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hist_text-digest         Sunday, June 28 1998         Volume 01 : Number 094




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 11:23:10 -0400
From: Linda Holley <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: WANTED ADD.....1876

Thought all of you might like a last word on Custer....this came out of the old

Buckskin Report, of which I was a proud member....miss that magazine.

WANTED:
     Young man, age 25-40.  Must be fleet of foot and not unduly modest.  To
participate in totally authentic re-enactment.  Interested parties please
contact the Blackfoot Tribal
Council regarding the John Coulter Memorial Run.

Dear Sir:
    Your name has been sent to us a s a collector of U.S. Calvary memorabilia.
We cordially invite you to an exciting centennial celebration.   This event is
to take place in scenic south-eastern Montana and along the lovely river known
in past days as the Greasy Grass.  You are asked to appear at this place in
uniform and with mount if possible on June 25, 1976.  After the re-enactment,
which is to be very authentic, dancing and appropriate celebrations will be
held.  For further information you may contact the Cheyenne and Sioux Nations.

                                                    Sincerely
                                                  Mr. C. Horse,
                                                Activities Chairman

From Linda Holley....an old grey beard.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 09:43:59 -0700
From: "Gail Carbiener" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Custer Comments (last word, I promise)

    Was there last week (prior to reenactment). Grass is green, flowers
everywhere. I asked the seemingly knowledgeable Indian park service employee
what she thought was the best book that tells the Indian version. Her
recommendation "Hokahey! A good Day to Die" by Richard Hardorff, published
by Arthur H. Clark.
Gail
========================================

  By far, the best treatment of the LBH
>episode is John S. Gray's _Centennial Campaign: The Sioux War of 1876_ (Old
>Army Press, 1976.
>
>Ok, THIS is my last word on Custer.
>
>Let's talk about Bent's Fort.
>
>Cheers,
>HBC
>
>*****************************************
>Henry B. Crawford        Curator of History
>[e-mail]     Museum of Texas Tech University
>806/742-2442           Box 43191
>FAX [phone]             Lubbock, TX  79409-3191
>               WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
>******  Living History . . . Because it's there!  *******
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 12:37:32 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Joe Brandl)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: WANTED ADD.....1876

Great Ad,  Linda
Joe

Absaroka Western Designs and Tannery
Call us about our professional home tanning kit-307-455-2440
Write for custom tanning prices
We produce rawhide lampshades and carry a large selection of leather and
hair on robes
Fine lodgepole furniture, pillows, Indian reproductions, paintings, baskets
check out our new web site: http://www.onpages.com/absaroka

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 21:37:16 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Ted A Hart)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Visit Canada's fur trade historic sites

Been to Canada quite a few times!  Love B.C. and Ontario(some parts of it
anyway), and also visited Thunder Bay, Ontario.  Gas is expensive!  What
goes for $12 dollars worth is actually $28 dollars worth in Canada!  That
was nearly three to four years ago so it might be different now.

Ted

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 21:37:16 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Ted A Hart)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Custer Comments

I've heard that an Chippewa named Bug (shortening of his actual name) who
led the last Indian battle against soldiers.  Don't know the actual story
and the dates either.  Anyone know about this?  Apparently this wasn't a
huge battle but was the last actual battle but then again I'm thinking
about the "Willie" boy story in the West.  Anyone know anything about
that one as well?

Ted

_____________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 19:27:26 -0700
From: [e-mail] (john c funk,jr)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Have we forgotten the mountain men?

THANK YOU, LANNY.

Maybe some will get the hint............This is still a pre 1840 Fur
Trade list.

Man is judged not so much by the friends he keeps but by the ones that
will call him friend.

_____________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 19:27:26 -0700
From: [e-mail] (john c funk,jr)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Have we forgotten the mountain men?

THANK YOU, LANNY.

Maybe some will get the hint............This is still a pre 1840 Fur
Trade list.

Man is judged not so much by the friends he keeps but by the ones that
will call him friend.

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 20:34:57 -0500
From: "Michael Branson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Custer Comments

Mr. Despain you said that quite well, I know this is a line about Mtn Men
but I'm sure it won't hurt to spend a day or so on this topic. I totally
agree with your comments.

A History teacher and still a student
Michael Branson
- -----Original Message-----
From: S.M.Despain-1 <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Thursday, June 25, 1998 7:34 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: Custer Comments


>[e-mail] wrote:
>>
>> In a message dated 98-06-24 01:48:46 EDT, you write:
>>
>> <<      [e-mail] (Gary Bell) >>
>> gary the day custer was rubbed out they played gary owen and other tunes
in
>> the band custer had with him alwats on his marches so im told . his
campaines
>> wre extravagant rituals with full marching band so im told. as he was a
bit of
>> an egocintric basturd.      iron tounge
>
>To All:
>
>I know this is a buckskinners group and hope I'm not overstepping the
>bounds of discussion or beating a dead horse here (the only known
>survivor of Custer's detachment was "Comanche," a Morgan now stuffed and
>on display in Kansas somewhere) but Custer did not have his band with
>him on the Little Big Horn fight.  Yes, he did take it with him on his
>winter campaign of 1868 that ended with the attack on Black Kettle's
>Southern Cheyenne camp on the Washita River, the same Black Kettle that
>Chivington of the Colorado Militia brutally attacked on Sand Creek in
>1864.  Also, the entire command was not rubbed out on the Little Big
>Horn.  Marcus Reno's and Fred Benteen's groups held a defensive high
>ground up stream from last stand hill for a few days until the arrival
>of the main command up the Big Horn.  Lastly, I am no fan of Custer, but
>he has become the major scapegoat for a society seeking to ease its
>concience.  He was merely and agent, be it an eccentric one, following
>the orders and dictates of a society caught in the throws of Manifest
>Destiny where natives stood as a barrior to the predenstined course of
>the Anglo-American race in the American mind.
>
>
>About the Town of Garryowen,  its a blink and you'll miss it type for
>sure.  It is where the upper end of the Indian camp was, where Reno's
>forces attacked and were driven back across the L. Big Horn to
>Reno/Benteen hill.
>
>Works of interest:
>
>Richard Slotkin, The Fatal Environment (puts the last stand in
>cultural constructs of the day)
>Stan Hoig, Battle of the Washita
>Robert Utly, ed., Life in Custer's Cavalry (about 1868 Winter Campaigns)
>Kenneth Hammer, ed.,  Custer in 76 (primary accounts from the survivors)
>Elizabeth Custer, Boots and Saddles
>______,  Following the Guidon
>___ Grey,  Cenntenial Campaign
>Jay Monahan, The life of George A. Custer
>
>These are all of the top of my head. I know there are more.  Those
>interested in other works about Custer contact me.
>
>
>Matt Despain
>Dept. of History
>University of Oklahoma
>[e-mail]
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 23:01:02 -0500
From: "Ken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Buckles and such

Howdy the list,
I just received a buckle and belt that Iron Tongue made for me. First class
work! All handmade and the quality is some of the best I have seen
anywhere. Thought I would pass this along to the list in case anyone is
looking for this kind of gear. Stout enough to carry a knife, hawk, or
anything else you might want to hang on it!
YMDS,
YellowFeather

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 01:06:07 EDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Custer Comments

In a message dated 98-06-25 20:34:23 EDT, you write:

<<     [e-mail] (S.M.Despain-1) >>
thanks for beating the dead horse to death it was im portant to me to find out
the iformation. im not sorry for bringing it up and thanks again for your well
reasearched  comment. iron tounge

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 01:27:52 EDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Have we forgotten the mountain men?

im having trouble getting my flint and fire started. list some times i can get
it and others i cant. my char cloth is one of the secrets !!!???? i can get
flint sparks . ican get char cloth to ignite but thats as far as it goes i
usualy give up and take my oxy on my torch and squirt a little of oxy on it
and away it goes . i do this on aregular basisis to start my forge and keep in
practice but im doing some thing or all things rong.      iron tounge

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 01:27:52 EDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Have we forgotten the mountain men?

im having trouble getting my flint and fire started. list some times i can get
it and others i cant. my char cloth is one of the secrets !!!???? i can get
flint sparks . ican get char cloth to ignite but thats as far as it goes i
usualy give up and take my oxy on my torch and squirt a little of oxy on it
and away it goes . i do this on aregular basisis to start my forge and keep in
practice but im doing some thing or all things rong.      iron tounge

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 04:59:49 -0500
From: Bishnow <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Have we forgotten the mountain men?

[e-mail] wrote:
>
> im having trouble getting my flint and fire started. list some times i can get
> it and others i cant. my char cloth is one of the secrets !!!???? i can get
> flint sparks . ican get char cloth to ignite but thats as far as it goes i
> usualy give up and take my oxy on my torch and squirt a little of oxy on it
> and away it goes . i do this on aregular basisis to start my forge and keep in
> practice but im doing some thing or all things rong.      iron tounge


I'd say you were doing a fine job. Keep it up.
I've been deleting the custer but my fingers getting tired.

Snakeshot

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 11:23:29 -0400
From: Linda Holley <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Have we forgotten the mountain men?

We have not forgotten that this is a pre 1840 Trade list, but sometime you
have to go a bit into the future to understand the past.

Linda Holley

john c funk,jr wrote:

> THANK YOU, LANNY.
>
> Maybe some will get the hint............This is still a pre 1840 Fur
> Trade list.
>
> Man is judged not so much by the friends he keeps but by the ones that
> will call him friend.
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 13:16:20 -0700
From: tigrbo1 <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: MESSAGE TO SCOTT ALLEN

My apologies to the list for posting this message, alas I was unable to
post Scott directly.  Terry

Hi Scott,

        Terry & Judith Smith here, we live in north seattle and would
love to
meet with you on your visit to the area. Will you be in Tacoma or
Seattle?, where are you staying? and when in the day will you be free?
Our Phone # is 206-362-0647. The answering machine will say "You have
reached Ravin' Raven, I'm out making art rigth now ect.,ect.,ect. please
leave a message at the beep", so don't be suprised by it. Hope to here
from you soon.

Best regards,

Terry

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 18:40:42 EDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Have we forgotten the mountain men?

just take it easy and dont get your trowsers in  a bind. iron tounge

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 17:12:08 -0700
From: Hugh Hendrix <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: New Address

- --------------1FB54D53DDE2346765DDB35C
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi,

I'm in the process of changing my e-mail from [e-mail] to:
[e-mail]

Please update your address book.

Regards


- --------------1FB54D53DDE2346765DDB35C
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML>
Hi,

<P>I'm in the process of changing my e-mail from [e-mail] to:
<BR><B>[e-mail]</B>

<P>Please update your address book.

<P>Regards
<BR> </HTML>

- --------------1FB54D53DDE2346765DDB35C--

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 21:32:44 -0600
From: Forrest Smouse <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Have we forgotten the mountain men?

Iron Tounge,
I haveseen this problem before(char not taking the spark), Its usually
the char. Its been stated here before, most if not all cloth sold today
has a fire retardent on it. Years ago I used rock sample bag for my char
and they always worked great. One day I got some new bags(same brand)
and after charing them I couldn't catch a single spark.  Found out they
had fire retardent on them too. If you can find them try lamp wicks,
they work great.

Forrest


[e-mail] wrote:
>
> im having trouble getting my flint and fire started. list some times i can get
> it and others i cant. my char cloth is one of the secrets !!!???? i can get
> flint sparks . ican get char cloth to ignite but thats as far as it goes i
> usualy give up and take my oxy on my torch and squirt a little of oxy on it
> and away it goes . i do this on aregular basisis to start my forge and keep in
> practice but im doing some thing or all things rong.      iron tounge

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 21:09:55 -0700
From: "Gail Carbiener" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Making Beaver bate....

Okay... this newbie needs help.........

    Can someone tell me or refer me to the way beaver bate would have been
made in the 1800s? Also how is it presented to the beaver?

    DeVoto's book on Lewis and Clark talks about the "castor" or "bark
stone" as the base material. To this you add nutmeg, cloves and
cinimon(sic). Then add spirits to make it the consistancy of mustard.
    I may have to study the anatomy of a male beaver.... do they have musk
glands or are these their balls? DeVoto says the male beaver has "six" of
these stones. Oh boy!
    Is this thick fluid then put on the end of a stick and placed over the
underwater trap?

Gail
The living history Mt Man

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 23:38:45 -0500
From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Have we forgotten the mountain men?

At 01:27 AM 6/27/98 -0400, you wrote:
>im having trouble getting my flint and fire started. list some times i can
get
>it and others i cant. my char cloth is one of the secrets !!!???? i can get
>flint sparks . ican get char cloth to ignite but thats as far as it goes i
>usualy give up and take my oxy on my torch and squirt a little of oxy on it
>and away it goes . i do this on aregular basisis to start my forge and
keep in
>practice but im doing some thing or all things rong.=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 iron=
 tounge
>=20

What are you using for tinder?

If you have spark in the char the next step is to coax it to life as fire.
You
need something pretty fine, pretty combustible. =20

Kindling is the next step.

John...

John T. Kramer, maker of:=A0

Kramer's Best Antique Improver
>>>It makes wood wonderful<<<
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 >>>As good as old!<<<

<http://www.kramerize.com/>

mail to: <[e-mail]>=20

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 10:19:03 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Michael Pierce)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Have we forgotten the mountain men?

get a roll of hemp macromay thread and shred it fine--place in the oven
at 350 deg and cook for about 20 min to expell all moisture out---make
your nest from this---it will ignite like a house of fire---can use ceder
inner bark for a nest also  it works great-- must be dry---if you cook it
in a oven or a tin bucket with a hole in it for a few min it will also
take the moisture out-- it will also ignite real well-- many other
natural materials work well but have found that the macromay thread which
is very similar to toe works the best --MAKE SURE IT'S DRY AND STORE IN A
SEALED TIN SO THAT IT DOESN'T DRAW MOISTURE---moisture will retard the
flame and you will see a big difference in it's ignition---there was a
paper that was posted to the list a while back on fire starting--very
good you need to look at it---ask dean to send you a copy---made a many a
10 second fire with the tow---good stuff--next is The inner cedar bark
must be dry---

ketch you later--YMHOSANT
        =+=
      "Hawk"
Michael Pierce
854 Glenfield Dr.
Palm Harbor, florida   34684
1-[phone]

On Sat, 27 Jun 1998 23:38:45 -0500 John Kramer <[e-mail]>
writes:
>At 01:27 AM 6/27/98 -0400, you wrote:
>>im having trouble getting my flint and fire started. list some times
>i can
>get
>>it and others i cant. my char cloth is one of the secrets !!!???? i
>can get
>>flint sparks . ican get char cloth to ignite but thats as far as it
>goes i
>>usualy give up and take my oxy on my torch and squirt a little of oxy
>on it
>>and away it goes . i do this on aregular basisis to start my forge
>and
>keep in
>>practice but im doing some thing or all things rong.=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0
>iron=
> tounge
>>=20
>
>What are you using for tinder?
>
>If you have spark in the char the next step is to coax it to life as
>fire.
>You
>need something pretty fine, pretty combustible. =20
>
>Kindling is the next step.
>
>John...
>
>John T. Kramer, maker of:=A0
>
>Kramer's Best Antique Improver
>>>>It makes wood wonderful<<<
>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 >>>As good as old!<<<
>
><http://www.kramerize.com/>
>
>mail to: <[e-mail]>=20
>
>
>

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 08:42:49 -0700
From: Roger Lahti <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Fire Starting

   Iron Tongue'

This is my two bits worth on fire starting. Not something I have done for
years but something I picked up on in the last three or four years.

I find that the rotten wood found inside a small birch log, ( it will fall
out if the log is shaken roughly) will char up into the finest char
obtainable.  I then use a 3" or 4" square piece of burlap bag ( gunny
sack/feed sack) that has seen better days as a nest in lieu of cedar bark or
cottonwood inner bark, to blow the heat from the glowing char into. I find
that if all ingredients are dry that this will bring fire very quickly and
the flame will be easily sustained in the burlap as in a match or torch and
will facilitate putting good flame to my tinder of small forest duff or
twigs. The thing here that I wish to stress is that the burlap bag material
is quit superior to most anything else available along the Columbia R. and
when supplies arrive wrapped in burlap, those individuals headed for the
interior will make whatever attempt is needed to aquire a modest supply of
the aforementioned burlap.



I perhaps misunderstood your original post on this but I thought you were
having trouble finding a functional tinder that didn't require the use of
extra oxygen to get it to flame?
You should not have this problem with the use of burlap bag material when
this material is available to you. Try it and see!

YMO&HS
Capt. Lahti

------------------------------

End of hist_text-digest V1 #94
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