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From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #79 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Thursday, June 4 1998 Volume 01 : Number 079 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 15:32:53 -0400 From: "Mill, Kirk" <millk@aydin.com> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Help! My kid wants to be a buckskinner! The Black Powder Guide by Maj. George Nonte, is an oldie but goody. Rick Hacker's Muzzleloading Hunter is good but he does seem to have a slant away from flinters. Of course you can't go wrong with a Dixie Gunworks Catalog (best 5.00 you'll ever spend). For crafts, David Montgomery's Mountainman Crafts and Skills has some good stuff. Probably the best thing that you could do for your son is to buy him an NMLRA membership. By the way, your kid has figured out in 12 years what took me 36 years to figure out, this modern life is for the birds. -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Kierst [SMTP:kierst@newmex.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 1998 11:58 AM To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Subject: MtMan-List: Help! My kid wants to be a buckskinner! Anybody, My almost 12-yr old has been bitten bad: reads nothing but fur trade books, built himself a MM rig, plans to move to canada in a few yrs and live the life. He's getting a .40 caliber muzzleloader for his birhtday, but neither of us know anything about shooting. I'm looking for books/videos that could help a couple of novices. Thanks. K.Kierst ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 15:15:44 -0500 From: "Wefarmasmidgen" <wefarm@pcii.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Alum sources Try a dying (as in dying of fibers/fabrics) site. I don't have the source I ordered it from (on the old computer and haven't had use for it to make a favorite on the new), but you can order it in larger amounts. You might try searcing for "natural dyes" on one of the search engines and following links from there. If that doesn't work, try "spinning" "dying" "fibers" or something of that sort. If you still have no luck, email me privately, and I will make a concerted effort to find the source. Sally Bridgham at Wefarmasmidgen in Beautiful Southwestern Wisconsin wefarm@pcii.net Farm Trails http://www.farmtrails.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 14:39:03 -0600 From: "Sickler, Louis L" <louis.l.sickler@lmco.com> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Help! My kid wants to be a buckskinner! Kevin, I would recommend the Book of Buckskinning series and Muzzleloader Magazine as excellent places to begin. Lots of ideas, how-to's, etc that are not too far off the mark you are aiming at. In my humble opinion, though, I would not buy a rifle of less than .50 caliber if he is at all thinking about hunting big game!! Most states do not allow less than .45 cal. for deer and .50 cal. for elk. I hunt elk with my .54 and wouldn't think of using anything smaller. This caliber rifle does not cost much or any more than a .40 caliber, & unless you are target practicing or hunting small critters only, I think it would save money in the long run. Just my opinion, I may be wrong Red Coyote > ---------- > From: Kevin Kierst > Reply To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Sent: Wednesday, June 3, 1998 09:58 > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: MtMan-List: Help! My kid wants to be a buckskinner! > > Anybody, > My almost 12-yr old has been bitten bad: reads nothing but fur trade > books, built himself a MM rig, plans to move to canada in a few yrs and > live the life. He's getting a .40 caliber muzzleloader for his > birhtday, but neither of us know anything about shooting. I'm looking > for books/videos that could help a couple of novices. Thanks. > K.Kierst > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 16:17:36 -0600 (CST) From: mxhbc@TTACS.TTU.EDU (Henry B. Crawford) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Help! My kid wants to be a buckskinner! >Anybody, >My almost 12-yr old has been bitten bad: reads nothing but fur trade >books, built himself a MM rig, plans to move to canada in a few yrs and >live the life. He's getting a .40 caliber muzzleloader for his >birhtday, but neither of us know anything about shooting. I'm looking >for books/videos that could help a couple of novices. Thanks. > K.Kierst K. Kierst, A few steps to take in getting into this hobby (read: obsession) 1. If you're investing in a rifle for him, you might want to go a bit further and spend about a hundred or so bucks and get the entire _Book of Buckskinning_ (BoBS) series, vols. 1-7, by Scurlock (formerly Rebel) Publishing (800/228-6389). They're as good as it gets for intro basic and advanced information. Of course, you can go one vol. at a time. Start with volume 1, which is introductory, then 2, and so on. The prices have gone up periodically, so grab them while you can. I haven't seen them in book stores, but our local Tandy leather store has them. You can order them directly from Rebel, too. I'd encourage him to continue the Fur Trade reading, and maybe a subscription to _Muzzleloader_ magazine, published by the same good people who do the BoBS series. 2. Make sure you read and understand all you can about use and care of muzzleloading firearms *first*; THEN take him to the range and learn to shoot it safely. It would be good for you to learn the firearm, too, so you can coach him and enjoy it together. 3. Find out about fur trade/buckskinner living history events in your area and attend a few. This is where the real fun of the hobby comes in. The networking and exchange of knowledge is priceless. 4. Enjoy yourself. Everything else just falls into place. Welcome to the world of living history!! Cheers, HBC ***************************************** Henry B. Crawford Curator of History mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Museum of Texas Tech University 806/742-2442 Box 43191 FAX 742-1136 Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum ****** Living History . . . Because it's there! ******* ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 19:28:01 -0400 From: "Donald A. Ricetti" <SEGUNDO@bigfoot.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tornados and other bad weather Scott: Thanks for your concern. Lots of folks are all pitching in to help in the clean up around the Pittsburgh area. The good news: The NMLRA Eastern Site wasn't touched. This was grave concern for the staff as we have thousands of man hours constructing the tavern and improving the grounds. Never even lost a tree! The Booshway, Segundo and Scribe also escaped any real damage. The Booshway witnessed a funnel cloud from afar and said that was as close as he would ever like to be again! Thanks again for the concern! Bear and Sleepy Bear - Segundo and Media Director '98 EPR respectively Scott Allen wrote: > Hello the list, > > Just putting out a note to make sure that everyone on the list from > western Maryland and northeast, West Virginia and Pennsylvania made > it thru the tornados and bad storms of the past couple of days. Speak > up so we know you are still out there. > > Your most humble servant, > Scott Allen > http://members.tripod.com/~SCOTT ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 05:33:11 -0700 From: "JON P TOWNS" <AMM944@prodigy.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: alum This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_01BD8EB1.191B0A40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well years ago I wrote a booklet on Time Tested Tanning Recipes I have 3 recipes on alum, salt and alum Tanning, Tanning with Alum Carbolic Acid, Tanning Furred Pelts with Alum Paste. It sells for $5 plus 2 32cent stamps, I also wrote a booklet on Wild Game recipes. Same price. Later Jon T - ---------- : From: TetonTod@aol.com : To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com : Subject: Re: MtMan-List: alum : Date: Wednesday, June 03, 1998 6:25 AM : : For anyone interested in Alum Tanning, I would suggest contacting Kent Klein : who wrote a booklet entitled "Tan Your Hide the Alum Way." I have seen many of : Kents hides and they are superb and almost indistigushable from brain tanned. : My friend purchsed a 50 lb bag of alum at a chemical supply store. : : Kent can be contacted at KleinKC@juno.com : : Todd Glover - ------=_NextPart_000_01BD8EB1.191B0A40 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">Well years ago I wrote a booklet on = Time Tested Tanning Recipes I have 3 recipes on alum, salt and = alum Tanning, Tanning with Alum Carbolic Acid, Tanning = Furred Pelts with Alum Paste. It sells for $5 plus 2 = 32cent stamps, I also wrote a booklet on Wild Game recipes. = Same price. Later Jon T ---------- : From: TetonTod@aol.com : = To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com : Subject: Re: MtMan-List: alum : Date: = Wednesday, June 03, 1998 6:25 AM : : For anyone interested in = Alum Tanning, I would suggest contacting Kent Klein : who wrote a = booklet entitled "Tan Your Hide the Alum Way." I have seen = many of : Kents hides and they are superb and almost indistigushable = from brain tanned. : My friend purchsed a 50 lb bag of alum at a = chemical supply store. : : Kent can be contacted at KleinKC@juno.com : = : Todd Glover </body></html> - ------=_NextPart_000_01BD8EB1.191B0A40-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 20:28:35 -0500 From: "Ken " <rebelfreehold@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: tobacco... Hang it like tobacco. I usually cut mine right after it blooms out on the stalk. Put about 12 leaves in a bundle and hang it up to dry. If you have an outdoor shed that has good ventilation, that would be the best place to hang it. Dry until the leaves are a soft tan color. YMOS, YellowFeather - ---------- > From: john c funk,jr <j2hearts@juno.com> > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Cc: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: MtMan-List: Re: tobacco... > Date: Wednesday, June 03, 1998 9:10 AM > > Ken, > > You mentioned in your "tobacco" note that "when dried > properly".......mullen smokes "smooth as silk". What constitutes "dried > properly"? I have tried dried mullen and found it quite harsh!!!!! > > John Funk > > _____________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 19:28:36 -0700 From: Gary Bell <micropt@gte.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: tobacco... Monte, Kinnikinnick is also called Bearberry here in the Pacific Northwest (upper left hand wet zone), or at the nursery you get it by it's scientific name: Arctostaphylos uva-ursi, in a half dozen varieties. The Arctostaphylos are the Manzanitas, and Kinnikinnicks are the low growing forms, native from about San Mateo CA through Alaska, and my garden books indicate that it is winter hardy throughout the country wherever the average minimum temperatures are above -40 or -50 F! Mine is about six inches tall, and will slowly spread to ten or fifteen feet across. It has lovely tiny shiny dark green leaves that turn reddish in the fall, tiny white bell like flowers and it sets red holly like berries in mid summer that stay on until the birds finish them off in the fall. Nurseries and garden books will help. For the suburban forager, once you can properly identify the stuff you may well start finding it all over the urban and suburban scene, it is a VERY common hardy ground cover. There may even be opportunities for a little "pruning"..... Before you try any of this learn the difference between Kinnikinnick and "Bearberry cotoneaster", a very similar looking ground cover, but a different genus: Cotoneaster dammeri and around here it looks darker green, has flowers that are not bell shaped, and has some branches that arc up into the air in a characteristic way. This is another hardy common ground cover, and I have no idea how safely it would smoke. Ya might try looking over both at a nursery to sort out the differences. Crazy Crow sells Kinnikinnick smoking mixtures. Watch yer topknot, Night Heron Monte Holder wrote: > Is there another name for kinnickinnick that I missed somewhere along the way? > And what is its growing range? I would assume if there are berries, there would > be seeds. Wonder if a guy could grow some here in Missouri? > Monte Holder > Saline CO MO > > BTW, I grow some tobacco here in central Missouri from time to time and smoke it > occasionally in a pipe, but it really works great for keeping hornworms off my > tomatos and they are easier to see on those great big leaves. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 19:31:56 -0700 From: Roger Lahti <lahtirog@gte.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Help! My kid wants to be a buckskinner! Kevin; I'm gona weigh in on this too because getting started right in this game is just about the most important thing you can do. Every one has a right to their opinion and I do not mean to offend but we used to refer to Dixie Gun works as 'Dixie Junk Works' and I believe for good reason. I recently sent for one of their catalogs and it was full of just as much junk as it's always had. If you are looking for parts to a wide variety of guns, good and bad, then it is a good catalogue to have. If you want to be sure that what is being presented to you as quality and authentically styled merchandise then 'Track of The Wolf' is a better catalogue to choose from. It isn't the only one but is a good one. I will vote to recommend that you get your son a membership in NRA not NMLRA and that you look to the 'Book of Buck skinning" series vol.'s #1 through #7 as the best source for information on how to do it right. At any rate go slow and look everything over with a critical eye. My vote goes to the larger caliber guns too and for the same reasons. In my state of WA. and in most states, 50 cal. is considered minimum for lager game like elk and even though I've taken deer with a 50 cal. flinter, I long ago converted to 54 cal. and wouldn't go back. I would go so far as to recommend that you consider starting him out with a 20 gauge smooth bore flint musket in NW trade gun length or longer. This gun shoots light (light recoil) with a sane load of 60 to 70 grains and will take bird shot as well as a round ball. Since it is a smooth bore, the purity of the lead you use for your round balls is not critical and thus opens up a large area of possible supply. I and friends hunt all game with this type of gun and cal. from quail to elk and bear with full confidence in the weapons ability to make clean kills. If you aren't thinking of hunting but more towards target shooting, the trade gun is still a good choice. I have seen trade guns out shoot rifles many times in the hands of a shooter who will learn his weapon and how to get the most from it. My recommendations for resource material leans towards the more recent authors for much of the information put out 20 or 30 years ago has proven in my opinion to be more guess than fact. The knowledge of the sport has increased many times since I got started and I have had to re-evaluate my beliefs many times. Good luck to you both and I hope we have all been helpful and not muddied the water too much. YMOS Capt. Lahti Kevin Kierst wrote: > Anybody, > My almost 12-yr old has been bitten bad: reads nothing but fur trade > books, built himself a MM rig, plans to move to canada in a few yrs and > live the life. He's getting a .40 caliber muzzleloader for his > birhtday, but neither of us know anything about shooting. I'm looking > for books/videos that could help a couple of novices. Thanks. > K.Kierst ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 19:49:55 -0700 From: Gary Bell <micropt@gte.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Help! My kid wants to be a buckskinner! Hmmmmmm, Kevin, if you were looking for somebody to talk you and / or your son out of buckskinning, you are talking to the wrong folks here. We are all learning as we go but all have to some extent at least the desire your son demonstrates. One of the best ways for me to learn these ways and crafts, after the book and internet reading is talking with new found friends at rendezvous and gun clubs that specialize in blackpowder shooting. I would certainly suggest that you NOT try to learn shooting based only on video and book learnin'! I am very fortunate to have a specialized blackpowder gun shop fifteen minutes drive from me, and the folks there will give you great advice. The advice is not always perfectly consistent, but that only helps you learn what is most important (the stuff they all agree on) and what you will need to work your own way into. I wonder how many on the list started at such a tender age? I have helped eleven year old Scouts shoot BP (blackpowder, not Baden Powell!) and in other settings children much younger than that have enjoyed carefully supervised shooting. Several of the boys in my troop are bitten, and our area has a MM specialized Explorer post. Kevin, why don't you let us know where you are, and very likely some experienced list members will be nearby and can help. Night Heron Kevin Kierst wrote: > Anybody, > My almost 12-yr old has been bitten bad: reads nothing but fur trade > books, built himself a MM rig, plans to move to canada in a few yrs and > live the life. He's getting a .40 caliber muzzleloader for his > birhtday, but neither of us know anything about shooting. I'm looking > for books/videos that could help a couple of novices. Thanks. > K.Kierst ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 20:33:49 -0700 From: Chris Sega <chrissega1@powernet.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Tobacco - --------------3D6799DBA87D567817E3A361 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ken said Mullen leaves are fantastic! Not only do they make great toilet paper substitute but when properly dried they.... Ken, you must be mistaking Mullein with something else like balsamroot, or your butt is made of cast iron. Common Mullein is covered with fine prickly hairs all over, The leaves of the first year rosette do resemble Mule ears or balsamroot. I have had to do weed control projects where I removed an acre of Mullein, and afterwards I had to strip to my underwear to drive home without going mad from the itching. Mullein is a biennial and in the first year resembles Balsamroot, but in the second year produces a stalk 2 to 6 feet tall with a dense spike like flower head on top. Mullein stalks are good for fire drills and the leaves when pulverized can be used to stun fish. If you are not using Balsamroot and do smoke and use Mullein as toilet paper I am sorry for suggesting otherwise. A good book for reference on plants in the arid and alpine West is "Sagebrush Country: A Wildflower Sanctuary" by Ronald J. Taylor. If you can post again to clarify exactly which plant you are talking about. Chris Sega - --------------3D6799DBA87D567817E3A361 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML> Ken said Mullen leaves are fantastic! Not only do they make great toilet paper substitute but when properly dried they.... Ken, you must be mistaking Mullein with something else like balsamroot, or your butt is made of cast iron. Common Mullein is covered with fine prickly hairs all over, The leaves of the first year rosette do resemble Mule ears or balsamroot. I have had to do weed control projects where I removed an acre of Mullein, and afterwards I had to strip to my underwear to drive home without going mad from the itching. Mullein is a biennial and in the first year resembles Balsamroot, but in the second year produces a stalk 2 to 6 feet tall with a dense spike like flower head on top. Mullein stalks are good for fire drills and the leaves when pulverized can be used to stun fish. If you are not using Balsamroot and do smoke and use Mullein as toilet paper I am sorry for suggesting otherwise. A good book for reference on plants in the arid and alpine West is "Sagebrush Country: A Wildflower Sanctuary" by Ronald J. Taylor. If you can post again to clarify exactly which plant you are talking about. Chris Sega</HTML> - --------------3D6799DBA87D567817E3A361-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 21:30:11 -0600 From: Dean Rudy <drudy@xmission.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Help! My kid wants to be a buckskinner! At 08:58 AM 6/3/98 -0700, you wrote: >Anybody, >My almost 12-yr old has been bitten bad: reads nothing but fur trade >books, built himself a MM rig, plans to move to canada in a few yrs and >live the life. He's getting a .40 caliber muzzleloader for his >birhtday, but neither of us know anything about shooting. I'm looking >for books/videos that could help a couple of novices. Thanks. > K.Kierst > Howdy, There's a relatively new book & video combo out lately that's about the best I've seen for somebody just startin. It's "Dress and Equipage of the Mountain Man 1820-1840", from Rocky Mt. College Productions, 505/687-3267. Get the book and video together for about $37 bucks. They've got pretty good historical references, and are focused on the Mountain Men during the rendezvous period.. - --------------------------------------------------------------------- Dean Rudy AMM#1530 Email: drudy@xmission.com Park City, Utah WWW: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/amm.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 23:05:57 -0600 (MDT) From: earlalan@srv.net (Allen Hall) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tanning Ron, >Does the finished hide resemble brain tanned hides? >While I know it wouldn't be authentic, I was wondering if it was a good >enough substitute, without the mess. > >Thanks in advance! >Ron Actually, brains aren't that much of a mess, and I bet they are much less messy than lard and flour! Allen Hall ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 03:37:42 EDT From: <NaugaMok@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Help! My kid wants to be a buckskinner! In a message dated 98-06-03 19:03:46 EDT, you write: << n my humble opinion, though, I would not buy a rifle of less than .50 caliber if he is at all thinking about hunting big game! >> Hey! Wait a minute! We're talking about a 12 yr old's learnin' gun! .40 is a great plenty! We don't want him kicked so hard he quits after the first shot. Start him slow -- first on the range with light loads until he gets his loading proficiency & marksmanship down, then go after a few bunnies & squirrels. When he turns 16 or so, then get the larger bore -- preferably in a flint lock -- & go fo bigger game. Don't let him get discouraged right at first if his rifle doesn't drive tacks. A lot of muzzleloaders need a "break in period" which can take as many as 250 - 500 shots, but most will settle down around 100 shots or so. Take time to try different loaadings, by which I mean different powder charger, ball sizes, patch thicknesses & even different brands of powder. The normal ball sizes for a .40 will be either .390 or .395 - -- both sizes will shoot a bit differently, & the rifle will tell you which to use. 'cuz it'll shoot that size best. Try different patch thicknesses -- .010, .015, & .018 in. thick. Again the rifle will tell you which it likes. Start the powder charge about 30 gr of FFFg & bump it up 5 gr for every 5 shots when trying the different ball sizes & patch thicknesses. I'd put a 50 gr limit on it for him. As for powder, use a good black powder like Goex or Elephant. My personal preference is Goex, but some people like the Elephant - -- try 'em both & see which you like. Be advised that Elephant doesn't quite have the energy Goex does, so you need to load it a smidge heavier -- 3 - 5 gr extra over the Goex charge in a .40 should even the velocities out. Stay away from the substitutes like Pyrodex & Black Canyon -- especialy at first. The substitutes are a bit finikey & sometimes don't do what's expected. Have him attend the Safe Hunter program -- they have a excelent section on B/P shooting & he'll learn proper gun handling, & meet his requirement for a hunting licnese as well. Attent the class with him. I used to be a NRA Safe Hunter instructor, but when my son went through the class, I went too ----- & learned a few things myself! When I taught the course back in the mis '60's archery & B/P wasn't part of the course -- I'm glad to see that's been incorperated. Most new rifles/guns come with a pretty good instruction book. Have him read it -- & read it yourself. BE SURE TO USE A POWDER MEASURE!!! Use a good patch lube or you can start him out with the prelubed patches. Everybody has their own pet mix for patch lube which can be anything from spit to Wonderlube - -- both work, but my favorite is Mac's 13 -- sold at NAPA auto parts stores as NAPA 13 -- also works as a cleaner & it's cheap! Cleaners -- again, everybody has their own prefered cleaner, but hot soap & water is hard to beat. After a thurough cleaning be sure the bore is dry & lightly oil -- here I prefer Break Free, but there are a lot of other good products out there that work well too - -- like Hopies gun oil & even WD-40. Remember, Hopies #9 is formulated for modern powders & won't work that well on a B/P gun -- Hopies DOES make a B/P cleaner that works pretty good. Hope this helps a bit. The books & magazines that have been mentioned are all good, but Track of the Wolf is geared more toward the gun builder. Excelent catalog, but maybe a bit advanced at this stage. A lot of times we forget what it was like when we first started & think more in the terms of where we're at now, so sometimes we advise someone just starting like they're a 30 yr vet with a smoke pole. Other good sources are Jas. Townsed & Son, Log Cabin, North West Traders, & a host of others. Someone advised getting a subscription to Muzzleloader magazine & a membership in NMLRA which includes a subscription to Muzzle Blast magazine. Thumb through these magazines & you'll see all kinds of adds for catalogs as well as the ones I & others have mentioned -- get the ones we've talked about first. NM ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 06:33:46 EDT From: <MIA3WOLVES@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: tobacco... In reference to red willow smell, I definitely know what you mean. My son smokes natural herbs of the legal kind. We were out having pizza and he lit up one of his cigarrettes after dinner. The police arrived soon after. Fortunately, he had the package the "Bidis" came in and the problem was resolved. But for you buckskinners out there smoking this stuff at camp or otherwise, be forewarned and prepared to prove your source. Red Hawk. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 06:39:17 EDT From: <MIA3WOLVES@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Help! My kid wants to be a buckskinner! I had to respond to this one. As a member in goodstanding of the NMLRA and a female to boot, I would disagree that the NRA is a better organization for a CHILD who is interested in being a buckskinner. Those of us who seek out the "older values" and ways of the past definintely do not fit into the NRA mentality except for maybe agreeing of the right to bear arms. Red Hawk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 08:53:11 -0400 From: "Craig Davis" <cdavis@magicnet.net> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Help! My kid wants to be a buckskinner! Kevin, I started in Buckskinning only a few years ago and I had noone I knew locally to teach me black-powder. I went to my local black-powder specialty store and explained my plight. The owner of the store offered to meet me at the range the following weekend to help! Before I made it out of the store, I had more offers of help than I could deal with. The owner told me where the local front-stuffers shot together and when. I would say that if you can find a shop, you can find the help you need. It's in a BP shop owner's best interest to make sure you get started correctly. Besides, I haven't met too many unfriendly BP shooters or 'skinners in my short experience and most want to help. Just remember that some people are knowledgeable and a lot more think they are, so use common sense. - -Craig ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 08:52:46 EDT From: <CTOAKES@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Help! My kid wants to be a buckskinner! In a message dated 98-06-03 15:18:25 EDT, you write: << My almost 12-yr old has been bitten bad: reads nothing but fur trade books, built himself a MM rig, plans to move to canada in a few yrs and live the life. He's getting a .40 caliber muzzleloader for his birhtday, but neither of us know anything about shooting. I'm looking for books/videos that could help a couple of novices. Thanks. K.Kierst >> Tell the list where you live and how far you will drive to get to an event. Then when we reply with dates and times of any shoot/camp, take your son and go. At the event ask for the range officer or booshway and tell them you would like some help in learning to shoot your new .40. I have never been to a camp that would not get you 5 to 10 people willing to take you by the hand and lead you thru all you need to know for safe fun shooting and some can even make cleaning your smokepole fun as well. And well you are cleaning up, saay a little prayer of thanks to the grand fathers and spirts for the joy of having a son that wants to do something with you. Re-inacting, rendezvous and muzzleloading is a great family experiance. If you get the latest issue of Smoke & Fire my daughter and I are shown shooting on page 23. Welcome to the wonderful world of living history, and welcome to your son. This life style/hobby will die without the interest and participation of new generations. Your Humble Servant C.T. Oakes ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 07:27:27 +0000 From: "Mike Katona" <mkatona@pdx.oneworld.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tanning D Ron, >Does the finished hide resemble brain tanned hides? >While I know it wouldn't be authentic, I was wondering if it was a good >enough substitute, without the mess. > >Thanks in advance! >Ron Actually, brains aren't that much of a mess, and I bet they are much less messy than lard and flour! Allen Hall Isn't it amazing how much effort goes into trying to avoid doing things correctly? Kind of like powdered eggs. Next we will be jerking hotdogs and reconstituting them for a weenie roast at voo. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 07:45:39 -0700 From: Vic Barkin <Victor.Barkin@NAU.EDU> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Help! My kid wants to be a buckskinner! some comments from the dad of a 13 yr old.... My son started shooting frontstuffers at the age of eight. he started out with a 32 cal percussion squirrel rifle. he became rather bored with the pop-crack of that gun . Now he is shooting my 58 cal flint Barnett trade gun, no loads over 50 grains at this point, with great excitement! Its all a progression. Start out where you feel the most comfortable. If he's shooting targets, 40 cal is fine. If hunting, Deer can be taken quite effectively with a 40. Wouldn't try it fer griz r buff tho... Vic Vic Nathan Barkin Printing and Reproduction Services Manager NAU Publication Services Box 4101, Flagstaff, AZ 86011 520-523-6160 Victor.Barkin@nau.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 07:51:13 -0700 From: Vic Barkin <Victor.Barkin@NAU.EDU> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Help! My kid wants to be a buckskinner! OOOPs, wrong John Hancock! >some comments from the dad of a 13 yr old.... > >My son started shooting frontstuffers at the age of eight. he started out >with a 32 cal percussion squirrel rifle. he became rather bored with the >pop-crack of that gun . Now he is shooting my 58 cal flint Barnett trade >gun, no loads over 50 grains at this point, with great excitement! Its all >a progression. Start out where you feel the most comfortable. If he's >shooting targets, 40 cal is fine. If hunting, Deer can be taken quite >effectively with a 40. Wouldn't try it fer griz r buff tho... > >Vic Vic "Barkin Dawg" Barkin AMM #1534 Three Rivers Party "Aux aliments du pays!" Booshway of the Powderhorn Clan of Arizona Celebrating our 50th anniversary 1948-1998 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 08:21:29 -0500 From: WIDD-Tim Austin (WIDD-Tim Austin) <AustinT@silltcmd-smtp.army.mil> Subject: MtMan-List: Help! My kid wants to be a buckskinner! Kevin, I have to agree with what Roger Lahti said. My boys both got hooked on buckskinning years ago, and I had the same process to go through that you are having now. After being a member of the MNLRA for 10 years, and the last was a 5 year membership, I left them. They are not really interested in anything outside of Friendship and rarely offered anything remotely connected with someone interested in furtrade or mountain man stuff and because they try to offer "all" of black powder they include all the modern black powder guns. I got them life memberships in the NRA, and do not regret it at all. I also got them a small gun, .36, that I was able to make for almost nothing, less than a $100, and when they became 15 bought them a .54. That seems to be the better of all occasions. Some states have a minimum requirement and the largest minimum is .54, so I went with that. Good luck and just remember, keep it simple. Tim Austin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 11:05:10 -0600 (CST) From: mxhbc@TTACS.TTU.EDU (Henry B. Crawford) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Help! My kid wants to be a buckskinner! .45, or .50, makes little difference to adults, but for a 12 year old kid, .40 is a good caliber to start with, especially since he is just beginning. .40 cal is also historically accurate for a period when standard calibers were not the rule. There were plenty .40s out there "back then." I say let the kid learn with a .40, then graduate to something else. If I read his question correctly, we're not talking about going out and hunting befiore the basics are learned. We're talking about learning the basics of shooting and firearm safety. For that a .40 is adequate. When the hunting phase begins, after he becomes proficient, then maybe an upgrade is in order. I think a .40 for a 12 year old beginner is clearly a judicious choice made by a thoughtful parent. IMHO HBC ***************************************** Henry B. Crawford Curator of History mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Museum of Texas Tech University 806/742-2442 Box 43191 FAX 742-1136 Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum ****** Living History . . . Because it's there! ******* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 14:15:10 EDT From: <RR1LA@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Help! My kid wants to be a buckskinner! As for picking a gun, a local B/P club would be a good place to start. Most of us guys are more than willing to talk (sometimes endlessly) and you'll get plenty of help. Its also likely you'll get the chance to shoot a number of different calibers. And as NaugaMok said, matching your load to the gun breaking in a barrel are critical. Get it right and you WILL BE nailing tacks. About joining a national organization? Well, its certainly your choice, BUT, the NRA for a buckskinner? hmmmm. In my humble opinion, it's questionable whether they have the mind-set and/or interests of us buckskinner/traditionalist types at heart. The NMLRA seems to be quite a bit more in tune, AND puts on some darned good rendezvous'. Hope to meet you at one of 'em soon. PJ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 12:51:01 -0700 From: Roger Lahti <lahtirog@gte.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Help! My kid wants to be a buckskinner! - --------------275368AD00D5822CA661E927 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Buried in all that has come over the list on this subject is some good advice. Get with some buck skinners/traditionalists and let them help. Do some research and spend your time and money wisely. On the subject of Nat. Organizations: I understand that your son is hooked on being a MM/buck skinner. That sounds like traditionalist to me and NMLRA plays to too many different aspects of the sport to be good at serving the needs of the budding traditionalist. I used to belong to NMLRA until I learned about 'The Buckskin Report' and in it's turn 'Muzzleloader Mag.'. Those two publications spoke to the traditionalist in me unlike NMLRA's Muzzle Blasts, which was mostly full of news of the 'Shoot' results at 'Friendship' and the latest in muzzle loading gear for the shooter who didn't want to do it the old way but wanted his muzzle loading to be as close to shooting modern cartridge firearms as modern technology will allow. I still joined the NMLRA each year though, because it was a requirement for entry into the National Rendezvous' that were held out West. I did until NMLRA sued me and others and took all the money that I and others had invested in the western rendezvous. I don't support the NMLRA any more. I spend my money on the NRA, an organization that at least is dedicated to fighting on a national level to protect my right to 'Keep and Bear Arms' from my 18th century musket to my 20th century semi auto. I can go to 'Muzzle Loader' and other such mag.s for reading material that is truly aimed at the traditionalist/buckskinner/longhunter etc. NMLRA puts on some darn fine rendezvous: Well it always seemed to me that it was the folks in the field that put on those darn fine rendezvous, not the hierarchy back in Friendship, Indiana. I'm sure the folks that still do put on NMLRA sanctioned rendezvous put on darn fine do'ins but my time is limited and I choose to attend non NMLRA events. Non NMLRA events are some darn fine do'ins too and it don't cost me another $30 for a membership in a club back east. Bottom line is this is my humble opinion and it may not fit anyone else. You asked and you got! And I should shut up and mind my own business. Not likely! Your most humble and obedient servant Capt. Lahti RR1LA@aol.com wrote: > As for picking a gun, a local B/P club would be a good place to start. Most of > us guys are more than willing to talk (sometimes endlessly) and you'll get > plenty of help. Its also likely you'll get the chance to shoot a number of > different calibers. And as NaugaMok said, matching your load to the gun > breaking in a barrel are critical. Get it right and you WILL BE nailing > tacks. > > About joining a national organization? Well, its certainly your choice, BUT, > the NRA for a buckskinner? hmmmm. In my humble opinion, it's questionable > whether they have the mind-set and/or interests of us > buckskinner/traditionalist types at heart. The NMLRA seems to be quite a bit > more in tune, AND puts on some darned good rendezvous'. Hope to meet you at > one of 'em soon. PJ - --------------275368AD00D5822CA661E927 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML> Buried in all that has come over the list on this subject is some good advice. Get with some buck skinners/traditionalists and let them help. Do some research and spend your time and money wisely. On the subject of Nat. Organizations: I understand that your son is hooked on being a MM/buck skinner. That sounds like traditionalist to me and NMLRA plays to too many different aspects of the sport to be good at serving the needs of the budding traditionalist. I used to belong to NMLRA until I learned about 'The Buckskin Report' and in it's turn 'Muzzleloader Mag.'. Those two publications spoke to the traditionalist in me unlike NMLRA's Muzzle Blasts, which was mostly full of news of the 'Shoot' results at 'Friendship' and the latest in muzzle loading gear for the shooter who didn't want to do it the old way but wanted his muzzle loading to be as close to shooting modern cartridge firearms as modern technology will allow. I still joined the NMLRA each year though, because it was a requirement for entry into the National Rendezvous' that were held out West. I did until NMLRA sued me and others and took all the money that I and others had invested in the western rendezvous. I don't support the NMLRA any more. I spend my money on the NRA, an organization that at least is dedicated to fighting on a national level to protect my right to 'Keep and Bear Arms' from my 18th century musket to my 20th century semi auto. I can go to 'Muzzle Loader' and other such mag.s for reading material that is truly aimed at the traditionalist/buckskinner/longhunter etc. NMLRA puts on some darn fine rendezvous: Well it always seemed to me that it was the folks in the field that put on those darn fine rendezvous, not the hierarchy back in Friendship, Indiana. I'm sure the folks that still do put on NMLRA sanctioned rendezvous put on darn fine do'ins but my time is limited and I choose to attend non NMLRA events. Non NMLRA events are some darn fine do'ins too and it don't cost me another $30 for a membership in a club back east. Bottom line is this is my humble opinion and it may not fit anyone else. You asked and you got! And I should shut up and mind my own business. Not likely! Your most humble and obedient servant Capt. Lahti RR1LA@aol.com wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>As for picking a gun, a local B/P club would be a good place to start. Most of us guys are more than willing to talk (sometimes endlessly) and you'll get plenty of help. Its also likely you'll get the chance to shoot a number of different calibers. And as NaugaMok said, matching your load to the gun breaking in a barrel are critical. Get it right and you WILL BE nailing tacks. About joining a national organization? Well, its certainly your choice, BUT, the NRA for a buckskinner? hmmmm. In my humble opinion, it's questionable whether they have the mind-set and/or interests of us buckskinner/traditionalist types at heart. The NMLRA seems to be quite a bit more in tune, AND puts on some darned good rendezvous'. Hope to meet you at one of 'em soon. PJ</BLOCKQUOTE> </HTML> - --------------275368AD00D5822CA661E927-- ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #79 ****************************** - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message. 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