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hist_text-digest       Monday, February 16 1998       Volume 01 : Number 021




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 13:33:37 -0800
From: "The Windhams" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Rendezous

For those of you in the california terriory, and surroundng areas, we would
like to post your events , so all can look at them  and pick the ones they
can attend send to [e-mail] or
http://www.ptw.com/~lattanze/home/blackhawk.html
Rick

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 19:15:31 -0800
From: James Harvey <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: American Fur Co.

To the list:

    I recently purcahsed a home in St. Charles, MI.  On the house is
a sign that states it is a local historical site.  It was surveyed in
March of 1853 and was sold to the American Fur Co. in 1859.  Is the
American Fur Co. a fur trade company or some other sort of business.  I
do realize "The Fur Trade Era" lasted to about 1840.  Also, what type of
fur trade era personas or characters would be appropriate to the Michigan
area?  What books or other resources would you reccomend to read about
the Michigan area fur trade?  If you couldn't tell I am fairly new to the
buckskinnin' game but have monitored this list for a while and finally
have some questions.

        Thanks to all for any help in advance,

        Jim Harvey <[e-mail]>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 17:56:59 -0800
From: Omanson & Hollinger <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Kentucky frontiersmen: a permissable topic?

Would a discussion on the equipment & weaponry of Kentucky frontiersmen
of the late eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries be a permissable
topic for the List?  Though, strictly speaking, outside the geographical
and chronological limitations of the List, because the culture of the
western mountain man evolved, in many respects, from the culture of the
Kentucky frontiersman, would a discussion of the latter be out of place?

  I am researching several related individuals who were scouts and
soldiers on the Kentucky frontier and on the western frontier in the War
of 1812 and would like to hear the List's opinions as to likely weaponry
and equipment carried, and the possibility of reproducing them today.

Bradley Omanson
West Virginia

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Feb 98 19:11:45 PST
From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Tipi -Reply

Tim
Sorry that I missed.  Sounds like you had a good camp.  I had to work 12
hours Saturday and 6 hours today.  Bummer!!  See you next time---with PORK
CHOPS11
Lanney

- ----------
> Lanny,
> Missed you this weekend.  We had 14 members and prospective members in
> attendance.  Weather good, some light rain, several nights cold, but a
good
> time.  Went on and gave the next boshway, Larry Pendelton, 40 or so
dollars to
> purchase stamps and things, so that should help him next year.  We all
kept
> expecting you to come in any minute.  Hope all is well.  I am leaving to
go to
> Orlando and will be gone for the entire week(business).  Will contact you
when
> I get back with a full report, since you are the "official scribe".  Have
a
> good day.
>
>
> Brothers,
> Tim
>
>
> Oh, it just dawned upon me why you did not make it, did not have pork
chops.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 16:14:33 -0700
From: "David Tippets" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Tipi/Pyramid tent documentation

Dear Zaz, et al,

I don't care to argue the authenticity of the pyramid tent, basically
because it is so simple and so common sense that it had to have been at
least improvised on many occasions; probably for centuries, even if it
wasn't manufactured in quantity until the gold rush and western emigration
period.

Darby's tent sketchbook, however, includes so much misinformation(pages
11-12 "grey areas") that it is hard to recommend it as a source of
documentation.

The problem with Miller's illustration often used as documentation is that
it shows nothing more than a two-dimensional silhouette in the background.
As such, it could just as reasonable be used to document the use of any of
the conical varieties of tents documented in use elsewhere, such as, the
British bell tent or the Sibley tent.  Certainly the Scottish Lord paying
Miller's salary was no stranger to the British bell tent, as it was the
common officer's tent used by King's army when said Lord was previously
engaged in an earlier adventure as an army officer.

So, while we don't have any additional evidence to support the Miller
painting/pyramid theory, besides the pointy silhouette, we can be relatively
confident that the camp's most affluent camper had earlier in his life
weathered numerous storms in a British bell tent.  It's not too big a jump
to reason that  Lord William Drummond Stewart took to the West what had
worked for him while he battled Napolean's forces at Waterloo.

There is also documentation that the Hudson Bay Company imported British
bell tents, and that at least some of  the bell tents used by David Thompson
found their way to the Rocky Mountains.

You may have noticed that most of the people defending the authenticity of
the pyramid tent are the same people who already own a pyramid tent.

- -----Original Message-----
From: zaslow <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Saturday, February 14, 1998 3:35 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Tipi


>There is some slight bit of documentation on the Pyramid tent that I am
>aware of.  The 1st is in "The Sketchbook on the Tents of the Fur Trade" by
>Samuel L. Darby on page 8.  Although this not a 1st hand source, he
mentions
>other sources which are.  The other I am readily aware of is a painting by
>Alfred Jacob Miller titled, "Our Camp."  It is plate 37 in the book,
"Alfred
>Jacob Miller, Artist on the Oregon Trail."  In the background is a tent
that
>looks like it might be a Pyramid.
>
>Best Regards,
>
>Jerry (Meriwether) Zaslow #1488
>
>At 10:32 PM 2/11/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>maybe you can do all this with a pryamid type type tent,but i do not know
>>of any documentation that this is period correct.i do not thinkthey are &
>>besides i think they look like crap ( only my opinion) my family has been
>>doing the rendezvouing for the past 15 years & as of this day no one has
>>been able to document these lodges to my knoledge.
>>
>>this is the first time i have responded to anything on this site & if i
>>step on any toes shoot me at a vou.we have had several different types of
>>lodges from a 10x10 lean to to now a 15x21 marque which is now just my
wife
>>& i.
>>
>>if ya ever get to the eastern locate a brother of ivory mountain & ask
>>where shootshimself is camped & then come look me up,& i might offer ya a
>>cold 1.
>>
>>                          shootshimself
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 16:25:00 -0800
From: "JON P TOWNS" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Kentucky frontiersmen: a permissible topic?

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_01BD3A2E.43539660
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I for one would like to hear or read about anything that would widen my
education about Mt men whether they be in the Kentucky mountains or hills I
think that the mountains back east are kind of funny I can look out side
and see a mountain fifty miles away that is 14410' tall and remember it
starts at sea level.  If you put it in the rockies it would be over 20000
ft tall.  Later Jon T

- ----------
: From: Omanson & Hollinger <[e-mail]>
: To: [e-mail]
: Subject: MtMan-List: Kentucky frontiersmen: a permissable topic?
: Date: Sunday, February 15, 1998 5:56 PM
:
: Would a discussion on the equipment & weaponry of Kentucky frontiersmen
: of the late eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries be a permissable
: topic for the List?  Though, strictly speaking, outside the geographical
: and chronological limitations of the List, because the culture of the
: western mountain man evolved, in many respects, from the culture of the
: Kentucky frontiersman, would a discussion of the latter be out of place?
:
:   I am researching several related individuals who were scouts and
: soldiers on the Kentucky frontier and on the western frontier in the War
: of 1812 and would like to hear the List's opinions as to likely weaponry
: and equipment carried, and the possibility of reproducing them today.
:
: Bradley Omanson
: West Virginia
:
:
- ------=_NextPart_000_01BD3A2E.43539660
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><p><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Arial">I for one would like to hear or read =
about anything that would widen my education about Mt men whether they =
be in the Kentucky mountains or hills I think that the mountains back =
east are kind of funny I can look out side and see a mountain fifty =
miles away that is 14410' tall and remember it starts at sea level. =
 If you put it in the rockies it would be over 20000 ft tall. =
 Later Jon T<br><br>----------<br>: From: Omanson & Hollinger =
<<font color=3D"#0000FF"><u>[e-mail]</u><font =
color=3D"#000000">><br>: To: <font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>[e-mail]</u><font =
color=3D"#000000"><br>: Subject: MtMan-List: Kentucky frontiersmen: a =
permissable topic?<br>: Date: Sunday, February 15, 1998 5:56 PM<br>: =
<br>: Would a discussion on the equipment & weaponry of Kentucky =
frontiersmen <br>: of the late eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries =
be a permissable <br>: topic for the List?  Though, strictly =
speaking, outside the geographical <br>: and chronological limitations =
of the List, because the culture of the <br>: western mountain man =
evolved, in many respects, from the culture of the <br>: Kentucky =
frontiersman, would a discussion of the latter be out of place?<br>: =
<br>:   I am researching several related individuals who were =
scouts and <br>: soldiers on the Kentucky frontier and on the western =
frontier in the War <br>: of 1812 and would like to hear the List's =
opinions as to likely weaponry <br>: and equipment carried, and the =
possibility of reproducing them today.<br>: <br>: Bradley Omanson<br>: =
West Virginia<br>: <br>: </p>
</font></font></font></font></font></body></html>
- ------=_NextPart_000_01BD3A2E.43539660--

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 19:37:14 -0800 (PST)
From: zaslow <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Tipi/Pyramid tent documentation

David,

I completely agree with you.  Just wanted to provide a starting point for
those that wanted to know about the Pyramid tent and do some research on it.
Also, I have also heard it argued that the tent in the Miller painting is
actually a Tipi and Miller just didn't paint the poles for it (although I
find that a bit hard to believe.)  There is such a thing as artistic
licence, though.  Another thing about Darby's Sketchbook, he says he has
references for the Pyramid dating it to the 1820s, but I would like to see
them before taking it as gospel.  As I mentioned, it is not a 1st hand
reference and therefore, not documentated proof that this tent is
historically correct.

Best Regards,

Jerry (Meriwether) Zaslow #1488

At 04:14 PM 2/14/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Dear Zaz, et al,
>
>I don't care to argue the authenticity of the pyramid tent, basically
>because it is so simple and so common sense that it had to have been at
>least improvised on many occasions; probably for centuries, even if it
>wasn't manufactured in quantity until the gold rush and western emigration
>period.
>
>Darby's tent sketchbook, however, includes so much misinformation(pages
>11-12 "grey areas") that it is hard to recommend it as a source of
>documentation.
>
>The problem with Miller's illustration often used as documentation is that
>it shows nothing more than a two-dimensional silhouette in the background.
>As such, it could just as reasonable be used to document the use of any of
>the conical varieties of tents documented in use elsewhere, such as, the
>British bell tent or the Sibley tent.  Certainly the Scottish Lord paying
>Miller's salary was no stranger to the British bell tent, as it was the
>common officer's tent used by King's army when said Lord was previously
>engaged in an earlier adventure as an army officer.
>
>So, while we don't have any additional evidence to support the Miller
>painting/pyramid theory, besides the pointy silhouette, we can be relatively
>confident that the camp's most affluent camper had earlier in his life
>weathered numerous storms in a British bell tent.  It's not too big a jump
>to reason that  Lord William Drummond Stewart took to the West what had
>worked for him while he battled Napolean's forces at Waterloo.
>
>There is also documentation that the Hudson Bay Company imported British
>bell tents, and that at least some of  the bell tents used by David Thompson
>found their way to the Rocky Mountains.
>
>You may have noticed that most of the people defending the authenticity of
>the pyramid tent are the same people who already own a pyramid tent.
>


------------------------------

Date: 15 Feb 98 19:52:54 +0000
From: Phyllis and Don Keas <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Char Cloth.

I have tried just about everything over the years for char cloth.  The
absolute best I have ever found is lamp wicking.  Tough as can be, it will
catch and hold a spark better than anything.   Don Keas


rparker7 wrote:
>On Thu, 12 Feb 1998 08:02:49 -0800, you wrote:
>
>>Hello the List,
>>
>>There have been several messages concerning the best material for char
>>cloth. It's important to note that all natural fiber fabric
>>manufacturered in the U.S. is treated with a fire retardant by law.
This
>>fire retardant also makes your char harder to light. My favorite is raw
>>cotton right off the plant, seeds and all. It will catch the smallest
>>spark and burn better and hotter than any material I have ever seen. NO
>>ONE who has used it has ever gone back to what they used before.
>>
>Unless the law has been changed in the last year, the above is
>incorrect, at least on a federal level.  Some states may have more
>restrictive requirements, but Texas is not one of them.  Flame
>retardant is required only for pajamas and flannel intended for
>childrens use.  It is also available for some pajamas for adult use.
>You can buy untreated flannel at any fabric store.  Not all of it is
>untreated, and you have to ask for it, but you can easily get it.
>Last time I bought any was a year or so ago.  If the laws have changed
>I'm unaware of it.
>Roy Parker, Booshway, 1998 SW Regional Rendezvous,
[e-mail]
>Full SW Rendezvous info available at http://www.sat.net/~robenhaus
>Buckskinner, Brewer, Blacksmith and other "B"'s, including "BS".
>
>
>
>RFC822 header
>-----------------------------------
>
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>From: [e-mail] (Roy Parker)
>To: [e-mail]
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Char Cloth
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>

------------------------------

Date: 15 Feb 98 19:58:31 +0000
From: Phyllis and Don Keas <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Tipi/Pyramid tent documentation.

Susan Magoffin used a one pole pyramid on her trip down the Santa Fe
trail in 1846.  Don Keas


David Tippets wrote:
>Dear Zaz, et al,
>
>I don't care to argue the authenticity of the pyramid tent, basically
>because it is so simple and so common sense that it had to have been at
>least improvised on many occasions; probably for centuries, even if it
>wasn't manufactured in quantity until the gold rush and western
emigration
>period.
>
>Darby's tent sketchbook, however, includes so much misinformation(pages
>11-12 "grey areas") that it is hard to recommend it as a source of
>documentation.
>
>The problem with Miller's illustration often used as documentation is
that
>it shows nothing more than a two-dimensional silhouette in the
background.
>As such, it could just as reasonable be used to document the use of any
of
>the conical varieties of tents documented in use elsewhere, such as, the
>British bell tent or the Sibley tent.  Certainly the Scottish Lord
paying
>Miller's salary was no stranger to the British bell tent, as it was the
>common officer's tent used by King's army when said Lord was previously
>engaged in an earlier adventure as an army officer.
>
>So, while we don't have any additional evidence to support the Miller
>painting/pyramid theory, besides the pointy silhouette, we can be
relatively
>confident that the camp's most affluent camper had earlier in his life
>weathered numerous storms in a British bell tent.  It's not too big a
jump
>to reason that  Lord William Drummond Stewart took to the West what had
>worked for him while he battled Napolean's forces at Waterloo.
>
>There is also documentation that the Hudson Bay Company imported British
>bell tents, and that at least some of  the bell tents used by David
Thompson
>found their way to the Rocky Mountains.
>
>You may have noticed that most of the people defending the authenticity
of
>the pyramid tent are the same people who already own a pyramid tent.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: zaslow <[e-mail]>
>To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
>Date: Saturday, February 14, 1998 3:35 AM
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Tipi
>
>
>>There is some slight bit of documentation on the Pyramid tent that I am
>>aware of.  The 1st is in "The Sketchbook on the Tents of the Fur Trade"
by
>>Samuel L. Darby on page 8.  Although this not a 1st hand source, he
>mentions
>>other sources which are.  The other I am readily aware of is a painting
by
>>Alfred Jacob Miller titled, "Our Camp."  It is plate 37 in the book,
>"Alfred
>>Jacob Miller, Artist on the Oregon Trail."  In the background is a tent
>that
>>looks like it might be a Pyramid.
>>
>>Best Regards,
>>
>>Jerry (Meriwether) Zaslow #1488
>>
>>At 10:32 PM 2/11/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>>maybe you can do all this with a pryamid type type tent,but i do not
know
>>>of any documentation that this is period correct.i do not thinkthey
are &
>>>besides i think they look like crap ( only my opinion) my family has
been
>>>doing the rendezvouing for the past 15 years & as of this day no one
has
>>>been able to document these lodges to my knoledge.
>>>
>>>this is the first time i have responded to anything on this site & if
i
>>>step on any toes shoot me at a vou.we have had several different types
of
>>>lodges from a 10x10 lean to to now a 15x21 marque which is now just my
>wife
>>>& i.
>>>
>>>if ya ever get to the eastern locate a brother of ivory mountain & ask
>>>where shootshimself is camped & then come look me up,& i might offer
ya a
>>>cold 1.
>>>
>>>                          shootshimself
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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>From: "David Tippets" <[e-mail]>
>To: <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Tipi/Pyramid tent documentation
>Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 16:14:33 -0700
>X-Priority: 3
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 23:05:19 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re:  MtMan-List: American Fur Co.

I believe the American Fur Co, was established by John Jacob Astor.  There is
an excellent book on the subject called "Astoria and Empire" by James P.
Ronda .   It is published by the University of Nebraska Press.  Also the web
page >http://www.thehistorynet.com/< use to have an article on John Jacob
Astor.
Regards
Stephen C. Savage
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 23:13:52 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re:  Re: MtMan-List: Kentucky frontiersmen: a permissible topic?

I think a discussion of Kentucky frontiersmen would be appropriate.  To often
the early frontier is ignored in favor of the American west of the Mississippi
river, with lout realizing that the eastern frontier people lead the way to
the western frontier.  With out them there would have been no western
frontier.
Regards
Stephen Savage
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 23:31:40 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re:  MtMan-List: Char Cloth

Richard, are you catching a spark with the raw cotton or do you char it first?
Not much cotton in the Northwest, but we do have touchwood......
Steve

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 08:47:25 -0500
From: Barry Powell <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Kentucky frontiersmen: a permissable topic?

I would appreciate a good discussion on eastern frontiersmen (Kentucky and
otherwise). That happens to be my area of expertise anyway!

BDP

At 05:56 PM 2/15/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Would a discussion on the equipment & weaponry of Kentucky frontiersmen
>of the late eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries be a permissable
>topic for the List?  Though, strictly speaking, outside the geographical

>
>Bradley Omanson
>West Virginia
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 08:32:06 -0600 (CST)
From: [e-mail] (Henry B. Crawford)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Char Cloth.

>I have tried just about everything over the years for char cloth.  The
>absolute best I have ever found is lamp wicking.  Tough as can be, it will
>catch and hold a spark better than anything.
>Don Keas
>


But, since the lamps which used that wicking weren't developed until the
late 1850s at the earliest, you'd do well to find something in addition to
which would be appropriate for the rendezvous period, if that is what
you're interpreting.  That's why I use unbleached muslin.  It catches a
spark well, but it's also good for any American history black powder
period.

HBC

*****************************************
Henry B. Crawford        Curator of History
[e-mail]     Museum of Texas Tech University
806/742-2442           Box 43191
FAX [phone]             Lubbock, TX  79409-3191
               WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
**************    "Make it so!"    ***************

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 08:47:43 -0600
From: Jim Colburn <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Dadly-pattern knives

Washtahay-
        would appreciate any info in Re: the date of introduction of the
Dadly or Dadley pattern knives.
Thanks
LongWalker c. du B.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 17:48:47 -0800
From: Dale Nelson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Kentucky frontiersmen: a permissable topic?

Omanson & Hollinger wrote:
     <snip>
> Kentucky frontiersman, would a discussion of the latter be out of place?
>
I don't think it would be out of place, but I'm not the one who sets the
rules either.

>   I am researching several related individuals who were scouts and
> soldiers on the Kentucky frontier and on the western frontier in the

Who are the individuals?  That would be important to know when talking
about likely equipment.

> War of 1812 and would like to hear the List's opinions as to likely weaponry
> and equipment carried, and the possibility of reproducing them today.
>
 I can't see you having a problem with reproducing equipment and
weapons.  For starters you can't go to far wrong spending $5 on a Dixie
Gun Works Catalog just for the shear volume of stuff and information.
There are also lots of other sites on the Net that has free information
and stuff for sale.  But for specific help you need to give specific
information.
                Dale

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 18:44:27 -0800
From: Frank Stewart <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Kentucky frontiersmen: a permissable topic?

Omanson & Hollinger wrote:

>   I am researching several related individuals who were scouts and
> soldiers on the Kentucky frontier and on the western frontier in the War
> of 1812 and would like to hear the List's opinions as to likely weaponry
> and equipment carried, and the possibility of reproducing them today.

Here are some links that may have some of the information you're looking
for.  They seem to be more orientated toward the longhunter of the
1700's.http://home1.gte.net/ott1/http://www.ccnn.net/~paladin/
http://www.gfw.k12.mn.us/~norifle/

Hope these help,
Medicine Bear

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 19:58:11 -0800
From: Frank Stewart <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Tipi/Pyramid tent documentation

zaslow wrote:

> Another thing about Darby's Sketchbook, he says he has
> references for the Pyramid dating it to the 1820s, but I would like to see
> them before taking it as gospel.  As I mentioned, it is not a 1st hand
> reference and therefore, not documentated proof that this tent is
> historically correct.

Okay, if the pyramid is pushing to envelope of "period correct" can anyone
recomend a tent that is period correct and where it might be obtained?

Thanks, MB

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 08:04:51 -0700
From: "David Tippets" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Char Cloth/Lampwick

Henry,

I was delighted to discover you have some information about the origins of
lampwick.  My historical interests in the origins and times of origin of
lampwick extend beyond lamps and char.

In the turn of the Century "how to" by outdoors people such as E. Kreps and
Raymond Thompson, they describe lampwick as the traditional and preferred
material for snowshoe bindings.  I'd greatly appreciate it if you could
steer me in the direction of any information that might shed light on just
how early lampwick might have been a common trade item in the North.

In a recent conversation with Canadian Park Ranger Craig McDonald, I learned
much to my surprise that one of the reasons that lampwick is still preferred
by many for snowshoe bindings is because it so readily absorbs water and
freezes after the bindings are tied.

 What this amounts to is a binding that can be formed exactly to an
individuals moccasin, but then freezes to to a semi-rigid binding that the
foot can be twisted into, and out of, without messing with the knots.  This
allows rapid escape in an emergency, such as breaking through the ice on a
lake, and easy entry into the binding without having to remove the mittens.

The lampwick is tied in the same traditional Indian pattern as leather was
previously tied in, requiring about 8 feet of lampwick per binding.  This
suggests, that once lampwick was in demand for snowshoe bindings as well as
lamps, it was probably sold or traded in fairly long sections.  Try finding
it in a long piece nowadays.

Please point me in the direction to learn about the origins of lampwick.
Thanks!
- -----Original Message-----
From: Henry B. Crawford <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Monday, February 16, 1998 7:33 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Char Cloth.


>>I have tried just about everything over the years for char cloth.  The
>>absolute best I have ever found is lamp wicking.  Tough as can be, it will
>>catch and hold a spark better than anything.
>>Don Keas
>>
>
>
>But, since the lamps which used that wicking weren't developed until the
>late 1850s at the earliest, you'd do well to find something in addition to
>which would be appropriate for the rendezvous period, if that is what
>you're interpreting.  That's why I use unbleached muslin.  It catches a
>spark well, but it's also good for any American history black powder
>period.
>
>HBC
>
>*****************************************
>Henry B. Crawford        Curator of History
>[e-mail]     Museum of Texas Tech University
>806/742-2442           Box 43191
>FAX [phone]             Lubbock, TX  79409-3191
>               WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
>**************    "Make it so!"    ***************
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 10:37:22 -0600 (CST)
From: [e-mail] (Henry B. Crawford)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Char Cloth/Lampwick

>Henry,
>
>I was delighted to discover you have some information about the origins of
>lampwick.  My historical interests in the origins and times of origin of
>lampwick extend beyond lamps and char.
>

David
My mistake.  I was under the impression that you were refering to the wide
cotton wick made for kerosene lamps.  Those are of mid-19th century origin.
I am delighted to learn more about the precursors of kerosene lamp wick.

Thanks for "en-lightening" me

HBC

*****************************************
Henry B. Crawford        Curator of History
[e-mail]     Museum of Texas Tech University
806/742-2442           Box 43191
FAX [phone]             Lubbock, TX  79409-3191
               WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
**************    "Make it so!"    ***************

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 10:24:33 -0600
From: Jim Colburn <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Book Sale

Washtahay folks-
        I am having what I hope will be my final book sale of the year.
Contact me off-list for details.  Details and the list will go out about 3PM
central.  Thanks.
LongWalker, c. du B.
Jim Colburn
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 10:47:44 -0600 (CST)
From: [e-mail] (Henry B. Crawford)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Tipi/Pyramid tent documentation

>zaslow wrote:
>
>> Another thing about Darby's Sketchbook, he says he has
>> references for the Pyramid dating it to the 1820s, but I would like to see
>> them before taking it as gospel.  As I mentioned, it is not a 1st hand
>> reference and therefore, not documentated proof that this tent is
>> historically correct.
>
>Okay, if the pyramid is pushing to envelope of "period correct" can anyone
>recomend a tent that is period correct and where it might be obtained?
>
>Thanks, MB

Sure.  A wedge tent is definitely appropriate for the rendezvous period and
well documented by darn near everyone.  I'd use a miners tent for Bent's
Fort's 1846 period events (thanks to Parkman who had one on the Santa Fe
Trail that year).  I would hesitate using them for the rondy period w/o
good documentation.  For those I rely on my wedge, or just bunk with
someone else.  There is usually more than a few lodges with plenty of extra
space.

Most tent dealers sell the venerable wedge.

Cheers,
HBC

*****************************************
Henry B. Crawford        Curator of History
[e-mail]     Museum of Texas Tech University
806/742-2442           Box 43191
FAX [phone]             Lubbock, TX  79409-3191
               WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
**************    "Make it so!"    ***************

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 11:27:09 -0600 (CST)
From: [e-mail] (Henry B. Crawford)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: American Fur Co.

>To the list:
>
>        I recently purcahsed a home in St. Charles, MI.  On the house is
>a sign that states it is a local historical site.  It was surveyed in
>March of 1853 and was sold to the American Fur Co. in 1859.  Is the
>American Fur Co. a fur trade company or some other sort of business.  I
>do realize "The Fur Trade Era" lasted to about 1840.


Jim,
Welcome to the hottest history discussion list this side of the Civil War.
You'll learn more than you thought you would about this topic.

One thing I would caution is do not confuse the Fur Trade era with the
Rendezvous period.  The latter only lasted 16 years, while the former is
still going on.  The era many people erroneously refer to when they say the
"Fur Trade" is the period between 1825 and 1840, when the fur trade
companies designated a place in the mountains to meet trappers and exchange
supplies for furs gathered the previous winter.  Such events were called
Rendezvous, a French word which refers to a meeting or gathering.  Modern
fur trade living history gatherings are, thus, called Rendezvous, or simply
the Rondy, or colloquial variations thereof.

What happened before 1825 and after1840?  Before the historic rondy, the
fur companies operated out of trading posts, or "factories" where goods and
supplies were exchanged for furs.  The person in charge of the post was
called a "chief factor."  The fur trade did not end in 1840.  The
rendezvous system did.  After the last rondy in 1840, the fur companies
went back to the old trading post system, where it had essentially begun.
The fur trade is still with us today.  Hudson's Bay Company, founded in
1670 for the sole purpose of trading furs, is still a viable trading
company, and remains the oldest corporation in North America today.

On the Southern Plains, as well as on the upper Missouri, there really was
no break in the continuity of the trading post system.  Bent's Fort on the
Arkansas, as an example, was established at the height of the rondy period
(1833) and thrived, primarily because the Bent St Vrain Co (BSV),
proprieters traded for buffalo robes (as well as beaver, fox, otter and
others.)  Although the Bent brothers and Ceran St. Vrain had been beaver
trappers, they were not tied to the beaver trade for their primary
livelihood, which is why they outlasted the rendezvous.  (What eventually
became of Bents Fort and the buffalo robe trade on the Arkansas is another
story.)

After the beaver trade fell off, due to market anomalies and environmental
damage, the buffalo robe trade (which btw is considered by historians as
part of the fur trade story) continued to thrive through the middle 1880s.
An indepth article on the buffalo robe fur trade is T. Lindsay Baker's two
part article "Beaver to Buffalo Robes: Transition in the Fur Trade," which
can be found in the _Museum of the Fur Trade Quarterly_, Spring and Summer
issues of 1987.  T. Lindsay is one of the recognized experts on the buffalo
robe trade, and a real nice guy.

Welcome to a fascinating period in our history.

Cheers,
HBC

*****************************************
Henry B. Crawford        Curator of History
[e-mail]     Museum of Texas Tech University
806/742-2442           Box 43191
FAX [phone]             Lubbock, TX  79409-3191
               WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
**************    "Make it so!"    ***************

------------------------------

End of hist_text-digest V1 #21
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