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hist_text-digest        Tuesday, April 21 1998        Volume 01 : Number 054




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Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 17:30:43 -0700
From: Frank <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Cent. and Northern Calif. Rendezvous

P.D. Amschler wrote:

>  DOes anyone have an updated rondezvous list?

Next rendezvous:  May 1, 2 & 3.  Brushy Creek Rangers Rendezvous in the Grass Valley
area.  Booshway: Bonehead, 530-589-5549

That's all I know about in that area.  You just missed one in Redding.

Medicine Bear

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 15:35:01 -0600
From: "Ron" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Bad links

Here's the correct links.

http://www3.sympatico.ca/michel.viger/canadian-boot.htm

http://www.scenic-idaho.com/CoyotesCapotes/

Sorry, Ron

Email <[e-mail]>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 14:42:43
From: Carlson Wagonlit Travel <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Newbie

At 01:12 PM 4/17/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Greetings to all!
>
>My name is Ron Chamberlain, located in S. E. Idaho, I'm new to the list and
>Green in the ways of the Mt. Man. I'll be occasionally asking 'dumb'
>questions out of ignorance. Your patience and answers will be appreciated.
>Are 'Canadian Boots'
><http://www3.sympatico.ca/michel.viger/canadian.boot.htm> exceptable
>footware for pre 1840 voo's?
>What about 'Coyote's Capotes' using leather for fringe, instead of blanket
>materials? <http://www.scenicidaho.com/CoyotesCapotes/>
>
>Thanks, Ron
>
>Ron's Idaho Pages
><http://www.ida.net/users/cstmzd/>
>Email <[e-mail]>
>

Ron,
I don't know about the boots but the frindged capote is accepted at most
Rondys but
was technically used after the fur trade era. Keep in mind the mountain man
used what resources he
had available to him.

Matt Mitchell
Palouse Hills Muzzleloaders
Moscow, Idaho
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 18:12:34 +0000
From: Longtrail <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Uses of deerhair today

Ron, Do you know of anyone that does buy deer hair in bulk?  You had
written about the uses of deer hair on the History site.
              Joe

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 18:07:45 -0700
From: "JON P TOWNS" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Newbie

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_01BD6A2B.B90E44E0
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If you read the write up on those boots you would have found that they are
ok if you are a voyager which isn't to bad because I am one.  I don't go
out and rape and pillage.  I don't have to shovel horse shit 11 months out
of 12 so I can play my persona.  We tie the old Canot du Nord up in the
back yard and keep the black berries off it.  It went down the Missouri
River ok and we didn't have to feed it any oats and etc.  The boots are a
little spendy but if you have the money its ok.  Later Jon Towns

- ----------
: From: Ron <[e-mail]>
: To: [e-mail]
: Subject: MtMan-List: Newbie
: Date: Friday, April 17, 1998 12:12 PM
:
: Greetings to all!
:
: My name is Ron Chamberlain, located in S. E. Idaho, I'm new to the list
and
: Green in the ways of the Mt. Man. I'll be occasionally asking 'dumb'
: questions out of ignorance. Your patience and answers will be
appreciated.
: Are 'Canadian Boots'
: <http://www3.sympatico.ca/michel.viger/canadian.boot.htm> exceptable
: footware for pre 1840 voo's?
: What about 'Coyote's Capotes' using leather for fringe, instead of
blanket
: materials? <http://www.scenicidaho.com/CoyotesCapotes/>
:
: Thanks, Ron
:
: Ron's Idaho Pages
: <http://www.ida.net/users/cstmzd/>
: Email <[e-mail]>
:
- ------=_NextPart_000_01BD6A2B.B90E44E0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><p><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Arial">If you read the write up on those boots =
you would have found that they are ok if you are a voyager which isn't =
to bad because I am one.  I don't go out and rape and pillage. =
 I don't have to shovel horse shit 11 months out of 12 so I can =
play my persona.  We tie the old Canot du Nord up in the back yard =
and keep the black berries off it.  It went down the Missouri River =
ok and we didn't have to feed it any oats and etc.  The boots are a =
little spendy but if you have the money its ok.  Later Jon Towns =
  <br><br>----------<br>: From: Ron <<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>[e-mail]</u><font color=3D"#000000">><br>: =
To: <font color=3D"#0000FF"><u>[e-mail]</u><font =
color=3D"#000000"><br>: Subject: MtMan-List: Newbie<br>: Date: Friday, =
April 17, 1998 12:12 PM<br>: <br>: Greetings to all!<br>: <br>: My name =
is Ron Chamberlain, located in S. E. Idaho, I'm new to the list and<br>: =
Green in the ways of the Mt. Man. I'll be occasionally asking =
'dumb'<br>: questions out of ignorance. Your patience and answers will =
be appreciated. <br>: Are 'Canadian Boots'<br>: <<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>http://www3.sympatico.ca/michel.viger/canadian.boot.=
htm</u><font color=3D"#000000">> exceptable<br>: footware for pre =
1840 voo's? <br>: What about 'Coyote's Capotes' using leather for =
fringe, instead of blanket<br>: materials? <<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>http://www.scenicidaho.com/CoyotesCapotes/</u><font =
color=3D"#000000">><br>: <br>: Thanks, Ron<br>: <br>: Ron's Idaho =
Pages<br>: <<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>http://www.ida.net/users/cstmzd/</u><font =
color=3D"#000000">><br>: Email <<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>[e-mail]</u><font color=3D"#000000">><br>: =
</p>
</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></f=
ont></font></font></body></html>
- ------=_NextPart_000_01BD6A2B.B90E44E0--

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 20:32:22 -0700
From: "Roger Lahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Newbie

Hi Ron;
Welcome aboard!
I'm Roger Lahti "Captain Lahti" to my friends.
Asto your questions on Canadian Boots being OK. There is some evidence that
although many Rendezvousers wear them, they are realy not very correct for
the early 1800's. I get my info from the Research don by other members of
the AMM. My own opinion is that whether that is the final word or not you
would be better served to make your own moc's or have a friend make them
using one of the many traditional Indian patterns from the Great Lakes
region to the Plains and Columbia Basin ie. Flathead style. The same may be
said for your quiry about capotes. Use a simple style and make it yourself.
You will be dressed much more authenticly and look less like a pilgrim or
worse! There is a lot going on in the interior North West in the way of
really primitive do'ins so get geared up proper and let me know how you are
coming. Oh yea, I believe that it has beeen found that fring of any kind was
hard to find if not noexistant on original capootes.
My learned opinion for what it's worth. Roger "Capt." Lahti 2030 4/13

- -----Original Message-----
From: Ron <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Friday, April 17, 1998 1:03 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: Newbie





>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 10:44:00 -0600
From: "David Tippets" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: 5" brim Hats, and Why I Hate Sketchbooks.

Angela,

Father Nicholas Point capture several jockey caps in his paintings and
sketches (1841-1847), and that art is reproduced in the book that I referred
you to earlier.  One jockey cap is on a young man in a portrait, and the cap
it depicted in some detail.  Among other things, Father Point shows a ribbon
or drawstring the runs around inside the cap's headband and ties in front
above the visor, making the cap adjustable for head size.

The shape and form of this particular cap suggest that it was made of
leather, or some other material stiff enough to hold a round dome-shaped
crown.  In almost all the Point paintings, that I can recall, with men
included in the scened wearing jockey caps, the cap's crowns are very round
and dome shaped.  That same shape is also consistently depicted in the
Indian art published along with Point's art and journal.

It is also interesting to note, and it perhaps lends some supportive
information -- that heavy leather-crowned hats with front visors, called
helmets, were used by the British military as least as late as the American
Revolution.  There is a sketch of a leather baseball-cap-type helmets  in
one of the kinds of books your really hate, but I won't mention it for fear
of stimulating another rant. (Sketchbook of the American Revolution)

The leather military helmet may be easier to document than period jockey
caps, and I'll try to remember to look for an example next time that I
happen to visit the museum in the Tower of London that houses the big
collection of historical British body armour.  Last time I was there, my
kids drug me through the armour and weapons at such high speed that I could
hardly learn anything about the arms or armour. Unfortunately, the kids had
learned earlier that there is a torture chamber in the dungeon and didn't
have any surplus patience to waste on the rest of museum.

I believe it was Dean Rudy, who mentioned to me a few months ago, that the
modern English-style protective riding helmets (worn for jumping and fox
hunting) that have a shape similar to small caps with visors can, in some
similar form, be traced back through many generations of British art
depicting equestrian scenes.  Your British cousins seem slow to change the
fashion required for old traditional sporting events.  I'd bet my buckskins
that a person could find pictures of jockey caps for just about any segement
of the fur trade captured in similar period art in the gallaries in Great
Britain.  It seems that one of the duties of all royal families is to
commission lots of art, and royal families seem to have an affinity of for
all things equestrian.  Finding and documenting jockey caps should be easier
than finding other "holy grail" of the fur trade, such as those duck capotes
I'm looking for.

Dave Tippets


- -----Original Message-----
From: Angela Gottfred <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Monday, April 13, 1998 4:26 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: 5" brim Hats, and Why I Hate Sketchbooks.


>Dave "Manywounds" Parks <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>Hi Ron,    Yes, the 5" brim would run all the way around the crown, if
>>it was just in the front.....it would look like a baseball cap.
>
>Baseball-style caps did exist in the fur trade. They were (and are) called
>'jockey caps'. David Thompson took 6 jockey caps over the Athabasca Pass in
>1810-1811 (Belyea, 255-257). In 1820, the HBC's George Simpson ordered over
>50 jockey caps for the Athabasca outfit of 1821-1822. In the _Voyageur's
>Sketchbook_, there is a sketch on around page 4 of a jockey cap decorated
by
>marabou feathers. The original of this sketch is attributed to "Meyer".
>
>--Rant alert!--
>I HATE SKETCHBOOKS! They drive me N-U-T-S! I don't know of any artist
called
>"Meyer" who drew or painted voyageurs, and there is no other indication in
>the sketchbook of the name of the painting, the full name of the artist, or
>where this particular painting or drawing might be found. The same goes for
>almost everything else in this sketchbook, and this is typical of
>sketchbooks aimed at reenactors--lots of pretty pictures and very definite
>statements, but very rarely is there anything to back up the claims or
>explain where to find the original source. Yet the information often comes
>from people who are, presumably, knowledgeable in the subject area... It
>makes me want to take the author/artist and shake them...
>--End of rant.--
>
> I'd love to know more about jockey caps.
>
>Your humble & obedient servant,
>Angela Gottfred
>[e-mail]
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 15:16:17 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Joe Brandl)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Newbie

Ron,
What area of pre 1840's are you looking for? Sometimes, items that were
readily available in the east, took several years to be introduced to the
west. Capotes were just not a common item of most western mtn men. Either a
boot or more common a leather shoe (brogon) or if in the western states, a
side seam moccasins. Moccasins are probally recorded as being worn most
often. The "Holy Grail" of historical readings for any fur trade
participatant is the Museum of the Fur Trade Quarterly. Be careful when you
read any any books on the fur trade as each have varioius opinions and
interpretations of artist works, journals of the time era. Never use only
one source as being it. The quarterlies though use different authors for
articles. It was a sad day in history when Charley Hanson died this month.
I have the address to write to: Museum of the Fur Trade, 6321 highway 20,
Chadron, NEf 69337, $10 per year
Joe

Absaroka Western Designs and Tannery
Call us about our professional home tanning kit-307-455-2440
We produce rawhide lampshades and carry a large selection of leather and
hair on robes
Fine lodgepole furniture, pillows, Indian reproductions, paintings, baskets
check out our new web site: http://www.onpages.com/absaroka

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 07:31:29 -0500
From: "Scott Allen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Going to the Fair

Hello the list(s),

I'll be going to postpone mode this afternoon before taking off for
the Market Fair. If anyone needs any last minute directions or
information email before about 3 p.m. EST. Anyone who is coming to
visit, have a safe trip and please stop by and say hi.
For those heading out to the MLML '98 in Iowa, please be safe and
have a grand time.
See ya back here on Monday!




Your most humble servant,
Scott Allen
Hunter and Scout for Fort Frederick
Fairplay, MD
http://members.tripod.com/~SCOTT

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 13:46:37 EDT
From: Dejawog <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re:

hey there.. have a good time at the fair.....
we're looking for rendezvous in the OH, PA, IN, MI, VA areas..
anyone know anything coming up, or have a list of them?  thanx
Dejavous

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 13:43:16 -0500
From: Barry Powell <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re:

At 01:46 PM 4/21/98 EDT, you wrote:
>hey there.. have a good time at the fair.....
>we're looking for rendezvous in the OH, PA, IN, MI, VA areas..
>anyone know anything coming up, or have a list of them?  thanx
>Dejavous
>
>

Got one coming on Memorial Day weekend in Vincennes IN, Sat. and Sun. at the
George Rogers Clark Memorial grounds. Pretty good rendezvous. About 150,000
attend both days.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 12:20:48 -0700
From: Dave Parks <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: 150,000 people?

Barry Powell wrote:
>
> At 01:46 PM 4/21/98 EDT, you wrote:
> >hey there.. have a good time at the fair.....
> >we're looking for rendezvous in the OH, PA, IN, MI, VA areas..
> >anyone know anything coming up, or have a list of them?  thanx
> >Dejavous
> >
> >
>
> Got one coming on Memorial Day weekend in Vincennes IN, Sat. and Sun. at the
> George Rogers Clark Memorial grounds. Pretty good rendezvous. About 150,000
> attend both days.


      I hope you meant to say 1,500 people Barry, I don't think I'd want
to be at a 'Voo with 150,000 people attending! Imagine the lines to the
outhouses! I don't think that many people show up to all the Voo's in
the US put together. But it would SURE be a SIGHT to SEE, if they did!

                        Regards,  _M_  Manywounds
                                   W

------------------------------

End of hist_text-digest V1 #54
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