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From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #38 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Monday, March 16 1998 Volume 01 : Number 038 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 20:20:05 -0500 From: sean@naplesnet.com (Addison O. Miller) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Camp Gear, Tents & Cookware Lee... For our Treks, I use a 10x10 canvas and make a diamond fly... I carry a bioler pot 4" in daimeter, and a wee coffee pot I found at Ronny somewhere. MAkes 2 cups (about 1 pint +). I also use a 9" wrought iron skillet that I can put a stick into to hold it. Found out the hard way that damn iron handle gets hot quick!!! That usually lets me cook anything I need to cook.... oh... and my tin coffee cup. Most of this is shown in the Highland Rangers Sketch Book. I'll get you the info on the book... its at the office at present. Its during Oglethorpes Hingland Rangers here in north america. Every thing fits into or on my canvas "backpack". 2 blankets, eatin ware, a wooden bowl, canteen, spy glass, fire kit, some pine knots, possible bag and horns, compass/sun dial, fishing kit, hawk, good knife, grub, musket, towel and biodegradable soap (I cheat a bit), extra shirt and knickers, 2 pr socks, small candle "flashlight", 4-6 candles, pipe and fixin's... that about does it. The 10x10 fly gives me enough room for me and my gear, and cook under if it is bad weather. I have a way of folding it so it is nice and snug if it is REALLY raining. We don't have snow here in South Florida... Addison Miller ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 20:18:34 -0800 (PST) From: Josh Swinehart <totwolf@yahoo.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Fur Trade Quarterly Would someone please post the snail mail address or URL for the Fur Trade Quarterly I am just getting into re-enacting and could use any material I can get my hands on, thanks, JS _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 02:28:31 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Newbill <lnewbill@uidaho.edu> Subject: MtMan-List: Tents Hallo the Camp! I appreciate all the responses I got on the tent question. Interesting thing on the Baker tents... I asked one of the companies that makes 'em (Don Strinz Tipi, Inc.), and got the following answer. ***************************************** While the Baker style tent is accepted at most rendezvous, it was not actually introduced until around 1900. These were given to such groups as the Boy Scouts as military surplus. Since many people had them, they became accepted at the rendezvous. But to be accurate, they do not fit the 1810 time period. (From Jo Strinz) ***************************************** This is from the folks that research the tents, then manufacture and sell 'em. I must admit disappointment as they appeared to be a neat package :( >From the replys I've gotten, looks like a lot of folks swear by the 10x10 canvas diamond, and that is where my greenbacks will go. Regards Lee Newbill Viola, Idaho email at lnewbill@uidaho.edu Keeper of the "Buckskins & Blackpowder" Webpage http://www.uidaho.edu/~lnewbill/bp.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 09:23:06 -0600 From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <rat@htcomp.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Fw: cookware & shelters This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01BD4FF3.F66FA100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable - -----Original Message----- From: Lanney Ratcliff <rat@htcomp.net> To: lnewbill@uidaho.edu <lnewbill@uidaho.edu> Date: Saturday, March 14, 1998 11:10 PM Subject: cookware & shelters Lee I have one of the folding skillets that several people have refered to. = It is a terrific item, if a little pricey. I got mine about three years = ago and have had more offers to trade than I can list. I haunted flea = markets and garage sales until I found a lid that fit perfectly and = looked right. I keep a muslin bag of dried grub, a small horn with salt = & pepper (together) and a spoon in the skillet with the handle folded = and tied over the lid. I keep the whole thing in a lightweight canvas = bag to keep the soot, etc from getting everywhere. I hope I can manage = to live long enough to wear it out, because it built like a Mosler safe. = If you want to go light you can more than manage with that skillet and = a big tin cup. A big corn boiler is lightweight, etc but I had a hard = time documenting it back far enough and gave it to a Civil War = re-enactor. Get a big tin lined copper kettle if you need a bigger pot. = Cast iron pots go back forever but they are as heavy as, well, iron. =20 I use a 10 X 10 canvas set up as a diamond fly and have plenty of room = for all my gear, a stash of water (and a little firewood if the weather = is rainy) together with my six foot six, 350 pound self. However, with = all that duffle under there any companion should be prepared to snuggle. = You can also keep a small fire pretty well sheltered from most rain out = under the front "fly". If your bedroll is a good one you can be = remarkly comfortable in pretty cold weather. I kept plenty warm with = the outside temperature at 6 degrees in January 1996 on the banks of the = Rio de los Brazos de Dios in north Texas. (River of the Arms of = God---the Brazos River). =20 As someone said, a Baker tent probably can't be documented to the early = 19th century--possibly only to the early 20th century. =20 =20 YF&B Lanney Ratcliff rat@htcomp.net=20 - ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01BD4FF3.F66FA100 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 = http-equiv=3DContent-Type><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 = HTML//EN"> <META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3DGENERATOR> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-----Original = Message----- From:=20 Lanney Ratcliff <<A=20 href=3D"mailto:rat@htcomp.net">rat@htcomp.net</A>> To: <A=20 href=3D"mailto:lnewbill@uidaho.edu">lnewbill@uidaho.edu</A> <<A=20 href=3D"mailto:lnewbill@uidaho.edu">lnewbill@uidaho.edu</A>> Dat= e:=20 Saturday, March 14, 1998 11:10 PM Subject: cookware &=20 shelters </DIV> <DIV>Lee</DIV> <DIV>I have one of the folding skillets = that several=20 people have refered to. It is a terrific item, if a little = pricey. I=20 got mine about three years ago and have had more offers to trade than I = can=20 list. I haunted flea markets and garage sales until I found a lid = that fit=20 perfectly and looked right. I keep a muslin bag of dried grub, a = small=20 horn with salt & pepper (together) and a spoon in the skillet with = the=20 handle folded and tied over the lid. I keep the whole thing in a = lightweight=20 canvas bag to keep the soot, etc from getting everywhere. I hope I = can=20 manage to live long enough to wear it out, because it built like a = Mosler=20 safe. If you want to go light you can more than manage with that = skillet=20 and a big tin cup. A big corn boiler is lightweight, etc but I had = a hard=20 time documenting it back far enough and gave it to a Civil War = re-enactor. =20 Get a big tin lined copper kettle if you need a bigger pot. Cast = iron pots=20 go back forever but they are as heavy as, well, iron.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I use a 10 X 10 canvas set up as a = diamond fly=20 and have plenty of room for all my gear, a stash of water (and a little = firewood=20 if the weather is rainy) together with my six foot six, 350 pound = self. =20 However, with all that duffle under there any companion should be = prepared to=20 snuggle. You can also keep a small fire pretty well sheltered from = most=20 rain out under the front "fly". If your bedroll is = a good=20 one you can be remarkly comfortable in pretty cold weather. I kept = plenty=20 warm with the outside temperature at 6 degrees in January 1996 on the = banks of=20 the Rio de los Brazos de Dios in north Texas. (River of the Arms = of=20 God---the Brazos River).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As someone said, a Baker tent = probably can't be=20 documented to the early 19th century--possibly only to the early 20th=20 century. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>YF&B</DIV> <DIV>Lanney Ratcliff</DIV> <DIV><A=20 href=3D"mailto:rat@htcomp.net">rat@htcomp.net</A> </DIV></BOD= Y></HTML> - ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01BD4FF3.F66FA100-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 09:09:15 +0000 From: Longtrail <ezra@midrivers.com> Subject: MtMan-List: deer hides I am running short of hides, please advise if you know of any deer farms. Also would be interested in setting something up with individuals for the next hunting season. Thanks Longtrail ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 11:29:17 -0700 From: "David Tippets" <wolverine76@email.msn.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Camp Gear, Tents & Cookware Anyone who hasn't already done it should checkout Tentsmith's web site. They've got about as much historical documentation on tents as I've seen in anyone location. The earliest documentation that they've found for the bakers tent is 1856, and that documentation is in the writing of Henry David Thoreau. It's a long way from Walden Pond to the Great Salt Lake. - -----Original Message----- From: RR1LA <RR1LA@aol.com> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Date: Saturday, March 14, 1998 12:29 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Camp Gear, Tents & Cookware >Dear Lee, This pilgrim can't answer your question about tent documentation, >but can say that I've camped in a number of squares (diamond flys), and >although an 8 footer was ok for one in a primitive situation, there was no >headroom; a 12 footer slept two comfy with gear outside the fly, and a 16 >footer slept two real comfy, room for the gear down the middle and room to >stand up inside, outta the weather. I'll leave the responses about Bakers' to >others, but I hear you wont find any documentation about them, cuz they >weren't there at the time you mention. > >As far as I can tell about cookware, a cast iron kettle, although weighty, >allows you to keep a 'stew' going for days as you add stuff to it. The light- >weight corn boiler serves many useful purposes; combined with a 'squirrel >cooker' for your meat and you're in business. Folding frying pans seem to be >a happy medium, and are available from The Mountain Forge, High Point NC (910) >454-4366 and as they advertise, they are documented, from "Grants Pouch" >book, pg 197" > >Hoping this give you some 'food for thought'. YMHOS, PJ > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 11:35:58 -0700 From: "David Tippets" <wolverine76@email.msn.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Capote oxymorons You got the first part correct, but if you checked one of the replies, you'd see that if you were a sailor docked in a French port, you wouldn't go on shore leave without your capote, and that a guy probably should have been schooled in that wisdom by his mother. It's amazing the wisdom that can be gleaned from people who participate in this dialogue. - -----Original Message----- From: zaslow <zaz@pacificnet.net> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Date: Saturday, March 14, 1998 12:30 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Capote oxymorons >David, > >I think I get it. If you are a mountaineer that has a capote without hood, >then you have no testicles and become a mountain gelding. > >Boy, am I glad my capote has a hood!!! > >Sorry, I couldn't resist. It really is a good piece of research. > >Best Regards, > >Jerry (Meriwether) Zaslow #1488 > >>However, if they are a capote they do have to have a hood. The hood could >>be detachable, but when it's detached you don't have a capote. It's much >>like a stallion; by definition the stallion has testicles, and once they are >>detached you no longer have a stallion -- you have a gelding -- not a >>stallion with detachable testicles. >> >>To take this strain of thought a step further, mountain men weren't beaver >>trappers with detachable capotes. You don't by definition have to have a >>copote if you are a mountain man, but you do by definition have to have >>testicles. So if a modern mountain man is inclined to prefer a large >>overcoat with no hood, let him have the courage to defy the modern cultural >>norms of behavior and venture forth to rendezvous capoteless. >> >>Hope this really clears things up. >> >>Dave T. >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Basha Richey <mstar176@wf.net> >>To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> >>Cc: Mstar176@wf.net <Mstar176@wf.net> >>Date: Monday, March 09, 1998 4:48 PM >>Subject: MtMan-List: Sack hats >> >> >>>Longtrail, >>> Nice link for reproduction fabrics. Patchworks, is going on my >>>favorite list. I was particularly intrested in the indigo material. >>> Wes Housler had a nice period piece at the RMNR last year in Montana. >>>It was a cap made from a scrap of wool, essentially a bag with exagerated >>>corners (to resemble ears) with one side cut out for his face. There are >>>many examples in Alfred Jacob Millers artwork of this type of headgear. The >>>one that comes to mind, is the oil painting of the "Trappers Bride". Two >>>of the trappers in the background are wearing "sacks". It seems to me, >>>that if you didn't have a hat, that one of these simple creations would be >>>a good substitute. Miller also shows hunters using them to approach game, >>>on all-fours, as camoflodge. In the AJM painting titled "Trappers and >>>horses around a fire" used as an illustration in Ruxtons "Life In The Far >>>West"(edited by Hafen) is a trapper wearing a "sack" made with a checked or >>>crossed, striped pattern. Since the bags were made out of anything that >>>was available (my opinion) then a piece if the woven Indigo from patchworks >>>might be a nice piece of material for a reproduction of that trappers "Sky >>>Piece". >>> I believe Paul Mueller said in a recent link, that hoods were not >>>attached to capotes, rather were buttoned or tied on. Am I wrong about the >>>"sacks" or were they hoods for Capotes? Miller's paintings have few, if >>>any capotes, but it was summertime. If anybody would like to shed light on >>>the origins of the "sacks", I would be glad to hear it. >>> >>>John Richey >>>"Yellow Stone" >>> >>> >> >> > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 13:19:55 -0700 From: "David Tippets" <wolverine76@email.msn.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Capotes, hoods & etc. Henry, Boy am I impressed! I had three professors in college who all passed through Lubbock and Texas Tech on their way achieving academic accolades and you have a better education than all three of them combined. Of course, it's possible that they had a liberal education when they left Lubbock, but that they lost it when they passed through College Station. (If that doesn't bait Clay Landry into this fray, he's either sleeping or working off-line.) You make a good point, and it kind of reminds me of some of the debates I've heard about the meaning of various passages in the Bible. If you can't read Latin, Greek, and Hebrew -- you hadn't better even start to participate in those debates. In the case of "capote," however, isn't there some common meaning to how the root has been used in all those different language? For example, in the use of the root in capital, doesn't it communicate a building with a dome covering -- with the dome being the hood implied from the Latin root "cap?" It appears that when you broaden the analysis to how words with same root are used in the other romantic languages that you you come up with same results -- it's something that covers the top. The alarming thing about taking this angle on the historical use of the word, "capote", is that the educated journal keepers of the day, such as David Thompson, Peter Skene Ogden, Peter Fiedler, et al, had a better education in Latin and other languages than do most of the people do who read their journals today. Knowing Latin and other languages was, then, a more important part of a person's education. I'll venture to suggest that most of the traders and their clerks employed by NWC or HBC would have known and understood more about the specific meaning of the words they chose to use than most us do today who study their records. In addition to capote, other good examples of fur trade words and names that we've inherited include Boise, Nez Perce, Tetons, Gross Ventre, etc.. When those words were first applied by people in the fur trade they had specific descriptive value that most people in the business understood. Today, fewer of us have the education in Latin or French to appreciate the descriptive value of the word's roots. I'm going to hang tough in the belief that the fur traders who wrote the word "capote" in 1820 fully appreciated and utilized the word's descriptive quality. On the other hand, I fear, it's the neo-traders at buckskin rendezvous whose simpler vocabularies are creating an evolution towards a less descriptive trade language. Dave T. Aux Aliments de Patisseries - -----Original Message----- From: Henry B. Crawford <mxhbc@TTACS.TTU.EDU> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Date: Thursday, March 12, 1998 8:31 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Capotes, hoods & etc. >>Basha Richey wrote: >> >>> Dave T, >>> Thanks for exposing the roots, that was just exactly the >>> type of >>> info I was looking for. If anyone cares to contribute more, we >>> will boil >>> 'em down an make a tea. >>> I appreciate the precise definition of the french origin >>> of the name >>> of the hooded garments. >> >><snip out some stuff> >>I feel a little awkward quoting latin in the mountain man camp. >>My dictionary also traces the term capote back to the French, but >>clearly the root word for a whole host of terms, from capital to >>cap to kaput is the Latin capitalis. I wonder if there is an >>even older Greek term that is similar! Anyway, I see a >>continuous tradition of hooded military and civilian capes and >>coats preceding the nineteenth century. > >Just to throw more hardware into the works, the Spanish term capote, with >the accent on th last syllable, translates as "cape." Three years ago, I >wrote the history of a log cabin here at the Museum that was moved from >Guadalupe County, Texas. The structure is officially called the El Capote >Cabin. It came from a stock farm of the same name, so named because of the >cape-like land formations located near the farm. The formations were named >way back during the Spanish period, pre 1821. It does not surprise me that >the French, Latin, and Spanish terms are identical except for slight >differences in pronounciation. > >My two pesos. > >Cheers, >HBC > >***************************************** >Henry B. Crawford Curator of History >mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Museum of Texas Tech University >806/742-2442 Box 43191 >FAX 742-1136 Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 > WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum >********** Opening Day, March 31!!! ********** > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 14:21:39 -0700 From: "David Tippets" <wolverine76@email.msn.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Capote oxymorons Paul, Can you provide the citation for the literature that you quote? It sounds interesting. I'm not sure what we can conclude from the quotation you offer. Is it that some capotes had collars and others had hoods, ergo if they had collars they did not have hoods -- that a collar is exclusive of a hood? This inference my not be all that meaningful, given that some capotes had both collars and hoods, as is illustrated in one of the capotes in shown in one of Hansen's and Wilson's Mountain Man Sketchbooks. Since the French word's root means that it the coat covers the head, it seems more logical to conclude that the author's meaning was that the slave's capote had no collar, rather than that his master's capote (coat with a hood) had no hood. The French word generally used for a coat without a hood is "manteau." The author you quote certainly could have said, had it been his meaning, that everyone wore blanket manteaus. When you suggest that this passage shows that in 1803 Frenchman used the word capote as we do today, certainly you must mean "we" as rendezvous buckskinners use the word today, because as one participant in this discussion pointed out -- that's not how the French commonly use the word "capote" today. The popular use for "capote" in France today is synonymous with condom, and a condom that doesn't cover the head is certainly not much of a condom at all. Paul, I'd think that since you have already come pretty close to dominating the market for the most popular kinds of capote, and since you already have the best blankets at the best prices, that you'd want to expand your market niche to capture what might be a new expanding market for alternate traditional manteaus-- frocks, great coats, monkey jackets, anoraks, etc... Buckskinners don't all want to look the same and you might capitalize on the desire for uniqueness by helping provide patterns and fabrics for some of the period-correct alternatives that most people aren't aware of, rather than risk getting bogged down in the capote wars. Paul, I get lots of compliments on the beautiful capote that I made from the pattern and Whitney blanket you sold me, but now that I have one -- I don't need another blanket capote. I really enjoy and use the blanket shirt that I made from that pattern that you sold me, but now I have one I don't need another one. But you know, I don't have one of those Fort Hall monkey jackets and you might sell me the pattern and fabric to sew one of those. In any case, I'm having fun and hope that you are too. Dave T. - -----Original Message----- From: paul mueller <pmueller@infinet.com> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Date: Thursday, March 12, 1998 8:30 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Capote oxymorons >David Tippets wrote: >> >> Dear Detached, >> >> Saying a capote didn't have a hood is roughly the equivalent of saying a >> horse didn't have a tail, because by definition you can't have one without >> the other. >> >> Capote is a French word that by definition means "with a hood." The French >> word first started popping up in fur trade records written by French fur >> traders describing the hooded skin garments worn by Indians of the subarctic >> region of Canada, way back when French was the dominant language of the fur >> trade. >> >> If you look at many of the primary sources of information about trade goods >> for the Rocky Mountains, you'll see references to big overcoats made out of >> wool blankets -- in which the American and British traders didn't use the >> French word "capote" to describe the coats. There were not then, and there >> are not now, capotes without hoods -- but there were then, and can be now, >> big wool blanket overcoats. >> >> Also, let me suggest that a capote, by definition is not necessarily a coat >> make from from a wool blanket. It's the subcultural habits and colloquial >> vocabulary of modern-day buckskinnerss that is creating a misconception that >> capotes are blanket coats. >> >> Capotes can be made from blankets, but don't have to be made from blankets. >> However, if they are a capote they do have to have a hood. The hood could >> be detachable, but when it's detached you don't have a capote. It's much >> like a stallion; by definition the stallion has testicles, and once they are >> detached you no longer have a stallion -- you have a gelding -- not a >> stallion with detachable testicles. >> >> To take this strain of thought a step further, mountain men weren't beaver >> trappers with detachable capotes. You don't by definition have to have a >> copote if you are a mountain man, but you do by definition have to have >> testicles. So if a modern mountain man is inclined to prefer a large >> overcoat with no hood, let him have the courage to defy the modern cultural >> norms of behavior and venture forth to rendezvous capoteless. >> >> Hope this really clears things up. >> >> Dave T. >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Basha Richey <mstar176@wf.net> >> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> >> Cc: Mstar176@wf.net <Mstar176@wf.net> >> Date: Monday, March 09, 1998 4:48 PM >> Subject: MtMan-List: Sack hats >> >> >Longtrail, >> > Nice link for reproduction fabrics. Patchworks, is going on my >> >favorite list. I was particularly intrested in the indigo material. >> > Wes Housler had a nice period piece at the RMNR last year in Montana. >> >It was a cap made from a scrap of wool, essentially a bag with exagerated >> >corners (to resemble ears) with one side cut out for his face. There are >> >many examples in Alfred Jacob Millers artwork of this type of headgear. The >> >one that comes to mind, is the oil painting of the "Trappers Bride". Two >> >of the trappers in the background are wearing "sacks". It seems to me, >> >that if you didn't have a hat, that one of these simple creations would be >> >a good substitute. Miller also shows hunters using them to approach game, >> >on all-fours, as camoflodge. In the AJM painting titled "Trappers and >> >horses around a fire" used as an illustration in Ruxtons "Life In The Far >> >West"(edited by Hafen) is a trapper wearing a "sack" made with a checked or >> >crossed, striped pattern. Since the bags were made out of anything that >> >was available (my opinion) then a piece if the woven Indigo from patchworks >> >might be a nice piece of material for a reproduction of that trappers "Sky >> >Piece". >> > I believe Paul Mueller said in a recent link, that hoods were not >> >attached to capotes, rather were buttoned or tied on. Am I wrong about the >> >"sacks" or were they hoods for Capotes? Miller's paintings have few, if >> >any capotes, but it was summertime. If anybody would like to shed light on >> >the origins of the "sacks", I would be glad to hear it. >> > >> >John Richey >> >"Yellow Stone" >> > >> > > a little piece about capotes or capots by francis back titled > THE CANADIAN CAPOT (CAPOTE) > In 1803 a french traveller provided an apologetic but accurate >descrition of the blanket capot "all the inhabitants... and their slaves >have capots for winter time. this capote is made of a single blanket and >is loose enough to look like our greatcoat: their is no seem on the >back;they have simply cut on the blankets length enough cloth to make >the sleeves, the collar or the hood: around the skirt is a blue >stripe,and at the extremity of the sleeves is another blue stripe placed >there to look like a cuff.The negroes instead of having a collar have a >hood as those of our charteux or trappist monks... the masters capots >differ because they are a little bit fuller ,made of a finer cloth and >without hoods. this came from a french man in 1803 a capot without a >hood but a collar. they used the word wrong then as we do today. > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 22:10:58 -0800 From: Dave Parks <kc7cnw@magick.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Re: URL'S I would like to say how very much I'm enjoying the very informative recent posts on the origens of the "Capote", it's great! I would also like to suggest something that may save others time in their research via these postings. When someone suggests others to look at a web-page or that certain information can be found in a book or other reference material, please include in your post...the URL, address or sources for these references. I often find about 10% of the posts are from people asking how they can get hold of the posted info sources, ie: URL's, etc. If this info was given in the original posts it would be very helpful. ie: http://www.tentsmiths.com Regards, _M_ Manywounds W ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 01:14:57 -0600 From: John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Capote oxymorons <html> At the risk of extending this discussion. <dl> <dd>Random House Unabridged Dictionary seems to indicate a capote can still be, nearly anything anyone wants it to be. <dd>A bullfighters cape,=A0 a bonnet, a strange little fellow, a "pretty little surrey with fringe on the top."=A0 It can even be a hooded cloak. <dd>begin dictionary quote ...=20 <dd>ca=B7pote (k=C3 p=8Et=C6; Fr. kA p=F4t=C6<font= face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">), n., pl.= -potes (-p<font= face=3D"Random House Extended" size=3D3 color=3D"#000000">=8E<font= face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">ts=C6; Fr.= -p=F4t=C6<font= face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">). <dd>1. a long cloak with a hood.=20 <dd>2. a close-fitting, caplike bonnet worn by women and children in the= mid-Victorian period.=20 <dd>3. a bullfighter's cape; capa.=20 <dd>4. an adjustable top or hood of a vehicle, as a buggy.Also,= capot.=20 <dd>[1790=961800, Amer.; < F, equiv. to cape (< Sp= capa CAPE1) + -ote,= fem. of -ot dim. suffix] <dd>Ca=B7po=B7te (k<font= face=3D"Random House Extended" size=3D3 color=3D"#000000">=C3<font= face=3D"Times New Roman, Times"> p=8E=C6t<font= face=3D"Random House Extended">=81), n.<font= size=3D2 color=3D"#000000"> <dd>Truman, 1924=9684, U.S. novelist, short-story writer, and= playwright.=20 </dl>End dictionary quote ... Regarding pronounciations mentioned in an earlier= posting consider from above:=A0 -=A0 k=C3= p=8Et=C6=A0 -=A0= k=C3 p=8E=C6<f= ont face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">t=81 <div align=3D"center"> WARNING: </div> The following questions will only be answerable by those of wry humor and= sufficient majority. Now just where did the penchant for pronounciation of the "e" come= from?=A0 And what does this say about those who use it? John... <dl> <dd>I have included "styled" text and obscure dictionary symbols= in this posting; as a test.=A0 If something strange comes through please= forward to me on the side.=A0 Of course if it all comes through blank you= won't be able to read this part. </dl> <div>John T. Kramer, maker of: Kramer's Best Antique Improver</div> <div>>>>It makes wood wonderful<<< - >>>As good as old!<<<</div> <div><a href=3D"http://www.kramerize.com/"= EUDORA=3DAUTOURL>http://www.kramerize.com/</a></div> mail to: john<kramer@kramerize.com> </html> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 08:28:06 -0600 From: Jim Lindberg <jal@cray.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Camp Gear, Tents & Cookware A good page on making treking gear is at: http://www.pconline.com/~sctrader/page1.htm Jim ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 10:50:37 -0700 From: cwebbbpdr@juno.com (Charlie P. Webb) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Camp Gear, Tents & Cookware Mr. Miller, Read your post with much interest, but do have a question. My 10x10 fly with my other gear makes for a rather heavy pack, at barely sixty years young and in nowhere the physical condition I used to be, I find all sorts of excuses to leave the 10x10 at home due to it's weight. Murphys law applies here if I take it I don't need it, but leave it at home......... well you know the rest of the story. I am not sure what kind of canvas my old fly is made of, but it is very functional except for the weight. Could I impose on you to say a few words about the kind of canvas or material you are using and it's approximate weight? Any one who wishes to comment please do so. I have tried many lighter weight fabrics over the past 40 years but for one reason or another this old chunk of canvas seems to work best except for the extra burden of getting it into the woods. Thank for your thoughts you in advance!!! C Webb CC CO. >The 10x10 fly gives me enough room for me and my gear, and cook under >if it >is bad weather. I have a way of folding it so it is nice and snug if >it is >REALLY raining. We don't have snow here in South Florida... > >Addison Miller > > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 15:13:46 EST From: ThisOldFox <ThisOldFox@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Camp Gear, Tents & Cookware Charlie Webb writes: > Could I impose on you to say a few words about > the kind of canvas or material you are using and it's > approximate weight? Any one who wishes to comment please > do so. I have tried many lighter weight fabrics over the past 40 > years but for one reason or another this old chunk of canvas > seems to work best except for the extra burden of getting it > into the woods. Many back east are starting to carry tarps made of oilcloth. They are very light, period correct, and can serve several other purposes. I believe that Panther Primitives are selling this product, if memory serves me right. Dave Kanger ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 17:45:17 -0500 From: "Mike Haught" <mwhaught@netwalk.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Camp Gear, Tents & Cookware Mark Baker's "Longhunter Series covers how to make an oilcloth. I think it is Tape #1. -mwh "Possum, the other white meat!" - -----Original Message----- From: ThisOldFox <ThisOldFox@aol.com> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Date: Monday, March 16, 1998 4:57 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Camp Gear, Tents & Cookware >Charlie Webb writes: > >> Could I impose on you to say a few words about >> the kind of canvas or material you are using and it's >> approximate weight? Any one who wishes to comment please >> do so. I have tried many lighter weight fabrics over the past 40 >> years but for one reason or another this old chunk of canvas >> seems to work best except for the extra burden of getting it >> into the woods. > >Many back east are starting to carry tarps made of oilcloth. They are very >light, period correct, and can serve several other purposes. I believe that >Panther Primitives are selling this product, if memory serves me right. > >Dave Kanger > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 15:10:56 -0700 From: "David Tippets" <wolverine76@email.msn.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: deer hides Mule deer population in Utah are at the lowest level they've been in the last half of this Century -- maybe even the lowest of the Century. The biologists whom I've discussed it with don't expect the populations to ever recover to level that they were at in 1960s-1970s, and tell me that most other western States mule deer populations have also declined.. I can't help you with info about deer farms. It sounds like to me, that if the law of supply and demand holds true for buckskin, prices are going to be going up in the West. Maybe whitetail deer will fill the niche in some places, but they sure won't here Suburbanville. - -----Original Message----- From: Longtrail <ezra@midrivers.com> To: hist_text@xmission.com <hist_text@xmission.com> Date: Sunday, March 15, 1998 9:37 PM Subject: MtMan-List: deer hides >I am running short of hides, please advise if you know of any deer >farms. Also would be interested in setting something up with >individuals for the next hunting season. Thanks Longtrail > > ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #38 ****************************** - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. 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