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hist_text-digest      Tuesday, February 24 1998      Volume 01 : Number 028




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 23:49:10 -0700
From: "David Tippets" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Earlier Pyramid tent documentation -- but, so what?

As per pyramid tents -- check out Tentsmiths current web site and their new
addition of a line of traditional cold-weather tents made of Egyptian
cotton.

And here's your bonus gift, Tentsmiths has documented an individual trying
to sell the pyramid tent design to the British Army's Quartermaster -- prior
to the American Revolution.  It was sized to hold four soldiers utilizing
their four bayonets as corner stakes and one musket as an inside tent pole.
Not much headroom, but efficient use of resources.  The Quartermaster didn't
buy if for King George's crack red-coated soldiers, but at least we know the
design was being promoted well before the beginning of the rendezvous period
of the fur trade.

The Quartermaster, however, did buy the bell tent for use by officers -- and
the bell was a standard in the war against Napoleon circa 1810.

The bell tent will do everything the pyramid tent will do, and do it better
than the pyramid.  The bell is documented in the Northern Rockies as early
as 1808, and even earlier on the Northern Plains.

So why don't we see bell tents at mountain-men gatherings --  or on the
western range where shepherds watch their flocks by night?  Let me speculate
that the bell design requires a much higher labor cost to sew, and most
people who buy them don't actually live in them nowadays.   The people who
buy most of them pay cowboys and sheep herders to live in them.  Sleeping in
a tent at an occasional rendezvous is a long way away from from living in
one with no other refuge to retreat to for months at a time.

If I seem just a little negative about the pyramid, it's because I have
lived in a couple, and found them the tent most needing to have a drainage
ditch dug around them if you want to stay dry in a heavy rain.  Rain just
isn't much of problem where pyramid tents remain popular on the western
range.  And the irony is, that where rain isn't much of a problem, men often
don't even bother to put the pyramid tents up at night.

A friend of mine mapped all of the vegetation communities in the Absaroka
Range north of Yellowstone Park.  The first summer that he was engaged in
the work he top packed a pyramid tent on his pack horse.  The second summer
he left the tent home and just pulled a mante over him whenever it rained at
night.  At the end of the second summer he reported that he slept just as
dry at night the year he left the pyramid tent at home as he did the year he
packed it, but he saved lots of time and work not packing the tent around
and putting it up at night.

Let's argue for the bell tent, and leave the pyramid to Nevada buckaroos and
sheepherders.


- -----Original Message-----
From: Lanney Ratcliff <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Monday, February 16, 1998 6:58 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Tipi/Pyramid tent documentation


>I did not "defend the authenticity" of the prymid tent per se.  I provided
>a first person account of its use in the spring of 1846 by tourist Francis
>Parkman during his vacation to the mountains and said that was good enough
>for me.  You are right, the design is so basic that it may have been used
>by cavemen.  I do own two prymids and a wall tent, but I camp most often
>under a square sheet of canvas.
>Lanney Ratcliff
>
>----------
>>
>> Dear Zaz, et al,
>>
>> I don't care to argue the authenticity of the pyramid tent, basically
>> because it is so simple and so common sense that it had to have been at
>> least improvised on many occasions; probably for centuries, even if it
>> wasn't manufactured in quantity until the gold rush and western
emigration
>> period.
>>
>> Darby's tent sketchbook, however, includes so much misinformation(pages
>> 11-12 "grey areas") that it is hard to recommend it as a source of
>> documentation.
>>
>> The problem with Miller's illustration often used as documentation is
that
>> it shows nothing more than a two-dimensional silhouette in the
background.
>> As such, it could just as reasonable be used to document the use of any
of
>> the conical varieties of tents documented in use elsewhere, such as, the
>> British bell tent or the Sibley tent.  Certainly the Scottish Lord paying
>> Miller's salary was no stranger to the British bell tent, as it was the
>> common officer's tent used by King's army when said Lord was previously
>> engaged in an earlier adventure as an army officer.
>>
>> So, while we don't have any additional evidence to support the Miller
>> painting/pyramid theory, besides the pointy silhouette, we can be
>relatively
>> confident that the camp's most affluent camper had earlier in his life
>> weathered numerous storms in a British bell tent.  It's not too big a
jump
>> to reason that  Lord William Drummond Stewart took to the West what had
>> worked for him while he battled Napolean's forces at Waterloo.
>>
>> There is also documentation that the Hudson Bay Company imported British
>> bell tents, and that at least some of  the bell tents used by David
>Thompson
>> found their way to the Rocky Mountains.
>>
>> You may have noticed that most of the people defending the authenticity
of
>> the pyramid tent are the same people who already own a pyramid tent.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: zaslow <[e-mail]>
>> To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
>> Date: Saturday, February 14, 1998 3:35 AM
>> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Tipi
>>
>>
>> >There is some slight bit of documentation on the Pyramid tent that I am
>> >aware of.  The 1st is in "The Sketchbook on the Tents of the Fur Trade"
>by
>> >Samuel L. Darby on page 8.  Although this not a 1st hand source, he
>> mentions
>> >other sources which are.  The other I am readily aware of is a painting
>by
>> >Alfred Jacob Miller titled, "Our Camp."  It is plate 37 in the book,
>> "Alfred
>> >Jacob Miller, Artist on the Oregon Trail."  In the background is a tent
>> that
>> >looks like it might be a Pyramid.
>> >
>> >Best Regards,
>> >
>> >Jerry (Meriwether) Zaslow #1488
>> >
>> >At 10:32 PM 2/11/98 -0500, you wrote:
>> >>maybe you can do all this with a pryamid type type tent,but i do not
>know
>> >>of any documentation that this is period correct.i do not thinkthey are
>&
>> >>besides i think they look like crap ( only my opinion) my family has
>been
>> >>doing the rendezvouing for the past 15 years & as of this day no one
has
>> >>been able to document these lodges to my knoledge.
>> >>
>> >>this is the first time i have responded to anything on this site & if i
>> >>step on any toes shoot me at a vou.we have had several different types
>of
>> >>lodges from a 10x10 lean to to now a 15x21 marque which is now just my
>> wife
>> >>& i.
>> >>
>> >>if ya ever get to the eastern locate a brother of ivory mountain & ask
>> >>where shootshimself is camped & then come look me up,& i might offer ya
>a
>> >>cold 1.
>> >>
>> >>                          shootshimself
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 22:06:36 -0700
From: "David Tippets" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Gartering & crooked knives

Like Rick Williams, I started learning the crooked knife concept with a hoof
knife.  The local saddle shop here got a bunch of cheap Pakistani farrier
knife they sold of $1.99 each.  They had big hardwood handles pinned on with
brass pins.  I bought a few to play with and try to convert to crooked
knives.

This is what I believe that I discovered.  The differences in blade
curvature is not too significant, and in fact can be specialized for special
purposes just like any othe woodworking tool.  What's really different about
the crooked knife is that the handles were usually individually shaped to
the individual to the the hand, rather than the knife the leverage
advantage.

A farrier only uses his knife for about a minute on each hoof before he
changes to another tool, so the handle shape isn't a big factor.  On the
other hand, a mountain man making a canoe paddle or a toboggen might use the
crooked knife for hours on end so the hand and wrist stress can become
significant, hence, the effort in perfecting the handle's angle and grip
shape is rewarded.

Experimenting with a cheap hoof knife is a good way to discover if the knife
has advantages that a person likes for wood working.

Would that we had more wood and hooves to pare down to shape, and more time
to do it!

Dave
- -----Original Message-----
From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Friday, February 20, 1998 10:45 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Gartering & crooked knives


>At 09:52 AM 2/20/98 , Rick Williams wrote:
>
>>I've got a hoof knife that I have used as a crooked knife for carving
>>and it works very well.  I do NOT know however. how differently the
>>two would be shaped.
>>
>A hoof knife makes a good crooked knife, better for smaller items like
>noggins, ladles, spoons and such with it's tight end curl.
>
>Most commercial crooked knife blades have a much more gradual and extended
>curve to the tip.  Some are called canoe knife.  the broader sweep is
>better for larger relief cuts like on trenchers and canoe ribs.  Canoe
>knives generally have a longer section of straight blade than most other
>crook knives.  These were also called a man's knife.  A Swedish carver's
>hook knife is another form of crooked knife.  These are currently cataloged
>by several suppliers.
>
>In viewing several hundred old crook knives over the years I can state with
>certainty there is no one standard for blade curve, shape or size.  They
>are made in left and right hand versions, having both is less useful than
>you'd think.
>
>Some woodcarving tool suppliers have offered crook knife blade blanks over
>the years.  Some of the better blacksmiths make fine blades.  Woodcraft
>Supply used to offer one from Sheffield, I haven't seen it in the catalog
>in years -- but, I haven't recently looked closely.
>
>Good blades can be fashioned from old pitch fork tines, industrial hacksaw
>blade, or I've had good luck reworking sole knife blades purchased at
>Leather Finding Suppliers, and old butcher knives of good steel but no
>particular value.
>
>Handles are a personal expression of the maker/user many old ones I've seen
>are exquisitely and fancifully carved.  Some are very plain.  Traditionally
>you make your own handle.
>
>John...
>
>John T. Kramer, maker of:  Kramer's Best Antique Improver
>>>>It makes wood wonderful<<<  -  >>>As good as old!<<<
>http://www.kramerize.com/
>mail to: john<[e-mail]>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 01:58:49 -1000
From: Blue Rider <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Cow Horn

James Harvey wrote:

> Hello out there!
>
>         Does anyone know where a person could procure some raw cow
> horns that would be
> of engravable quality and large enough to use as a powder horn?
>
>                 Thankyou,
>                         James Harvey

   Try Dixie Gun Works in Union City, TN.  Send 'em $5 for their huge
catalog.  It's worth every penny.  They have the cow horns pretty cheap.

Blue

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 98 07:27:00 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Cow Horn

If you won't be attending a Rendezvous in the near future, one source is Tandy
Leather.  Check your local phone book.  They usually have both raw and scraped
horns.  Tandy can be a bit pricey but fine in a pinch.

- - Bruce McNeal

- -----Original Message-----
From:     <[e-mail]> at ##Internet
Sent:     Monday, February 23, 1998 8:57 PM
To:     [e-mail] at ##Internet
Subject:     MtMan-List: Cow Horn

Hello out there!

        Does anyone know where a person could procure some raw cow horns that
would be
of engravable quality and large enough to use as a powder horn?


                Thankyou,
                        James Harvey

 << File: RFC822.TXT >>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 05:36:41 -0700
From: "David Tippets" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Jappaning

Thanks for the insight on Jappaning -- how's about some more?

A couple of years ago I discovered that the Fort Union Interpretive
Association has documented and is now offering for sale a small
personal-size cooking pot that is Jappaned tin.  More recently, I 've
discovered documentation of Jappaned tin eyeglass cases.

The Fort Union reproduction pot was priced at $80.00, last that I checked.

According to your understanding of Jappaning:

 Could anyone today buy the appropriate shellac and paint it on tin to
achieve results equal to the Jappaned tin containers?

Is protecting from rust the mail reason people used to Jappan tin?

Is the Jappaned tin food safe if Jappaned on the inside of the container?

Thanks for any additional information you have about Jappaning!

Dave


- -----Original Message-----
From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Monday, February 23, 1998 11:41 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canvas Canoe



>. . .   Japaning, in this country, was most commonly done
>with asphaltum varnish.
>
>Tole work on tin was sometimes done with milk paint, more often with
>enamel, and some call this japaning.  What was called japaning in the
>1200's referenced work done in Japan.  A lacquering technique never widely
>used in this country.  Black pigmented true lacquer from the rhus
>venicifera; was the first japaning.
>
>Terminology has been loosely applied in this country and old names
>appropriated for "new and improved" materials.  During the early nineteenth
>century the terms shellac, lacquer, varnish, were interchangeable and could
>refer to any of several classes of materials.  It depended on what was the
>local usage.  Lacquer is now a modified nitro-cellulose based product,
>rapidly being replaced with new wonder water formulae; all called lacquer.
>
>Japaning can be generally thought of as a blackening of the surface.  Some
>techniques of woodwork may call ebonizing - japaning.  If painted with any
>black surface material it could be called japaning.
>
>>

>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 09:27:33 -0500
From: "Scott Allen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canvas Canoe/Latex Paint

To all who wanted references on latex paint:

The Concise Columbia Encyclopedia and The Peoples Chronology were
two. They can be had from Windows 95 Bookshelf.

There is one other, but I'll have to get back to you on that one.


Your most humble servant,
Scott Allen
Hunter and Scout for Fort Frederick
Fairplay, MD
http://members.tripod.com/~SCOTT

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 08:43:18 -0800
From: Dennis Fisher <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: The perils of lists

I think Dean can appreciate this more than anyone but thought the rest
of you may get a kick out of it.

Q:  How many list subscribers does it take to change a light bulb?

 A:  1,331:

      1 to change the light bulb and to post to the mail list that the
light bulb has been changed.
     14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how the
light bulb could have been changed differently.
      7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs.
     27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about changing
light bulbs.
     53 to flame the spell checkers
    156 to write to the list administrator complaining about the light
bulb discussion and its inappropriateness to this mail list.
     41 to correct spelling in the spelling/grammar flames.
    109 to post that this list is not about light bulbs and to please
take this email exchange to alt.light.bulb
    203 to demand that cross posting to alt.grammar, alt.spelling and
alt.punctuation about changing light bulbs be stopped.
    111 to defend the posting to this list saying that we all use
lightbulbs and therefore the posts **are** relevant to this mail list.
    306 to debate which method of changing light bulbs is superior,
where
to buy the best light bulbs, what brand of light bulbs work best for
this
technique, and what brands are faulty.
     27 to post URLs where one can see examples of different light bulbs
     14 to post that the URLs were posted incorrectly, and to post
corrected URLs.
      3 to post about links they found from the URLs that are relevant
to
this list which makes light bulbs relevant to this list.
     33 to concatenate all posts to date, then quote them including all
headers and footers, and then add "Me Too."
     12 to post to the list that they are unsubscribing because they
cannot
handle the light bulb controversey.
     19 to quote the "Me Too's" to say, "Me Three."
      4 to suggest that posters request the light bulb FAQ.
      1 to propose new alt.change.light.bulb newsgroup.
     47 to say this is just what alt.physic.cold_fusion was meant for,
leave it here.
    143 votes for alt.lite.bulb.

                  Dennis

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 09:57:09 -0600 (CST)
From: [e-mail] (Henry B. Crawford)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Cow Horn

>Hello out there!
>
>        Does anyone know where a person could procure some raw cow horns that
>would be
>of engravable quality and large enough to use as a powder horn?
>
>
>                Thankyou,
>                        James Harvey


Tandy Leather sells them, unless you are just looking for free ones.

HBC

*****************************************
Henry B. Crawford        Curator of History
[e-mail]     Museum of Texas Tech University
806/742-2442           Box 43191
FAX [phone]             Lubbock, TX  79409-3191
               WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
*************    So Long, Harry    **************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 11:11:15 -0500
From: "Scott Allen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Living Documentation

David wrote:

I'm not really into competition either, but think to add an element of
realism to the exercise both fatigue and time stress would be realistic
factors to add to the mix.

For example, this weekend we had our monthly AMM outing for the Northern
Utah and Southern Idaho area.  Friday night I left the road after dark on a
moonless night snowshoeing on about 10-12 feet of snow and was the first one
there.  Needless to say, Friday night's camp was a tad chilly.  Saturday, I
spent most of the day moving up onto a south facing slope and setting up a
good shelter and gathering lots of firewood.  Saturday night I had a warm
comfortable camp.  But which camp was most realistic for a one-night camp?
The warm camp would have been impossible had it been just one of many nights
on long trail between friends with a warm lodges and fat pups.


Dave,

I couldn't agree more. I've spent many a night where I just rolled
up in my blanket on the softest rock I could find. These type camps
would have to be closer to the norm than a big cushy one while they
were on the move. I love to go to rondys, but to get the real feel of
what it was like, give me a scout with all I need on my back or
waiting for me to put together out there on the ground.


Your most humble servant,
Scott Allen
Hunter and Scout for Fort Frederick
Fairplay, MD
http://members.tripod.com/~SCOTT

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 11:34:29 -0500
From: Ron Valley <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Canvas Canoe

WHOA there just a minute...  Scott A. writes  "I've found references to
latex paint back to 1741. Find one in a colonial color and you should be
fine."  You all can do whatever you want, and I'm sure that there are
some who can "justify" to themselves almost anything they take a fancy
to.... but before I put anything even remotely similar to today's
"latex" paint on anything that I call "period" (and oh by the way, want
to continue to call period), I have this driving need to know a hell of
a lot more about those "references" Scott has mentioned !!!!!

1.) What are these "references"
2.) Where can they be found
3.) If the term "latex" did exist in 1741, does it have the same meaning
today as it did then?????
4.) Was latex used in the Rocky Mountains prior to 1840 or known only to
Boston or London or      perhaps some rubber tree & white wash producing
country???

Scott.... anyone??


Ron Valley, 1353
White Mountain Party




    ----------
    From:     David Tippets[SMTP:[e-mail]]
    Sent:     Monday, February 23, 1998 10:37 PM
    To:     hist_text
    Subject:     Re: MtMan-List: Canvas Canoe

    Scott, et al

    What a surprise that latex paint was used that long ago.  I've
been trying
    ot learn more about the old-fashioned milk paint that was
commonly used to
    waterproof canvas.  The powder is still sold to make your own
milk paint,
    but I have two questions about it's properties when painted on
canvas.

    First, does milk paint waterproof canvas as well as latex paint
does?

    Two, does it increase the flamability of canvas as does latex
paint?

    Any milk painters out there who have done some field testing?

    Thanks!
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Scott Allen <[e-mail]>
    To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
    Date: Monday, February 23, 1998 1:49 PM
    Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canvas Canoe


    >I've found references to latex paint back to 1741. Find one in
a
    >colonial color and you should be fine.
    >
    >
    >Your most humble servant,
    >Scott Allen
    >Hunter and Scout for Fort Frederick
    >Fairplay, MD
    >http://members.tripod.com/~SCOTT
    >
    >

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 10:13:43 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Angela Gottfred)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Burnt tipis

 Linda Holley <"[e-mail]"@Jacksonville.net> wrote :
>It is very possible to burn down a tipi whether is made of canvas or
>buffalo hide.  There is so much residue from smoky fires and the drying
>out of the leather that you can burn it down.

Thanks, Linda, for the lesson--those first two quotes that I posted about
the burning Indian tents are now off my list of possible evidence of canvas
tipis.

Your humble & obedient servant,
Angela Gottfred

[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 10:13:55 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Angela Gottfred)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Clothes

"David Tippets" <[e-mail]> wrote:

>Thompson's journals also document, however, periodically wearing their
>cloths into rags and having to make new clothes out of whatever was
>available, including tent floors.

This is the first I've heard about tents having floors. Otherwise, I quite
agree. In the late 1790's,  the HBC's Peter Fidler (Thompson's fellow
student),was wintering in the Athabasca and wore his clothes to shreds. He
replaced his pants with leather pants made out of part of his Chipewyan
host's tent, and later got a "toggy" of caribou skins dressed with the hair
on, to be his winter clothing. (Don't ask me what a toggy is--I have an
idea, but I'd love to have some real information.)

Your humble & obedient servant,
Angela Gottfred
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 13:24:20 -0800
From: James Harvey <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Cow Horn

Dixie Gun Works does not have engraving (not schrimsaw, Schrimshaw is on
ivoy not horn) quality horns!!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 15:19:35 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re:  Re: MtMan-List: Canvas Canoe

Hello the list,
There is a good book out, "The Wood & Canvas Canoe" by Jerry Stelmok and
Rollin Thurlow, that covers  building both canvas and birch bark canoes. It
still amazes me that in the Northeast there is, or was, birch trees large
enough to make a 15' canoe out of one piece of bark! I always thought it was a
patch work deal...
Henri Vaillancourt, of Greenville, New Hampshire makes birch bark canoes that
would bring tears to a mountain mans eyes.....

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 15:23:39 -0500
From: "Scott Allen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Canvas Canoe

Well Ron,

First of all, anyone who is has been on this list any length of time
knows I don't just spout B.S. I rarely speak up and don't at all if I
can only speculate or don't know for sure about the subject matter. I
do things right and research everything before using it. If I can't
document it, I don't use it!

Latex was discovered early in the 18th century and incorporated into
paint in 1741 (ref: The Peoples Chronology). It was also used on
ships to waterproof  "sheeting". I assume this was without paint
because it does not mention any pigment. The hard vulcanized rubber
wasn't developed until 1839, by Charles Goodyear. I've already cited
other references and will provide more as soon as I can find them
again.


Your most humble servant,
Scott Allen
Hunter and Scout for Fort Frederick
Fairplay, MD
http://members.tripod.com/~SCOTT

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 14:36:54 -0700
From: "David Tippets" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Clothes

Angela,

What!  Never heard of tent floors, and I thought you had Thompson's journals
memorized.

Not only did they have a tent floor, the floor was heavy stiff leather -- so
stiff they broke their sewing needles on it before they surrendered to
punching holes with an awl.  Once they got those pants on, they must of
walked like the tin man with diaper rash.  You better go back to your
Thompson, you missed one of the good parts.

Dave

P.S. Still waiting to hear back from Oxford for confirmation on your XY
theory of historical explanation.


- -----Original Message-----
From: Angela Gottfred <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Tuesday, February 24, 1998 1:01 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Clothes


>"David Tippets" <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
>>Thompson's journals also document, however, periodically wearing their
>>cloths into rags and having to make new clothes out of whatever was
>>available, including tent floors.
>
>This is the first I've heard about tents having floors. Otherwise, I quite
>agree. In the late 1790's,  the HBC's Peter Fidler (Thompson's fellow
>student),was wintering in the Athabasca and wore his clothes to shreds. He
>replaced his pants with leather pants made out of part of his Chipewyan
>host's tent, and later got a "toggy" of caribou skins dressed with the hair
>on, to be his winter clothing. (Don't ask me what a toggy is--I have an
>idea, but I'd love to have some real information.)
>
>Your humble & obedient servant,
>Angela Gottfred
>[e-mail]
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 17:16:12 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Jappaning

To the list- I thought I'd throw this food for thought into the fire...I have
also heard that Jappaning is a term used for the process of piercing tin,
brass or copper, commonly seen on lanterns. I was told thats its purpose was
to allow light to be cast through the holes of the lantern body with the door
closed, prolonging the burning time of the candle. It sounds a far piece from
lacquering, enameling or coating of the metal, so I'd sure like to know.
Thanks.  PJ

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 16:03:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Lee Newbill <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Hats... again

A while back, Charles Chalk was looking for a decent hat.  Now I find
meself in the same boat, er... packtrain.  I'm a searching for a low crown
(3 1/2 - 4"), 10x beaver, wide brim, etc.  I never heard whether or not
Charles found one?

I know a couple of folks did not reccomend Clearwater Hats, and one person
said JW Hats was a good place to look.  I did call JW Hats, and was quoted
a price (custom made) at $330.00 (Ack!)  Dixie carries a low quality one,
Jas Townsend carries about the same (wool felt), etc, etc....

Question is, has anyone located a source for non-custom, quality hats?

And yes, I did check the email archives.... no help did I find there,
might of missed something though.

Regards

Lee Newbill
Viola, Idaho
email at [e-mail]
Keeper of the "Buckskins & Blackpowder" Webpage
http://www.uidaho.edu/~lnewbill/bp.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 17:49:15 +0000
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Jerry's message on one horse travel

David -
As I said in the original message, " Traveling on just a saddle horse
is really good.There is no better lesson on how to whittle gear down
to bare essentials."  I did it for years. Mainly because I couldn't
afford a string and the associated equipment, pack saddles, bigger
trucks, and bigger trailers.  Also, there was a lack of skills
necessary to keep all of the equipment on a critter.  New Mexico is
littered with "Two Squaws" artifacts. If a person really wants to
experience life as a mountain man traveling in the wilderness, then it
is absolutely necessary to travel the long ride with the long string.
A person cannot possibly fathom the amount work that is involved in
taking care of that many critters until you do it.  You also have to
have the mind set that you are heading out and may be gone till you
get back.  We always have the luxury of saying...I am going for 6 days
(or whatever) I will have  fresh meat the first couple of night then
beans or rice or, or, or.  I don't believe the hivernats had menus.
Course they shot what they wanted. If you have done some horse travel
with just a saddle horse, then think about multiplying X4 or 5 the
following; catching up, brushing out, saddleing up, packing up,
diamond down, riding for hours and paying attention to what 4 or 5 are
doing(instead of one) finding a camp site, unpacking, unsaddleing,
brushing out, getting the hayburners on pickets (or however you
choose, hobbles etc.).  When all of that is done then you try to get
yourself fed and get some sleep while the nervous son of a guns stomp
and paw all night. I tell you, there is nothing more fun!  I wouldn't
trade it for the world. After 4 or 5 days of this, your just dog
tired.  You find that you start later in the morning, quite earlier in
the afternoon and start laying over a day or two because, "the
fleabags need a rest". What was everyday matter a fact for our
forefathers is just flat hard work for us.  Most of us weren't raised
doing it.  So it is a real chore.  A real enjoyable chore for those
that like emulating the old boys. That's my opion on the better
teacher.
Mike Katona
Technology/Video Teacher
Pine Eagle HS
Halfway, Oregon

remove the nospam to reply

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:28:33 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: trapping

could use a little input been trapping in the same lake the last few years
tring to get rid of the beavers.can not get the remaining few.I am using
conibear any 4 long spring.trapped in creeks ten year are so and always do
good with rat coon beaver and mink.anyone got any great sets youb are willing
to let me in on.
                                      rick

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:46:43 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Michael Pierce)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Cow Horn

dixie gun works gets their quality horn kits from Karl Wilburn so why pay
dixie a premium.  you can find his address in muzzle blast or drop me a
note offline and i will provide a method to making contact with him.  he
has the best quality horns available and can supply in any color tip.
they can be carved and he will predrill and fit the plugs for you.

      "Hawk"
Michael Pierce
854 Glenfield Dr.
Palm Harbor, florida   34684
1-[phone]

On Mon, 23 Feb 1998 21:10:57 -0800 "JON P TOWNS" <[e-mail]>
writes:
>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
>------=_NextPart_000_01BD409F.88F24B40
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>DIXIE GUN WORKS
>
>----------
>: From: James Harvey <[e-mail]>
>: To: [e-mail]
>: Subject: MtMan-List: Cow Horn
>: Date: Monday, February 23, 1998 8:57 PM
>:
>: Hello out there!
>:
>:     Does anyone know where a person could procure some raw cow
>horns that
>would be
>: of engravable quality and large enough to use as a powder horn?
>:
>:
>:         Thankyou,
>:             James Harvey
>------=_NextPart_000_01BD409F.88F24B40
>Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
><html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><p><font size=3D2 =
>color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Arial">DIXIE GUN
>WORKS<br><br>----------<br>: =
>From: James Harvey <<font =
>color=3D"#0000FF"><u>[e-mail]</u><font =
>color=3D"#000000">><br>: To: <font =
>color=3D"#0000FF"><u>[e-mail]</u><font =
>color=3D"#000000"><br>: Subject: MtMan-List: Cow Horn<br>: Date:
>Monday, =
>February 23, 1998 8:57 PM<br>: <br>: Hello out there!<br>: <br>: =
>	Does anyone know where a person could procure some raw cow horns
>=
>that would be <br>: of engravable quality and large enough to use as a
>=
>powder horn?<br>: <br>: <br>: 		Thankyou,<br>: =
>			James Harvey</p>
></font></font></font></font></font></body></html>
>------=_NextPart_000_01BD409F.88F24B40--
>
>

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------------------------------

Date: 24 Feb 98 20:32:48 +0000
From: Phyllis and Don Keas <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Jappaning.

Japaning wasn't just painting.  They put on the asphalt/varnish and then
baked it on at 350 degrees.  Don Keas


David Tippets wrote:
>
>
>Thanks for the insight on Jappaning -- how's about some more?
>
>A couple of years ago I discovered that the Fort Union Interpretive
>Association has documented and is now offering for sale a small
>personal-size cooking pot that is Jappaned tin.  More recently, I 've
>discovered documentation of Jappaned tin eyeglass cases.
>
>The Fort Union reproduction pot was priced at $80.00, last that I
checked.
>
>According to your understanding of Jappaning:
>
> Could anyone today buy the appropriate shellac and paint it on tin to
>achieve results equal to the Jappaned tin containers?
>
>Is protecting from rust the mail reason people used to Jappan tin?
>
>Is the Jappaned tin food safe if Jappaned on the inside of the
container?
>
>Thanks for any additional information you have about Jappaning!
>
>Dave
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
>To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
>Date: Monday, February 23, 1998 11:41 PM
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canvas Canoe
>
>
>
>>. . .   Japaning, in this country, was most commonly done
>>with asphaltum varnish.
>>
>>Tole work on tin was sometimes done with milk paint, more often with
>>enamel, and some call this japaning.  What was called japaning in the
>>1200's referenced work done in Japan.  A lacquering technique never
widely
>>used in this country.  Black pigmented true lacquer from the rhus
>>venicifera; was the first japaning.
>>
>>Terminology has been loosely applied in this country and old names
>>appropriated for "new and improved" materials.  During the early
nineteenth
>>century the terms shellac, lacquer, varnish, were interchangeable and
could
>>refer to any of several classes of materials.  It depended on what was
the
>>local usage.  Lacquer is now a modified nitro-cellulose based product,
>>rapidly being replaced with new wonder water formulae; all called
lacquer.
>>
>>Japaning can be generally thought of as a blackening of the surface.
Some
>>techniques of woodwork may call ebonizing - japaning.  If painted with
any
>>black surface material it could be called japaning.
>>
>>>
>
>>
>
>
>
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