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From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <lanneyratcliff@charter.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Fw: White Arian Brotherhood Date: 01 Nov 2003 06:30:28 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_014C_01C3A041.A417AFC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here is my response to one Ms Pauline Schneider who posted me with the = little message appended below my response. Anybody know this person? ----- Original Message -----=20 Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 6:26 AM Yes ma'am I do hate nazis and all of their ilk........without apology to = you or anybody else. You don't know a God damned thing about me and = your opinion is of no value to me at all. I will tell you this. My = father died from the being shot with a German machine gun in a war = against nazis and that's enough personal reason for me to hate them. As = for everybody having a good reason to hate the nazis there was that = little matter of herr hitler coming closer than we realize to destroying = the world. Oh, one more thing......the millions who died in nazi death = camps murdered by nazis trying to scourge the world of non aryans could = be another reason. Need I go on? I could, but I'm sick of this. However, that's all I hate, with the exception of cockroaches which are = pretty much the same as nazis. I don't know who you are and don't care = to know. I am adding you to my "blocked senders" list and anything else = from you will go immediately to my delete file. =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Pauline Schneider=20 To: lanneyratcliff@charter.net=20 Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 11:51 PM Subject: White Arian Brotherhood Sounds like you are just as full of hate has they are. ------=_NextPart_000_014C_01C3A041.A417AFC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1264" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Here is my response to one = Ms Pauline=20 Schneider who posted me with the little message appended below my=20 response. Anybody know this person?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----=20 <DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A=20 title=3Dlanneyratcliff@charter.net = href=3D"mailto:lanneyratcliff@charter.net">Lanney=20 Ratcliff</A> </DIV> <DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dpjes@comcast.net = href=3D"mailto:pjes@comcast.net">Pauline=20 Schneider</A> </DIV> <DIV><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, November 01, 2003 6:26 AM</DIV> <DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: White Arian Brotherhood</DIV></DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Yes ma'am I do hate nazis = and all of=20 their ilk........without apology to you or anybody else. You = don't=20 know a God damned thing about me and your opinion is of no = value to me=20 at all. I will tell you this. My father died from the being = shot=20 with a German machine gun in a war against nazis and that's enough=20 personal reason for me to hate them. As for everybody = having a=20 good reason to hate the nazis there was that little matter of herr = hitler=20 coming closer than we realize to destroying the world. Oh, = one more=20 thing......the millions who died in nazi death camps murdered by = nazis=20 trying to scourge the world of non aryans could be another = reason. =20 Need I go on? I could, but I'm sick of this.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>However, that's all I hate, = with the=20 exception of cockroaches which are pretty much the same as nazis. = I don't=20 know who you are and don't care to know. I am adding you to my = "blocked=20 senders" list and anything else from you will go immediately to my = delete=20 file. </FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Dpjes@comcast.net href=3D"mailto:pjes@comcast.net">Pauline = Schneider</A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3Dlanneyratcliff@charter.net=20 = href=3D"mailto:lanneyratcliff@charter.net">lanneyratcliff@charter.net</A>= </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, October 31, 2003 = 11:51=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> White Arian = Brotherhood</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sounds like you are just as full of = hate has they=20 are.</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_014C_01C3A041.A417AFC0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Frank Fusco" <Rifleman1776@cox-internet.com> Subject: MtMan-List: L&C rifles Date: 01 Nov 2003 08:11:21 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C3A04F.BC3ADA60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Interesting story in the news this week about some new theories on = the Lewis & Clark expedition. Inventories of what was taken on the journey have been studied. = Seems they took much more powder and lead than they used, bringing back = about half of what they set out with. What may cause the most controversy amongst reenactors though, was = the discovery that the almost legendary Harpers Ferry 1803 contract = rifle/musket may never have gone on the expedition. Records indicate = that while the rifle was contracted, there is a strong probability that = they were not delivered in time for the expedition. How little we really know. Frank ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C3A04F.BC3ADA60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1264" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV> Interesting story in the news this week about = some new=20 theories on the Lewis & Clark expedition.</DIV> <DIV> Inventories of what was taken on the journey = have been=20 studied. Seems they took much more powder and lead than they used, = bringing back=20 about half of what they set out with.</DIV> <DIV> What may cause the most controversy amongst = reenactors=20 though, was the discovery that the almost legendary Harpers Ferry 1803 = contract=20 rifle/musket may never have gone on the expedition. Records indicate = that while=20 the rifle was contracted, there is a strong probability that they were = not=20 delivered in time for the expedition.</DIV> <DIV> How little we really know.</DIV> <DIV>Frank</DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C3A04F.BC3ADA60-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dale Nelson" <dnelson@wizzards.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: L&C rifles Date: 01 Nov 2003 06:52:51 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C3A044.C4E35940 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What news did you hear that on? I read something kind of like that = years ago in an American Rifleman. Can't remember well enough, but the = author of that one kind of thought that only one Harpers Ferry went on = the expedition, and it was a prototype that had some big differences = from the finished product. If I recall even closely, which I'm probably = not, someone some where in the mountains had found the remains of what = he thought was this rifle -- because it was a "different" Harpers Ferry. = Maybe someone else remembers this article. Dale Nelson ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Frank Fusco=20 To: list AMM=20 Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 6:11 AM Subject: MtMan-List: L&C rifles Interesting story in the news this week about some new theories on = the Lewis & Clark expedition. Inventories of what was taken on the journey have been studied. = Seems they took much more powder and lead than they used, bringing back = about half of what they set out with. What may cause the most controversy amongst reenactors though, was = the discovery that the almost legendary Harpers Ferry 1803 contract = rifle/musket may never have gone on the expedition. Records indicate = that while the rifle was contracted, there is a strong probability that = they were not delivered in time for the expedition. How little we really know. Frank ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C3A044.C4E35940 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV>What news did you hear that on? I read something kind of like = that=20 years ago in an American Rifleman. Can't remember well enough, but = the=20 author of that one kind of thought that only one Harpers = Ferry went=20 on the expedition, and it was a prototype that had some big differences = from the=20 finished product. If I recall even closely, which I'm probably = not,=20 someone some where in the mountains had found the remains of what = he=20 thought was this rifle -- because it was a "different" Harpers = Ferry. =20 Maybe someone else remembers this article. Dale Nelson</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3DRifleman1776@cox-internet.com=20 href=3D"mailto:Rifleman1776@cox-internet.com">Frank Fusco</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3Dhist_text@xmission.com=20 href=3D"mailto:hist_text@xmission.com">list AMM</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, November 01, = 2003 6:11=20 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> MtMan-List: L&C = rifles</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV> Interesting story in the news this week about = some new=20 theories on the Lewis & Clark expedition.</DIV> <DIV> Inventories of what was taken on the journey = have been=20 studied. Seems they took much more powder and lead than they used, = bringing=20 back about half of what they set out with.</DIV> <DIV> What may cause the most controversy amongst = reenactors=20 though, was the discovery that the almost legendary Harpers Ferry 1803 = contract rifle/musket may never have gone on the expedition. Records = indicate=20 that while the rifle was contracted, there is a strong probability = that they=20 were not delivered in time for the expedition.</DIV> <DIV> How little we really know.</DIV> <DIV>Frank</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C3A044.C4E35940-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" <admiller@citynet.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: White Arian Brotherhood Date: 01 Nov 2003 10:23:21 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C3A062.2D077B10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well said, Lanney!!! Regards, Ad ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C3A062.2D077B10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1141" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Well said, Lanney!!!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Regards,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Ad</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C3A062.2D077B10-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MdntRdr1@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: White Arian Brotherhood Date: 01 Nov 2003 12:07:51 EST Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maybe I missed it, but how did a list about the Mountain Men get onto the subject of methhead idiots who are usually classified in the "Universally Stupid and Worthless" category? Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML><HEAD> <META charset=3DUTF-8 http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charse= t=3Dutf-8"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1264" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff= f"><FONT size=3D4>Maybe I missed it, but how did a list about the Mountain M= en get onto the subject of methhead idiots who are usually classified in the= "Universally Stupid and Worthless" category?</FONT></BODY></HTML> ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wynn Ormond" <cheyenne@pcu.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: White Arian Brotherhood Date: 01 Nov 2003 12:51:40 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C3A076.E504FBC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am sorry to hear about your father Lanney. We owe so much to that = generation. Give new meaning to respect your elders. Wynn ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Lanney Ratcliff=20 To: Danney Ratcliff=20 Cc: scalpdance ; History List ; AMM=20 Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 5:30 AM Subject: MtMan-List: Fw: White Arian Brotherhood Here is my response to one Ms Pauline Schneider who posted me with the = little message appended below my response. Anybody know this person? ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Lanney Ratcliff=20 To: Pauline Schneider=20 Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 6:26 AM Subject: Re: White Arian Brotherhood Yes ma'am I do hate nazis and all of their ilk........without apology = to you or anybody else. You don't know a God damned thing about me and = your opinion is of no value to me at all. I will tell you this. My = father died from the being shot with a German machine gun in a war = against nazis and that's enough personal reason for me to hate them. As = for everybody having a good reason to hate the nazis there was that = little matter of herr hitler coming closer than we realize to destroying = the world. Oh, one more thing......the millions who died in nazi death = camps murdered by nazis trying to scourge the world of non aryans could = be another reason. Need I go on? I could, but I'm sick of this. However, that's all I hate, with the exception of cockroaches which = are pretty much the same as nazis. I don't know who you are and don't = care to know. I am adding you to my "blocked senders" list and anything = else from you will go immediately to my delete file. =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Pauline Schneider=20 To: lanneyratcliff@charter.net=20 Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 11:51 PM Subject: White Arian Brotherhood Sounds like you are just as full of hate has they are. ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C3A076.E504FBC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I am sorry to hear about your father = Lanney. =20 We owe so much to that generation. Give new meaning to respect = your=20 elders.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Wynn</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Dlanneyratcliff@charter.net=20 href=3D"mailto:lanneyratcliff@charter.net">Lanney Ratcliff</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3Dd-ratcliff@sbcglobal.net=20 href=3D"mailto:d-ratcliff@sbcglobal.net">Danney Ratcliff</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A = title=3Dscalpdance@yahoogroups.com=20 href=3D"mailto:scalpdance@yahoogroups.com">scalpdance</A> ; <A=20 title=3Dhist_text@xmission.com = href=3D"mailto:hist_text@xmission.com">History=20 List</A> ; <A title=3Dammlist@xmission.com=20 href=3D"mailto:ammlist@xmission.com">AMM</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, November 01, = 2003 5:30=20 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> MtMan-List: Fw: White = Arian=20 Brotherhood</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Here is my response to = one Ms Pauline=20 Schneider who posted me with the little message appended below my=20 response. Anybody know this person?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----=20 <DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A=20 title=3Dlanneyratcliff@charter.net=20 href=3D"mailto:lanneyratcliff@charter.net">Lanney Ratcliff</A> </DIV> <DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dpjes@comcast.net=20 href=3D"mailto:pjes@comcast.net">Pauline Schneider</A> </DIV> <DIV><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, November 01, 2003 6:26 AM</DIV> <DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: White Arian Brotherhood</DIV></DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Yes ma'am I do hate nazis = and all of=20 their ilk........without apology to you or anybody else. = You don't=20 know a God damned thing about me and your opinion is of no = value to=20 me at all. I will tell you this. My father died from the = being=20 shot with a German machine gun in a war against nazis and that's = enough=20 personal reason for me to hate them. As for everybody = having a=20 good reason to hate the nazis there was that little matter of = herr hitler=20 coming closer than we realize to destroying the world. Oh, = one more=20 thing......the millions who died in nazi death camps murdered by = nazis=20 trying to scourge the world of non aryans could be another = reason. =20 Need I go on? I could, but I'm sick of this.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>However, that's all I = hate, with the=20 exception of cockroaches which are pretty much the same as nazis. = I=20 don't know who you are and don't care to know. I am adding you = to my=20 "blocked senders" list and anything else from you will go immediately = to my=20 delete file. </FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Dpjes@comcast.net href=3D"mailto:pjes@comcast.net">Pauline = Schneider</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3Dlanneyratcliff@charter.net=20 = href=3D"mailto:lanneyratcliff@charter.net">lanneyratcliff@charter.net</A>= =20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, October 31, = 2003 11:51=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> White Arian = Brotherhood</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sounds like you are just as full of = hate has=20 they are.</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C3A076.E504FBC0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: NaugaMok@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: White Arian Brotherhood Date: 01 Nov 2003 19:17:05 EST --part1_57.2438ef7a.2cd5a701_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/1/2003 4:32:15 AM Pacific Standard Time, lanneyratcliff@charter.net writes: > However, that's all I hate, with the exception of cockroaches which are > pretty much the same as nazis. Did ya really have to insult the cockroaches??? Nauga Mok --part1_57.2438ef7a.2cd5a701_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE= =3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">In a message dated 11/1/2003 4:32:15 AM Pacific Standa= rd Time, lanneyratcliff@charter.net writes:<BR> <BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2= FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"><BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D4= FAMILY=3D"SERIF" FACE=3D"Times New Roman" LANG=3D"0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCIT= E style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0= px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">However, that's all I hate, with the exception of coc= kroaches which are pretty much the same as nazis. </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D3= FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"><BR> Did ya really have to insult the cockroaches???<BR> <BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D4= FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT" FACE=3D"Mistral" LANG=3D"0">Nauga Mok</FONT></HTML> --part1_57.2438ef7a.2cd5a701_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <lanneyratcliff@charter.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: White Arian Brotherhood Date: 01 Nov 2003 19:28:58 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0056_01C3A0AE.65D97690 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MdntRdr1 wrote: =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: MdntRdr1@aol.com=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 11:07 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: White Arian Brotherhood Maybe I missed it, but how did a list about the Mountain Men get onto = the subject of methhead idiots who are usually classified in the = "Universally Stupid and Worthless" category?=20 Dear MdntRdr1 The subject came up because Ms Pauline Schneider saw fit to say in a = public forum that I had as much hate as the nazis after I told about = throwing a nazi out of my house and warning folks to tell their children = that these vermin are still around. That sounded pretty much like she = was equating me with them and I won't take that crap from her or anybody = else. Hating a nazi doesn't make me (or anybody else) one of them. = I'm sorry that this collection of comments has detracted anybody for the = ongoing discussion about the Mountain Men. =20 As far as I'm concerned the thread can end here. ------=_NextPart_000_0056_01C3A0AE.65D97690 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1264" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: = #ffffff"=20 bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>MdntRdr1 wrote: = </FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3DMdntRdr1@aol.com = href=3D"mailto:MdntRdr1@aol.com">MdntRdr1@aol.com</A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3Dhist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 = href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com= </A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, November 01, = 2003 11:07=20 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: Fw: = White Arian=20 Brotherhood</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D4>Maybe I missed it, but how did a list about the = Mountain Men=20 get onto the subject of methhead idiots who are usually classified in = the=20 "Universally Stupid and Worthless" category?</FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D4>Dear MdntRdr1</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D4>The subject came up because Ms = Pauline Schneider=20 saw fit to say in a public forum that I had as much hate as the = nazis=20 after I told about throwing a nazi out of my house and warning folks = to tell=20 their children that these vermin are still around. That=20 sounded pretty much like she was equating me with them and = I won't=20 take that crap from her or anybody else. Hating a nazi doesn't=20 make me (or anybody else) one of them. I'm = sorry=20 that this collection of comments has detracted anybody for the = ongoing=20 discussion about the Mountain Men. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D4>As far as I'm concerned the thread can end=20 here.</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0056_01C3A0AE.65D97690-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: White Arian Brotherhood & Dogs! Date: 01 Nov 2003 18:31:32 -0700 (MST) Aren't cockeroaches black! Sounds a bit racist to me! Isn't this a mountainman list? Maybe we should get back on the heated dog breed discussion again. I hate German Shepherds and those Irish Setters!!!...Great Danes! Who's says their so great!.....Just kidding I love all you ugly people! Life's too short. Happy November! BB >> However, that's all I hate, with the exception of cockroaches which are >> pretty much the same as nazis. > > Did ya really have to insult the cockroaches??? > > Nauga Mok > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Indian Robe Dressing Date: 01 Nov 2003 18:39:46 -0700 (MST) No one knows nothing about this? Someone must know what I'm talking about. Come on? I need some help here. Nothin'? > Does anyone know about or a good source about Indian women getting a > certain award or recognitions for dressing over 50 bison hides? I once > heard about them attaining some distinction over doing so many robes. > Thanks in advance, > Beaverboy > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: MtMan-List: Not Making Meat! Date: 01 Nov 2003 19:01:27 -0700 (MST) Dear List, Went hunting with the fusee yesterday. Cold and snow on the ground. Had a whitetail doe and two fawns walk to within 20 yards of my stand. Can't bring myself to shoot a wet doe or a fawn anymore. Nothing against a hunter who takes one, I did it for years myself and would again in a pinch in a second. That doe Mother knew right where I was from the git-go. She finally winded me. They teach the young bucks all their skills, God love them! Made me wonder how I ever killed any deer with my fusee before! Then had a Red Drifter (Red Fox) come by. I squeaked with my mouth and he about jumped out of his skin and ran off a hundred yards. I kept squeaking with my mouth and he showed up all of a sudden only 25 yards right in front of me. Couldn't lift my gun to get a shot. He finally winded me too. Saw about a 100 pheasant and went home completely happy with a wonderful high quality hunt! I'm gonna go back and set some steel for the Red Drifters back there and pick up a few of them. I bet the pheasants won't thank me when I'm done! Good luck on the trail. BB ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: White Arian Brotherhood Date: 01 Nov 2003 21:15:13 EST Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/1/2003 4:17:54 PM Pacific Standard Time, NaugaMok@aol.com writes: Did ya really have to insult the cockroaches??? LMFAO NM Barney Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML><HEAD> <META charset=3DUTF-8 http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charse= t=3Dutf-8"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1264" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff= f"> <DIV> <DIV>In a message dated 11/1/2003 4:17:54 PM Pacific Standard Time, NaugaMok= @aol.com writes:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20= 2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>Did ya really have to insult the cockroaches??= ?</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#000080>LMFAO NM</FONT></S= TRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#000080></FONT></STRONG>&n= bsp;</DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#000080>Barney</FONT></STR= ONG></DIV></BODY></HTML> ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" <admiller@citynet.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: White Arian Brotherhood & Dogs! Date: 01 Nov 2003 21:24:14 -0500 >>I hate German Shepherds and those Irish Setters!!!... HEY!! Watch what you say about the Irish!! *grins* Ad Miller ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: NaugaMok@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Not Making Meat! Date: 01 Nov 2003 21:26:49 EST --part1_b6.245f952d.2cd5c569_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/1/2003 6:02:28 PM Pacific Standard Time, beaverboy@sofast.net writes: > Saw about a 100 pheasant and went home completely happy > with a wonderful high quality hunt! > Good for you! A lot of people mistakenly equate hunting to killing. I love to hunt, but only kill when I need to or get a shot so perfect I just can't turn it down. Nauga Mok --part1_b6.245f952d.2cd5c569_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE= =3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">In a message dated 11/1/2003 6:02:28 PM Pacific Standa= rd Time, beaverboy@sofast.net writes:<BR> <BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2= FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT= : 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Saw about a 100 pheasant and we= nt home completely happy<BR> with a wonderful high quality hunt!<BR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D3= FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"><BR> Good for you! A lot of people mistakenly equate hunting to killing.&nb= sp; I love to hunt, but only kill when I need to or get a shot so perfect I=20= just can't turn it down.<BR> <BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D4= FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT" FACE=3D"Mistral" LANG=3D"0">Nauga Mok</FONT></HTML> --part1_b6.245f952d.2cd5c569_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Larry" <L.Renney@bresnan.net> Subject: MtMan-List: winter camps and gear Date: 01 Nov 2003 19:59:47 -0700 Being a new pilgrim, I would like to get it right the first time. Once hunting season is over, I plan on making new gear, and repairing old gear. What type of gear do I need for winter camps? I know I need to make some wool pants and winter mocs. did they have long underwear in the 1800's? I know I need to layer, but what do you suggest besides my shirt and capote? What do you use to sleep in? how many wool blankets would it take, or is there a better way? We can expect 40 below here in Montana, and I would rather be prepared. Larry ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Double Edge Forge" <deforge1@bright.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: White Arian Brotherhood Date: 01 Nov 2003 22:17:13 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C3A0C5.E68B5BC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable May I suggeest kindly that this bitch be tossed from whatever list she = is on??? D ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Lanney Ratcliff=20 To: Danney Ratcliff=20 Cc: scalpdance ; History List ; AMM=20 Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 7:30 AM Subject: MtMan-List: Fw: White Arian Brotherhood Here is my response to one Ms Pauline Schneider who posted me with the = little message appended below my response. Anybody know this person? ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Lanney Ratcliff=20 To: Pauline Schneider=20 Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 6:26 AM Subject: Re: White Arian Brotherhood Yes ma'am I do hate nazis and all of their ilk........without apology = to you or anybody else. You don't know a God damned thing about me and = your opinion is of no value to me at all. I will tell you this. My = father died from the being shot with a German machine gun in a war = against nazis and that's enough personal reason for me to hate them. As = for everybody having a good reason to hate the nazis there was that = little matter of herr hitler coming closer than we realize to destroying = the world. Oh, one more thing......the millions who died in nazi death = camps murdered by nazis trying to scourge the world of non aryans could = be another reason. Need I go on? I could, but I'm sick of this. However, that's all I hate, with the exception of cockroaches which = are pretty much the same as nazis. I don't know who you are and don't = care to know. I am adding you to my "blocked senders" list and anything = else from you will go immediately to my delete file. =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Pauline Schneider=20 To: lanneyratcliff@charter.net=20 Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 11:51 PM Subject: White Arian Brotherhood Sounds like you are just as full of hate has they are. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C3A0C5.E68B5BC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>May I suggeest kindly that this bitch = be tossed=20 from whatever list she is on???</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>D</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Dlanneyratcliff@charter.net=20 href=3D"mailto:lanneyratcliff@charter.net">Lanney Ratcliff</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3Dd-ratcliff@sbcglobal.net=20 href=3D"mailto:d-ratcliff@sbcglobal.net">Danney Ratcliff</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A = title=3Dscalpdance@yahoogroups.com=20 href=3D"mailto:scalpdance@yahoogroups.com">scalpdance</A> ; <A=20 title=3Dhist_text@xmission.com = href=3D"mailto:hist_text@xmission.com">History=20 List</A> ; <A title=3Dammlist@xmission.com=20 href=3D"mailto:ammlist@xmission.com">AMM</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, November 01, = 2003 7:30=20 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> MtMan-List: Fw: White = Arian=20 Brotherhood</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Here is my response to = one Ms Pauline=20 Schneider who posted me with the little message appended below my=20 response. Anybody know this person?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----=20 <DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A=20 title=3Dlanneyratcliff@charter.net=20 href=3D"mailto:lanneyratcliff@charter.net">Lanney Ratcliff</A> </DIV> <DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dpjes@comcast.net=20 href=3D"mailto:pjes@comcast.net">Pauline Schneider</A> </DIV> <DIV><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, November 01, 2003 6:26 AM</DIV> <DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: White Arian Brotherhood</DIV></DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Yes ma'am I do hate nazis = and all of=20 their ilk........without apology to you or anybody else. = You don't=20 know a God damned thing about me and your opinion is of no = value to=20 me at all. I will tell you this. My father died from the = being=20 shot with a German machine gun in a war against nazis and that's = enough=20 personal reason for me to hate them. As for everybody = having a=20 good reason to hate the nazis there was that little matter of = herr hitler=20 coming closer than we realize to destroying the world. Oh, = one more=20 thing......the millions who died in nazi death camps murdered by = nazis=20 trying to scourge the world of non aryans could be another = reason. =20 Need I go on? I could, but I'm sick of this.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>However, that's all I = hate, with the=20 exception of cockroaches which are pretty much the same as nazis. = I=20 don't know who you are and don't care to know. I am adding you = to my=20 "blocked senders" list and anything else from you will go immediately = to my=20 delete file. </FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Dpjes@comcast.net href=3D"mailto:pjes@comcast.net">Pauline = Schneider</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3Dlanneyratcliff@charter.net=20 = href=3D"mailto:lanneyratcliff@charter.net">lanneyratcliff@charter.net</A>= =20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, October 31, = 2003 11:51=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> White Arian = Brotherhood</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sounds like you are just as full of = hate has=20 they are.</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C3A0C5.E68B5BC0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Double Edge Forge" <deforge1@bright.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: White Arian Brotherhood Date: 01 Nov 2003 22:17:13 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C3A0C5.E68B5BC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable May I suggeest kindly that this bitch be tossed from whatever list she = is on??? D ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Lanney Ratcliff=20 To: Danney Ratcliff=20 Cc: scalpdance ; History List ; AMM=20 Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 7:30 AM Subject: MtMan-List: Fw: White Arian Brotherhood Here is my response to one Ms Pauline Schneider who posted me with the = little message appended below my response. Anybody know this person? ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Lanney Ratcliff=20 To: Pauline Schneider=20 Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 6:26 AM Subject: Re: White Arian Brotherhood Yes ma'am I do hate nazis and all of their ilk........without apology = to you or anybody else. You don't know a God damned thing about me and = your opinion is of no value to me at all. I will tell you this. My = father died from the being shot with a German machine gun in a war = against nazis and that's enough personal reason for me to hate them. As = for everybody having a good reason to hate the nazis there was that = little matter of herr hitler coming closer than we realize to destroying = the world. Oh, one more thing......the millions who died in nazi death = camps murdered by nazis trying to scourge the world of non aryans could = be another reason. Need I go on? I could, but I'm sick of this. However, that's all I hate, with the exception of cockroaches which = are pretty much the same as nazis. I don't know who you are and don't = care to know. I am adding you to my "blocked senders" list and anything = else from you will go immediately to my delete file. =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Pauline Schneider=20 To: lanneyratcliff@charter.net=20 Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 11:51 PM Subject: White Arian Brotherhood Sounds like you are just as full of hate has they are. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C3A0C5.E68B5BC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>May I suggeest kindly that this bitch = be tossed=20 from whatever list she is on???</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>D</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Dlanneyratcliff@charter.net=20 href=3D"mailto:lanneyratcliff@charter.net">Lanney Ratcliff</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3Dd-ratcliff@sbcglobal.net=20 href=3D"mailto:d-ratcliff@sbcglobal.net">Danney Ratcliff</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A = title=3Dscalpdance@yahoogroups.com=20 href=3D"mailto:scalpdance@yahoogroups.com">scalpdance</A> ; <A=20 title=3Dhist_text@xmission.com = href=3D"mailto:hist_text@xmission.com">History=20 List</A> ; <A title=3Dammlist@xmission.com=20 href=3D"mailto:ammlist@xmission.com">AMM</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, November 01, = 2003 7:30=20 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> MtMan-List: Fw: White = Arian=20 Brotherhood</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Here is my response to = one Ms Pauline=20 Schneider who posted me with the little message appended below my=20 response. Anybody know this person?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----=20 <DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A=20 title=3Dlanneyratcliff@charter.net=20 href=3D"mailto:lanneyratcliff@charter.net">Lanney Ratcliff</A> </DIV> <DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dpjes@comcast.net=20 href=3D"mailto:pjes@comcast.net">Pauline Schneider</A> </DIV> <DIV><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, November 01, 2003 6:26 AM</DIV> <DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: White Arian Brotherhood</DIV></DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Yes ma'am I do hate nazis = and all of=20 their ilk........without apology to you or anybody else. = You don't=20 know a God damned thing about me and your opinion is of no = value to=20 me at all. I will tell you this. My father died from the = being=20 shot with a German machine gun in a war against nazis and that's = enough=20 personal reason for me to hate them. As for everybody = having a=20 good reason to hate the nazis there was that little matter of = herr hitler=20 coming closer than we realize to destroying the world. Oh, = one more=20 thing......the millions who died in nazi death camps murdered by = nazis=20 trying to scourge the world of non aryans could be another = reason. =20 Need I go on? I could, but I'm sick of this.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>However, that's all I = hate, with the=20 exception of cockroaches which are pretty much the same as nazis. = I=20 don't know who you are and don't care to know. I am adding you = to my=20 "blocked senders" list and anything else from you will go immediately = to my=20 delete file. </FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Dpjes@comcast.net href=3D"mailto:pjes@comcast.net">Pauline = Schneider</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3Dlanneyratcliff@charter.net=20 = href=3D"mailto:lanneyratcliff@charter.net">lanneyratcliff@charter.net</A>= =20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, October 31, = 2003 11:51=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> White Arian = Brotherhood</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sounds like you are just as full of = hate has=20 they are.</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C3A0C5.E68B5BC0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pat Quilter <pat_quilter@qscaudio.com> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: winter camps and gear Date: 01 Nov 2003 19:40:33 -0800 Hello Larry I am sure you will get better advice from those with "real" winter experience - I have only slept out to maybe 20 degrees F (-ie hard frost and frozen buckets). First off, no mountain man "willingly" camps in -40 weather - this would be a full-on survival emergency. Find the very best sheltered area, heap up a BIG pile of wood, and be prepared to keep your fire going all night. (Remember to avoid building under snow-laden trees). To avoid all this inconvenience, mountain men found somewhat more hospitable areas to winter over in, with cabins or tipis for shelter. For "reasonable" weather (down to zero, maybe?), you will need 2-3 good wool blankets, a windbreaker such as canvas or buffalo robe, and some kind of ground cloth or equivalent. You will presumbably sleep in your warm clothes. You will need to choose your campsite carefully, make a good bed of boughs or brush to insulate from the ground, and have a fire going. I have found that a buffalo robe is worth at least 2 good wool blankets, although heavier and less useful if wet. Also, in Lewis Garrard's journal, he notes that once the weather turned freezing, mountain men commonly paired up to share warmth and double their bedroll. There is an episode that implies they followed the natural practice of keeping their head under the covers when cold enough - although this will cause some moisture to collect. I think opinions vary on long underwear although it is very useful and frequently seen today. The original guys definitely wanted wool underneath if they could get it. An insulating layer topped with a wind-breaker (leather) layer should keep you warm. As you know, winter mocassins are the tough part - journals report all kinds of improvised stuffings, wool linings, winter mocassins of fur if available, etc. The main thing is to avoid getting wet, and if it happens, get yourself dried out with a good fire before sleeping. If it gets REALLY cold, you will be waking up shivering to tend your fire. It will be a long night but you will survive. As far as your gear goes, stick to the materials that were available (wool and leather), use your common sense, and go out with experienced people to learn and lend assistance if necessary. Good luck Pat Quilter -----Original Message----- Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 7:00 PM Being a new pilgrim, I would like to get it right the first time. Once hunting season is over, I plan on making new gear, and repairing old gear. What type of gear do I need for winter camps? I know I need to make some wool pants and winter mocs. did they have long underwear in the 1800's? I know I need to layer, but what do you suggest besides my shirt and capote? What do you use to sleep in? how many wool blankets would it take, or is there a better way? We can expect 40 below here in Montana, and I would rather be prepared. Larry ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Fred Miller <fmiller@lightlink.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: White Arian Brotherhood Date: 01 Nov 2003 23:28:30 -0500 On Saturday 01 November 2003 12:07 pm, MdntRdr1@aol.com wrote: > Maybe I missed it, but how did a list about the Mountain Men get onto the > subject of methhead idiots who are usually classified in the "Universally > Stupid and Worthless" category? 'Considered of less value than pond scum. Fred -- "...Linux, MS-DOS, and Windows XP (also known as the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly)." ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: winter camps and gear Date: 02 Nov 2003 00:05:31 EST --part1_194.20c4f4ca.2cd5ea9b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Howdy Larry you asked What type of gear do I need for winter camps? I know I need to make some wool pants and winter mocs. did they have long underwear in the 1800's? I know I need to layer, but what do you suggest besides my shirt and capote? What do you use to sleep in? how many wool blankets would it take, or is there a better way? We can expect 40 below here in Montana, and I would rather be prepared. This is what I use for winter doin's here in Idaho. As for wool pants not this child I use my leather pantaloons narrow falls style made of buckskin or a set of narrow fall knee Breeches with buckskin leggins over them. I do wear a pair of wool blanket boatas on the out side to keep my lower legs dry in snow. As for underwear they did have what was called under drawers. Mine are made of wool they are high waisted with a buttoned up front and have a draw string in the back like pantaloons and breeches have. For the top half, my shirts are drop sleeve. I have them made out of cotton, linen, fustian, wool and flannel, depending on the temp I can layer up to keep warm. Over the shirts I have a wool short wasted vest that I wear, of the style of the early 1800s. This has been a very useful item to my outfit for it adds warmth where ya need it. For a coat my leather frock coat is all I use. Some do use capotes but I do not and there has only been a few times that I wanted more on as a rule this been when I was not moving a round much so a blanket warped around me has worked for me. I am of the type that stays worm do not have to ware a lot to keep warm. On my head I use my beaver felt hat if my ears start to get cold I sometimes tie a scarf on my head to help keep the ears warm under my hat. When it comes to sleeping in the winter there is one thing to remember is you need as much if not more under you as you do over you. Come rob season there is only one thing to remember and that is buffalo. A good robe is worth four blankets when it come to warmth. I use two good heavy wool blankets and buffalo robe if it is going to get below 0 I will add another blanket and another hide with hair on to put under me with the ground cloth. This all makes for a good load to get in to camp that is where a toboggan comes in handy. Hope this helps Crazy Cyot --part1_194.20c4f4ca.2cd5ea9b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>Howdy Larry <BR> <BR>you asked=20 <BR> <BR>What type of gear do I need for winter camps? I know I need to make some <BR>wool pants and winter mocs. did they have long underwear in the 1800's?=20= I <BR>know I need to layer, but what do you suggest besides my shirt and capot= e? <BR>What do you use to sleep in? how many wool blankets would it take,= or is <BR>there a better way? We can expect 40 below here in Montana, and I=20= would <BR>rather be prepared. <BR>=20 <BR>This is what I use for winter doin's here in Idaho. <BR>As for wool pants not this child I use my leather pantaloons narrow fall= s style made of buckskin or a set of narrow fall knee Breeches with buckskin= leggins over them.=20 <BR>I do wear a pair of wool blanket boatas on the out side to keep my lower= legs dry in snow. As for underwear they did have what was called under draw= ers. Mine are made of wool they are high waisted with a buttoned up front an= d have a draw string in the back like pantaloons and breeches have.</FONT><F= ONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"= 0"> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Ar= ial" LANG=3D"0">For the top half, my shirts are drop sleeve. I have them mad= e out of cotton, linen, fustian, wool and flannel, depending on the temp I c= an layer up to keep warm. <BR>Over the shirts I have a wool short wasted vest that I wear, of the styl= e of the early 1800s. This has been a very useful item to my outfit for it a= dds warmth where ya need it. For a coat my leather frock coat is all I use.=20= Some do use capotes but I do not and there has only been a few times that I=20= wanted more on as a rule this been when I was not moving a round much so a b= lanket warped around me has worked for me. I am of the type that stays worm=20= do not have to ware a lot to keep warm. On my head I use my beaver felt hat=20= if my ears start to get cold I sometimes tie a scarf on my head to help keep= the ears warm under my hat.</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY= =3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Ar= ial" LANG=3D"0">When it comes to sleeping in the winter there is one thing t= o remember is you need as much if not more under you as you do over you. Com= e rob season there is only one thing to remember and that is buffalo. A good= robe is worth four blankets when it come to warmth. I use two good heavy wo= ol blankets and buffalo robe if it is going to get below 0 I will add anothe= r blanket and another hide with hair on to put under me with the ground clot= h. This all makes for a good load to get in to camp that is where a toboggan= comes in handy.=20 <BR>Hope this helps <BR>Crazy Cyot <BR> <BR> <BR> </FONT></HTML> --part1_194.20c4f4ca.2cd5ea9b_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <lanneyratcliff@charter.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: winter camps and gear Date: 01 Nov 2003 23:27:04 -0600 Larry Pat's advice is good, especially the part about insulating yourself from the ground (or snow) and combining bedrolls with another camper and bunking together. You will have the advantage of a doubled bedroll and the body heat of the other person. I am a large man and find myself pretty popular on cold nights. I have the metabolism (and thus the body heat) of a 300 lb shrew so I pretty much radiate heat. So be nice to us big guys. I have camped in chilly weather but not as cold as what you will find in Montana. However, I have slept under a diamond fly 15 miles from my home in Texas with the over night temp down to +6 F which is pretty cold and stayed as warm as a box full of puppies. After being sure you have a GOOD bedroll, two things I recommend in moderately cold weather is (1) sleep with your mocs tucked up under you or in your shirt if you choose not to wear them while you sleep. Makes 'em easy to find when you need them.....and they will probably be warm and dry by morning (2) wear a good warm head covering. I tie on a silk scarf "pirate style" and cover that with a good wool pull-over cap, pulled over my face if necessary. Since my cold weather experience is limited to above zero temps somebody else will have to advise you about really cold weather camping. I don't drink much coffee or even water for a good while before turning in. That way you have a better chance of making it though the night without having to crawl out of you warm bedroll in the middle of a cold night to answer a call of nature. Eating a chunk of sugar is said to kick up your metabolism and will make you warmer from the inside out. I am diabetic and wouldn't know much about eating chunks of sugar at any time of day but I have heard others swear by this trick. good luck Lanney Ratcliff ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 9:40 PM > Hello Larry > > I am sure you will get better advice from those with "real" winter > experience - I have only slept out to maybe 20 degrees F (-ie hard frost and > frozen buckets). > > First off, no mountain man "willingly" camps in -40 weather - this would be > a full-on survival emergency. Find the very best sheltered area, heap up a > BIG pile of wood, and be prepared to keep your fire going all night. > (Remember to avoid building under snow-laden trees). To avoid all this > inconvenience, mountain men found somewhat more hospitable areas to winter > over in, with cabins or tipis for shelter. > > For "reasonable" weather (down to zero, maybe?), you will need 2-3 good wool > blankets, a windbreaker such as canvas or buffalo robe, and some kind of > ground cloth or equivalent. You will presumbably sleep in your warm clothes. > You will need to choose your campsite carefully, make a good bed of boughs > or brush to insulate from the ground, and have a fire going. I have found > that a buffalo robe is worth at least 2 good wool blankets, although heavier > and less useful if wet. Also, in Lewis Garrard's journal, he notes that once > the weather turned freezing, mountain men commonly paired up to share warmth > and double their bedroll. There is an episode that implies they followed the > natural practice of keeping their head under the covers when cold enough - > although this will cause some moisture to collect. > > I think opinions vary on long underwear although it is very useful and > frequently seen today. The original guys definitely wanted wool underneath > if they could get it. An insulating layer topped with a wind-breaker > (leather) layer should keep you warm. As you know, winter mocassins are the > tough part - journals report all kinds of improvised stuffings, wool > linings, winter mocassins of fur if available, etc. > > The main thing is to avoid getting wet, and if it happens, get yourself > dried out with a good fire before sleeping. If it gets REALLY cold, you will > be waking up shivering to tend your fire. It will be a long night but you > will survive. As far as your gear goes, stick to the materials that were > available (wool and leather), use your common sense, and go out with > experienced people to learn and lend assistance if necessary. > > Good luck > Pat Quilter > > -----Original Message----- > From: Larry [mailto:L.Renney@bresnan.net] > Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 7:00 PM > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: MtMan-List: winter camps and gear > > > > > Being a new pilgrim, I would like to get it right the first time. Once > hunting season is over, I plan on making new gear, and repairing old gear. > What type of gear do I need for winter camps? I know I need to make some > wool pants and winter mocs. did they have long underwear in the 1800's? I > know I need to layer, but what do you suggest besides my shirt and capote? > What do you use to sleep in? how many wool blankets would it take, or is > there a better way? We can expect 40 below here in Montana, and I would > rather be prepared. > Larry > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James and Sue Stone <jandsstone@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: winter camps and gear Date: 01 Nov 2003 22:38:14 -0700 Larry, Pat's got good advice. What I would do to hedge my bets (necessary in -40 wx) would be take some of what you usually camp with in those kind of temps that you know works. Even if you leave it in the truck, have it where you can get to it if necessary. Trial and error is a great way to learn, but not if you die while learning you made an error! Sparks Pat Quilter wrote: >Hello Larry > >I am sure you will get better advice from those with "real" winter >experience - I have only slept out to maybe 20 degrees F (-ie hard frost and >frozen buckets). > >First off, no mountain man "willingly" camps in -40 weather - this would be >a full-on survival emergency. Find the very best sheltered area, heap up a >BIG pile of wood, and be prepared to keep your fire going all night. >(Remember to avoid building under snow-laden trees). To avoid all this >inconvenience, mountain men found somewhat more hospitable areas to winter >over in, with cabins or tipis for shelter. > >For "reasonable" weather (down to zero, maybe?), you will need 2-3 good wool >blankets, a windbreaker such as canvas or buffalo robe, and some kind of >ground cloth or equivalent. You will presumbably sleep in your warm clothes. >You will need to choose your campsite carefully, make a good bed of boughs >or brush to insulate from the ground, and have a fire going. I have found >that a buffalo robe is worth at least 2 good wool blankets, although heavier >and less useful if wet. Also, in Lewis Garrard's journal, he notes that once >the weather turned freezing, mountain men commonly paired up to share warmth >and double their bedroll. There is an episode that implies they followed the >natural practice of keeping their head under the covers when cold enough - >although this will cause some moisture to collect. > >I think opinions vary on long underwear although it is very useful and >frequently seen today. The original guys definitely wanted wool underneath >if they could get it. An insulating layer topped with a wind-breaker >(leather) layer should keep you warm. As you know, winter mocassins are the >tough part - journals report all kinds of improvised stuffings, wool >linings, winter mocassins of fur if available, etc. > >The main thing is to avoid getting wet, and if it happens, get yourself >dried out with a good fire before sleeping. If it gets REALLY cold, you will >be waking up shivering to tend your fire. It will be a long night but you >will survive. As far as your gear goes, stick to the materials that were >available (wool and leather), use your common sense, and go out with >experienced people to learn and lend assistance if necessary. > >Good luck >Pat Quilter > >-----Original Message----- >From: Larry [mailto:L.Renney@bresnan.net] >Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 7:00 PM >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: MtMan-List: winter camps and gear > > > > >Being a new pilgrim, I would like to get it right the first time. Once >hunting season is over, I plan on making new gear, and repairing old gear. >What type of gear do I need for winter camps? I know I need to make some >wool pants and winter mocs. did they have long underwear in the 1800's? I >know I need to layer, but what do you suggest besides my shirt and capote? >What do you use to sleep in? how many wool blankets would it take, or is >there a better way? We can expect 40 below here in Montana, and I would >rather be prepared. >Larry > > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: winter camps and gear Date: 02 Nov 2003 05:11:27 EST --part1_5b.40e919f0.2cd6324f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Larry Lanney and Pat had some good ideas. I do use shared body heat most of the time myself but I am lucky in the fact that when I do it is with Jill and I do not have to put up with as much of the snoring that some of the Brothers do at night. I have heard of some using the hot rock trick but ya can get the rocks to hot and burn stuff. Plus Montana is like Idaho and as a rule when ya want to try and use hot rocks they are usually under a lot of snow. Here is something I've seen done by a few that seems to work well for them they poor their water out of their canteen in to a pot and bring it to a boil and poor it back in to there canteen and tie a rag around it so the cork cannot come out and use it as a hot water bottle. Of cores you what to make sure it will not leek and only do this with a copper or tin canteens. The coldest night I have been out on the ground was around -45 and I have done several -15 and lower. When it this cold never brake a sweat and do not go to bed wet have dry mocs or socks to put on to go to bed with. I have never been able to keep a hat on at night when I sleep so I make my bed so I can have one of the wool blanket that I can pull up over my head when I sleep. You get to breath warm air and it helps to keep your body heat in your bed where you want it. As for this putting moisture in your bed as long as you do not pull an oil cloth over your head with it I have not noticed this to be a problem and this is with two of use in the same bed doing the same thing. The only place where I have noticed any moisture is the spot where my breath has been hitting the blanket and is a spot of only a couple of inches in diameter and that is all. As for keeping a fire going all night if you have to do this you do not have enough bedding and it is time to add to your bed roll is what I think. As a rule I sleep a ways away form the fire pit any way hot sparks and oil cloth do not go well together. If you have enough under you as in oil cloth and buff hide or hair on elk or sheep skins and blankets plus your bedding folded under you, you should not have to build a nest of pine bows and such. Any way I have only built a nest once and that was on one of my first primitive winter camp after that I learned how to put my bed roll together so it had enough insulation built in under me so I can lay it out on top of the snow and be just fine. The worst thing that can happen is to be camped in deep snow and have it warm up and start to rain then you have got problems big time. So long as it stays below freezing and you stay dry you will be fine so long as you are prepared for the cold that is. I have read of Mountain Men wintering in Cache Valley and here in the Snake River Valley both these places see a lot of snow and cold well below 0 so they did not always winter in warmer places. If they could they did get ready for winter so they would have had enough buff hides to keep them warm at night and they did try to spend as much time as they could in one place come winter so a tipi or cabin was built at times but there were times when they had to move camp in winter and they did not have these luxuries also. When I do my winter camps I think of myself as one doing just this for on snow shoes and pulling toboggans this is a man on the move and the way I do my winter camps. Any way Larry if you want to see some pictures from some of our winter camps there are some on my web site and on this other site a good article on winter camping for women that also gives some information that can help any one doing winter camps. Ya might want to take a look. From what I've seen and heard every ones does it a little different and you just need to find out what works best for you. See ya on the trail Crazy Cyot <A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/gazingcyot/id7.htm">http://members.tripod.com/gazingcyot/id7.htm</A> <A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/womenofthefurtrade/id3.htm">http://members.tripod.com/womenofthefurtrade/id3.htm</A> --part1_5b.40e919f0.2cd6324f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>Larry=20 <BR>Lanney and Pat had some good ideas. <BR> I do use shared body heat most of the time myself but I am lucky in the= fact that when I do it is with Jill and I do not have to put up with as muc= h of the snoring that some of the Brothers do at night. <BR>I have heard of some using the hot rock trick but ya can get the rocks t= o hot and burn stuff. Plus Montana is like Idaho and as a rule when ya want=20= to try and use hot rocks they are usually under a lot of snow. Here is somet= hing I've seen done by a few that seems to work well for them they poor thei= r water out of their canteen in to a pot and bring it to a boil and poor it=20= back in to there canteen and tie a rag around it so the cork cannot come out= and use it as a hot water bottle. Of cores you what to make sure it will no= t leek and only do this with a copper or tin canteens.=20 <BR>The coldest night I have been out on the ground was around -45 and I hav= e done several -15 and lower. When it this cold never brake a sweat and do n= ot go to bed wet have dry mocs or socks to put on to go to bed with. <BR> I have never been able to keep a hat on at night when I sleep so I make= my bed so I can have one of the wool blanket that I can pull up over my hea= d when I sleep. You get to breath warm air and it helps to keep your body he= at in your bed where you want it. <BR>As for this putting moisture in your bed as long as you do not pull an o= il cloth over your head with it I have not noticed this to be a problem and=20= this is with two of use in the same bed doing the same thing. The only place= where I have noticed any moisture is the spot where my breath has been hitt= ing the blanket and is a spot of only a couple of inches in diameter and tha= t is all. <BR>As for keeping a fire going all night if you have to do this you do not=20= have enough bedding and it is time to add to your bed roll is what I think.=20= As a rule I sleep a ways away form the fire pit any way hot sparks and oil c= loth do not go well together. <BR> If you have enough under you as in oil cloth and buff hide or hair on e= lk or sheep skins and blankets plus your bedding folded under you, you shoul= d not have to build a nest of pine bows and such. Any way I have only built=20= a nest once and that was on one of my first primitive winter camp after that= I learned how to put my bed roll together so it had enough insulation built= in under me so I can lay it out on top of the snow and be just fine.=20 <BR>The worst thing that can happen is to be camped in deep snow and have it= warm up and start to rain then you have got problems big time. So long as i= t stays below freezing and you stay dry you will be fine so long as you are=20= prepared for the cold that is. <BR>I have read of Mountain Men wintering in Cache Valley and here in the Sn= ake River Valley both these places see a lot of snow and cold well below 0 s= o they did not always winter in warmer places. <BR>If they could they did get ready for winter so they would have had enoug= h buff hides to keep them warm at night and they did try to spend as much ti= me as they could in one place come winter so a tipi or cabin was built at ti= mes but there were times when they had to move camp in winter and they did n= ot have these luxuries also.=20 <BR>When I do my winter camps I think of myself as one doing just this for o= n snow shoes and pulling toboggans this is a man on the move and the way I d= o my winter camps. <BR>Any way Larry if you want to see some pictures from some of our winter c= amps there are some on my web site and on this other site a good article on=20= winter camping for women that also gives some information that can help any=20= one doing winter camps. Ya might want to take a look. From what I've seen an= d heard every ones does it a little different and you just need to find out=20= what works best for you. <BR>See ya on the trail <BR>Crazy Cyot <BR><A HREF=3D"http://members.tripod.com/gazingcyot/id7.htm">http://members.= tripod.com/gazingcyot/id7.htm</A> <BR><A HREF=3D"http://members.tripod.com/womenofthefurtrade/id3.htm">http://= members.tripod.com/womenofthefurtrade/id3.htm</A> <BR> <BR></FONT></HTML> --part1_5b.40e919f0.2cd6324f_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: palmer@netdor.com (Palmer Schatell) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: White Arian Brotherhood Date: 02 Nov 2003 07:54:58 -0500 Sir: You are mistaken. Pond scum and these mental and moral defectives can be used as fertilizer. Don't forget, no one is totally useless. The worst of us can all ways serve as horrible examples. Tres Coupe ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 11:28 PM > On Saturday 01 November 2003 12:07 pm, MdntRdr1@aol.com wrote: > > Maybe I missed it, but how did a list about the Mountain Men get onto the > > subject of methhead idiots who are usually classified in the "Universally > > Stupid and Worthless" category? > > 'Considered of less value than pond scum. > > Fred > > -- > "...Linux, MS-DOS, and Windows XP (also known as the Good, the Bad, and > the Ugly)." > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sean Boushie" <flintlocknfur@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: winter camps and gear Date: 02 Nov 2003 14:27:11 +0000 Another Montana man! Whare do you hail from larry? I'm In Stevensville. >From: "Larry" <L.Renney@bresnan.net> >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> >Subject: MtMan-List: winter camps and gear >Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 19:59:47 -0700 > > > >Being a new pilgrim, I would like to get it right the first time. Once >hunting season is over, I plan on making new gear, and repairing old gear. >What type of gear do I need for winter camps? I know I need to make some >wool pants and winter mocs. did they have long underwear in the 1800's? I >know I need to layer, but what do you suggest besides my shirt and capote? >What do you use to sleep in? how many wool blankets would it take, or is >there a better way? We can expect 40 below here in Montana, and I would >rather be prepared. >Larry > > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html _________________________________________________________________ Fretting that your Hotmail account may expire because you forgot to sign in enough? Get Hotmail Extra Storage today! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ole Jensen <olebjensen@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: winter camps and gear Date: 02 Nov 2003 08:50:07 -0700 Larry, Get with your sponser or Brigade leader and they should point you in the right direction. Ole On Saturday, November 1, 2003, at 07:59 PM, Larry wrote: > > > Being a new pilgrim, I would like to get it right the first time. Once > hunting season is over, I plan on making new gear, and repairing old > gear. > What type of gear do I need for winter camps? I know I need to make > some > wool pants and winter mocs. did they have long underwear in the > 1800's? I > know I need to layer, but what do you suggest besides my shirt and > capote? > What do you use to sleep in? how many wool blankets would it take, or > is > there a better way? We can expect 40 below here in Montana, and I > would > rather be prepared. > Larry > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ole Jensen <olebjensen@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: winter camps and gear Date: 02 Nov 2003 09:08:26 -0700 --Apple-Mail-4--712206671 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Larry, Crazy is very experienced in winter and I can't think of anyone better to learn this skill from. Ole On Sunday, November 2, 2003, at 03:11 AM, GazeingCyot@cs.com wrote: > Larry > Lanney and Pat had some good ideas. > I do use shared body heat most of the time myself but I am lucky in > the fact that when I do it is with Jill and I do not have to put up > with as much of the snoring that some of the Brothers do at night. > I have heard of some using the hot rock trick but ya can get the rocks > to hot and burn stuff. Plus Montana is like Idaho and as a rule when > ya want to try and use hot rocks they are usually under a lot of snow. > Here is something I've seen done by a few that seems to work well for > them they poor their water out of their canteen in to a pot and bring > it to a boil and poor it back in to there canteen and tie a rag around > it so the cork cannot come out and use it as a hot water bottle. Of > cores you what to make sure it will not leek and only do this with a > copper or tin canteens. > The coldest night I have been out on the ground was around -45 and I > have done several -15 and lower. When it this cold never brake a sweat > and do not go to bed wet have dry mocs or socks to put on to go to bed > with. > I have never been able to keep a hat on at night when I sleep so I > make my bed so I can have one of the wool blanket that I can pull up > over my head when I sleep. You get to breath warm air and it helps to > keep your body heat in your bed where you want it. > As for this putting moisture in your bed as long as you do not pull an > oil cloth over your head with it I have not noticed this to be a > problem and this is with two of use in the same bed doing the same > thing. The only place where I have noticed any moisture is the spot > where my breath has been hitting the blanket and is a spot of only a > couple of inches in diameter and that is all. > As for keeping a fire going all night if you have to do this you do > not have enough bedding and it is time to add to your bed roll is what > I think. As a rule I sleep a ways away form the fire pit any way hot > sparks and oil cloth do not go well together. > If you have enough under you as in oil cloth and buff hide or hair on > elk or sheep skins and blankets plus your bedding folded under you, > you should not have to build a nest of pine bows and such. Any way I > have only built a nest once and that was on one of my first primitive > winter camp after that I learned how to put my bed roll together so it > had enough insulation built in under me so I can lay it out on top of > the snow and be just fine. > The worst thing that can happen is to be camped in deep snow and have > it warm up and start to rain then you have got problems big time. So > long as it stays below freezing and you stay dry you will be fine so > long as you are prepared for the cold that is. > I have read of Mountain Men wintering in Cache Valley and here in the > Snake River Valley both these places see a lot of snow and cold well > below 0 so they did not always winter in warmer places. > If they could they did get ready for winter so they would have had > enough buff hides to keep them warm at night and they did try to spend > as much time as they could in one place come winter so a tipi or cabin > was built at times but there were times when they had to move camp in > winter and they did not have these luxuries also. > When I do my winter camps I think of myself as one doing just this for > on snow shoes and pulling toboggans this is a man on the move and the > way I do my winter camps. > Any way Larry if you want to see some pictures from some of our winter > camps there are some on my web site and on this other site a good > article on winter camping for women that also gives some information > that can help any one doing winter camps. Ya might want to take a > look. From what I've seen and heard every ones does it a little > different and you just need to find out what works best for you. > See ya on the trail > Crazy Cyot > http://members.tripod.com/gazingcyot/id7.htm > http://members.tripod.com/womenofthefurtrade/id3.htm > --Apple-Mail-4--712206671 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII Larry, Crazy is very experienced in winter and I can't think of anyone better to learn this skill from. Ole On Sunday, November 2, 2003, at 03:11 AM, GazeingCyot@cs.com wrote: <excerpt><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>Larry Lanney and Pat had some good ideas. I do use shared body heat most of the time myself but I am lucky in the fact that when I do it is with Jill and I do not have to put up with as much of the snoring that some of the Brothers do at night. I have heard of some using the hot rock trick but ya can get the rocks to hot and burn stuff. Plus Montana is like Idaho and as a rule when ya want to try and use hot rocks they are usually under a lot of snow. Here is something I've seen done by a few that seems to work well for them they poor their water out of their canteen in to a pot and bring it to a boil and poor it back in to there canteen and tie a rag around it so the cork cannot come out and use it as a hot water bottle. Of cores you what to make sure it will not leek and only do this with a copper or tin canteens. The coldest night I have been out on the ground was around -45 and I have done several -15 and lower. When it this cold never brake a sweat and do not go to bed wet have dry mocs or socks to put on to go to bed with. I have never been able to keep a hat on at night when I sleep so I make my bed so I can have one of the wool blanket that I can pull up over my head when I sleep. You get to breath warm air and it helps to keep your body heat in your bed where you want it. As for this putting moisture in your bed as long as you do not pull an oil cloth over your head with it I have not noticed this to be a problem and this is with two of use in the same bed doing the same thing. The only place where I have noticed any moisture is the spot where my breath has been hitting the blanket and is a spot of only a couple of inches in diameter and that is all. As for keeping a fire going all night if you have to do this you do not have enough bedding and it is time to add to your bed roll is what I think. As a rule I sleep a ways away form the fire pit any way hot sparks and oil cloth do not go well together. If you have enough under you as in oil cloth and buff hide or hair on elk or sheep skins and blankets plus your bedding folded under you, you should not have to build a nest of pine bows and such. Any way I have only built a nest once and that was on one of my first primitive winter camp after that I learned how to put my bed roll together so it had enough insulation built in under me so I can lay it out on top of the snow and be just fine. The worst thing that can happen is to be camped in deep snow and have it warm up and start to rain then you have got problems big time. So long as it stays below freezing and you stay dry you will be fine so long as you are prepared for the cold that is. I have read of Mountain Men wintering in Cache Valley and here in the Snake River Valley both these places see a lot of snow and cold well below 0 so they did not always winter in warmer places. If they could they did get ready for winter so they would have had enough buff hides to keep them warm at night and they did try to spend as much time as they could in one place come winter so a tipi or cabin was built at times but there were times when they had to move camp in winter and they did not have these luxuries also. When I do my winter camps I think of myself as one doing just this for on snow shoes and pulling toboggans this is a man on the move and the way I do my winter camps. Any way Larry if you want to see some pictures from some of our winter camps there are some on my web site and on this other site a good article on winter camping for women that also gives some information that can help any one doing winter camps. Ya might want to take a look. From what I've seen and heard every ones does it a little different and you just need to find out what works best for you. See ya on the trail Crazy Cyot <underline><color><param>1999,1999,FFFF</param>http://members.tripod.com/gazingcyot/id7.htm http://members.tripod.com/womenofthefurtrade/id3.htm </color></underline></smaller></fontfamily></excerpt> --Apple-Mail-4--712206671-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: winter camps and gear Date: 02 Nov 2003 09:21:25 -0700 (MST) >Hey Larry! Nice trip down the Missouri we had! I had a great time with you guys. I prefer as many wool blankets as I can carry or care to carry. The layering effect helps a lot. This bed roll is all contained in my mantee cloth. You saw how I did it on the trip. I stay pretty dang warm in that bed. I haven't ever tried the coals under the bed or a chimney bed, yet! I have a bison robe but bison robes ain't all they are cracked up to be! The staff at Fort Union were all issued two robes for their personal use and of course they were staying inside of buildings that had fireplaces. Wool leggings are a good idea for winter pants. And several pairs of mocs so you can have a pair drying at anyone time. Trappers up here in our country just tried to stay warm and dry during the winter camp and feed their stock. Maybe an occasional beaver trapping trip to some open water if it could be found or a cattle hunt. The dead of winter in the far north was time to read books on loan from Fort Hall or other forts. Time to keep the fire burning and smoke the pipe as you repaired gear. The longer they spent in camp the nicer it got I'm sure, with the snow melting around the fire and them fixing it up some. This recent bitter cold snap and snow fall we have makes me wonder about the mettle of those tough men and latter pioneers that came up to this God forsaken wasteland. What drove these people?!!!! The good times are great! The bad times are terrible!! It must have been the good times! I'll be setting steel today for some long fur then after beaver tomorrow. Are you coming to hunting camp? Talk to you later Larry, Beaverboy > > Being a new pilgrim, I would like to get it right the first time. Once > hunting season is over, I plan on making new gear, and repairing old gear. > What type of gear do I need for winter camps? I know I need to make some > wool pants and winter mocs. did they have long underwear in the 1800's? I > know I need to layer, but what do you suggest besides my shirt and capote? > What do you use to sleep in? how many wool blankets would it take, or is > there a better way? We can expect 40 below here in Montana, and I would > rather be prepared. > Larry > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: winter camps and gear Date: 02 Nov 2003 09:26:07 -0700 (MST) Ole, I read Crazy's note around 3:30AM when I wake up every morning due to my fine work hours. I checked my mail and went back to bed. What I want to know is why Crazy is typing at 3:11AM!! He must be crazy! I planned on sleeping in today until 6:30AM! This will be the last time I can sleep in for five weeks or until I fill some tags! Lot easier getting up for a hunt then for work! Good luck down the trail! bb > Larry, > Crazy is very experienced in winter and I can't think of anyone better > to learn this skill from. > Ole > On Sunday, November 2, 2003, at 03:11 AM, GazeingCyot@cs.com wrote: > >> Larry >> Lanney and Pat had some good ideas. >> I do use shared body heat most of the time myself but I am lucky in >> the fact that when I do it is with Jill and I do not have to put up >> with as much of the snoring that some of the Brothers do at night. >> I have heard of some using the hot rock trick but ya can get the rocks >> to hot and burn stuff. Plus Montana is like Idaho and as a rule when >> ya want to try and use hot rocks they are usually under a lot of snow. >> Here is something I've seen done by a few that seems to work well for >> them they poor their water out of their canteen in to a pot and bring >> it to a boil and poor it back in to there canteen and tie a rag around >> it so the cork cannot come out and use it as a hot water bottle. Of >> cores you what to make sure it will not leek and only do this with a >> copper or tin canteens. >> The coldest night I have been out on the ground was around -45 and I >> have done several -15 and lower. When it this cold never brake a sweat >> and do not go to bed wet have dry mocs or socks to put on to go to bed >> with. >> I have never been able to keep a hat on at night when I sleep so I >> make my bed so I can have one of the wool blanket that I can pull up >> over my head when I sleep. You get to breath warm air and it helps to >> keep your body heat in your bed where you want it. >> As for this putting moisture in your bed as long as you do not pull an >> oil cloth over your head with it I have not noticed this to be a >> problem and this is with two of use in the same bed doing the same >> thing. The only place where I have noticed any moisture is the spot >> where my breath has been hitting the blanket and is a spot of only a >> couple of inches in diameter and that is all. >> As for keeping a fire going all night if you have to do this you do >> not have enough bedding and it is time to add to your bed roll is what >> I think. As a rule I sleep a ways away form the fire pit any way hot >> sparks and oil cloth do not go well together. >> If you have enough under you as in oil cloth and buff hide or hair on >> elk or sheep skins and blankets plus your bedding folded under you, >> you should not have to build a nest of pine bows and such. Any way I >> have only built a nest once and that was on one of my first primitive >> winter camp after that I learned how to put my bed roll together so it >> had enough insulation built in under me so I can lay it out on top of >> the snow and be just fine. >> The worst thing that can happen is to be camped in deep snow and have >> it warm up and start to rain then you have got problems big time. So >> long as it stays below freezing and you stay dry you will be fine so >> long as you are prepared for the cold that is. >> I have read of Mountain Men wintering in Cache Valley and here in the >> Snake River Valley both these places see a lot of snow and cold well >> below so they did not always winter in warmer places. >> If they could they did get ready for winter so they would have had >> enough buff hides to keep them warm at night and they did try to spend >> as much time as they could in one place come winter so a tipi or cabin >> was built at times but there were times when they had to move camp in >> winter and they did not have these luxuries also. >> When I do my winter camps I think of myself as one doing just this for >> on snow shoes and pulling toboggans this is a man on the move and the >> way I do my winter camps. >> Any way Larry if you want to see some pictures from some of our winter >> camps there are some on my web site and on this other site a good >> article on winter camping for women that also gives some information >> that can help any one doing winter camps. Ya might want to take a >> look. From what I've seen and heard every ones does it a little >> different and you just need to find out what works best for you. >> See ya on the trail >> Crazy Cyot >> http://members.tripod.com/gazingcyot/id7.htm >> http://members.tripod.com/womenofthefurtrade/id3.htm >> > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Frank Fusco" <Rifleman1776@cox-internet.com> Subject: MtMan-List: L&C rifles Date: 02 Nov 2003 11:08:36 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01C3A131.A99416F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The story was an Associated Press thing that I saw posted on Yahoo. Frank ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01C3A131.A99416F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1264" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV> The story was an Associated Press thing that I = saw=20 posted on Yahoo.</DIV> <DIV>Frank</DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01C3A131.A99416F0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Frank Fusco" <Rifleman1776@cox-internet.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Nazi talk Date: 02 Nov 2003 11:09:11 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C3A131.BE056580 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This definately is not the place for this discussion thread. Frank ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C3A131.BE056580 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1264" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV> This definately is not the place for this = discussion=20 thread.</DIV> <DIV>Frank</DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C3A131.BE056580-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Fred Miller <fmiller@lightlink.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: White Arian Brotherhood Date: 02 Nov 2003 12:11:02 -0500 On Sunday 02 November 2003 7:54 am, Palmer Schatell wrote: > Sir: > You are mistaken. Pond scum and these mental and moral defectives can be > used as fertilizer. Don't forget, no one is totally useless. The worst of > us can all ways serve as horrible examples. Sorry, I forgot - that's true. A good examply is Hillary. Fred -- "...Linux, MS-DOS, and Windows XP (also known as the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly)." ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Frank Fusco" <Rifleman1776@cox-internet.com> Subject: MtMan-List: cold weather camping Date: 02 Nov 2003 11:16:42 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01C3A132.CB3CEBF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 Those on this list have dedication to authenticity, however one = defines it, ranging from "don't care" to strict observance of what they = believe the RMFT guys did back then. Something not often discussed on this list is the fact that it was = very 'authentic' to die painful, gruesome and horrible deaths from many = things we routinely care for today with modern items. Freezing to death certainly is 'authentic'. As was pointed out, = below certain temperatures, simply being outside requires serious = survival techniques if one expects to wake up again. There comes a time when common sense must prevail over the desire to = prove one is 'authentic'. A tin-teepee with a heater or a cozy cabin is = much more appealing to my old bones than sleeping like a sled dog. Frank ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01C3A132.CB3CEBF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1264" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> =20 <DIV> Those on this list have dedication to = authenticity,=20 however one defines it, ranging from "don't care" to strict observance = of what=20 they believe the RMFT guys did back then.</DIV> <DIV> Something not often discussed on this list is = the fact=20 that it was very 'authentic' to die painful, gruesome and horrible = deaths from=20 many things we routinely care for today with modern items.</DIV> <DIV> Freezing to death certainly is 'authentic'. As = was=20 pointed out, below certain temperatures, simply being outside requires = serious=20 survival techniques if one expects to wake up again.</DIV> <DIV> There comes a time when common sense must = prevail over=20 the desire to prove one is 'authentic'. A tin-teepee with a heater or a = cozy=20 cabin is much more appealing to my old bones than sleeping like a sled=20 dog.</DIV> <DIV>Frank</DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01C3A132.CB3CEBF0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Candi Smith" <twostitch@archersminiatures.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: winter camps and gear Date: 02 Nov 2003 09:16:48 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C3A122.0B1632B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello to all, All have been discussing the use of buffalo robes as the best for = keeping warm in one's winter camp. My queation is this, where does one = obtain a buffalo robe without paying through the nose at some of the fur = traders to get one? Candi/Twostitch ----- Original Message -----=20 From: GazeingCyot@cs.com=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 2:11 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: winter camps and gear Larry=20 Lanney and Pat had some good ideas.=20 I do use shared body heat most of the time myself but I am lucky in = the fact that when I do it is with Jill and I do not have to put up with = as much of the snoring that some of the Brothers do at night.=20 I have heard of some using the hot rock trick but ya can get the rocks = to hot and burn stuff. Plus Montana is like Idaho and as a rule when ya = want to try and use hot rocks they are usually under a lot of snow. Here = is something I've seen done by a few that seems to work well for them = they poor their water out of their canteen in to a pot and bring it to a = boil and poor it back in to there canteen and tie a rag around it so the = cork cannot come out and use it as a hot water bottle. Of cores you what = to make sure it will not leek and only do this with a copper or tin = canteens.=20 The coldest night I have been out on the ground was around -45 and I = have done several -15 and lower. When it this cold never brake a sweat = and do not go to bed wet have dry mocs or socks to put on to go to bed = with.=20 I have never been able to keep a hat on at night when I sleep so I = make my bed so I can have one of the wool blanket that I can pull up = over my head when I sleep. You get to breath warm air and it helps to = keep your body heat in your bed where you want it.=20 As for this putting moisture in your bed as long as you do not pull an = oil cloth over your head with it I have not noticed this to be a problem = and this is with two of use in the same bed doing the same thing. The = only place where I have noticed any moisture is the spot where my breath = has been hitting the blanket and is a spot of only a couple of inches in = diameter and that is all.=20 As for keeping a fire going all night if you have to do this you do = not have enough bedding and it is time to add to your bed roll is what I = think. As a rule I sleep a ways away form the fire pit any way hot = sparks and oil cloth do not go well together.=20 If you have enough under you as in oil cloth and buff hide or hair on = elk or sheep skins and blankets plus your bedding folded under you, you = should not have to build a nest of pine bows and such. Any way I have = only built a nest once and that was on one of my first primitive winter = camp after that I learned how to put my bed roll together so it had = enough insulation built in under me so I can lay it out on top of the = snow and be just fine.=20 The worst thing that can happen is to be camped in deep snow and have = it warm up and start to rain then you have got problems big time. So = long as it stays below freezing and you stay dry you will be fine so = long as you are prepared for the cold that is.=20 I have read of Mountain Men wintering in Cache Valley and here in the = Snake River Valley both these places see a lot of snow and cold well = below 0 so they did not always winter in warmer places.=20 If they could they did get ready for winter so they would have had = enough buff hides to keep them warm at night and they did try to spend = as much time as they could in one place come winter so a tipi or cabin = was built at times but there were times when they had to move camp in = winter and they did not have these luxuries also.=20 When I do my winter camps I think of myself as one doing just this for = on snow shoes and pulling toboggans this is a man on the move and the = way I do my winter camps.=20 Any way Larry if you want to see some pictures from some of our winter = camps there are some on my web site and on this other site a good = article on winter camping for women that also gives some information = that can help any one doing winter camps. Ya might want to take a look. = From what I've seen and heard every ones does it a little different and = you just need to find out what works best for you.=20 See ya on the trail=20 Crazy Cyot=20 http://members.tripod.com/gazingcyot/id7.htm=20 http://members.tripod.com/womenofthefurtrade/id3.htm=20 ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C3A122.0B1632B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1264" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello to all,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>All have been discussing the use of = buffalo robes=20 as the best for keeping warm in one's winter camp. My queation is this, = where=20 does one obtain a buffalo robe without paying through the nose at some = of the=20 fur traders to get one?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Candi/Twostitch</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3DGazeingCyot@cs.com=20 href=3D"mailto:GazeingCyot@cs.com">GazeingCyot@cs.com</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3Dhist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 = href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com= </A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, November 02, 2003 = 2:11=20 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: winter = camps and=20 gear</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D2>Larry = <BR>Lanney and=20 Pat had some good ideas. <BR>I do use shared body heat most of the = time myself=20 but I am lucky in the fact that when I do it is with Jill and I do not = have to=20 put up with as much of the snoring that some of the Brothers do at = night.=20 <BR>I have heard of some using the hot rock trick but ya can get the = rocks to=20 hot and burn stuff. Plus Montana is like Idaho and as a rule when ya = want to=20 try and use hot rocks they are usually under a lot of snow. Here is = something=20 I've seen done by a few that seems to work well for them they poor = their water=20 out of their canteen in to a pot and bring it to a boil and poor it = back in to=20 there canteen and tie a rag around it so the cork cannot come out and = use it=20 as a hot water bottle. Of cores you what to make sure it will not leek = and=20 only do this with a copper or tin canteens. <BR>The coldest night I = have been=20 out on the ground was around -45 and I have done several -15 and = lower. When=20 it this cold never brake a sweat and do not go to bed wet have dry = mocs or=20 socks to put on to go to bed with. <BR>I have never been able to keep = a hat on=20 at night when I sleep so I make my bed so I can have one of the wool = blanket=20 that I can pull up over my head when I sleep. You get to breath warm = air and=20 it helps to keep your body heat in your bed where you want it. <BR>As = for this=20 putting moisture in your bed as long as you do not pull an oil cloth = over your=20 head with it I have not noticed this to be a problem and this is with = two of=20 use in the same bed doing the same thing. The only place where I have = noticed=20 any moisture is the spot where my breath has been hitting the blanket = and is a=20 spot of only a couple of inches in diameter and that is all. <BR>As = for=20 keeping a fire going all night if you have to do this you do not have = enough=20 bedding and it is time to add to your bed roll is what I think. As a = rule I=20 sleep a ways away form the fire pit any way hot sparks and oil cloth = do not go=20 well together. <BR>If you have enough under you as in oil cloth and = buff hide=20 or hair on elk or sheep skins and blankets plus your bedding folded = under you,=20 you should not have to build a nest of pine bows and such. Any way I = have only=20 built a nest once and that was on one of my first primitive winter = camp after=20 that I learned how to put my bed roll together so it had enough = insulation=20 built in under me so I can lay it out on top of the snow and be just = fine.=20 <BR>The worst thing that can happen is to be camped in deep snow and = have it=20 warm up and start to rain then you have got problems big time. So long = as it=20 stays below freezing and you stay dry you will be fine so long as you = are=20 prepared for the cold that is. <BR>I have read of Mountain Men = wintering in=20 Cache Valley and here in the Snake River Valley both these places see = a lot of=20 snow and cold well below 0 so they did not always winter in warmer = places.=20 <BR>If they could they did get ready for winter so they would have had = enough=20 buff hides to keep them warm at night and they did try to spend as = much time=20 as they could in one place come winter so a tipi or cabin was built at = times=20 but there were times when they had to move camp in winter and they did = not=20 have these luxuries also. <BR>When I do my winter camps I think of = myself as=20 one doing just this for on snow shoes and pulling toboggans this is a = man on=20 the move and the way I do my winter camps. <BR>Any way Larry if you = want to=20 see some pictures from some of our winter camps there are some on my = web site=20 and on this other site a good article on winter camping for women that = also=20 gives some information that can help any one doing winter camps. Ya = might want=20 to take a look. From what I've seen and heard every ones does it a = little=20 different and you just need to find out what works best for you. = <BR>See ya on=20 the trail <BR>Crazy Cyot <BR><A=20 = href=3D"http://members.tripod.com/gazingcyot/id7.htm">http://members.trip= od.com/gazingcyot/id7.htm</A>=20 <BR><A=20 = href=3D"http://members.tripod.com/womenofthefurtrade/id3.htm">http://memb= ers.tripod.com/womenofthefurtrade/id3.htm</A>=20 <BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C3A122.0B1632B0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" <admiller@citynet.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: cold weather camping Date: 02 Nov 2003 12:47:54 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C3A13F.88BAC920 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > There comes a time when common sense must prevail over the desire = to prove one is 'authentic'. A tin-teepee with a=20 > heater or a cozy cabin is much more appealing to my old bones than = sleeping like a sled dog. > Frank Good point. Also, the water purifiers, heavy duty First Aid Kits, needed = medications, etc... Being PC is great, but not at the expense of ones = well being or serious injury. Regards, Ad Miller ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C3A13F.88BAC920 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1141" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV>> There comes a time when common sense must = prevail=20 over the desire to prove one is 'authentic'. A tin-teepee with a </DIV> <DIV>> heater or a cozy cabin is much more appealing to my old bones = than=20 sleeping like a sled dog.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>> Frank</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Good point. Also, the water purifiers, heavy = duty First=20 Aid Kits, needed medications, etc... Being PC is great, but not at the = expense=20 of ones well being or serious injury.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Regards,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Ad Miller</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C3A13F.88BAC920-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" <admiller@citynet.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: winter camps and gear Date: 02 Nov 2003 12:54:23 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C3A140.70B42960 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >Hello to all, >All have been discussing the use of buffalo robes as the best for = keeping warm in one's winter camp. My queation is this, where >does one = obtain a buffalo robe without paying through the nose at some of the fur = traders to get one? >Candi/Twostitch I have a SMALL Buff Robe and paid $300 for it.... There are some Buff = farms that will allow you to come shoot a Buff for a price... Not sure = how expensive. Try www.google.com and type in buffalo hunt .. see what = you get. There is one here in WV, just over the mountain from us. = USually though, when you do this, you also want the meat, etc... OR call = and ask if they are selling their robes.=20 Regards, Ad Miller ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C3A140.70B42960 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1141" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>>Hello to all,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>>All have been discussing the use of = buffalo=20 robes as the best for keeping warm in one's winter camp. My queation is = this,=20 where >does one obtain a buffalo robe without paying through the nose = at some=20 of the fur traders to get one?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>>Candi/Twostitch</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have a SMALL Buff Robe and paid $300 = for it....=20 There are some Buff farms that will allow you to come shoot a Buff for a = price... Not sure how expensive. Try <A=20 href=3D"http://www.google.com">www.google.com</A> and type in buffalo = hunt .. see=20 what you get. There is one here in WV, just over the mountain from us. = USually=20 though, when you do this, you also want the meat, etc... OR call and ask = if they=20 are selling their robes. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Regards,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ad Miller</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C3A140.70B42960-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randal Bublitz" <rjbublitz@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: winter camps and gear Date: 02 Nov 2003 11:59:15 -0800 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Wes Housler offers brain tanned buffalo robes at prices lower than most traders offer commercial tanned hides . Does anyone have Wes's contact info.? He's in New Mexico. I bought one from him a few years ago. My first cold weather test with it was a night near Donner Pass, temps down to near 0 dg. , I was in a canvas tent-wrapped in a cow buffalo robe, a whitney 6 pt. blanket and a tarp. I woke up thinking I was at home- honestly- I was warm and cozy. It took me awhile to get my frozen solid boots on though. I'll dig around for any contact info., I'm in the middle of something else now. Shipped my hide was below $650. It is a winter cow, about 5' x 8'. This was a few years ago, so prices may have gone up some. Randy ps-the hide is beautiful ----- Original Message ----- Hello to all, All have been discussing the use of buffalo robes as the best for keeping warm in one's winter camp. My queation is this, where does one obtain a buffalo robe without paying through the nose at some of the fur traders to get one? Candi/Twostitch ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII <HTML style="FONT-SIZE: x-small; FONT-FAMILY: MS Sans Serif"><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV>Wes Housler offers brain tanned buffalo robes at prices lower than most traders offer commercial tanned hides . Does anyone have Wes's contact info.? He's in New Mexico. I bought one from him a few years ago. My first cold weather test with it was a night near Donner Pass, temps down to near 0 dg. , I was in a canvas tent-wrapped in a cow buffalo robe, a whitney 6 pt. blanket and a tarp. I woke up thinking I was at home- honestly- I was warm and cozy. It took me awhile to get my frozen solid boots on though. I'll dig around for any contact info., I'm in the middle of something else now. Shipped my hide was below $650. It is a winter cow, about 5' x 8'. This was a few years ago, so prices may have gone up some. Randy</DIV> <DIV>ps-the hide is beautiful</DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt Arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=twostitch@archersminiatures.com href="mailto:twostitch@archersminiatures.com">Candi Smith</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV><FONT size=2> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hello to all,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>All have been discussing the use of buffalo robes as the best for keeping warm in one's winter camp. My queation is this, where does one obtain a buffalo robe without paying through the nose at some of the fur traders to get one?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Candi/Twostitch</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: winter camps and gear (Wes Housler) Date: 02 Nov 2003 15:23:28 EST Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/2/2003 11:59:37 AM Pacific Standard Time, rjbublitz@earthlink.net writes: Does anyone have Wes's contact info.? He's in New Mexico Here's a link to his online catalog...... Braintanned Buffalo Robes, Tipis, Rawhide & Parfleche: by Wes Housler Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML><HEAD> <META charset=3DUTF-8 http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charse= t=3Dutf-8"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1264" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff= f"> <DIV> <DIV>In a message dated 11/2/2003 11:59:37 AM Pacific Standard Time, rjbubli= tz@earthlink.net writes:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20= 2px solid"><FONT face=3D"MS Sans Serif" size=3D2>Does anyone have Wes's cont= act info.? He's in New Mexico</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#000080>Here's a link to h= is online catalog...... <A href=3D"http://www.braintan.com/bison/wes.html">B= raintanned Buffalo Robes, Tipis, Rawhide & Parfleche: by Wes Housler</A>= </FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML> ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: L&C rifles Date: 03 Nov 2003 01:03:47 GMT frank--- since jake and sam hawkens worked for harpers ferry until after 1800 could it be since the hawken is a combination of a 1803 harpers ferry and a english sporting rifle that jake and sam worked on the lewis and clark guns that went west---what is the possibilities of this being true---there is a correspondance from clark to sam in the hawken family records---but it does not discuss the 1803 harpers ferry--- hawk ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ikon" <ikon@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: cold weather camping Date: 02 Nov 2003 20:24:21 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C3A17F.4C9BBFE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Now I live down here in good ol Georgia and did a cold weather camp last = December. Okay, stop your laughing, it's not as cold as some of ya'll = but when you're use to these southern temps, it can get cold. Everything went just fine except, yup except, while scouting the area = the evening prior I decided to be a "man" and walk through the stream. Now my wool leggins got wet but I did not loose any heat. The mocs were = another story. The wool stockings around my feet kept them warm until = oh about midnight. =20 Luckily I had a bottle of wild turkey and well, I slept well for the = first two hours, then I woke up, slammed some more turkey, out again. = Woke up around 4 am and slammed the rest and well I was up bright and = early at 5:30. Needles to say getting the mocs on was tough. I like the knee high = style so once they were on even with the wool, the frozen ground kept my = feet numb. Lesson learned. I could have walked up the stream oh about 50 yards an = hop across on a log. Live and learn. Frank ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Frank Fusco=20 To: list AMM=20 Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 12:16 PM Subject: MtMan-List: cold weather camping =20 Those on this list have dedication to authenticity, however one = defines it, ranging from "don't care" to strict observance of what they = believe the RMFT guys did back then. Something not often discussed on this list is the fact that it was = very 'authentic' to die painful, gruesome and horrible deaths from many = things we routinely care for today with modern items. Freezing to death certainly is 'authentic'. As was pointed out, = below certain temperatures, simply being outside requires serious = survival techniques if one expects to wake up again. There comes a time when common sense must prevail over the desire = to prove one is 'authentic'. A tin-teepee with a heater or a cozy cabin = is much more appealing to my old bones than sleeping like a sled dog. Frank ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C3A17F.4C9BBFE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Now I live down here in good ol Georgia = and did a=20 cold weather camp last December. Okay, stop your laughing, it's = not as=20 cold as some of ya'll but when you're use to these southern temps, it = can get=20 cold.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Everything went just fine except, yup = except, while=20 scouting the area the evening prior I decided to be a "man" and walk = through the=20 stream.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Now my wool leggins got wet but I did not loose = any=20 heat. The mocs were another story. The wool stockings around = my feet=20 kept them warm until oh about midnight. </FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Luckily I had a bottle of wild turkey and well, = I slept=20 well for the first two hours, then I woke up, slammed some more turkey, = out=20 again. Woke up around 4 am and slammed the rest and well I was up = bright=20 and early at 5:30.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Needles to say getting the mocs on was = tough. I like=20 the knee high style so once they were on even with the wool, the frozen = ground=20 kept my feet numb.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Lesson learned. I could have walked up the = stream oh=20 about 50 yards an hop across on a log.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Live and learn.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Frank</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: = 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A href=3D"mailto:Rifleman1776@cox-internet.com"=20 title=3DRifleman1776@cox-internet.com>Frank Fusco</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20 href=3D"mailto:hist_text@xmission.com" = title=3Dhist_text@xmission.com>list AMM</A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, November 02, 2003 = 12:16=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> MtMan-List: cold = weather=20 camping</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> =20 <DIV> Those on this list have dedication to = authenticity,=20 however one defines it, ranging from "don't care" to strict observance = of what=20 they believe the RMFT guys did back then.</DIV> <DIV> Something not often discussed on this list is = the fact=20 that it was very 'authentic' to die painful, gruesome and horrible = deaths from=20 many things we routinely care for today with modern items.</DIV> <DIV> Freezing to death certainly is 'authentic'. As = was=20 pointed out, below certain temperatures, simply being outside requires = serious=20 survival techniques if one expects to wake up again.</DIV> <DIV> There comes a time when common sense must = prevail over=20 the desire to prove one is 'authentic'. A tin-teepee with a heater or = a cozy=20 cabin is much more appealing to my old bones than sleeping like a sled = dog.</DIV> <DIV>Frank</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C3A17F.4C9BBFE0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Frank Fusco" <Rifleman1776@cox-internet.com> Subject: MtMan-List: L&C rifles Date: 02 Nov 2003 19:38:00 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C3A178.D30A2230 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <frank--- since jake and sam hawkens worked for harpers ferry until after 1800 = could it be since the hawken is a combination of a 1803 harpers ferry = and a english sporting rifle that jake and sam worked on the lewis and = clark guns that went west---what is the possibilities of this being = true---there is a correspondance from clark to sam in the hawken family = records---but it does not discuss the 1803 harpers ferry--- hawk> Hawk I dunno. Haven't done any personal research on this. I just relayed = what I saw in the AP story. One group of researchers, studying what = items records exist from the L&C trip, concluded that the order for the = Harper's Ferry Model 1803, contracted for the expedition, probably was = not ready in time for departure. I believe that when studies are = completed or new information comes along they will release it. If they didn't take the HF models, then they had to take something = and the Hawken boys products would have been good alternate choices. = But, I'm speculating here. Frank ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C3A178.D30A2230 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1264" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><frank---<BR>since jake and sam hawkens worked for harpers ferry = until=20 after 1800 could it be since the hawken is a combination of a 1803 = harpers ferry=20 and a english sporting rifle that jake and sam worked on the lewis and = clark=20 guns that went west---what is the possibilities of this being = true---there is a=20 correspondance from clark to sam in the hawken family records---but it = does not=20 discuss the 1803 harpers ferry---<BR><BR>hawk></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hawk</DIV> <DIV> I dunno. Haven't done any personal research on = this. I=20 just relayed what I saw in the AP story. One group of researchers, = studying what=20 items records exist from the L&C trip, concluded that the order for = the=20 Harper's Ferry Model 1803, contracted for the expedition, probably was = not ready=20 in time for departure. I believe that when studies are completed or new=20 information comes along they will release it.</DIV> <DIV> If they didn't take the HF models, then they had = to take=20 something and the Hawken boys products would have been good alternate = choices.=20 But, I'm speculating here.</DIV> <DIV>Frank<BR></DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C3A178.D30A2230-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "roger lahti" <amm1719@charter.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: L&C rifles Date: 02 Nov 2003 17:47:58 -0800 ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 5:03 PM > > frank--- > since jake and sam hawkens worked for harpers ferry until after 1800 could it be since the hawken is a combination of a 1803 harpers ferry and a english sporting rifle that jake and sam worked on the lewis and clark guns that went west---what is the possibilities of this being true---> Slim and none. If they were working on Harpers Ferry production then they worked on what they were told to. I doubt they had much influence on design. What every one seems to forget is that the 1803 didn't go into any level of production until after the Corps left on their journey. The other thing we forget is that in those days whatever gun was bening built as "the model" was designated as "Model" such and such according to what year it was being put out. The models being put out in 1803 did not look anything like what we see as "the half stock, etc." but rather much more like a Charleville musket. What little I have read recently has said as much. The latest research is saying that given all the known's about this, the Corps did not carry the half stock rifle we call an 1803 Harpers Ferrry. Maybe full stocks and certainly muskets but in the military design of the day with bands and etc. That's my take on all this. Capt. Lahti' ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James and Sue Stone <jandsstone@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: cold weather camping Date: 02 Nov 2003 20:31:04 -0700 --------------090402030902040208010908 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It was I who said take what works in case you need it. Thinking about that off and on during the evening I applied it to some of my 32 years of experience fighting wildland fires. We refer to that as an "Escape Route." Sure, you can get away doing risky things, but when things go to pot, it's nice to have an escape route. Other standard items firefighters look to is to assure they have communciation, even if it is just letting someone know where you are going and when you expect to come back. Who knows when they will stumble and spill a bucket full of water on themselves on the way up to camp from the creek? Sparks Frank Fusco wrote: > > Those on this list have dedication to authenticity, however one > defines it, ranging from "don't care" to strict observance of what > they believe the RMFT guys did back then. > Something not often discussed on this list is the fact that it was > very 'authentic' to die painful, gruesome and horrible deaths from > many things we routinely care for today with modern items. > Freezing to death certainly is 'authentic'. As was pointed out, > below certain temperatures, simply being outside requires serious > survival techniques if one expects to wake up again. > There comes a time when common sense must prevail over the desire > to prove one is 'authentic'. A tin-teepee with a heater or a cozy > cabin is much more appealing to my old bones than sleeping like a sled > dog. > Frank --------------090402030902040208010908 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <title></title> </head> <body> It was I who said take what works in case you need it. Thinking about that off and on during the evening I applied it to some of my 32 years of experience fighting wildland fires. We refer to that as an "Escape Route." Sure, you can get away doing risky things, but when things go to pot, it's nice to have an escape route. Other standard items firefighters look to is to assure they have communciation, even if it is just letting someone know where you are going and when you expect to come back. Who knows when they will stumble and spill a bucket full of water on themselves on the way up to camp from the creek?<br> <br> Sparks<br> <br> Frank Fusco wrote:<br> <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid004b01c3a165$160bd970$0f02a8c0@D2K2KS21"> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; "> <meta content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1264" name="GENERATOR"> <style></style> <div> Those on this list have dedication to authenticity, however one defines it, ranging from "don't care" to strict observance of what they believe the RMFT guys did back then.</div> <div> Something not often discussed on this list is the fact that it was very 'authentic' to die painful, gruesome and horrible deaths from many things we routinely care for today with modern items.</div> <div> Freezing to death certainly is 'authentic'. As was pointed out, below certain temperatures, simply being outside requires serious survival techniques if one expects to wake up again.</div> <div> There comes a time when common sense must prevail over the desire to prove one is 'authentic'. A tin-teepee with a heater or a cozy cabin is much more appealing to my old bones than sleeping like a sled dog.</div> <div>Frank</div> </blockquote> <br> </body> </html> --------------090402030902040208010908-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "roger lahti" <amm1719@charter.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: cold weather camping Date: 02 Nov 2003 20:45:57 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_020B_01C3A182.51545E90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sparks, Fellow fire fighter I see. This is not directed at you Sparks but is a = general comment to whomever. This list is devoted to investigating and sharing what we know about = RMFT and the people who participated in it along with most any closely = related historical period/peoples. When some one asks about how to do a = cold camp or etc. most of the knowledgeable folks on this list will = start talking about how they do it practicing as much authenticity as = they can.=20 Anyone listening can learn a lot on how to do just that. Anyone who = isn't comfortable with leaving modern civilization behind in any degree = they don't feel comfortable is surely welcome to do so. The Associations = who demand otherwise from their members and those who will associate = with them in their camps expect a certain level of authenticity (as best = as can be determined what's authentic) have a right to do so. Those who = don't wish to reach that far are welcome to choose their own path and = without anyone looking down on them in any seriousness.=20 I don't want anyone to go out in sub zero temps and do it with a bent = towards the early 1800s if they are not comfortable doing it. If you = need to take something, a comfort item for your safety or perceived = safety by all means do so. Nobody here is going to call you out for = doing so.=20 But if you don't camp strictly primitive it's pretty hard to believe you = know what it's all about and how to do it. YMOS Capt. Lahti' ------=_NextPart_000_020B_01C3A182.51545E90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD><TITLE></TITLE> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1170" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sparks,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Fellow fire fighter I see. This is not = directed at=20 you Sparks but is a general comment to whomever.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This list is devoted to investigating = and sharing=20 what we know about RMFT and the people who participated in it along with = most=20 any closely related historical period/peoples. When some one asks about = how to=20 do a cold camp or etc. most of the knowledgeable folks on this list will = start=20 talking about how they do it practicing as much authenticity as = they can.=20 </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Anyone listening can learn a lot on how = to do just=20 that. Anyone who isn't comfortable with leaving modern civilization = behind in=20 any degree they don't feel comfortable is surely welcome to do so. The=20 Associations who demand otherwise from their members and those who will=20 associate with them in their camps expect a certain level of = authenticity (as=20 best as can be determined what's authentic) have a right to do so. Those = who=20 don't wish to reach that far are welcome to choose their own path and = without=20 anyone looking down on them in any seriousness. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I don't want anyone to go out in sub = zero temps and=20 do it with a bent towards the early 1800s if they are not comfortable = doing it.=20 If you need to take something, a comfort item for your safety or = perceived=20 safety by all means do so. Nobody here is going to call you out for = doing so.=20 </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>But if you don't camp strictly = primitive it's=20 pretty hard to believe you know what it's all about and how to do=20 it.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>YMOS</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Capt. Lahti'</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_020B_01C3A182.51545E90-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "roger lahti" <amm1719@charter.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: winter camps and gear Date: 02 Nov 2003 21:02:26 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0249_01C3A184.9EA14530 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable An interesting trick to add to the function of ones blanket roll. I've found that my one or two blankets (depends on the season) work = better if I fold them in thirds instead of just doubled down the length = of my bed. Kinda like they made you do in the service?! Anyway it makes = for a narrower bed roll when rolled. At night take the foot end and = without undoing the 'three fold' just gather up the end of the bed roll = in an accordion fashion, pleats if you will. Probably have a half dozen = little pleats. Throw a hitch around the end of the blanket about 5" to = 6" up from the bottom using a clove hitch if you know how but basically = just tie the end up. If you can sleep on your back (I can't) then you will have double the = blanket over you. If you sleep on your side as I do, you lay the outside = fold on the bottom and the rest over you. Your feet will not kick out = because of the tie at the foot end and the blanket will be as long as = possible to pull over your head. And you will have a maximum amount of = blanket to wrap over and around your front side. You will also have = double layer over your feet which will help keep them warm. If your not too long you can tie up the head end too and then the = blankets work much like a mummy bag/envelope. I don't tie but the foot = up and just pull the blankets over my head. I also have an envelope made = of "Oily" oil cloth not linseed coated, that my blankets go into. This = helps cut the movement of air past the blanket and add's measurably to = the warmth. My buffalo robe doesn't need that air barrier because of the = "hide" being on the outside when I'm rolled up in it. Just a trick to try. Capt. L ------=_NextPart_000_0249_01C3A184.9EA14530 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1170" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>An interesting trick to add to the = function of ones=20 blanket roll.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've found that my one or two blankets = (depends on=20 the season) work better if I fold them in thirds instead of just doubled = down=20 the length of my bed. Kinda like they made you do in the service?! = Anyway it=20 makes for a narrower bed roll when rolled. At night take the foot end = and=20 without undoing the 'three fold' just gather up the end of the bed roll = in an=20 accordion fashion, pleats if you will. Probably have a half dozen little = pleats.=20 Throw a hitch around the end of the blanket about 5" to 6" up from the = bottom=20 using a clove hitch if you know how but basically just tie the end=20 up.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>If you can sleep on your back (I can't) = then you=20 will have double the blanket over you. If you sleep on your side as I = do, you=20 lay the outside fold on the bottom and the rest over you. Your feet will = not=20 kick out because of the tie at the foot end and the blanket will be as = long as=20 possible to pull over your head. And you will have a maximum amount of = blanket=20 to wrap over and around your front side. You will also have double layer = over=20 your feet which will help keep them warm.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>If your not too long you can tie up the = head end=20 too and then the blankets work much like a mummy bag/envelope. I don't = tie but=20 the foot up and just pull the blankets over my head. I also have an = envelope=20 made of "Oily" oil cloth not linseed coated, that my blankets go into. = This=20 helps cut the movement of air past the blanket and add's measurably to = the=20 warmth. My buffalo robe doesn't need that air barrier because of the = "hide"=20 being on the outside when I'm rolled up in it.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Just a trick to try.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Capt. L<BR></FONT><FONT = face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT=20 size=3D2></DIV></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0249_01C3A184.9EA14530-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" <admiller@citynet.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Colonial MArket Fair in Weston, WV Date: 03 Nov 2003 10:37:30 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C3A1F6.7BD577C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Heading out for a week to go to the Colonial MArket Fair at Jacksons = Mill in Weston, WV... Any of you going to be there? If so, look for = Meadowsweet Trading Company... my wifes little store. Also will have my = trade blanket out to get rid of some of my excess "junque"... *grins* See y'all in a week... Regards, Ad Miller ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C3A1F6.7BD577C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD><TITLE></TITLE> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1141" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Heading out for a week to go to the Colonial = MArket Fair=20 at Jacksons Mill in Weston, WV... Any of you going to be there? If so, = look for=20 Meadowsweet Trading Company... my wifes little store. Also will have my = trade=20 blanket out to get rid of some of my excess "junque"... = *grins*</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>See y'all in a week...</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Regards,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Ad Miller</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C3A1F6.7BD577C0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: MtMan-List: Calling Frenchtown Sean Date: 03 Nov 2003 11:20:30 -0700 (MST) Sean, Can you contact me off list. I lost your address. Thanks Beaverboy ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Double Edge Forge" <deforge1@bright.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Crass Commercial Announcement Date: 03 Nov 2003 16:09:43 -0500 Excuse the intrusion on this fine November day, but I have added several knives to the site and you are invited to peruse them, if you care to. http://www.bright.net/~deforge1 Sorry about the cross posts.... D "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Knives and Iron Accouterments http://www.bright.net/~deforge1 "Knowing how is just the beginning." ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: L&C rifles Date: 04 Nov 2003 11:36:48 -0500 On Sun, 2 Nov 2003 17:47:58 -0800 "roger lahti" <amm1719@charter.net> > Slim and none. If they were working on Harpers Ferry production then > they > worked on what they were told to. I doubt they had much influence on > design. > cpt you make a lot of assumed statements ---sam hawken worked for harpers ferry up till 1806 and jake hawken worked there until about 1810 and their father william worked there till he died---jake was listed in the rolls of harpers ferry as a master builder ---not a filer nor a stocker nor a inspector----a master builder job description was to built scratch guns and prototypes and that includes most of the parts--- a filer filed or made parts or cleaned up castings ---a stocker assembeled guns from parts similar to what kit builders do today ---the basic stock lines and dimentions of the rough parts Ie wood is the same for a hawken or a 1803 half stock but sam incorperated his tools and the good parts of the english sporting rifle to come up with what we know know as a hawken since sam worked there for years prior to L and C it could be highly possible he made some of the L & C rifles even if they were not the 1803 harpers ferry---there is only 5 master builders listed for harpers ferry and the masters would be the ones that built prototypes and or specials for government usage--- of course this is my humbel opinion and am sorry i dont agree with your thinking there is too much similarity between the 1803 and the hawken as we know it as "A typical hawken". I thank the L & C rifles were what started the thinking for the plains rifle as we know it today and sam was involved--- in a letter to his sister in 1807 in the mo historical archives he comments about his experience and development of new and wonderful large bore half stock rifles with strength to take the riggers of the westword movements and the larger big game animals---he felt he could best make a living by being on the cutting edge and moving to st louis the jumping off point to the westward expansion--- again just my humbel opinion--- "Hawk" ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "RICK TABOR" <blackshirt75@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Indian Robe Dressing Date: 04 Nov 2003 12:51:05 -0800 Beaver Boy, Ogden refers in his journals to giving a prize to the indian wife that does the best job with beaver pelts. I hope that helps. Rick _________________________________________________________________ Compare high-speed Internet plans, starting at $26.95. https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.) ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "RICK TABOR" <blackshirt75@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: L&C rifles Date: 04 Nov 2003 13:12:54 -0800 I havent read the article yet,but the latest Guns &Ammo has a detailed article on the guns of L&C. Rick _________________________________________________________________ MSN Shopping upgraded for the holidays! Snappier product search... http://shopping.msn.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "roger lahti" <amm1719@charter.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: L&C rifles Date: 04 Nov 2003 16:05:02 -0800 <I thank the L & C rifles were what started the thinking for the plains rifle as we know it today and Sam was involved--- in a letter to his sister in 1807 in the mo historical archives he comments about his experience and development of new and wonderful large bore half stock rifles with strength to take the riggers of the westward movements and the larger big game animals---he felt he could best make a living by being on the cutting edge and moving to st Louis the jumping off point to the westward expansion---> Hawk, It's ok to disagree with me. That's why I figured it was ok to disagree with you. <G> The information you shared above tells me that after the Corps returned Sam wrote his sister telling her about the great gun he had just worked on and he wrote this in 1807 you say? Then if he had been working on this prior to the Corps departure for them to take why would he have waited until 1807 to write about it? That just adds strength to my understanding that though the Hawken Bros may have had an impact on the supposed "1803" half stock it was not the type of rifle that the Corps carried. And if they were listed as master builders it would also be telling to know when they were listed as such. Before the Corps set out or later? That would certainly have an impact on whether they might have had any influence on the design of the half stock. There isn't any doubt that such a half stock gun might have been a big influence on the type of gun they later built but even at that, when did the Hawken Brothers start building half stocks for the western trade as private gun smiths? Seems Sam at the least was still working for Harpers Ferry Arsenal in 1807. Capt. Lahti' ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Indian Robe Dressing Date: 04 Nov 2003 19:10:50 -0700 (MST) Thanks Rick, But no it was bison not beaver, I remember hearing someone talk about Indian woman receiving a certain award for dressing their first 50 robes and for additional 25 or so and so on after that, sort of like hash marks. I can't remember the details but at the time I realized the amount of work it would have taken to dress 50 bison robes. I can't believe no one else has heard of this. Maybe it's not true. Thanks anyway Rick. BB > Beaver Boy, > Ogden refers in his journals to giving a prize to the indian wife > that does the best job with beaver pelts. I hope that helps. > Rick > > _________________________________________________________________ > Compare high-speed Internet plans, starting at $26.95. > https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.) > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: MtMan-List: The Northwoods Date: 04 Nov 2003 20:27:28 -0700 (MST) Dear List, Winter reared itÆs ugly head early here in north central Montana. Bitter cold and blowing snow for the last five days. It was 5 degrees above when I got up at 5:00AM to go deer hunting. I was up not ten minutes making coffee when I heard a rap on the front door! It was the newspaper lady. She was stuck in a snow drift nearby and needed a tow, she came to my house because my light was on. It was the first time we met though I have passed her many times in the early morning on my way to work. She was running an hour behind schedule due to the snow. I usually pass her around 3:30 - 4:00AM. She starts her work day at 1:00AM which made me feel pretty good about my work hours. SheÆs a Grandmother, tough old gal! She was bundled up and had a flashlight. I told her to knock anytime she was in a bind whether the light was on or not. I only have to hike a short distance from my home to hunt whitetails which is why I can sleep in so late. I even have time to enjoy some hot coffee and watch the news before leaving. The weather the last three mornings has been bitter cold! This is the weather they write about in the journals like that of Fort Clark and Fort Union!! Bitter, bitter cold with a stiff north wind and snow with deep drifts in spots! ItÆs all I can do to sit in my stand for an hour and a half before getting too cold. And I am bundled up. Once I get moving IÆm fine, but everyone knows itÆs tough to hunt whitetails on the move. I have to keep a close watch on my lock steel and blow snow from it. I decided not to set traps for the Red Drifters (red fox) yet as it is soo bitterly cold, I want his last day on earth to be a little more comfortable. Remember, IÆm an old softy now. I did wade out to an island on the Missouri River yesterday and set 7 beaver traps. These were all killer drowning sets so I did not worry about them. I checked them this afternoon and had 6 beaver in the 7 traps! It doesnÆt get much better than this! For those of you who donÆt know, rolling a wet rat, mink or beaver in snow dries it instantly. You have to take it quickly out of the water and put it right into the snow and roll and rub it all over with snow. It will work too if you ever take a spill in icy water and need to soak up some of the water quick. I had to make two trips off of the island with my trapping pack loaded down. One trip it weighed 88 pounds not including ax. The second trip it was 93 pounds. I couldnÆt even make it up the snowy bank with the heavy pack. I had to take it off and push it up ahead of me. I rough skinned two of the smaller beaver right off so the dogs could have fresh meat tonight. They are ravenous eaters in this bitter cold. I cut off all four hams (8 total) and saved the remaining carcass for cat trappers I know who use whatÆs left for bait. Nothing goes to waste in the north woods. Life has been good for beaver boy. With 6 beaver in one night, I guess I can go by beaverboy for another 6 monthÆs anyway. ItÆs clear out now and I just checked my thermometer and its -10 below at 8:00PM! TomorrowÆs hunt should be interesting. These are shining times! IÆm having a hot toddy tonight and built a fire in the woodstove. Hey, IÆm on vacation! Oh, and I took two aspirins too. Good luck to all of you down the trail, beaverboy ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randal Bublitz" <rjbublitz@earthlink.net> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: The Northwoods Date: 04 Nov 2003 19:43:10 -0800 Beaverboy, congrats , and thanks for the update. We've had frost a few nights this week here on the central coast of Cal. (upper 30s) and I've felt a little chilly. Heck, after reading your words I've stripped nekked. I'd like to think that with some conditioning I could deal with those temps, but really I doubt it. More power to you. Thanks for sharing your experiences. Yfab, Randy > [Original Message] > From: <beaverboy@sofast.net> > Dear List, > Winter reared itÆs ugly head early here in north central Montana. > Bitter cold and blowing snow for the last five days. It was 5 > degrees above when I got up at 5:00AM to go deer hunting. ..... ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <lanneyratcliff@charter.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Northwoods Date: 04 Nov 2003 21:47:42 -0600 Here in frigid north-central Texas we are still running the damn air conditioning. It was only in the low to mid 80's today but the humidity would make Houston proud. Haven't seen the sun in several days.......low clouds and 10-30 mph winds out of the south west (read Mexico). Be glad when we get some cool weather. Lanney ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 9:43 PM Beaverboy, congrats , and thanks for the update. We've had frost a few nights this week here on the central coast of Cal. (upper 30s) and I've felt a little chilly. Heck, after reading your words I've stripped nekked. I'd like to think that with some conditioning I could deal with those temps, but really I doubt it. More power to you. Thanks for sharing your experiences. Yfab, Randy > [Original Message] > From: <beaverboy@sofast.net> > Dear List, > Winter reared it's ugly head early here in north central Montana. > Bitter cold and blowing snow for the last five days. It was 5 > degrees above when I got up at 5:00AM to go deer hunting. ..... ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Indian Robe Dressing Date: 04 Nov 2003 22:55:12 EST --part1_51.36d78a23.2cd9cea0_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "For my industry in dressing skins, my clan Aunt, Sage, gave me a woman's belt. it was as broad as my three fingers, and covered with blue beads. One end was made very long, to hang down before me. Only a very industrious girl was given such a belt. She could not buy or make one....I was as proud of mine as a war leader of his first scalp. I won other honors for my industry. For embroidering a robe for my father with porcupine quills I was given a brass ring." Buffalo Bird Woman, Hidatsa, born about 1839 --part1_51.36d78a23.2cd9cea0_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2> "For my industry in dres= sing skins, my clan Aunt, Sage, gave me a woman's belt. it was as broa= d as my three fingers, and covered with blue beads. One end was made very lo= ng, to hang down before me. Only a very industrious girl was given suc= h a belt. She could not buy or make one....I was as proud of mine as a war l= eader of his first scalp. I won other honors for my industry. For embroideri= ng a robe for my father with porcupine quills I was given a brass ring." &nb= sp; Buffalo Bird Woman, Hidatsa, born about 1839</FON= T></HTML> --part1_51.36d78a23.2cd9cea0_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sean Boushie" <flintlocknfur@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Northwoods Date: 05 Nov 2003 05:52:53 +0000 Well, Huzzaa to you!!! It's a good day when you get a sore back from carting off all those plews!! MMMM fresh bever stew............. I've served it to a few pilgrims who didn't know what it was. I'm now relegated to bringing the potato chips............... If you've never tried it that tail if skinned and dried tight then oiled will make a pretty durable knife sheath if you use it as an outer cover on a soft piece of leather. I have a new/old knife I'm planning on doing just that with. When I get some of the yellow toothed critters for my self. SMB >From: beaverboy@sofast.net >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >To: hist_text@xmission.com >Subject: MtMan-List: The Northwoods >Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 20:27:28 -0700 (MST) > >Dear List, > Winter reared itÆs ugly head early here in north central Montana. >Bitter cold and blowing snow for the last five days. It was 5 >degrees above when I got up at 5:00AM to go deer hunting. I was >up not ten minutes making coffee when I heard a rap on the front >door! It was the newspaper lady. She was stuck in a snow drift >nearby and needed a tow, she came to my house because my light >was on. It was the first time we met though I have passed her >many times in the early morning on my way to work. She was >running an hour behind schedule due to the snow. I usually pass >her around 3:30 - 4:00AM. She starts her work day at 1:00AM which >made me feel pretty good about my work hours. SheÆs a >Grandmother, tough old gal! She was bundled up and had a >flashlight. I told her to knock anytime she was in a bind whether >the light was on or not. > I only have to hike a short distance from my home to hunt >whitetails which is why I can sleep in so late. I even have time >to enjoy some hot coffee and watch the news before leaving. The >weather the last three mornings has been bitter cold! This is the >weather they write about in the journals like that of Fort Clark >and Fort Union!! Bitter, bitter cold with a stiff north wind and >snow with deep drifts in spots! ItÆs all I can do to sit in my >stand for an hour and a half before getting too cold. And I am >bundled up. Once I get moving IÆm fine, but everyone knows itÆs >tough to hunt whitetails on the move. > I have to keep a close watch on my lock steel and blow snow from it. > I decided not to set traps for the Red Drifters (red fox) yet as it >is soo bitterly cold, I want his last day on earth to be a little >more comfortable. Remember, IÆm an old softy now. I did wade out to >an island on the Missouri River yesterday and set 7 beaver traps. >These were all killer drowning sets so I did not worry about them. I >checked them this afternoon and had 6 beaver in the 7 traps! It >doesnÆt get much better than this! For those of you who donÆt know, >rolling a wet rat, mink or beaver in snow dries it instantly. You >have to take it quickly out of the water and put it right into the >snow and roll and rub it all over with snow. It will work too if >you ever take a spill in icy water and need to soak up some of the >water quick. > I had to make two trips off of the island with my trapping pack >loaded down. One trip it weighed 88 pounds not including ax. The >second trip it was 93 pounds. I couldnÆt even make it up the snowy >bank with the heavy pack. I had to take it off and push it up >ahead of me. > I rough skinned two of the smaller beaver right off so the dogs >could have fresh meat tonight. They are ravenous eaters in this >bitter cold. I cut off all four hams (8 total) and saved the >remaining carcass for cat trappers I know who use whatÆs left for >bait. Nothing goes to waste in the north woods. > Life has been good for beaver boy. With 6 beaver in one night, I >guess I can go by beaverboy for another 6 monthÆs anyway. > ItÆs clear out now and I just checked my thermometer and its -10 >below at 8:00PM! TomorrowÆs hunt should be interesting. > These are shining times! IÆm having a hot toddy tonight and built a >fire in the woodstove. Hey, IÆm on vacation! Oh, and I took two >aspirins too. > Good luck to all of you down the trail, > beaverboy > > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html _________________________________________________________________ Concerned that messages may bounce because your Hotmail account is over limit? Get Hotmail Extra Storage! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Northwoods Date: 05 Nov 2003 09:46:10 -0700 (MST) SMB, They weren't just the plews, they had the beaver in them too! Got down to -18 below in the Sun River valley last night. I almost didn't go to my stand this morning but you don't get deer watching the Today show. Well, I should have watched the the Today show because all I got was cold toes! The bitter cold really makes the sound travel. The dry snow squeaked when I hiked in. People ask me all the time about beaver tails, I've never found any references to them being used for anything but a meal. Not a big deal to me. I have a knife sheath made of one too, but seldom use it. Looks good though! Stay warm, BB > Well, Huzzaa to you!!! It's a good day when you get a sore back from > carting > off all those plews!! MMMM fresh bever stew............. I've served it > to > a few pilgrims who didn't know what it was. I'm now relegated to bringing > the potato chips............... If you've never tried it that tail if > skinned and dried tight then oiled will make a pretty durable knife sheath > if you use it as an outer cover on a soft piece of leather. I have a > new/old > knife I'm planning on doing just that with. When I get some of the > yellow > toothed critters for my self. > > SMB > > >>From: beaverboy@sofast.net >>Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >>To: hist_text@xmission.com >>Subject: MtMan-List: The Northwoods >>Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 20:27:28 -0700 (MST) >> >>Dear List, >> Winter reared itÆs ugly head early here in north central >> Montana. >>Bitter cold and blowing snow for the last five days. It was 5 >>degrees above when I got up at 5:00AM to go deer hunting. I was >>up not ten minutes making coffee when I heard a rap on the front >>door! It was the newspaper lady. She was stuck in a snow drift >>nearby and needed a tow, she came to my house because my light >>was on. It was the first time we met though I have passed her >>many times in the early morning on my way to work. She was >>running an hour behind schedule due to the snow. I usually pass >>her around 3:30 - 4:00AM. She starts her work day at 1:00AM which >>made me feel pretty good about my work hours. SheÆs a >>Grandmother, tough old gal! She was bundled up and had a >>flashlight. I told her to knock anytime she was in a bind whether >>the light was on or not. >> I only have to hike a short distance from my home to hunt >>whitetails which is why I can sleep in so late. I even have time >>to enjoy some hot coffee and watch the news before leaving. The >>weather the last three mornings has been bitter cold! This is the >>weather they write about in the journals like that of Fort Clark >>and Fort Union!! Bitter, bitter cold with a stiff north wind and >>snow with deep drifts in spots! ItÆs all I can do to sit in my >>stand for an hour and a half before getting too cold. And I am >>bundled up. Once I get moving IÆm fine, but everyone knows itÆs >>tough to hunt whitetails on the move. >> I have to keep a close watch on my lock steel and blow snow from >> it. >> I decided not to set traps for the Red Drifters (red fox) yet as >> it >>is soo bitterly cold, I want his last day on earth to be a little >>more comfortable. Remember, IÆm an old softy now. I did wade out to >>an island on the Missouri River yesterday and set 7 beaver traps. >>These were all killer drowning sets so I did not worry about them. I >>checked them this afternoon and had 6 beaver in the 7 traps! It >>doesnÆt get much better than this! For those of you who donÆt know, >>rolling a wet rat, mink or beaver in snow dries it instantly. You >>have to take it quickly out of the water and put it right into the >>snow and roll and rub it all over with snow. It will work too if >>you ever take a spill in icy water and need to soak up some of the >>water quick. >> I had to make two trips off of the island with my trapping pack >>loaded down. One trip it weighed 88 pounds not including ax. The >>second trip it was 93 pounds. I couldnÆt even make it up the snowy >>bank with the heavy pack. I had to take it off and push it up >>ahead of me. >> I rough skinned two of the smaller beaver right off so the dogs >>could have fresh meat tonight. They are ravenous eaters in this >>bitter cold. I cut off all four hams (8 total) and saved the >>remaining carcass for cat trappers I know who use whatÆs left for >>bait. Nothing goes to waste in the north woods. >> Life has been good for beaver boy. With 6 beaver in one night, I >>guess I can go by beaverboy for another 6 monthÆs anyway. >> ItÆs clear out now and I just checked my thermometer and its -10 >>below at 8:00PM! TomorrowÆs hunt should be interesting. >> These are shining times! IÆm having a hot toddy tonight and built >> a >>fire in the woodstove. Hey, IÆm on vacation! Oh, and I took two >>aspirins too. >> Good luck to all of you down the trail, >> beaverboy >> >> >> >>---------------------- >>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > _________________________________________________________________ > Concerned that messages may bounce because your Hotmail account is over > limit? Get Hotmail Extra Storage! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Northwoods Date: 05 Nov 2003 09:46:10 -0700 (MST) SMB, They weren't just the plews, they had the beaver in them too! Got down to -18 below in the Sun River valley last night. I almost didn't go to my stand this morning but you don't get deer watching the Today show. Well, I should have watched the the Today show because all I got was cold toes! The bitter cold really makes the sound travel. The dry snow squeaked when I hiked in. People ask me all the time about beaver tails, I've never found any references to them being used for anything but a meal. Not a big deal to me. I have a knife sheath made of one too, but seldom use it. Looks good though! Stay warm, BB > Well, Huzzaa to you!!! It's a good day when you get a sore back from > carting > off all those plews!! MMMM fresh bever stew............. I've served it > to > a few pilgrims who didn't know what it was. I'm now relegated to bringing > the potato chips............... If you've never tried it that tail if > skinned and dried tight then oiled will make a pretty durable knife sheath > if you use it as an outer cover on a soft piece of leather. I have a > new/old > knife I'm planning on doing just that with. When I get some of the > yellow > toothed critters for my self. > > SMB > > >>From: beaverboy@sofast.net >>Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >>To: hist_text@xmission.com >>Subject: MtMan-List: The Northwoods >>Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 20:27:28 -0700 (MST) >> >>Dear List, >> Winter reared itÆs ugly head early here in north central >> Montana. >>Bitter cold and blowing snow for the last five days. It was 5 >>degrees above when I got up at 5:00AM to go deer hunting. I was >>up not ten minutes making coffee when I heard a rap on the front >>door! It was the newspaper lady. She was stuck in a snow drift >>nearby and needed a tow, she came to my house because my light >>was on. It was the first time we met though I have passed her >>many times in the early morning on my way to work. She was >>running an hour behind schedule due to the snow. I usually pass >>her around 3:30 - 4:00AM. She starts her work day at 1:00AM which >>made me feel pretty good about my work hours. SheÆs a >>Grandmother, tough old gal! She was bundled up and had a >>flashlight. I told her to knock anytime she was in a bind whether >>the light was on or not. >> I only have to hike a short distance from my home to hunt >>whitetails which is why I can sleep in so late. I even have time >>to enjoy some hot coffee and watch the news before leaving. The >>weather the last three mornings has been bitter cold! This is the >>weather they write about in the journals like that of Fort Clark >>and Fort Union!! Bitter, bitter cold with a stiff north wind and >>snow with deep drifts in spots! ItÆs all I can do to sit in my >>stand for an hour and a half before getting too cold. And I am >>bundled up. Once I get moving IÆm fine, but everyone knows itÆs >>tough to hunt whitetails on the move. >> I have to keep a close watch on my lock steel and blow snow from >> it. >> I decided not to set traps for the Red Drifters (red fox) yet as >> it >>is soo bitterly cold, I want his last day on earth to be a little >>more comfortable. Remember, IÆm an old softy now. I did wade out to >>an island on the Missouri River yesterday and set 7 beaver traps. >>These were all killer drowning sets so I did not worry about them. I >>checked them this afternoon and had 6 beaver in the 7 traps! It >>doesnÆt get much better than this! For those of you who donÆt know, >>rolling a wet rat, mink or beaver in snow dries it instantly. You >>have to take it quickly out of the water and put it right into the >>snow and roll and rub it all over with snow. It will work too if >>you ever take a spill in icy water and need to soak up some of the >>water quick. >> I had to make two trips off of the island with my trapping pack >>loaded down. One trip it weighed 88 pounds not including ax. The >>second trip it was 93 pounds. I couldnÆt even make it up the snowy >>bank with the heavy pack. I had to take it off and push it up >>ahead of me. >> I rough skinned two of the smaller beaver right off so the dogs >>could have fresh meat tonight. They are ravenous eaters in this >>bitter cold. I cut off all four hams (8 total) and saved the >>remaining carcass for cat trappers I know who use whatÆs left for >>bait. Nothing goes to waste in the north woods. >> Life has been good for beaver boy. With 6 beaver in one night, I >>guess I can go by beaverboy for another 6 monthÆs anyway. >> ItÆs clear out now and I just checked my thermometer and its -10 >>below at 8:00PM! TomorrowÆs hunt should be interesting. >> These are shining times! IÆm having a hot toddy tonight and built >> a >>fire in the woodstove. Hey, IÆm on vacation! Oh, and I took two >>aspirins too. >> Good luck to all of you down the trail, >> beaverboy >> >> >> >>---------------------- >>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > _________________________________________________________________ > Concerned that messages may bounce because your Hotmail account is over > limit? Get Hotmail Extra Storage! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Indian Robe Dressing Date: 05 Nov 2003 09:49:27 -0700 (MST) This is what I'm talking about! Thanks a ton. Was there anymore in that source? > "For my industry in dressing skins, my clan Aunt, Sage, gave me a woman's > belt. it was as broad as my three fingers, and covered with blue beads. > One end > was made very long, to hang down before me. Only a very industrious girl > was > given such a belt. She could not buy or make one....I was as proud of mine > as > a war leader of his first scalp. I won other honors for my industry. For > embroidering a robe for my father with porcupine quills I was given a > brass ring." > Buffalo Bird Woman, Hidatsa, born about 1839 > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Northwoods Date: 05 Nov 2003 13:42:58 EST Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/5/2003 8:47:12 AM Pacific Standard Time, beaverboy@sofast.net writes: I have a knife sheath made of one too, but seldom use it. Looks good though! Speaking of beaver tail sheaths..... BEAD.....where IS mine????? Magpie Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML><HEAD> <META charset=3DUTF-8 http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charse= t=3Dutf-8"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2730.1700" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff= f"> <DIV> <DIV>In a message dated 11/5/2003 8:47:12 AM Pacific Standard Time, beaverbo= y@sofast.net writes:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20= 2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>I have a knife sheath made of one too, but sel= dom use<BR>it. Looks good though!</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> <DIV>Speaking of beaver tail sheaths..... BEAD.....where IS mine?????</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Magpie</DIV></BODY></HTML> ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dale Nelson" <dnelson@wizzards.net> Subject: MtMan-List: L&C Rifles Date: 05 Nov 2003 12:28:43 -0800 The Hawken brothers may have worked at Harper's Ferry but they did not come up with their short, heavy-barreled rifles until the fur trade era was about over. Through most of that era the most ordered rifles (by the fur companies) was the English Pattern put out by Henry, Derringer, Leman, etc. All were full-stocked rifles with barrels in the 40" range and of a nominal 53 cal.. Dale Nelson ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: L&C Rifles Date: 05 Nov 2003 16:33:09 -0700 (MST) Some one mentioned an article in Guns & Ammo about the 1803 HF? I couldn't find it. Who is the author? Thanks you, bb > The Hawken brothers may have worked at Harper's Ferry but they did not > come > up with their short, heavy-barreled rifles until the fur trade era was > about > over. Through most of that era the most ordered > rifles (by the fur companies) was the English Pattern put out by Henry, > Derringer, Leman, etc. All were full-stocked rifles with barrels in the > 40" > range and of a nominal 53 cal.. > > Dale Nelson > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ThisOldFox@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: L&C Rifles Date: 05 Nov 2003 18:47:13 EST Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here are two websites that discuss the rifles. NPS/Harpers Ferry http://www.nps.gov/hafe/lewis/photo08-hist.htm L&C Archives...firearms discussion http://www.lcarchive.org/firearms.html Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML><HEAD> <META charset=3DUTF-8 http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charse= t=3Dutf-8"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1264" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff= f"> <DIV>Here are two websites that discuss the rifles.</DIV> <DIV>NPS/Harpers Ferry</DIV> <DIV><A href=3D"http://www.nps.gov/hafe/lewis/photo08-hist.htm">http://www.n= ps.gov/hafe/lewis/photo08-hist.htm</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>L&C Archives...firearms discussion</DIV> <DIV><A href=3D"http://www.lcarchive.org/firearms.html">http://www.lcarchive= .org/firearms.html</A></DIV></BODY></HTML> ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "RICK TABOR" <blackshirt75@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: L&C Rifles Date: 06 Nov 2003 13:43:01 -0800 The article is in this months issue. Which is their 45th anniversary issue and comes complete with a commerative decal (suitable for framing). Rick _________________________________________________________________ Great deals on high-speed Internet access as low as $26.95. https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.) ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ronald Schrotter <mail4dog@yahoo.com> Subject: MtMan-List: L&C rifles Date: 07 Nov 2003 07:00:37 -0800 (PST) The discussion as to whether the '03 Harpers Ferry rifle went on the grand journey has been interesting, and if I was an L&C reenactor it would be quite important. What I feel is more important as a fur trade reenactor is when did they become available to the public? Did they appear out west at all? what about what military units they did get issued to? Anyone have info on this aspect of a beautiful rifle's destiny? Dog, Hiv. # 617 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: L&C rifles Date: 07 Nov 2003 09:31:58 -0700 (MST) We know Colter was given his issued rifle in 1806 for his duty. So I guess that would be the starting date. beaverboy > The discussion as to whether the '03 Harpers Ferry > rifle went on the grand journey has been interesting, > and if I was an L&C reenactor it would be quite > important. What I feel is more important as a fur > trade reenactor is when did they become available to > the public? Did they appear out west at all? what > about what military units they did get issued to? > Anyone have info on this aspect of a beautiful rifle's > destiny? Dog, Hiv. # 617 > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: MtMan-List: Fwd: honors Date: 07 Nov 2003 12:44:05 EST --part1_15f.27f951a4.2cdd33e5_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --part1_15f.27f951a4.2cdd33e5_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <brokenshell@juno.com> Received: from rly-xg02.mx.aol.com (rly-xg02.mail.aol.com [172.20.115.199]) by air-xg01.mail.aol.com (v97.8) with ESMTP id MAILINXG13-4503fa8e22e159; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 06:42:46 -0500 Received: from m26.lax.untd.com (m26.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.89]) by rly-xg02.mx.aol.com (v97.7) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINXG24-4503fa8e22e159; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 06:42:38 -0500 Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"lqAos5E7UOXh4rqlF+5/V+EkDvRmmNqWICNjfdniAe4FmK0o3OhEIA==">; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 03:41:53 PST Received: (from brokenshell@juno.com) by m26.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JD8H82DC; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 03:41:53 PST Message-ID: <20031105.034015.192.9.brokenshell@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=--__JNP_000_47cc.4007.293c X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 8-6,10,13-25,33,34-32767 X-AOL-IP: 64.136.30.89 ----__JNP_000_47cc.4007.293c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, I have in George Bird Grinnnell book The Cheyenne Indians. They speak a little on societies and say that women who have done things of this nature where credited as were bravery and success in war among the men. Hope that helped best I could on what I got. but I have heard/read that women who had done so many hides or made so many lodges where held in greatness as any brave warrior who had counted many coup. Tues, 4 Nov 2003 22:59:02 EST GazeingCyot@cs.com writes: Thanks Rick, But no it was bison not beaver, I remember hearing someone talk about Indian woman receiving a certain award for dressing their first 50 robes and for additional 25 or so and so on after that, sort of like hash marks. I can't remember the details but at the time I realized the amount of work it would have taken to dress 50 bison robes. I can't believe no one else has heard of this. Maybe it's not true. Thanks anyway Rick. BB For my industry in dressing skins, my clan Aunt, Sage, gave me a woman's belt. it was as broad as my three fingers, and covered with blue beads. One end was made very long, to hang down before me. Only a very industrious girl was given such a belt. She could not buy or make one....I was as proud of mine as a war leader of his first scalp. I won other honors for my industry. For embroidering a robe for my father with porcupine quills I was given a brass ring." Buffalo Bird Woman, Hidatsa, born about 1839 Jill Anyone else remember reading something on this? ----__JNP_000_47cc.4007.293c Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3Dcontent-type content=3Dtext/html;charset=3DUS-ASCII> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D2> <DIV>Yes, I have in George Bird Grinnnell book The Cheyenne Indians. Th= ey=20 speak a little on societies and say that women who have done things of this=20 nature where credited as were bravery and success in war among the men.= =20 </DIV> <DIV>Hope that helped best I could on what I got. but I have heard/read that= =20 women who had done so many hides or made so many lodges where held in greatn= ess=20 as any brave warrior who had counted many coup. </DIV> <DIV>Tues, 4 Nov 2003 22:59:02 EST <A href=3D"mailto:GazeingCyot@cs.com">Ga= zeingCyot@cs.com</A> writes:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr > <DIV><BR>Thanks Rick, <BR> But no it was bison not beaver, I=20 remember hearing someone talk about <BR>Indian woman receiving a certain a= ward=20 for dressing their first 50 <BR>robes and for additional 25 or so and so o= n=20 after that, sort of like <BR>hash marks. I can't remember the details but=20= at=20 the time I realized the <BR>amount of work it would have taken to dress 50= =20 bison robes. <BR> I can't believe no one else has heard of this= .=20 Maybe it's not true. <BR> Thanks anyway Rick.=20 <BR> BB <BR><BR>For my industry in dres= sing=20 skins, my clan Aunt, Sage, gave me a woman's belt. it was as broad as my t= hree=20 fingers, and covered with blue beads. One end was made very long, to hang=20= down=20 before me. Only a very industrious girl was given such a belt. She c= ould=20 not buy or make one....I was as proud of mine as a war leader of his first= =20 scalp. I won other honors for my industry. For embroidering a robe for my=20 father with porcupine quills I was given a brass ring." Buffalo Bird Woman= ,=20 Hidatsa, born about 1839 Jill=20 <BR> Anyone else remember reading somet= hing=20 on this? <BR><BR><BR></DIV></FONT></FONT> <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ----__JNP_000_47cc.4007.293c-- --part1_15f.27f951a4.2cdd33e5_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LODGEPOLE@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: L&C rifles Date: 07 Nov 2003 16:36:31 EST Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/7/2003 10:33:04 AM Central Standard Time, beaverboy@sofast.net writes: We know Colter was given his issued rifle in 1806 for his duty. So I guess that would be the starting date. If indeed it was an 'o3 model. Longshot Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML><HEAD> <META charset=3DUTF-8 http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charse= t=3Dutf-8"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2733.1800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff= f"> <DIV>In a message dated 11/7/2003 10:33:04 AM Central Standard Time, beaverb= oy@sofast.net writes:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20= 2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>We know Colter was given his issued rifle in 1= 806 for his duty. So I guess<BR>that would be the starting date.</FONT></BLO= CKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">If indeed it was an 'o3 model.</FONT></DIV= > <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT lang=3D0 face=3DBATAVIA size=3D5 PTSIZE=3D"18">L</FONT><FONT lang= =3D0 face=3DBATAVIA color=3D#000000 size=3D4 PTSIZE=3D"14">ongshot</FONT></D= IV></BODY></HTML> ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <lanneyratcliff@charter.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 18:59:34 -0600 Date: 07 Nov 2003 18:28:22 -0700 An old (high school) friend of my brother has a very interesting job with the government and he sometimes sends us some amazing photos. Anybody interested in seeing a shot of the recent San Diego area fires from orbit? Post me directly and I will send it back as an attachment. Lanney Ratcliff lanneyratcliff@charter.net ______________________________________________________________ Aux Aliments du Pays ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "roger lahti" <amm1719@charter.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: L&C rifles Date: 07 Nov 2003 19:22:56 -0800 beaverboy, I'm thinking that many have pretty much come to the conclusion that what Colter got was his contract rifle simply because the "1803" probably didn't go with the expedition. So it was some time long after that when they started to appear if at all in the general fur trade. Capt. L ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wynn Ormond" <cheyenne@pcu.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 18:59:34 -0600 Date: 08 Nov 2003 13:11:25 -0700 Lanney That sound worth seeing. Wynn ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 6:28 PM > An old (high school) friend of my brother has a very interesting job with > the government and he sometimes sends us some amazing photos. Anybody > interested in seeing a shot of the recent San Diego area fires from orbit? > Post me directly and I will send it back as an attachment. > > > Lanney Ratcliff > lanneyratcliff@charter.net > ______________________________________________________________ > Aux Aliments du Pays > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: MtMan-List: Birch Bark Canoe Date: 08 Nov 2003 17:41:44 EST --part1_1c8.118e6e8d.2cdecb28_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello in the camps. If any of you are interested in getting a Birch Bark Canoe there is one on Ebay that I think is real reasonable. To those of you that have seen it sorry for letting the cat out of the bag. I have a bid on it but am not going to pursue it any more. Do to up keep the dry air out west I would think would be hard on it and make for a leaky canoe and for a lot regular patching of seems. Any why it's 17 1/2 foot that need some patching done and it's ready to go. Wow! what a looker it would be nice to see it go to a good home. <A HREF="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3636207391&category=23800&rd=1">http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3636207391&category=23800& rd=1</A> If any of ya get it ya owe me a ride in it. Take care and see ya on the water. Crazy Cyot --part1_1c8.118e6e8d.2cdecb28_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>Hello in the camps. <BR>If any of you are interested in getting a Birch Bark Canoe there is one=20= on Ebay that I think is real reasonable. To those of you that have seen it s= orry for letting the cat out of the bag. I have a bid on it but am not going= to pursue it any more. Do to up keep the dry air out west I would think wou= ld be hard on it and make for a leaky canoe and for a lot regular patching o= f seems. <BR>Any why it's 17 1/2 foot that need some patching done and it's ready to=20= go. Wow! what a looker it would be nice to see it go to a good home.=20 <BR><A HREF=3D"http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D36362073= 91&category=3D23800&rd=3D1">http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&am= p;item=3D3636207391&category=3D23800&rd=3D1</A> <BR> <BR>If any of ya get it ya owe me a ride in it. <BR>Take care and see ya on the water. <BR>Crazy Cyot</FONT></HTML> --part1_1c8.118e6e8d.2cdecb28_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: NaugaMok@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: L&C rifles Date: 08 Nov 2003 18:08:34 EST --part1_ad.35bbce0f.2cded172_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/7/2003 7:06:17 AM Pacific Standard Time, mail4dog@yahoo.com writes: > Did they appear out west at all? what > about what military units they did get issued to? > What about Zebulon Pike's expedition? What did they carry? That journey was problem laden as Louis & Clark's was trouble free. And, since it wasn't the first expedition, it's not as well known or doccumented. Might be worth diging up some info in this area. Nauga Mok --part1_ad.35bbce0f.2cded172_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE= =3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">In a message dated 11/7/2003 7:06:17 AM Pacific Standa= rd Time, mail4dog@yahoo.com writes:<BR> <BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2= FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT= : 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Did they appear out west at all= ? what<BR> about what military units they did get issued to? <BR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D3= FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"><BR> What about Zebulon Pike's expedition? What did they carry? That=20= journey was problem laden as Louis & Clark's was trouble free. And= , since it wasn't the first expedition, it's not as well known or doccumente= d. Might be worth diging up some info in this area.<BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D4= FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT" FACE=3D"Mistral" LANG=3D"0">Nauga Mok</FONT></HTML> --part1_ad.35bbce0f.2cded172_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: L&C rifles Date: 09 Nov 2003 11:08:28 -0700 (MST) Longshot, You are correct! That is the big question and can of worms I will not open. I've been watching this arguement for quite some time in the L&C talkes and I'm not convinced either way. I shoot a fusee. bb > If indeed it was an 'o3 model. > > > Longshot > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James and Sue Stone <jandsstone@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Northwoods Date: 09 Nov 2003 20:10:33 -0700 --------------070208080503040705060805 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Beaverboy, When it is quite cold, like -18, or even 5 or 7 above, animals act differently than they do when we are hunting them on the balmy days of September and October. I have this from two sources. First, a wildlife biologist and guide told me that waterfowl wait until it is a bit warmer to move about...like the same time of day we would consider moving about...mid day. another wildlife biologist source said that deer stay bedded until more comfortable times in the face of a storm or cold temps. Makes sense to me, I see many more moving waterfowl between 10 adn 2 when it is mostly frozen. I have seen plenty of deer in mid day during Idaho's muzzleloader season (November). Sparks beaverboy@sofast.net wrote: >SMB, >They weren't just the plews, they had the beaver in them too! > Got down to -18 below in the Sun River valley last night. I almost >didn't go to my stand this morning but you don't get deer watching >the Today show. > Well, I should have watched the the Today show because all I got was >cold toes! The bitter cold really makes the sound travel. The dry >snow squeaked when I hiked in. > People ask me all the time about beaver tails, I've never found any >references to them being used for anything but a meal. Not a big >deal to me. I have a knife sheath made of one too, but seldom use >it. Looks good though! > Stay warm, > BB > > > > > > > >>Well, Huzzaa to you!!! It's a good day when you get a sore back from >>carting >>off all those plews!! MMMM fresh bever stew............. I've served it >>to >>a few pilgrims who didn't know what it was. I'm now relegated to bringing >>the potato chips............... If you've never tried it that tail if >>skinned and dried tight then oiled will make a pretty durable knife sheath >>if you use it as an outer cover on a soft piece of leather. I have a >>new/old >>knife I'm planning on doing just that with. When I get some of the >>yellow >>toothed critters for my self. >> >>SMB >> >> >> >> >>>From: beaverboy@sofast.net >>>Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >>>To: hist_text@xmission.com >>>Subject: MtMan-List: The Northwoods >>>Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 20:27:28 -0700 (MST) >>> >>>Dear List, >>> Winter reared it's ugly head early here in north central >>>Montana. >>>Bitter cold and blowing snow for the last five days. It was 5 >>>degrees above when I got up at 5:00AM to go deer hunting. I was >>>up not ten minutes making coffee when I heard a rap on the front >>>door! It was the newspaper lady. She was stuck in a snow drift >>>nearby and needed a tow, she came to my house because my light >>>was on. It was the first time we met though I have passed her >>>many times in the early morning on my way to work. She was >>>running an hour behind schedule due to the snow. I usually pass >>>her around 3:30 - 4:00AM. She starts her work day at 1:00AM which >>>made me feel pretty good about my work hours. She's a >>>Grandmother, tough old gal! She was bundled up and had a >>>flashlight. I told her to knock anytime she was in a bind whether >>>the light was on or not. >>> I only have to hike a short distance from my home to hunt >>>whitetails which is why I can sleep in so late. I even have time >>>to enjoy some hot coffee and watch the news before leaving. The >>>weather the last three mornings has been bitter cold! This is the >>>weather they write about in the journals like that of Fort Clark >>>and Fort Union!! Bitter, bitter cold with a stiff north wind and >>>snow with deep drifts in spots! It's all I can do to sit in my >>>stand for an hour and a half before getting too cold. And I am >>>bundled up. Once I get moving I'm fine, but everyone knows it's >>>tough to hunt whitetails on the move. >>> I have to keep a close watch on my lock steel and blow snow from >>>it. >>> I decided not to set traps for the Red Drifters (red fox) yet as >>>it >>>is soo bitterly cold, I want his last day on earth to be a little >>>more comfortable. Remember, I'm an old softy now. I did wade out to >>>an island on the Missouri River yesterday and set 7 beaver traps. >>>These were all killer drowning sets so I did not worry about them. I >>>checked them this afternoon and had 6 beaver in the 7 traps! It >>>doesn't get much better than this! For those of you who don't know, >>>rolling a wet rat, mink or beaver in snow dries it instantly. You >>>have to take it quickly out of the water and put it right into the >>>snow and roll and rub it all over with snow. It will work too if >>>you ever take a spill in icy water and need to soak up some of the >>>water quick. >>> I had to make two trips off of the island with my trapping pack >>>loaded down. One trip it weighed 88 pounds not including ax. The >>>second trip it was 93 pounds. I couldn't even make it up the snowy >>>bank with the heavy pack. I had to take it off and push it up >>>ahead of me. >>> I rough skinned two of the smaller beaver right off so the dogs >>>could have fresh meat tonight. They are ravenous eaters in this >>>bitter cold. I cut off all four hams (8 total) and saved the >>>remaining carcass for cat trappers I know who use what's left for >>>bait. Nothing goes to waste in the north woods. >>> Life has been good for beaver boy. With 6 beaver in one night, I >>>guess I can go by beaverboy for another 6 month's anyway. >>> It's clear out now and I just checked my thermometer and its -10 >>>below at 8:00PM! Tomorrow's hunt should be interesting. >>> These are shining times! I'm having a hot toddy tonight and built >>>a >>>fire in the woodstove. Hey, I'm on vacation! Oh, and I took two >>>aspirins too. >>> Good luck to all of you down the trail, >>> beaverboy >>> >>> >>> >>>---------------------- >>>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >>> >>> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>Concerned that messages may bounce because your Hotmail account is over >>limit? Get Hotmail Extra Storage! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es >> >> >>---------------------- >>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >> >> >> > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > --------------070208080503040705060805 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1"> <title></title> </head> <body> Beaverboy,<br> When it is quite cold, like -18, or even 5 or 7 above, animals act differently than they do when we are hunting them on the balmy days of September and October. I have this from two sources.<br> First, a wildlife biologist and guide told me that waterfowl wait until it is a bit warmer to move about...like the same time of day we would consider moving about...mid day. another wildlife biologist source said that deer stay bedded until more comfortable times in the face of a storm or cold temps. Makes sense to me, I see many more moving waterfowl between 10 adn 2 when it is mostly frozen. I have seen plenty of deer in mid day during Idaho's muzzleloader season (November).<br> Sparks <br> <br> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:beaverboy@sofast.net">beaverboy@sofast.net</a> wrote:<br> <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid3310.67.1.66.198.1068050770.squirrel@webmail.sofast.net"> <pre wrap="">SMB, They weren't just the plews, they had the beaver in them too! Got down to -18 below in the Sun River valley last night. I almost didn't go to my stand this morning but you don't get deer watching the Today show. Well, I should have watched the the Today show because all I got was cold toes! The bitter cold really makes the sound travel. The dry snow squeaked when I hiked in. People ask me all the time about beaver tails, I've never found any references to them being used for anything but a meal. Not a big deal to me. I have a knife sheath made of one too, but seldom use it. Looks good though! Stay warm, BB </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">Well, Huzzaa to you!!! It's a good day when you get a sore back from carting off all those plews!! MMMM fresh bever stew............. I've served it to a few pilgrims who didn't know what it was. I'm now relegated to bringing the potato chips............... If you've never tried it that tail if skinned and dried tight then oiled will make a pretty durable knife sheath if you use it as an outer cover on a soft piece of leather. I have a new/old knife I'm planning on doing just that with. When I get some of the yellow toothed critters for my self. SMB </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:beaverboy@sofast.net">beaverboy@sofast.net</a> Reply-To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com</a> Dear List, Winter reared it’s ugly head early here in north central Montana. Bitter cold and blowing snow for the last five days. It was 5 degrees above when I got up at 5:00AM to go deer hunting. I was up not ten minutes making coffee when I heard a rap on the front door! It was the newspaper lady. She was stuck in a snow drift nearby and needed a tow, she came to my house because my light was on. It was the first time we met though I have passed her many times in the early morning on my way to work. She was running an hour behind schedule due to the snow. I usually pass her around 3:30 - 4:00AM. She starts her work day at 1:00AM which made me feel pretty good about my work hours. She’s a Grandmother, tough old gal! She was bundled up and had a flashlight. I told her to knock anytime she was in a bind whether the light was on or not. I only have to hike a short distance from my home to hunt whitetails which is why I can sleep in so late. I even have time to enjoy some hot coffee and watch the news before leaving. The weather the last three mornings has been bitter cold! This is the weather they write about in the journals like that of Fort Clark and Fort Union!! Bitter, bitter cold with a stiff north wind and snow with deep drifts in spots! It’s all I can do to sit in my stand for an hour and a half before getting too cold. And I am bundled up. Once I get moving I’m fine, but everyone knows it’s tough to hunt whitetails on the move. I have to keep a close watch on my lock steel and blow snow from it. I decided not to set traps for the Red Drifters (red fox) yet as it is soo bitterly cold, I want his last day on earth to be a little more comfortable. Remember, I’m an old softy now. I did wade out to an island on the Missouri River yesterday and set 7 beaver traps. These were all killer drowning sets so I did not worry about them. I checked them this afternoon and had 6 beaver in the 7 traps! It doesn’t get much better than this! For those of you who don’t know, rolling a wet rat, mink or beaver in snow dries it instantly. You have to take it quickly out of the water and put it right into the snow and roll and rub it all over with snow. It will work too if you ever take a spill in icy water and need to soak up some of the water quick. I had to make two trips off of the island with my trapping pack loaded down. One trip it weighed 88 pounds not including ax. The second trip it was 93 pounds. I couldn’t even make it up the snowy bank with the heavy pack. I had to take it off and push it up ahead of me. I rough skinned two of the smaller beaver right off so the dogs could have fresh meat tonight. They are ravenous eaters in this bitter cold. I cut off all four hams (8 total) and saved the remaining carcass for cat trappers I know who use what’s left for bait. Nothing goes to waste in the north woods. Life has been good for beaver boy. With 6 beaver in one night, I guess I can go by beaverboy for another 6 month’s anyway. It’s clear out now and I just checked my thermometer and its -10 below at 8:00PM! Tomorrow’s hunt should be interesting. These are shining times! I’m having a hot toddy tonight and built a fire in the woodstove. Hey, I’m on vacation! Oh, and I took two aspirins too. Good luck to all of you down the trail, beaverboy ---------------------- hist_text list info: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html">http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html</a> </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap="">_________________________________________________________________ Concerned that messages may bounce because your Hotmail account is over limit? Get Hotmail Extra Storage! <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es">http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es</a> ---------------------- hist_text list info: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html">http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html</a> </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""> ---------------------- hist_text list info: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html">http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html</a> </pre> </blockquote> <br> </body> </html> --------------070208080503040705060805-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Larry" <L.Renney@bresnan.net> Subject: MtMan-List: bedding Date: 09 Nov 2003 22:09:08 -0700 for bedding, the best thing appears to be a buffalo robe. unfortunately not all of us can afford a buffalo robe right off. (I am saving up my pennies and dimes though). so how do the alternates measure up? deer hide elk moose bear caribou what's the next best thing? larry ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "roger lahti" <amm1719@charter.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bedding Date: 09 Nov 2003 21:20:42 -0800 Larry, I don't have any experience using any of the others for a bed but other than the bear, the other critters will loose hair something fast as it breaks off easily. I hear that a brain tan deer/elk/moose/whatever hide holds it's hair well but not the commercial ones. A thick bear robe would be good. Before I got my buffalo robe this spring I did give thought over the years of sewing up some sheep robes into a bed roll but I think they would have been very heavy by the time I got enough to roll up in. I've used a trimmed down sheep skin as a sleeping pad (3/4 pad) and that helps but it is pretty heavy even then and is extra weight when two blankets in a canvas bed roll or one buffalo rob are enough for below freezing temps. Capt. Lahti' ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2003 9:09 PM > for bedding, the best thing appears to be a buffalo robe. unfortunately not > all of us can afford a buffalo robe right off. (I am saving up my pennies > and dimes though). so how do the alternates measure up? > deer hide > elk > moose > bear > caribou > what's the next best thing? > larry > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bedding Date: 10 Nov 2003 02:02:03 -0700 (MST) The best thing is wool blankets, in my opinion. I've never been extremely impressed with my bison robe. I gotta believe pound for pound, wool is the best. Plus the getting wet factor. Wool is cheap too. bb > for bedding, the best thing appears to be a buffalo robe. unfortunately > not > all of us can afford a buffalo robe right off. (I am saving up my > pennies > and dimes though). so how do the alternates measure up? > deer hide > elk > moose > bear > caribou > what's the next best thing? > larry > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ole Jensen <olebjensen@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bedding Date: 10 Nov 2003 08:11:57 -0700 Larry, A couple of months ago Sam's club had wool fleece on sale at 75.00 each that is about 125.00 less than a Hudson Bay blanket.. Ole On Sunday, November 9, 2003, at 10:09 PM, Larry wrote: > for bedding, the best thing appears to be a buffalo robe. > unfortunately not > all of us can afford a buffalo robe right off. (I am saving up my > pennies > and dimes though). so how do the alternates measure up? > deer hide > elk > moose > bear > caribou > what's the next best thing? > larry > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bedding Date: 10 Nov 2003 12:20:25 EST Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/10/2003 1:02:34 AM Pacific Standard Time, beaverboy@sofast.net writes: I've never been extremely impressed with my bison robe. Hmmmm..... Beaver, your robe must be a summer kill, or at least not prime. The brain tan buffalo robe I got a couple years ago with Bead, is far and away the best blanket I've ever had. I've slept on frozen ground with just a drop cloth, a sheep skin for a pad, and the robe for a blanket and think the temp was down around 10 degrees in the morning. Only time I was cold was when I kicked the robe off for being too warm. I wore my clothes then (mostly wool) and mocs mainly because I wanted to get up before light, and go hunting. A couple weeks ago at a camp with Crawdad, it got down to freezing and I slept near nakid under the stars with only the robe for cover..... My onlyest bitch is when it's real cold.... I have to pull the hide over my head, and sometimes feel like I may suffocate unless I lift a conner for fresh air. Actually.... I also get a little tired of spitting out hair balls once in a while too, but a small price to pay...<G> So..... my ideal winter nest would be a good water proof ground cloth, a thick sheep skin pad, a folded wool blanket to sleep on, (nice ground insulation) and the brain tan buffalo hide. If it gets real cold, I'd sleep with dry clothes on, and need to get a wool "wolf ear" cap with ties for head cover, because my wool cap keeps falling off... Too bad your robe ain't warm, cause nearly everyone I know swears by them.... Magpie Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML><HEAD> <META charset=3DUTF-8 http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charse= t=3Dutf-8"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2730.1700" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff= f"> <DIV> <DIV>In a message dated 11/10/2003 1:02:34 AM Pacific Standard Time, beaverb= oy@sofast.net writes:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20= 2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>I've never been extremely<BR>impressed with my= bison robe. </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> <DIV>Hmmmm..... Beaver, your robe must be a summer kill, or at least no= t prime. The brain tan buffalo robe I got a couple years ago with Bead, is f= ar and away the best blanket I've ever had. I've slept on frozen ground with= just a drop cloth, a sheep skin for a pad, and the robe for a blanket and t= hink the temp was down around 10 degrees in the morning. Only time I wa= s cold was when I kicked the robe off for being too warm. I wore my clothes=20= then (mostly wool) and mocs mainly because I wanted to get up before li= ght, and go hunting.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A couple weeks ago at a camp with Crawdad, it got down to freezing and=20= I slept near nakid under the stars with only the robe for cover...= .. My onlyest bitch is when it's real cold.... I have to pull the=20= hide over my head, and sometimes feel like I may suffocate unless I lif= t a conner for fresh air. Actually.... I also get a little tired of spitting= out hair balls once in a while too, but a small price to pay...<G></D= IV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So..... my ideal winter nest would be a good water proof ground cloth,=20= a thick sheep skin pad, a folded wool blanket to sleep on, (nice ground= insulation) and the brain tan buffalo hide. If it gets real cold, I'd sleep= with dry clothes on, and need to get a wool "wolf ear" cap with ties for he= ad cover, because my wool cap keeps falling off... </= DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Too bad your robe ain't warm, cause nearly everyone I know swears by th= em....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Magpie</DIV></BODY></HTML> ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "roger lahti" <amm1719@charter.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bedding Date: 10 Nov 2003 09:42:26 -0800 I got to agree with bb on bison robes being a pain if they get wet. But I suspect that, well I know my robe is warmer than an equivalent weight of wool blanket. To make the blankets warm at all you still need some sort of air barrier like a canvas bed roll to cut the air movement by the blanket. The robe comes with it's own barrier but it's not water repellent at all. Brain tan is very light though when done right with plenty of hide shaving to get it thin as possible. I still have good use for my wool blankets. Capt. Lahti ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LazyAceAZ@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Sheepskin Sleeping Robes Date: 10 Nov 2003 17:04:23 EST Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have been using a sheepskin sleeping robe lately. I acquired 6 shearling hides measuring about 6 sq ft each with 1/2 to 3/4 wool. Stitched them together, folded over and thonged around the outside edge every 4 inches - makes like a sleeping bag! Finished size came out to be 34 x 73 - plenty of room to stretch out in. Completed, it weighs in at 9 pounds and folds to about the same as a comparable buffalo robe. "Test driving" the robe - I've taken it out and sleeping in the southwest desert here - I've been perfectly warm in weather down to 26 deg sleeping nekkid! I tried it with 3 and 4 point blankets a time or two and have been a little too warm. As far as historical - well, "mountaineers" used sheepskin epishamores - documentation a plenty! Sheepskins have been used for sleeping for centuries - used by ancient Romans and Greeks. Ewing Young was to have traded "Fine woven blankets and tanned sheepskins" from the Utes and Navajoes out of Taos in the 30's - I assume (there's that word again) that sheep had been acquired from the Mexicans in New Mexico. Ace "the Chief" Emanuel AZ State COHT Rep Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML><HEAD> <META charset=3DUTF-8 http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charse= t=3Dutf-8"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2733.1800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff= f"> <DIV>I have been using a sheepskin sleeping robe lately. I acquired 6=20= shearling hides measuring about 6 sq ft each with 1/2 to 3/4 wool. Sti= tched them together, folded over and thonged around the outside edge every 4= inches - makes like a sleeping bag! Finished size came out to be 34 x= 73 - plenty of room to stretch out in. Completed, it weighs in at= 9 pounds and folds to about the same as a comparable buffalo robe.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"Test driving" the robe - I've taken it out and sleeping in the southwe= st desert here - I've been perfectly warm in weather down to 26 deg sleeping= nekkid! I tried it with 3 and 4 point blankets a time or two and have= been a little too warm. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As far as historical - well, "mountaineers" used sheepskin epishamores=20= - documentation a plenty! Sheepskins have been used for sleeping for c= enturies - used by ancient Romans and Greeks. Ewing Young was to have=20= traded "Fine woven blankets and tanned sheepskins" from the Utes and Navajoe= s out of Taos in the 30's - I assume (there's that word again) that sheep ha= d been acquired from the Mexicans in New Mexico.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> = ; &nb= sp; &= nbsp; = ; &nb= sp; Ace "t= he Chief" Emanuel</DIV> <DIV> = ; &nb= sp; &= nbsp; = ; &nb= sp; AZ Sta= te COHT Rep</DIV></BODY></HTML> ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" <admiller@citynet.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Calling Frenchtown Sean Date: 10 Nov 2003 17:31:13 -0500 Sure... :)) email for the MLML is seanbear@charter.net .... Or... you can use my regular email aomiller@charter.net .... Regards, Ad Miller ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 1:20 PM > Sean, > Can you contact me off list. I lost your address. > Thanks > Beaverboy > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James and Sue Stone <jandsstone@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bedding Date: 10 Nov 2003 17:21:49 -0700 --------------090401090206040906040205 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've had no problem keeping a hat on my head when it's cold. Seems like my head seeks out that warmth when it is out in the cold... Sparks SWcushing@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 11/10/2003 1:02:34 AM Pacific Standard Time, > beaverboy@sofast.net writes: > > I've never been extremely > impressed with my bison robe. > > Hmmmm..... Beaver, your robe must be a summer kill, or at least not > prime. The brain tan buffalo robe I got a couple years ago with Bead, > is far and away the best blanket I've ever had. I've slept on frozen > ground with just a drop cloth, a sheep skin for a pad, and the robe > for a blanket and think the temp was down around 10 degrees in the > morning. Only time I was cold was when I kicked the robe off for being > too warm. I wore my clothes then (mostly wool) and mocs mainly because > I wanted to get up before light, and go hunting. > > A couple weeks ago at a camp with Crawdad, it got down to freezing and > I slept near nakid under the stars with only the robe for > cover..... My onlyest bitch is when it's real cold.... I have to pull > the hide over my head, and sometimes feel like I may suffocate unless > I lift a conner for fresh air. Actually.... I also get a little tired > of spitting out hair balls once in a while too, but a small price to > pay...<G> > > So..... my ideal winter nest would be a good water proof ground cloth, > a thick sheep skin pad, a folded wool blanket to sleep on, (nice > ground insulation) and the brain tan buffalo hide. If it gets real > cold, I'd sleep with dry clothes on, and need to get a wool "wolf ear" > cap with ties for head cover, because my wool cap keeps falling off... > > Too bad your robe ain't warm, cause nearly everyone I know swears by > them.... > > Magpie --------------090401090206040906040205 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1"> <title></title> </head> <body> I've had no problem keeping a hat on my head when it's cold. Seems like my head seeks out that warmth when it is out in the cold...<br> Sparks<br> <br> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:SWcushing@aol.com">SWcushing@aol.com</a> wrote:<br> <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid148.1c32322a.2ce122d9@aol.com"> <meta charset="UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; "> <meta content="MSHTML 6.00.2730.1700" name="GENERATOR"> <div> <div>In a message dated 11/10/2003 1:02:34 AM Pacific Standard Time, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:beaverboy@sofast.net">beaverboy@sofast.net</a> writes:</div> <blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid blue; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px;"><font face="Arial">I've never been extremely<br> impressed with my bison robe. </font></blockquote> </div> <div>Hmmmm..... Beaver, your robe must be a summer kill, or at least not prime. The brain tan buffalo robe I got a couple years ago with Bead, is far and away the best blanket I've ever had. I've slept on frozen ground with just a drop cloth, a sheep skin for a pad, and the robe for a blanket and think the temp was down around 10 degrees in the morning. Only time I was cold was when I kicked the robe off for being too warm. I wore my clothes then (mostly wool) and mocs mainly because I wanted to get up before light, and go hunting.</div> <div> </div> <div>A couple weeks ago at a camp with Crawdad, it got down to freezing and I slept near nakid under the stars with only the robe for cover..... My onlyest bitch is when it's real cold.... I have to pull the hide over my head, and sometimes feel like I may suffocate unless I lift a conner for fresh air. Actually.... I also get a little tired of spitting out hair balls once in a while too, but a small price to pay...<G></div> <div> </div> <div>So..... my ideal winter nest would be a good water proof ground cloth, a thick sheep skin pad, a folded wool blanket to sleep on, (nice ground insulation) and the brain tan buffalo hide. If it gets real cold, I'd sleep with dry clothes on, and need to get a wool "wolf ear" cap with ties for head cover, because my wool cap keeps falling off... </div> <div> </div> <div>Too bad your robe ain't warm, cause nearly everyone I know swears by them....</div> <div> </div> <div>Magpie</div> </blockquote> <br> </body> </html> --------------090401090206040906040205-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randal Bublitz" <rjbublitz@earthlink.net> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: bedding Date: 10 Nov 2003 16:59:11 -0800 Larry, I have a braintanned buffalo robe (winter kill cow, from Wes Housler-New Mex.). I , too, swear by it. I have slept in near 0 temps with it, a canvas tarp, and a wool blanket- and woke up warm and cozy. Before the buff robe, I have used a sheep skin as padding, and ground insulation, and highly recommend a sheep skin. I have used an elk robe, but the hair is brittle and breaks off (making you feel like having had a fresh hair cut- scratchy). I solved this by using the elk to lay on top of, with a mexican saddle blanket over it. Half of the trick to beating the cold is having insulation under you, as well as a cover over you. I agree that a wool blanket works better when combined with a piece of tarp to keep the air flow down. The best/ cheapest bed roll I have used is a 10 X 10' tarp, a sheep skin and a good wool blanket or two. Lay the tarp down, put the sheepskin wool side up on half the tarp. lay the blankets out flat on top of the sheep skin. Lay down (with tarp, sheepskin, blankets under you) fold blanket(s) over you with other half of tarp. This arrangement works pretty good for me. The buffalo robe , tarp and maybe a blanket works better for me. It was hard to spend so much money for a good brain tanned buff robe, but I don't regret it now that I have one. Yfab, Randy > [Original Message] > From: Larry <L.Renney@bresnan.net> > To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> > Date: 11/9/03 9:09:32 PM > Subject: MtMan-List: bedding > > for bedding, the best thing appears to be a buffalo robe. unfortunately not > all of us can afford a buffalo robe right off. (I am saving up my pennies > and dimes though). so how do the alternates measure up? > deer hide > elk > moose > bear > caribou > what's the next best thing? > larry > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "roger lahti" <amm1719@charter.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bedding Date: 10 Nov 2003 17:02:07 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00CB_01C3A7AC.5F71E8A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sparks, et.al.,=20 I've never had much success with a stocking cap but since I got me a = Scottish tam from Jas Townsend and sons, I've not had a problem keeping = it on all night. It may end up turned around a couple times but it's = always there where I left it. <G> Capt. Lahti ------=_NextPart_000_00CB_01C3A7AC.5F71E8A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD><TITLE></TITLE> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type = content=3Dtext/html;charset=3DISO-8859-1> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1170" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sparks, et.al., </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've never had much success with a = stocking cap but=20 since I got me a Scottish tam from Jas Townsend and sons, I've not had a = problem=20 keeping it on all night. It may end up turned around a couple times but = it's=20 always there where I left it. <G></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Capt. Lahti</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_00CB_01C3A7AC.5F71E8A0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bedding Date: 10 Nov 2003 18:21:51 -0700 (MST) > Hmmmm..... Beaver, your robe must be a summer kill, or at least not prime. Magpie, My robe came from Yellowstone Park in the winter when they were in there shooting them and selling the hides a few years back. I was a furbuyer for 10 years, I could spot, smell or taste a summer hide or flat pelt in the dark a 1/2 mile away. No, it's a winter hide and from Yellowstone Park. It's the real thing. 6'x6' or 36' square feet. It is commercially tanned which makes it heavier than brain tanned but only rich pilots and retired Colonel biologist can afford prime brain tanned bison hides. (just kidding) Most people cannot afford a hide tanned by Wes. I know Larry is a poor trapper like beaverboy. Any wet bison hide regardless of how it is tanned weighs a lot and does not retain it's insulation like wool does when wet, nothing does. Plus wool dries much faster than any type of wet hide ever will. I love wool above all other fabrics on this earth!!!!!! But hey, thats just my opinion. I don't care what anyone uses in their camp. If bison is so great why is everyone wearing wool copotes and not bison robe coats? Capt., I use a canvas mantee cloth for wind and moisture protection no matter which bedding I use. If bison robes were so great, why did every Indian want wool blankets??? It wasn't just all the pretty colors. Larry, I suggest you just buy some white surplus English hospital blankets (without the blue stripe if you can find them) Or some other historically correct color blanket and buy five or six of them. You can find them cheap all over. Also, do you notice how many campers use a wool blanket with their bison robes? Maybe thats why they seem so warm???? Stay warm, bb ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" <admiller@citynet.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Calling Frenchtown Sean Date: 10 Nov 2003 20:31:31 -0500 Oops... wrong person... sorry.... Ad ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 5:31 PM > Sure... :)) email for the MLML is seanbear@charter.net .... > > Or... you can use my regular email aomiller@charter.net .... > > Regards, > > Ad Miller > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" <admiller@citynet.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Crass Commercial Announcement Date: 10 Nov 2003 20:44:02 -0500 Speaking of "Commercial" announcements... I have a tent that I want to sell. It is a 13x13 Markee (one pole) with 7' walls, a 10x13 add-a-room, and a 10x16 fly. The tent and add-a-room were made by Al Levins, the Fly by Panther. The tent is about 3 years old, and the add-a-room was bought this year. They fly is about 7 years old, but literally does not show it, and is still very serviceable. Total cost of these items was about $2000. Asking price is $1400 plus shipping. If you come to Alderson, WV to pick it up, I'll include the poles. Not sure what shipping will be, but it will be in 3-4 boxes via UPS, and roughly 100 pounds. Anyone interested, go to www.ups.com and put in your zip code, my zip code (24910), and 100# weight. There will be pictures of it up on my web site in a couple of days. URL will be www.geocities.com/ronnyvous/tent. Regards, Ad Miller ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bedding Date: 10 Nov 2003 21:26:33 EST Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/10/2003 5:31:24 PM Pacific Standard Time, beaverboy@sofast.net writes: If bison is so great why is everyone wearing wool copotes and not bison robe coats? Because they use the robe to sleep under? <G> Naw, pretty hard to beat wool for most anything, but if things get ugly, I go with the robe. And, if I hadn't shot a buffalo and sold my kids into slavery to have it brain tanned, I'd be sleeping under a bunch of wool blankets too! Crazy has probably as much time fighting frost bite as any.... how do you stay warm, ya ole' Cyot? Magpie Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML><HEAD> <META charset=3DUTF-8 http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charse= t=3Dutf-8"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2730.1700" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff= f"> <DIV> <DIV>In a message dated 11/10/2003 5:31:24 PM Pacific Standard Time, beaverb= oy@sofast.net writes:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20= 2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>If bison is so great why is everyone wearing w= ool copotes and not bison<BR>robe coats?</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> <DIV>Because they use the robe to sleep under? <G> N= aw, pretty hard to beat wool for most anything, but if things get ugly, I go= with the robe. And, if I hadn't shot a buffalo and sold my kids into slaver= y to have it brain tanned, I'd be sleeping under a bunch of wool blankets to= o!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Crazy has probably as much time fighting frost bite as any.... how do y= ou stay warm, ya ole' Cyot?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Magpie</DIV></BODY></HTML> ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bedding Date: 10 Nov 2003 19:47:21 -0700 (MST) Or maybe no one wants to be the first one to cut up a $600 dollar robe for a coat! I will, as soon as I win the lottery. bb > If bison is so great why is everyone wearing wool copotes and not bison > robe coats? > Because they use the robe to sleep under? <G> Naw, pretty hard to beat > wool for most anything, but if things get ugly, I go with the robe. And, > if I > hadn't shot a buffalo and sold my kids into slavery to have it brain > tanned, I'd > be sleeping under a bunch of wool blankets too! > > Crazy has probably as much time fighting frost bite as any.... how do you > stay warm, ya ole' Cyot? > > Magpie > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James and Sue Stone <jandsstone@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bedding Date: 10 Nov 2003 19:50:44 -0700 --------------010809070305090706080309 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Beaverboy, I am impressed with your answer. I love wool myself, and still prefer wool layers in any nasty kind of weather for most things. Of course, Mrs. Stone, Knitting Woman, will also agree with your point of view. I have a hair-on commercial tanned elk skin that I shot off a Utah elk in late November a few years back. I think I'd rather carry wool than pack the elk skin around in the woods. I was an "exclusively natural fibers" guy--particularly wool, cotton and down--until recently. Now I add some manmade fibers for special uses...like for waterfowling/camo purposes and in-the-weather type kayaking gear (i.e. neoprenes). Of course, I'd never consider using the off-century fibers in a pre-1840 era reenactment. Sparks and Mrs. Stone beaverboy@sofast.net wrote: >>Hmmmm..... Beaver, your robe must be a summer kill, or at least not prime. >> >> > >Magpie, > My robe came from Yellowstone Park in the winter when they were in >there shooting them and selling the hides a few years back. > I was a furbuyer for 10 years, I could spot, smell or taste a summer >hide or flat pelt in the dark a 1/2 mile away. No, it's a winter hide >and from Yellowstone Park. It's the real thing. 6'x6' or 36' square >feet. > It is commercially tanned which makes it heavier than brain tanned but >only rich pilots and retired Colonel biologist can afford prime brain >tanned bison hides. (just kidding) Most people cannot afford a hide >tanned by Wes. > I know Larry is a poor trapper like beaverboy. > Any wet bison hide regardless of how it is tanned weighs a lot and does >not retain it's insulation like wool does when wet, nothing does. Plus >wool dries much faster than any type of wet hide ever will. I love wool >above all other fabrics on this earth!!!!!! But hey, thats just my >opinion. I don't care what anyone uses in their camp. > If bison is so great why is everyone wearing wool copotes and not bison >robe coats? > Capt., I use a canvas mantee cloth for wind and moisture protection no >matter which bedding I use. > If bison robes were so great, why did every Indian want wool >blankets??? It wasn't just all the pretty colors. > Larry, I suggest you just buy some white surplus English hospital >blankets (without the blue stripe if you can find them) Or some other >historically correct color blanket and buy five or six of them. You can >find them cheap all over. > Also, do you notice how many campers use a wool blanket with their >bison robes? Maybe thats why they seem so warm???? > Stay warm, > bb > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > --------------010809070305090706080309 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1"> <title></title> </head> <body> Beaverboy,<br> I am impressed with your answer. I love wool myself, and still prefer wool layers in any nasty kind of weather for most things. Of course, Mrs. Stone, Knitting Woman, will also agree with your point of view. I have a hair-on commercial tanned elk skin that I shot off a Utah elk in late November a few years back. I think I'd rather carry wool than pack the elk skin around in the woods.<br> <br> I was an "exclusively natural fibers" guy--particularly wool, cotton and down--until recently. Now I add some manmade fibers for special uses...like for waterfowling/camo purposes and in-the-weather type kayaking gear (i.e. neoprenes). Of course, I'd never consider using the off-century fibers in a pre-1840 era reenactment.<br> <br> Sparks and Mrs. Stone<br> <br> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:beaverboy@sofast.net">beaverboy@sofast.net</a> wrote:<br> <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid3168.67.1.75.78.1068513711.squirrel@webmail.sofast.net"> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">Hmmmm..... Beaver, your robe must be a summer kill, or at least not prime. </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""> Magpie, My robe came from Yellowstone Park in the winter when they were in there shooting them and selling the hides a few years back. I was a furbuyer for 10 years, I could spot, smell or taste a summer hide or flat pelt in the dark a 1/2 mile away. No, it's a winter hide and from Yellowstone Park. It's the real thing. 6'x6' or 36' square feet. It is commercially tanned which makes it heavier than brain tanned but only rich pilots and retired Colonel biologist can afford prime brain tanned bison hides. (just kidding) Most people cannot afford a hide tanned by Wes. I know Larry is a poor trapper like beaverboy. Any wet bison hide regardless of how it is tanned weighs a lot and does not retain it's insulation like wool does when wet, nothing does. Plus wool dries much faster than any type of wet hide ever will. I love wool above all other fabrics on this earth!!!!!! But hey, thats just my opinion. I don't care what anyone uses in their camp. If bison is so great why is everyone wearing wool copotes and not bison robe coats? Capt., I use a canvas mantee cloth for wind and moisture protection no matter which bedding I use. If bison robes were so great, why did every Indian want wool blankets??? It wasn't just all the pretty colors. Larry, I suggest you just buy some white surplus English hospital blankets (without the blue stripe if you can find them) Or some other historically correct color blanket and buy five or six of them. You can find them cheap all over. Also, do you notice how many campers use a wool blanket with their bison robes? Maybe thats why they seem so warm???? Stay warm, bb ---------------------- hist_text list info: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html">http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html</a> </pre> </blockquote> <br> </body> </html> --------------010809070305090706080309-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James and Sue Stone <jandsstone@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bedding Date: 10 Nov 2003 19:53:29 -0700 --------------030207050508040606020908 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Actually, what I was using was NOT in a pre-1840 setting, and was in fact a wool fedora. The most important thing is to not wear it like a hat. It feels strange to have a hat parked like you're walking around, while you are laying down. What I do, is use it like my head's own little blanket. Mrs. Stone picked up some soft hats the other day so we could 'practice.' If I learn anything profound I'll let you know. Sparks roger lahti wrote: > Sparks, et.al., > > I've never had much success with a stocking cap but since I got me a > Scottish tam from Jas Townsend and sons, I've not had a problem > keeping it on all night. It may end up turned around a couple times > but it's always there where I left it. <G> > > Capt. Lahti > > > --------------030207050508040606020908 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1"> <title></title> </head> <body> Actually, what I was using was NOT in a pre-1840 setting, and was in fact a wool fedora. The most important thing is to not wear it like a hat. It feels strange to have a hat parked like you're walking around, while you are laying down. What I do, is use it like my head's own little blanket. Mrs. Stone picked up some soft hats the other day so we could 'practice.' If I learn anything profound I'll let you know.<br> Sparks<br> <br> roger lahti wrote:<br> <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid00ce01c3a7ef$6e1d1d50$e9037444@x2d1a5"> <title></title> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1"> <meta content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1170" name="GENERATOR"> <style></style> <div><font face="Arial" size="2">Sparks, et.al., </font></div> <div> </div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2">I've never had much success with a stocking cap but since I got me a Scottish tam from Jas Townsend and sons, I've not had a problem keeping it on all night. It may end up turned around a couple times but it's always there where I left it. <G></font></div> <div> </div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2">Capt. Lahti</font></div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div> </div> </blockquote> <br> </body> </html> --------------030207050508040606020908-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James and Sue Stone <jandsstone@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bedding Date: 10 Nov 2003 19:57:08 -0700 --------------090507070100080703000703 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just out of curiosity, which side of the hide do ya'll sleep on--fleshy side or hair side? Sparks Randal Bublitz wrote: >Larry, I have a braintanned buffalo robe (winter kill cow, from Wes >Housler-New Mex.). I , too, swear by it. I have slept in near 0 temps >with it, a canvas tarp, and a wool blanket- and woke up warm and cozy. >Before the buff robe, I have used a sheep skin as padding, and ground >insulation, and highly recommend a sheep skin. I have used an elk robe, but >the hair is brittle and breaks off (making you feel like having had a fresh >hair cut- scratchy). I solved this by using the elk to lay on top of, with >a mexican saddle blanket over it. Half of the trick to beating the cold is >having insulation under you, as well as a cover over you. I agree that a >wool blanket works better when combined with a piece of tarp to keep the >air flow down. The best/ cheapest bed roll I have used is a 10 X 10' tarp, >a sheep skin and a good wool blanket or two. Lay the tarp down, put the >sheepskin wool side up on half the tarp. lay the blankets out flat on top >of the sheep skin. Lay down (with tarp, sheepskin, blankets under you) >fold blanket(s) over you with other half of tarp. This arrangement works >pretty good for me. The buffalo robe , tarp and maybe a blanket works >better for me. It was hard to spend so much money for a good brain tanned >buff robe, but I don't regret it now that I have one. Yfab, Randy > > > > >>[Original Message] >>From: Larry <L.Renney@bresnan.net> >>To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> >>Date: 11/9/03 9:09:32 PM >>Subject: MtMan-List: bedding >> >>for bedding, the best thing appears to be a buffalo robe. unfortunately >> >> >not > > >>all of us can afford a buffalo robe right off. (I am saving up my >> >> >pennies > > >>and dimes though). so how do the alternates measure up? >>deer hide >>elk >>moose >>bear >>caribou >>what's the next best thing? >>larry >> >> >> >> >>---------------------- >>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >> >> > > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > --------------090507070100080703000703 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1"> <title></title> </head> <body> Just out of curiosity, which side of the hide do ya'll sleep on--fleshy side or hair side?<br> Sparks<br> <br> Randal Bublitz wrote:<br> <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid410-220031121105911400@earthlink.net"> <pre wrap="">Larry, I have a braintanned buffalo robe (winter kill cow, from Wes Housler-New Mex.). I , too, swear by it. I have slept in near 0 temps with it, a canvas tarp, and a wool blanket- and woke up warm and cozy. Before the buff robe, I have used a sheep skin as padding, and ground insulation, and highly recommend a sheep skin. I have used an elk robe, but the hair is brittle and breaks off (making you feel like having had a fresh hair cut- scratchy). I solved this by using the elk to lay on top of, with a mexican saddle blanket over it. Half of the trick to beating the cold is having insulation under you, as well as a cover over you. I agree that a wool blanket works better when combined with a piece of tarp to keep the air flow down. The best/ cheapest bed roll I have used is a 10 X 10' tarp, a sheep skin and a good wool blanket or two. Lay the tarp down, put the sheepskin wool side up on half the tarp. lay the blankets out flat on top of the sheep skin. Lay down (with tarp, sheepskin, blankets under you) fold blanket(s) over you with other half of tarp. This arrangement works pretty good for me. The buffalo robe , tarp and maybe a blanket works better for me. It was hard to spend so much money for a good brain tanned buff robe, but I don't regret it now that I have one. Yfab, Randy </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">[Original Message] for bedding, the best thing appears to be a buffalo robe. unfortunately </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap="">not </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">all of us can afford a buffalo robe right off. (I am saving up my </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap="">pennies </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">and dimes though). so how do the alternates measure up? deer hide elk moose bear caribou what's the next best thing? larry ---------------------- hist_text list info: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html">http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html</a> </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""> ---------------------- hist_text list info: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html">http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html</a> </pre> </blockquote> <br> </body> </html> --------------090507070100080703000703-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randal Bublitz" <rjbublitz@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bedding Date: 10 Nov 2003 19:54:42 -0800 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII ooops.... I lay the hide down with the hair up, so the hair is towards me underneath and over. Randy ----- Original Message ----- Sent: 11/10/03 6:57:20 PM Just out of curiosity, which side of the hide do ya'll sleep on--fleshy side or hair side? Sparks Randal Bublitz wrote: Larry, I have a braintanned buffalo robe (winter kill cow, from Wes Housler-New Mex.). I , too, swear by it. I have slept in near 0 temps with it, a canvas tarp, and a wool blanket- and woke up warm and cozy. Before the buff robe, I have used a sheep skin as padding, and ground insulation, and highly recommend a sheep skin. I have used an elk robe, but the hair is brittle and breaks off (making you feel like having had a fresh hair cut- scratchy). I solved this by using the elk to lay on top of, with a mexican saddle blanket over it. Half of the trick to beating the cold is having insulation under you, as well as a cover over you. I agree that a wool blanket works better when combined with a piece of tarp to keep the air flow down. The best/ cheapest bed roll I have used is a 10 X 10' tarp, a sheep skin and a good wool blanket or two. Lay the tarp down, put the sheepskin wool side up on half the tarp. lay the blankets out flat on top of the sheep skin. Lay down (with tarp, sheepskin, blankets under you) fold blanket(s) over you with other half of tarp. This arrangement works pretty good for me. The buffalo robe , tarp and maybe a blanket works better for me. It was hard to spend so much money for a good brain tanned buff robe, but I don't regret it now that I have one. Yfab, Randy [Original Message] for bedding, the best thing appears to be a buffalo robe. unfortunately not all of us can afford a buffalo robe right off. (I am saving up my pennies and dimes though). so how do the alternates measure up? deer hide elk moose bear caribou what's the next best thing? larry ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII <HTML style="FONT-SIZE: x-small; FONT-FAMILY: MS Sans Serif"><HEAD><TITLE></TITLE> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content=text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1> <META content="MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV>ooops.... I lay the hide down with the hair up, so the hair is towards me underneath and over. Randy</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt Arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=jandsstone@earthlink.net href="mailto:jandsstone@earthlink.net">James and Sue Stone</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To: </B><A title=hist_text@lists.xmission.com href="mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com</A></DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> 11/10/03 6:57:20 PM </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: bedding</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT size=2>Just out of curiosity, which side of the hide do ya'll sleep on--fleshy side or hair side?<BR>Sparks<BR><BR>Randal Bublitz wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE cite="mid410-220031121105911400@earthlink.net" type="cite"><PRE wrap="">Larry, I have a braintanned buffalo robe (winter kill cow, from Wes Housler-New Mex.). I , too, swear by it. I have slept in near 0 temps with it, a canvas tarp, and a wool blanket- and woke up warm and cozy. Before the buff robe, I have used a sheep skin as padding, and ground insulation, and highly recommend a sheep skin. I have used an elk robe, but the hair is brittle and breaks off (making you feel like having had a fresh hair cut- scratchy). I solved this by using the elk to lay on top of, with a mexican saddle blanket over it. Half of the trick to beating the cold is having insulation under you, as well as a cover over you. I agree that a wool blanket works better when combined with a piece of tarp to keep the air flow down. The best/ cheapest bed roll I have used is a 10 X 10' tarp, a sheep skin and a good wool blanket or two. Lay the tarp down, put the sheepskin wool side up on half the tarp. lay the blankets out flat on top of the sheep skin. Lay down (with tarp, sheepskin, blankets under you) fold blanket(s) over you with other half of tarp. This arrangement works pretty good for me. The buffalo robe , tarp and maybe a blanket works better for me. It was hard to spend so much money for a good brain tanned buff robe, but I don't regret it now that I have one. Yfab, Randy </PRE> <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE wrap="">[Original Message] for bedding, the best thing appears to be a buffalo robe. unfortunately </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE wrap="">not </PRE> <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE wrap="">all of us can afford a buffalo robe right off. (I am saving up my </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE wrap="">pennies </PRE> <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE wrap="">and dimes though). so how do the alternates measure up? deer hide elk moose bear caribou what's the next best thing? larry ---------------------- hist_text list info: <A class=moz-txt-link-freetext href="http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html">http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html</A> </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE wrap=""> ---------------------- hist_text list info: <A class=moz-txt-link-freetext href="http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html">http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html</A> </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "roger lahti" <amm1719@charter.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bedding Date: 10 Nov 2003 20:33:20 -0800 > It is commercially tanned which makes it heavier than brain tanned but > only rich pilots and retired Colonel biologist can afford prime brain > tanned bison hides. (just kidding) Most people cannot afford a hide > tanned by Wes. bb, Nail on the head, eh what?! Your right of course. Not many can afford a brain tanned buffalo robe and while they are warm, they are not perfect. I think it is more the "Having" than anything else. Kinda like any rightious piece of plunder. But it's limitations certainly include keeping it dry as you know. Be assured though, no one was deriding or belittleing anyones choice of blankets over a robe for whatever personal reasons. I use blankets. Magpie uses them. Wouldn't be without them. I had an opporunity to finally get a robe through Wes when we harvested that cow last Dec. and dug deep to do it. I'm not sorry but I surely could have gotten along famously without it. > If bison is so great why is everyone wearing wool copotes and not bison > robe coats? Expense no doubt. Capotes are cheap to build in comparison even if most are not cut and sewn with any great care to how they actually were made for the most part. No big deal either. > Capt., I use a canvas mantee cloth for wind and moisture protection no > matter which bedding I use. As do I. It just makes all the difference in the world on how well your "bedding" keeps you warm. Doesn't even really take a very heavy piece of cloth to do it, just enough that it will cut the air/wind movement past the wool. And it's advice I freely share with anyone looking for answers on how to sleep warm. Rolling up in nothing but a blanket back then had to be hard times in certain conditions. If all you had was one blanket and bison robes could be had for a knife or two then why not add one to your kit besides using bison robe for epishamore? Makes sense to me. > If bison robes were so great, why did every Indian want wool > blankets??? It wasn't just all the pretty colors. Well yes it was the pretty colors and more. The more part was that a blanket is something the white man had that worked well and was easily traded for along with the guns and pots and etc. that the Indian got along without for untold centuries. Modern technology. Got to have it. And pretty colors are thrown in almost as an afterthought but surely to catch the eye of people who live in anotherwise fairly drab world. They certainly craved color not only in the white mans blanket but in the beads and in their own decorations when they still used quills. If they had been available up north I am sure the N. American Native would have used the colorful feathers of his Central and South American cousin would he not? In many ways we are in love with the romance of "primitive" but most primitive societies seem to "jump" on the modern conveniences modern man can bring even if they later regret their "selling out". Not hard to understand why they liked and used wool blankets, not at all. > Larry, I suggest you just buy some white surplus English hospital > blankets (without the blue stripe if you can find them) Or some other > historically correct color blanket and buy five or six of them. Excellent advice. I'd caution that you can buy too cheap a "wool" blanket and get something that doesn't have much warmth left in it. Cavet Emptor. I don't even care for new Pendelton blankets much any more because of how they are made. Not as warm as a 100 % wool blanket and if your treking on foot you got to carry it. Shame to carry something less than the best. Just shoot for 100 % wool and as new as you can find. YMOS Capt. Lahti' ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "roger lahti" <amm1719@charter.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bedding Date: 10 Nov 2003 20:40:48 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_011E_01C3A7CA.EC1753D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if I am sleeping in my sleeping bag and not blankets or the robe, I = wear that tam. It has a draw string to adjust the head fit and I make it = loose enough to pull down over my ears. I sleep on my side rather than = on my back as some do BTW. That tam was certainly one of Scotland's = better ideas. Capt. Lahti' ------=_NextPart_000_011E_01C3A7CA.EC1753D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD><TITLE></TITLE> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type = content=3Dtext/html;charset=3DISO-8859-1> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1170" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Even if I am sleeping in my sleeping = bag and not=20 blankets or the robe, I wear that tam. It has a draw string to adjust = the head=20 fit and I make it loose enough to pull down over my ears. I sleep on my = side=20 rather than on my back as some do BTW. That tam was certainly one of = Scotland's=20 better ideas.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Capt. Lahti'</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_011E_01C3A7CA.EC1753D0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "roger lahti" <amm1719@charter.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bedding Date: 10 Nov 2003 20:41:41 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0128_01C3A7CB.0C1135C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hair side next to you.=20 Capt. Lahti' ----- Original Message -----=20 From: James and Sue Stone=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 6:57 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bedding Just out of curiosity, which side of the hide do ya'll sleep = on--fleshy side or hair side? Sparks ------=_NextPart_000_0128_01C3A7CB.0C1135C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD><TITLE></TITLE> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type = content=3Dtext/html;charset=3DISO-8859-1> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1170" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hair side next to you. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Capt. Lahti'</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Djandsstone@earthlink.net = href=3D"mailto:jandsstone@earthlink.net">James=20 and Sue Stone</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3Dhist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 = href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com= </A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, November 10, 2003 = 6:57=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: = bedding</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV>Just out of curiosity, which side of the hide do ya'll = sleep=20 on--fleshy side or hair = side?<BR>Sparks<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0128_01C3A7CB.0C1135C0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bedding Date: 11 Nov 2003 00:30:37 EST --part1_1ed.12ff50c3.2ce1cdfd_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello in the camp This has been an interesting line with a lot of good impute. Beaver Boy just to answer a few of your questions. As for Buffalo coats they are just to warm to ware is why I don't have or want one. They would be ideal to ware if you were just siting in the cold and not doing any thing. Once you stated to move around they are just to warm to ware. As for Indians wanting wool blankets, one they were like you and seen the value of wool when wet. Two was it was lighter weight and good for a summer or intermediate tempter wrap but when tempters get below zero nothing could beat buffalo. But I think the most important reason was the fact that it was something new to them that could not be gotten from nature there for a status symbol to them. As for the value of a buffalo robe I believe it was in the Lewis & Clark's journals while they were wintering at Fort Mandan. A couple of Indian hunters were out hunting and got caught out in a storm that was followed by bitter cold Lewis & Clark when the two returned alive made note of the only bedding they had was a Buffalo Robe that helped save their lives. The only reason I do not use two buffalo hides when out alone is they would be to warm to sleep in. I have used two when out with Jill one under us and one over us. With two blankets used the same way and some times an extra one on the real cold nights. An extra hide like sheep or elk or what ever under you can also make a lot of difference even with a buffalo hide granted this does make for a lot to carry on your back and that is why when the snow is too deep for horses I use a toboggan to get my camp in. As for Buffalo not being warm when wet that is true but that does not become a problem if ya don't get them wet and as a rule things stay dry when it is below freezing and that is when they are needed the most. But if one cannot afford a buffalo then by all means wool blankets are the way to go but still ya will want some sort of hair on hide to go under you to help insulate ya from the ground. The sheep hide rob sounds good also if ya got enough of them. As for army surplus blankets ya had better get a lot of them if that is the way ya go. Cause they are not near as warm as a good Whitney or Hudson Bay Blanket. But they need to be newer ones also cause old wool blankets lose there loft form all the washings as rule they have seen and they loose there ability to keep one as warm and do not hold up as well in wet condictiones from what I've seen. Oil cloth or canvas under and over ya is the way to go no matter what your bedding is and if it looks like a storm is coming one needs to make a shelter of some sort. As for head gear I have never been able to keep any of them on my head. ( This maybe due to the lack of hair to help hold hem on) so I just pull a wool blanket up over my head which I find to be warmer any way for you get to breath the warm air in your bed roll and do not have the cold air on your face. Hope to see ya all in winter camp some time. Crazy Cyot --part1_1ed.12ff50c3.2ce1cdfd_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>Hello in the camp <BR>This has been an interesting line with a lot of good impute. <BR>Beaver Boy just to answer a few of your questions. <BR>As for Buffalo coats they are just to warm to ware is why I don't have o= r want one. <BR>They would be ideal to ware if you were just siting in the cold and not=20= doing any thing. Once you stated to move around they are just to warm to war= e.=20 <BR> <BR>As for Indians wanting wool blankets, one they were like you and seen th= e value of wool when wet. Two was it was lighter weight and good for a summe= r or intermediate tempter wrap but when tempters get below zero nothing coul= d beat buffalo. <BR>But I think the most important reason was the fact that it was something= new to them that could not be gotten from nature there for a status symbol=20= to them. <BR>As for the value of a buffalo robe I believe it was in the Lewis & C= lark's journals while they were wintering at Fort Mandan. A couple of Indian= hunters were out hunting and got caught out in a storm that was followed by= bitter cold Lewis & Clark when the two returned alive made note of the=20= only bedding they had was a Buffalo Robe that helped save their lives. <BR> <BR>The only reason I do not use two buffalo hides when out alone is they wo= uld be to warm to sleep in. <BR>I have used two when out with Jill one under us and one over us. With tw= o blankets used the same way and some times an extra one on the real cold ni= ghts. <BR>An extra hide like sheep or elk or what ever under you can also make a l= ot of difference even with a buffalo hide granted this does make for a lot t= o carry on your back and that is why when the snow is too deep for horses I=20= use a toboggan to get my camp in.=20 <BR> <BR> <BR>As for Buffalo not being warm when wet that is true but that does not be= come a problem if ya don't get them wet and as a rule things stay dry when i= t is below freezing and that is when they are needed the most. <BR> <BR>But if one cannot afford a buffalo then by all means wool blankets are t= he way to go but still ya will want some sort of hair on hide to go under yo= u to help insulate ya from the ground. The sheep hide rob sounds good=20= also if ya got enough of them. <BR> As for army surplus blankets ya had better get a lot of them if that is= the way ya go. Cause they are not near as warm as a good Whitney or Hudson=20= Bay Blanket. But they need to be newer ones also cause old wool blankets los= e there loft form all the washings as rule they have seen and they loose the= re ability to keep one as warm and do not hold up as well in wet condictione= s from what I've seen. <BR> <BR>Oil cloth or canvas under and over ya is the way to go no matter what yo= ur bedding is and if it looks like a storm is coming one needs to make a she= lter of some sort. <BR> <BR>As for head gear I have never been able to keep any of them on my head.=20= ( This maybe due to the lack of hair to help hold hem on) so I just pull a w= ool blanket up over my head which I find to be warmer any way for you get to= breath the warm air in your bed roll and do not have the cold air on your f= ace. <BR> <BR> Hope to see ya all in winter camp some time. <BR>Crazy Cyot <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR></FONT></HTML> --part1_1ed.12ff50c3.2ce1cdfd_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Frank Fusco" <Rifleman1776@cox-internet.com> Subject: MtMan-List: bedding Date: 11 Nov 2003 08:13:56 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C3A82B.C08FB750 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Lahti wrote, <I hear that a brain tan deer/elk/moose/whatever hide = holds it's hair well but not the commercial ones> =20 I have a hair-on deer vest that I have been using since about 1973. = The hide was given to me by a friend and it has the thickest and longest = hair/fur I have ever seen from a deer. I had the hide commercially = tanned and it is still in excellent shape. It loses hair constantly but = from appearances you would never know it. Frank ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C3A82B.C08FB750 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1264" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV> Lahti wrote, <I hear that a brain tan=20 deer/elk/moose/whatever hide holds it's hair<BR>well but not the = commercial=20 ones></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> I have a hair-on deer vest that I have been = using since=20 about 1973. The hide was given to me by a friend and it has the thickest = and=20 longest hair/fur I have ever seen from a deer. I had the hide = commercially=20 tanned and it is still in excellent shape. It loses hair constantly but = from=20 appearances you would never know it.</DIV> <DIV>Frank</DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C3A82B.C08FB750-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: MtMan-List: Deer hides for winter use Date: 11 Nov 2003 11:19:00 EST --part1_157.2747ad4e.2ce265f4_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have found the hallow hair of Deer, Elk and Caribou very good for insulation come winter. They are bit messy from the air lose but can keep one warm even when wet. I have had winter Mocs made out of them both and found them to be very warm to ware even when wet. The leather on them wore out long before the hair lose became problem for warmth. They also make good insulation from the ground for your bed but like Randy said ya want to put an old blanket or something on top of them or you will have hair every where in your bed. Crazy Cyot --part1_157.2747ad4e.2ce265f4_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>I have found the hallow h= air of Deer, Elk and Caribou very good for insulation come winter. <BR>They are bit messy from the air lose but can keep one warm even when wet= . I have had winter Mocs made out of them both and found them to be very war= m to ware even when wet. The leather on them wore out long before the hair l= ose became problem for warmth. They also make good insulation from the groun= d for your bed but like Randy said ya want to put an old blanket or somethin= g on top of them or you will have hair every where in your bed. <BR> <BR>Crazy Cyot</FONT></HTML> --part1_157.2747ad4e.2ce265f4_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "roger lahti" <amm1719@charter.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bedding Date: 11 Nov 2003 08:32:01 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C3A82E.47478FA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thought for a minute that your experience proved what I had heard was = wrong but that's not the case. Commercially tanned hides hair on do seem = to loose hair one way or the other. Those few fellas I know who have = brain tanned hides hair on make note that they are not loosing hair nor = is it breaking off. I think there is something to this. Capt. Lahti' ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C3A82E.47478FA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1170" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thought for a minute that your = experience proved=20 what I had heard was wrong but that's not the case. Commercially tanned = hides=20 hair on do seem to loose hair one way or the other. Those few fellas I = know who=20 have brain tanned hides hair on make note that they are not loosing hair = nor is=20 it breaking off. I think there is something to this.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Capt. Lahti'</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C3A82E.47478FA0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James and Sue Stone <jandsstone@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bedding Date: 11 Nov 2003 19:10:09 -0700 --------------040309090707090005020502 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ...kinda what i figgered...thanks sparks roger lahti wrote: > Hair side next to you. > > Capt. Lahti' > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: James and Sue Stone <mailto:jandsstone@earthlink.net> > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > <mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com> > Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 6:57 PM > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bedding > > Just out of curiosity, which side of the hide do ya'll sleep > on--fleshy side or hair side? > Sparks > --------------040309090707090005020502 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1"> <title></title> </head> <body> ...kinda what i figgered...thanks<br> sparks<br> <br> roger lahti wrote:<br> <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid012b01c3a80e$1aaa1af0$e9037444@x2d1a5"> <title></title> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1"> <meta content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1170" name="GENERATOR"> <style></style> <div><font face="Arial" size="2">Hair side next to you. </font></div> <div> </div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2">Capt. Lahti'</font></div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0,0,0); padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;"> <div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none;">----- Original Message ----- </div> <div style="background: rgb(228,228,228) none repeat scroll 0%; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none;"><b>From:</b> <a title="jandsstone@earthlink.net" href="mailto:jandsstone@earthlink.net">James and Sue Stone</a> </div> <div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none;"><b>To:</b> <a title="hist_text@lists.xmission.com" href="mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com</a> </div> <div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none;"><b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 10, 2003 6:57 PM</div> <div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none;"><b>Subject:</b> Re: MtMan-List: bedding</div> <div><br> </div> Just out of curiosity, which side of the hide do ya'll sleep on--fleshy side or hair side?<br> Sparks<br> <br> </blockquote> </blockquote> <br> </body> </html> --------------040309090707090005020502-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Northwoods Date: 11 Nov 2003 19:10:16 -0700 (MST) Sparks, That extreme weather certainly makes the animals act differently! The predators really have to keep moving on days like that. I watched that Red Drifter mousing out in the neighbors field on that -18 degree morning and it was dancing around like it was a spring day! The deer and elk move a lot too until the warm morning sun starts to warm up the southern exposures some when they bed down. I could barely stay warm enough to sit on my stand for more than an hour and I was wearing three layers of clothing, I could barely shoulder my fusee in a normal way, I was so bundled up. I saw over 200 deer in several groups two days before the cold hit. They were all out feeding hard, they knew it was coming. It's going to get into the 50's this weekend. Quite a change, the snow all about melted on the flats and the ice is starting to go off. I'll go for a morning hunt tomorrow if it's not blowing too hard. Really blowing out now. Good luck down the trail, bb > Beaverboy, > When it is quite cold, like -18, or even 5 or 7 above, animals act > differently than they do when we are hunting them on the balmy days of > September and October. I have this from two sources. > First, a wildlife biologist and guide told me that waterfowl wait until > it is a bit warmer to move about...like the same time of day we would > consider moving about...mid day. another wildlife biologist source said > that deer stay bedded until more comfortable times in the face of a > storm or cold temps. Makes sense to me, I see many more moving > waterfowl between 10 adn 2 when it is mostly frozen. I have seen plenty > of deer in mid day during Idaho's muzzleloader season (November). > Sparks > > beaverboy@sofast.net wrote: > >>SMB, >>They weren't just the plews, they had the beaver in them too! >> Got down to -18 below in the Sun River valley last night. I almost >>didn't go to my stand this morning but you don't get deer watching >>the Today show. >> Well, I should have watched the the Today show because all I got >> was >>cold toes! The bitter cold really makes the sound travel. The dry >>snow squeaked when I hiked in. >> People ask me all the time about beaver tails, I've never found any >>references to them being used for anything but a meal. Not a big >>deal to me. I have a knife sheath made of one too, but seldom use >>it. Looks good though! >> Stay warm, >> BB >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>Well, Huzzaa to you!!! It's a good day when you get a sore back from >>>carting >>>off all those plews!! MMMM fresh bever stew............. I've served it >>>to >>>a few pilgrims who didn't know what it was. I'm now relegated to >>> bringing >>>the potato chips............... If you've never tried it that tail if >>>skinned and dried tight then oiled will make a pretty durable knife >>> sheath >>>if you use it as an outer cover on a soft piece of leather. I have a >>>new/old >>>knife I'm planning on doing just that with. When I get some of the >>>yellow >>>toothed critters for my self. >>> >>>SMB >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>From: beaverboy@sofast.net >>>>Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >>>>To: hist_text@xmission.com >>>>Subject: MtMan-List: The Northwoods >>>>Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 20:27:28 -0700 (MST) >>>> >>>>Dear List, >>>> Winter reared it's ugly head early here in north central >>>>Montana. >>>>Bitter cold and blowing snow for the last five days. It was 5 >>>>degrees above when I got up at 5:00AM to go deer hunting. I was >>>>up not ten minutes making coffee when I heard a rap on the front >>>>door! It was the newspaper lady. She was stuck in a snow drift >>>>nearby and needed a tow, she came to my house because my light >>>>was on. It was the first time we met though I have passed her >>>>many times in the early morning on my way to work. She was >>>>running an hour behind schedule due to the snow. I usually pass >>>>her around 3:30 - 4:00AM. She starts her work day at 1:00AM which >>>>made me feel pretty good about my work hours. She's a >>>>Grandmother, tough old gal! She was bundled up and had a >>>>flashlight. I told her to knock anytime she was in a bind whether >>>>the light was on or not. >>>> I only have to hike a short distance from my home to hunt >>>>whitetails which is why I can sleep in so late. I even have time >>>>to enjoy some hot coffee and watch the news before leaving. The >>>>weather the last three mornings has been bitter cold! This is the >>>>weather they write about in the journals like that of Fort Clark >>>>and Fort Union!! Bitter, bitter cold with a stiff north wind and >>>>snow with deep drifts in spots! It's all I can do to sit in my >>>>stand for an hour and a half before getting too cold. And I am >>>>bundled up. Once I get moving I'm fine, but everyone knows it's >>>>tough to hunt whitetails on the move. >>>> I have to keep a close watch on my lock steel and blow snow from >>>>it. >>>> I decided not to set traps for the Red Drifters (red fox) yet as >>>>it >>>>is soo bitterly cold, I want his last day on earth to be a little >>>>more comfortable. Remember, I'm an old softy now. I did wade out to >>>>an island on the Missouri River yesterday and set 7 beaver traps. >>>>These were all killer drowning sets so I did not worry about them. I >>>>checked them this afternoon and had 6 beaver in the 7 traps! It >>>>doesn't get much better than this! For those of you who don't know, >>>>rolling a wet rat, mink or beaver in snow dries it instantly. You >>>>have to take it quickly out of the water and put it right into the >>>>snow and roll and rub it all over with snow. It will work too if >>>>you ever take a spill in icy water and need to soak up some of the >>>>water quick. >>>> I had to make two trips off of the island with my trapping pack >>>>loaded down. One trip it weighed 88 pounds not including ax. The >>>>second trip it was 93 pounds. I couldn't even make it up the snowy >>>>bank with the heavy pack. I had to take it off and push it up >>>>ahead of me. >>>> I rough skinned two of the smaller beaver right off so the dogs >>>>could have fresh meat tonight. They are ravenous eaters in this >>>>bitter cold. I cut off all four hams (8 total) and saved the >>>>remaining carcass for cat trappers I know who use what's left for >>>>bait. Nothing goes to waste in the north woods. >>>> Life has been good for beaver boy. With 6 beaver in one night, I >>>>guess I can go by beaverboy for another 6 month's anyway. >>>> It's clear out now and I just checked my thermometer and its -10 >>>>below at 8:00PM! Tomorrow's hunt should be interesting. >>>> These are shining times! I'm having a hot toddy tonight and >>>> built >>>>a >>>>fire in the woodstove. Hey, I'm on vacation! Oh, and I took two >>>>aspirins too. >>>> Good luck to all of you down the trail, >>>> beaverboy >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>---------------------- >>>>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >>>> >>>> >>>_________________________________________________________________ >>>Concerned that messages may bounce because your Hotmail account is over >>>limit? Get Hotmail Extra Storage! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es >>> >>> >>>---------------------- >>>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >>> >>> >>> >> >> >>---------------------- >>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >> >> >> > > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James and Sue Stone <jandsstone@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bedding Date: 11 Nov 2003 19:18:12 -0700 --------------090404020509000409010208 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks! that's kinda what I figured, but just makin sure. Sparks Randal Bublitz wrote: > ooops.... I lay the hide down with the hair up, so the hair is > towards me underneath and over. Randy > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: James and Sue Stone <mailto:jandsstone@earthlink.net> > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com> > Sent: 11/10/03 6:57:20 PM > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bedding > > Just out of curiosity, which side of the hide do ya'll sleep > on--fleshy side or hair side? > Sparks > > Randal Bublitz wrote: > >>Larry, I have a braintanned buffalo robe (winter kill cow, from Wes >>Housler-New Mex.). I , too, swear by it. I have slept in near 0 temps >>with it, a canvas tarp, and a wool blanket- and woke up warm and cozy. >>Before the buff robe, I have used a sheep skin as padding, and ground >>insulation, and highly recommend a sheep skin. I have used an elk robe, but >>the hair is brittle and breaks off (making you feel like having had a fresh >>hair cut- scratchy). I solved this by using the elk to lay on top of, with >>a mexican saddle blanket over it. Half of the trick to beating the cold is >>having insulation under you, as well as a cover over you. I agree that a >>wool blanket works better when combined with a piece of tarp to keep the >>air flow down. The best/ cheapest bed roll I have used is a 10 X 10' tarp, >>a sheep skin and a good wool blanket or two. Lay the tarp down, put the >>sheepskin wool side up on half the tarp. lay the blankets out flat on top >>of the sheep skin. Lay down (with tarp, sheepskin, blankets under you) >>fold blanket(s) over you with other half of tarp. This arrangement works >>pretty good for me. The buffalo robe , tarp and maybe a blanket works >>better for me. It was hard to spend so much money for a good brain tanned >>buff robe, but I don't regret it now that I have one. Yfab, Randy >> >> >> >> >>>[Original Message] >>>From: Larry <L.Renney@bresnan.net> >>>To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> >>>Date: 11/9/03 9:09:32 PM >>>Subject: MtMan-List: bedding >>> >>>for bedding, the best thing appears to be a buffalo robe. unfortunately >>> >>> >>not >> >> >>>all of us can afford a buffalo robe right off. (I am saving up my >>> >>> >>pennies >> >> >>>and dimes though). so how do the alternates measure up? >>>deer hide >>>elk >>>moose >>>bear >>>caribou >>>what's the next best thing? >>>larry >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>---------------------- >>>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >>> >>> >> >> >> >>---------------------- >>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >> >> >> > --------------090404020509000409010208 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1"> <title></title> </head> <body> Thanks! that's kinda what I figured, but just makin sure.<br> Sparks<br> <br> Randal Bublitz wrote:<br> <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid410-220031121135442710@earthlink.net"> <title></title> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1"> <meta content="MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name="GENERATOR"> <div>ooops.... I lay the hide down with the hair up, so the hair is towards me underneath and over. Randy</div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0,0,0); padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px;"> <div style="font-family: Arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none;">----- Original Message ----- </div> <div style="background: rgb(228,228,228) none repeat scroll 0%; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none;"><b>From:</b> <a title="jandsstone@earthlink.net" href="mailto:jandsstone@earthlink.net">James and Sue Stone</a> </div> <div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none;"><b>To: </b><a title="hist_text@lists.xmission.com" href="mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com</a></div> <div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none;"><b>Sent:</b> 11/10/03 6:57:20 PM </div> <div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none;"><b>Subject:</b> Re: MtMan-List: bedding</div> <div><br> </div> <font size="2">Just out of curiosity, which side of the hide do ya'll sleep on--fleshy side or hair side?<br> Sparks<br> <br> Randal Bublitz wrote:<br> <blockquote cite="mid410-220031121105911400@earthlink.net" type="cite"> <pre wrap="">Larry, I have a braintanned buffalo robe (winter kill cow, from Wes Housler-New Mex.). I , too, swear by it. I have slept in near 0 temps with it, a canvas tarp, and a wool blanket- and woke up warm and cozy. Before the buff robe, I have used a sheep skin as padding, and ground insulation, and highly recommend a sheep skin. I have used an elk robe, but the hair is brittle and breaks off (making you feel like having had a fresh hair cut- scratchy). I solved this by using the elk to lay on top of, with a mexican saddle blanket over it. Half of the trick to beating the cold is having insulation under you, as well as a cover over you. I agree that a wool blanket works better when combined with a piece of tarp to keep the air flow down. The best/ cheapest bed roll I have used is a 10 X 10' tarp, a sheep skin and a good wool blanket or two. Lay the tarp down, put the sheepskin wool side up on half the tarp. lay the blankets out flat on top of the sheep skin. Lay down (with tarp, sheepskin, blankets under you) fold blanket(s) over you with other half of tarp. This arrangement works pretty good for me. The buffalo robe , tarp and maybe a blanket works better for me. It was hard to spend so much money for a good brain tanned buff robe, but I don't regret it now that I have one. Yfab, Randy </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">[Original Message] href="mailto:L.Renney@bresnan.net"><L.Renney@bresnan.net></a> href="mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com"><hist_text@lists.xmission.com></a> for bedding, the best thing appears to be a buffalo robe. unfortunately </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap="">not </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">all of us can afford a buffalo robe right off. (I am saving up my </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap="">pennies </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">and dimes though). so how do the alternates measure up? deer hide elk moose bear caribou what's the next best thing? larry ---------------------- hist_text list info: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.xmission.com/%7Edrudy/mtman/maillist.html">http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html</a> </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""> ---------------------- hist_text list info: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.xmission.com/%7Edrudy/mtman/maillist.html">http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html</a> </pre> </blockquote> <br> </font></blockquote> </blockquote> <br> </body> </html> --------------090404020509000409010208-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Phyllis and Don Keas <pdkeas@market1.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bedding Date: 11 Nov 2003 20:00:19 -0600 Wool blankets have always done me very well. The coldest I have slept is = 12 below and two Witneys. I did all right, but now I am older and plan on = carrying three in the winter. Old age you know. Don On Monday, November 10, 2003 11:42 AM, roger lahti <amm1719@charter.net> = wrote: >I got to agree with bb on bison robes being a pain if they get wet. But I >suspect that, well I know my robe is warmer than an equivalent weight of >wool blanket. To make the blankets warm at all you still need some sort = of >air barrier like a canvas bed roll to cut the air movement by the blanket.= >The robe comes with it's own barrier but it's not water repellent at all. >Brain tan is very light though when done right with plenty of hide = shaving >to get it thin as possible. > >I still have good use for my wool blankets. > >Capt. Lahti > > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: >http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Phyllis and Don Keas <pdkeas@market1.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bedding Date: 11 Nov 2003 20:12:40 -0600 Put a chin strap on your stocking cap. Works for me. Don On Monday, November 10, 2003 7:02 PM, roger lahti <amm1719@charter.net> = wrote: > >Sparks, et.al., > =A0 >I've never had much success with a stocking cap but since I got >me a Scottish tam from Jas Townsend and sons, I've not had a >problem keeping it on all night. It may end up turned around a >couple times but it's always there where I left it. <G> >=A0 >Capt. Lahti >=A0 >=A0 >=A0 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "roger lahti" <amm1719@charter.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bedding Date: 11 Nov 2003 19:18:21 -0800 Don, Well to be honest I hate stocking caps to start out with. So no chin strap and as I said, with my tam I don't need one. I put it on at night and it's on in the morning and anytime in-between I happen to wake up. Capt. Lahti' ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Paul Jones" <pwjones@myexcel.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 05:39:04 -0600 Date: 12 Nov 2003 04:41:21 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C3A8DF.48CA59A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A friend, a retired doctor, has a large collection of mounted heads from = animals he shot in Alaska, British Columbia and elsewhere. One, a huge = moose (the spread of the horns is about 80 inches), is one of the = largest and finest mounts I have ever seen. He has decided to sell it, = but has no sense of how to determine its fair value. Can anyone suggest = a site, company, or individual who might be able to give advice on this = subject. Thanks, Paul ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C3A8DF.48CA59A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1264" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3D2> <DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3D2>A friend, a retired doctor, has a large = collection of=20 mounted heads from animals he shot in Alaska, British Columbia and=20 elsewhere. One, a huge moose (the spread of the horns is about 80 = inches),=20 is one of the largest and finest mounts I have ever seen. He has = decided=20 to sell it, but has no sense of how to determine its fair value. = Can=20 anyone suggest a site, company, or individual who might be able to give = advice=20 on this subject.</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3D2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3D2>Thanks,</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3D2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT=20 size=3D2>Paul</FONT></STRONG></DIV></FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C3A8DF.48CA59A0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ole Jensen <olebjensen@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bedding Date: 12 Nov 2003 07:55:11 -0700 Don, For years I have used 1 hudson bay, 1 whitney, and 2 Barron 5 point blankets wraped with canvas. In the future I will use the same with the addition of 3 hudson bay's and 1 whitney as a ground pad wraped with russian sheating. Ole On Tuesday, November 11, 2003, at 07:00 PM, Phyllis and Don Keas wrote: > Wool blankets have always done me very well. The coldest I have slept > is 12 below and two Witneys. I did all right, but now I am older and > plan on carrying three in the winter. Old age you know. Don > > On Monday, November 10, 2003 11:42 AM, roger lahti > <amm1719@charter.net> wrote: >> I got to agree with bb on bison robes being a pain if they get wet. >> But I >> suspect that, well I know my robe is warmer than an equivalent weight >> of >> wool blanket. To make the blankets warm at all you still need some >> sort of >> air barrier like a canvas bed roll to cut the air movement by the >> blanket. >> The robe comes with it's own barrier but it's not water repellent at >> all. >> Brain tan is very light though when done right with plenty of hide >> shaving >> to get it thin as possible. >> >> I still have good use for my wool blankets. >> >> Capt. Lahti >> >> >> >> ---------------------- >> hist_text list info: >> http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >> > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Moose Head Date: 12 Nov 2003 10:02:45 EST Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/12/2003 3:42:08 AM Pacific Standard Time, pwjones@myexcel.com writes: Can anyone suggest a site, company, or individual who might be able to give advice on this subject. Pablo, Try Lietzau Taxidermy in Cosmos, Minnesota. Phone is 320-877-7297. Hope this is of some help. Barney Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML><HEAD> <META charset=3DUTF-8 http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charse= t=3Dutf-8"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1276" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff= f"> <DIV> <DIV>In a message dated 11/12/2003 3:42:08 AM Pacific Standard Time, pwjones= @myexcel.com writes:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20= 2px solid"><STRONG><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Can anyone suggest a site, co= mpany, or individual who might be able to give advice on this subject.</FONT= ></STRONG></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#000080>Pablo, Try Lietzau= Taxidermy in Cosmos, Minnesota. Phone is 320-877-7297.</FONT></STRONG>= </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#000080></FONT></STRONG>&n= bsp;</DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#000080>Hope this is of so= me help. Barney</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML> ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Paul Jones" <pwjones@myexcel.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bedding Date: 12 Nov 2003 09:31:27 -0600 Ole, What do you estimate the total weight to be of 1 Hudson bay, 1 Whitney, 2 Barron 5 point blankets wrapped with canvas, together with the addition of 3 Hudson bay's and 1 Whitney as a ground pad wrapped with Russian sheeting? Can you carry this or does it require some other means of transportation? It will surely keep you warm and dry, but the bulk and weight seem somewhat intimidating in my view, and I would assume that this set-up is not for a walk-in situation, or am I mistaken? Regards, Paul ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 8:55 AM > Don, > For years I have used 1 hudson bay, 1 whitney, and 2 Barron 5 point > blankets wraped with canvas. > In the future I will use the same with the addition of 3 hudson bay's > and 1 whitney as a ground pad wraped with russian sheating. > Ole > On Tuesday, November 11, 2003, at 07:00 PM, Phyllis and Don Keas wrote: > > > Wool blankets have always done me very well. The coldest I have slept > > is 12 below and two Witneys. I did all right, but now I am older and > > plan on carrying three in the winter. Old age you know. Don > > > > On Monday, November 10, 2003 11:42 AM, roger lahti > > <amm1719@charter.net> wrote: > >> I got to agree with bb on bison robes being a pain if they get wet. > >> But I > >> suspect that, well I know my robe is warmer than an equivalent weight > >> of > >> wool blanket. To make the blankets warm at all you still need some > >> sort of > >> air barrier like a canvas bed roll to cut the air movement by the > >> blanket. > >> The robe comes with it's own barrier but it's not water repellent at > >> all. > >> Brain tan is very light though when done right with plenty of hide > >> shaving > >> to get it thin as possible. > >> > >> I still have good use for my wool blankets. > >> > >> Capt. Lahti > >> > >> > >> > >> ---------------------- > >> hist_text list info: > >> http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > >> > > > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Paul Jones" <pwjones@myexcel.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Moose Head Date: 12 Nov 2003 09:35:38 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C3A900.551D8D00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks, Barney, I will give them a call. Walked down to visit with my doctor friend this morning and he pointed = out that it is a full shoulder mount. Saw one that is about 20" shy in = terms of spread on E-bay that is at about $1,800 as of now, and it is a = poor specimen compared to my friends. So, it obliviously has some value = to someone who is interested (and has a wall of sufficient height to do = the mount justice) in having such a prize. Regards, Paul ----- Original Message -----=20 From: LivingInThePast@aol.com=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 9:02 AM Subject: MtMan-List: Moose Head In a message dated 11/12/2003 3:42:08 AM Pacific Standard Time, = pwjones@myexcel.com writes: Can anyone suggest a site, company, or individual who might be able = to give advice on this subject. Pablo, Try Lietzau Taxidermy in Cosmos, Minnesota. Phone is = 320-877-7297. Hope this is of some help. Barney ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C3A900.551D8D00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1276" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: = #ffffff"=20 bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Thanks, Barney, I will give = them a=20 call.</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Walked down to visit with my = doctor=20 friend this morning and he pointed out that it is a full shoulder = mount. =20 Saw one that is about 20" shy in terms of spread on E-bay that is at = about=20 $1,800 as of now, and it is a poor specimen compared to my = friends. So, it=20 obliviously has some value to someone who is interested (and has a wall = of=20 sufficient height to do the mount justice) in having such a=20 prize.</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New = Roman">Regards,</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Paul</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3DLivingInThePast@aol.com=20 href=3D"mailto:LivingInThePast@aol.com">LivingInThePast@aol.com</A> = </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3Dhist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 = href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com= </A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, November 12, = 2003 9:02=20 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> MtMan-List: Moose = Head</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV> <DIV>In a message dated 11/12/2003 3:42:08 AM Pacific Standard Time, = <A=20 href=3D"mailto:pwjones@myexcel.com">pwjones@myexcel.com</A> = writes:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px = solid"><STRONG><FONT=20 face=3DArial size=3D2>Can anyone suggest a site, company, or = individual who=20 might be able to give advice on this=20 subject.</FONT></STRONG></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#000080>Pablo, Try = Lietzau=20 Taxidermy in Cosmos, Minnesota. Phone is=20 320-877-7297.</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"=20 color=3D#000080></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#000080>Hope this is = of some=20 help. = Barney</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C3A900.551D8D00-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Moose Head Date: 12 Nov 2003 11:48:55 -0600 Paul, I think I would first call Cabela's and Bass Pro and see what they'd offer. They are both opening stores hand over fist and have lots of dead animals on the walls. John... At 09:35 AM 11/12/03, you wrote: >Thanks, Barney, I will give them a call. > >Walked down to visit with my doctor friend this morning and he pointed out >that it is a full shoulder mount. Saw one that is about 20" shy in terms >of spread on E-bay that is at about $1,800 as of now, and it is a poor >specimen compared to my friends. So, it obliviously has some value to >someone who is interested (and has a wall of sufficient height to do the >mount justice) in having such a prize. > >Regards, > >Paul If it ain't exactly right, it's wrong. john <kramer@kramerize.com> Take a look at all the prime plunder being auctioned for the benefit of the American Mountain Men http://amm-auction.com/ ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "larry pendleton" <yellowroseforge@vzinet.com> Subject: MtMan-List: EARLY RUSTIC ARMS Date: 12 Nov 2003 16:32:05 -0600 Has anyone heard anything good or bad about this outfit in Kentucky ? Pendleton ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Moose Head Date: 12 Nov 2003 16:13:12 -0700 (MST) While attending the rendezvous at Chadron Nebraska a few years ago during Chadron Days, I was lucky enough to meet some of the Pine Ridge Boys and they did not speak too highly of Cabela's. It seems Cabela is buying up all the land down there and closing it to hunting except by pay only, big pay. They spoke of Cabela's like some Montanan's speak of Ted Turner up here. So before you give your hard earned money to the "worlds biggest outfitter" keep in mind that your helping to shut down hunting for the regular guy. beaverboy > Paul, > > I think I would first call Cabela's and Bass Pro and see what they'd > offer. They are both opening stores hand over fist and have lots of dead > animals on the walls. > > John... > > At 09:35 AM 11/12/03, you wrote: >>Thanks, Barney, I will give them a call. >> >>Walked down to visit with my doctor friend this morning and he pointed >> out >>that it is a full shoulder mount. Saw one that is about 20" shy in terms >>of spread on E-bay that is at about $1,800 as of now, and it is a poor >>specimen compared to my friends. So, it obliviously has some value to >>someone who is interested (and has a wall of sufficient height to do the >>mount justice) in having such a prize. >> >>Regards, >> >>Paul > > If it ain't exactly right, it's wrong. > john <kramer@kramerize.com> > > Take a look at all the prime plunder being auctioned for the benefit of > the > American Mountain Men > http://amm-auction.com/ > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Moose Head Date: 12 Nov 2003 16:20:02 -0700 (MST) I skinned for a taxidermist for three winters and I know racks and mounts can be worth quite a bit depending of the score of the mount, the rarity, and of course the quality. One thing you must definitely do is get several opinions or offers. Believe me, there are some real crooks in that business!!! The man I worked for was fair and honest and is still in the business. I met a lot of the people he had to deal with and some of them I wouldn't trust for nothing! Get a second or third bid and make sure they don't know each other. bb > While attending the rendezvous at Chadron Nebraska a few years ago during > Chadron Days, I was lucky enough to meet some of the Pine Ridge Boys and > they did not speak too highly of Cabela's. It seems Cabela is buying up > all the land down there and closing it to hunting except by pay only, big > pay. They spoke of Cabela's like some Montanan's speak of Ted Turner up > here. > So before you give your hard earned money to the "worlds biggest > outfitter" keep in mind that your helping to shut down hunting for the > regular guy. > beaverboy > > > > > >> Paul, >> >> I think I would first call Cabela's and Bass Pro and see what they'd >> offer. They are both opening stores hand over fist and have lots of >> dead >> animals on the walls. >> >> John... >> >> At 09:35 AM 11/12/03, you wrote: >>>Thanks, Barney, I will give them a call. >>> >>>Walked down to visit with my doctor friend this morning and he pointed >>> out >>>that it is a full shoulder mount. Saw one that is about 20" shy in >>> terms >>>of spread on E-bay that is at about $1,800 as of now, and it is a poor >>>specimen compared to my friends. So, it obliviously has some value to >>>someone who is interested (and has a wall of sufficient height to do the >>>mount justice) in having such a prize. >>> >>>Regards, >>> >>>Paul >> >> If it ain't exactly right, it's wrong. >> john <kramer@kramerize.com> >> >> Take a look at all the prime plunder being auctioned for the benefit of >> the >> American Mountain Men >> http://amm-auction.com/ >> >> >> ---------------------- >> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >> > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "don secondine" <dmdhsecondine@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bedding Date: 12 Nov 2003 23:23:03 +0000 No problem if you have three mules. Don >From: "Paul Jones" <pwjones@myexcel.com> >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bedding >Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 09:31:27 -0600 > >Ole, > >What do you estimate the total weight to be of 1 Hudson bay, 1 Whitney, 2 >Barron 5 point blankets wrapped with canvas, together with the addition of >3 >Hudson bay's and 1 Whitney as a ground pad wrapped with Russian sheeting? >Can you carry this or does it require some other means of transportation? >It will surely keep you warm and dry, but the bulk and weight seem somewhat >intimidating in my view, and I would assume that this set-up is not for a >walk-in situation, or am I mistaken? > >Regards, > >Paul > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Ole Jensen" <olebjensen@earthlink.net> >To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> >Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 8:55 AM >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bedding > > > > Don, > > For years I have used 1 hudson bay, 1 whitney, and 2 Barron 5 point > > blankets wraped with canvas. > > In the future I will use the same with the addition of 3 hudson bay's > > and 1 whitney as a ground pad wraped with russian sheating. > > Ole > > On Tuesday, November 11, 2003, at 07:00 PM, Phyllis and Don Keas wrote: > > > > > Wool blankets have always done me very well. The coldest I have slept > > > is 12 below and two Witneys. I did all right, but now I am older and > > > plan on carrying three in the winter. Old age you know. Don > > > > > > On Monday, November 10, 2003 11:42 AM, roger lahti > > > <amm1719@charter.net> wrote: > > >> I got to agree with bb on bison robes being a pain if they get wet. > > >> But I > > >> suspect that, well I know my robe is warmer than an equivalent weight > > >> of > > >> wool blanket. To make the blankets warm at all you still need some > > >> sort of > > >> air barrier like a canvas bed roll to cut the air movement by the > > >> blanket. > > >> The robe comes with it's own barrier but it's not water repellent at > > >> all. > > >> Brain tan is very light though when done right with plenty of hide > > >> shaving > > >> to get it thin as possible. > > >> > > >> I still have good use for my wool blankets. > > >> > > >> Capt. Lahti > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> ---------------------- > > >> hist_text list info: > > >> http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > >> > > > > > > > > > ---------------------- > > > hist_text list info: >http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html _________________________________________________________________ Great deals on high-speed Internet access as low as $26.95. https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.) ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ole Jensen <olebjensen@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bedding Date: 12 Nov 2003 19:21:51 -0700 Paul, I have all day and can make more than one trip. During the fur trade I would have probably had 3 mules or horses so I could haul my plews to Rendezvous or the nearest Fort. In the summer I would only have 2 blankets for the trip which I could carry on my mount. In the fall the party I was with would either head back to there last trapping area and set up for the trapping season or find a new area and do the same. I might even purchase an Iron pot at Rendezvous and bring it back to our trapping area , along with my Indian woman and her two pack annimals. Ole On Wednesday, November 12, 2003, at 08:31 AM, Paul Jones wrote: > Ole, > > What do you estimate the total weight to be of 1 Hudson bay, 1 > Whitney, 2 > Barron 5 point blankets wrapped with canvas, together with the > addition of 3 > Hudson bay's and 1 Whitney as a ground pad wrapped with Russian > sheeting? > Can you carry this or does it require some other means of > transportation? > It will surely keep you warm and dry, but the bulk and weight seem > somewhat > intimidating in my view, and I would assume that this set-up is not > for a > walk-in situation, or am I mistaken? > > Regards, > > Paul > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ole Jensen" <olebjensen@earthlink.net> > To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 8:55 AM > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bedding > > >> Don, >> For years I have used 1 hudson bay, 1 whitney, and 2 Barron 5 point >> blankets wraped with canvas. >> In the future I will use the same with the addition of 3 hudson bay's >> and 1 whitney as a ground pad wraped with russian sheating. >> Ole >> On Tuesday, November 11, 2003, at 07:00 PM, Phyllis and Don Keas >> wrote: >> >>> Wool blankets have always done me very well. The coldest I have >>> slept >>> is 12 below and two Witneys. I did all right, but now I am older and >>> plan on carrying three in the winter. Old age you know. Don >>> >>> On Monday, November 10, 2003 11:42 AM, roger lahti >>> <amm1719@charter.net> wrote: >>>> I got to agree with bb on bison robes being a pain if they get wet. >>>> But I >>>> suspect that, well I know my robe is warmer than an equivalent >>>> weight >>>> of >>>> wool blanket. To make the blankets warm at all you still need some >>>> sort of >>>> air barrier like a canvas bed roll to cut the air movement by the >>>> blanket. >>>> The robe comes with it's own barrier but it's not water repellent at >>>> all. >>>> Brain tan is very light though when done right with plenty of hide >>>> shaving >>>> to get it thin as possible. >>>> >>>> I still have good use for my wool blankets. >>>> >>>> Capt. Lahti >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------------------- >>>> hist_text list info: >>>> http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >>>> >>> >>> >>> ---------------------- >>> hist_text list info: >>> http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >>> >> >> >> ---------------------- >> hist_text list info: >> http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >> >> > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Larry Butler" <larry@fun-a-fair.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Deer season Date: 12 Nov 2003 18:10:55 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C3A948.50D3C0A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi to the list Deer season has finally arrived here southern central Oregon. Good = black tail country. The first day my 40+ year old sonenlaw Killed his first buck. Young = forked horn.=20 Shot it 3 times. I guess buck fever can strike at any age. I jumped a 4 point and it ran with in 30 feet of this same boy. It was = going so fast he had little chance in this brush. (western count). =20 I have 2 sons and 2 grandsons in the party. The rest of us couldn't put = horns on anything. The youngest grand son is 12 and is his first year. I had 5 does with = in 200 feet standing in front of him but, he passed on them. I wonder = if he will do the same when a buck shows it's self. He won't shoot a = bird. Time will tell. Lots of season left. Larry Butler ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C3A948.50D3C0A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff style=3D"COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Hi to the list</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Deer season has finally arrived here southern = central=20 Oregon. Good black tail country.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2> The first day my 40+ year old sonenlaw Killed = his first=20 buck. Young forked horn. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Shot it 3 times. I guess buck fever can strike = at any=20 age.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>I jumped a 4 point and it ran with in 30 feet of = this same=20 boy. It was going so fast he had little chance in this = brush. =20 (western count). </FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>I have 2 sons and 2 grandsons in the party. = The rest of=20 us couldn't put horns on anything.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>The youngest grand son is 12 and is his first = year. I=20 had 5 does with in 200 feet standing in front of him but, he passed on=20 them. I wonder if he will do the same when a buck shows it's = self. =20 He won't shoot a bird. Time will tell.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Lots of season left.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Larry Butler</FONT></DIV> <P></P></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C3A948.50D3C0A0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Paul Jones" <pwjones@myexcel.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bedding Date: 12 Nov 2003 22:15:47 -0600 Ole, Thanks for the response. I agree, that one can make more than one trip, however, in deep winter conditions, such as those I have experienced in Montana, snow-shoeing in and out, depending on terrain and distance, can be taxing, at best. Personally I like Crazy's idea of a toboggan, but here in Texas that would be as useful as ................, heavens, I cannot think of a fair comparison! Of course, I am assuming that the camp is not otherwise accessible, but I assume that you are like most of us and prefer the more hardcore opportunities to test ourselves and our gear--within reason and keeping safety first in mind---and camping in the snow and extreme cold is about as harsh a test as we are likely to encounter. And you are correct, had we been operating during the actual fur trade, horses would have been our salvation in this regard. Take care, Paul ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 8:21 PM > Paul, > I have all day and can make more than one trip. > During the fur trade I would have probably had 3 mules or horses so I > could haul my plews to Rendezvous or the nearest Fort. In the summer I > would only have 2 blankets for the trip which I could carry on my mount. > In the fall the party I was with would either head back to there last > trapping area and set up for the trapping season or find a new area and > do the same. > I might even purchase an Iron pot at Rendezvous and bring it back to > our trapping area , along with my Indian woman and her two pack > annimals. > Ole > On Wednesday, November 12, 2003, at 08:31 AM, Paul Jones wrote: > > > Ole, > > > > What do you estimate the total weight to be of 1 Hudson bay, 1 > > Whitney, 2 > > Barron 5 point blankets wrapped with canvas, together with the > > addition of 3 > > Hudson bay's and 1 Whitney as a ground pad wrapped with Russian > > sheeting? > > Can you carry this or does it require some other means of > > transportation? > > It will surely keep you warm and dry, but the bulk and weight seem > > somewhat > > intimidating in my view, and I would assume that this set-up is not > > for a > > walk-in situation, or am I mistaken? > > > > Regards, > > > > Paul > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Ole Jensen" <olebjensen@earthlink.net> > > To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 8:55 AM > > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bedding > > > > > >> Don, > >> For years I have used 1 hudson bay, 1 whitney, and 2 Barron 5 point > >> blankets wraped with canvas. > >> In the future I will use the same with the addition of 3 hudson bay's > >> and 1 whitney as a ground pad wraped with russian sheating. > >> Ole > >> On Tuesday, November 11, 2003, at 07:00 PM, Phyllis and Don Keas > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Wool blankets have always done me very well. The coldest I have > >>> slept > >>> is 12 below and two Witneys. I did all right, but now I am older and > >>> plan on carrying three in the winter. Old age you know. Don > >>> > >>> On Monday, November 10, 2003 11:42 AM, roger lahti > >>> <amm1719@charter.net> wrote: > >>>> I got to agree with bb on bison robes being a pain if they get wet. > >>>> But I > >>>> suspect that, well I know my robe is warmer than an equivalent > >>>> weight > >>>> of > >>>> wool blanket. To make the blankets warm at all you still need some > >>>> sort of > >>>> air barrier like a canvas bed roll to cut the air movement by the > >>>> blanket. > >>>> The robe comes with it's own barrier but it's not water repellent at > >>>> all. > >>>> Brain tan is very light though when done right with plenty of hide > >>>> shaving > >>>> to get it thin as possible. > >>>> > >>>> I still have good use for my wool blankets. > >>>> > >>>> Capt. Lahti > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ---------------------- > >>>> hist_text list info: > >>>> http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ---------------------- > >>> hist_text list info: > >>> http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > >>> > >> > >> > >> ---------------------- > >> hist_text list info: > >> http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > >> > >> > > > > > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wynn Ormond" <cheyenne@pcu.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Beaver Skinning Date: 12 Nov 2003 21:56:16 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00A3_01C3A967.CBCF6C40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I know this has been talked about before but now I have gotten my hands = dirty I want to talk it again. First of all I can't remember anyone = suggesting skinning out the hind legs then hanging the critter by the = holes in the fur and postioning the animal so its weight help pull the = hide off. To try to explain it better. The holes for the hind legs are = at the top tied up to whatever, the hair is inward, the body is at the = bottom tail down the hide just peels off as you go around it with your = knife. Secondly, you are all right fleshing is a b--------- . The guy who was = showing me doesn't claim to be any expert but he used a slicing sideward = movement with a sharp blade, sharpened on one side only. It was a move = that I would never do on a deer hide for fear of cutting the hell out of = it. But it worked on the beaver. The only question left that neither = of us knew was how much do you need to take off. We left it pretty = clean but it still had a little slime to it. It would remind me of not = getting all the epedermis off a deer hide. Is that good enough? Thanks in advance Wynn Ormond ------=_NextPart_000_00A3_01C3A967.CBCF6C40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I know this has been talked about = before but now I=20 have gotten my hands dirty I want to talk it again. First of all I = can't=20 remember anyone suggesting skinning out the hind legs then hanging the = critter=20 by the holes in the fur and postioning the animal so its weight help = pull the=20 hide off. To try to explain it better. The holes for the = hind legs=20 are at the top tied up to whatever, the hair is inward, the body is at = the=20 bottom tail down the hide just peels off as you go around it with your=20 knife.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Secondly, you are all right fleshing is = a=20 b--------- . The guy who was showing me doesn't claim to be any = expert but=20 he used a slicing sideward movement with a sharp blade, sharpened on one = side=20 only. It was a move that I would never do on a deer hide for fear = of=20 cutting the hell out of it. But it worked on the beaver. The = only=20 question left that neither of us knew was how much do you need to take=20 off. We left it pretty clean but it still had a little slime to = it. =20 It would remind me of not getting all the epedermis off a deer = hide. Is=20 that good enough?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks in advance</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Wynn Ormond</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_00A3_01C3A967.CBCF6C40-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver Skinning Date: 13 Nov 2003 00:46:39 EST Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/12/2003 8:49:35 PM Pacific Standard Time, cheyenne@pcu.net writes: To try to explain it better. The holes for the hind legs are at the top tied up to whatever, the hair is inward, the body is at the bottom tail down the hide just peels off as you go around it with your knife. That would be one way to do it.... As most know, beavers, otters, and wolverine, don't readily give up their hide. I got spoiled on lynx, fox, and martin... you can ease the hide off like pulling off a sock. The first beaver I ever skint took over an hour, and it was a mess. I brought it over to an Eskimo lady I knew, and hard to say how long it took her to flesh it. When I stopped by to pick it up she said "Maybe next time you bring over beaver, and I skin?" ....and that's what I did. For a carcass she'd do 3-4 for me, as she liked to eat em. Back in the early 80's, I could get $40 for a nice blanket, and $25 from the Iditarod mushers for the carcass. (sled dog food) Most were caught with snares under the ice.... awful hard work to chop through 2-3 feet of ice. Especially when you could get $400+ for a lynx or wolverine in an easy to make cubby set.... Kinda miss that stuff..... Magpie (in trap free Washington State....aaaaaargh!) Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML><HEAD> <META charset=3DUTF-8 http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charse= t=3Dutf-8"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2730.1700" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff= f"> <DIV> <DIV>In a message dated 11/12/2003 8:49:35 PM Pacific Standard Time, cheyenn= e@pcu.net writes:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20= 2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>To try to explain it better. Th= e holes for the hind legs are at the top tied up to whatever, the hair is in= ward, the body is at the bottom tail down the hide just peels off as you go=20= around it with your knife.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> <DIV>That would be one way to do it.... As most know, beavers, otters, and w= olverine, don't readily give up their hide. I got spoiled on lynx, fox, and=20= martin... you can ease the hide off like pulling off a sock. </DIV> <DIV>The first beaver I ever skint took over an hour, and it was a mess. I b= rought it over to an Eskimo lady I knew, and hard to say how long it took he= r to flesh it. When I stopped by to pick it up she said "Maybe next time you= bring over beaver, and I skin?" ....and that's what I did. For a carca= ss she'd do 3-4 for me, as she liked to eat em. Back in the early 80's, I co= uld get $40 for a nice blanket, and $25 from the Iditarod mushers for the ca= rcass. (sled dog food) Most were caught with snares under the ice.... awful=20= hard work to chop through 2-3 feet of ice. Especially when you could get $40= 0+ for a lynx or wolverine in an easy to make cubby set....</DIV> <DIV>Kinda miss that stuff.....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Magpie</DIV> <DIV>(in trap free Washington State....aaaaaargh!) </DIV></BODY></HTML> ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver Skinning Date: 13 Nov 2003 04:55:13 -0700 (MST) Wynn, I think the method you are suggesting would be tough. You must be refering to clean skinning of beaver too. Most clean skinners lay them on a table or in a small trough (? did I spell that right?) Some I have seen use bungee cords in the aid of pulling off the hide as they skin it. There really is no easy way to skin a beaver. Rough skinning is much easier but then as you know, it has to be fleshed. Either way you do it, practice makes perfect. I can rough skin, flesh, and tack on boards 3 little beaver in an hour and two blankets beaver in an hour. The hide must be fairly clean when done. If there is too much left on it will show when the hide is dried. You will see white spots of fat, these can be scraped off afterwards but the hide will be much better looking if done right before it dries. Hides that have too much fat on them will not dry properly and be soft in those spots. You'll see what I mean. Lots of the thinner membrane (the same as on rats) will simple dry up or melt away. This grease can be wiped away with paper towels. Good luck, bb > I know this has been talked about before but now I have gotten my hands > dirty I want to talk it again. First of all I can't remember anyone > suggesting skinning out the hind legs then hanging the critter by the > holes in the fur and postioning the animal so its weight help pull the > hide off. To try to explain it better. The holes for the hind legs are > at the top tied up to whatever, the hair is inward, the body is at the > bottom tail down the hide just peels off as you go around it with your > knife. > > Secondly, you are all right fleshing is a b--------- . The guy who was > showing me doesn't claim to be any expert but he used a slicing sideward > movement with a sharp blade, sharpened on one side only. It was a move > that I would never do on a deer hide for fear of cutting the hell out of > it. But it worked on the beaver. The only question left that neither of > us knew was how much do you need to take off. We left it pretty clean but > it still had a little slime to it. It would remind me of not getting all > the epedermis off a deer hide. Is that good enough? > > Thanks in advance > Wynn Ormond > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "bruce chamberlain" <swettfoot@msn.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: EARLY RUSTIC ARMS Date: 13 Nov 2003 07:47:42 -0500 My friend ordered a Militia Musket Kit last November from them. He didn't receive it until this August. Phone calls to them were either not answered or he felt he was getting excuses from them. When the kit arrived the stock was too thin for a true musket and the metal parts needed a whole lot of work. He felt some of the castings were made from The Rifle Shop parts and were therefor smaller than if he had ordered the parts directly from The Rifle Shop. He is going to make a New England fowler out of it and some other parts in his shop. It's too bad, as he was planning on doing more business with them if everything turned out O.K. The guns on their web site look nice and maybe they concentrate more on their custom orders...I don't know. Bruce > >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >To: "amm lists" <ammlist@lists.xmission.com> >Subject: MtMan-List: EARLY RUSTIC ARMS >Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 16:32:05 -0600 > >Has anyone heard anything good or bad about this outfit in Kentucky ? > >Pendleton > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html _________________________________________________________________ Is your computer infected with a virus? Find out with a FREE computer virus scan from McAfee. Take the FreeScan now! http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Todd Schrivener <farseer@swbell.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: EARLY RUSTIC ARMS Date: 13 Nov 2003 07:01:06 -0800 (PST) --0-178229798-1068735666=:98794 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii A friend of mine just got a 1st model brown bess from them. He was very pleased with the service, and the musket is a nice piece of work. BIG darn gun though, I will tell you that, weighs as much as I do. :) Todd/Missouri Territory larry pendleton <yellowroseforge@vzinet.com> wrote: Has anyone heard anything good or bad about this outfit in Kentucky ? Pendleton ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html --0-178229798-1068735666=:98794 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii <DIV>A friend of mine just got a 1st model brown bess from them. He was very pleased with the service, and the musket is a nice piece of work. BIG darn gun though, I will tell you that, weighs as much as I do. :)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Todd/Missouri Territory<BR><BR><B><I>larry pendleton <yellowroseforge@vzinet.com></I></B> wrote:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">Has anyone heard anything good or bad about this outfit in Kentucky ?<BR><BR>Pendleton<BR><BR>----------------------<BR>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html</BLOCKQUOTE> --0-178229798-1068735666=:98794-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sean Boushie" <flintlocknfur@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver Skinning Date: 13 Nov 2003 15:59:49 +0000 I have to agree. Clean skinning is nice if you have the patience for it,..I don't. Problem is beaver don't have that "extra" membrane that most mammals do that allows you to pull the hide from the body. Its the same membrane you have to get off before you brain tan. They store most of their fat reserves under the skin for insulation and/or protection, therefore you have to cut it off. You can either flesh the way you mentioned, but that leaves marks or scores on the hide if your not perfect at it. Those may downgrade the hide to a lower price depending on who you sell to and what they are going to do with it. Try just using a five foot piece of 6" pvc pipe tucked into you belly with the hide pinched between you and it, and the other end butt against a wall or stump, and a "knife" made out of 2"x 14"ish 1/4" flat stock. Wrap tape on the handles and square the 1/4" edge with a grinder so it has no roundness and push down and away from yourself. I think you'll find that a bit easier. One trick I use is after I get it fleshed and streched, pour boiling hot water on the flesh side and scrub it as hard as you can with a rough (notwire) brush. that will make the hide come out very white and clean. I usually get a better price at auction that way. SMB >From: beaverboy@sofast.net >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver Skinning >Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 04:55:13 -0700 (MST) > >Wynn, > I think the method you are suggesting would be tough. You must be >refering to clean skinning of beaver too. Most clean skinners lay them >on a table or in a small trough (? did I spell that right?) Some I have >seen use bungee cords in the aid of pulling off the hide as they skin >it. There really is no easy way to skin a beaver. > Rough skinning is much easier but then as you know, it has to be >fleshed. Either way you do it, practice makes perfect. I can rough >skin, flesh, and tack on boards 3 little beaver in an hour and two >blankets beaver in an hour. > The hide must be fairly clean when done. If there is too much left on >it will show when the hide is dried. You will see white spots of fat, >these can be scraped off afterwards but the hide will be much better >looking if done right before it dries. Hides that have too much fat on >them will not dry properly and be soft in those spots. You'll see what >I mean. > Lots of the thinner membrane (the same as on rats) will simple dry up >or melt away. This grease can be wiped away with paper towels. > Good luck, > bb > > > > > > I know this has been talked about before but now I have gotten my hands > > dirty I want to talk it again. First of all I can't remember anyone > > suggesting skinning out the hind legs then hanging the critter by the > > holes in the fur and postioning the animal so its weight help pull the > > hide off. To try to explain it better. The holes for the hind legs are > > at the top tied up to whatever, the hair is inward, the body is at the > > bottom tail down the hide just peels off as you go around it with your > > knife. > > > > Secondly, you are all right fleshing is a b--------- . The guy who was > > showing me doesn't claim to be any expert but he used a slicing sideward > > movement with a sharp blade, sharpened on one side only. It was a move > > that I would never do on a deer hide for fear of cutting the hell out of > > it. But it worked on the beaver. The only question left that neither >of > > us knew was how much do you need to take off. We left it pretty clean >but > > it still had a little slime to it. It would remind me of not getting >all > > the epedermis off a deer hide. Is that good enough? > > > > Thanks in advance > > Wynn Ormond > > > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html _________________________________________________________________ MSN Messenger with backgrounds, emoticons and more. http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/cdp_customize ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Phyllis and Don Keas <pdkeas@market1.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bedding Date: 13 Nov 2003 16:49:29 -0600 Ahhh - the comforts of home. On Wednesday, November 12, 2003 8:21 PM, Ole Jensen <olebjensen@earthlink.= net> wrote: >Paul, >I have all day and can make more than one trip. >During the fur trade I would have probably had 3 mules or horses so I=20 >could haul my plews to Rendezvous or the nearest Fort. In the summer I=20 >would only have 2 blankets for the trip which I could carry on my mount. >In the fall the party I was with would either head back to there last=20 >trapping area and set up for the trapping season or find a new area and=20 >do the same. >I might even purchase an Iron pot at Rendezvous and bring it back to=20 >our trapping area , along with my Indian woman and her two pack=20 >annimals. >Ole >On Wednesday, November 12, 2003, at 08:31 AM, Paul Jones wrote: > >> Ole, >> >> What do you estimate the total weight to be of 1 Hudson bay, 1=20 >> Whitney, 2 >> Barron 5 point blankets wrapped with canvas, together with the=20 >> addition of 3 >> Hudson bay's and 1 Whitney as a ground pad wrapped with Russian=20 >> sheeting? >> Can you carry this or does it require some other means of=20 >> transportation? >> It will surely keep you warm and dry, but the bulk and weight seem=20 >> somewhat >> intimidating in my view, and I would assume that this set-up is not=20 >> for a >> walk-in situation, or am I mistaken? >> >> Regards, >> >> Paul >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Ole Jensen" <olebjensen@earthlink.net> >> To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> >> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 8:55 AM >> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bedding >> >> >>> Don, >>> For years I have used 1 hudson bay, 1 whitney, and 2 Barron 5 point >>> blankets wraped with canvas. >>> In the future I will use the same with the addition of 3 hudson bay's >>> and 1 whitney as a ground pad wraped with russian sheating. >>> Ole >>> On Tuesday, November 11, 2003, at 07:00 PM, Phyllis and Don Keas=20 >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Wool blankets have always done me very well. The coldest I have=20 >>>> slept >>>> is 12 below and two Witneys. I did all right, but now I am older and >>>> plan on carrying three in the winter. Old age you know. Don >>>> >>>> On Monday, November 10, 2003 11:42 AM, roger lahti >>>> <amm1719@charter.net> wrote: >>>>> I got to agree with bb on bison robes being a pain if they get wet. >>>>> But I >>>>> suspect that, well I know my robe is warmer than an equivalent=20 >>>>> weight >>>>> of >>>>> wool blanket. To make the blankets warm at all you still need some >>>>> sort of >>>>> air barrier like a canvas bed roll to cut the air movement by the >>>>> blanket. >>>>> The robe comes with it's own barrier but it's not water repellent at >>>>> all. >>>>> Brain tan is very light though when done right with plenty of hide >>>>> shaving >>>>> to get it thin as possible. >>>>> >>>>> I still have good use for my wool blankets. >>>>> >>>>> Capt. Lahti >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ---------------------- >>>>> hist_text list info: >>>>> http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------------------- >>>> hist_text list info:=20 >>>> http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >>>> >>> >>> >>> ---------------------- >>> hist_text list info:=20 >>> http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >>> >>> >> >> >> >> ---------------------- >> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >> > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: >http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver Skinning Date: 13 Nov 2003 19:44:54 -0700 (MST) One trick I use is after I get it fleshed and > streched, pour boiling hot water on the flesh side and scrub it as hard as > you can with a rough (notwire) brush. that will make the hide come out > very > white and clean. I usually get a better price at auction that way. Sean, That could only cook the hide which is why it turns white! I thought I heard and saw it all but never heard of this method!? I don't recommend it. Freezing half wet hides I heard turn them white too. Thats better than pouring boiling water on them anyway. Some things just cannot be properly discussed in type. It's just too hard to explain how to put up pelts in print, it has to be seen first hand to learn how to do. But I don't recommend pouring boiling water on any hide. Sorry Sean. Remeber the old rule of thumb on braining hides- "If it's too hot to stick your hand in, it's too hot for a hide". bb ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wynn Ormond" <cheyenne@pcu.net> Subject: MtMan-List: X Question Date: 13 Nov 2003 19:55:30 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C3AA20.17BC5600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Real quick. =20 A young friend of mine has been asked by his teacher for a mountain man = word that starts with X. I have a couple of ideas but I want to see if = you have any better ones. Need it tonight if possible. Wynn Ormond ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C3AA20.17BC5600 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Real quick. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A young friend of mine has been asked = by his=20 teacher for a mountain man word that starts with X. I have a = couple of=20 ideas but I want to see if you have any better ones. Need it = tonight if=20 possible.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Wynn Ormond</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C3AA20.17BC5600-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: X Question Date: 13 Nov 2003 19:53:00 -0700 (MST) X-wife > Real quick. > > A young friend of mine has been asked by his teacher for a mountain man > word that starts with X. I have a couple of ideas but I want to see if > you have any better ones. Need it tonight if possible. > > Wynn Ormond > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: X Question Date: 13 Nov 2003 19:53:00 -0700 (MST) X-wife > Real quick. > > A young friend of mine has been asked by his teacher for a mountain man > word that starts with X. I have a couple of ideas but I want to see if > you have any better ones. Need it tonight if possible. > > Wynn Ormond > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jason Chasse" <jchasse@gwi.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: X Question Date: 13 Nov 2003 13:56:44 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C3A9ED.F921EFC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ABSAROKA: Crow Territory. The Crow word means "Land of the = Sparrow-Hawk People."=20 APISHEMORE: Saddle Pad=20 ARWERDENTY: Liquor. A corruption of the Spanish.=20 BLACK YOUR FACE AGAINST (TO): To be at war with. From the Indian = custom of blacking the face to show the tribe is on the warpath.=20 BOUDINS: Buffalo guts, a treat for the mountain gourmet.=20 BUG'S BOYS: Children of Satan; the familiar name for the Blackfeet.=20 BULLTHROWER: Rifle, usually of Hawken make.=20 CACHE: To hide or conceal; applicable either to one's self or one's = goods. Also used as a noun: the hidden goods; from the French. (See = Naming the Cache la Poudre River )=20 CHILD, COON, CRITTUR, BEAVER, NIGGUR: Interchangeable terms for = person, either one's self or someone else. They did not necessarily = carry a charge of denigration; the term nuggur was applied freely to = white, red, and black men.=20 COME (TO MAKE SOMEONE); To kill a person or animal, as in "I made two = of the varmints come that day."=20 COUNT COUP (TO): To execute a coup (to do a brave deed such as killing = someone, scalping him, or striking him with a coup-stick):or to relate = one's brave deeds in a formal manner.=20 DUPONT: Gunpowder. From the name of the manufacturer.=20 ENGAG=C9: A hired hand, sometimes French-Canadian. Of lower social = status than a free trapper or a trapper contracted for part of his take; = from the French.=20 FOOFURAW: Trinkets, doodads, decorative trivia fancied by women, = especially Indian women. By extension, the quality of having a fancy for = the same, as in, "She was a deal too foofuraw to suit me."=20 GALENA: Lead for balls.=20 GO UNDER (TO): To die or be killed, usually the latter. Gone beaver = was used in the same sense, but only in that past participle form.=20 GREEN RIVER: A knife. From the name of the manufacturer, not the name = of the river. To shove it in to the Green River meant to shove the knife = in to the hilt, where the trademark of the manufacturer was engraved. By = extension, to do anything up to the Green River meant to do it to the = full.=20 HA'R OF THE B'AR: To say that a man had the ha'r of the b'ar in him = was a supreme form of praise. The expression probably came from the = Indian belief that a man could become more brave by eating the hair of = the grizzly bear.=20 HAWKEN: A rifle. The most valued rifle in the mountains was the = flintlock model made by the Hawken brothers.=20 HUMPRIBS: The small ribs that support the hump of the buffalo. See = also meatbag.=20 LEV=C9, LECH=C9 LEGO; wake up, turn out. Usually used in combination = (Possibly a corruption of the French.)=20 MANGEUR DE LARD: Literally, eater of pork in French. Figuratively, an = inexperienced man. Said of a man who is used to the diet of the = settlements (which would include pork) and not of the mountains (almost = exclusively buffalo meat) Always a term of denigration.=20 MEATBAG: Stomach, or an animal or human being. The trappers frequently = applied the terms they used for buffalo anatomy (fleece, humpribs, = boudins) to human beings.=20 OLD EPHRAIM: Grizzly bear.=20 ON THE PERAIRA: Free. As in "He gave me a rifle on the peraira." = Peraira is a dialectical version of prairie.=20 PLEW: Beaver pelt. A corruption of the French plus.=20 POOL BULL, FAT COW: Figuratively, poor eating, living, or times, as = opposed to good eating, living or times. A trapper might mention that he = was forced to eat crickets and comment, "That was poor bull, sure." To = know poor bull from fat cow was to know what was what, what was bad and = what was good, to understand mountain ways. Derived from the fact that, = except as calving time, the meat of the bull would be more muscular and = less fatty than the meat of a cow, therefore tougher and less enjoyable. = POSSIBLES, POSSIBLE SACK: Equipment; sack for carrying equipment.=20 SHINE (TO): To suffice, to be suitable or good. As in, "Red blood = don't shine." Shinin' suggested fine or splendid, as in, "Them was = shinin' times."=20 SHOT IN THE LIGHTS (TO BE): To be shot in the vitals.=20 SOME: Remarkable, admirable. "That Jed was some, now. He had the ha'r = of the b'ar in him. Wagh!"=20 TAOS LIGHTNING: A potent liquor.=20 VIDE-POCHE: Literally, empty-pocket. Usually said of French-Canadians, = French speakers of Indian-white descent, etc. Figuratively, the = equivalent of worthless no-good.=20 VOYAGEUR: Boatman, usually French-Canadian. Voyageurs did the hard = pulling (cordeling) to get a keelboat upriver. They were widely thought = to be cowards and therefore held in contempt by the trappers.=20 WAGH: An exclamation of surprise, admiration, etc. Sounded like a = grunt.=20 THE WAY THE STICK FLOATS: To know the way the stick floats was to know = what's up, what's what. Only an experienced mountain man would be said = to know the way the stick floats. The expression came from the use of a = float stick attached to a beaver trap to indicate where the trap was if = the beaver swam away with it. Its meaning was extended to suggest = knowing the ways of the mountain.=20 http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/amm/gloss.html Try these pard Kid ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C3A9ED.F921EFC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <UL><B></B></UL> <UL><B></B></UL> <UL><B></B></UL> <UL><B></B></UL> <UL><B></B></UL> <UL><B></B></UL> <UL><STRONG>ABSAROKA: Crow Territory. The Crow word means "Land of the=20 Sparrow-Hawk People." </STRONG> <P><STRONG>APISHEMORE: Saddle Pad </STRONG> <P><STRONG>ARWERDENTY: Liquor. A corruption of the Spanish. </STRONG> <P><STRONG>BLACK YOUR FACE AGAINST (TO): To be at war with. From the = Indian=20 custom of blacking the face to show the tribe is on the warpath. = </STRONG> <P><STRONG>BOUDINS: Buffalo guts, a treat for the mountain gourmet. = </STRONG> <P><STRONG>BUG'S BOYS: Children of Satan; the familiar name for the = Blackfeet.=20 </STRONG> <P><STRONG>BULLTHROWER: Rifle, usually of Hawken make. </STRONG> <P><STRONG>CACHE: To hide or conceal; applicable either to one's self = or one's=20 goods. Also used as a noun: the hidden goods; from the French. (See <A = href=3D"http://www.over-land.com/cache.html">Naming the Cache la = Poudre River=20 </A>) </STRONG> <P><STRONG>CHILD, COON, CRITTUR, BEAVER, NIGGUR: Interchangeable terms = for=20 person, either one's self or someone else. They did not necessarily = carry a=20 charge of denigration; the term <I>nuggur </I>was applied freely to = white,=20 red, and black men. </STRONG> <P><STRONG>COME (TO MAKE SOMEONE); To kill a person or animal, as in = "I made=20 two of the varmints come that day." </STRONG> <P><STRONG>COUNT COUP (TO): To execute a coup (to do a brave deed such = as=20 killing someone, scalping him, or striking him with a coup-stick):or = to relate=20 one's brave deeds in a formal manner. </STRONG> <P><STRONG>DUPONT: Gunpowder. From the name of the manufacturer. = </STRONG> <P><STRONG>ENGAG=C9: A hired hand, sometimes French-Canadian. Of lower = social=20 status than a free trapper or a trapper contracted for part of his = take; from=20 the French. </STRONG> <P><STRONG>FOOFURAW: Trinkets, doodads, decorative trivia fancied by = women,=20 especially Indian women. By extension, the quality of having a fancy = for the=20 same, as in, "She was a deal too foofuraw to suit me." </STRONG> <P><STRONG>GALENA: Lead for balls. </STRONG> <P><STRONG>GO UNDER (TO): To die or be killed, usually the latter. = Gone beaver=20 was used in the same sense, but only in that past participle form. = </STRONG> <P><STRONG>GREEN RIVER: A knife. From the name of the manufacturer, = not the=20 name of the river. To <I>shove it in to the Green River </I>meant to = shove the=20 knife in to the hilt, where the trademark of the manufacturer was = engraved. By=20 extension, to do anything <I>up to the Green River</I> meant to do it = to the=20 full. </STRONG> <P><STRONG>HA'R OF THE B'AR: To say that a man had the ha'r of the = b'ar in him=20 was a supreme form of praise. The expression probably came from the = Indian=20 belief that a man could become more brave by eating the hair of the = grizzly=20 bear. </STRONG> <P><STRONG>HAWKEN: A rifle. The most valued rifle in the mountains was = the=20 flintlock model made by the Hawken brothers. </STRONG> <P><STRONG>HUMPRIBS: The small ribs that support the hump of the = buffalo. See=20 also <I>meatbag. </I></STRONG> <P><STRONG>LEV=C9, LECH=C9 LEGO; wake up, turn out. Usually used in = combination=20 (Possibly a corruption of the French.) </STRONG> <P><STRONG>MANGEUR DE LARD: Literally, <I>eater of pork </I>in French. = Figuratively, an inexperienced man. Said of a man who is used to the = diet of=20 the settlements (which would include pork) and not of the mountains = (almost=20 exclusively buffalo meat) Always a term of denigration. </STRONG> <P><STRONG>MEATBAG: Stomach, or an animal or human being. The trappers = frequently applied the terms they used for buffalo anatomy (fleece, = humpribs,=20 boudins) to human beings. </STRONG> <P><STRONG>OLD EPHRAIM: Grizzly bear. </STRONG> <P><STRONG>ON THE PERAIRA: Free. As in "He gave me a rifle on the = peraira."=20 <I>Peraira </I>is a dialectical version of <I>prairie. </I></STRONG> <P><STRONG>PLEW: Beaver pelt. A corruption of the French <I>plus.=20 </I></STRONG> <P><STRONG>POOL BULL, FAT COW: Figuratively, poor eating, living, or = times, as=20 opposed to good eating, living or times. A trapper might mention that = he was=20 forced to eat crickets and comment, "That was poor bull, sure." To = <I>know=20 poor bull from fat cow </I>was to know what was what, what was bad and = what=20 was good, to understand mountain ways. Derived from the fact that, = except as=20 calving time, the meat of the bull would be more muscular and less = fatty than=20 the meat of a cow, therefore tougher and less enjoyable. </STRONG> <P><STRONG>POSSIBLES, POSSIBLE SACK: Equipment; sack for carrying = equipment.=20 </STRONG> <P><STRONG>SHINE (TO): To suffice, to be suitable or good. As in, "Red = blood=20 don't shine." <I>Shinin'</I> suggested fine or splendid, as in, "Them = was=20 shinin' times." </STRONG> <P><STRONG>SHOT IN THE LIGHTS (TO BE): To be shot in the vitals. = </STRONG> <P><STRONG>SOME: Remarkable, admirable. "That Jed was some, now. He = had the=20 ha'r of the b'ar in him. Wagh!" </STRONG> <P><STRONG>TAOS LIGHTNING: A potent liquor. </STRONG> <P><STRONG>VIDE-POCHE: Literally, empty-pocket. Usually said of=20 French-Canadians, French speakers of Indian-white descent, etc. = Figuratively,=20 the equivalent of worthless no-good. </STRONG> <P><STRONG>VOYAGEUR: Boatman, usually French-Canadian. Voyageurs did = the hard=20 pulling (cordeling) to get a keelboat upriver. They were widely = thought to be=20 cowards and therefore held in contempt by the trappers. </STRONG> <P><STRONG>WAGH: An exclamation of surprise, admiration, etc. Sounded = like a=20 grunt. </STRONG> <P><STRONG>THE WAY THE STICK FLOATS: To know the way the stick floats = was to=20 know what's up, what's what. Only an experienced mountain man would be = said to=20 know the way the stick floats. The expression came from the use of a = float=20 stick attached to a beaver trap to indicate where the trap was if the = beaver=20 swam away with it. Its meaning was extended to suggest knowing the = ways of the=20 mountain. </STRONG></P> <P> </P> <P><A=20 = href=3D"http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/amm/gloss.html"><STRONG>http://www= .xmission.com/~drudy/amm/gloss.html</STRONG></A></P> <P> </P> <P>Try these pard</P> <P>Kid</P></UL></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C3A9ED.F921EFC0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sean Boushie" <flintlocknfur@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver Skinning Date: 14 Nov 2003 05:12:45 +0000 Oh yes I agree this is one thing ya just gotta learn by doin. I learned that water thing from Fuzzy Barton himself years ago, no I would never do that to a deer hide, but I always got a better price. I'd agree even more if the pelt was going for fur instead of to the hatter. Its definately something NOT to try on any other animal. Didn't we discuss this before?? >From: beaverboy@sofast.net >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver Skinning >Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 19:44:54 -0700 (MST) > > One trick I use is after I get it fleshed and > > streched, pour boiling hot water on the flesh side and scrub it as hard >as > > you can with a rough (notwire) brush. that will make the hide come out > > very > > white and clean. I usually get a better price at auction that way. > > Sean, > That could only cook the hide which is why it turns white! I thought >I heard and saw it all but never heard of this method!? I don't >recommend it. Freezing half wet hides I heard turn them white too. >Thats better than pouring boiling water on them anyway. > Some things just cannot be properly discussed in type. It's just too >hard to explain how to put up pelts in print, it has to be seen first >hand to learn how to do. But I don't recommend pouring boiling water >on any hide. Sorry Sean. Remeber the old rule of thumb on braining >hides- "If it's too hot to stick your hand in, it's too hot for a >hide". > bb > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html _________________________________________________________________ MSN Messenger with backgrounds, emoticons and more. http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/cdp_customize ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "roger lahti" <amm1719@charter.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: X Question Date: 13 Nov 2003 21:27:00 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C3AA2C.DFC10E00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Wonderful post Kit but which one of these words starts with an X? <G> Capt. Lahti' ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C3AA2C.DFC10E00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1170" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2>Wonderful = post Kit but which=20 one of these words starts with an X? <G></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2>Capt. = Lahti'</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" = size=3D2></FONT> </DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C3AA2C.DFC10E00-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dunc <duncanm@ihug.co.nz> Subject: MtMan-List: Cleaning a water bottle Date: 14 Nov 2003 23:04:55 +1300 If you have a water bottle ( plastic or metal) or maybe a coffee pot which has been forgotten and got a bit stinky,stained or mouldy,or even a crusty old cup, a good way to clean it is to use the sterilizer tablets used to clean baby bottles, I have found one to two tablets in hot water will clean a water bottle spotless in a couple of days soaking.These tablets are obviously non toxic but the do have a slight bleach smell which may need to be rinsed out of a coffee or tea pot. Cheers Dunc ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: amm1616@comcast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: X Question Date: 14 Nov 2003 14:03:21 +0000 Wynn, One I can think of off the top of my head is "X" Beidler. He is found associated with the John Johnson story. But you can always look through the 1700+ names in the data base I did a few years ago for Dean's web site and look through all the mountain men's names and see if find any. mike. P.s. I will be updating the list in about 6 months- I think I can add about 200 more names to the list. With many more references to the men. > X-wife > > > > Real quick. > > > > A young friend of mine has been asked by his teacher for a mountain man > > word that starts with X. I have a couple of ideas but I want to see if > > you have any better ones. Need it tonight if possible. > > > > Wynn Ormond > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Samuel Keller <wolftalk_98@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Cleaning a water bottle Date: 14 Nov 2003 06:28:47 -0800 (PST) Clean out my Coffee Pot???? It took me 20 years to get it where it would make dood coffee. --- Dunc <duncanm@ihug.co.nz> wrote: > If you have a water bottle ( plastic or metal) or > maybe a coffee pot which > has been forgotten and got a bit stinky,stained or > mouldy,or even a crusty > old cup, a good way to clean it is to use the > sterilizer tablets used to > clean baby bottles, I have found one to two tablets > in hot water will clean > a water bottle spotless in a couple of days > soaking.These tablets are > obviously non toxic but the do have a slight bleach > smell which may need > to be rinsed out of a coffee or tea pot. > > Cheers Dunc > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TrapRJoe@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver Skinning Date: 14 Nov 2003 11:19:56 EST Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I read what you all have said about skinning and fleshing beaver. While I am sure many of you can clean skin a beaver, I can't. Sam Greasel was the best I ever saw. He could clean skin a beaver in just a little over 10 min. He bragged it and I timed him. He did it without getting in a rush. As for fleshing the best way I have found was shown to me by a man working for what used to be the Hudson Bay Co., Now called the North American Fur Exchange, it think. You simply lay the hide over your leg and flesh with a razor sharp knife, pushing the fat and meat away from you. The extra feel you get with your leg keep you from going to deep. Also notice I said push the fat and meat away from you, if you slice, you will cut the hide. Your knife must be razor sharp, usually requiring the use of the hone many times and about one knife per hide if you have a good knife, before resharpening. It help if the knife is thin thickness, and wide width and with a little flexion in the blade. TrapRJoe Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML><HEAD> <META charset=3DUTF-8 http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charse= t=3Dutf-8"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1226" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff= f"> <DIV>I read what you all have said about skinning and fleshing beaver. While= I am sure many of you can clean skin a beaver, I can't. Sam Greasel w= as the best I ever saw. He could clean skin a beaver in just a little over 1= 0 min. He bragged it and I timed him. He did it without getting in a r= ush. As for fleshing the best way I have found was shown to me by a ma= n working for what used to be the Hudson Bay Co., Now called the North Ameri= can Fur Exchange, it think. You simply lay the hide over your leg and=20= flesh with a razor sharp knife, pushing the fat and meat away from you. = ; The extra feel you get with your leg keep you from going to deep. Al= so notice I said push the fat and meat away from you, if you slice, you will= cut the hide. Your knife must be razor sharp, usually requiring the use of=20= the hone many times and about one knife per hide if you have a good knife, b= efore resharpening. It help if the knife is thin thickness, and wide width&n= bsp;and with a little flexion in the blade.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> &n= bsp; &n= bsp; TrapRJoe</DIV>= </BODY></HTML> ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" <admiller@citynet.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Cleaning a water bottle Date: 14 Nov 2003 12:13:55 -0500 Also try Efferdent or any fizzing denture tablets... does the same thing. However, as has been said, I NEVER clean out my coffee pot. Rinse it with cold water, maybe... but clean it?? <LOL> Made that mistake ONCE in the Navy. Cleaned up the whole Coffee Mess... scoured the big pot, all of the cups, etc... until they shined! BIG mistake... Regards, Ad Miller ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bedding Date: 14 Nov 2003 12:20:24 -0600 If you have three pack mules you have all the extra padding/bedding you can use. Each animal has at least one saddle blanket (epishemore) per animal. A saddle blanket is basically a folded blanket, thick pads of felted hair are also common and useful. An epishemore is a saddle blanket made from a buffalo robe. Add the above to your sleeping blankets and a tarp which covers a pack during the day and you've got pretty comfy sleeping no matter the weather. When I was on the trail I only had one pack animal plus my riding horse the padding from just two critters made a very comfortable bed along with my two blankets in very cold weather. Didn't have a thermometer or radio along so I really can't say how cold. Some nights a small fire warmed canvas, or a rock ledge, used as a leanto/reflector. A large dog is a great comfort if you don't have a Jill. My experience with hair-on hide has been less than wonderful. I've never broken down and bought a brain tan buffalo robe so on that I can't fairly comment. Lance Grabowski has cut up several for coats and vests and such so at least one of us was brave enough. I would think Crazy is right about it being too warm 363 days a year unless you were a teamster or a drover on the windswept plains. I can comment on commercial tan buffalo, bear, elk, sheep and deer. I have had excellent results with both real and faux braintan deer, elk and moose leather. MOST hair-on commercial tan hides have not properly neutralized the acids in the tanning process. Hence when used on the ground (or stored on a closet shelf in Missouri) they will absorb water and rot. The hollow hair of elk and deer never quits breaking, it never seems to thin out but the constant hair everywhere becomes old fast, it will even show up in your food. Hides are also heavy and more difficult to pack than blankets. All are a pleasure under you at night. I've had less rotting with commercial sheep than with deer, buffalo, elk and bear. I have two Hudson Bays I bought in the mid '70's they have served well many nights since. They are still warm and a part of my bedroll with the luxurious hand-loomed blankets I now enjoy. Perhaps mine are still warm and useful because they haven't been washed much. I do hang them in the hot sun for a day and beat them with a carpet beater every year or so. I have over a dozen blankets in my bedroll, I don't take all of them all of the time. Do not let anyone tell you the European military cot blankets are inferior they are smaller than a 4 point that's all, so were the blankets traded during the period. I have purchased and used several and find them to be of good quality, my winter leggings and some other gear is made from them. For $10 to $20 each they are a great value. If you want to wrap up in canvas consider that A 300 thread count Egyptian cotton sheet used in place of canvas breaks the wind as efficiently with much less weight. When you lay out your bed if you are using a four point under you, fold it lengthwise in quarters to increase warmth. A cot blanket is better folded in thirds: because it is smaller. If you have two blankets to place under you fold the first only lengthwise then fold the second again in half. This way (with 4 point blankets) you have 4 layers under your legs and feet and 12 layers under the trunk of your body. Wrap up in your sleeping blankets and canvas and you'll stay plenty warm. If you are wrapping canvas around you DO NOT use oil cloth or you will be wet, wet equals cold; particularly in humid areas. Canvas can often be used better as a reflector than as a wrap. It takes some bedding to stay comfortable in winter, survival can be done with a lot less. We are (in most instances) no longer able to practice old ways of woodcraft (bough beds and such) as it would denude areas we must share with others. Because we can't cut what we want every night it requires us to carry what we need. A toboggan is one practical choice: without snow a wheelbarrow (like Buck Connor uses) is another. Of course horses were the chosen method back then, but then this is now. Dog sleds, sledges, travois, knapsacks, primitive style packframe/chairs and many other quasi period methods are available to a clever mind. Just remember none are accurate portrayals they are expedients required because of time and circumstance. A hand cart is as anachronistic as my Pickup; some seem to think it looks better in camp. Ole has detailed what would be a practical and not uncommon bedroll of the period, yes it is a lot of weight but much of it would have been used first for other purposes. Mountain Men weren't backpackers, most of the time. Many years ago I was inspecting an old hotel in an out of the way location in Wyoming; down in storage there was a huge bundle of canvas, blankets, quilts, comforters, sheep skins and every other kind of thing you can imagine. When I asked what it was the manager explained it was a sheep herders bedroll that they were holding against room rent, when cold weather came he would redeem it. John... At 05:23 PM 11/12/03, you wrote: >No problem if you have three mules. >Don > >>Ole, >> >>What do you estimate the total weight to be of 1 Hudson bay, 1 Whitney, 2 >>Barron 5 point blankets wrapped with canvas, together with the addition of 3 >>Hudson bay's and 1 Whitney as a ground pad wrapped with Russian sheeting? >>Can you carry this or does it require some other means of transportation? >>It will surely keep you warm and dry, but the bulk and weight seem somewhat >>intimidating in my view, and I would assume that this set-up is not for a >>walk-in situation, or am I mistaken? >> >>Regards, >> >>Paul >> >> >> > Don, >> > For years I have used 1 hudson bay, 1 whitney, and 2 Barron 5 point >> > blankets wraped with canvas. >> > In the future I will use the same with the addition of 3 hudson bay's >> > and 1 whitney as a ground pad wraped with russian sheating. >> > Ole >> > On Tuesday, November 11, 2003, at 07:00 PM, Phyllis and Don Keas wrote: >> > >> > > Wool blankets have always done me very well. The coldest I have slept >> > > is 12 below and two Witneys. I did all right, but now I am older and >> > > plan on carrying three in the winter. Old age you know. Don >> > > >> > > On Monday, November 10, 2003 11:42 AM, roger lahti >> > > <amm1719@charter.net> wrote: >> > >> I got to agree with bb on bison robes being a pain if they get wet. >> > >> But I >> > >> suspect that, well I know my robe is warmer than an equivalent weight >> > >> of >> > >> wool blanket. To make the blankets warm at all you still need some >> > >> sort of >> > >> air barrier like a canvas bed roll to cut the air movement by the >> > >> blanket. >> > >> The robe comes with it's own barrier but it's not water repellent at >> > >> all. >> > >> Brain tan is very light though when done right with plenty of hide >> > >> shaving >> > >> to get it thin as possible. >> > >> >> > >> I still have good use for my wool blankets. >> > >> >> > >> Capt. Lahti >> > >> >> > >> >> > > >If it ain't exactly right, it's wrong. >john <kramer@kramerize.com> > >Take a look at all the prime plunder being auctioned for the benefit of >the American Mountain Men >http://amm-auction.com/ ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver Skinning Date: 14 Nov 2003 15:02:51 -0700 (MST) I saw a man from Canada flesh a beaver like that too. But he kind of suspended the pelt from his knee to his hand. He was was fast at it too. Scared me to watch him. bb > I read what you all have said about skinning and fleshing beaver. While I > am > sure many of you can clean skin a beaver, I can't. Sam Greasel was the > best I > ever saw. He could clean skin a beaver in just a little over 10 min. He > bragged it and I timed him. He did it without getting in a rush. As for > fleshing > the best way I have found was shown to me by a man working for what used > to be > the Hudson Bay Co., Now called the North American Fur Exchange, it think. > You simply lay the hide over your leg and flesh with a razor sharp knife, > pushing the fat and meat away from you. The extra feel you get with your > leg keep > you from going to deep. Also notice I said push the fat and meat away > from > you, if you slice, you will cut the hide. Your knife must be razor sharp, > usually > requiring the use of the hone many times and about one knife per hide if > you > have a good knife, before resharpening. It help if the knife is thin > thickness, and wide width and with a little flexion in the blade. > > TrapRJoe > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver Skinning Date: 14 Nov 2003 15:04:59 -0700 (MST) No we haven't discussed this before. I'm sure I would have remembered the "boiling water on the pelt trick"! bb > Oh yes I agree this is one thing ya just gotta learn by doin. I learned > that water thing from Fuzzy Barton himself years ago, no I would never do > that to a deer hide, but I always got a better price. I'd agree even more > if > the pelt was going for fur instead of to the hatter. Its definately > something NOT to try on any other animal. Didn't we discuss this before?? > > >>From: beaverboy@sofast.net >>Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >>To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver Skinning >>Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 19:44:54 -0700 (MST) >> >> One trick I use is after I get it fleshed and >> > streched, pour boiling hot water on the flesh side and scrub it as >> hard >>as >> > you can with a rough (notwire) brush. that will make the hide come out >> > very >> > white and clean. I usually get a better price at auction that way. >> >> Sean, >> That could only cook the hide which is why it turns white! I >> thought >>I heard and saw it all but never heard of this method!? I don't >>recommend it. Freezing half wet hides I heard turn them white too. >>Thats better than pouring boiling water on them anyway. >> Some things just cannot be properly discussed in type. It's just too >>hard to explain how to put up pelts in print, it has to be seen first >>hand to learn how to do. But I don't recommend pouring boiling water >>on any hide. Sorry Sean. Remeber the old rule of thumb on braining >>hides- "If it's too hot to stick your hand in, it's too hot for a >>hide". >> bb >> >> >>---------------------- >>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Messenger with backgrounds, emoticons and more. > http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/cdp_customize > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TrapRJoe@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver Skinning Date: 14 Nov 2003 17:24:49 EST Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit More than likely the same man, but the really tough spots, I found myself going to my leg and the feel helped. I found that I'm much fast at it this way other wise I'm very slow at fleshing and my hands hurt afterwards. I have had many a night when I have cought a dozen or so. On those days I needed all the shortcuts I could find, without giving up quility. This method improved both. Traprjoe Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML><HEAD> <META charset=3DUTF-8 http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charse= t=3Dutf-8"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1226" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff= f"> <DIV>More than likely the same man, but the really tough spots, I found myse= lf going to my leg and the feel helped. I found that I'm much fast at it thi= s way other wise I'm very slow at fleshing and my hands hurt afterwards.&nbs= p; I have had many a night when I have cought a dozen or so. On those days I= needed all the shortcuts I could find, without giving up quility. Thi= s method improved both.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> &n= bsp; &n= bsp; &n= bsp; Traprjoe</DIV></BODY></HTML> ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: HikingOnThru@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver Skinning Date: 14 Nov 2003 22:33:55 EST In a message dated 11/12/03 11:49:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, cheyenne@pcu.net writes: << But it worked on the beaver. The only question left that neither of us knew was how much do you need to take off. >> Well Wynne, Unless your blade is just very sharp and cuts through the hide (beaver are like deer, hides vary so be diligent), you are generally safe. I have heard of fellows taking a belt sander to them on flesh side to thin down after tanning and before softening so it will not be so stiff! -C.Kent ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: HikingOnThru@cs.com Subject: MtMan-List: Beaver Skinning with a Canon bone. Date: 14 Nov 2003 22:40:19 EST I have heard of a method used in Canada by natives of skinning a beaver that was hanging upside down that made use of a deer canon bone cut at a pretty sharp angle. Sorta used a chopping motion and the result was a clean skinned hide in relatively little time. Anyone know about this? -C.Kent ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James and Sue Stone <jandsstone@earthlink.net> Subject: MtMan-List: commercially tanned elk hide shedding? Date: 14 Nov 2003 22:22:22 -0700 Gee, I've had a commercially tanned hair-on elk skin hanging in the family room now for about five years and never noticed a shedding problem. Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't think my three golden retrievers have noticed either. I can't see where it causes any more problem then the hundred pounds of wool fleece we have in the attached garage. And.I've never examined the hair I clean from the frying pan to see if it is retriever or elk...I just clean it out and cook. (tongue firmly in cheek) Sparks ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "roger lahti" <amm1719@CHARTER.NET> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: commercially tanned elk hide shedding? Date: 14 Nov 2003 21:44:14 -0800 Gee Sparks, How's the hair going to break off with that old rug hanging on the wall? Thought we were talking about using them as a sleeping robe or pad not a wall hanging. <G> PS. Don't bite your tongue. Capt. Lahti' ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 9:22 PM > Gee, > I've had a commercially tanned hair-on elk skin hanging in the family > room now for about five years and never noticed a shedding problem. > Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't think my three golden > retrievers have noticed either. I can't see where it causes any more > problem then the hundred pounds of wool fleece we have in the attached > garage. And.I've never examined the hair I clean from the frying pan to > see if it is retriever or elk...I just clean it out and cook. > (tongue firmly in cheek) > Sparks > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver Skinning with a Canon bone. Date: 14 Nov 2003 23:09:39 -0700 (MST) I once saw an Canadian indian woman skinning a beaver (on TV) with an ulu. The beaver was laying on the ground but she was using a pushing (almost a pushing/chopping) motion, no doubt clean skinning it. The only time I've ever seen a beaver skinned while hanging was by my good friend Larry D. (the greatest skinner I know!, I timed him skin a rat in 30 seconds, and saw him skin 26 warm coyotes in under 2 1/2 hours by himself, this guy is a legend and owns Thunder Mountain Fur in Great Falls, MT ) Anyway, he would cut all the feet off, then open the end of the beaver, hang it from a meat hook slipped under the beaver tail skin and he then pulled a lot of the hide off. He did of course have to work the knife around the front legs and head but Larry knows how to get any skinning job done FAST. Larry is a great furbuyer too and buys all my fur. Ain't no easy way to skin a beaver. Just a sharp knife and time. The more you do the faster you get. Their easy to do once you learn how and a real pleasure compared to stinking, flea ridden fox and coyotes. Beaver can sit on a cool floor for a day or two as well and not go bad. I like um. bb > I have heard of a method used in Canada by natives of skinning a beaver > that > was hanging upside down that made use of a deer canon bone cut at a > pretty > sharp angle. > Sorta used a chopping motion and the result was a clean skinned hide in > relatively little time. Anyone know about this? > > -C.Kent > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: MtMan-List: Bedding Date: 14 Nov 2003 23:37:42 -0700 (MST) Dear List, I have another question, How do you guys clean your bison robes? I ended up hanging mine on the fence and using a pet shampoo and garden hose to do the job by hand. Then let it hang in the sun to dry. Came out smelling pretty. bb ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sean Boushie" <flintlocknfur@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Bedding Date: 15 Nov 2003 06:49:11 +0000 I'm not touching this one............... >From: beaverboy@sofast.net >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >To: hist_text@xmission.com >Subject: MtMan-List: Bedding >Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 23:37:42 -0700 (MST) > >Dear List, > I have another question, How do you guys clean your bison robes? I >ended up hanging mine on the fence and using a pet shampoo and garden >hose to do the job by hand. Then let it hang in the sun to dry. Came >out smelling pretty. > bb > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html _________________________________________________________________ Send a QuickGreet with MSN Messenger http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/cdp_games ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: MtMan-List: Banff Mountain Film Festival Date: 14 Nov 2003 23:55:25 -0700 (MST) Dear List, Went to the (traveling) Banff Mountain Film Festival tonight! A hunting season tradition for me! If you ever get a chance to see this traveling film show, go!! Extreme skiing, kayaking, biking, unicycles, etc... Incredible!!!! These young whipper snappers are filled with the same spirit as the original Mountain Men and doing it in the mountains! This year wasn't as great as the usual but they had a great film about a Tibetan nomad family. It is amazing how similar they were (are) to North American indians but still living the life as well as they could. One year they showed a film about a Inuit man living on the ice, a great film!!! The only film I didn't care for this year was about the wolf reintroduction in Idaho (a sore topic for Montanan's as well). It was a clearly (tilted one side anyway) pro-wolf film and didn't get a great applause when finished. Maybe it was too close to home. I almost booed it. Their side has a hard time dealing with the realities of life and death in the great outdoors. They even brought up the terrible "leghold trap" the same trap that caught some of the wolves they reintroduced! Off the topic a little but hey!, it did have Mountain in the title and trapping! Great evening! beaverboy ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "don secondine" <dmdhsecondine@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bedding Date: 15 Nov 2003 06:56:12 +0000 Good points and well taken. Where can a fellow get Egyptian cotton sheeting? Don Secondine >From: John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com> >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bedding >Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:20:24 -0600 > > >If you have three pack mules you have all the extra padding/bedding you can >use. Each animal has at least one saddle blanket (epishemore) per animal. >A saddle blanket is basically a folded blanket, thick pads of felted hair >are also common and useful. An epishemore is a saddle blanket made from a >buffalo robe. > >Add the above to your sleeping blankets and a tarp which covers a pack >during the day and you've got pretty comfy sleeping no matter the weather. > >When I was on the trail I only had one pack animal plus my riding horse the >padding from just two critters made a very comfortable bed along with my >two blankets in very cold weather. Didn't have a thermometer or radio >along so I really can't say how cold. Some nights a small fire warmed >canvas, or a rock ledge, used as a leanto/reflector. A large dog is a >great comfort if you don't have a Jill. > >My experience with hair-on hide has been less than wonderful. I've never >broken down and bought a brain tan buffalo robe so on that I can't fairly >comment. Lance Grabowski has cut up several for coats and vests and such >so at least one of us was brave enough. I would think Crazy is right about >it being too warm 363 days a year unless you were a teamster or a drover on >the windswept plains. > >I can comment on commercial tan buffalo, bear, elk, sheep and deer. I have >had excellent results with both real and faux braintan deer, elk and moose >leather. > >MOST hair-on commercial tan hides have not properly neutralized the acids >in the tanning process. Hence when used on the ground (or stored on a >closet shelf in Missouri) they will absorb water and rot. The hollow hair >of elk and deer never quits breaking, it never seems to thin out but the >constant hair everywhere becomes old fast, it will even show up in your >food. Hides are also heavy and more difficult to pack than blankets. All >are a pleasure under you at night. I've had less rotting with commercial >sheep than with deer, buffalo, elk and bear. > >I have two Hudson Bays I bought in the mid '70's they have served well many >nights since. They are still warm and a part of my bedroll with the >luxurious hand-loomed blankets I now enjoy. Perhaps mine are still warm >and useful because they haven't been washed much. I do hang them in the >hot sun for a day and beat them with a carpet beater every year or so. I >have over a dozen blankets in my bedroll, I don't take all of them all of >the time. > >Do not let anyone tell you the European military cot blankets are inferior >they are smaller than a 4 point that's all, so were the blankets traded >during the period. I have purchased and used several and find them to be >of good quality, my winter leggings and some other gear is made from them. >For $10 to $20 each they are a great value. > >If you want to wrap up in canvas consider that A 300 thread count Egyptian >cotton sheet used in place of canvas breaks the wind as efficiently with >much less weight. > >When you lay out your bed if you are using a four point under you, fold it >lengthwise in quarters to increase warmth. A cot blanket is better folded >in thirds: because it is smaller. If you have two blankets to place under >you fold the first only lengthwise then fold the second again in half. >This way (with 4 point blankets) you have 4 layers under your legs and feet >and 12 layers under the trunk of your body. Wrap up in your sleeping >blankets and canvas and you'll stay plenty warm. If you are wrapping >canvas around you DO NOT use oil cloth or you will be wet, wet equals cold; >particularly in humid areas. Canvas can often be used better as a >reflector than as a wrap. > >It takes some bedding to stay comfortable in winter, survival can be done >with a lot less. We are (in most instances) no longer able to practice old >ways of woodcraft (bough beds and such) as it would denude areas we must >share with others. Because we can't cut what we want every night it >requires us to carry what we need. A toboggan is one practical choice: >without snow a wheelbarrow (like Buck Connor uses) is another. Of course >horses were the chosen method back then, but then this is now. Dog sleds, >sledges, travois, knapsacks, primitive style packframe/chairs and many >other quasi period methods are available to a clever mind. Just remember >none are accurate portrayals they are expedients required because of time >and circumstance. A hand cart is as anachronistic as my Pickup; some seem >to think it looks better in camp. > >Ole has detailed what would be a practical and not uncommon bedroll of the >period, yes it is a lot of weight but much of it would have been used first >for other purposes. Mountain Men weren't backpackers, most of the time. > >Many years ago I was inspecting an old hotel in an out of the way location >in Wyoming; down in storage there was a huge bundle of canvas, blankets, >quilts, comforters, sheep skins and every other kind of thing you can >imagine. When I asked what it was the manager explained it was a sheep >herders bedroll that they were holding against room rent, when cold weather >came he would redeem it. > >John... > > >At 05:23 PM 11/12/03, you wrote: >>No problem if you have three mules. >>Don >> >>>Ole, >>> >>>What do you estimate the total weight to be of 1 Hudson bay, 1 Whitney, 2 >>>Barron 5 point blankets wrapped with canvas, together with the addition >>>of 3 >>>Hudson bay's and 1 Whitney as a ground pad wrapped with Russian sheeting? >>>Can you carry this or does it require some other means of transportation? >>>It will surely keep you warm and dry, but the bulk and weight seem >>>somewhat >>>intimidating in my view, and I would assume that this set-up is not for a >>>walk-in situation, or am I mistaken? >>> >>>Regards, >>> >>>Paul >>> >>> >>> > Don, >>> > For years I have used 1 hudson bay, 1 whitney, and 2 Barron 5 point >>> > blankets wraped with canvas. >>> > In the future I will use the same with the addition of 3 hudson bay's >>> > and 1 whitney as a ground pad wraped with russian sheating. >>> > Ole >>> > On Tuesday, November 11, 2003, at 07:00 PM, Phyllis and Don Keas >>>wrote: >>> > >>> > > Wool blankets have always done me very well. The coldest I have >>>slept >>> > > is 12 below and two Witneys. I did all right, but now I am older >>>and >>> > > plan on carrying three in the winter. Old age you know. Don >>> > > >>> > > On Monday, November 10, 2003 11:42 AM, roger lahti >>> > > <amm1719@charter.net> wrote: >>> > >> I got to agree with bb on bison robes being a pain if they get wet. >>> > >> But I >>> > >> suspect that, well I know my robe is warmer than an equivalent >>>weight >>> > >> of >>> > >> wool blanket. To make the blankets warm at all you still need some >>> > >> sort of >>> > >> air barrier like a canvas bed roll to cut the air movement by the >>> > >> blanket. >>> > >> The robe comes with it's own barrier but it's not water repellent >>>at >>> > >> all. >>> > >> Brain tan is very light though when done right with plenty of hide >>> > >> shaving >>> > >> to get it thin as possible. >>> > >> >>> > >> I still have good use for my wool blankets. >>> > >> >>> > >> Capt. Lahti >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>If it ain't exactly right, it's wrong. >>john <kramer@kramerize.com> >> >>Take a look at all the prime plunder being auctioned for the benefit of >>the American Mountain Men >>http://amm-auction.com/ > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html _________________________________________________________________ Great deals on high-speed Internet access as low as $26.95. https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.) ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dunc <duncanm@ihug.co.nz> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Cleaning a water bottle Date: 15 Nov 2003 22:22:03 +1300 >Ad Wrote >However, as has been said, I NEVER clean out my coffee pot. I forgot to rinse mine and left it with grounds in it in the basement for 7 months, the thing I found inside had a life of its own and proved harder to remove than a Beaver skin .BG Cheers Dunc ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ole Jensen <olebjensen@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bedding Date: 15 Nov 2003 08:07:19 -0700 John, Is this the first time we have agreed on something?. Thanks for the input, and you are right a hand cart looks better than a pick up truck. Ole On Friday, November 14, 2003, at 11:20 AM, John Kramer wrote: > > If you have three pack mules you have all the extra padding/bedding > you can use. Each animal has at least one saddle blanket (epishemore) > per animal. A saddle blanket is basically a folded blanket, thick > pads of felted hair are also common and useful. An epishemore is a > saddle blanket made from a buffalo robe. > > Add the above to your sleeping blankets and a tarp which covers a pack > during the day and you've got pretty comfy sleeping no matter the > weather. > > When I was on the trail I only had one pack animal plus my riding > horse the padding from just two critters made a very comfortable bed > along with my two blankets in very cold weather. Didn't have a > thermometer or radio along so I really can't say how cold. Some > nights a small fire warmed canvas, or a rock ledge, used as a > leanto/reflector. A large dog is a great comfort if you don't have a > Jill. > > My experience with hair-on hide has been less than wonderful. I've > never broken down and bought a brain tan buffalo robe so on that I > can't fairly comment. Lance Grabowski has cut up several for coats > and vests and such so at least one of us was brave enough. I would > think Crazy is right about it being too warm 363 days a year unless > you were a teamster or a drover on the windswept plains. > > I can comment on commercial tan buffalo, bear, elk, sheep and deer. I > have had excellent results with both real and faux braintan deer, elk > and moose leather. > > MOST hair-on commercial tan hides have not properly neutralized the > acids in the tanning process. Hence when used on the ground (or > stored on a closet shelf in Missouri) they will absorb water and rot. > The hollow hair of elk and deer never quits breaking, it never seems > to thin out but the constant hair everywhere becomes old fast, it will > even show up in your food. Hides are also heavy and more difficult to > pack than blankets. All are a pleasure under you at night. I've had > less rotting with commercial sheep than with deer, buffalo, elk and > bear. > > I have two Hudson Bays I bought in the mid '70's they have served well > many nights since. They are still warm and a part of my bedroll with > the luxurious hand-loomed blankets I now enjoy. Perhaps mine are > still warm and useful because they haven't been washed much. I do > hang them in the hot sun for a day and beat them with a carpet beater > every year or so. I have over a dozen blankets in my bedroll, I don't > take all of them all of the time. > > Do not let anyone tell you the European military cot blankets are > inferior they are smaller than a 4 point that's all, so were the > blankets traded during the period. I have purchased and used several > and find them to be of good quality, my winter leggings and some other > gear is made from them. For $10 to $20 each they are a great value. > > If you want to wrap up in canvas consider that A 300 thread count > Egyptian cotton sheet used in place of canvas breaks the wind as > efficiently with much less weight. > > When you lay out your bed if you are using a four point under you, > fold it lengthwise in quarters to increase warmth. A cot blanket is > better folded in thirds: because it is smaller. If you have two > blankets to place under you fold the first only lengthwise then fold > the second again in half. This way (with 4 point blankets) you have 4 > layers under your legs and feet and 12 layers under the trunk of your > body. Wrap up in your sleeping blankets and canvas and you'll stay > plenty warm. If you are wrapping canvas around you DO NOT use oil > cloth or you will be wet, wet equals cold; particularly in humid > areas. Canvas can often be used better as a reflector than as a wrap. > > It takes some bedding to stay comfortable in winter, survival can be > done with a lot less. We are (in most instances) no longer able to > practice old ways of woodcraft (bough beds and such) as it would > denude areas we must share with others. Because we can't cut what we > want every night it requires us to carry what we need. A toboggan is > one practical choice: without snow a wheelbarrow (like Buck Connor > uses) is another. Of course horses were the chosen method back then, > but then this is now. Dog sleds, sledges, travois, knapsacks, > primitive style packframe/chairs and many other quasi period methods > are available to a clever mind. Just remember none are accurate > portrayals they are expedients required because of time and > circumstance. A hand cart is as anachronistic as my Pickup; some seem > to think it looks better in camp. > > Ole has detailed what would be a practical and not uncommon bedroll of > the period, yes it is a lot of weight but much of it would have been > used first for other purposes. Mountain Men weren't backpackers, most > of the time. > > Many years ago I was inspecting an old hotel in an out of the way > location in Wyoming; down in storage there was a huge bundle of > canvas, blankets, quilts, comforters, sheep skins and every other kind > of thing you can imagine. When I asked what it was the manager > explained it was a sheep herders bedroll that they were holding > against room rent, when cold weather came he would redeem it. > > John... > > > At 05:23 PM 11/12/03, you wrote: >> No problem if you have three mules. >> Don >> >>> Ole, >>> >>> What do you estimate the total weight to be of 1 Hudson bay, 1 >>> Whitney, 2 >>> Barron 5 point blankets wrapped with canvas, together with the >>> addition of 3 >>> Hudson bay's and 1 Whitney as a ground pad wrapped with Russian >>> sheeting? >>> Can you carry this or does it require some other means of >>> transportation? >>> It will surely keep you warm and dry, but the bulk and weight seem >>> somewhat >>> intimidating in my view, and I would assume that this set-up is not >>> for a >>> walk-in situation, or am I mistaken? >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Paul >>> >>> >>> > Don, >>> > For years I have used 1 hudson bay, 1 whitney, and 2 Barron 5 point >>> > blankets wraped with canvas. >>> > In the future I will use the same with the addition of 3 hudson >>> bay's >>> > and 1 whitney as a ground pad wraped with russian sheating. >>> > Ole >>> > On Tuesday, November 11, 2003, at 07:00 PM, Phyllis and Don Keas >>> wrote: >>> > >>> > > Wool blankets have always done me very well. The coldest I have >>> slept >>> > > is 12 below and two Witneys. I did all right, but now I am >>> older and >>> > > plan on carrying three in the winter. Old age you know. Don >>> > > >>> > > On Monday, November 10, 2003 11:42 AM, roger lahti >>> > > <amm1719@charter.net> wrote: >>> > >> I got to agree with bb on bison robes being a pain if they get >>> wet. >>> > >> But I >>> > >> suspect that, well I know my robe is warmer than an equivalent >>> weight >>> > >> of >>> > >> wool blanket. To make the blankets warm at all you still need >>> some >>> > >> sort of >>> > >> air barrier like a canvas bed roll to cut the air movement by >>> the >>> > >> blanket. >>> > >> The robe comes with it's own barrier but it's not water >>> repellent at >>> > >> all. >>> > >> Brain tan is very light though when done right with plenty of >>> hide >>> > >> shaving >>> > >> to get it thin as possible. >>> > >> >>> > >> I still have good use for my wool blankets. >>> > >> >>> > >> Capt. Lahti >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >> If it ain't exactly right, it's wrong. >> john <kramer@kramerize.com> >> >> Take a look at all the prime plunder being auctioned for the benefit >> of the American Mountain Men >> http://amm-auction.com/ > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JOAQUINQS@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Egyptian cotton sheeting Date: 15 Nov 2003 10:13:10 EST --part1_117.2b8fd698.2ce79c86_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Egyptian Cotton sheeting can be obtained at most any department store. To name a few Bed Bath and Beyond, Linen and Things, JCPenney, Target and sometimes Walmart. Of coarse the higher the thread count the higher the price, just do some price checking and remember to get the flat sheet. Frank Sablan --part1_117.2b8fd698.2ce79c86_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE= =3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">Egyptian Cotton sheeting can be obtained at most any d= epartment store. To name a few Bed Bath and Beyond, Linen and Things,=20= JCPenney, Target and sometimes Walmart. Of coarse the higher the threa= d count the higher the price, just do some price checking and remember to ge= t the flat sheet.<BR> <BR> Frank Sablan</FONT></HTML> --part1_117.2b8fd698.2ce79c86_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sean Boushie" <flintlocknfur@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bedding Date: 15 Nov 2003 15:28:25 +0000 I remember reading a piece about it on crazy coyt's webpage. Can't remember exactly but I think it was either the Bon or Dillard's or some store such as that. Just a king size sheet with a high thread count per inch. >From: "don secondine" <dmdhsecondine@hotmail.com> >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bedding >Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 06:56:12 +0000 > >Good points and well taken. Where can a fellow get Egyptian cotton >sheeting? >Don Secondine > > >>From: John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com> >>Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >>To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bedding >>Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:20:24 -0600 >> >> >>If you have three pack mules you have all the extra padding/bedding you >>can use. Each animal has at least one saddle blanket (epishemore) per >>animal. A saddle blanket is basically a folded blanket, thick pads of >>felted hair are also common and useful. An epishemore is a saddle blanket >>made from a buffalo robe. >> >>Add the above to your sleeping blankets and a tarp which covers a pack >>during the day and you've got pretty comfy sleeping no matter the weather. >> >>When I was on the trail I only had one pack animal plus my riding horse >>the padding from just two critters made a very comfortable bed along with >>my two blankets in very cold weather. Didn't have a thermometer or radio >>along so I really can't say how cold. Some nights a small fire warmed >>canvas, or a rock ledge, used as a leanto/reflector. A large dog is a >>great comfort if you don't have a Jill. >> >>My experience with hair-on hide has been less than wonderful. I've never >>broken down and bought a brain tan buffalo robe so on that I can't fairly >>comment. Lance Grabowski has cut up several for coats and vests and such >>so at least one of us was brave enough. I would think Crazy is right >>about it being too warm 363 days a year unless you were a teamster or a >>drover on the windswept plains. >> >>I can comment on commercial tan buffalo, bear, elk, sheep and deer. I >>have had excellent results with both real and faux braintan deer, elk and >>moose leather. >> >>MOST hair-on commercial tan hides have not properly neutralized the acids >>in the tanning process. Hence when used on the ground (or stored on a >>closet shelf in Missouri) they will absorb water and rot. The hollow hair >>of elk and deer never quits breaking, it never seems to thin out but the >>constant hair everywhere becomes old fast, it will even show up in your >>food. Hides are also heavy and more difficult to pack than blankets. All >>are a pleasure under you at night. I've had less rotting with commercial >>sheep than with deer, buffalo, elk and bear. >> >>I have two Hudson Bays I bought in the mid '70's they have served well >>many nights since. They are still warm and a part of my bedroll with the >>luxurious hand-loomed blankets I now enjoy. Perhaps mine are still warm >>and useful because they haven't been washed much. I do hang them in the >>hot sun for a day and beat them with a carpet beater every year or so. I >>have over a dozen blankets in my bedroll, I don't take all of them all of >>the time. >> >>Do not let anyone tell you the European military cot blankets are inferior >>they are smaller than a 4 point that's all, so were the blankets traded >>during the period. I have purchased and used several and find them to be >>of good quality, my winter leggings and some other gear is made from them. >> For $10 to $20 each they are a great value. >> >>If you want to wrap up in canvas consider that A 300 thread count Egyptian >>cotton sheet used in place of canvas breaks the wind as efficiently with >>much less weight. >> >>When you lay out your bed if you are using a four point under you, fold it >>lengthwise in quarters to increase warmth. A cot blanket is better folded >>in thirds: because it is smaller. If you have two blankets to place under >>you fold the first only lengthwise then fold the second again in half. >>This way (with 4 point blankets) you have 4 layers under your legs and >>feet and 12 layers under the trunk of your body. Wrap up in your sleeping >>blankets and canvas and you'll stay plenty warm. If you are wrapping >>canvas around you DO NOT use oil cloth or you will be wet, wet equals >>cold; particularly in humid areas. Canvas can often be used better as a >>reflector than as a wrap. >> >>It takes some bedding to stay comfortable in winter, survival can be done >>with a lot less. We are (in most instances) no longer able to practice >>old ways of woodcraft (bough beds and such) as it would denude areas we >>must share with others. Because we can't cut what we want every night it >>requires us to carry what we need. A toboggan is one practical choice: >>without snow a wheelbarrow (like Buck Connor uses) is another. Of course >>horses were the chosen method back then, but then this is now. Dog sleds, >>sledges, travois, knapsacks, primitive style packframe/chairs and many >>other quasi period methods are available to a clever mind. Just remember >>none are accurate portrayals they are expedients required because of time >>and circumstance. A hand cart is as anachronistic as my Pickup; some seem >>to think it looks better in camp. >> >>Ole has detailed what would be a practical and not uncommon bedroll of the >>period, yes it is a lot of weight but much of it would have been used >>first for other purposes. Mountain Men weren't backpackers, most of the >>time. >> >>Many years ago I was inspecting an old hotel in an out of the way location >>in Wyoming; down in storage there was a huge bundle of canvas, blankets, >>quilts, comforters, sheep skins and every other kind of thing you can >>imagine. When I asked what it was the manager explained it was a sheep >>herders bedroll that they were holding against room rent, when cold >>weather came he would redeem it. >> >>John... >> >> >>At 05:23 PM 11/12/03, you wrote: >>>No problem if you have three mules. >>>Don >>> >>>>Ole, >>>> >>>>What do you estimate the total weight to be of 1 Hudson bay, 1 Whitney, >>>>2 >>>>Barron 5 point blankets wrapped with canvas, together with the addition >>>>of 3 >>>>Hudson bay's and 1 Whitney as a ground pad wrapped with Russian >>>>sheeting? >>>>Can you carry this or does it require some other means of >>>>transportation? >>>>It will surely keep you warm and dry, but the bulk and weight seem >>>>somewhat >>>>intimidating in my view, and I would assume that this set-up is not for >>>>a >>>>walk-in situation, or am I mistaken? >>>> >>>>Regards, >>>> >>>>Paul >>>> >>>> >>>> > Don, >>>> > For years I have used 1 hudson bay, 1 whitney, and 2 Barron 5 point >>>> > blankets wraped with canvas. >>>> > In the future I will use the same with the addition of 3 hudson bay's >>>> > and 1 whitney as a ground pad wraped with russian sheating. >>>> > Ole >>>> > On Tuesday, November 11, 2003, at 07:00 PM, Phyllis and Don Keas >>>>wrote: >>>> > >>>> > > Wool blankets have always done me very well. The coldest I have >>>>slept >>>> > > is 12 below and two Witneys. I did all right, but now I am older >>>>and >>>> > > plan on carrying three in the winter. Old age you know. Don >>>> > > >>>> > > On Monday, November 10, 2003 11:42 AM, roger lahti >>>> > > <amm1719@charter.net> wrote: >>>> > >> I got to agree with bb on bison robes being a pain if they get >>>>wet. >>>> > >> But I >>>> > >> suspect that, well I know my robe is warmer than an equivalent >>>>weight >>>> > >> of >>>> > >> wool blanket. To make the blankets warm at all you still need some >>>> > >> sort of >>>> > >> air barrier like a canvas bed roll to cut the air movement by the >>>> > >> blanket. >>>> > >> The robe comes with it's own barrier but it's not water repellent >>>>at >>>> > >> all. >>>> > >> Brain tan is very light though when done right with plenty of hide >>>> > >> shaving >>>> > >> to get it thin as possible. >>>> > >> >>>> > >> I still have good use for my wool blankets. >>>> > >> >>>> > >> Capt. Lahti >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >>> >>>If it ain't exactly right, it's wrong. >>>john <kramer@kramerize.com> >>> >>>Take a look at all the prime plunder being auctioned for the benefit of >>>the American Mountain Men >>>http://amm-auction.com/ >> >> >>---------------------- >>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > >_________________________________________________________________ >Great deals on high-speed Internet access as low as $26.95. >https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.) > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html _________________________________________________________________ From Beethoven to the Rolling Stones, your favorite music is always playing on MSN Radio Plus. No ads, no talk. Trial month FREE! http://join.msn.com/?page=offers/premiumradio ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randal Bublitz" <rjbublitz@earthlink.net> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Bedding Date: 15 Nov 2003 08:30:14 -0800 bb, everytime I return from an outing I hang my buff robe over a clothesline and work it over good with a tennis racket (both sides). this knocks out the dust and brings specks of 'stuff' to the surface where it can picked off by hand. The robe is shiny and new looking after several years. yfab, hardtack > [Original Message] > From: <beaverboy@sofast.net> > To: <hist_text@xmission.com> > Date: 11/14/03 10:37:45 PM > Subject: MtMan-List: Bedding > > Dear List, > I have another question, How do you guys clean your bison robes? I > ended up hanging mine on the fence and using a pet shampoo and garden > hose to do the job by hand. Then let it hang in the sun to dry. Came > out smelling pretty. > bb > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randal Bublitz" <rjbublitz@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bedding Date: 15 Nov 2003 08:33:33 -0800 Where can a fellow get Egyptian cotton sheeting?.... I got mine from a place called 'Linens and Things', a chain store that sells bedding, towels and such. I got a great deal on Egyptian Cotton Bed Sheets. yfab, hardtack ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "don secondine" <dmdhsecondine@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Egyptian cotton sheeting Date: 15 Nov 2003 17:00:26 +0000 Thank ye kindly. I thought it was something hard to get. I had never heard of it except in a trekking or rendezvous situation. Thanks again, Don Secondine >From: JOAQUINQS@aol.com >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: MtMan-List: Egyptian cotton sheeting >Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 10:13:10 EST > >Egyptian Cotton sheeting can be obtained at most any department store. To >name a few Bed Bath and Beyond, Linen and Things, JCPenney, Target and >sometimes >Walmart. Of coarse the higher the thread count the higher the price, just >do >some price checking and remember to get the flat sheet. > >Frank Sablan _________________________________________________________________ Frustrated with dial-up? Get high-speed for as low as $26.95. https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.) ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Paul Jones" <pwjones@myexcel.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Jed Smith's manifest Date: 15 Nov 2003 19:51:07 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C3ABB1.CF6B9080 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thought this would be of interest. Paul ------- Following are translations from Spanish to English of Samuel Parkman's = list of trade goods as submitted to customs officials and the letter = from Santiago Abreu to Agust=EDn Dur=E1n regarding goods being cached by = Parkman on the Ocate River:=20 ------- The Manifest of Jedediah Smith's Trade Goods Manifest that the citizen of the United States of America, Samuel = Par[k]man, agent of citizen Jeradiah[sic] S. Smith, deceased, presents = to the National Customs of the Territory of New Mexico of the effects = that he brought from the said States, whose brands and quantities are as = follows:=20 Chest No. 1: 1 dozen small saws=20 8 large saws=20 2 dozen chisels=20 2 gross small augers=20 6 dozen panes of window glass=20 2 dozen scutcheons=20 2 dozen brass nails for curtains=20 10 gross small screws=20 6 packages iron tacks=20 2 dozen pen knives=20 1 dozen pocket razors=20 3 dozen pen knives=20 3 dozen pocket knives=20 1 dozen shaving razors=20 3 dozen shaving razors=20 2 dozen butcher knives=20 4 dozen table knives=20 7 dozen table knives=20 3 dozen butcher knives=20 4 dozen butcher knives=20 3 dozen butcher knives=20 2 dozen green razor handles=20 3 dozen white razor handles=20 2 dozen pocket razors=20 2 gross thimbles=20 2,000 needles=20 130 large needles=20 1 dozen scissors=20 3 3/4 dozen scissors=20 2 gross small spoons=20 7 small augers=20 8 large augers=20 3 dozen bone buttons=20 4 gross marble buttons=20 2 gross glass buttons=20 1 gross shell buttons=20 1 gross coat buttons=20 2 gross waistcoat buttons=20 1 dozen small files=20 1 dozen large files=20 1 dozen large files, half hollowed=20 1 dozen rasps=20 3 dozen large scutcheons=20 3 dozens small scutcheons=20 Chest No. 2: 2 dozen small saws=20 1 dozen large chisels=20 1 dozen small chisels=20 2 gross small augers=20 2 dozen brass nails, 6 inches=20 1 dozen brass nails, 3 inches=20 1/2 dozen brass nails, 3 1/2 inches=20 1 dozen carbine keys=20 8 gross small screws=20 2 packages iron tacks=20 4 packages iron tacks=20 1 dozen table knives=20 14 dozen butcher knives=20 12 dozen pocket razors=20 6 dozen knives and forks=20 4 dozen pen knives=20 2 gross thimbles=20 2 1/2 thousand needles=20 12 thousand large needles=20 1 dozen scissors=20 4 gross small spoons=20 1/2 gross table spoons=20 20 large augers=20 3 dozen bone buttons=20 5 gross marble buttons=20 2 dozen glass buttons=20 1 dozen shell buttons=20 1 dozen shell buttons for shirt=20 1 dozen yellow buttons=20 1 dozen common buttons=20 1 dozen buttons for waistcoat=20 1 dozen small files=20 2 dozen large files=20 1 dozen rasps, half hollowed=20 6 dozen large scutcheons=20 4 dozen trunk scutcheons=20 Trunk No. 3: 36 cotton handkerchiefs=20 3 pieces cotton handkerchiefs=20 5 pieces silk handkerchiefs=20 10 dozen cotton handkerchiefs=20 3 pieces silk handkerchiefs with 21 yards=20 12 short Sicilian silk tunics=20 8 pieces Indian silk handkerchiefs=20 3 carrandan short tunics=20 6 merino wool shawls=20 10 colored girl's merino wool shawls=20 7 red girl's merino wool shawl=20 6 scarlet wool shawls=20 3 pieces twill, with 36 yards=20 3 pieces white handkerchiefs for the purse=20 2 pieces yellow carrrandan with 56 yards=20 1 piece striped carrandan with 18 yards=20 2 piece vestings with 24 yards=20 2 pieces striped batiste with 24 yards=20 4 pieces indigo florentine with 76 yards=20 Chest No. 4: 3 pieces cotton handkerchiefs with 39=20 3 pieces bandanna handkerchiefs, 21 yards=20 10 pieces cotton handkerchiefs with 132 yards=20 148 pieces Indian silk handkerchief, 98 yards=20 3 short carrandan tunics=20 6 girl's merino wool shawls=20 10 colored merino wool shawls=20 7 red merino wool shawls=20 3 pieces twill, with 36 yards=20 3 pieces cotton handkerchiefs with 40 yards=20 3 pieces carrandan with 34 yards=20 1 piece striped carrandan with 18 yards=20 3 pieces vestings with 19 yards=20 Trunk No. 23: 8 pieces small striped cloth with 291 yards=20 4 pieces small cotton printed cloth with 131 yards=20 Chest No. 28: 10 pieces yellow nankin=20 25 pieces blue nankin=20 1 dozen handkerchiefs=20 6 shawls=20 8 Mandarin shawls=20 3 packages pins=20 3 pieces chintz for curtains with 84 yards=20 4 pieces belfa with 100 yards=20 Trunk No. 41: 20 pieces linen with 636 yards=20 Chest No. 48: 20 pieces linen with 630 yards=20 Chest No. 71: 20 pieces blanket with 567 yards=20 Chest No. 72: 20 pieces blanket with 569 yards=20 Chest No. 86: 20 pieces linen with 606 yards=20 Unnumbered chest: 1 dozen large mirrors=20 Chest No. 121: 1 set of blank account books, a small quantity of writing paper, and a = small quantity of wrapping paper, all for expense=20 Barrel No. 129: 15 dozen china plates=20 32 dozen china cups=20 4 sets of china with 33 pieces each=20 4 dozen chocolate cups=20 6 dozen mugs=20 2 dozen chocolate cups=20 Chest No. 141: 3 pieces escalarata with 51 yards=20 1 piece scarlet flannel with 36 yards=20 1 piece yellow flannel with 32 yards=20 1 piece green flannel with 29 yards=20 3 pieces white flannel with 57 yards=20 1 piece blue cloth with 16 yards=20 1 piece black percale with 28 yards=20 2 pieces Irish linen, with 44 yards=20 Chest No. 42: 3 pieces scarlet cloth with 46 yards=20 2 pieces yellow flannel, 47 yards=20 1 piece green flannel, 27 yards=20 2 pieces black percale, 56 yards=20 1 dozen umbrellas=20 Chest No. 144: 1 piece high quality blue cloth, 24 yards=20 1 piece blue cloth, 14 yards=20 1 piece brown cloth, 22 yards=20 1 piece blue cloth, 32 yards=20 1 piece black cloth, 23 yards=20 1 piece black percale, 36 yards=20 2 pieces blue and brown bombazine=20 4 pieces decorated bombazine=20 1 dozen umbrellas=20 Chest No. 145: 1 piece olive-colored cloth, 17 yards=20 1 piece blue cloth, 15 yards=20 1 piece black cloth, 21 yards=20 1 piece blue cloth, 17 yards=20 2 pieces black cloth, 56 yards=20 1 piece blue cloth, 22 yards=20 1 piece violet cloth, 24 yards=20 1 piece green cloth, 31 yards=20 4 pieces black percale, 112 yards=20 2 pieces violet bombazine=20 1 dozen umbrellas=20 20 pieces Irish linen, 426 yards=20 Chest No. 147: 2 pieces tacking, 48 yards=20 5 pieces tacking, 115 yards=20 20 pieces linen, 560 yards=20 12 pieces chintz, 333 yards=20 Chest No. 148: 13 pieces tacking, 307 yards=20 2 pieces small brown cotton printed cloth, 44 yards=20 5 pieces chintz, 141 yards=20 Trunk No. 151: 9 pieces chintz with 253 yards=20 7 pieces calico, 195 yards=20 Trunk No. 152: 21 pieces of linen, 589 yards=20 3 pieces blanket, 84 yards=20 Chest No. 153: 2 pieces narrow lace with 32 yards=20 6 pieces wide ribbon=20 6 pieces wide ribbon=20 12 dozen shawls with fringes=20 5 dozen shawls with fringes=20 1 dozen cheap short tunics=20 1 dozen shawls with silk fringes=20 6 silk embossed handkerchiefs=20 6 dozen ribbons for sashes=20 2 dozen handkerchief holders=20 13 cotton shawls=20 8 pieces muslin with 80 yards=20 Chest No. 154: 2 pieces narrow lace, 32 yards=20 9 fancy silk handkerchiefs=20 2 dozen cotton handkerchiefs=20 12 dozen cotton handkerchiefs=20 2 dozen floral handkerchiefs=20 6 fancy handkerchiefs=20 1 dozen decorated silk shawls=20 4 cheap short tunics=20 6 mixed shawls=20 1 dozen large handkerchiefs with fringes=20 Chest No. 79: 36 pieces linen with 992 yards=20 Trunk No. 155: 19 pieces linen with 632 yards=20 Trunk No. 156: 5 pieces small striped cloth, 140 yards=20 5 pieces chintz, 420 yards=20 Trunk No. 157: 14 pieces damask cotton, 252 yards=20 Chest No. 605: Various notebooks for use of the store, that I intend to open in the = same customs house=20 Chest No. 19: 27 cotton shawls=20 18 cotton shawls=20 9 merino wool shawls=20 4 bandanna handkerchiefs with 28 yards=20 1 dozen orange cotton shawls=20 1 dozen orange cotton shawls=20 10 merino wool shawls=20 2 pieces decorated twill, 24 yards=20 4 pieces chintz, 112 yards=20 2 pieces calico, 56 yards=20 Trunk No. 21: 16 pieces blanket, 498 yards=20 Chest No. 33: 20 pieces linen, 700 yards=20 Chest No. 42: 20 pieces linen, 655 yards=20 Chest No. 44: 20 pieces linen, 656 yards=20 Chest No. 47: 20 pieces linen, 657 yards=20 Chest No. 58: 20 pieces linen, 707 yards=20 Trunk No. 62: 20 pieces blankets, 632 yards=20 Trunk No. 64: 20 pieces blankets, 622 yards=20 Trunk No. 65: 20 pieces blankets, 623 yards=20 Trunk No. 66: 20 pieces blankets, 612 yards=20 Trunk No. 67: 20 pieces blankets, 625 yards=20 Trunk No. 69: 20 pieces blankets, 632 yards=20 Trunk No. 70: 20 pieces blankets, 625 yards=20 Chest No. 77: 20 pieces linen, 822 yards=20 Chest No. 78: 20 pieces linen, 983 yards=20 Chest No. 81: 20 pieces linen, 630 yards=20 Chest No. 85: 20 pieces linen, 702 yards=20 Chest No. 38: 20 pieces linen, 701 yards=20 Chest No. 45: 20 pieces linen, 656 yards=20 ------- In testimony of the truth, I sign in Santa Fe, July 11, 1831.=20 [SIGNED] Samuele Parkman=20 ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C3ABB1.CF6B9080 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1276" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3D2>Thought this would be of=20 interest.</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3D2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3D2>Paul</FONT></STRONG><STRONG></DIV> <DIV> <HR> Following are translations from Spanish to English of Samuel Parkman's = list of=20 trade goods as submitted to customs officials and the letter from = Santiago Abreu=20 to Agust=EDn Dur=E1n regarding goods being cached by Parkman on the = Ocate River:=20 <HR> <CENTER> <H1>The Manifest of Jedediah Smith's Trade Goods</H1></CENTER> <P>Manifest that the citizen of the United States of America, Samuel = Par[k]man,=20 agent of citizen Jeradiah[sic] S. Smith, deceased, presents to the = National=20 Customs of the Territory of New Mexico of the effects that he brought = from the=20 said States, whose brands and quantities are as follows:=20 <H4>Chest No. 1:</H4><BR>1 dozen small saws <BR>8 large saws <BR>2 dozen = chisels=20 <BR>2 gross small augers <BR>6 dozen panes of window glass <BR>2 dozen=20 scutcheons <BR>2 dozen brass nails for curtains <BR>10 gross small = screws <BR>6=20 packages iron tacks <BR>2 dozen pen knives <BR>1 dozen pocket razors = <BR>3 dozen=20 pen knives <BR>3 dozen pocket knives <BR>1 dozen shaving razors <BR>3 = dozen=20 shaving razors <BR>2 dozen butcher knives <BR>4 dozen table knives <BR>7 = dozen=20 table knives <BR>3 dozen butcher knives <BR>4 dozen butcher knives <BR>3 = dozen=20 butcher knives <BR>2 dozen green razor handles <BR>3 dozen white razor = handles=20 <BR>2 dozen pocket razors <BR>2 gross thimbles <BR>2,000 needles <BR>130 = large=20 needles <BR>1 dozen scissors <BR>3 3/4 dozen scissors <BR>2 gross small = spoons=20 <BR>7 small augers <BR>8 large augers <BR>3 dozen bone buttons <BR>4 = gross=20 marble buttons <BR>2 gross glass buttons <BR>1 gross shell buttons <BR>1 = gross=20 coat buttons <BR>2 gross waistcoat buttons <BR>1 dozen small files <BR>1 = dozen=20 large files <BR>1 dozen large files, half hollowed <BR>1 dozen rasps = <BR>3 dozen=20 large scutcheons <BR>3 dozens small scutcheons=20 <H4>Chest No. 2:</H4><BR>2 dozen small saws <BR>1 dozen large chisels = <BR>1=20 dozen small chisels <BR>2 gross small augers <BR>2 dozen brass nails, 6 = inches=20 <BR>1 dozen brass nails, 3 inches <BR>1/2 dozen brass nails, 3 1/2 = inches <BR>1=20 dozen carbine keys <BR>8 gross small screws <BR>2 packages iron tacks = <BR>4=20 packages iron tacks <BR>1 dozen table knives <BR>14 dozen butcher knives = <BR>12=20 dozen pocket razors <BR>6 dozen knives and forks <BR>4 dozen pen knives = <BR>2=20 gross thimbles <BR>2 1/2 thousand needles <BR>12 thousand large needles = <BR>1=20 dozen scissors <BR>4 gross small spoons <BR>1/2 gross table spoons = <BR>20 large=20 augers <BR>3 dozen bone buttons <BR>5 gross marble buttons <BR>2 dozen = glass=20 buttons <BR>1 dozen shell buttons <BR>1 dozen shell buttons for shirt = <BR>1=20 dozen yellow buttons <BR>1 dozen common buttons <BR>1 dozen buttons for=20 waistcoat <BR>1 dozen small files <BR>2 dozen large files <BR>1 dozen = rasps,=20 half hollowed <BR>6 dozen large scutcheons <BR>4 dozen trunk scutcheons=20 <H4>Trunk No. 3:</H4><BR>36 cotton handkerchiefs <BR>3 pieces cotton=20 handkerchiefs <BR>5 pieces silk handkerchiefs <BR>10 dozen cotton = handkerchiefs=20 <BR>3 pieces silk handkerchiefs with 21 yards <BR>12 short Sicilian silk = tunics=20 <BR>8 pieces Indian silk handkerchiefs <BR>3 carrandan short tunics = <BR>6 merino=20 wool shawls <BR>10 colored girl's merino wool shawls <BR>7 red girl's = merino=20 wool shawl <BR>6 scarlet wool shawls <BR>3 pieces twill, with 36 yards = <BR>3=20 pieces white handkerchiefs for the purse <BR>2 pieces yellow carrrandan = with 56=20 yards <BR>1 piece striped carrandan with 18 yards <BR>2 piece vestings = with 24=20 yards <BR>2 pieces striped batiste with 24 yards <BR>4 pieces indigo = florentine=20 with 76 yards=20 <H4>Chest No. 4:</H4><BR>3 pieces cotton handkerchiefs with 39 <BR>3 = pieces=20 bandanna handkerchiefs, 21 yards <BR>10 pieces cotton handkerchiefs with = 132=20 yards <BR>148 pieces Indian silk handkerchief, 98 yards <BR>3 short = carrandan=20 tunics <BR>6 girl's merino wool shawls <BR>10 colored merino wool shawls = <BR>7=20 red merino wool shawls <BR>3 pieces twill, with 36 yards <BR>3 pieces = cotton=20 handkerchiefs with 40 yards <BR>3 pieces carrandan with 34 yards <BR>1 = piece=20 striped carrandan with 18 yards <BR>3 pieces vestings with 19 yards=20 <H4>Trunk No. 23:</H4><BR>8 pieces small striped cloth with 291 yards = <BR>4=20 pieces small cotton printed cloth with 131 yards=20 <H4>Chest No. 28:</H4><BR>10 pieces yellow nankin <BR>25 pieces blue = nankin=20 <BR>1 dozen handkerchiefs <BR>6 shawls <BR>8 Mandarin shawls <BR>3 = packages pins=20 <BR>3 pieces chintz for curtains with 84 yards <BR>4 pieces belfa with = 100 yards=20 <H4>Trunk No. 41:</H4><BR>20 pieces linen with 636 yards=20 <H4>Chest No. 48:</H4><BR>20 pieces linen with 630 yards=20 <H4>Chest No. 71:</H4><BR>20 pieces blanket with 567 yards=20 <H4>Chest No. 72:</H4><BR>20 pieces blanket with 569 yards=20 <H4>Chest No. 86:</H4><BR>20 pieces linen with 606 yards=20 <H4>Unnumbered chest:</H4><BR>1 dozen large mirrors=20 <H4>Chest No. 121:</H4><BR>1 set of blank account books, a small = quantity of=20 writing paper, and a small quantity of wrapping paper, all for expense=20 <H4>Barrel No. 129:</H4><BR>15 dozen china plates <BR>32 dozen china = cups <BR>4=20 sets of china with 33 pieces each <BR>4 dozen chocolate cups <BR>6 dozen = mugs=20 <BR>2 dozen chocolate cups=20 <H4>Chest No. 141:</H4><BR>3 pieces escalarata with 51 yards <BR>1 piece = scarlet=20 flannel with 36 yards <BR>1 piece yellow flannel with 32 yards <BR>1 = piece green=20 flannel with 29 yards <BR>3 pieces white flannel with 57 yards <BR>1 = piece blue=20 cloth with 16 yards <BR>1 piece black percale with 28 yards <BR>2 pieces = Irish=20 linen, with 44 yards=20 <H4>Chest No. 42:</H4><BR>3 pieces scarlet cloth with 46 yards <BR>2 = pieces=20 yellow flannel, 47 yards <BR>1 piece green flannel, 27 yards <BR>2 = pieces black=20 percale, 56 yards <BR>1 dozen umbrellas=20 <H4>Chest No. 144:</H4><BR>1 piece high quality blue cloth, 24 yards = <BR>1 piece=20 blue cloth, 14 yards <BR>1 piece brown cloth, 22 yards <BR>1 piece blue = cloth,=20 32 yards <BR>1 piece black cloth, 23 yards <BR>1 piece black percale, 36 = yards=20 <BR>2 pieces blue and brown bombazine <BR>4 pieces decorated bombazine = <BR>1=20 dozen umbrellas=20 <H4>Chest No. 145:</H4><BR>1 piece olive-colored cloth, 17 yards <BR>1 = piece=20 blue cloth, 15 yards <BR>1 piece black cloth, 21 yards <BR>1 piece blue = cloth,=20 17 yards <BR>2 pieces black cloth, 56 yards <BR>1 piece blue cloth, 22 = yards=20 <BR>1 piece violet cloth, 24 yards <BR>1 piece green cloth, 31 yards = <BR>4=20 pieces black percale, 112 yards <BR>2 pieces violet bombazine <BR>1 = dozen=20 umbrellas <BR>20 pieces Irish linen, 426 yards=20 <H4>Chest No. 147:</H4><BR>2 pieces tacking, 48 yards <BR>5 pieces = tacking, 115=20 yards <BR>20 pieces linen, 560 yards <BR>12 pieces chintz, 333 yards=20 <H4>Chest No. 148:</H4><BR>13 pieces tacking, 307 yards <BR>2 pieces = small brown=20 cotton printed cloth, 44 yards <BR>5 pieces chintz, 141 yards=20 <H4>Trunk No. 151:</H4><BR>9 pieces chintz with 253 yards <BR>7 pieces = calico,=20 195 yards=20 <H4>Trunk No. 152:</H4><BR>21 pieces of linen, 589 yards <BR>3 pieces = blanket,=20 84 yards=20 <H4>Chest No. 153:</H4><BR>2 pieces narrow lace with 32 yards <BR>6 = pieces wide=20 ribbon <BR>6 pieces wide ribbon <BR>12 dozen shawls with fringes <BR>5 = dozen=20 shawls with fringes <BR>1 dozen cheap short tunics <BR>1 dozen shawls = with silk=20 fringes <BR>6 silk embossed handkerchiefs <BR>6 dozen ribbons for sashes = <BR>2=20 dozen handkerchief holders <BR>13 cotton shawls <BR>8 pieces muslin with = 80=20 yards=20 <H4>Chest No. 154:</H4><BR>2 pieces narrow lace, 32 yards <BR>9 fancy = silk=20 handkerchiefs <BR>2 dozen cotton handkerchiefs <BR>12 dozen cotton = handkerchiefs=20 <BR>2 dozen floral handkerchiefs <BR>6 fancy handkerchiefs <BR>1 dozen = decorated=20 silk shawls <BR>4 cheap short tunics <BR>6 mixed shawls <BR>1 dozen = large=20 handkerchiefs with fringes=20 <H4>Chest No. 79:</H4><BR>36 pieces linen with 992 yards=20 <H4>Trunk No. 155:</H4><BR>19 pieces linen with 632 yards=20 <H4>Trunk No. 156:</H4><BR>5 pieces small striped cloth, 140 yards <BR>5 = pieces=20 chintz, 420 yards=20 <H4>Trunk No. 157:</H4><BR>14 pieces damask cotton, 252 yards=20 <H4>Chest No. 605:</H4><BR>Various notebooks for use of the store, that = I intend=20 to open in the same customs house=20 <H4>Chest No. 19:</H4><BR>27 cotton shawls <BR>18 cotton shawls <BR>9 = merino=20 wool shawls <BR>4 bandanna handkerchiefs with 28 yards <BR>1 dozen = orange cotton=20 shawls <BR>1 dozen orange cotton shawls <BR>10 merino wool shawls <BR>2 = pieces=20 decorated twill, 24 yards <BR>4 pieces chintz, 112 yards <BR>2 pieces = calico, 56=20 yards=20 <H4>Trunk No. 21:</H4><BR>16 pieces blanket, 498 yards=20 <H4>Chest No. 33:</H4><BR>20 pieces linen, 700 yards=20 <H4>Chest No. 42:</H4><BR>20 pieces linen, 655 yards=20 <H4>Chest No. 44:</H4><BR>20 pieces linen, 656 yards=20 <H4>Chest No. 47:</H4><BR>20 pieces linen, 657 yards=20 <H4>Chest No. 58:</H4><BR>20 pieces linen, 707 yards=20 <H4>Trunk No. 62:</H4><BR>20 pieces blankets, 632 yards=20 <H4>Trunk No. 64:</H4><BR>20 pieces blankets, 622 yards=20 <H4>Trunk No. 65:</H4><BR>20 pieces blankets, 623 yards=20 <H4>Trunk No. 66:</H4><BR>20 pieces blankets, 612 yards=20 <H4>Trunk No. 67:</H4><BR>20 pieces blankets, 625 yards=20 <H4>Trunk No. 69:</H4><BR>20 pieces blankets, 632 yards=20 <H4>Trunk No. 70:</H4><BR>20 pieces blankets, 625 yards=20 <H4>Chest No. 77:</H4><BR>20 pieces linen, 822 yards=20 <H4>Chest No. 78:</H4><BR>20 pieces linen, 983 yards=20 <H4>Chest No. 81:</H4><BR>20 pieces linen, 630 yards=20 <H4>Chest No. 85:</H4><BR>20 pieces linen, 702 yards=20 <H4>Chest No. 38:</H4><BR>20 pieces linen, 701 yards=20 <H4>Chest No. 45:</H4><BR>20 pieces linen, 656 yards=20 <HR> <P>In testimony of the truth, I sign in Santa Fe, July 11, 1831. = <BR>[SIGNED]=20 Samuele Parkman </P></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C3ABB1.CF6B9080-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Paul Jones" <pwjones@myexcel.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Re: AMM-List: Jed Smith's manifest Date: 15 Nov 2003 20:08:13 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01C3ABB4.3310AE20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This was forwarded by a friend, and it just dawned on me that it may be = taken from Dean Rudy's fine site. If so, I apologize for burdening the = list with the information. Paul ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Paul Jones=20 To: ammlist@lists.xmission.com=20 Cc: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2003 7:51 PM Subject: AMM-List: Jed Smith's manifest Thought this would be of interest. Paul ----- Following are translations from Spanish to English of Samuel Parkman's = list of trade goods as submitted to customs officials and the letter = from Santiago Abreu to Agust=EDn Dur=E1n regarding goods being cached by = Parkman on the Ocate River:=20 ----- ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01C3ABB4.3310AE20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1276" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3D2>This was forwarded by a friend, and it just = dawned on=20 me that it may be taken from Dean Rudy's fine site. If so, I = apologize for=20 burdening the list with the information.</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3D2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3D2>Paul</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Dpwjones@myexcel.com = href=3D"mailto:pwjones@myexcel.com">Paul Jones</A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3Dammlist@lists.xmission.com=20 = href=3D"mailto:ammlist@lists.xmission.com">ammlist@lists.xmission.com</A>= </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A = title=3Dhist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 = href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com= </A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, November 15, = 2003 7:51=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> AMM-List: Jed Smith's=20 manifest</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3D2>Thought this would be of=20 interest.</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3D2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3D2>Paul</FONT></STRONG><STRONG></DIV> <DIV> <HR> Following are translations from Spanish to English of Samuel Parkman's = list of=20 trade goods as submitted to customs officials and the letter from = Santiago=20 Abreu to Agust=EDn Dur=E1n regarding goods being cached by Parkman on = the Ocate=20 River:=20 <HR> <CENTER> <H1> </H1></CENTER></STRONG></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01C3ABB4.3310AE20-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: amm1616@comcast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Jed Smith's manifest Date: 16 Nov 2003 02:12:01 +0000 Paul, Nice list, where did you find it? mike. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James and Sue Stone <jandsstone@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Jed Smith's manifest Date: 15 Nov 2003 19:53:21 -0700 --------------090206010806090305090900 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit It is intersting indeed. I didn't read the entire list, but check out the thousands of yards of material he carried with him (contents of trunk 80 +and -)! As anyone knows who has packed bulky heavy things around much, he had obviously been fetching lots and lots of profit or he would have left some of that at the dock rather than pack it all the way to Santa Fe! Sparks Paul Jones wrote: > Thought this would be of interest. > > Paul > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Following are translations from Spanish to English of Samuel Parkman's > list of trade goods as submitted to customs officials and the letter > from Santiago Abreu to Agustφn Durßn regarding goods being cached by > Parkman on the Ocate River: > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > The Manifest of Jedediah Smith's Trade Goods > > Manifest that the citizen of the United States of America, Samuel > Par[k]man, agent of citizen Jeradiah[sic] S. Smith, deceased, presents > to the National Customs of the Territory of New Mexico of the effects > that he brought from the said States, whose brands and quantities are > as follows: > > > Chest No. 1: > > > 1 dozen small saws > 8 large saws > 2 dozen chisels > 2 gross small augers > 6 dozen panes of window glass > 2 dozen scutcheons > 2 dozen brass nails for curtains > 10 gross small screws > 6 packages iron tacks > 2 dozen pen knives > 1 dozen pocket razors > 3 dozen pen knives > 3 dozen pocket knives > 1 dozen shaving razors > 3 dozen shaving razors > 2 dozen butcher knives > 4 dozen table knives > 7 dozen table knives > 3 dozen butcher knives > 4 dozen butcher knives > 3 dozen butcher knives > 2 dozen green razor handles > 3 dozen white razor handles > 2 dozen pocket razors > 2 gross thimbles > 2,000 needles > 130 large needles > 1 dozen scissors > 3 3/4 dozen scissors > 2 gross small spoons > 7 small augers > 8 large augers > 3 dozen bone buttons > 4 gross marble buttons > 2 gross glass buttons > 1 gross shell buttons > 1 gross coat buttons > 2 gross waistcoat buttons > 1 dozen small files > 1 dozen large files > 1 dozen large files, half hollowed > 1 dozen rasps > 3 dozen large scutcheons > 3 dozens small scutcheons > > > Chest No. 2: > > > 2 dozen small saws > 1 dozen large chisels > 1 dozen small chisels > 2 gross small augers > 2 dozen brass nails, 6 inches > 1 dozen brass nails, 3 inches > 1/2 dozen brass nails, 3 1/2 inches > 1 dozen carbine keys > 8 gross small screws > 2 packages iron tacks > 4 packages iron tacks > 1 dozen table knives > 14 dozen butcher knives > 12 dozen pocket razors > 6 dozen knives and forks > 4 dozen pen knives > 2 gross thimbles > 2 1/2 thousand needles > 12 thousand large needles > 1 dozen scissors > 4 gross small spoons > 1/2 gross table spoons > 20 large augers > 3 dozen bone buttons > 5 gross marble buttons > 2 dozen glass buttons > 1 dozen shell buttons > 1 dozen shell buttons for shirt > 1 dozen yellow buttons > 1 dozen common buttons > 1 dozen buttons for waistcoat > 1 dozen small files > 2 dozen large files > 1 dozen rasps, half hollowed > 6 dozen large scutcheons > 4 dozen trunk scutcheons > > > Trunk No. 3: > > > 36 cotton handkerchiefs > 3 pieces cotton handkerchiefs > 5 pieces silk handkerchiefs > 10 dozen cotton handkerchiefs > 3 pieces silk handkerchiefs with 21 yards > 12 short Sicilian silk tunics > 8 pieces Indian silk handkerchiefs > 3 carrandan short tunics > 6 merino wool shawls > 10 colored girl's merino wool shawls > 7 red girl's merino wool shawl > 6 scarlet wool shawls > 3 pieces twill, with 36 yards > 3 pieces white handkerchiefs for the purse > 2 pieces yellow carrrandan with 56 yards > 1 piece striped carrandan with 18 yards > 2 piece vestings with 24 yards > 2 pieces striped batiste with 24 yards > 4 pieces indigo florentine with 76 yards > > > Chest No. 4: > > > 3 pieces cotton handkerchiefs with 39 > 3 pieces bandanna handkerchiefs, 21 yards > 10 pieces cotton handkerchiefs with 132 yards > 148 pieces Indian silk handkerchief, 98 yards > 3 short carrandan tunics > 6 girl's merino wool shawls > 10 colored merino wool shawls > 7 red merino wool shawls > 3 pieces twill, with 36 yards > 3 pieces cotton handkerchiefs with 40 yards > 3 pieces carrandan with 34 yards > 1 piece striped carrandan with 18 yards > 3 pieces vestings with 19 yards > > > Trunk No. 23: > > > 8 pieces small striped cloth with 291 yards > 4 pieces small cotton printed cloth with 131 yards > > > Chest No. 28: > > > 10 pieces yellow nankin > 25 pieces blue nankin > 1 dozen handkerchiefs > 6 shawls > 8 Mandarin shawls > 3 packages pins > 3 pieces chintz for curtains with 84 yards > 4 pieces belfa with 100 yards > > > Trunk No. 41: > > > 20 pieces linen with 636 yards > > > Chest No. 48: > > > 20 pieces linen with 630 yards > > > Chest No. 71: > > > 20 pieces blanket with 567 yards > > > Chest No. 72: > > > 20 pieces blanket with 569 yards > > > Chest No. 86: > > > 20 pieces linen with 606 yards > > > Unnumbered chest: > > > 1 dozen large mirrors > > > Chest No. 121: > > > 1 set of blank account books, a small quantity of writing paper, and a > small quantity of wrapping paper, all for expense > > > Barrel No. 129: > > > 15 dozen china plates > 32 dozen china cups > 4 sets of china with 33 pieces each > 4 dozen chocolate cups > 6 dozen mugs > 2 dozen chocolate cups > > > Chest No. 141: > > > 3 pieces escalarata with 51 yards > 1 piece scarlet flannel with 36 yards > 1 piece yellow flannel with 32 yards > 1 piece green flannel with 29 yards > 3 pieces white flannel with 57 yards > 1 piece blue cloth with 16 yards > 1 piece black percale with 28 yards > 2 pieces Irish linen, with 44 yards > > > Chest No. 42: > > > 3 pieces scarlet cloth with 46 yards > 2 pieces yellow flannel, 47 yards > 1 piece green flannel, 27 yards > 2 pieces black percale, 56 yards > 1 dozen umbrellas > > > Chest No. 144: > > > 1 piece high quality blue cloth, 24 yards > 1 piece blue cloth, 14 yards > 1 piece brown cloth, 22 yards > 1 piece blue cloth, 32 yards > 1 piece black cloth, 23 yards > 1 piece black percale, 36 yards > 2 pieces blue and brown bombazine > 4 pieces decorated bombazine > 1 dozen umbrellas > > > Chest No. 145: > > > 1 piece olive-colored cloth, 17 yards > 1 piece blue cloth, 15 yards > 1 piece black cloth, 21 yards > 1 piece blue cloth, 17 yards > 2 pieces black cloth, 56 yards > 1 piece blue cloth, 22 yards > 1 piece violet cloth, 24 yards > 1 piece green cloth, 31 yards > 4 pieces black percale, 112 yards > 2 pieces violet bombazine > 1 dozen umbrellas > 20 pieces Irish linen, 426 yards > > > Chest No. 147: > > > 2 pieces tacking, 48 yards > 5 pieces tacking, 115 yards > 20 pieces linen, 560 yards > 12 pieces chintz, 333 yards > > > Chest No. 148: > > > 13 pieces tacking, 307 yards > 2 pieces small brown cotton printed cloth, 44 yards > 5 pieces chintz, 141 yards > > > Trunk No. 151: > > > 9 pieces chintz with 253 yards > 7 pieces calico, 195 yards > > > Trunk No. 152: > > > 21 pieces of linen, 589 yards > 3 pieces blanket, 84 yards > > > Chest No. 153: > > > 2 pieces narrow lace with 32 yards > 6 pieces wide ribbon > 6 pieces wide ribbon > 12 dozen shawls with fringes > 5 dozen shawls with fringes > 1 dozen cheap short tunics > 1 dozen shawls with silk fringes > 6 silk embossed handkerchiefs > 6 dozen ribbons for sashes > 2 dozen handkerchief holders > 13 cotton shawls > 8 pieces muslin with 80 yards > > > Chest No. 154: > > > 2 pieces narrow lace, 32 yards > 9 fancy silk handkerchiefs > 2 dozen cotton handkerchiefs > 12 dozen cotton handkerchiefs > 2 dozen floral handkerchiefs > 6 fancy handkerchiefs > 1 dozen decorated silk shawls > 4 cheap short tunics > 6 mixed shawls > 1 dozen large handkerchiefs with fringes > > > Chest No. 79: > > > 36 pieces linen with 992 yards > > > Trunk No. 155: > > > 19 pieces linen with 632 yards > > > Trunk No. 156: > > > 5 pieces small striped cloth, 140 yards > 5 pieces chintz, 420 yards > > > Trunk No. 157: > > > 14 pieces damask cotton, 252 yards > > > Chest No. 605: > > > Various notebooks for use of the store, that I intend to open in the > same customs house > > > Chest No. 19: > > > 27 cotton shawls > 18 cotton shawls > 9 merino wool shawls > 4 bandanna handkerchiefs with 28 yards > 1 dozen orange cotton shawls > 1 dozen orange cotton shawls > 10 merino wool shawls > 2 pieces decorated twill, 24 yards > 4 pieces chintz, 112 yards > 2 pieces calico, 56 yards > > > Trunk No. 21: > > > 16 pieces blanket, 498 yards > > > Chest No. 33: > > > 20 pieces linen, 700 yards > > > Chest No. 42: > > > 20 pieces linen, 655 yards > > > Chest No. 44: > > > 20 pieces linen, 656 yards > > > Chest No. 47: > > > 20 pieces linen, 657 yards > > > Chest No. 58: > > > 20 pieces linen, 707 yards > > > Trunk No. 62: > > > 20 pieces blankets, 632 yards > > > Trunk No. 64: > > > 20 pieces blankets, 622 yards > > > Trunk No. 65: > > > 20 pieces blankets, 623 yards > > > Trunk No. 66: > > > 20 pieces blankets, 612 yards > > > Trunk No. 67: > > > 20 pieces blankets, 625 yards > > > Trunk No. 69: > > > 20 pieces blankets, 632 yards > > > Trunk No. 70: > > > 20 pieces blankets, 625 yards > > > Chest No. 77: > > > 20 pieces linen, 822 yards > > > Chest No. 78: > > > 20 pieces linen, 983 yards > > > Chest No. 81: > > > 20 pieces linen, 630 yards > > > Chest No. 85: > > > 20 pieces linen, 702 yards > > > Chest No. 38: > > > 20 pieces linen, 701 yards > > > Chest No. 45: > > > 20 pieces linen, 656 yards > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > In testimony of the truth, I sign in Santa Fe, July 11, 1831. > [SIGNED] Samuele Parkman > --------------090206010806090305090900 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1"> <title></title> </head> <body> It is intersting indeed. I didn't read the entire list, but check out the thousands of yards of material he carried with him (contents of trunk 80 +and -)! As anyone knows who has packed bulky heavy things around much, he had obviously been fetching lots and lots of profit or he would have left some of that at the dock rather than pack it all the way to Santa Fe!<br> <br> Sparks<br> <br> Paul Jones wrote:<br> <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid002201c3abe4$1c8b72e0$f0f2decf@pwj"> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; "> <meta content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1276" name="GENERATOR"> <style></style> <div><strong><font size="2">Thought this would be of interest.</font></strong></div> <div><strong></strong> </div> <div><strong><font size="2">Paul</font></strong><strong></strong></div> <div> <hr> <strong>Following are translations from Spanish to English of Samuel Parkman's list of trade goods as submitted to customs officials and the letter from Santiago Abreu to Agustín Durán regarding goods being cached by Parkman on the Ocate River: </strong> <hr> <center> <h1><strong>The Manifest of Jedediah Smith's Trade Goods</strong></h1> </center> <p><strong>Manifest that the citizen of the United States of America, Samuel Par[k]man, agent of citizen Jeradiah[sic] S. Smith, deceased, presents to the National Customs of the Territory of New Mexico of the effects that he brought from the said States, whose brands and quantities are as follows: </strong></p> <h4><strong>Chest No. 1:</strong></h4> <strong><br> 1 dozen small saws <br> 8 large saws <br> 2 dozen chisels <br> 2 gross small augers <br> 6 dozen panes of window glass <br> 2 dozen scutcheons <br> 2 dozen brass nails for curtains <br> 10 gross small screws <br> 6 packages iron tacks <br> 2 dozen pen knives <br> 1 dozen pocket razors <br> 3 dozen pen knives <br> 3 dozen pocket knives <br> 1 dozen shaving razors <br> 3 dozen shaving razors <br> 2 dozen butcher knives <br> 4 dozen table knives <br> 7 dozen table knives <br> 3 dozen butcher knives <br> 4 dozen butcher knives <br> 3 dozen butcher knives <br> 2 dozen green razor handles <br> 3 dozen white razor handles <br> 2 dozen pocket razors <br> 2 gross thimbles <br> 2,000 needles <br> 130 large needles <br> 1 dozen scissors <br> 3 3/4 dozen scissors <br> 2 gross small spoons <br> 7 small augers <br> 8 large augers <br> 3 dozen bone buttons <br> 4 gross marble buttons <br> 2 gross glass buttons <br> 1 gross shell buttons <br> 1 gross coat buttons <br> 2 gross waistcoat buttons <br> 1 dozen small files <br> 1 dozen large files <br> 1 dozen large files, half hollowed <br> 1 dozen rasps <br> 3 dozen large scutcheons <br> 3 dozens small scutcheons </strong> <h4><strong>Chest No. 2:</strong></h4> <strong><br> 2 dozen small saws <br> 1 dozen large chisels <br> 1 dozen small chisels <br> 2 gross small augers <br> 2 dozen brass nails, 6 inches <br> 1 dozen brass nails, 3 inches <br> 1/2 dozen brass nails, 3 1/2 inches <br> 1 dozen carbine keys <br> 8 gross small screws <br> 2 packages iron tacks <br> 4 packages iron tacks <br> 1 dozen table knives <br> 14 dozen butcher knives <br> 12 dozen pocket razors <br> 6 dozen knives and forks <br> 4 dozen pen knives <br> 2 gross thimbles <br> 2 1/2 thousand needles <br> 12 thousand large needles <br> 1 dozen scissors <br> 4 gross small spoons <br> 1/2 gross table spoons <br> 20 large augers <br> 3 dozen bone buttons <br> 5 gross marble buttons <br> 2 dozen glass buttons <br> 1 dozen shell buttons <br> 1 dozen shell buttons for shirt <br> 1 dozen yellow buttons <br> 1 dozen common buttons <br> 1 dozen buttons for waistcoat <br> 1 dozen small files <br> 2 dozen large files <br> 1 dozen rasps, half hollowed <br> 6 dozen large scutcheons <br> 4 dozen trunk scutcheons </strong> <h4><strong>Trunk No. 3:</strong></h4> <strong><br> 36 cotton handkerchiefs <br> 3 pieces cotton handkerchiefs <br> 5 pieces silk handkerchiefs <br> 10 dozen cotton handkerchiefs <br> 3 pieces silk handkerchiefs with 21 yards <br> 12 short Sicilian silk tunics <br> 8 pieces Indian silk handkerchiefs <br> 3 carrandan short tunics <br> 6 merino wool shawls <br> 10 colored girl's merino wool shawls <br> 7 red girl's merino wool shawl <br> 6 scarlet wool shawls <br> 3 pieces twill, with 36 yards <br> 3 pieces white handkerchiefs for the purse <br> 2 pieces yellow carrrandan with 56 yards <br> 1 piece striped carrandan with 18 yards <br> 2 piece vestings with 24 yards <br> 2 pieces striped batiste with 24 yards <br> 4 pieces indigo florentine with 76 yards </strong> <h4><strong>Chest No. 4:</strong></h4> <strong><br> 3 pieces cotton handkerchiefs with 39 <br> 3 pieces bandanna handkerchiefs, 21 yards <br> 10 pieces cotton handkerchiefs with 132 yards <br> 148 pieces Indian silk handkerchief, 98 yards <br> 3 short carrandan tunics <br> 6 girl's merino wool shawls <br> 10 colored merino wool shawls <br> 7 red merino wool shawls <br> 3 pieces twill, with 36 yards <br> 3 pieces cotton handkerchiefs with 40 yards <br> 3 pieces carrandan with 34 yards <br> 1 piece striped carrandan with 18 yards <br> 3 pieces vestings with 19 yards </strong> <h4><strong>Trunk No. 23:</strong></h4> <strong><br> 8 pieces small striped cloth with 291 yards <br> 4 pieces small cotton printed cloth with 131 yards </strong> <h4><strong>Chest No. 28:</strong></h4> <strong><br> 10 pieces yellow nankin <br> 25 pieces blue nankin <br> 1 dozen handkerchiefs <br> 6 shawls <br> 8 Mandarin shawls <br> 3 packages pins <br> 3 pieces chintz for curtains with 84 yards <br> 4 pieces belfa with 100 yards </strong> <h4><strong>Trunk No. 41:</strong></h4> <strong><br> 20 pieces linen with 636 yards </strong> <h4><strong>Chest No. 48:</strong></h4> <strong><br> 20 pieces linen with 630 yards </strong> <h4><strong>Chest No. 71:</strong></h4> <strong><br> 20 pieces blanket with 567 yards </strong> <h4><strong>Chest No. 72:</strong></h4> <strong><br> 20 pieces blanket with 569 yards </strong> <h4><strong>Chest No. 86:</strong></h4> <strong><br> 20 pieces linen with 606 yards </strong> <h4><strong>Unnumbered chest:</strong></h4> <strong><br> 1 dozen large mirrors </strong> <h4><strong>Chest No. 121:</strong></h4> <strong><br> 1 set of blank account books, a small quantity of writing paper, and a small quantity of wrapping paper, all for expense </strong> <h4><strong>Barrel No. 129:</strong></h4> <strong><br> 15 dozen china plates <br> 32 dozen china cups <br> 4 sets of china with 33 pieces each <br> 4 dozen chocolate cups <br> 6 dozen mugs <br> 2 dozen chocolate cups </strong> <h4><strong>Chest No. 141:</strong></h4> <strong><br> 3 pieces escalarata with 51 yards <br> 1 piece scarlet flannel with 36 yards <br> 1 piece yellow flannel with 32 yards <br> 1 piece green flannel with 29 yards <br> 3 pieces white flannel with 57 yards <br> 1 piece blue cloth with 16 yards <br> 1 piece black percale with 28 yards <br> 2 pieces Irish linen, with 44 yards </strong> <h4><strong>Chest No. 42:</strong></h4> <strong><br> 3 pieces scarlet cloth with 46 yards <br> 2 pieces yellow flannel, 47 yards <br> 1 piece green flannel, 27 yards <br> 2 pieces black percale, 56 yards <br> 1 dozen umbrellas </strong> <h4><strong>Chest No. 144:</strong></h4> <strong><br> 1 piece high quality blue cloth, 24 yards <br> 1 piece blue cloth, 14 yards <br> 1 piece brown cloth, 22 yards <br> 1 piece blue cloth, 32 yards <br> 1 piece black cloth, 23 yards <br> 1 piece black percale, 36 yards <br> 2 pieces blue and brown bombazine <br> 4 pieces decorated bombazine <br> 1 dozen umbrellas </strong> <h4><strong>Chest No. 145:</strong></h4> <strong><br> 1 piece olive-colored cloth, 17 yards <br> 1 piece blue cloth, 15 yards <br> 1 piece black cloth, 21 yards <br> 1 piece blue cloth, 17 yards <br> 2 pieces black cloth, 56 yards <br> 1 piece blue cloth, 22 yards <br> 1 piece violet cloth, 24 yards <br> 1 piece green cloth, 31 yards <br> 4 pieces black percale, 112 yards <br> 2 pieces violet bombazine <br> 1 dozen umbrellas <br> 20 pieces Irish linen, 426 yards </strong> <h4><strong>Chest No. 147:</strong></h4> <strong><br> 2 pieces tacking, 48 yards <br> 5 pieces tacking, 115 yards <br> 20 pieces linen, 560 yards <br> 12 pieces chintz, 333 yards </strong> <h4><strong>Chest No. 148:</strong></h4> <strong><br> 13 pieces tacking, 307 yards <br> 2 pieces small brown cotton printed cloth, 44 yards <br> 5 pieces chintz, 141 yards </strong> <h4><strong>Trunk No. 151:</strong></h4> <strong><br> 9 pieces chintz with 253 yards <br> 7 pieces calico, 195 yards </strong> <h4><strong>Trunk No. 152:</strong></h4> <strong><br> 21 pieces of linen, 589 yards <br> 3 pieces blanket, 84 yards </strong> <h4><strong>Chest No. 153:</strong></h4> <strong><br> 2 pieces narrow lace with 32 yards <br> 6 pieces wide ribbon <br> 6 pieces wide ribbon <br> 12 dozen shawls with fringes <br> 5 dozen shawls with fringes <br> 1 dozen cheap short tunics <br> 1 dozen shawls with silk fringes <br> 6 silk embossed handkerchiefs <br> 6 dozen ribbons for sashes <br> 2 dozen handkerchief holders <br> 13 cotton shawls <br> 8 pieces muslin with 80 yards </strong> <h4><strong>Chest No. 154:</strong></h4> <strong><br> 2 pieces narrow lace, 32 yards <br> 9 fancy silk handkerchiefs <br> 2 dozen cotton handkerchiefs <br> 12 dozen cotton handkerchiefs <br> 2 dozen floral handkerchiefs <br> 6 fancy handkerchiefs <br> 1 dozen decorated silk shawls <br> 4 cheap short tunics <br> 6 mixed shawls <br> 1 dozen large handkerchiefs with fringes </strong> <h4><strong>Chest No. 79:</strong></h4> <strong><br> 36 pieces linen with 992 yards </strong> <h4><strong>Trunk No. 155:</strong></h4> <strong><br> 19 pieces linen with 632 yards </strong> <h4><strong>Trunk No. 156:</strong></h4> <strong><br> 5 pieces small striped cloth, 140 yards <br> 5 pieces chintz, 420 yards </strong> <h4><strong>Trunk No. 157:</strong></h4> <strong><br> 14 pieces damask cotton, 252 yards </strong> <h4><strong>Chest No. 605:</strong></h4> <strong><br> Various notebooks for use of the store, that I intend to open in the same customs house </strong> <h4><strong>Chest No. 19:</strong></h4> <strong><br> 27 cotton shawls <br> 18 cotton shawls <br> 9 merino wool shawls <br> 4 bandanna handkerchiefs with 28 yards <br> 1 dozen orange cotton shawls <br> 1 dozen orange cotton shawls <br> 10 merino wool shawls <br> 2 pieces decorated twill, 24 yards <br> 4 pieces chintz, 112 yards <br> 2 pieces calico, 56 yards </strong> <h4><strong>Trunk No. 21:</strong></h4> <strong><br> 16 pieces blanket, 498 yards </strong> <h4><strong>Chest No. 33:</strong></h4> <strong><br> 20 pieces linen, 700 yards </strong> <h4><strong>Chest No. 42:</strong></h4> <strong><br> 20 pieces linen, 655 yards </strong> <h4><strong>Chest No. 44:</strong></h4> <strong><br> 20 pieces linen, 656 yards </strong> <h4><strong>Chest No. 47:</strong></h4> <strong><br> 20 pieces linen, 657 yards </strong> <h4><strong>Chest No. 58:</strong></h4> <strong><br> 20 pieces linen, 707 yards </strong> <h4><strong>Trunk No. 62:</strong></h4> <strong><br> 20 pieces blankets, 632 yards </strong> <h4><strong>Trunk No. 64:</strong></h4> <strong><br> 20 pieces blankets, 622 yards </strong> <h4><strong>Trunk No. 65:</strong></h4> <strong><br> 20 pieces blankets, 623 yards </strong> <h4><strong>Trunk No. 66:</strong></h4> <strong><br> 20 pieces blankets, 612 yards </strong> <h4><strong>Trunk No. 67:</strong></h4> <strong><br> 20 pieces blankets, 625 yards </strong> <h4><strong>Trunk No. 69:</strong></h4> <strong><br> 20 pieces blankets, 632 yards </strong> <h4><strong>Trunk No. 70:</strong></h4> <strong><br> 20 pieces blankets, 625 yards </strong> <h4><strong>Chest No. 77:</strong></h4> <strong><br> 20 pieces linen, 822 yards </strong> <h4><strong>Chest No. 78:</strong></h4> <strong><br> 20 pieces linen, 983 yards </strong> <h4><strong>Chest No. 81:</strong></h4> <strong><br> 20 pieces linen, 630 yards </strong> <h4><strong>Chest No. 85:</strong></h4> <strong><br> 20 pieces linen, 702 yards </strong> <h4><strong>Chest No. 38:</strong></h4> <strong><br> 20 pieces linen, 701 yards </strong> <h4><strong>Chest No. 45:</strong></h4> <strong><br> 20 pieces linen, 656 yards </strong> <hr> <p><strong>In testimony of the truth, I sign in Santa Fe, July 11, 1831. <br> [SIGNED] Samuele Parkman </strong></p> </div> </blockquote> <br> </body> </html> --------------090206010806090305090900-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "JIM BRYAN" <jbryan1939@msn.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Jed Smith's manifest Date: 16 Nov 2003 09:04:31 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C3AC20.A584CA60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This cannot hold a candle to the amount of plunder I have seen Pablo = carry to market!! Absalom Women and cats will do as they wish, and men and dogs should get used to = the idea ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Paul Jones=20 To: ammlist@lists.xmission.com=20 Cc: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2003 7:51 PM Subject: MtMan-List: Jed Smith's manifest Thought this would be of interest. Paul ----- Following are translations from Spanish to English of Samuel Parkman's = list of trade goods as submitted to customs officials and the letter = from Santiago Abreu to Agust=EDn Dur=E1n regarding goods being cached by = Parkman on the Ocate River:=20 ----- The Manifest of Jedediah Smith's Trade Goods Manifest that the citizen of the United States of America, Samuel = Par[k]man, agent of citizen Jeradiah[sic] S. Smith, deceased, presents = to the National Customs of the Territory of New Mexico of the effects = that he brought from the said States, whose brands and quantities are as = follows:=20 Chest No. 1: 1 dozen small saws=20 8 large saws=20 2 dozen chisels=20 2 gross small augers=20 6 dozen panes of window glass=20 2 dozen scutcheons=20 2 dozen brass nails for curtains=20 10 gross small screws=20 6 packages iron tacks=20 2 dozen pen knives=20 1 dozen pocket razors=20 3 dozen pen knives=20 3 dozen pocket knives=20 1 dozen shaving razors=20 3 dozen shaving razors=20 2 dozen butcher knives=20 4 dozen table knives=20 7 dozen table knives=20 3 dozen butcher knives=20 4 dozen butcher knives=20 3 dozen butcher knives=20 2 dozen green razor handles=20 3 dozen white razor handles=20 2 dozen pocket razors=20 2 gross thimbles=20 2,000 needles=20 130 large needles=20 1 dozen scissors=20 3 3/4 dozen scissors=20 2 gross small spoons=20 7 small augers=20 8 large augers=20 3 dozen bone buttons=20 4 gross marble buttons=20 2 gross glass buttons=20 1 gross shell buttons=20 1 gross coat buttons=20 2 gross waistcoat buttons=20 1 dozen small files=20 1 dozen large files=20 1 dozen large files, half hollowed=20 1 dozen rasps=20 3 dozen large scutcheons=20 3 dozens small scutcheons=20 Chest No. 2: 2 dozen small saws=20 1 dozen large chisels=20 1 dozen small chisels=20 2 gross small augers=20 2 dozen brass nails, 6 inches=20 1 dozen brass nails, 3 inches=20 1/2 dozen brass nails, 3 1/2 inches=20 1 dozen carbine keys=20 8 gross small screws=20 2 packages iron tacks=20 4 packages iron tacks=20 1 dozen table knives=20 14 dozen butcher knives=20 12 dozen pocket razors=20 6 dozen knives and forks=20 4 dozen pen knives=20 2 gross thimbles=20 2 1/2 thousand needles=20 12 thousand large needles=20 1 dozen scissors=20 4 gross small spoons=20 1/2 gross table spoons=20 20 large augers=20 3 dozen bone buttons=20 5 gross marble buttons=20 2 dozen glass buttons=20 1 dozen shell buttons=20 1 dozen shell buttons for shirt=20 1 dozen yellow buttons=20 1 dozen common buttons=20 1 dozen buttons for waistcoat=20 1 dozen small files=20 2 dozen large files=20 1 dozen rasps, half hollowed=20 6 dozen large scutcheons=20 4 dozen trunk scutcheons=20 Trunk No. 3: 36 cotton handkerchiefs=20 3 pieces cotton handkerchiefs=20 5 pieces silk handkerchiefs=20 10 dozen cotton handkerchiefs=20 3 pieces silk handkerchiefs with 21 yards=20 12 short Sicilian silk tunics=20 8 pieces Indian silk handkerchiefs=20 3 carrandan short tunics=20 6 merino wool shawls=20 10 colored girl's merino wool shawls=20 7 red girl's merino wool shawl=20 6 scarlet wool shawls=20 3 pieces twill, with 36 yards=20 3 pieces white handkerchiefs for the purse=20 2 pieces yellow carrrandan with 56 yards=20 1 piece striped carrandan with 18 yards=20 2 piece vestings with 24 yards=20 2 pieces striped batiste with 24 yards=20 4 pieces indigo florentine with 76 yards=20 Chest No. 4: 3 pieces cotton handkerchiefs with 39=20 3 pieces bandanna handkerchiefs, 21 yards=20 10 pieces cotton handkerchiefs with 132 yards=20 148 pieces Indian silk handkerchief, 98 yards=20 3 short carrandan tunics=20 6 girl's merino wool shawls=20 10 colored merino wool shawls=20 7 red merino wool shawls=20 3 pieces twill, with 36 yards=20 3 pieces cotton handkerchiefs with 40 yards=20 3 pieces carrandan with 34 yards=20 1 piece striped carrandan with 18 yards=20 3 pieces vestings with 19 yards=20 Trunk No. 23: 8 pieces small striped cloth with 291 yards=20 4 pieces small cotton printed cloth with 131 yards=20 Chest No. 28: 10 pieces yellow nankin=20 25 pieces blue nankin=20 1 dozen handkerchiefs=20 6 shawls=20 8 Mandarin shawls=20 3 packages pins=20 3 pieces chintz for curtains with 84 yards=20 4 pieces belfa with 100 yards=20 Trunk No. 41: 20 pieces linen with 636 yards=20 Chest No. 48: 20 pieces linen with 630 yards=20 Chest No. 71: 20 pieces blanket with 567 yards=20 Chest No. 72: 20 pieces blanket with 569 yards=20 Chest No. 86: 20 pieces linen with 606 yards=20 Unnumbered chest: 1 dozen large mirrors=20 Chest No. 121: 1 set of blank account books, a small quantity of writing paper, and a = small quantity of wrapping paper, all for expense=20 Barrel No. 129: 15 dozen china plates=20 32 dozen china cups=20 4 sets of china with 33 pieces each=20 4 dozen chocolate cups=20 6 dozen mugs=20 2 dozen chocolate cups=20 Chest No. 141: 3 pieces escalarata with 51 yards=20 1 piece scarlet flannel with 36 yards=20 1 piece yellow flannel with 32 yards=20 1 piece green flannel with 29 yards=20 3 pieces white flannel with 57 yards=20 1 piece blue cloth with 16 yards=20 1 piece black percale with 28 yards=20 2 pieces Irish linen, with 44 yards=20 Chest No. 42: 3 pieces scarlet cloth with 46 yards=20 2 pieces yellow flannel, 47 yards=20 1 piece green flannel, 27 yards=20 2 pieces black percale, 56 yards=20 1 dozen umbrellas=20 Chest No. 144: 1 piece high quality blue cloth, 24 yards=20 1 piece blue cloth, 14 yards=20 1 piece brown cloth, 22 yards=20 1 piece blue cloth, 32 yards=20 1 piece black cloth, 23 yards=20 1 piece black percale, 36 yards=20 2 pieces blue and brown bombazine=20 4 pieces decorated bombazine=20 1 dozen umbrellas=20 Chest No. 145: 1 piece olive-colored cloth, 17 yards=20 1 piece blue cloth, 15 yards=20 1 piece black cloth, 21 yards=20 1 piece blue cloth, 17 yards=20 2 pieces black cloth, 56 yards=20 1 piece blue cloth, 22 yards=20 1 piece violet cloth, 24 yards=20 1 piece green cloth, 31 yards=20 4 pieces black percale, 112 yards=20 2 pieces violet bombazine=20 1 dozen umbrellas=20 20 pieces Irish linen, 426 yards=20 Chest No. 147: 2 pieces tacking, 48 yards=20 5 pieces tacking, 115 yards=20 20 pieces linen, 560 yards=20 12 pieces chintz, 333 yards=20 Chest No. 148: 13 pieces tacking, 307 yards=20 2 pieces small brown cotton printed cloth, 44 yards=20 5 pieces chintz, 141 yards=20 Trunk No. 151: 9 pieces chintz with 253 yards=20 7 pieces calico, 195 yards=20 Trunk No. 152: 21 pieces of linen, 589 yards=20 3 pieces blanket, 84 yards=20 Chest No. 153: 2 pieces narrow lace with 32 yards=20 6 pieces wide ribbon=20 6 pieces wide ribbon=20 12 dozen shawls with fringes=20 5 dozen shawls with fringes=20 1 dozen cheap short tunics=20 1 dozen shawls with silk fringes=20 6 silk embossed handkerchiefs=20 6 dozen ribbons for sashes=20 2 dozen handkerchief holders=20 13 cotton shawls=20 8 pieces muslin with 80 yards=20 Chest No. 154: 2 pieces narrow lace, 32 yards=20 9 fancy silk handkerchiefs=20 2 dozen cotton handkerchiefs=20 12 dozen cotton handkerchiefs=20 2 dozen floral handkerchiefs=20 6 fancy handkerchiefs=20 1 dozen decorated silk shawls=20 4 cheap short tunics=20 6 mixed shawls=20 1 dozen large handkerchiefs with fringes=20 Chest No. 79: 36 pieces linen with 992 yards=20 Trunk No. 155: 19 pieces linen with 632 yards=20 Trunk No. 156: 5 pieces small striped cloth, 140 yards=20 5 pieces chintz, 420 yards=20 Trunk No. 157: 14 pieces damask cotton, 252 yards=20 Chest No. 605: Various notebooks for use of the store, that I intend to open in the = same customs house=20 Chest No. 19: 27 cotton shawls=20 18 cotton shawls=20 9 merino wool shawls=20 4 bandanna handkerchiefs with 28 yards=20 1 dozen orange cotton shawls=20 1 dozen orange cotton shawls=20 10 merino wool shawls=20 2 pieces decorated twill, 24 yards=20 4 pieces chintz, 112 yards=20 2 pieces calico, 56 yards=20 Trunk No. 21: 16 pieces blanket, 498 yards=20 Chest No. 33: 20 pieces linen, 700 yards=20 Chest No. 42: 20 pieces linen, 655 yards=20 Chest No. 44: 20 pieces linen, 656 yards=20 Chest No. 47: 20 pieces linen, 657 yards=20 Chest No. 58: 20 pieces linen, 707 yards=20 Trunk No. 62: 20 pieces blankets, 632 yards=20 Trunk No. 64: 20 pieces blankets, 622 yards=20 Trunk No. 65: 20 pieces blankets, 623 yards=20 Trunk No. 66: 20 pieces blankets, 612 yards=20 Trunk No. 67: 20 pieces blankets, 625 yards=20 Trunk No. 69: 20 pieces blankets, 632 yards=20 Trunk No. 70: 20 pieces blankets, 625 yards=20 Chest No. 77: 20 pieces linen, 822 yards=20 Chest No. 78: 20 pieces linen, 983 yards=20 Chest No. 81: 20 pieces linen, 630 yards=20 Chest No. 85: 20 pieces linen, 702 yards=20 Chest No. 38: 20 pieces linen, 701 yards=20 Chest No. 45: 20 pieces linen, 656 yards=20 ----- In testimony of the truth, I sign in Santa Fe, July 11, 1831.=20 [SIGNED] Samuele Parkman=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C3AC20.A584CA60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type = content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1276" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY id=3DMailContainerBody=20 style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 10px; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; = COLOR: #000000; BORDER-TOP-STYLE: none; PADDING-TOP: 15px; FONT-STYLE: = normal; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; BORDER-RIGHT-STYLE: none; = BORDER-LEFT-STYLE: none; TEXT-DECORATION: none; BORDER-BOTTOM-STYLE: = none"=20 bgColor=3D#ffffff leftMargin=3D0 topMargin=3D0 acc_role=3D"text" = CanvasTabStop=3D"true"=20 name=3D"Compose message area"><?xml:namespace prefix=3D"v" = /><?xml:namespace prefix=3D"o" /> <DIV> <DIV>This cannot hold a candle to the amount of plunder I have seen = Pablo carry=20 to market!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Absalom</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Women and cats will do as they wish, and men and dogs should get = used to=20 the idea</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>From:</B> <A=20 href=3D"mailto:pwjones@myexcel.com">Paul Jones</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20 = href=3D"mailto:ammlist@lists.xmission.com">ammlist@lists.xmission.com</A>= </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A=20 = href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com= </A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, November 15, = 2003 7:51=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> MtMan-List: Jed = Smith's=20 manifest</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3D2>Thought this would be of=20 interest.</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3D2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3D2>Paul</FONT></STRONG><STRONG></DIV> <DIV> <HR> Following are translations from Spanish to English of Samuel Parkman's = list of=20 trade goods as submitted to customs officials and the letter from = Santiago=20 Abreu to Agust=EDn Dur=E1n regarding goods being cached by Parkman on = the Ocate=20 River:=20 <HR> <CENTER> <H1>The Manifest of Jedediah Smith's Trade Goods</H1></CENTER> <P>Manifest that the citizen of the United States of America, Samuel=20 Par[k]man, agent of citizen Jeradiah[sic] S. Smith, deceased, presents = to the=20 National Customs of the Territory of New Mexico of the effects that he = brought=20 from the said States, whose brands and quantities are as follows:=20 <H4>Chest No. 1:</H4><BR>1 dozen small saws <BR>8 large saws <BR>2 = dozen=20 chisels <BR>2 gross small augers <BR>6 dozen panes of window glass = <BR>2 dozen=20 scutcheons <BR>2 dozen brass nails for curtains <BR>10 gross small = screws=20 <BR>6 packages iron tacks <BR>2 dozen pen knives <BR>1 dozen pocket = razors=20 <BR>3 dozen pen knives <BR>3 dozen pocket knives <BR>1 dozen shaving = razors=20 <BR>3 dozen shaving razors <BR>2 dozen butcher knives <BR>4 dozen = table knives=20 <BR>7 dozen table knives <BR>3 dozen butcher knives <BR>4 dozen = butcher knives=20 <BR>3 dozen butcher knives <BR>2 dozen green razor handles <BR>3 dozen = white=20 razor handles <BR>2 dozen pocket razors <BR>2 gross thimbles <BR>2,000 = needles=20 <BR>130 large needles <BR>1 dozen scissors <BR>3 3/4 dozen scissors = <BR>2=20 gross small spoons <BR>7 small augers <BR>8 large augers <BR>3 dozen = bone=20 buttons <BR>4 gross marble buttons <BR>2 gross glass buttons <BR>1 = gross shell=20 buttons <BR>1 gross coat buttons <BR>2 gross waistcoat buttons <BR>1 = dozen=20 small files <BR>1 dozen large files <BR>1 dozen large files, half = hollowed=20 <BR>1 dozen rasps <BR>3 dozen large scutcheons <BR>3 dozens small = scutcheons=20 <H4>Chest No. 2:</H4><BR>2 dozen small saws <BR>1 dozen large chisels = <BR>1=20 dozen small chisels <BR>2 gross small augers <BR>2 dozen brass nails, = 6 inches=20 <BR>1 dozen brass nails, 3 inches <BR>1/2 dozen brass nails, 3 1/2 = inches=20 <BR>1 dozen carbine keys <BR>8 gross small screws <BR>2 packages iron = tacks=20 <BR>4 packages iron tacks <BR>1 dozen table knives <BR>14 dozen = butcher knives=20 <BR>12 dozen pocket razors <BR>6 dozen knives and forks <BR>4 dozen = pen knives=20 <BR>2 gross thimbles <BR>2 1/2 thousand needles <BR>12 thousand large = needles=20 <BR>1 dozen scissors <BR>4 gross small spoons <BR>1/2 gross table = spoons=20 <BR>20 large augers <BR>3 dozen bone buttons <BR>5 gross marble = buttons <BR>2=20 dozen glass buttons <BR>1 dozen shell buttons <BR>1 dozen shell = buttons for=20 shirt <BR>1 dozen yellow buttons <BR>1 dozen common buttons <BR>1 = dozen=20 buttons for waistcoat <BR>1 dozen small files <BR>2 dozen large files = <BR>1=20 dozen rasps, half hollowed <BR>6 dozen large scutcheons <BR>4 dozen = trunk=20 scutcheons=20 <H4>Trunk No. 3:</H4><BR>36 cotton handkerchiefs <BR>3 pieces cotton=20 handkerchiefs <BR>5 pieces silk handkerchiefs <BR>10 dozen cotton=20 handkerchiefs <BR>3 pieces silk handkerchiefs with 21 yards <BR>12 = short=20 Sicilian silk tunics <BR>8 pieces Indian silk handkerchiefs <BR>3 = carrandan=20 short tunics <BR>6 merino wool shawls <BR>10 colored girl's merino = wool shawls=20 <BR>7 red girl's merino wool shawl <BR>6 scarlet wool shawls <BR>3 = pieces=20 twill, with 36 yards <BR>3 pieces white handkerchiefs for the purse = <BR>2=20 pieces yellow carrrandan with 56 yards <BR>1 piece striped carrandan = with 18=20 yards <BR>2 piece vestings with 24 yards <BR>2 pieces striped batiste = with 24=20 yards <BR>4 pieces indigo florentine with 76 yards=20 <H4>Chest No. 4:</H4><BR>3 pieces cotton handkerchiefs with 39 <BR>3 = pieces=20 bandanna handkerchiefs, 21 yards <BR>10 pieces cotton handkerchiefs = with 132=20 yards <BR>148 pieces Indian silk handkerchief, 98 yards <BR>3 short = carrandan=20 tunics <BR>6 girl's merino wool shawls <BR>10 colored merino wool = shawls <BR>7=20 red merino wool shawls <BR>3 pieces twill, with 36 yards <BR>3 pieces = cotton=20 handkerchiefs with 40 yards <BR>3 pieces carrandan with 34 yards <BR>1 = piece=20 striped carrandan with 18 yards <BR>3 pieces vestings with 19 yards=20 <H4>Trunk No. 23:</H4><BR>8 pieces small striped cloth with 291 yards = <BR>4=20 pieces small cotton printed cloth with 131 yards=20 <H4>Chest No. 28:</H4><BR>10 pieces yellow nankin <BR>25 pieces blue = nankin=20 <BR>1 dozen handkerchiefs <BR>6 shawls <BR>8 Mandarin shawls <BR>3 = packages=20 pins <BR>3 pieces chintz for curtains with 84 yards <BR>4 pieces belfa = with=20 100 yards=20 <H4>Trunk No. 41:</H4><BR>20 pieces linen with 636 yards=20 <H4>Chest No. 48:</H4><BR>20 pieces linen with 630 yards=20 <H4>Chest No. 71:</H4><BR>20 pieces blanket with 567 yards=20 <H4>Chest No. 72:</H4><BR>20 pieces blanket with 569 yards=20 <H4>Chest No. 86:</H4><BR>20 pieces linen with 606 yards=20 <H4>Unnumbered chest:</H4><BR>1 dozen large mirrors=20 <H4>Chest No. 121:</H4><BR>1 set of blank account books, a small = quantity of=20 writing paper, and a small quantity of wrapping paper, all for expense = <H4>Barrel No. 129:</H4><BR>15 dozen china plates <BR>32 dozen china = cups=20 <BR>4 sets of china with 33 pieces each <BR>4 dozen chocolate cups = <BR>6 dozen=20 mugs <BR>2 dozen chocolate cups=20 <H4>Chest No. 141:</H4><BR>3 pieces escalarata with 51 yards <BR>1 = piece=20 scarlet flannel with 36 yards <BR>1 piece yellow flannel with 32 yards = <BR>1=20 piece green flannel with 29 yards <BR>3 pieces white flannel with 57 = yards=20 <BR>1 piece blue cloth with 16 yards <BR>1 piece black percale with 28 = yards=20 <BR>2 pieces Irish linen, with 44 yards=20 <H4>Chest No. 42:</H4><BR>3 pieces scarlet cloth with 46 yards <BR>2 = pieces=20 yellow flannel, 47 yards <BR>1 piece green flannel, 27 yards <BR>2 = pieces=20 black percale, 56 yards <BR>1 dozen umbrellas=20 <H4>Chest No. 144:</H4><BR>1 piece high quality blue cloth, 24 yards = <BR>1=20 piece blue cloth, 14 yards <BR>1 piece brown cloth, 22 yards <BR>1 = piece blue=20 cloth, 32 yards <BR>1 piece black cloth, 23 yards <BR>1 piece black = percale,=20 36 yards <BR>2 pieces blue and brown bombazine <BR>4 pieces decorated=20 bombazine <BR>1 dozen umbrellas=20 <H4>Chest No. 145:</H4><BR>1 piece olive-colored cloth, 17 yards <BR>1 = piece=20 blue cloth, 15 yards <BR>1 piece black cloth, 21 yards <BR>1 piece = blue cloth,=20 17 yards <BR>2 pieces black cloth, 56 yards <BR>1 piece blue cloth, 22 = yards=20 <BR>1 piece violet cloth, 24 yards <BR>1 piece green cloth, 31 yards = <BR>4=20 pieces black percale, 112 yards <BR>2 pieces violet bombazine <BR>1 = dozen=20 umbrellas <BR>20 pieces Irish linen, 426 yards=20 <H4>Chest No. 147:</H4><BR>2 pieces tacking, 48 yards <BR>5 pieces = tacking,=20 115 yards <BR>20 pieces linen, 560 yards <BR>12 pieces chintz, 333 = yards=20 <H4>Chest No. 148:</H4><BR>13 pieces tacking, 307 yards <BR>2 pieces = small=20 brown cotton printed cloth, 44 yards <BR>5 pieces chintz, 141 yards=20 <H4>Trunk No. 151:</H4><BR>9 pieces chintz with 253 yards <BR>7 pieces = calico,=20 195 yards=20 <H4>Trunk No. 152:</H4><BR>21 pieces of linen, 589 yards <BR>3 pieces = blanket,=20 84 yards=20 <H4>Chest No. 153:</H4><BR>2 pieces narrow lace with 32 yards <BR>6 = pieces=20 wide ribbon <BR>6 pieces wide ribbon <BR>12 dozen shawls with fringes = <BR>5=20 dozen shawls with fringes <BR>1 dozen cheap short tunics <BR>1 dozen = shawls=20 with silk fringes <BR>6 silk embossed handkerchiefs <BR>6 dozen = ribbons for=20 sashes <BR>2 dozen handkerchief holders <BR>13 cotton shawls <BR>8 = pieces=20 muslin with 80 yards=20 <H4>Chest No. 154:</H4><BR>2 pieces narrow lace, 32 yards <BR>9 fancy = silk=20 handkerchiefs <BR>2 dozen cotton handkerchiefs <BR>12 dozen cotton=20 handkerchiefs <BR>2 dozen floral handkerchiefs <BR>6 fancy = handkerchiefs <BR>1=20 dozen decorated silk shawls <BR>4 cheap short tunics <BR>6 mixed = shawls <BR>1=20 dozen large handkerchiefs with fringes=20 <H4>Chest No. 79:</H4><BR>36 pieces linen with 992 yards=20 <H4>Trunk No. 155:</H4><BR>19 pieces linen with 632 yards=20 <H4>Trunk No. 156:</H4><BR>5 pieces small striped cloth, 140 yards = <BR>5=20 pieces chintz, 420 yards=20 <H4>Trunk No. 157:</H4><BR>14 pieces damask cotton, 252 yards=20 <H4>Chest No. 605:</H4><BR>Various notebooks for use of the store, = that I=20 intend to open in the same customs house=20 <H4>Chest No. 19:</H4><BR>27 cotton shawls <BR>18 cotton shawls <BR>9 = merino=20 wool shawls <BR>4 bandanna handkerchiefs with 28 yards <BR>1 dozen = orange=20 cotton shawls <BR>1 dozen orange cotton shawls <BR>10 merino wool = shawls <BR>2=20 pieces decorated twill, 24 yards <BR>4 pieces chintz, 112 yards <BR>2 = pieces=20 calico, 56 yards=20 <H4>Trunk No. 21:</H4><BR>16 pieces blanket, 498 yards=20 <H4>Chest No. 33:</H4><BR>20 pieces linen, 700 yards=20 <H4>Chest No. 42:</H4><BR>20 pieces linen, 655 yards=20 <H4>Chest No. 44:</H4><BR>20 pieces linen, 656 yards=20 <H4>Chest No. 47:</H4><BR>20 pieces linen, 657 yards=20 <H4>Chest No. 58:</H4><BR>20 pieces linen, 707 yards=20 <H4>Trunk No. 62:</H4><BR>20 pieces blankets, 632 yards=20 <H4>Trunk No. 64:</H4><BR>20 pieces blankets, 622 yards=20 <H4>Trunk No. 65:</H4><BR>20 pieces blankets, 623 yards=20 <H4>Trunk No. 66:</H4><BR>20 pieces blankets, 612 yards=20 <H4>Trunk No. 67:</H4><BR>20 pieces blankets, 625 yards=20 <H4>Trunk No. 69:</H4><BR>20 pieces blankets, 632 yards=20 <H4>Trunk No. 70:</H4><BR>20 pieces blankets, 625 yards=20 <H4>Chest No. 77:</H4><BR>20 pieces linen, 822 yards=20 <H4>Chest No. 78:</H4><BR>20 pieces linen, 983 yards=20 <H4>Chest No. 81:</H4><BR>20 pieces linen, 630 yards=20 <H4>Chest No. 85:</H4><BR>20 pieces linen, 702 yards=20 <H4>Chest No. 38:</H4><BR>20 pieces linen, 701 yards=20 <H4>Chest No. 45:</H4><BR>20 pieces linen, 656 yards=20 <HR> <P>In testimony of the truth, I sign in Santa Fe, July 11, 1831. = <BR>[SIGNED]=20 Samuele Parkman </P></STRONG></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C3AC20.A584CA60-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: MtMan-List: Banff Mountain Film Festival Date: 16 Nov 2003 11:07:27 -0700 (MST) Dear List, If any of you would like to see the Banff Mountain Film Festival look up your state here. Great Falls, Montana is usually their first stop as we are only a half a days drive south of the Banff. It is a great way to spend an evening (2 hours or so). Really gets you in the outdoor/mountain state of mind! bb http://www.banffmountainfestivals.ca/tour/unitedstates/ ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Glenn Darilek" <glenn@leaklocationservices.com> Subject: MtMan-List: hand carts Date: 17 Nov 2003 09:12:26 -0600 On 14 Nov 2003 12:20:24 -0600 John Kramer wrote >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bedding >A hand cart is as anachronistic as my Pickup; some seem >to think it looks better in camp. Right. But two-wheeled carts were not only period, but documented in the rendezvous era. They were called by the french word 'charrette.' Now, I don't think they had steel wheels though. Glenn Darilek Iron Burner ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: hand carts Date: 17 Nov 2003 22:22:21 -0600 Two wheel horse carts are quite different than Pioneer hand carts which are quite different than two wheel dog carts differing from two wheel goat carts. Then we have wagons and buggies and other 4 wheel conveyance. Some wagons made it to rendezvous were they two or four wheel? The more common two wheel cart we know was used during and for the fur trade though questionable at rendezvous would be the Red River carts. Yes steel wheels would be most inappropriate on those. Wheelbarrows, sledges, sleighs and a whole lot more is "period" and still anachronistic for rendezvous. It becomes a real stretch of philosophy when one anachronism is chosen "superior" to another. I keep pointing these little details out as too often they soon become "correct" rather than just an acceptable compromise. John... At 09:12 AM 11/17/03, you wrote: >On 14 Nov 2003 12:20:24 -0600 John Kramer wrote > >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bedding > > >A hand cart is as anachronistic as my Pickup; some seem > >to think it looks better in camp. > >Right. But two-wheeled carts were not only period, but documented in >the rendezvous era. They were called by the french word 'charrette.' >Now, I don't think they had steel wheels though. > >Glenn Darilek >Iron Burner > > > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html If it ain't exactly right, it's wrong. john <kramer@kramerize.com> Take a look at all the prime plunder being auctioned for the benefit of the American Mountain Men http://amm-auction.com/ ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bedding Date: 17 Nov 2003 22:32:50 -0600 Ole, Naw, I'm sure we agreed on something else over the past 30 years. Can't remember what it was. One thing I didn't mention that is at least as important as bedding and something even Crazy Cyot might agree with me on is acclimation. When I was living on the trail I would refuse to accept even one nights lodging under a roof for fear of taking the edge off my acclimation. When you live on the trail every day over a long period you develop an ability to be comfortable over wide extremes of weather. When you only get a chance to live outdoors a few days at a time it takes more bedding to stay comfortable. Once you've had tick fever it also takes more to stay warm. John... At 09:07 AM 11/15/03, you wrote: >John, >Is this the first time we have agreed on something?. Thanks for the input, >and you are right a hand cart looks better than a pick up truck. >Ole >On Friday, November 14, 2003, at 11:20 AM, John Kramer wrote: > >> >>If you have three pack mules you have all the extra padding/bedding you >>can use. Each animal has at least one saddle blanket (epishemore) per >>animal. A saddle blanket is basically a folded blanket, thick pads of >>felted hair are also common and useful. An epishemore is a saddle >>blanket made from a buffalo robe. >> >>Add the above to your sleeping blankets and a tarp which covers a pack >>during the day and you've got pretty comfy sleeping no matter the weather. >> >>When I was on the trail I only had one pack animal plus my riding horse >>the padding from just two critters made a very comfortable bed along with >>my two blankets in very cold weather. Didn't have a thermometer or radio >>along so I really can't say how cold. Some nights a small fire warmed >>canvas, or a rock ledge, used as a leanto/reflector. A large dog is a >>great comfort if you don't have a Jill. >> >>My experience with hair-on hide has been less than wonderful. I've never >>broken down and bought a brain tan buffalo robe so on that I can't fairly >>comment. Lance Grabowski has cut up several for coats and vests and such >>so at least one of us was brave enough. I would think Crazy is right >>about it being too warm 363 days a year unless you were a teamster or a >>drover on the windswept plains. >> >>I can comment on commercial tan buffalo, bear, elk, sheep and deer. I >>have had excellent results with both real and faux braintan deer, elk and >>moose leather. >> >>MOST hair-on commercial tan hides have not properly neutralized the acids >>in the tanning process. Hence when used on the ground (or stored on a >>closet shelf in Missouri) they will absorb water and rot. >>The hollow hair of elk and deer never quits breaking, it never seems to >>thin out but the constant hair everywhere becomes old fast, it will even >>show up in your food. Hides are also heavy and more difficult to pack >>than blankets. All are a pleasure under you at night. I've had less >>rotting with commercial sheep than with deer, buffalo, elk and bear. >> >>I have two Hudson Bays I bought in the mid '70's they have served well >>many nights since. They are still warm and a part of my bedroll with the >>luxurious hand-loomed blankets I now enjoy. Perhaps mine are still warm >>and useful because they haven't been washed much. I do hang them in the >>hot sun for a day and beat them with a carpet beater every year or so. I >>have over a dozen blankets in my bedroll, I don't take all of them all of >>the time. >> >>Do not let anyone tell you the European military cot blankets are >>inferior they are smaller than a 4 point that's all, so were the blankets >>traded during the period. I have purchased and used several and find >>them to be of good quality, my winter leggings and some other gear is >>made from them. For $10 to $20 each they are a great value. >> >>If you want to wrap up in canvas consider that A 300 thread count >>Egyptian cotton sheet used in place of canvas breaks the wind as >>efficiently with much less weight. >> >>When you lay out your bed if you are using a four point under you, fold >>it lengthwise in quarters to increase warmth. A cot blanket is better >>folded in thirds: because it is smaller. If you have two blankets to >>place under you fold the first only lengthwise then fold the second again >>in half. This way (with 4 point blankets) you have 4 layers under your >>legs and feet and 12 layers under the trunk of your body. Wrap up in >>your sleeping blankets and canvas and you'll stay plenty warm. If you >>are wrapping canvas around you DO NOT use oil cloth or you will be wet, >>wet equals cold; particularly in humid areas. Canvas can often be used >>better as a reflector than as a wrap. >> >>It takes some bedding to stay comfortable in winter, survival can be done >>with a lot less. We are (in most instances) no longer able to practice >>old ways of woodcraft (bough beds and such) as it would denude areas we >>must share with others. Because we can't cut what we want every night it >>requires us to carry what we need. A toboggan is one practical choice: >>without snow a wheelbarrow (like Buck Connor uses) is another. Of course >>horses were the chosen method back then, but then this is now. Dog >>sleds, sledges, travois, knapsacks, primitive style packframe/chairs and >>many other quasi period methods are available to a clever mind. Just >>remember none are accurate portrayals they are expedients required >>because of time and circumstance. A hand cart is as anachronistic as my >>Pickup; some seem to think it looks better in camp. >> >>Ole has detailed what would be a practical and not uncommon bedroll of >>the period, yes it is a lot of weight but much of it would have been used >>first for other purposes. Mountain Men weren't backpackers, most of the time. >> >>Many years ago I was inspecting an old hotel in an out of the way >>location in Wyoming; down in storage there was a huge bundle of canvas, >>blankets, quilts, comforters, sheep skins and every other kind of thing >>you can imagine. When I asked what it was the manager explained it was a >>sheep herders bedroll that they were holding against room rent, when cold >>weather came he would redeem it. >> >>John... >> >> >>At 05:23 PM 11/12/03, you wrote: >>>No problem if you have three mules. >>>Don >>> >>>>Ole, >>>> >>>>What do you estimate the total weight to be of 1 Hudson bay, 1 Whitney, 2 >>>>Barron 5 point blankets wrapped with canvas, together with the addition >>>>of 3 >>>>Hudson bay's and 1 Whitney as a ground pad wrapped with Russian sheeting? >>>>Can you carry this or does it require some other means of transportation? >>>>It will surely keep you warm and dry, but the bulk and weight seem somewhat >>>>intimidating in my view, and I would assume that this set-up is not for a >>>>walk-in situation, or am I mistaken? >>>> >>>>Regards, >>>> >>>>Paul >>>> >>>> >>>> > Don, >>>> > For years I have used 1 hudson bay, 1 whitney, and 2 Barron 5 point >>>> > blankets wraped with canvas. >>>> > In the future I will use the same with the addition of 3 hudson bay's >>>> > and 1 whitney as a ground pad wraped with russian sheating. >>>> > Ole >>>> > On Tuesday, November 11, 2003, at 07:00 PM, Phyllis and Don Keas wrote: >>>> > >>>> > > Wool blankets have always done me very well. The coldest I have slept >>>> > > is 12 below and two Witneys. I did all right, but now I am older and >>>> > > plan on carrying three in the winter. Old age you know. Don >>>> > > >>>> > > On Monday, November 10, 2003 11:42 AM, roger lahti >>>> > > <amm1719@charter.net> wrote: >>>> > >> I got to agree with bb on bison robes being a pain if they get wet. >>>> > >> But I >>>> > >> suspect that, well I know my robe is warmer than an equivalent weight >>>> > >> of >>>> > >> wool blanket. To make the blankets warm at all you still need some >>>> > >> sort of >>>> > >> air barrier like a canvas bed roll to cut the air movement by the >>>> > >> blanket. >>>> > >> The robe comes with it's own barrier but it's not water repellent at >>>> > >> all. >>>> > >> Brain tan is very light though when done right with plenty of hide >>>> > >> shaving >>>> > >> to get it thin as possible. >>>> > >> >>>> > >> I still have good use for my wool blankets. >>>> > >> >>>> > >> Capt. Lahti >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >>> >>>If it ain't exactly right, it's wrong. >>>john <kramer@kramerize.com> >>> >>>Take a look at all the prime plunder being auctioned for the benefit of >>>the American Mountain Men >>>http://amm-auction.com/ >> >> >>---------------------- >>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html If it ain't exactly right, it's wrong. john <kramer@kramerize.com> Take a look at all the prime plunder being auctioned for the benefit of the American Mountain Men http://amm-auction.com/ ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Casapy123@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Looking for information on a gunmaker Date: 18 Nov 2003 01:40:32 EST --part1_fb.4a2c4209.2ceb18e0_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all, I am looking for information on a lock maker named "Schaller." The gun in question is a flintlock pistol with an octagon, rifled barrel 10 inches in length. That's about all the info I have. Thanks for your help, Jim Hardee, AMM #1676 P.O. Box 1228\ Quincy, CA 95971 (530) 283-4566 (H) (530) 283-3330 (W) --part1_fb.4a2c4209.2ceb18e0_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE= =3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">Hello all,<BR> <BR> I am looking for information on a lock maker named "Schaller." The gun in qu= estion is a flintlock pistol with an octagon, rifled barrel 10 inches in len= gth. That's about all the info I have.<BR> <BR> Thanks for your help,<BR> <BR> Jim Hardee, AMM #1676<BR> P.O. Box 1228\<BR> Quincy, CA 95971<BR> (530) 283-4566 (H)<BR> (530) 283-3330 (W)</FONT></HTML> --part1_fb.4a2c4209.2ceb18e0_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Looking for information on a gunmaker Date: 18 Nov 2003 11:53:48 -0500 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ----__JNP_000_67c5.3710.5840 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit jim there as a "Schaller" that lived and worked in wichita kansas from about 1940 to about 1972 when he died ---he was not a gunmaker but a lockmaker and all his locks were hand made and machined he used no castings in his locks---I have 3 guns with his locks and they are marked on the inside of the plate---his locks were not cheep and cost about $100 back in the early 70's---the flint ones were exceptional and i have one that he made that is similar to a ders egg with a roller frizzen I also have a percussion one on a hawken pistol that is the same as the one in john beards book---he was a cadalac lockmaker of his time--- there was also a gunmaker with the same name from penn. that is dated about 1820 --1850---dont have the exact page but he is in dillen and also in thoughts of the kentuckey in the golden age---just a couple of one liners robin might have more info as he has a good early reference book of english and foreign makers---I have included him in this note to the Mt Man chat so that he can respond to you direct "Hawk" ----__JNP_000_67c5.3710.5840 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY bottomMargin=3D0 leftMargin=3D3 topMargin=3D0 rightMargin=3D3> <DIV></DIV> <DIV>jim</DIV> <DIV>there as a <FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"Schaller" that lived and = worked in=20 wichita kansas from about 1940 to about 1972 when he died ---he was not a=20 gunmaker but a lockmaker and all his locks were hand made and machined he = used=20 no castings in his locks---I have 3 guns with his locks and they are marked= on=20 the inside of the plate---his locks were not cheep and cost about $100 back= in=20 the early 70's---the flint ones were exceptional and i have one that he = made=20 that is similar to a ders egg with a roller frizzen I also have a = percussion one=20 on a hawken pistol that is the same as the one in john beards book---he was= a=20 cadalac lockmaker of his time---</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>there was also a gunmaker with the same = name from=20 penn. that is dated about 1820 --1850---dont have the exact page but he is = in=20 dillen and also in thoughts of the kentuckey in the golden age---just a = couple=20 of one liners</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>robin might have more info as he has = a good=20 early reference book of english and foreign makers---I have included him in= this=20 note to the Mt Man chat so that he can respond to you direct</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"Hawk"<BR></DIV></BODY></HTML> ----__JNP_000_67c5.3710.5840-- ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: MtMan-List: "Schaller Date: 18 Nov 2003 16:04:37 -0500 jim---contact me off line I have the input from robin on your gun---it is a attachment "Hawk" ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bedding & Trail tough Date: 18 Nov 2003 19:00:07 -0700 (MST) John, You got that right! Something we all forgot to mention, getting trail tough or acclimation as you said. When I was 18 and right out of highschool, myself and another trapping buddy took a 3 month canoe trip in the Missouri woods hunting and trapping the whole time. This was long before I was into primitive trekking, we thought living in an 8x8 wedge tent with a small woodstove was primitive enough! Anyway, we got trail tough and seldom wore our heavy coats, if ever. We also got used to only a single candle flame for light. A jar candle we poured as needed. Neither John or I will ever forget the first time, after several month's on the river, when we stood under a single ceiling lightbulb not believing how bright it was! Squinting like miners emerging from a mine. Even standing inside a building for the first time after several month's was an interesting feeling. A hunter senses become more accute after a week or so on the trail too. During that Canoe trip I once found a scrap of newspaper blowing along some railroad tracks I was hunting and instantly sat down and read every scrap of it, both sides, I was so starved for reading material!!! I then probably used it for something. You reminded me of all this. I used to tell people,"You cannot even begin to understand what it is like to be a woodsmen until you have spent at least two month's on the trail". beaverboy > Ole, > One thing I didn't mention that is at least as important as bedding and > something even Crazy Cyot might agree with me on is acclimation. > > When I was living on the trail I would refuse to accept even one nights > lodging under a roof for fear of taking the edge off my acclimation. When > you live on the trail every day over a long period you develop an ability > to be comfortable over wide extremes of weather. When you only get a > chance to live outdoors a few days at a time it takes more bedding to stay > comfortable. Once you've had tick fever it also takes more to stay warm. > > John... > > > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "don secondine" <dmdhsecondine@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Looking for information on a gunmaker Date: 19 Nov 2003 02:46:33 +0000 Are you referring to SCHILLINGER? He was the only lock maker I know of that produced locks that you describe. They were jewels that you could put on a rifle or let your wife wear them around her neck. We called him Dutch. A good friend and craftsman. He made sights for hawken rifles with the same amount of care. Don Secondine >From: hawknest4@juno.com >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >CC: robinh@combro.co.uk >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Looking for information on a gunmaker >Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:53:48 -0500 > >jim >there as a "Schaller" that lived and worked in wichita kansas from about >1940 to about 1972 when he died ---he was not a gunmaker but a lockmaker >and all his locks were hand made and machined he used no castings in his >locks---I have 3 guns with his locks and they are marked on the inside of >the plate---his locks were not cheep and cost about $100 back in the >early 70's---the flint ones were exceptional and i have one that he made >that is similar to a ders egg with a roller frizzen I also have a >percussion one on a hawken pistol that is the same as the one in john >beards book---he was a cadalac lockmaker of his time--- > >there was also a gunmaker with the same name from penn. that is dated >about 1820 --1850---dont have the exact page but he is in dillen and also >in thoughts of the kentuckey in the golden age---just a couple of one >liners > >robin might have more info as he has a good early reference book of >english and foreign makers---I have included him in this note to the Mt >Man chat so that he can respond to you direct > >"Hawk" _________________________________________________________________ Groove on the latest from the hot new rock groups! Get downloads, videos, and more here. http://special.msn.com/entertainment/wiredformusic.armx ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James and Sue Stone <jandsstone@earthlink.net> Subject: MtMan-List: trail hardened Date: 18 Nov 2003 20:47:07 -0700 It doesn't take a lifetime in the wilderness to get to where one is comfortable in a wide variety of conditions. When I worked in the Pacific NW woods, spending 12 hour days outside six days a week, I actually got to where I didn't care if it was raining or not. This in a location along the Oregon Coast where we received 120 inches of rain annually. Then I moved to eastern Idaho, about where Lewis and Clark punched through the Divide with Sacajawea--by the current town of Salmon. It gets a lot colder there than on the Oregon Coast. We used wood heat a lot. When fall was upon us and the temps first hit 23 degrees F., we bundled up like Nanook of the North and scurried around being firewood into the house. After a winter with several days hitting lows of 30-below zero F., and lots of "highs" below zero or ten above(during milder days), the temperature "climbed" to that 23 Degrees F. again in the spring. In contrast to our autumn behavior, we were outside in our shirtsleeves bringing in firewood. I'd even hazard to say we felt even warmer in the spring at that temp than in the fall! Sparks ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: MtMan-List: A Buck at last! Date: 22 Nov 2003 09:45:08 -0700 (MST) Dear List, I got my buck last night! After 22 mornings or evenings at my stand and roughly 35 hours in it (including one -18 below morning!) I had a good shot on a small 4x4 whitetail buck chasing a doe. He stopped roughly 25 yards away from me at broadside. The ball past clean through him and took out the lungs. He died after a short run. This makes the fifth buck in five years with my fusee, all were taken with one shot through the chest. Had many does and spikes walk very near me but wanted a little bigger buck. Saw two good size bucks too but they never gave me a shot. Could have held out for a bigger one but times running out and I haven't had a good nights rest in 3 weeks! Saw lots of wildlife while on my stand all those hours. Had thousands of geese, both Snow and Canadians, fly over me everyday some only 20 feet above. Saw Trumpeter Swans, Red Fox, lots of song birds, pheasant and some ones Black Lab came by twice. Though not my biggest buck he is another true trophy to me. When you can kill any deer with one shot from a flintlock consider it a trophy. It's all about the quality of the hunt. That buck never knew what hit him and he died quickly. 1 shot-1 kill, thats what it's all about. At least to me. I can finally sleep in til 6:00 AM! Good luck to all of you down the trail, bb ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ben" <beb1@sisna.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: A Buck at last! Date: 22 Nov 2003 11:47:11 -0700 Way to go Beaverboy! I agree with you. The hunt is the thing...moreso now that I'm old and stove up than it was twenty years ago when I could run up and down the mountains. I love sitting in the early dawn, just as the world wakes up, listening to the first chirp of the birds, and rustle of the ground squirrels, watching as the darkness fades to first light. I used to hunt black powder, then switched to archery when Utah made us pick a season, now I'm old and weak and my shoulder won't take the stress of an eighty pound draw weight bow, I'm switching back. Gonna get me a flinter. I've been paying careful attention to all the posts and have a pretty good idea of what I want. Now I have to scrape the dollars to get it. But that's half the fun...if everything came easy it wouldn't be any satisfaction at all. Glad you had a good hunt......and wishing you all many more. Ben ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2003 9:45 AM > Dear List, > I got my buck last night! After 22 mornings or evenings at my stand and > roughly 35 hours in it (including one -18 below morning!) I had a good > shot on a small 4x4 whitetail buck chasing a doe. He stopped roughly 25 > yards away from me at broadside. > The ball past clean through him and took out the lungs. He died > after a short run. > This makes the fifth buck in five years with my fusee, all were taken > with one shot through the chest. > Had many does and spikes walk very near me but wanted a little bigger > buck. Saw two good size bucks too but they never gave me a shot. Could > have held out for a bigger one but times running out and I haven't had > a good nights rest in 3 weeks! > Saw lots of wildlife while on my stand all those hours. Had thousands > of geese, both Snow and Canadians, fly over me everyday some only 20 > feet above. Saw Trumpeter Swans, Red Fox, lots of song birds, pheasant > and some ones Black Lab came by twice. > Though not my biggest buck he is another true trophy to me. When you > can kill any deer with one shot from a flintlock consider it a trophy. > It's all about the quality of the hunt. That buck never knew what hit > him and he died quickly. 1 shot-1 kill, thats what it's all about. At > least to me. > I can finally sleep in til 6:00 AM! > Good luck to all of you down the trail, > bb > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Candi Smith" <twostitch@archersminiatures.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: A Buck at last! Date: 22 Nov 2003 12:42:10 -0800 Congrats!! It is a trick to get one...any deer that is. I got my doe just last week with 3 days to go in our season with my Mortimer. This was my first deer and am I ever proud even if it is a doe. Glad you were able to make meat. Twostitch/Candi ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2003 8:45 AM > Dear List, > I got my buck last night! After 22 mornings or evenings at my stand and > roughly 35 hours in it (including one -18 below morning!) I had a good > shot on a small 4x4 whitetail buck chasing a doe. He stopped roughly 25 > yards away from me at broadside. > The ball past clean through him and took out the lungs. He died > after a short run. > This makes the fifth buck in five years with my fusee, all were taken > with one shot through the chest. > Had many does and spikes walk very near me but wanted a little bigger > buck. Saw two good size bucks too but they never gave me a shot. Could > have held out for a bigger one but times running out and I haven't had > a good nights rest in 3 weeks! > Saw lots of wildlife while on my stand all those hours. Had thousands > of geese, both Snow and Canadians, fly over me everyday some only 20 > feet above. Saw Trumpeter Swans, Red Fox, lots of song birds, pheasant > and some ones Black Lab came by twice. > Though not my biggest buck he is another true trophy to me. When you > can kill any deer with one shot from a flintlock consider it a trophy. > It's all about the quality of the hunt. That buck never knew what hit > him and he died quickly. 1 shot-1 kill, thats what it's all about. At > least to me. > I can finally sleep in til 6:00 AM! > Good luck to all of you down the trail, > bb > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: A Buck at last! Date: 23 Nov 2003 06:47:07 -0700 (MST) Twostitch/Candi Your first deer?! Thats great! And with a muzzleloader. Congratulations to you! Anyones first deer is much bigger deal than my hunt. Enjoy all those fine steaks and hamburger! Have a nice Thanksgiving. bb > Congrats!! > It is a trick to get one...any deer that is. > I got my doe just last week with 3 days to go in our season with my > Mortimer. > This was my first deer and am I ever proud even if it is a doe. > Glad you were able to make meat. > > Twostitch/Candi > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <beaverboy@sofast.net> > To: <hist_text@xmission.com> > Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2003 8:45 AM > Subject: MtMan-List: A Buck at last! > > >> Dear List, >> I got my buck last night! After 22 mornings or evenings at my stand >> and >> roughly 35 hours in it (including one -18 below morning!) I had a good >> shot on a small 4x4 whitetail buck chasing a doe. He stopped roughly 25 >> yards away from me at broadside. >> The ball past clean through him and took out the lungs. He died >> after a short run. >> This makes the fifth buck in five years with my fusee, all were taken >> with one shot through the chest. >> Had many does and spikes walk very near me but wanted a little bigger >> buck. Saw two good size bucks too but they never gave me a shot. Could >> have held out for a bigger one but times running out and I haven't had >> a good nights rest in 3 weeks! >> Saw lots of wildlife while on my stand all those hours. Had thousands >> of geese, both Snow and Canadians, fly over me everyday some only 20 >> feet above. Saw Trumpeter Swans, Red Fox, lots of song birds, pheasant >> and some ones Black Lab came by twice. >> Though not my biggest buck he is another true trophy to me. When you >> can kill any deer with one shot from a flintlock consider it a trophy. >> It's all about the quality of the hunt. That buck never knew what hit >> him and he died quickly. 1 shot-1 kill, thats what it's all about. At >> least to me. >> I can finally sleep in til 6:00 AM! >> Good luck to all of you down the trail, >> bb >> >> >> ---------------------- >> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >> > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "roger lahti" <amm1719@charter.net> Subject: MtMan-List: An old man's hunt Date: 24 Nov 2003 00:10:58 -0800 The old man had done this many times before but each time is special and this trip into the woods after meat was no different. He carried a long rifle, flint, .62 cal. throwing a .60 ball in front of about 85 grains of 3fg GOEX. He had used other powders over the years but always came back to this brand and this granulation. It seemed to work best in most of his guns. He had always favored the round ball for it's sure killing power on game and the flint lock for it's reliability. He'd tried the new fangled percussion guns but didn't like them. It had been warm the last time he went out to make meat, back in early Oct. He'd gotten a nice mule deer doe and it was hot work taking care of the meat before it spoiled. Not unusually warm because an Indian summer is to be expected in this part of the NW interior in the first weeks of October. But now it was November and it had gotten very cold very fast. Not killing cold but the small streams had frozen and the larger Palouse River that he hunted near had ice forming on it. Maybe 20 degrees and dropping. 2 below had been reported at night in the river bottoms this far up from the Snake. There had been snow the night before, not a lot but enough to track. This evening's hunt promised to be a cold wait for an animal to give herself up, but it would be done if he were to eat well this winter. His usual habit was to walk slowly through the hunting grounds, it was not his nature to stand still or set. Got stove up too easily doing that these days. He pulled the warm Canadian cap down over his ears and the collar of his Great Coat around his neck and slowly made his way down the steep slope to the old orchard below. One careful step at a time on the new snow and the dry grass it only slightly covered. This was not the time to make noise nor worse to slip and hurt himself. Not at his age. Didn't bounce back like when he was young. It took a quarter of an hour to work down the 100 yards to the edge of the first level of the old orchard. He stood for a long time carefully watching the openings between the big pines that had encroached and the brush that was once fine fruit trees. This country had a lot of history in it and his people had come from here on his mothers side. It felt good to be back wandering country that his great granddad and his mother's father's brothers had wandered close to 100 years ago. He watched the thickets off to the sides, the little deer trails that wound their way through, looking for movement or something out of place. A shape. A part of a body. After a long number of minutes it was time to slip a bit further down the hill past that first level to the short slope between the two. He found a spot where he could see across the level just pasted and down into openings on the next level below. More cold minutes pass and the light fades even more. It had been 2:30 when he started down the slope and it now was past 3:30. There was hardly an hour of light left. Movement. Off to the right. Legs, just legs but a deer none-the-less moving his way. He stiffened in anticipation only to see it turn away before coming into full view. More waiting, perhaps another slow shuffle to the left to open up a better view of the clearing below. Just a couple feet to the left, stop and wait again. Movement! Now off to his left on the upper level, same level as his head. A doe looking his way, not fully in the open but clearly not a buck. Looks like a fawn from this spring but it turns away and fades into the brush. Stand still and wait again. Minutes pass. It's cold, not too cold with all he has on but cold. And it's not getting any lighter. Thanks to the snow there is more "perceived light" but with clouds and the time of year it will be dark soon. There! On the lower level maybe 50 yards away, perhaps a bit more, a doe walks out from his left. Is it the fawn he saw? No this is a nice fat mature whitetail doe. She feeds along in a slow walk moving into the open not suspecting for an instant that he is waiting for just the right moment in time. He's already thumbed the cock back while holding the front trigger back so there has been no "click,click" of the tumbler and sear. There's a fresh flint in the jaws held with a piece of brain tan. He's been practicing his shooting when he's had time. The game deserved nothing less than his best shot. Everything that can be done in anticipation of this moment has been done. Now to play it out. Almost perfect position now. The rifle comes up and the trigger is set. The sights are carefully lined up mid chest just behind the front leg. Hold and squeeze and its done. The doe stagers a bit in her walk and then runs towards the brush to the right. He follows her with his eyes till she seemingly disappears but there is a jumble of motion just for a moment and then silence. The old orchard had come alive at the shot and her running with several other deer he had not even seen, but it seems unimportant now. Those other deer were irrelevant. This was a dance just for the two of them. The rifle is quickly reloaded and reprimed from the buffalo horn he wears at his side and a bullet board hung from his neck before he moves. Down to where she had been when he shot and there are the tracks in the snow but no blood. A few yards on up her trail where she had to go by a large pine and over a tangle of old fence he finds the first blood spatters. The trail for the next few yards is easy to follow, not from the blood but from the churned up pine needles and snow as she tried to gain the safety of the brush. There, just behind that bush she lays finished. The big ball had gone all the way through and broken one leg. It was a matter of a few seconds from shot to death. The way it should be. Now the work begins. As seems to always be his habit he cuts his thumb as he makes the first cut dressing the carcass almost as though their blood should mingle in reverence and Thanks Giving for the life taken and the life renewed. A quick movement up to the neck under the skin and then carefully through the abdominal wall and along the sternum and ribs on one side to open up the body cavity. Another careful cut at the neck and the windpipe is severed along with the food tube. No need to make a messy cut across the throat. The deer has bled out internally from that always fatal "through the lights" shot he has used so many times before. A few more simple cuts to trim away the diaphragm and then around the vent to loosen it's inner pinnings and everything that will be left to "Coyote the Trickster" comes free. Some split the pelvic bone but this is un-needed. Just opens up meat to dirt and hair. The blood is used to wash out the body cavity and its time to prepare for the trip out of the woods. A piece of line is hitched at it's middle around the lower jaw just behind the front teeth, then around the forelegs to draw them together and then it's two loose ends are fastened to a short stout piece of pine found laying handily nearby. His partner has come to help but the gutting is done swiftly and only one knife is needed. Working together they easily drag the deer out of the woods. A quick stop to thank the landowner for his generosity in letting them hunt and they head for home. At the house the deer is hauled up by the hind legs with a pulley and gimble after a quick removal of the front and hind legs. The old man knows that certain things need to be done in a certain order. A circle cut around each leg just below each "knee" in front and below the hocks in back exposes a joint that he can break over his knee to finish with cuts of the tendons. No need of a saw. Starting slits are made down the backs of each leg to the base of the tail and to the chest to give the hide it's best shape, a square. With fisted hands and a good grip on the hide it is "stripped" off in no time, hardly having to resort to a knife, only cutting where connecting tissue will stubbornly not let the hide pull free. The hide is stripped around the neck almost at the head and a clever cut around the neck just below the head and it can be twisted breaking the connection to the body, then a cut to sever those tendons and the job is done. Time for a relaxing drink, a hot meal and to bed. Tomorrow is devoted to pheasants and Hungarian Partridge. Today was the deer's day and it is over. YMOS Capt. Lahti' ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bob Funkhouser" <rmfunkhouser@vigoris.net> Subject: MtMan-List: An Old Man's Hunt Date: 24 Nov 2003 10:16:40 -0600 Hello Capt., Congratulations on your success and especially your sharing of your time and talents with us. I relived your adventure. Good luck on your upcoming hunts. Regards, blackknight ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "roger lahti" <amm1719@charter.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: An Old Man's Hunt Date: 24 Nov 2003 09:39:07 -0800 Thanks blackknight and good hunting to you. Capt. Lahti' ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Frank Fusco" <Rifleman1776@cox-internet.com> Subject: MtMan-List: parfleche-s ? Date: 24 Nov 2003 13:57:00 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C3B292.D4E56A80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For the Frenchies out there a language question. Is: "parfleche" OK = as it is for plural. Or is it correctly spelled: "parfleches"? Frank ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C3B292.D4E56A80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1276" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV> For the Frenchies out there a language question. = Is:=20 "parfleche" OK as it is for plural. Or is it correctly = spelled:</DIV> <DIV> "parfleches"?</DIV> <DIV>Frank</DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C3B292.D4E56A80-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wynn Ormond" <cheyenne@pcu.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Elk hunt Date: 24 Nov 2003 19:53:15 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01C3B2C4.995ABA60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I had someone ask me about my up coming late season cow elk hunt and I = described my plan as best I could. I wondered if anyone would like to = critic my theories. What you have to do is find an elk, they either are where you find them = or they are not where you looked, if they are where you find them then = sneak up on it and lift its tail to see if it has an inny or an outty. = If it has an inny it is a cow. You can check further by locating the = nippples on the milk bags but that is not required. You then sneak back = out to a range of about 1000 yards to make it sporting and you crack a = rock against a piece of metal. This is supposed to make a spark which = is supposed to fall into a pan which is supposed be full of powder which = is supposed to ignite the powder which is supposed to be in the barrel = which will, I garen-ass -tee thrust a round piece of lead really really = fast. The piece of lead is supposed to strike the elk in a vital = locality which is supposed to cause death. Na its pretty much a piece of cake. Wynn=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01C3B2C4.995ABA60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I had someone ask me about my up coming = late season=20 cow elk hunt and I described my plan as best I could. I wondered = if anyone=20 would like to critic my theories.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>What you have to do is find an elk, they either are = where you=20 find them or they are not where you looked, if they are where = you=20 find them then sneak up on it and lift its tail to see if it has an inny = or an=20 outty. If it has an inny it is a cow. You can check further = by=20 locating the nippples on the milk bags but that is not required. = You then=20 sneak back out to a range of about 1000 yards to make it sporting and = you crack=20 a rock against a piece of metal. This is supposed to make a spark = which is=20 supposed to fall into a pan which is supposed be full of powder which is = supposed to ignite the powder which is supposed to be in the barrel = which will,=20 I garen-ass -tee thrust a round piece of lead really really fast. = The=20 piece of lead is supposed to strike the elk in a vital locality which is = supposed to cause death.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Na its pretty much a piece of cake.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Wynn </FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV></FONT></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01C3B2C4.995ABA60-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sean Boushie" <flintlocknfur@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: parfleche-s ? Date: 25 Nov 2003 15:37:44 +0000 Parfleche it self is not singular or plural, but "parfleches" is most certianly not right. Most words in french are either masculine or feminine corresponding with le or la. "parfleche" tanslated is "to parry (or turn aside) arrows" which obviuusly has nothing to do with the bag we relate it to. (another story) Based on nothing more than my guess and no mention of the complete word "parfleche" in my dictionary I'm going to bet on "le parfleche". If you want to make it plural add an s to the le or "les parfleche". The "bags" or "the bags of rawhide" Anybody want to tell me I'm wrong? >From: "Frank Fusco" <Rifleman1776@cox-internet.com> >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >To: "list AMM" <hist_text@xmission.com> >Subject: MtMan-List: parfleche-s ? >Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:57:00 -0600 > > For the Frenchies out there a language question. Is: "parfleche" OK >as it is for plural. Or is it correctly spelled: > "parfleches"? >Frank _________________________________________________________________ From the hottest toys to tips on keeping fit this winter, youÆll find a range of helpful holiday info here. http://special.msn.com/network/happyholidays.armx ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sean Boushie" <flintlocknfur@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: parfleche-s ? stand corrected Date: 25 Nov 2003 15:44:51 +0000 I stand corrected. Of course it depends if your speaking english or Francais. http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/dictionary/DictionaryResults.aspx?refid=1861723816 >From: "Sean Boushie" <flintlocknfur@hotmail.com> >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: parfleche-s ? >Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:37:44 +0000 > >Parfleche it self is not singular or plural, but "parfleches" is most >certianly not right. Most words in french are either masculine or feminine >corresponding with le or la. "parfleche" tanslated is "to parry (or turn >aside) arrows" which obviuusly has nothing to do with the bag we relate it >to. (another story) Based on nothing more than my guess and no mention of >the complete word "parfleche" in my dictionary I'm going to bet on "le >parfleche". If you want to make it plural add an s to the le or "les >parfleche". The "bags" or "the bags of rawhide" Anybody want to tell me >I'm wrong? > >>From: "Frank Fusco" <Rifleman1776@cox-internet.com> >>Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >>To: "list AMM" <hist_text@xmission.com> >>Subject: MtMan-List: parfleche-s ? >>Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:57:00 -0600 >> >> For the Frenchies out there a language question. Is: "parfleche" OK >>as it is for plural. Or is it correctly spelled: >> "parfleches"? >>Frank > >_________________________________________________________________ >From the hottest toys to tips on keeping fit this winter, youÆll find a >range of helpful holiday info here. >http://special.msn.com/network/happyholidays.armx > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html _________________________________________________________________ Say ôgoodbyeö to busy signals and slow downloads with a high-speed Internet connection! Prices start at less than $1 a day average. https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.) ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Samuel Keller <wolftalk_98@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: hand carts Date: 25 Nov 2003 21:04:00 -0800 (PST) I found a good site on the Red River Cart. http://www.info.co.clay.mn.us/History/red_river_carts.htm --- John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com> wrote: > Two wheel horse carts are quite different than > Pioneer hand carts which are > quite different than two wheel dog carts differing > from two wheel goat > carts. Then we have wagons and buggies and other 4 > wheel conveyance. Some > wagons made it to rendezvous were they two or four > wheel? > > The more common two wheel cart we know was used > during and for the fur > trade though questionable at rendezvous would be the > Red River carts. Yes > steel wheels would be most inappropriate on those. > > Wheelbarrows, sledges, sleighs and a whole lot more > is "period" and still > anachronistic for rendezvous. It becomes a real > stretch of philosophy when > one anachronism is chosen "superior" to another. I > keep pointing these > little details out as too often they soon become > "correct" rather than just > an acceptable compromise. > > John... > > > > At 09:12 AM 11/17/03, you wrote: > >On 14 Nov 2003 12:20:24 -0600 John Kramer wrote > > >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bedding > > > > >A hand cart is as anachronistic as my Pickup; > some seem > > >to think it looks better in camp. > > > >Right. But two-wheeled carts were not only period, > but documented in > >the rendezvous era. They were called by the french > word 'charrette.' > >Now, I don't think they had steel wheels though. > > > >Glenn Darilek > >Iron Burner > > > > > > > > > >---------------------- > >hist_text list info: > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > If it ain't exactly right, it's wrong. > john <kramer@kramerize.com> > > Take a look at all the prime plunder being auctioned > for the benefit of the > American Mountain Men > http://amm-auction.com/ > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Stuart Family" <EJSRB@worldnet.att.net> Subject: FW: MtMan-List: Banff Mountain Film Festival Date: 25 Nov 2003 23:00:35 -0700 Sorry I am a little slow at getting my mail...but remember that not all those who live in Montana dislike the wolves. There is a place for everything. I just got back from elk hunting and spent some time worrying about the mountain lion that was tracking the deer and elk in the area. This is not the first time they have been around at the same time as I have been. With some effort on everyone's part, there is definitely room for everything. Something has to help the poor farmer/rancher that is dealing with a huge crop damage issue. ED -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of beaverboy@sofast.net Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 11:55 PM Dear List, Went to the (traveling) Banff Mountain Film Festival tonight! A hunting season tradition for me! If you ever get a chance to see this traveling film show, go!! Extreme skiing, kayaking, biking, unicycles, etc... Incredible!!!! These young whipper snappers are filled with the same spirit as the original Mountain Men and doing it in the mountains! This year wasn't as great as the usual but they had a great film about a Tibetan nomad family. It is amazing how similar they were (are) to North American indians but still living the life as well as they could. One year they showed a film about a Inuit man living on the ice, a great film!!! The only film I didn't care for this year was about the wolf reintroduction in Idaho (a sore topic for Montanan's as well). It was a clearly (tilted one side anyway) pro-wolf film and didn't get a great applause when finished. Maybe it was too close to home. I almost booed it. Their side has a hard time dealing with the realities of life and death in the great outdoors. They even brought up the terrible "leghold trap" the same trap that caught some of the wolves they reintroduced! Off the topic a little but hey!, it did have Mountain in the title and trapping! Great evening! beaverboy ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Stuart Family" <EJSRB@worldnet.att.net> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Cleaning a water bottle Date: 25 Nov 2003 23:00:33 -0700 Also, you can remove most of any bad smell or taste (especially from plastic) by placing a small about of vanilla on a paper towel and then closing it inside the container. Let it sit for a couple of days and it will make things much better. Ed Stuart > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Dunc > Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 3:05 AM > To: Recipient list suppressed > Subject: MtMan-List: Cleaning a water bottle > > > If you have a water bottle ( plastic or metal) or maybe a coffee > pot which > has been forgotten and got a bit stinky,stained or mouldy,or even > a crusty > old cup, a good way to clean it is to use the sterilizer tablets used to > clean baby bottles, I have found one to two tablets in hot water > will clean > a water bottle spotless in a couple of days soaking.These tablets are > obviously non toxic but the do have a slight bleach smell which may need > to be rinsed out of a coffee or tea pot. > > Cheers Dunc > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Allen Hall <allenhall@srv.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Skin that Buffalo! Date: 26 Nov 2003 16:21:04 -0700 Hello, There are now more Buffalo are available for individuals to "hunt", than there have been since the 1880's probably. Anyway here's a tip for you. If you go and get a buffalo, be sure and skin it immediately! Buffalo hide retains heat, and even if the critter is gutted and it's really cold outside, you need to skin the buffalo. I just talked to a friend last night and he told me that he shot a 7 year old bull with his trade gun. The weather out was really cold, he put the bull in the back of the pickup and transported it home. Cold all the way. The next day he took it to the shop to skin it......well, the meat at the front was still steaming. He lost most of the front end of the bull. Just a note so you don't end up down that same trail. Allen in Fort Hall Country ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: FW: MtMan-List: Banff Mountain Film Festival Date: 26 Nov 2003 17:04:11 -0700 (MST) I just hope the wolves eat the deer of the Montanans that like them. The government is already killing wolves they planted. A huge success! Yes, for the government trappers who get to trap wolves and shoot them and collect a fine government paycheck in the process. Job security? Plant wolves, then when they start to eat dogs, cattle, and too many elk calves (which they will always do) go out and trap and airplane them!! Then do it all over again. What a job! Where do I apply? I truly hope the wolf deal works out. If it doesn't, the elk, deer and bighorn will pay the price. And the bleeding heart public (in Kalispell, Missoula etc and even other states!) will never allow us to hunt and trap them like the Mt. Fish & Duck boys promised us after they became established. I honestly hope it works out because I like hunting deer. But it's not looking too good, so far. Sean, whats your view on the wolves? Good luck hunting, I hope you fill your tags Ed. bb ...but remember that not all > those who live in Montana dislike the wolves. There is a place for > everything. > > Dear List, > Went to the (traveling) Banff Mountain Film Festival tonight! A hunting > season tradition for me! If you ever get a chance to see this traveling > film show, go!! Extreme skiing, kayaking, biking, unicycles, etc... > Incredible!!!! These young whipper snappers are filled with the same > spirit as the original Mountain Men and doing it in the mountains! > This year wasn't as great as the usual but they had a great film about > a Tibetan nomad family. It is amazing how similar they were (are) to > North American indians but still living the life as well as they could. > One year they showed a film about a Inuit man living on the ice, a > great film!!! > The only film I didn't care for this year was about the wolf > reintroduction in Idaho (a sore topic for Montanan's as well). It was a > clearly (tilted one side anyway) pro-wolf film and didn't get a great > applause when finished. Maybe it was too close to home. I almost booed > it. Their side has a hard time dealing with the realities of life and > death in the great outdoors. They even brought up the terrible "leghold > trap" the same trap that caught some of the wolves they reintroduced! > Off the topic a little but hey!, it did have Mountain in the title and > trapping! Great evening! > beaverboy > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "roger lahti" <amm1719@charter.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Skin that Buffalo! Date: 26 Nov 2003 17:29:08 -0800 Thanks for the tip Allen. Same applies to any animal even small critters like birds. They at least need to be field dressed (the guts pulled out). But deer, elk, etc. will all go bad over night if you don't take care of them. And the bigger the critter the more critical it is. Thanks for the timely reminder. Capt. Lahti' ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Skin that Buffalo! Date: 26 Nov 2003 21:59:04 EST Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/26/2003 3:22:21 PM Pacific Standard Time, allenhall@srv.net writes: Anyway here's a tip for you. Ifyou go and get a buffalo, be sure and skin it immediately! >> Thanks Allen.... The last one Bead and I shot, we had the hide off even before we gutted em..... think we were more interested in a good clean robe than the meat. This next buffalo hunt in Kansas, (with 29 square miles of range, it should be a hunt) I think Buck said came with "skinners". After I work my magic, I plan on kicking back with a jug of Jack, and just supervise them boys with the knife...<G> Ymos, Magpie Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML><HEAD> <META charset=3DUTF-8 http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charse= t=3Dutf-8"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2730.1700" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff= f"> <DIV>In a message dated 11/26/2003 3:22:21 PM Pacific Standard Time, allenha= ll@srv.net writes:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20= 2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>Anyway here's a tip for you. Ifyou go an= d get a buffalo, be sure and skin it immediately! >></FONT></BLOC= KQUOTE> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks Allen.... The last one Bead and I shot, we had the hide off even= before we gutted em..... think we were more interested in a good clean robe= than the meat. </DIV> <DIV>This next buffalo hunt in Kansas, (with 29 square miles of range, it&nb= sp;should be a hunt) I think Buck said came with "skinners". After I wo= rk my magic, I plan on kicking back with a jug of Jack, and just superv= ise them boys with the knife...<G></DIV> <DIV>Ymos,</DIV> <DIV>Magpie</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML> ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" <admiller@citynet.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: An Old Man's Hunt Date: 27 Nov 2003 00:40:50 -0500 DAMN fine story, Capt... enjoyed it VERY much. Congrats on making meat. Miussed the first few days here in WV due to daughter getting married in Las Vegas. That girl has NOT got her priorities straight!! *grins* ... Many more days left though and I hope to be lucky. Already got one, but that was with the .270, and not BP... Regards, Ad ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "roger lahti" <amm1719@charter.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: An Old Man's Hunt Date: 27 Nov 2003 09:46:53 -0800 Thanks Ad. .270 !!!!!!!!!!!!! Somebody get a rope! <G> Capt. Lahti' ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" <admiller@citynet.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: An Old Man's Hunt Date: 27 Nov 2003 12:58:59 -0500 HEY!! BP ain't started here yet!! ;p;p *grins* I got a nice .50 Taos flinter all ready to go... BP here in WV is 15-20 Dec... Regards, Ad > Thanks Ad. .270 !!!!!!!!!!!!! Somebody get a rope! <G> > > Capt. Lahti' ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" <admiller@citynet.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Happy Thanksgiving Date: 27 Nov 2003 13:14:40 -0500 From my family to yours, we hope that all of you have a WONDERFUL and safe Thanksgiving... Regards, Ad and Vicki Miller Alderson, WV ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: MtMan-List: Happy Thanksgiving! Date: 27 Nov 2003 11:17:41 -0700 (MST) Dear List, I hope everyone is having a wonderful Thanksgiving! I went to the woods behind the house this morning hoping to add a fresh pheasant to my wild spring gobbler roasting in the oven. Got my shot! And missed him clean with the fusee!!! A beautiful crisp clear morning in the woods with an inch of old squeaky cold snow under every footstep. 6 degrees above and hardly a slight breeze at all. I started the hunt by just sitting and listening. I then did a low rabbit distress call for any Red Drifters nearby. None appeared so minutes later rattled some and grunted to see what might show up. Had a small whitetail buck come by. Finally watched the beautiful sunrise and gave thanks. Walked all over the back 70 and jumped 6 pheasant and missed the one shot I got. Couldn't understand why my neighbor wasn't on his stand on such a wonderful morning to hunt. Must be only one reason for that, he filled his tag. Sure enough during my pheasant hunt I came across a fresh drag trail in the snow where someone dragged out a deer to the tracks of a rig, probably yesterday. Good for him. Found two rat dens in the frozen marsh. Sneaked up to them on the ice then thumped them with my foot to hear the muffled sound of the rats hitting the water inside to escape. I bet they were all nice and dry too. Sorry Mr. Rat. Thats the life of a mushrat. Might go chop holes in the ice in a week or two to catch a few of them after they are good and prime, maybe not. Saw light coon and fox tracks where their dirty paws barely dusted the frozen marsh ice as they cruised along looking for a meal. Watched another five hundred or so Canada Geese take off and fly up river. A few minutes later heard some distant booming like rumbling thunder as the boys up river a ways took some with their big bore .12 and .10 gages. Hope they got some and are having fun with there sons, daughters and friends. Got nothing today, what a great hunt! Life is grand, isn't it? Happy Thanksgiving! bb ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "roger lahti" <amm1719@charter.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: An Old Man's Hunt Date: 27 Nov 2003 10:26:07 -0800 Ad, Nothing says you have to hunt with your high power in the high power season, or is there a rule? Good luck. Capt. Lahti' ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: MtMan-List: Brain Tanned Bison Lodges Date: 27 Nov 2003 20:35:18 -0700 (MST) Dear list, I can think of only three brain tan bison lodge makers off hand. Wes, Ken Woody, and Larry Belitz. Am I missing anyone. Are there a whole bunch of guys out there making tipis? I mean guys (or gals) that are doing it for a living like Wes. bb ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: MtMan-List: Bird Bags Date: 27 Nov 2003 20:43:51 -0700 (MST) I know this is too late for this year and may be nothing new to some of you but I thought I'd post it. I cooked my wild turkey today in an oven bag. I've used these oven bags before on grouse but never with a wild turkey before. It was the best wild turkey I've ever cooked! Like a lot of you, I just skin my birds, big and small, to avoid a lot of work and mess in plucking them. These bags act as a skin to keep them moist while baking. The one I used even came with a seasoning package. It was as moist as any store bought bird I've eaten. I was very impressed with the color, moisture, and taste. It was a gooder! Have a wonderful evening! bb ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Candi Smith" <twostitch@archersminiatures.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Bird Bags Date: 28 Nov 2003 12:53:04 -0800 Beaver Boy, You might try this the next time you go to cook any bird, turkey, grouse or whatever. You take a standard paper bag, like from the grocery store, then melt a stick of butter or margarine in the microwave or on the stove, then coat the inside of the entire bag. Once the bag is fully coated place the bird in breast down. Then place in a standard roaster and no lid. This way the bird is basted the entire baking time and by placing the breast down all the juices make it just a moist as the rest of the bird. By doing the bird this way there is no need to stuff the bird either. Often times I will put a sprig of rosemary inside and rub some sage, salt and pepper on the outside. The bird comes out great everytime. Just something to think or try the next time you go to roast a bird. Candi Smith/Twostitch ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2003 7:43 PM > I know this is too late for this year and may be nothing new to some > of you but I thought I'd post it. > I cooked my wild turkey today in an oven bag. I've used these oven > bags before on grouse but never with a wild turkey before. It was the > best wild turkey I've ever cooked! > Like a lot of you, I just skin my birds, big and small, to avoid a lot > of work and mess in plucking them. These bags act as a skin to keep > them moist while baking. The one I used even came with a seasoning > package. It was as moist as any store bought bird I've eaten. > I was very impressed with the color, moisture, and taste. It was a > gooder! > Have a wonderful evening! > bb > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Bird Bags Date: 29 Nov 2003 08:22:30 -0700 (MST) Thanks for that idea, Candi. I took half a plate of that wild Tom to work Friday and all the guys enjoyed it. I also saw my neighbor last night. I asked him how big his deer was. He shot a very nice (big) 4x5 whitetail! He took me to his house to show me the rack. I was impressed and really happy for him. He then told me he shot it just about where I got mine. That's cool, I thought to myself. Then he said, "I shot it sitting in your stand". Then I was bummed! ha Oh well, that's the beauty of hunting!! You never know whats going to happen. Next year!!! bb > Beaver Boy, > You might try this the next time you go to cook any bird, turkey, grouse > or > whatever. > You take a standard paper bag, like from the grocery store, then melt a > stick of butter or margarine in the microwave or on the stove, then coat > the > inside of the entire bag. Once the bag is fully coated place the bird in > breast down. Then place in a standard roaster and no lid. This way the > bird > is basted the entire baking time and by placing the breast down all the > juices make it just a moist as the rest of the bird. By doing the bird > this > way there is no need to stuff the bird either. Often times I will put a > sprig of rosemary inside and rub some sage, salt and pepper on the > outside. > The bird comes out great everytime. > > Just something to think or try the next time you go to roast a bird. > > Candi Smith/Twostitch > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <beaverboy@sofast.net> > To: <hist_text@xmission.com> > Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2003 7:43 PM > Subject: MtMan-List: Bird Bags > > >> I know this is too late for this year and may be nothing new to some >> of you but I thought I'd post it. >> I cooked my wild turkey today in an oven bag. I've used these oven >> bags before on grouse but never with a wild turkey before. It was the >> best wild turkey I've ever cooked! >> Like a lot of you, I just skin my birds, big and small, to avoid a >> lot >> of work and mess in plucking them. These bags act as a skin to keep >> them moist while baking. The one I used even came with a seasoning >> package. It was as moist as any store bought bird I've eaten. >> I was very impressed with the color, moisture, and taste. It was a >> gooder! >> Have a wonderful evening! >> bb >> >> ---------------------- >> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >> >> > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: MtMan-List: New Artifact Find! Date: 29 Nov 2003 12:55:49 -0700 (MST) My friend Mike Morris has told my about Sgt. Patrick Gass's ax head located in a Interpretive center in Washington state on the north side of the Columbia river looking over the beautiful Pacific Ocean. I've been there and have seen the ax. It's wonderful to see actual artifacts of the expedition instead of reproductions. According to Mike, this is a Gass Ax so he felt it was OK now to use a chainsaw on his primitive campouts as Gassaxe's can be documented! I thought you might get a chuckle out of that. bb ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jim Zeigler" <kodiak@ptd.net> Subject: MtMan-List: N.W. Trade Gun Question Date: 30 Nov 2003 18:27:37 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C3B76F.A1B34880 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello List: Can anyone tell me a site where I might be able to sell my = N.W. Trade Gun....thanks in advance for any help...jim ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C3B76F.A1B34880 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1276" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT=20 face=3DArial size=3D2> <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> <DIV><BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello List: Can anyone tell me a = site where I=20 might be able to sell my </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>N.W. Trade Gun....thanks in advance = for any=20 help...jim</FONT></DIV></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C3B76F.A1B34880-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randal Bublitz" <rjbublitz@earthlink.net> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: N.W. Trade Gun Question Date: 30 Nov 2003 15:45:32 -0800 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Hi Jim, try http://www.historicaltrekking.com/blanket.shtml for selling items. Randy ----- Original Message ----- Sent: 11/30/03 3:27:43 PM Hello List: Can anyone tell me a site where I might be able to sell my N.W. Trade Gun....thanks in advance for any help...jim ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII <HTML style="FONT-SIZE: x-small; FONT-FAMILY: MS Sans Serif"><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV>Hi Jim, try <A href="http://www.historicaltrekking.com/blanket.shtml">http://www.historicaltrekking.com/blanket.shtml</A> for selling items. Randy</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt Arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=kodiak@ptd.net href="mailto:kodiak@ptd.net">Jim Zeigler</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To: </B><A title=hist_text@lists.xmission.com href="mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com</A></DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> 11/30/03 3:27:43 PM </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> MtMan-List: N.W. Trade Gun Question</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT size=2> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT face=Arial size=2> <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> <DIV><BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hello List: Can anyone tell me a site where I might be able to sell my </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>N.W. Trade Gun....thanks in advance for any help...jim</FONT></DIV></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" <admiller@citynet.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: N.W. Trade Gun Question Date: 30 Nov 2003 19:42:55 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C3B77A.2664A8D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Try www.auctionarms.com, or a list :) Regards, Ad ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C3B77A.2664A8D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1141" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Try <A=20 href=3D"http://www.auctionarms.com">www.auctionarms.com</A>, or a list=20 :)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Regards,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Ad</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C3B77A.2664A8D0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JOAQUINQS@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: N.W. Trade Gun Question Date: 30 Nov 2003 20:45:08 EST --part1_8f.35845e7e.2cfbf724_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jim, Would it happen to be a lefty? Frank Sablan Midland,Texas --part1_8f.35845e7e.2cfbf724_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE= =3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">Jim,<BR> Would it happen to be a lefty?<BR> <BR> Frank Sablan<BR> Midland,Texas</FONT></HTML> --part1_8f.35845e7e.2cfbf724_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mdrougas@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Frock coat? Date: 30 Nov 2003 21:09:16 EST --part1_b0.41e90a90.2cfbfccc_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To the list, I wrote in about a year age for help on some brain tan pantaloons I was going to make. Your advise worked out great. there very comfortable and warm. Thanks much. My next project is a brain tan frock. I've seen many, I check out Crazy's site alot and saw the picture of his. I get the tomahawk and long rifle mag , on the trail and muzzleloader. saw plenty in there. What advise can you give? I thinking of a no frills type. pretty basic. I don't want to use a pattern, I think. Or should I? How would you start if not using a pattern? Thanks in advance and thanks again for the help with the pantaloons. My wife really likes these rather than my old "diaper bottom" trousers:). Michael (Mike) J. Drougas Yakima County, Wa. --part1_b0.41e90a90.2cfbfccc_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE= =3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">To the list,<BR> I wrote in about a year age for help on= some brain tan pantaloons I was going to make. Your advise worked out great= . there very comfortable and warm. Thanks much.<BR> My next project is a brain tan frock. I= 've seen many, I check out Crazy's site alot and saw the picture of his. I g= et the tomahawk and long rifle mag , on the trail and muzzleloader. saw plen= ty in there. What advise can you give? I thinking of a no frills type. prett= y basic. I don't want to use a pattern, I think. Or should I? How would you=20= start if not using a pattern?<BR> Thanks in advance and thanks again for=20= the help with the pantaloons. My wife really likes these rather than my old=20= "diaper bottom" trousers:).<BR> =20= =20= =20= Michael (Mike) J. Drougas<BR> =20= =20= =20= Yakima County, Wa.</FONT></HTML> --part1_b0.41e90a90.2cfbfccc_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jim Zeigler" <kodiak@ptd.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: N.W. Trade Gun Question Date: 30 Nov 2003 21:42:45 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C3B78A.E42B03E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Frank: I'm sorry it's a righty...jim Jim, Would it happen to be a lefty? Frank Sablan Midland,Texas ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C3B78A.E42B03E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1276" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello Frank: I'm sorry it's a=20 righty...jim</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT lang=3D0 = face=3DArial size=3D2=20 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">Jim,<BR>Would it happen to be a = lefty?<BR><BR>Frank=20 Sablan<BR>Midland,Texas</FONT> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C3B78A.E42B03E0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James and Sue Stone <jandsstone@earthlink.net> Subject: MtMan-List: waterproffing Date: 30 Nov 2003 20:22:13 -0700 Looking to waterproof a cows knee. I have some pure mink oil (no silicon) and some real beeswax. What proportions of each should I use? Sparks ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Double Edge Forge" <deforge1@bright.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: waterproffing Date: 30 Nov 2003 22:23:28 -0500 try 50/50 D ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2003 10:22 PM > Looking to waterproof a cows knee. I have some pure mink oil (no > silicon) and some real beeswax. What proportions of each should I use? > > Sparks > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randal Bublitz" <rjbublitz@earthlink.net> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Frock coat? Date: 30 Nov 2003 19:35:35 -0800 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Mike, I made a new brain tanned coat this spring. I pondered and worried and etc..., about how to make, what pattern, etc.... I finally decided my old commercial tan coat (which I was replacing) had always worked great, so I took it apart and used for a pattern. I am happy with it. It is simple and practicle, which I think is a safe bet when making old timey clothing. I can send you a pic if you wish. Let me know. Randy ----- Original Message ----- Cc: Mdrougas@aol.com Sent: 11/30/03 6:09:17 PM To the list, I wrote in about a year age for help on some brain tan pantaloons I was going to make. Your advise worked out great. there very comfortable and warm. Thanks much. My next project is a brain tan frock. I've seen many, I check out Crazy's site alot and saw the picture of his. I get the tomahawk and long rifle mag , on the trail and muzzleloader. saw plenty in there. What advise can you give? I thinking of a no frills type. pretty basic. I don't want to use a pattern, I think. Or should I? How would you start if not using a pattern? Thanks in advance and thanks again for the help with the pantaloons. My wife really likes these rather than my old "diaper bottom" trousers:). Michael (Mike) J. Drougas Yakima County, Wa. ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII <HTML><HEAD> <META content="MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><FONT face="MS Sans Serif" size=2>Mike, I made a new brain tanned coat this spring. I pondered and worried and etc..., about how to make, what pattern, etc.... I finally decided my old commercial tan coat (which I was replacing) had always worked great, so I took it apart and used for a pattern. I am happy with it. It is simple and practicle, which I think is a safe bet when making old timey clothing. I can send you a pic if you wish. Let me know. Randy</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt Arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=Mdrougas@aol.com href="mailto:Mdrougas@aol.com"></A></DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To: </B><A title=hist_text@xmission.com href="mailto:hist_text@xmission.com">hist_text@xmission.com</A> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc: </B><A title=Mdrougas@aol.com href="mailto:Mdrougas@aol.com">Mdrougas@aol.com</A></DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> 11/30/03 6:09:17 PM </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> MtMan-List: Frock coat?</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT size=2><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT lang=0 face=Arial size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF">To the list,<BR> I wrote in about a year age for help on some brain tan pantaloons I was going to make. Your advise worked out great. there very comfortable and warm. Thanks much.<BR> My next project is a brain tan frock. I've seen many, I check out Crazy's site alot and saw the picture of his. I get the tomahawk and long rifle mag , on the trail and muzzleloader. saw plenty in there. What advise can you give? I thinking of a no frills type. pretty basic. I don't want to use a pattern, I think. Or should I? How would you start if not using a pattern?<BR> Thanks in advance and thanks again for the help with the pantaloons. My wife really likes these rather than my old "diaper bottom" trousers:).<BR> Michael (Mike) J. Drougas<BR> Yakima County, Wa.</FONT> </FONT></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "roger lahti" <amm1719@charter.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: waterproffing Date: 30 Nov 2003 20:39:30 -0800 Or a mix that works for your conditions. 50/50 is a good place to start. If it's too hard then increase the oil, if too soft, increase the wax. Capt. Lahti' ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2003 7:23 PM > try 50/50 > > D > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James and Sue Stone" <jandsstone@earthlink.net> > To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> > Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2003 10:22 PM > Subject: MtMan-List: waterproffing > > > > Looking to waterproof a cows knee. I have some pure mink oil (no > > silicon) and some real beeswax. What proportions of each should I use? > > > > Sparks > > > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "roger lahti" <amm1719@charter.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Frock coat? Date: 30 Nov 2003 20:37:29 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01C3B781.C6084200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mike, Not that I am an expert on making brain tan frocks but I did make a long = coat from a couple of elk size hides and a couple deer hides a few years = back. I agonized over that project for quite a while because of the = material I was going to cut into. Well I finally took a pattern, actually a basic hunting frock coat to = use so I knew what I might end up with. I think the coat came out quite = nice with some non critical special touches I incorporated on my own. = Flap pockets like on a Great Coat. A standup collar like on a military = coat. Short fringe at most seams for esthetics. Trimmed with green wool = blanket trimming from Pendleton. Nice bone buttons I had accumulated = over the years. But the most important thing I did was use a pattern of some kind. There = are quite a few coat/frock patterns around and I would encourage you to = find one you like and use it to decide how to best lay out and cut your = hides. Any questions or help needed, I'm just down the road a few miles. YMOS Capt. Lahti' Kennewick WA. ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01C3B781.C6084200 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1170" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2>Mike,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2>Not that I am an = expert on making=20 brain tan frocks but I did make a long coat from a couple of elk size = hides and=20 a couple deer hides a few years back. I agonized over that project for = quite a=20 while because of the material I was going to cut into.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2>Well I finally took a = pattern,=20 actually a basic hunting frock coat to use so I knew what I might end up = with. I=20 think the coat came out quite nice with some non critical special = touches I=20 incorporated on my own. Flap pockets like on a Great Coat. A standup = collar like=20 on a military coat. Short fringe at most seams for esthetics. Trimmed = with green=20 wool blanket trimming from Pendleton. Nice bone buttons I had = accumulated over=20 the years.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2>But the most important = thing I did=20 was use a pattern of some kind. There are quite a few coat/frock = patterns around=20 and I would encourage you to find one you like and use it to decide how = to best=20 lay out and cut your hides.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2>Any questions or help = needed, I'm=20 just down the road a few miles.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2>YMOS</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2>Capt. = Lahti'</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2>Kennewick = WA.</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: = 0px"> </BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01C3B781.C6084200-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James and Sue Stone <jandsstone@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: waterproffing Date: 30 Nov 2003 21:42:45 -0700 --------------040701080801080508070900 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks, Dennis. Do I waterproof the inside as well as the outside of the cows knee? Just wondering. I ordered a couple pounds of beeswax. I'm sure I'll have enough left for the rest of the cow after I finish with the knee! ;-) Sparks Double Edge Forge wrote: >try 50/50 > >D > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "James and Sue Stone" <jandsstone@earthlink.net> >To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> >Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2003 10:22 PM >Subject: MtMan-List: waterproffing > > > > >>Looking to waterproof a cows knee. I have some pure mink oil (no >>silicon) and some real beeswax. What proportions of each should I use? >> >>Sparks >> >> >>---------------------- >>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >> >> >> > > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > --------------040701080801080508070900 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1"> <title></title> </head> <body> Thanks, Dennis.<br> Do I waterproof the inside as well as the outside of the cows knee? Just wondering. I ordered a couple pounds of beeswax. I'm sure I'll have enough left for the rest of the cow after I finish with the knee! <span class="moz-smiley-s3"><span> ;-) </span></span><br> Sparks<br> <br> Double Edge Forge wrote:<br> <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid002f01c3b7ba$7de5ad30$6a228fd1@ALASKA"> <pre wrap="">try 50/50 D ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2003 10:22 PM </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">Looking to waterproof a cows knee. I have some pure mink oil (no silicon) and some real beeswax. What proportions of each should I use? Sparks ---------------------- hist_text list info: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html">http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html</a> </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""> ---------------------- hist_text list info: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html">http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html</a> </pre> </blockquote> <br> </body> </html> --------------040701080801080508070900-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James and Sue Stone <jandsstone@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: waterproffing Date: 30 Nov 2003 22:00:33 -0700 --------------020405030408050208030004 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Captain, I'll take that into consideration, sir. I suppose if the preparation crackles and peels off, it's too heavy to wax. Sparks roger lahti wrote: >Or a mix that works for your conditions. 50/50 is a good place to start. If >it's too hard then increase the oil, if too soft, increase the wax. > >Capt. Lahti' > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Double Edge Forge" <deforge1@bright.net> >To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> >Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2003 7:23 PM >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: waterproffing > > > > >>try 50/50 >> >>D >> >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "James and Sue Stone" <jandsstone@earthlink.net> >>To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> >>Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2003 10:22 PM >>Subject: MtMan-List: waterproffing >> >> >> >> >>>Looking to waterproof a cows knee. I have some pure mink oil (no >>>silicon) and some real beeswax. What proportions of each should I use? >>> >>>Sparks >>> >>> >>>---------------------- >>>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >>> >>> >>> >> >>---------------------- >>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >> >> > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > --------------020405030408050208030004 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1"> <title></title> </head> <body> Captain,<br> I'll take that into consideration, sir.<br> I suppose if the preparation crackles and peels off, it's too heavy to wax.<br> Sparks<br> <br> roger lahti wrote:<br> <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid003b01c3b7c5$1c7f4910$d60b7744@x2d1a5"> <pre wrap="">Or a mix that works for your conditions. 50/50 is a good place to start. If it's too hard then increase the oil, if too soft, increase the wax. Capt. Lahti' ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2003 7:23 PM </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">try 50/50 D ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2003 10:22 PM </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">Looking to waterproof a cows knee. I have some pure mink oil (no silicon) and some real beeswax. What proportions of each should I use? Sparks ---------------------- hist_text list info: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html">http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html</a> </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""> ---------------------- hist_text list info: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html">http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html</a> </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""> ---------------------- hist_text list info: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html">http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html</a> </pre> </blockquote> <br> </body> </html> --------------020405030408050208030004-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "roger lahti" <amm1719@charter.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: waterproffing Date: 30 Nov 2003 21:41:35 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C3B78A.BA0BA100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sparks, I suppose you could do without the wax all together. Probably the mike = oil will do an adequate job. It's not like it needs to be submersible. = On the other hand, a nice mix of bee's wax and some oil like olive or = etc. makes a nice water proofing an patch lube. Makes a nice lip balm = too. Just adjust the thickness or hardness so it's workable in the cold = and not runny in the heat. I'm not sure what the regular use of a "cows knee" was way back though I = have seen a picture of an original or at least original to the 19th = century at some time. What I use is an old wool sock with about half the = foot cut off. Works great. Keeps the snow off the lock, keeps the rain = off it too for a while, quite a while actually. And when you need to = shoot you just pull it back past the wrist a short ways and that exposes = the lock and trigger for your use. I'm also in the habit of not bothering with even the sock if I am = wearing my great coat. I keep the lock area under the skirts of the coat = grasping the coat edge and the gun at the normal balance point and let = the lock and butt stay under cover. And I keep the muzzle down. Anyway, the best deer hunting is in the rain right after a wet snow has = laid a lot of snow in the trees to plop out onto the deer. They don't = like that so they come out in the open. They don't mind the rain as much = as they mind being plopped on.=20 Have fun and keep your powder dry. Capt. Lahti' ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C3B78A.BA0BA100 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD><TITLE></TITLE> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type = content=3Dtext/html;charset=3DISO-8859-1> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1170" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2>Sparks,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2>I suppose you could do = without the=20 wax all together. Probably the mike oil will do an adequate job. It's = not like=20 it needs to be submersible. On the other hand, a nice mix of bee's wax = and some=20 oil like olive or etc. makes a nice water proofing an patch lube. Makes = a nice=20 lip balm too. Just adjust the thickness or hardness so it's workable in = the cold=20 and not runny in the heat.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2>I'm not sure what the = regular use=20 of a "cows knee" was way back though I have seen a picture of an = original or at=20 least original to the 19th century at some time. What I use is an old = wool sock=20 with about half the foot cut off. Works great. Keeps the snow off the = lock,=20 keeps the rain off it too for a while, quite a while actually. And when = you need=20 to shoot you just pull it back past the wrist a short ways and that = exposes the=20 lock and trigger for your use.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2>I'm also in the habit = of not=20 bothering with even the sock if I am wearing my great coat. I keep the = lock area=20 under the skirts of the coat grasping the coat edge and the gun at the = normal=20 balance point and let the lock and butt stay under cover. And I keep the = muzzle=20 down.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2>Anyway, the best deer = hunting is=20 in the rain right after a wet snow has laid a lot of snow in the trees = to plop=20 out onto the deer. They don't like that so they come out in the open. = They don't=20 mind the rain as much as they mind being plopped on. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2>Have fun and keep your = powder=20 dry.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2>Capt. = Lahti'</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C3B78A.BA0BA100-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wynn Ormond" <cheyenne@pcu.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Frock coat? Date: 30 Nov 2003 23:01:25 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_008C_01C3B795.E1742040 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Capt. Did you mean elk hides or just large hides? I have a small elk hide = that was cut in half that I am going to try to tan soon and have = wondered about using it for the back and deer elsewhere for a coat. = Does anyone have any input on mixing types of skins like that? Could you please also clarify the details of trimming with blanket wool. = I think that was fairly common or at least not unheard of and would = certainly add a splash of color and style. And to Mike I am diffenately no expert but try to visualize cutting into all the = brain tan with no idea if its going to work (ie no pattern). Your a = brave man if you can do that. Matt Richards in his book points out the = fact that many times clothes have cuts that are not intuitively obvious. = I would cut up an old garment or use a pattern or something at least. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: roger lahti=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2003 9:37 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Frock coat? Mike, Not that I am an expert on making brain tan frocks but I did make a = long coat from a couple of elk size hides and a couple deer hides a few = years back. I agonized over that project for quite a while because of = the material I was going to cut into. Well I finally took a pattern, actually a basic hunting frock coat to = use so I knew what I might end up with. I think the coat came out quite = nice with some non critical special touches I incorporated on my own. = Flap pockets like on a Great Coat. A standup collar like on a military = coat. Short fringe at most seams for esthetics. Trimmed with green wool = blanket trimming from Pendleton. Nice bone buttons I had accumulated = over the years. But the most important thing I did was use a pattern of some kind. = There are quite a few coat/frock patterns around and I would encourage = you to find one you like and use it to decide how to best lay out and = cut your hides. Any questions or help needed, I'm just down the road a few miles. YMOS Capt. Lahti' Kennewick WA. ------=_NextPart_000_008C_01C3B795.E1742040 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Capt.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Did you mean elk hides or just large = hides? I=20 have a small elk hide that was cut in half that I am going to try to tan = soon=20 and have wondered about using it for the back and deer elsewhere for a=20 coat. Does anyone have any input on mixing types of skins like=20 that?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Could you please also clarify the = details of=20 trimming with blanket wool. I think that was fairly common or at = least not=20 unheard of and would certainly add a splash of color and=20 style.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>And to Mike</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I am diffenately no expert but try to = visualize=20 cutting into all the brain tan with no idea if its going to work (ie no=20 pattern). Your a brave man if you can do that. Matt Richards = in his=20 book points out the fact that many times clothes have cuts that are = not=20 intuitively obvious. I would cut up an old garment or use a = pattern or=20 something at least.</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Damm1719@charter.net = href=3D"mailto:amm1719@charter.net">roger lahti</A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3Dhist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 = href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com= </A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, November 30, 2003 = 9:37=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: Frock=20 coat?</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial = size=3D2></FONT><FONT=20 face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial = size=3D2></FONT><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2>Mike,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2>Not that I am an = expert on=20 making brain tan frocks but I did make a long coat from a couple of = elk size=20 hides and a couple deer hides a few years back. I agonized over that = project=20 for quite a while because of the material I was going to cut=20 into.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2>Well I finally took = a pattern,=20 actually a basic hunting frock coat to use so I knew what I might end = up with.=20 I think the coat came out quite nice with some non critical special = touches I=20 incorporated on my own. Flap pockets like on a Great Coat. A standup = collar=20 like on a military coat. Short fringe at most seams for esthetics. = Trimmed=20 with green wool blanket trimming from Pendleton. Nice bone buttons I = had=20 accumulated over the years.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2>But the most = important thing I=20 did was use a pattern of some kind. There are quite a few coat/frock = patterns=20 around and I would encourage you to find one you like and use it to = decide how=20 to best lay out and cut your hides.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2>Any questions or = help needed,=20 I'm just down the road a few miles.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2>YMOS</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2>Capt. = Lahti'</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2>Kennewick = WA.</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT=20 face=3DArial = size=3D2></FONT> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_008C_01C3B795.E1742040-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html