><br><hr size=1><b>Do You Yahoo!?</b><br>
<a href="$rd_url/tag/http://movies.yahoo.com/">Yahoo! Movies</a> - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards«
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Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 21:25:04 -0800
From: "rtlahti" <rtlahti@msn.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: button choice
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Frank,
I don't know what would be correct but I like bone buttons and cow horn =
buttons. They are both easy to make if you can't find them ready made at =
some rendezvous. Cut them from flat stock with a hole saw without the =
pilot bit in place. Drill a couple small holes for thread, decorate with =
some simple carved design and buff them up. They are light weigh, =
elegant in their simplicity and probably go way back.
YMOS
Capt. Lahti'
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<DIV><FONT size=3D2>....Lewis and Clark compasses are available as =
reproductions=20
from Monticello (you can order through their website, <A=20
href=3D"http://www.monticello.org">www.monticello.org</A>) or from the =
Portage=20
Cache gift shop at the National Lewis and Clark Historic Trail =
Interpretive=20
Center in Great Falls, MT.... </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Dr. John L. =
Allen<BR></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:13:34 -0600
From: "FrankF" <frankf@cox-internet.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: button choice
the other frank asked,
<What
would be correct to use as buttons, or is that getting too picky>
There are those, who in the pursuit of authenticity, will say one can
never get too picky.
Your choice(s) should be based on what period and personna you are
trying to emulate. Finer eastern clothes often had pewter, as did Rev.
period soldiers. Into the frontier and mountains anything that worked was
used. There were tools that homesteaders and merchants used to cut buttons
from flattened horn. Bone was popular. Imported buttons were made from
mussels. Wood, leather, whatever suits yer fancy as long as it fits the
period and character you choose.
Frank G. Fusco
Mountain Home, Arkansas
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/ozarksmuzzleloaders
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Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 01:45:45 EST
From: GazeingCyot@cs.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: water containers and compasses
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Seeings how every one is getting in on this one I might as well join in.
For water container I use the copper canteen now. I have tried gourds and
have had nothing but bad luck with them. Ether they have been broken on the
trail or the wax gets broke loose in side making the water taste bad. Don't
like them and would use one again. I haven't tried leather but I have friends
that have and they had troubles with them leaking after some abuse. Tin works
well but the one I had rusted on the inside after a while so I quit using it.
So far the tin lined copper has held up the best.
As for a compasses what I use is when the sun comes up in the morning I point
my noes towards it, North is on my left South is on my right. When it's late
in the day and it's going down same thing only North is on the right and
South is on the left. Hasn't failed me yet and never breaks.
See ya on the trail
Crazy Cyot
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Seeings how every one is getting in on this one I might as well join in.
<BR>For water container I use the copper canteen now. I have tried gourds and have had nothing but bad luck with them. Ether they have been broken on the trail or the wax gets broke loose in side making the water taste bad. Don't like them and would use one again. I haven't tried leather but I have friends that have and they had troubles with them leaking after some abuse. Tin works well but the one I had rusted on the inside after a while so I quit using it. So far the tin lined copper has held up the best.
<BR>
<BR>As for a compasses what I use is when the sun comes up in the morning I point my noes towards it, North is on my left South is on my right. When it's late in the day and it's going down same thing only North is on the right and South is on the left. Hasn't failed me yet and never breaks.
<BR>
<BR>See ya on the trail
<BR>Crazy Cyot
<BR>
<BR></FONT></HTML>
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Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 23:14:57 -0700
From: "Thomas Ballstaedt" <tphsb@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: water containers and compasses
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hang that gourd water container on the wall where it belongs as a =
decoration. it will most certainly fail you at the most critical =
moment. get a good copper or tin model. they are a bit pricy, but =
they are your safest bet. =20
tom
----- Original Message -----=20
From: JOAQUINQS@aol.com=20
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20
Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2002 8:08 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: water containers and compasses
what type of water containers do some of you use, wood canteens, =
copper, leather,gourd or animal products , buffalo stomachs etc....or =
what. I realize travel was done hopefully along water ways, but =
nowadays we need to carry water so what do you use and what info do you =
have on it. I carry a gourd canteen lined with beeswax.
I am interested in getting a compass what would you suggest, did they =
use them at all, i havent read any material supporting a compass, but =
would like to get a lewis and clark or even a jefferson compass, again =
what are your thoughts
Frank Sablan
Odessa,Texas=20
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thanks everyone for your input, i will read again the post and decide what i
want to use.
frank sablan
odessa,texas
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">thanks everyone for your input, i will read again the post and decide what i want to use.<BR>
<BR>
frank sablan<BR>
odessa,texas</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:51:58 -0500
From: hikingonthru@cs.com
Subject: MtMan-List: WAS: water containers NOW Prepping gourds
"Addison Miller" <admiller@citynet.net> wrote:
>> I carry a gourd canteen lined with beeswax.
This is for those who know how to manufacture gourd canteens. Once the gourds are dried and ready for cleaning, how do you all ensure that the inside is cleaned out well. This is easy if you are just making a bowl or a gourd-half canteen (try to find 2 that are near approximate circumference - what a task). BUT what about those carrying bottle gourds or some other type with just the cork hole in them. How do y'all clean them?
- -C.Kent
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Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:56:21 -0500
From: "Dennis Earp" <96mfg@hspower.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Goin to Ronnyvous
Ad,
Which one are you going to?
Dennis
> Well y'all... Mouse and me are leavin the mountains fer tha Vous down
> Georgia way... If'in's any of yer are down that way, be sure to stop
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Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:59:18 -0800
From: ALAN AVERY <aravery@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: water containers and compasses
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"...As for a compasses what I use is when the sun comes up in the =
morning I point my noes towards it, North is on my left South is on my =
right. When it's late in the day and it's going down same thing only =
North is on the right and South is on the left. Hasn't failed me yet and =
never breaks.=20
See ya on the trail=20
Crazy Cyot ..."
This may be the most accurate assessment of compass use among the =
mountain men. Most of the documentation I have seen about compass use =
seems to be in reference to "visitors" in the mountains, not to the =
mountain men themselves. IMHO, I believe that they probably oriented =
themselves exactly Crazy has described above. I have also read about =
mountain men using a specific landmark to navigate by, i.e. heading for =
a prominent peak off in the distance.
As for canteens, no one has yet mentioned my favorite, which, although =
not exactly PC, looks and works very well. I have a WW2 surplus military =
canteen.(British I think) It is a virtual duplicate of the =
"kidney-style" F & I / Revwar type canteens, except that it is enamelled =
metal, which is then covered with blanketing. The only enamelled part =
that showed was about an inch of the neck, (I ground the enamel off that =
part with a Dremel. The result is an authentic looking canteen, that =
doesn't rust, and even keeps the water cool if one wets the blanketing. =
As previously mentioned in this thread, there is documentation of the =
use of this canteen style. Yes, it is a compromise, but water is serious =
business, and since we can't just drink from any stream or water source =
anymore,(as the mountain men did) I offer it up as possible solution to =
the question. These canteens still turn up in surplus stores once in a =
while. Saint Mark of Baker even mentioned having one in his column a few =
years back, so it MUST be OK! <G> Seriously, it has passed muster at =
various rendezvous and even some juried events for some years now. (not =
AMM events though, and if the concept of using such an item gives =
offence, I apologize.)
Black Knife
Alan Avery
BTW Frank, what's wrong with using one of those excellent leather =
canteens that you build? =20
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