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hist_text-digest        Wednesday, May 27 1998        Volume 01 : Number 073




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 13:46:55 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Ted A Hart)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: war paint

True but I was raised not to ask questions unless necessary.  If info is
given to me I gratefully accept it but to ask is to be impolite....I grew
up real Southern kind of way still am that way alot of times :)  But am
the least racist person you'll ever meet probably because deafness (I use
American Sign Language) runs all racial barriers.

One last question I have to ask before I sign off.  Does anyone actually
still use American Indian Sign Language nowdays?

Ted

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 15:13:52 EDT
From: EmmaPeel2 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: smoke (serious question)

In a message dated 98-05-19 15:57:10 EDT, you write:

<<
 Hello the list,
 I asked a question and I suppose I should have worded it differently since
 I have gotten off line remarks that are not relevant to the question.
 Question was "wonder how they coped with things like this in the 1800's ."
 I had hoped for serious answers in the same vein as the one's on dropsy or
 on medicine in the same time period. I am doing fine in my
 un-airconditioned vehicle and work place, thank you.
 YMOS
 Ken YellowFeather
  >>
The best way to understand how a group "coped" and adapted to environmental --
or any other trauma (medical, psychological) required an understanding of
their beliefs in context.  We all know people who have endured great adversity
and never cracked, while others shattered at the simplest  of annoyances. As a
medical anthropologist who studies the impact of stressors on the body, I
would say that this group was particularly independent and RESOURCEFUL, which
are key components in being able to adapt.  Odds are also good, that they were
also somewhat fit and strong (though I can only conject upon things like
intestinal parasites, which would severely weaken a person) Although I have
not had the opportunity to examine MM remains, I am quite certain they would
have accepted and adapted to environmental emergencies quite readily.  They
would just do what they had to do -- perhaps a wet rag around the nostrils and
mouth.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 16:14:28 EDT
From: MIA3WOLVES <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: war paint

Yes!  It is still taught to many deaf children as their primary means of
communication.  It is, also, used with non verbal autistic children to some
extent.

Red Hawk

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 17:50:07 -0400
From: "kd4rfa" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Primitive archery

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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I can recommend the following:

http://www.pioneerpc.com/primitivearcher

Your humble servant
"Empty-Poke"

- -----Original Message-----
From: JarhedMatt <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>; [e-mail]
<[e-mail]>
Date: Monday, May 25, 1998 1:36 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: Primitive archery


>  Hi, List.
>
>  I know that this is way "off list", so I'll only ask once.  Can anyone
>recommend a decent primitive archery mailing list/www site?
>
>  Thanks,
>
>  Matt W
>

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 15:53:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: zaslow <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Information Requested on Davenport Rifle

I realize this is not our time period (so let me appologize if it is
offensive to anyone) but my sister in Florida asked me this question the
other day and it is the fastest and easiest way I could think of to get the
information.

She has a friend who wants to buy a Davenport Rifle and get as much
information on the manufacturer as he can.  It was manufactured during the
Civil War and I would imagine it was for the North, since it was made in
either Rhode Island or Connecticut.  Apparently, the person who wants this
information is related to the original owner of the Davenport Arms Company.
Since my interest is in the American Fur Trade, I have never heard of this
manufacturer and was wondering if anyone had ever heard of it and could
provide some information or knew of one for sale.

If you want to respond off line, my E-Mail address is: [e-mail]

I would appreciate any help.

Thanks again,

Jerry (Meriwether) Zaslow #1488

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 22:24:39 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Ted A Hart)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: war paint

Really?  Please correspond with me privately via e-mail as some of my
discussion points don't pertain to this board.

Ted

_____________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 22:24:39 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Ted A Hart)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: war paint

Forgot to add that my e-mail address is [e-mail]

Ted

On Mon, 25 May 1998 16:14:28 EDT MIA3WOLVES <[e-mail]> writes:
>Yes!  It is still taught to many deaf children as their primary means
>of
>communication.  It is, also, used with non verbal autistic children to
>some
>extent.
>
>Red Hawk

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 21:33:26 -0500
From: "Michael Branson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: war paint

I would answer yes, to that question. I never used it at any buckskinners
Rendezvous when I used to attend them. But I still use it at places such as
Bent's Old Fort and Ft. Laramie. I can't say I'm as good as I would like to
be but it is hard to learn it when you don't have a daily need for it. M.
Branson
- -----Original Message-----
From: Ted A Hart <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Monday, May 25, 1998 12:48 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: war paint


>True but I was raised not to ask questions unless necessary.  If info is
>given to me I gratefully accept it but to ask is to be impolite....I grew
>up real Southern kind of way still am that way alot of times :)  But am
>the least racist person you'll ever meet probably because deafness (I use
>American Sign Language) runs all racial barriers.
>
>One last question I have to ask before I sign off.  Does anyone actually
>still use American Indian Sign Language nowdays?
>
>Ted
>
>_____________________________________________________________________
>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
>Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 01:30:25 EDT
From: EmmaPeel2 <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Just tossing out an idea, would like some feedback

Have spent the past 11 months researching the St. Vrain family, and ran into a
few Bent, Dubreil, and Derbigny descendants along the way.  The idea was
casually dropped about having a reuinion for the descendants of those who
worked at and trapped for Bents FOrt.  Many still live in the area.  Just out
of curiosity - I wonder how this could be done, and if anyone would seriously
be interested.  Since the MM are what MADE Bents Fort, it would be unthinkable
not to have a rendezvous of sorts.  Any suggestions? Or is this a ridiculous
idea? Thoughts welcome.  I know the St. Vrain descendants would be
enthusiastic, the trick is, how to convince the NPS? Thanks for any advice or
comment - Emma

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 00:21:57 -0500
From: Jim Colburn <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: war paint

Washtahay-
At 04:14 PM 5/25/98 EDT, you wrote:
>Yes!  It is still taught to many deaf children as their primary means of
>communication.  It is, also, used with non verbal autistic children to some
>extent.
    Um, I hink you mean American Sign Language is taught to deaf children as
thier primary means of communication.  Based on my experience with
non-verbal autistic children, again it is either ASL, or SEE, or a
localized or individual specific signing system, usually supplemented ASAP
by picture cards (at least if I have any input into writing the programs!)
    Sorry for the off topic post.
LongWalker c. du B.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 01:28:23 -0500
From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: On and off topic

Censorship is an ugly disease of the mind.

In my most recent mail download two questions were raised and the authors
pleaded forgiveness for going off topic.  Why are they so gun shy?

Both questions were completely ON TOPIC and entirely appropriate to the list
discussion.  I also find no problem with seeking the broad expertise on this
list to answer occasional questions clearly outside our period of interest;
like one concerning a Civil War period gun.  These things should not require
apology.

Primitive Archery is a valid topic for discussion.  More valid than
anti-perspirant used as anti-poison ivy.  As valid as any discussion of
clothing, knives and guns.

The original mountain men learned from the native inhabitants the ways of the
mountains and plains, some intermarried and lived with various tribes.  A bow
may not shoot as far, but, it can shoot a lot faster than a flintlock.  To
think it doesn't belong here is just plain wrong.  I can believe at least a
few
of the mountain men carried a bow and arrows around with them long before I
can
believe they hauled a teepee, unless they also packed a squaw.

Indian Sign Language, American Sign Language, Any Sign Language.  I have been
corrected before on this but, I still maintain there are many similarities in
the various versions of "sign".  What I have come to believe is once you learn
any one form, it becomes possible to work out communication with any other
form; at least easier than between different spoken languages.

One of the requirements to advance to the Hiveranno degree in AMM is to learn
Indian Sign Language.  The topic is appropriate.

What we need to pay closer attention to is our subject headings.  If we change
the topic we should change the subject heading; i.e., neither of the above
have
anything to do with war paint.

My rant:
This forum should not be used as a medium for personal business
advertising.  I
try to remember to change my "standard" sig file to the one I use for the
list,
before I hit the send button.  Sometimes I forget so occasionally my "ad" is
tagged onto the bottom of my messages.  Some seem to think their business is
more important than mine or any other and never fail to advertise with every
message.  I find this offensive.  My business is at least as correct to the
period as any other and I would appreciate a little effort to make this
list as
non-commercial as possible.

The opinions expressed above are entirely my own.

John...

Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
john <[e-mail]>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 06:41:32 EDT
From: MIA3WOLVES <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: war paint

You are correct.  I misread the original post as ASL.

Red Hawk

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 05:47:57 -0500
From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: On and off topic

Yeah---what you said!!
Lanney Ratcliff
- -----Original Message-----
From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Tuesday, May 26, 1998 1:29 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: On and off topic


>Censorship is an ugly disease of the mind.
>
>In my most recent mail download two questions were raised and the authors
>pleaded forgiveness for going off topic.  Why are they so gun shy?
>
>Both questions were completely ON TOPIC and entirely appropriate to the
list
>discussion.  I also find no problem with seeking the broad expertise on
this
>list to answer occasional questions clearly outside our period of interest;
>like one concerning a Civil War period gun.  These things should not
require
>apology.
>
>Primitive Archery is a valid topic for discussion.  More valid than
>anti-perspirant used as anti-poison ivy.  As valid as any discussion of
>clothing, knives and guns.
>
>The original mountain men learned from the native inhabitants the ways of
the
>mountains and plains, some intermarried and lived with various tribes.  A
bow
>may not shoot as far, but, it can shoot a lot faster than a flintlock.  To
>think it doesn't belong here is just plain wrong.  I can believe at least a
>few
>of the mountain men carried a bow and arrows around with them long before I
>can
>believe they hauled a teepee, unless they also packed a squaw.
>
>Indian Sign Language, American Sign Language, Any Sign Language.  I have
been
>corrected before on this but, I still maintain there are many similarities
in
>the various versions of "sign".  What I have come to believe is once you
learn
>any one form, it becomes possible to work out communication with any other
>form; at least easier than between different spoken languages.
>
>One of the requirements to advance to the Hiveranno degree in AMM is to
learn
>Indian Sign Language.  The topic is appropriate.
>
>What we need to pay closer attention to is our subject headings.  If we
change
>the topic we should change the subject heading; i.e., neither of the above
>have
>anything to do with war paint.
>
>My rant:
>This forum should not be used as a medium for personal business
>advertising.  I
>try to remember to change my "standard" sig file to the one I use for the
>list,
>before I hit the send button.  Sometimes I forget so occasionally my "ad"
is
>tagged onto the bottom of my messages.  Some seem to think their business
is
>more important than mine or any other and never fail to advertise with
every
>message.  I find this offensive.  My business is at least as correct to the
>period as any other and I would appreciate a little effort to make this
>list as
>non-commercial as possible.
>
>The opinions expressed above are entirely my own.
>
>John...
>
>Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
>john <[e-mail]>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 13:02:27 EDT
From: LODGEPOLE <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Just tossing out an idea, would like some feedback

In a message dated 98-05-26 01:32:55 EDT, you write:

<<  I know the St. Vrain descendants would be
 enthusiastic, the trick is, how to convince the NPS? Thanks for any advice or
 comment - Emma >>

   Was at Bent's Fort a couple years ago and had a discussion about whether or
not they had any rendezvous there.  The answer was a flat "NO".  TThe people
at the fort are apparantly of a mind set to say yes, but the Park Service
apparantly will under NO circumstances allow a rendezvous on the grounds of
the fort.

                                            Longshot

------------------------------

Date: 26 May 98 14:33:57 +0000
From: Phyllis and Don Keas <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Just tossing out an idea, would like ..some feed

Call Greg Holt or Carl Zimmerman or Craig Moore at the Fort and see what
they require as far as your idea goes.  Wouldn't hurt to ask-all they can
do is say no or come up with so many NPS hoops that it would not be worth
the trouble.  But, at least these guys will try anyway.
Don Keas


EmmaPeel2 wrote:
>Have spent the past 11 months researching the St. Vrain family, and ran
into a
>few Bent, Dubreil, and Derbigny descendants along the way.  The idea was
>casually dropped about having a reuinion for the descendants of those
who
>worked at and trapped for Bents FOrt.  Many still live in the area.
Just out
>of curiosity - I wonder how this could be done, and if anyone would
seriously
>be interested.  Since the MM are what MADE Bents Fort, it would be
unthinkable
>not to have a rendezvous of sorts.  Any suggestions? Or is this a
ridiculous
>idea? Thoughts welcome.  I know the St. Vrain descendants would be
>enthusiastic, the trick is, how to convince the NPS? Thanks for any
advice or
>comment - Emma
>
>
>
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 20:16:45 -0700
From: Dennis Fisher <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Indian vs. Europeans

      I my humble opinion, there is to much talking and not enough listening
going on in this subject.  A bunch of my relatives (the Hochstetlers) were
massacred by Indians on September 19th and 20th 1757.  They were devotely
religious and would not bear arms against the Indians even when their life
were threatened.  The Indians killed and scalped these unarmed farmers (men,
women, and children).  If I was one for holding a grudge, I guess I have a
good a reason as anyone.  But I'm not.  What happened, happened and there is
nothing any of us can do to change the past.  Just visit the South, they
still hold some very strong opinions on the Civil War down there.  But we can
do something about the future.  This is a good opportunity to open up a
dialogue and discuss some of these long held belief and feelings.  Although
it is pretty easy to know what a person "said" in an email message it is
really difficult figure out what he "meant".  There is no voice inflection,
no body language, no facial expression, no nothing.  Nothing except the
words.  So I would caution not to be to quick to take offense of what someone
posts until you find out what he really was trying to say.  I think most
people on the list are sincere and are not trying to strart a flame war.  The
face paint thread was interesting and a valid topic for discussion.  As a
European, I'm interested in learning all I can about the Indian way of
thinking and doing things.  The more I learn the more I understand where they
are coming from.  So I ask those of Indian decent to have a little patience
with me and help me to understand.  One thing we seem to have in common is a
distrust of the federal government.  If the Indians feel they are the only
ones that have been screwed by the government, have I got news for them.

      I would like to hear (from the Indian delegation on the list) some of
the misconceptions that they feel  the Europeans have about their culture.

                           Dennis

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 21:42:33 -0700
From: Dennis Fisher <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Bow and Arrows

Does anyone know how far back the bow and arrow goes here in North America?  It
would seems from the archaeological record of arrowheads that they must go back
quite a ways but I don't recall ever seeing any dated  info on bows that have
been found in ancient burials.  Would the points on atlatl (sp) darts be any
different that those used on bow launched arrows?

                       Dennis

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 07:10:42 -0700
From: [e-mail] (john c funk,jr)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Primitive archery

Matt,

Do you subscribe to "Primitive Archer" mag.?

John

_____________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 07:15:15 -0700
From: [e-mail] (john c funk,jr)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Information Requested on Davenport Rifle

Jerry,

There is a Davenport, Conn.  I used to live there as a kid.

John Funk

_____________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 19:27:14 -0400
From: Linda Holley <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Just tossing out an idea, would like some feedback

>
>
>    Was at Bent's Fort a couple years ago and had a discussion about whether or
> not they had any rendezvous there.

That is strange...I remember some big events in the early fall at Bents Fort.
What ever happened to those.  They started around 1980.

Linda Holley

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 18:01:54 -0500
From: Glenn Darilek <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Indian Sign Language

Ted A Hart asked if anyone still used American Indian Sign Language.

A Lakota medicine man who attended one of the Fritztown Free Trappers
rendezvous said he and the Lakota use some ISL in some of their
ceremonies.

Iron Burner

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 09:05:04 -0500
From: "Scott Allen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Recipe

You wrote:
Hi; I am new at this,I hope I am doing this right? I am looking for any recipes on Pemmican.
Thanks
             Little Larry


Little Larry of the Patuxents? Larry is that you?



Your most humble servant,
Scott Allen
http://members.tripod.com/~SCOTT

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 09:03:32 -0500
From: "Scott Allen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Poison Ivy

A good strong lye soap drys it up in no time flat.

Your most humble servant,
Scott Allen
http://members.tripod.com/~SCOTT

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 09:03:32 -0500
From: "Scott Allen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Poison Ivy

A good strong lye soap drys it up in no time flat.

Your most humble servant,
Scott Allen
http://members.tripod.com/~SCOTT

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 21:20:20 EDT
From: LODGEPOLE <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Just tossing out an idea, would like some feedback

In a message dated 98-05-26 20:16:56 EDT, you write:

<< >    Was at Bent's Fort a couple years ago and had a discussion about
whether or
 > not they had any rendezvous there.

 That is strange...I remember some big events in the early fall at Bents Fort.
 What ever happened to those.  They started around 1980.

 Linda Holley >>


  Dunno Linda, just know what they told me when I was there.

                                       Longshot

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 19:08:02 -0700
From: Longtrail <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Indian Sign Language

>Ted A Hart asked if anyone still used American Indian Sign Language.
>
>A Lakota medicine man who attended one of the Fritztown Free Trappers
>rendezvous said he and the Lakota use some ISL in some of their
>ceremonies.
>
>Iron Burner

Concerning Native American Sign Language.  There is a group of people in
the Portland area who, weekly, hold a meeting, and have for 10 + years, to
learn the Native American Sign language.  Some of the people are AMM while
I believe, others are not.  To attend a rendezvous with them is like being
from another country as they often communicate via sigh language.  NOT that
they are conceided in their knowletdge.  If you've taken time to learn then
you will know what theyare saying, if not then, you might feel"left out"..
I heard them discussing a time when some of them were visiting a location
where there were many Native Americans, as my friends used the traditional
sign language, the "elders" recognised what they were saying and were
amazed to see the "old ways" used.    Especially by Whites.   So there are
people who take the time and effort to learn the Native American sign
language and use it at rendezvous as it would have been used during the Fur
Trade Era by Native Americans.     Longtrail

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 21:56:20 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Ted A Hart)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Indian Sign Language

Hello Iron Burner...been a while since we last spoke :)  I've lost my
e-mail addresses yours and also a few others in particular...please
e-mail me your e-mail addresses.  Am putting them on paper this time
around.

Ted

p.s. Iron Burner...we need to talk later and thanks for the info I'll ask
more later on this.
Wish I had attended the rendezvous!  But having a dog that will go into a
funk and refuse to eat for three days without me is an disadvantage
espically if one doesn't have money to board the dog and the dog is a
wonderfully trained dog.


On Tue, 26 May 1998 18:01:54 -0500 Glenn Darilek <[e-mail]> writes:
>Ted A Hart asked if anyone still used American Indian Sign Language.
>
>A Lakota medicine man who attended one of the Fritztown Free Trappers
>rendezvous said he and the Lakota use some ISL in some of their
>ceremonies.
>
>Iron Burner
>
>

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 18:29:42 -0400
From: seanbear <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: mountain name

I was under the assumption that "camp names" were also given to the Mountain
Men... and NO, I do not have documentation on that... just from reading
numerous books... whether they were fictional or biographical, or what..
Regardless, it is fun to hear how some people got their "camp names".
Correct me if I am wrong, but is not Buckskinnin synonomous with Mountain
Man??

For those of you who are interested, I got my name "Seanbear" from my
wife...  Sean is my email handle, and Vicki thinks I am a "teddy bear"...
so... she started calling me Seanbear...  Fortunately, it was NOT from a
goof at a Ronny... <GRIN>  Yet.....

Seanbear

- -----Original Message-----
From: David Mullen <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Saturday, May 23, 1998 10:57 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: mountain name


>P.J.
>
>Sorry to have taken the thread too seriously. I was under the assumption
>that this was a history discussion list, not a buckskinner forum. Next
>time I will try and stay within the parameters of comtemporary
>buckskinning mores.
>
>It terms of it being fun, I personally find an intelligent discussion of
>history as being one heck of a good time. Unfortunately, seems many
>people would rather discuss opinion, with no substantiation in
>historical documentation,  as opposed to fact.
>
>YMHOS,
>
>David Mullen
>
>RR1LA wrote:
>>
>> seems maybe some folks have gotten a bit too serious about this thread.
we
>> try and have some fun here, too.  the names i been hearin all these years
are
>> 'camp names', like people have been gettin' for screwin' up for
centuries,
>> even in summer camps, day camps, school teams, etc.  its all part of the
fun
>> folks.    PJ
>
>--
>David Mullen
>202 Mesa Verde
>Jemez Springs, NM 87025
>505.829.3212
>email:[e-mail]
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 23:08:21 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Michael Pierce)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Information Requested on Davenport Rifle

Have been thru my books and other reference material and do not have
anything on Davenport.  Suggest you contact Lee Good At the Davis Museum
in Clarimore oklahoma.  he has a database with almost anything
imaginable--they also have one of the best collections of muzzle loading
rifles in the united states--I dont thank they have a web site yet but
contact him and i am sure he can help.  just call information and ask for
the museum.

      "Hawk"
Michael Pierce
854 Glenfield Dr.
Palm Harbor, florida   34684
1-[phone]

On Mon, 25 May 1998 15:53:59 -0700 (PDT) zaslow <[e-mail]>
writes:
>I realize this is not our time period (so let me appologize if it is
>offensive to anyone) but my sister in Florida asked me this question
>the
>other day and it is the fastest and easiest way I could think of to
>get the
>information.
>
>She has a friend who wants to buy a Davenport Rifle and get as much
>information on the manufacturer as he can.  It was manufactured during
>the
>Civil War and I would imagine it was for the North, since it was made
>in
>either Rhode Island or Connecticut.  Apparently, the person who wants
>this
>information is related to the original owner of the Davenport Arms
>Company.
>Since my interest is in the American Fur Trade, I have never heard of
>this
>manufacturer and was wondering if anyone had ever heard of it and
>could
>provide some information or knew of one for sale.
>
>If you want to respond off line, my E-Mail address is:
>[e-mail]
>
>I would appreciate any help.
>
>Thanks again,
>
>Jerry (Meriwether) Zaslow #1488
>
>
>

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 20:46:28 -0700
From: Gary Bell <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Indian Sign Language

Longtrail,

I live in the Portland OR area and would LOVE to find a sign language group to
learn and practice with!
I suspect that this topic will interest others on the list, and have replied
there instead of offline.  I have a bunch of Boy Scouts that would also be
interested in learning of such an opportunity.  If you would like to reply
offline catch me at:  [e-mail]   otherwise, perhaps you might agree with
me that there are some possibilities for other list subscribers to connect with
this opportunity and you would be willing to post a means of connecting with
this group online.

On a related but separate topic I find myself wondering about list contributors
who might be my neighbors, or who might be in some place I am going to visit;
and I certainly recall reading a lot of traffic about who lives where.  My
question / challenge:  Is there any way we can post our locations and means of
contacting us on the list or the website, without violating the individual's
needs to be private and safe from SPAM and other email varmints?  This appeals
to me as a new thread on our list, or perhaps Dean might already have solved
the issue and I simply didn't figure it out yet!

Night Heron (formerly Gary Bell, NoName and various other Mountain and put-down
names)


Longtrail wrote:

> >Ted A Hart asked if anyone still used American Indian Sign Language.
> >
> >A Lakota medicine man who attended one of the Fritztown Free Trappers
> >rendezvous said he and the Lakota use some ISL in some of their
> >ceremonies.
> >
> >Iron Burner
>
> Concerning Native American Sign Language.  There is a group of people in
> the Portland area who, weekly, hold a meeting, and have for 10 + years, to
> learn the Native American Sign language.  Some of the people are AMM while
> I believe, others are not.  To attend a rendezvous with them is like being
> from another country as they often communicate via sigh language.  NOT that
> they are conceided in their knowletdge.  If you've taken time to learn then
> you will know what theyare saying, if not then, you might feel"left out"..
> I heard them discussing a time when some of them were visiting a location
> where there were many Native Americans, as my friends used the traditional
> sign language, the "elders" recognised what they were saying and were
> amazed to see the "old ways" used.    Especially by Whites.   So there are
> people who take the time and effort to learn the Native American sign
> language and use it at rendezvous as it would have been used during the Fur
> Trade Era by Native Americans.     Longtrail

------------------------------

End of hist_text-digest V1 #73
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