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hist_text-digest        Monday, March 23 1998        Volume 01 : Number 042




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Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 03:52:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Lee Newbill <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Camp Gear, Tents & Cookware

On Thu, 19 Mar 1998, Mtnman1449 wrote:
> Two things happen then:  first, you get smarter and have
> and begin to build an impressive library becoming incredibly smart like
> Tippets, and second, without food to eat, you kid become less of an expense
> and will hopefully learn to live off the land.  Pat Surrena #1449

Pat

A good idea on checking the back issues, Dean has a listing of the
Quarterly at: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/html/mftq.html
(it's printing out now... a leetle tiny for me old eyes though!)

Getting smarter.... nah.... me lovely bride sez that's not the direction I
generally move in :)

As to the kids food money, if'n I could just get 'em to water the garden,
feed the pigs and check the chickens on a somewhat consistent basis,
instead of running a petting zoo, I could probably cut back on store
bought food completey (except fer stuff that I caint grow on the side of
an Idaho cliff), then I could afford some really important stuff like some
new riding stock, or maybe even a new pair of spectacles <G>

Appreciate the info!

Regards

Lee Newbill
Viola, Idaho
email at [e-mail]
Keeper of the "Buckskins & Blackpowder" Webpage
http://www.uidaho.edu/~lnewbill/bp.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 09:27:37 -0800 (PST)
From: zaslow <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Old German Smoothbore

Wet Shirt,

I can't help you with restoring the smoothbore, but maybe can help you with
the meaning of the "A's" on all the parts.  I have an original 3rd model
Brown Bess.  It was shootable when I bought it, so it didn't have to be
restored.  Besides the usual Tower of London touch marks on the barrel and
lock, it also has a very interesting mark carved into the stock, a Roman
Numeral XVIII.  At first, I thought it was a regiment mark or something like
that, but about a year or so after aquiring it, Dave Conte and I took it
apart to do some re-conditioning work.  To our surprise we found that every
part had the same XVIII carved in it.  It was at that time we realized what
it meant.

This gun was made in 1792 or 1793.  I was able to determine that from touch
marks, the way the cock was made and comparing it to descriptions and
pictures in a Brown Bess book that I have.  Back then every gun was a custom
made piece and they did not have assembly lines.  In order to keep things
straight, when they got the parts together to assemble a musket, they marked
them with a common letter or number, so that if anything got mixed up, they
would know which gun the part belonged to.  It was just as simple as that.

I think the "A" on every part is probably a way to keep the parts from
getting mixed up with others being made at the same time.  Also, is this
smoothbore a military musket?  If it is, that would make me believe even
more what I have said since they made many military weapons at the same time.

Also, to get on the Mountain Man list, just E-Mail Dean Rudy at
[e-mail] and tell him you want to be added to the list.

Hope this helps.

Best Regards,

Jerry (Meriwether) Zaslow #1488
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
At 08:40 AM 3/20/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Old fox,
>    How does one get on that muzzleloaders mailing list (MML) I am
>surly interested.
>    A friend of mine is trying to restore an original smoothbore, it
>is of possibly german origin, the only marks on it are as follows;
>1.) directly in front of the hammer hole, on the lock plate is the name
>        D..NEPPES
>The fist "E" in Neppes may be an "I" do to wear I'm not sure
>2.) there are "A's" on the inside of the lock plate and on the heads of
>most of the internal screws
>These are the only clues
>Any help would be appreciated
>Many thanks
>Wet Shirt #1645
>Aux Ailments de Pays!
>
>_____________________________________________________________________
>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
>Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 14:48:06 -0500
From: "Pearce Gardner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: deer hides

Longtrail asked about obtaining a supply of deer hides.

Last summer, the Game Dept. gave a local landowner damage permits to kill a
truck load of deer.  Some of the farm hands took their rifles and each
evening would shoot until the barrels overheated on their rifles and/or the
deer all ran back into the woods, then would take and field dress the deer
and put them in a refrigerated truck which "Hunters for the Hungry" donated.
This went on until the truck was full.  The truck then took the deer to a
processing plant where they were butchered and the meat given to the hungry.
You may want to check with Hunters for the Hungry to find out about the
plans for this summer.  Check out
http://www.flash.net/~unicom/hungry/hungry1.htm for an index listing across
the Country.

Good luck.

Bwana

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 03:28:21 -0700
From: "David Tippets" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Deer hides & numbers

Dear Forest,

There's no question that lion numbers are up and no question that lions can
kill and eat lots of deer.  It's interesting how how quickly it has become a
popular theme in Utah for hunters to blame lions for the drop in deer
numbers.  Last fall as we encountered discouraged hunters who weren't seeing
deer where they used to see many, almost everyone of them attributed the
downward trend to lions.

It seems sad that so many hunters are seeing loss of winter habitat, but so
few are connecting  the downward trend in deer population loss of habitat.
You mentioned Browns Park, which is in one of the most remote corners of the
State, but even Browns Park has a new subdivision on what used to be
undeveloped winter range.  I was in Browns park in January during a light
snowstorm scouting for a campsite near the location of the old Fort Davy
Crocket. The first thing next morning houndsmen who lived in the subdivision
were out driving all the back roads with their hounds in the backs of their
pickups, hoping to cut a fresh cat track.  They didn't appear to have any
luck and were back in the subdivision by lunch.

It occurs to me that if we preserve the habitat it's a win-win for all
concerned -- the deer, the deer hunters, the lions, and the lion hunters.
But if we invest all our energy casing the cats while the land developers
are gobbling up all the winter range then we all lose, except for the
developers.  Those of us who love the land can patiently weather the ups and
downs of predator and prey cycles, but once the habitat is converted to
other uses; the deer, the lions, and generations of hunters not yet born all
lose out.

Last winter I trapped predators on one of Utah's State Game Ranges that has
traditionally been thought of as about the best mountain lion habitat in the
State.  One night, a lion killed and partially ate a coyote that I'd caught
in a snare.  Other than that, I didn't see any lion sign all season, and saw
probably over a hundred deer and elk carcasses that had been eaten up by
coyotes and fox.  Most of those carcasses were form animals that had starved
too death wintering on sunny south facing slope that were cover with
cheatgrass where once sagegrush, rabbit brush, bitterbrush, and other browse
had once covered those same slopes.

Point is, we may compete with mountain lions to make meat this year, but
whether our grandchildren can make meat 30 years from now doesn't have
nearly as much to do with lions as is it does with our willingness to
conserve wildlife habitat that we still have left to preserve.  In my mind,
the current healthy lion populations have become a dangerous distraction
from the much greater threat of habitat loss.

Dave T.


- -----Original Message-----
From: Forrest Smouse <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Wednesday, March 18, 1998 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Deer hides & numbers


>
>
>Manywounds wrote:
>
>>       Winter kill is the number one cause of deer population decreases
>> and always has been. Severe cold weather or large amounts of snow
>> staying on the ground for weeks covering up their food supply are the
>> main reason for drops in deer counts. Road kill numbers can be high
>> along with coyote predation.
>
>Here in eastern Utah our deer's worst predator is the lion.  We have an
over
>population lions which the farmers are now having problems with.   Two
>Muzzle loader hunts ago while hunting in Browns Park I came upon a secluded
>spot of large junipers. In this almost tunnel like spot my partner and I
>found 30 yearling buck skeletons, all apparent lion kills. The Fish and
>wildlife has finally upped the Lion harvest for this area.
>
>Forrest Smouse  #1691
>LaPoint, Utah
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 07:38:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Josh Swinehart <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Museum of the fur trade

Would someone be so kind as to post the address for the Museum of the
fur trade and membership costs?

JS





_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 20:11:04 EST
From: SWcushing <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: "Black Iron Frying Pans"

Henry,

Spotted a couple nice "Black Iron" (heavy sheet metal?) frying pans in an
antique store.....would these be acceptable for pre-1840? ..."Don't need no
stinkin cast iron pans......."

Steve


------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 20:00:45 EST
From: SWcushing <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Cannon Balls

Hello the list,

In a recent discussion of the fur trade, I mentioned that it was not uncommon
for a large supply caravan headed to the spring rondy, to bring with them a
field piece, (cannon) for protection and to impress the hell out of the
locals. The question was raised......."did they have exploding cannon balls,
or did they just shoot rocks and stuff?" Ah.....I dunno,...... and for that
matter when and how did they make "exploding cannon balls?"

Steve

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 19:41:41 EST
From: SWcushing <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re:  Re: MtMan-List: Museum of the fur trade

In a message dated 3/22/98 12:31:51 PM, you wrote:

<<Would someone be so kind as to post the address for the Museum of the
fur trade and membership costs?

JS
>>

    Museum of Fur Trade
    PO Box 1276
    Chadron, NE 69337
Membership is $10 US or $13 Canadian & foreign......also get a list of back
issues of the "Quarterly"....good stuff!

Steve

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 08:37:49 -0600
From: Jim Lindberg <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Museum of the fur trade

Just happen to be writing a check out to join myself.

Address is:

The Museum of the Fur Trade
6321 Highway 20
Chadron, Nebraska 6937



Membership is $10 a year and includes free visitation and the Quarterly.

Jim

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
  /`-_    Jim Lindberg                 |Les Voyageurs du Val du Chippewa
 { .   }/ 724 East Grand Avenue        |
  \    /  Chippewa Falls, WI 54729 USA |Sweete water and light laughter,
   |___|  http://reality.sgi.com/jal/  |Until we next meete.  Go Gentle.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 09:38:43 -0600 (CST)
From: [e-mail] (Henry B. Crawford)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: "Black Iron Frying Pans"

>Henry,
>
>Spotted a couple nice "Black Iron" (heavy sheet metal?) frying pans in an
>antique store.....would these be acceptable for pre-1840? ..."Don't need no
>stinkin cast iron pans......."
>
>Steve

Sheet iron was available.  For the Rendezvous period, At least in this
case, it's more a matter of styling than material.  In the Southwest, sheet
iron comales (griddles) were very common.  Considering that you often see
tipis at eastern gatherings (where, historically, they wouldn't be) black
sheet iron frying pans shouldn't give you any trouble.  The safe thing to
do might be to make sure they don't have the insulated metal handles
characteristic of late 19th century sheet iron pans.  They should be as
plain as possible.  Some were made with with long handles, but there may
have been some with shorter ones.

Page 91 of Newmann and Kravic's _Collectors Encycl. of the American
Revolution_  illustrates some sheet iron frying pans and spider-style pans
used during the American Revolution.  Such styles remained in common use
through the middle years of the 19th century.  Happy cooking!

Cheers,
HBC

*****************************************
Henry B. Crawford        Curator of History
[e-mail]     Museum of Texas Tech University
806/742-2442           Box 43191
FAX [phone]             Lubbock, TX  79409-3191
               WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
**********    Opening Day, March 31!!!    **********

------------------------------

End of hist_text-digest V1 #42
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