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Internet Message Format | 2002-05-28 | 298KB

From: "Henry B. Crawford" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Bent's Fort
Date: 01 May 2002 08:40:39 -0500

Hi Bob,
I got your message.  I don't think I can do Bent's this july 4 weekend, but
I might make the SFT event if thay're having it at the end of July.  It's
been about 3 years since I worked the trade room.  Maybe I'll see you at
Golondrinas for Frontier Market.

Say hi to Greg.  If you see Hengesbaugh, give him a big WAUGH for me.

Cheers,
HBC

***********************************
Henry B. Crawford
Curator of History
Museum of Texas Tech University
Box 43191
Lubbock, TX  79409-3191
[e-mail]
806/742-2442, ext 255   FAX [phone]
Website: http://www.museum.ttu.edu
***Living History . . . Because It's There***



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From: "John L. Allen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Lewis and Clark summer courses at the BBHC
Date: 02 May 2002 20:48:30 -0600

Ho, the list.

I know a number of the folks on the list are interested in the Lewis and
Clark Expedition. Here is a chance to learn more about the Corps of
Discovery from "the masters" (ahem). I've taught at the summer institute at
the Buffalo Bill Historical Center in Cody, WY, several times and it is a
blast. You don't have to be a college student, have a degree, etc. to take
these courses--all you need is an interest in the subject matter. Contact
information at the end of the imbedded message below--or, if you want,
contact me off-list and I'll be able to answer any questions.

Frontiers for the Mind: Larom Summer Institute in Western American Studies
Buffalo Bill Historical Center
Cody, Wyoming June 2002

The bicentennial celebration of the historic journey of Lewis and Clark's
Corps of Discovery is rapidly approaching.  To better understand the rich
legacy of the Corps of Discovery, join with other participants as the
Buffalo Bill Historical Center's Summer Institute classes explore the world
of Lewis and Clark.  Not just a survey of the expedition's travels,
encounters and accomplishments, the courses bring the heritage of Lewis and
Clark into the 21st century.  Experience the excitement and adventure of
their epic journey and discover their timeless legacy.

Session I: June 3-14, 2002 Pioneering Naturalists: The Natural History of
the Lewis and Clark Expedition John L. Allen, chair, Department of
Geography, University of Wyoming

Exploration and Encounter: Lewis and Clark in Indian Country James P. Ronda,
H. G. Barnard Chair in Western American History, University of Tulsa

Session II: June 17-28, 2002 Charting the Course of Empire: Mapping the
American West with Lewis and Clark and Beyond Ralph Ehrenberg, Chief
Emeritus, Geography and Map Division, Library of Congress

 From Lewis and Clark: The U. S. Army in the West George G. Chalou,
Emeritus, National Archives

General Information

Since 1979, the Larom Summer Institute in Western American Studies has
invited nationally renowned scholars to the Buffalo Bill Historical Center.
These scholars bring new insights into the historical and contemporary
issues that have both transformed and beleaguered the West.

The Summer Institute is an interdisciplinary group of courses designed to
explore the histories and diverse cultures that have contributed to our
understanding of the American West. The extraordinary faculty, participants,
and location make the Larom Summer Institute unique.

Participants from across the United States, Canada, and Europe include
educators, museum professionals, graduate and undergraduate students, and
individuals with interests in the art, cultures and history of the West.

This melding of Institute students, combined with small class sizes,
provides ample opportunity for dynamic discussions with participants from
other backgrounds and experiences.

With the Northern Rocky Mountains as a backdrop, the Summer Institute
courses in Cody are held where the natural and cultural features of the West
are abundant and accessible. The course content is also enhanced by the
collections of the Buffalo Bill Historical Center.

Students may earn graduate or undergraduate credit (two semester hours per
course).  Additionally, scholarships to attend the Summer Institute are
still available.  For more information, please contact:

Lillian Turner
Public Programs Coordinator
Buffalo Bill Historical Center
720 Sheridan Avenue
Cody, WY 82414
E-mail: [e-mail]
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

[message sent by]
Dr. John L. Allen
2703 Leslie Court
Laramie, WY 82072-2979
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
e-mail: [e-mail]



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From: "Gene Hickman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mildew on tent
Date: 03 May 2002 11:24:08 -0600

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Thanks for the info Barney. I think you mean the bleach kills the =
mildew, although it kills bacteria too. Two different organisms.

Bead Shooter
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: [e-mail]=20
  Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 7:28 PM


  ...He said soap cleans it and bleach both kills the bacteria and =
lightens the stain. IIRC, he said it would be difficult to remove all =
the discoloration, but stopping the mildew growth was the most important =
thing...
  Barney


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<STYLE></STYLE>
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks for the info Barney. I think you =
mean the=20
bleach kills the mildew, although it kills bacteria too. Two different=20
organisms.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Bead Shooter</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=[e-mail]=20
  href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, April 29, 2002 =
7:28=20
PM</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><BR></DIV><FONT =
face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT=20
  lang=3D0 face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#0000a0 size=3D2 =
FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT"><B>...He said=20
  soap cleans it and bleach both kills the bacteria and lightens the =
stain.=20
  IIRC, he said it would be difficult to remove all the discoloration, =
but=20
  stopping the mildew growth was the most important=20
thing...<BR>Barney<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></B></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>

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From: "WindWalker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mildew on tent
Date: 03 May 2002 12:36:28 -0400

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Bleach kills the threads to and also the fabric
if one is not careful using it..
So if you use to much expect the threads to fall apart
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 5/3/02 at 11:24 AM Gene Hickman wrote:
Thanks for the info Barney. I think you mean the bleach kills the mildew,=
 although it kills bacteria too. Two different organisms.

Bead Shooter
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 7:28 PM


...He said soap cleans it and bleach both kills the bacteria and lightens=
 the stain. IIRC, he said it would be difficult to remove all the=
 discoloration, but stopping the mildew growth was the most important=
 thing...
Barney


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<DIV>Bleach kills the threads to and also the fabric</DIV>
<DIV>if one is not careful using it..</DIV>
<DIV>So if you use to much expect the threads to fall apart<BR><FONT face=Arial
size=2>*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********<BR><BR>On 5/3/02 at 11:24 AM Gene
Hickman wrote:</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid">
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Thanks for the info Barney. I think you mean the
  bleach kills the mildew, although it kills bacteria too. Two different
  organisms.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Bead Shooter</FONT></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE
  style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
    <DIV
    style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
    <A title=[e-mail]
    href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A> </DIV>
    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, April 29, 2002 7:28
    PM</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><BR></DIV><FONT
    face=arial,helvetica><FONT lang=0 face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000a0 size=2
    FAMILY="SCRIPT"><B>...He said soap cleans it and bleach both kills the
    bacteria and lightens the stain. IIRC, he said it would be difficult to
    remove all the discoloration, but stopping the mildew growth was the most
    important thing...<BR>Barney<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></B></FONT></FONT><FONT size=2
  Arial></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BODY></HTML>


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From: "Addison Miller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mildew on tent
Date: 03 May 2002 14:04:20 -0400

Aye, WindWalker... that was why at the beginning I recommended a
solution of water and vinegar... 10 Glacial Acetic Acid... Will kill
the mildew and not harm the tent. I have used that on leather, canvas,
etc... with no ill effects. Just air it out real well, or it smells
like a pickle factory... *grins*...

Regards,

Ad

************************************************

Bleach kills the threads to and also the fabric
if one is not careful using it..
So if you use to much expect the threads to fall apart



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From: Brenda <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Mildew on tent
Date: 03 May 2002 14:09:09 -0500

Thanks so much for all the advice on the Mildew. I really think the
Vinegar, borax and garlic oil worked better than anything. Just mixed it
up in spray bottle, filled with water and sprayed on.  Let sit and rinse
off and thoroughly dry.  It still looks stained a little, but that just
adds character.
Brenda


-----Original Message-----
[mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of Addison Miller
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 1:04 PM

Aye, WindWalker... that was why at the beginning I recommended a
solution of water and vinegar... 10 Glacial Acetic Acid... Will kill
the mildew and not harm the tent. I have used that on leather, canvas,
etc... with no ill effects. Just air it out real well, or it smells
like a pickle factory... *grins*...

Regards,

Ad

************************************************

Bleach kills the threads to and also the fabric
if one is not careful using it..
So if you use to much expect the threads to fall apart



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From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Gun cases as hats!
Date: 03 May 2002 20:47:07 -0600 (MDT)

Dear List,
     Gun cases should always be made of wool as they can double as
scarve's in a blizzard. A great tip from ghickman9. He gave that tip to me
as we hunted turkeys this week. He also said you can wear it as a turban!?
I think he was kidding about that.
                     Beaverboy



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From: "WindWalker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: buff shoot
Date: 05 May 2002 00:05:48 -0400

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While back someone asked of a Buff shoot I went to.
It was a private held shhot in topeka ks and the buff
was private owned and butchered.
It was a black powder cartridge shoot.
I went taking the sharps and rolling block Remington
the sharps sport model was in 45/110 calbre.
I was unhappy for the price charged per shot, {$10}
But shot anyway and won a bnls chuck. But I protested
the shoot after i found that some of the springfield rifle
boys with the trapdoors were using factory ammo.
Boy was I upset. I asked and recieved my fees for 3
rounds that I shot against them and asked they be barred
from shooting.. I won, but the rednecks were not happy..
no matter.. i had my sharps {grin}
even was 300 yrs any style you wanted.. we choose
Ballard style shooting on back with rifle resting on feet.
I laced second in serval rounds against the high walls.
I was using a Lee handloader, loading each shot by hand.
with cleaning between rounds.
I refraimed from last round for the cape as it was a $25 round..
and the locals till was whizzed about not being allowed to shoot their=
 trapdoors
anyway was good outing.. the people attending were nice {only out of=
 staters}
the locals were pric&*+*s.. But we still have 85 lb of bnls meat....
would I go again? no.... will I closer watch for the smoke of a black=
 powder round?
yes.......
Rifle used Sharps Shilo in sport model  oct/ 1 1/8 in barrel
double sets.. Buffington rear sights calbre 45/110
 A real hog of a gun
Windwalker


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<BODY style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial" text=#000000 bgColor=#ffffff><FONT size=2><FONT
size=2>
<P>While back someone asked of a Buff shoot I went to.</P>
<P>It was a private held shhot in topeka ks and the buff</P>
<P>was private owned and butchered.</P>
<P>It was a black powder cartridge shoot.</P>
<P>I went taking the sharps and rolling block Remington</P>
<P>the sharps sport model was in 45/110 calbre.</P>
<P>I was unhappy for the price charged per shot, {$10}</P>
<P>But shot anyway and won a bnls chuck. But I protested</P>
<P>the shoot after i found that some of the springfield rifle</P>
<P>boys with the trapdoors were using factory ammo.</P>
<P>Boy was I upset. I asked and recieved my fees for 3</P>
<P>rounds that I shot against them and asked they be barred</P>
<P>from shooting.. I won, but the rednecks were not happy..</P>
<P>no matter.. i had my sharps {grin}</P>
<P>even was 300 yrs any style you wanted.. we choose</P>
<P>Ballard style shooting on back with rifle resting on feet.</P>
<P>I laced second in serval rounds against the high walls.</P>
<P>I was using a Lee handloader, loading each shot by hand.</P>
<P>with cleaning between rounds.</P>
<P>I refraimed from last round for the cape as it was a $25 round..</P>
<P>and the locals till was whizzed about not being allowed to shoot their
trapdoors</P>
<P>anyway was good outing.. the people attending were nice {only out of
staters}</P>
<P>the locals were pric&*+*s.. But we still have 85 lb of bnls meat....</P>
<P>would I go again? no.... will I closer watch for the smoke of a black powder
round?</P>
<P>yes.......</P>
<P>Rifle used Sharps Shilo in sport model  oct/ 1 1/8 in barrel</P>
<P>double sets.. Buffington rear sights calbre 45/110</P>
<P> A real hog of a gun</P>
<P>Windwalker</P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>


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From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Fw: Texas Rev. Stuff
Date: 06 May 2002 21:00:09 -0500

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This will be of limited interest to many on this list, but Taylor =
Anderson from Granbury, Texas is looking for some folks for live and =
filmed protrayals of Texas Revolution action.  Read his post below. =20
For those who don't know Taylor, he is a great gun maker....making many =
of the parts himself, not just assembling a pile of parts purchased from =
others.  He is a good man and my friend.  You may take my word that what =
he tells you will be the straight skinny at all times.
Lanney Ratcliff


=20



           Howdy, Fellas.    I have been contacted asking for =
information on Reenactors who would be interested in participating in =
some Texas Revolution projects ie; state functions and film productions =
(large and small) as there are approx 8 projects in the works.   As most =
of you would expect, I am looking, in particular, to find out what is =
available in the way of artillery pieces and crews, but we are also =
interested in getting a handle on how many people might be able to =
portray Mexican soldiers, the primary criteria for that ability being =
the possession of a Brown Bess musket, Charleville or other period =
military muskets and white buff leather accoutrements.  Of course, if =
you have any other equipment--uniforms, shakos, etc., that would surely =
help.     I am not at liberty to discuss further details at the present =
time---even if I had any----and I apologize for this, but most of you =
who have done this sort of thing before will understand.  Anyway, if you =
are interested, please forward any pertinent information to:  Taylor =
Anderson at [e-mail]  2830 Pear Orchard Rd.  Granbury, =
Texas, 76048.     Of course, any pictures you might have will help. =
8x10's are requested, as well as descriptions--type, bore size, etc., =
for artillery pieces, as well as contact information for the gun owner.  =
A picture of the gun AND crew, in appropriate garb would be ideal. =
Obviously, I don't have everybody's e-mail address,  and if I have left =
somebody out, it is not because I did not think of them, so if you know =
anybody that might be interested, that I have not contacted, please feel =
free to forward.

                  Taylor Anderson.=20









---
    Do You Yahoo!?
    Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness




-------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness

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    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">
<DIV><B>This will be of limited interest to many on this list, but =
Taylor=20
Anderson from Granbury, Texas is looking for some folks for live =
and filmed=20
protrayals of Texas Revolution action.  Read his post below. =20
</B></DIV>
<DIV><B>For those who don't know Taylor, he is a great gun =
maker....making many=20
of the parts himself, not just assembling a pile of parts purchased from =

others.  He is a good man and my friend.  You may take my word =
that=20
what he tells you will be the straight skinny at all times.</B></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Lanney Ratcliff</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Texas Rev. Stuff</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<P>=20
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px =
solid">
  <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
  <STYLE></STYLE>

  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <P> </P>
    <P>       Howdy, =
Fellas.    I=20
    have been contacted asking for information on Reenactors who would =
be=20
    interested in participating in some Texas Revolution projects ie; =
state=20
    functions and film productions (large and small) as there are approx =
8=20
    projects in the works.   As most of you would expect, I am =

    looking, in particular, to find out what is available in the way of=20
    artillery pieces and crews, but we are also interested in getting a =
handle=20
    on how many people might be able to portray Mexican soldiers, the =
primary=20
    criteria for that ability being the possession of a Brown Bess =
musket,=20
    Charleville or other period military muskets and white buff =
leather=20
    accoutrements.  Of course, if you have any other =
equipment--uniforms,=20
    shakos, etc., that would surely help.     I am =
not at=20
    liberty to discuss further details at the present time---even if I =
had=20
    any----and I apologize for this, but most of you who have done this =
sort of=20
    thing before will understand.  Anyway, if you are interested, =
please=20
    forward any pertinent information to:  Taylor Anderson at <A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A>  =
2830=20
    Pear Orchard Rd.  Granbury, Texas, =
76048.     Of=20
    course, any pictures you might have will help. 8x10's are =
requested, as=20
    well as descriptions--type, bore size, etc., for artillery pieces, =
as well=20
    as contact information for the gun owner.  A picture of the gun =
AND=20
    crew, in appropriate garb would be ideal. Obviously, I don't have=20
    everybody's e-mail address,  and if I have left somebody out, =
it is not=20
    because I did not think of them, so if you know anybody that might =
be=20
    interested, that I have not contacted, please feel free to =
forward.</P>
    =
<P>           &nbs=
p;  Taylor=20
    Anderson. </P>
    <P> </P>
    <P> </P>
    <P><BR>
    <HR SIZE=3D1>
    <B>Do You Yahoo!?</B><BR><A=20
    href=3D"http://rd.yahoo.com/welcome/*http://health.yahoo.com">Yahoo! =

    Health</A> - your guide to health and =
wellness</BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P><BR>
<HR SIZE=3D1>
<B>Do You Yahoo!?</B><BR><A=20
href=3D"http://rd.yahoo.com/welcome/*http://health.yahoo.com">Yahoo! =
Health</A> -=20
your guide to health and wellness</BODY></HTML>

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From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Comanche Peak ML Rendezvous
Date: 06 May 2002 21:14:42 -0500

The spring rendezvous for Comanche Peak Muzzleloaders (Texas) has finally,
officially been canceled due to unending flooding at the site.  Come see us
in the fall.
Lanney Ratcliff
v.pres CPM


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From: Phyllis and Don Keas <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Comanche Peak ML Rendezvous
Date: 07 May 2002 21:51:56 -0600

We are burning up and you are flooding?  W;hat is wrong with this picture? =
 Don

On Tuesday, June 24, 1941, Lanney Ratcliff <[e-mail]> =
wrote:
>The spring rendezvous for Comanche Peak Muzzleloaders (Texas) has finally,=

>officially been canceled due to unending flooding at the site.  Come see =
us
>in the fall.
>Lanney Ratcliff
>v.pres CPM
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info:
>http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


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From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Comanche Peak ML Rendezvous
Date: 07 May 2002 23:02:54 -0500

We are burning up and you are flooding?  W;hat is wrong with this picture?
Don


Yeah, Don.  We are about 12 inches ahead of our normal 4 month average total
and some areas are at least 20 inches ahead.  To compare, we average about
34 inches of rain per year...most of the time.  Part of the road into the
CPM site was knee deep in water as late as Sunday afternoon.  It's storming
all to be damned out to the west about 100 miles with that and other storms
moving this way.  I had to go out about 80 miles west of Abilene yesterday
and the croplands look like swamps.  I would hate to be a
farmer......anywhere.
Lanney


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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Comanche Peak ML Rendezvous
Date: 08 May 2002 00:16:39 EDT


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One of the great things about living in Texas is that they have two
rendezvous seasons, Spring and Fall-- too hot in the summer.  When I lived in
Dallas I attended all the local ones and Commanche Peak was always an
excellent doins along with many of the others.

Ron Harris!!! Where are ya?  Send me an email.

Patrick J. Surrena
Jim Baker Party, The American Mountain Men, #1449
Colorado

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>One of the great things about living in Texas is that they have two rendezvous seasons, Spring and Fall-- too hot in the summer.  When I lived in Dallas I attended all the local ones and Commanche Peak was always an excellent doins along with many of the others. <BR>
<BR>
Ron Harris!!! Where are ya?  Send me an email.<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#800000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Patrick J. Surrena<BR>
Jim Baker Party, The American Mountain Men, #1449<BR>
Colorado</FONT></HTML>

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From: "John McKee" <[e-mail]>
Subject:  MtMan-List: Texas Brother Help...off topic
Date: 08 May 2002 16:15:11 -0500

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Gentlemen,
    My boy has just been transferred from his unit in Germany { first =
cav.} and will be arriving in San Antonio, Texas in a couple of weeks. =
He will be stationed there for 6 years. He was in Germany for quiet a =
number of years so I thought he could use some good ol' Texas 'rules' so =
that he doesn't make an accidental fool out of himself when out in =
public. Any help would be appreciated [ tongue in cheek and otherwise ]. =
Thanks in advance.   Long John  #1677



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<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2715.400" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Bookman Old Style">Gentlemen,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Bookman Old Style">    My boy has just =
been=20
transferred from his unit in Germany { first cav.} and will be arriving =
in San=20
Antonio, Texas in a couple of weeks. He will be stationed there for =
6=20
years. He was in Germany for quiet a number of years so I thought he =
could use=20
some good ol' Texas 'rules' so that he doesn't make an accidental =
fool out=20
of himself when out in public. Any help would be appreciated [ tongue in =
cheek=20
and otherwise ]. Thanks in advance.   Long John =20
#1677</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Bookman Old Style"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica></FONT> </DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From: ALAN AVERY <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Texas Brother Help...off topic
Date: 08 May 2002 15:00:24 -0700

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"...some good ol' Texas 'rules' so that he doesn't make an accidental fool out of himself when out in public..."


Tell him not to forget the Alamo! (they get real cranky about that!!) <G>


Black Knife

(The smart-ass Canadian)

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<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Goudy>"...</FONT><FONT face="Bookman Old Style">some good
ol' Texas 'rules' so that he doesn't make an accidental fool out of himself
when out in public..."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style">Tell him not to forget the Alamo! (they get
real cranky about that!!) <G></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style">Black Knife</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style">(The smart-ass
Canadian)</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From: Phyllis and Don Keas <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Texas Brother Help...off topic
Date: 08 May 2002 17:46:52 -0600

Tell him not to worry...I've been making an accidental fool of myself for =
years and never fhave been to=20
Germany. Don

On Thursday, June 26, 1941, John McKee <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
>Gentlemen,
>=A0=A0=A0 My boy has just been transferred from his unit in Germany {
>first cav.} and will be arriving in San Antonio, Texas in a
>couple of weeks. He will be stationed there=A0for 6 years. He was
>in Germany for quiet a number of years so I thought he could
>use some good ol'=A0Texas 'rules' so that he doesn't make an
>accidental fool out of himself when out in public. Any help
>would be appreciated [ tongue in cheek and otherwise ]. Thanks
>in advance.=A0=A0 Long John=A0 #1677
>=A0
>=A0


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From: Phyllis and Don Keas <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Comanche Peak ML Rendezvous
Date: 08 May 2002 17:47:46 -0600

Sounds like you need ato know how to swim to go to any this year.  Don

On Wednesday, June 25, 1941, [e-mail] wrote:
>One of the great things about living in Texas is that they have
>two rendezvous seasons, Spring and Fall-- too hot in the
>summer.=A0 When I lived in Dallas I attended all the local ones
>and Commanche Peak was always an excellent doins along with
>many of the others.
>
> Ron Harris!!! Where are ya?=A0 Send me an email.
>
>Patrick J. Surrena
> Jim Baker Party, The American Mountain Men, #1449
> Colorado


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Phyllis and Don Keas <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Comanche Peak ML Rendezvous
Date: 08 May 2002 17:50:11 -0600

Farmer or not, sure looking forward to seeing you at the camp.  I'll only =
be able to be there from Fri nite to Monday on the opening weekend.  =
Looking forward to this one like you won't believe, and don't let Mike =
fool you..the tick couldn't have been more than an inch across.  Don

On Wednesday, June 25, 1941, Lanney Ratcliff <[e-mail]> =
wrote:
>We are burning up and you are flooding?  W;hat is wrong with this picture?=

>Don
>
>
>Yeah, Don.  We are about 12 inches ahead of our normal 4 month average =
total
>and some areas are at least 20 inches ahead.  To compare, we average =
about
>34 inches of rain per year...most of the time.  Part of the road into the
>CPM site was knee deep in water as late as Sunday afternoon.  It's =
storming
>all to be damned out to the west about 100 miles with that and other =
storms
>moving this way.  I had to go out about 80 miles west of Abilene =
yesterday
>and the croplands look like swamps.  I would hate to be a
>farmer......anywhere.
>Lanney
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info:
>http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


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From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re:  MtMan-List: Texas Brother Help...off topic
Date: 08 May 2002 20:31:07 -0500

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Long John
First, tell your son that we thank him for his service to our country.  =
Then tell him that we welcome him to Texas...."Like a whole 'nuther =
country"
When he gets to San Antonio he will find himself in the epicenter of =
Texas history.  The Alamo is right downtown... does that surprise =
anybody?......and there are several other old Missions around the area.  =
Goliad, where Fannin and his men were murdered by Santa Anna, is not far =
away nor is LaGrange where there is a monument to the Mier Expedition.  =
San Jacinto is just east of Houston.  In short I think your son will do =
well to learn a little about Texas and its history, and he should =
explore some of the historical (and otherwise interesting) sites that he =
will find within a day's drive of San Antonio.  He should get out and =
meet folks.  He shouldn't  hide the fact that he is a newcomer.....he =
will find practically all Texans to be friendly, generous people who =
will fall all over themselves to assist him in any way.  Ask any =
question and he will get a good answer (maybe accompanied with a little =
smile..but it won't be a condescending smile).  It will be good for him =
to learn the pronunciations of some of the oddly spelled places he might =
come across:  Burnet is Burn-it, not Burn-nette, Buda is Bew-da, not =
Boo-da, Iraan is Ira-ann not Eye-ran, Mexia is Mah-hay-uh, not Mex-e-uh =
(Mexia is sometimes pronounced my Muh-Hair by some old timers...like my =
grandmother). Waxahachie is Woks-ah-hachie,  not Wax-ah-hachie.  =
Tehuacana is pronounced Tah-wok-ah-nee, as is Towakani....both are small =
towns. Confused yet?  In short get to know the place.  The state =
publishes a great(free) guide book that he will find useful.
Most of all he should indulge the cuisine.  He should go first to =
Lockhart.....a short drive northeast of San Antonio...and visit Kreutz's =
Market, the home of the planet's best bar-be-que.  It is in a new barn =
of a building but the same owner has run it forever.  It is a totally no =
frills bbq place.  When he makes his way to the front of the line...and =
there will be a line, he will be asked what he would like.  His choices =
are limited: "fat", which is beef brisket and "lean" which is beef =
shoulder.  (Also available are thick smoked porkchops and a German style =
sausage ring, which are both good but are clearly the jurnior varsity in =
this place.)  He should decide quickly and tell the person how much he =
wants.....in pounds (or fractions if he feels dainty).  The meat will be =
carved before his eyes and piled on butcher paper.  If he is taking it =
home it will be put in a sack...not a bag (more idiom)....and he can go =
on his merry way.  If he wants to eat on the premises the meat will be =
served up on the butcher paper which will be twisted around to make a =
little serving "dish"....looks like a paper canoe, actually.  There are =
dozens of picnic style tables all over the building and a centrally =
located counter where he can purchase pickles, onions & peppers...no =
beans, no slaw, no potato salad, nothing like that all..... and of =
course a wide assortment of drinks.  A dark Shiner Bock beer is pretty =
popular.  Also, he shouldn't look for any bbq sauce...there ain't any.  =
The meat doesn't need it, but if you want it you must bring it with you. =
 This place is deadly serious about their bbq and rightly so.  It is the =
very best I have ever tasted....including my own, which is also world =
class.
After Kreutz'a bbq you son should explore the rest of the great bbq =
places in the area as well as the Tex-Mex food.  Not really =
Mexican......people from Santa Fe also turn up their noses...but at good =
places Tex-Mex is excellent.  He should know that Cabrito is not just =
roast goat, it is roast BABY goat....the whole critter, about the size =
of a big rabbit.  PETA folks almost never eat a places that sell =
Cabrito.
There is no end to what your son might be advised to do, but none is =
more important that what I said earlier....get out and meet the people.  =
He should tell them that he was born elsewhere, but he got to Texas as =
quickly as he could.  He will be treated like visiting royalty.  Tell =
him to look me up if he gets up near Ft Worth......I live in Cleburne =
and I'm in the book.
YF&B
Lanney
=20

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Long John</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>First, tell your son that we thank him for his =
service to our=20
country.  Then tell him that we welcome him to Texas...."Like a =
whole=20
'nuther country"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>When he gets to San Antonio he will find himself in =
the=20
epicenter of Texas history.  The Alamo is right downtown... does =
that=20
surprise anybody?......and there are several other old Missions around =
the=20
area.  Goliad, where Fannin and his men were murdered by Santa=20
Anna, is not far away nor is LaGrange where there is a =
monument to the=20
Mier Expedition.  San Jacinto is just east of Houston.  In =
short I=20
think your son will do well to learn a little about Texas and its =
history, and=20
he should explore some of the historical (and otherwise =
interesting) sites=20
that he will find within a day's drive of San Antonio.  He should =
get out=20
and meet folks.  He shouldn't  hide the fact that he is a =

newcomer.....he will find practically all Texans to be friendly, =
generous people=20
who will fall all over themselves to assist him in any way.  Ask =
any=20
question and he will get a good answer (maybe accompanied with a little=20
smile..but it won't be a condescending smile).  It will be good for =
him to=20
learn the pronunciations of some of the oddly spelled places he might =
come=20
across:  Burnet is Burn-it, not Burn-nette, Buda is Bew-da, not =
Boo-da,=20
Iraan is Ira-ann not Eye-ran, Mexia is Mah-hay-uh, not Mex-e-uh (Mexia =
is=20
sometimes pronounced my Muh-Hair by some old timers...like my =
grandmother).=20
Waxahachie is Woks-ah-hachie,  not Wax-ah-hachie.  Tehuacana =
is=20
pronounced Tah-wok-ah-nee, as is Towakani....both are small towns. =
Confused=20
yet? </FONT><FONT size=3D3><STRONG> </STRONG></FONT><FONT =
size=3D2>In=20
short get to know the place.  The state publishes a great(free) =
guide book=20
that he will find useful.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Most of all he should indulge the cuisine.  He =
should go=20
first to Lockhart.....a short drive northeast of San Antonio...and visit =

Kreutz's Market, the home of the planet's best bar-be-que.  It is =
in a new=20
barn of a building but the same owner has run it forever.  It is a =
totally=20
no frills bbq place.  When he makes his way to the front of the =
line...and=20
there will be a line, he will be asked what he would like.  His =
choices are=20
limited: "fat", which is beef brisket and "lean" which is beef =
shoulder. =20
(Also available are thick smoked porkchops and a German style sausage =
ring,=20
which are both good but are clearly the jurnior varsity in this =
place.)  He=20
should decide quickly and tell the person how much he wants.....in =
pounds (or=20
fractions if he feels dainty).  The meat will be carved before his =
eyes and=20
piled on butcher paper.  If he is taking it home it will be put in =
a=20
sack...not a bag (more idiom)....and he can go on his merry way.  =
If he=20
wants to eat on the premises the meat will be served up on the butcher =
paper=20
which will be twisted around to make a little serving "dish"....looks =
like a=20
paper canoe, actually.  There are dozens of picnic style tables all =
over=20
the building and a centrally located counter where he can purchase =
pickles,=20
onions & peppers...no beans, no slaw, no potato salad, nothing like =
that=20
all..... and of course a wide assortment of drinks.  A dark Shiner =
Bock=20
beer is pretty popular.  Also, he shouldn't look for any bbq=20
sauce...there ain't any.  The meat doesn't need it, but if you want =
it you=20
must bring it with you.  This place is deadly serious about their =
bbq and=20
rightly so.  It is the very best I have ever tasted....including my =
own,=20
which is also world class.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>After Kreutz'a bbq you son should explore the rest =
of the=20
great bbq places in the area as well as the Tex-Mex food.  Not =
really=20
Mexican......people from Santa Fe also turn up their noses...but at good =
places=20
Tex-Mex is excellent.  He should know that Cabrito is not just =
roast goat,=20
it is roast BABY goat....the whole critter, about the size of a big =

rabbit.  PETA folks almost never eat a places that sell=20
Cabrito.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>There is no end to what your son might be advised to =
do, but=20
none is more important that what I said earlier....get out and meet the=20
people.  He should tell them that he was born elsewhere, but he got =
to=20
Texas as quickly as he could.  He will be treated like visiting=20
royalty.  Tell him to look me up if he gets up near Ft Worth......I =
live in=20
Cleburne and I'm in the book.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>YF&B</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Lanney</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3><STRONG> </STRONG></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Texas Brother Help...off topic
Date: 08 May 2002 21:41:50 EDT

Long John
June 6-9 San Antonio is having the annual Texas Folklife Festival at the
Institute of Texan Cultures (near the Alamo and Hemisphere Plaza).  Tell him
to wear his walking shoes and enjoy the different cultures exhibits, demos,
and mostly the food and the beer.  I will be at what they call the back 40
with the Texas Army, I will be demonstrating my leatherworking ability and
weaving if he is interested.

Frank Sablan
ps.  tell him to be himself, we are all one big melting pot of individuals

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Texas Brother Help...off topic
Date: 08 May 2002 21:49:21 EDT


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Long Jhon;Tell yer boy thank you for me! Me and mine will show ANY service
man all the hospitality we can!One thing you May want to tell him,The Alamo
is just the mission,no it aint bigger! HEEHEE  great country around
SanAntone! I'm about 100 miles south east of it in a little town called
Inez.If he wants to do a road trip have him yell at me and I'll take him to
some historical sights around here(including the first capital of TX)

                      Jim Branson

                         Inez Tx

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0">Long Jhon;Tell yer boy thank you for me! Me and mine will show ANY service man all the hospitality we can!One thing you May want to tell him,The Alamo is just the mission,no it aint bigger! HEEHEE  great country around SanAntone! I'm about 100 miles south east of it in a little town called Inez.If he wants to do a road trip have him yell at me and I'll take him to some historical sights around here(including the first capital of TX)<BR>
                                                                                                    Jim Branson<BR>
                                                                                                       Inez Tx</FONT></HTML>

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From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re:  MtMan-List: Texas Brother Help...off topic
Date: 08 May 2002 20:48:22 -0500

Lanney,

You forgot to mention that Comfort is only 10 miles from Welfare.

John...


At 08:31 PM 5/8/02, you wrote:
>Long John
>First, tell your son that we thank him for his service to our
>country.  Then tell him that we welcome him to Texas...."Like a whole
>'nuther country"
>When he gets to San Antonio he will find himself in the epicenter of Texas
>history.  The Alamo is right downtown... does that surprise
>anybody?......and there are several other old Missions around the
>area.  Goliad, where Fannin and his men were murdered by Santa Anna, is
>not far away nor is LaGrange where there is a monument to the Mier
>Expedition.  San Jacinto is just east of Houston.  In short I think your
>son will do well to learn a little about Texas and its history, and he
>should explore some of the historical (and otherwise interesting) sites
>that he will find within a day's drive of San Antonio.  He should get out
>and meet folks.  He shouldn't  hide the fact that he is a newcomer.....he
>will find practically all Texans to be friendly, generous people who will
>fall all over themselves to assist him in any way.  Ask any question and
>he will get a good answer (maybe accompanied with a little smile..but it
>won't be a condescending smile).  It will be good for him to learn the
>pronunciations of some of the oddly spelled places he might come
>across:  Burnet is Burn-it, not Burn-nette, Buda is Bew-da, not Boo-da,
>Iraan is Ira-ann not Eye-ran, Mexia is Mah-hay-uh, not Mex-e-uh (Mexia is
>sometimes pronounced my Muh-Hair by some old timers...like my
>grandmother). Waxahachie is Woks-ah-hachie,  not Wax-ah-hachie.  Tehuacana
>is pronounced Tah-wok-ah-nee, as is Towakani....both are small towns.
>Confused yet?  In short get to know the place.  The state publishes a
>great(free) guide book that he will find useful.
>Most of all he should indulge the cuisine.  He should go first to
>Lockhart.....a short drive northeast of San Antonio...and visit Kreutz's
>Market, the home of the planet's best bar-be-que.  It is in a new barn of
>a building but the same owner has run it forever.  It is a totally no
>frills bbq place.  When he makes his way to the front of the line...and
>there will be a line, he will be asked what he would like.  His choices
>are limited: "fat", which is beef brisket and "lean" which is beef
>shoulder.  (Also available are thick smoked porkchops and a German style
>sausage ring, which are both good but are clearly the jurnior varsity in
>this place.)  He should decide quickly and tell the person how much he
>wants.....in pounds (or fractions if he feels dainty).  The meat will be
>carved before his eyes and piled on butcher paper.  If he is taking it
>home it will be put in a sack...not a bag (more idiom)....and he can go on
>his merry way.  If he wants to eat on the premises the meat will be served
>up on the butcher paper which will be twisted around to make a little
>serving "dish"....looks like a paper canoe, actually.  There are dozens of
>picnic style tables all over the building and a centrally located counter
>where he can purchase pickles, onions & peppers...no beans, no slaw, no
>potato salad, nothing like that all..... and of course a wide assortment
>of drinks.  A dark Shiner Bock beer is pretty popular.  Also, he shouldn't
>look for any bbq sauce...there ain't any.  The meat doesn't need it, but
>if you want it you must bring it with you.  This place is deadly serious
>about their bbq and rightly so.  It is the very best I have ever
>tasted....including my own, which is also world class.
>After Kreutz'a bbq you son should explore the rest of the great bbq places
>in the area as well as the Tex-Mex food.  Not really Mexican......people
>from Santa Fe also turn up their noses...but at good places Tex-Mex is
>excellent.  He should know that Cabrito is not just roast goat, it is
>roast BABY goat....the whole critter, about the size of a big
>rabbit.  PETA folks almost never eat a places that sell Cabrito.
>There is no end to what your son might be advised to do, but none is more
>important that what I said earlier....get out and meet the people.  He
>should tell them that he was born elsewhere, but he got to Texas as
>quickly as he could.  He will be treated like visiting royalty.  Tell him
>to look me up if he gets up near Ft Worth......I live in Cleburne and I'm
>in the book.
>YF&B
>Lanney
>

Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
John Kramer  <[e-mail]>


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From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fw: MtMan-List: Texas Brother Help...off topic
Date: 08 May 2002 21:13:16 -0500

Right on, John, both right there in Kendall county not far from San Antonio.
The only Union civil war memorial in the entire south is in Comfort.  Who'da
thunk it.
Lanney
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 8:48 PM


> Lanney,
>
> You forgot to mention that Comfort is only 10 miles from Welfare.
>
> John...
>
>
> At 08:31 PM 5/8/02, you wrote:
> >Long John
> >First, tell your son that we thank him for his service to our
> >country.  Then tell him that we welcome him to Texas...."Like a whole
> >'nuther country"
> >When he gets to San Antonio he will find himself in the epicenter of
Texas
> >history.  The Alamo is right downtown... does that surprise
> >anybody?......and there are several other old Missions around the
> >area.  Goliad, where Fannin and his men were murdered by Santa Anna, is
> >not far away nor is LaGrange where there is a monument to the Mier
> >Expedition.  San Jacinto is just east of Houston.  In short I think your
> >son will do well to learn a little about Texas and its history, and he
> >should explore some of the historical (and otherwise interesting) sites
> >that he will find within a day's drive of San Antonio.  He should get out
> >and meet folks.  He shouldn't  hide the fact that he is a newcomer.....he
> >will find practically all Texans to be friendly, generous people who will
> >fall all over themselves to assist him in any way.  Ask any question and
> >he will get a good answer (maybe accompanied with a little smile..but it
> >won't be a condescending smile).  It will be good for him to learn the
> >pronunciations of some of the oddly spelled places he might come
> >across:  Burnet is Burn-it, not Burn-nette, Buda is Bew-da, not Boo-da,
> >Iraan is Ira-ann not Eye-ran, Mexia is Mah-hay-uh, not Mex-e-uh (Mexia is
> >sometimes pronounced my Muh-Hair by some old timers...like my
> >grandmother). Waxahachie is Woks-ah-hachie,  not Wax-ah-hachie.
Tehuacana
> >is pronounced Tah-wok-ah-nee, as is Towakani....both are small towns.
> >Confused yet?  In short get to know the place.  The state publishes a
> >great(free) guide book that he will find useful.
> >Most of all he should indulge the cuisine.  He should go first to
> >Lockhart.....a short drive northeast of San Antonio...and visit Kreutz's
> >Market, the home of the planet's best bar-be-que.  It is in a new barn of
> >a building but the same owner has run it forever.  It is a totally no
> >frills bbq place.  When he makes his way to the front of the line...and
> >there will be a line, he will be asked what he would like.  His choices
> >are limited: "fat", which is beef brisket and "lean" which is beef
> >shoulder.  (Also available are thick smoked porkchops and a German style
> >sausage ring, which are both good but are clearly the jurnior varsity in
> >this place.)  He should decide quickly and tell the person how much he
> >wants.....in pounds (or fractions if he feels dainty).  The meat will be
> >carved before his eyes and piled on butcher paper.  If he is taking it
> >home it will be put in a sack...not a bag (more idiom)....and he can go
on
> >his merry way.  If he wants to eat on the premises the meat will be
served
> >up on the butcher paper which will be twisted around to make a little
> >serving "dish"....looks like a paper canoe, actually.  There are dozens
of
> >picnic style tables all over the building and a centrally located counter
> >where he can purchase pickles, onions & peppers...no beans, no slaw, no
> >potato salad, nothing like that all..... and of course a wide assortment
> >of drinks.  A dark Shiner Bock beer is pretty popular.  Also, he
shouldn't
> >look for any bbq sauce...there ain't any.  The meat doesn't need it, but
> >if you want it you must bring it with you.  This place is deadly serious
> >about their bbq and rightly so.  It is the very best I have ever
> >tasted....including my own, which is also world class.
> >After Kreutz'a bbq you son should explore the rest of the great bbq
places
> >in the area as well as the Tex-Mex food.  Not really Mexican......people
> >from Santa Fe also turn up their noses...but at good places Tex-Mex is
> >excellent.  He should know that Cabrito is not just roast goat, it is
> >roast BABY goat....the whole critter, about the size of a big
> >rabbit.  PETA folks almost never eat a places that sell Cabrito.
> >There is no end to what your son might be advised to do, but none is more
> >important that what I said earlier....get out and meet the people.  He
> >should tell them that he was born elsewhere, but he got to Texas as
> >quickly as he could.  He will be treated like visiting royalty.  Tell him
> >to look me up if he gets up near Ft Worth......I live in Cleburne and I'm
> >in the book.
> >YF&B
> >Lanney
> >
>
> Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
> John Kramer  <[e-mail]>
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "WindWalker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Announcement
Date: 08 May 2002 21:44:07 -0400

--=====_102090864726500=_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Here is something a few might be interested in,,,,
Be a good time for a get together in St Charles and Defiance. D. Boones=
 last home and place of death
Windwalker
WANTED

20 quality Buckskinners to demonstrate skills and interact with the Public


On Saturday, Oct. 12, 2002 the main downtown St. Louis Public Library, 1301=
 Olive St. in St. Louis will be hosting a Colonial Event. They are hosting=
 a travelling exhibit on George Washington, however this event will focus=
 on the period between approximately 1730 and 1800, either French or=
 American.
There is no fee to participate - this will be an opportunity for you to=
 share your love of living history with an audience that may not have much=
 or any experience with rendezvous or living history events. People who=
 really -like- answering questions about what they do and how=
 traders/trappers/frontiersmen lived would probably have more fun than=
 those who are less educationally minded.
Set-up could be as early as 8:30AM with teardown at 4-5PM that afternoon.
Water and bathrooms provided
If the weather is co-operative, there is some green space outside where you=
 can set up. Otherwise, there is space for set-up indoors.
The event will be comparable to some of the living history events at Faust=
 Park that the St. Louis County Parks department does, or the event at Shaw=
 Arboretum in Pacific every other September.

contact: Kathleen J. Smith , Librarian; History & Genealogy


--=====_102090864726500=_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial" text=#000000 bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Here is something a few might be interested
in,,,,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Be a good time for a get together in St Charles and Defiance.
D. Boones last home and place of death</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Windwalker</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<CENTER><B><U>WANTED</U><BR><BR>20 quality Buckskinners to demonstrate skills
and interact with the Public</B></CENTER><BR><BR>On Saturday, Oct. 12, 2002 the
main downtown St. Louis Public Library, 1301 Olive St. in St. Louis will be
hosting a Colonial Event. They are hosting a travelling exhibit on George
Washington, however this event will focus on the period between approximately
1730 and 1800, either French or American.<BR>There is no fee to participate -
this will be an opportunity for you to share your love of living history with an
audience that may not have much or any experience with rendezvous or living
history events. People who really -like- answering questions about what they do
and how traders/trappers/frontiersmen lived would probably have more fun than
those who are less educationally minded. <BR>Set-up could be as early as 8:30AM
with teardown at 4-5PM that afternoon.<BR>Water and bathrooms provided<BR>If the
weather is co-operative, there is some green space outside where you can set up.
Otherwise, there is space for set-up indoors.<BR>The event will be comparable to
some of the living history events at Faust Park that the St. Louis County Parks
department does, or the event at Shaw Arboretum in Pacific every other
September. <BR><BR>contact: <A
href="mailto: [e-mail] ?Subject=Notice on the MA Bip">Kathleen J.
Smith</A> , Librarian; History & Genealogy<BR></DIV></BODY></HTML>


--=====_102090864726500=_--


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From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Announcement
Date: 08 May 2002 21:34:53 -0600 (MDT)

> Here is something a few might be interested in,,,,
> Be a good time for a get together in St Charles and Defiance. D. Boones
> last home and place of death Windwalker
> WANTED
> Windwalker,
     I grew up in St. Louis before moving to Wyoming then Montana. I'd
love to attend that function but that is the beginning of hunting season
up here.Ahh.... who am I kidding, I'm also scared to death to go home as I
look so old now, its been 21 years since I boarded a bus with my backpack
to explore the west. I've never wanted to go back until I got into
mountain man history. Then I realized what a incredibly rich historical
state and town I grew up in.
     I paddled the Missouri River to Defiance and St. Charles in my youth.
We camped in Tavern Cave described by L&C in their journal.We paddled up
the Femme Osage River and camped, hunted, where the great Daniel Boone
took his last breathe. I've trapped beaver and called in my first gobbler
on the banks of Old Muddy Mo where every Mountain Man passed to get to the
land out west. My heart is firmly implanted in the beaver country of
Montana and my bones will bleach here but a part of me will always be in
St.Louis, my birth place.
     There is not a more historical place for a mountain man to visit than
ST. Louis. Hopefully a few of you can attend and can have a good guide to
show you just a few of the great sites to see.
               American Fur Company Forever!!!!!!!
                            Beaverboy
> 20 quality Buckskinners to demonstrate skills and interact with the
> Public
>
>
> On Saturday, Oct. 12, 2002 the main downtown St. Louis Public Library,
> 1301 Olive St. in St. Louis will be hosting a Colonial Event. They are
> hosting a travelling exhibit on George Washington, however this event
> will focus on the period between approximately 1730 and 1800, either
> French or American. There is no fee to participate - this will be an
> opportunity for you to share your love of living history with an
> audience that may not have much or any experience with rendezvous or
> living history events. People who really -like- answering questions
> about what they do and how traders/trappers/frontiersmen lived would
> probably have more fun than those who are less educationally minded.
> Set-up could be as early as 8:30AM with teardown at 4-5PM that
> afternoon. Water and bathrooms provided
> If the weather is co-operative, there is some green space outside where
> you can set up. Otherwise, there is space for set-up indoors. The event
> will be comparable to some of the living history events at Faust Park
> that the St. Louis County Parks department does, or the event at Shaw
> Arboretum in Pacific every other September.
>
> contact: Kathleen J. Smith , Librarian; History & Genealogy




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "WindWalker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Announcement
Date: 08 May 2002 22:44:10 -0400

You like I and Hawk all have walked the Missouri.
So much there has changed over the years indeed....
I used to shot in Defiance and still go there regular
though not to shoot... the whole area has changed..
I to have canoed the Missouri and it does have a
every present lure.. Tavern Cave is now so grown up
would not know St Lou downtown now and even fewer
could pin the Hawken Shop location.... its in a maze of roads
the ole St Louis Fur Building is still standing and has its sign still
in place.. al though deserted and a place for gangs to roam..
Ah the smell of sweet grass on the Mississippi and mighty Mo
Windwalker


*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 5/8/02 at 9:34 PM [e-mail] wrote:

>> Here is something a few might be interested in,,,,
>> Be a good time for a get together in St Charles and Defiance. D. Boones
>> last home and place of death Windwalker
>> WANTED
>> Windwalker,
>     I grew up in St. Louis before moving to Wyoming then Montana. I'd
>love to attend that function but that is the beginning of hunting season
>up here.Ahh.... who am I kidding, I'm also scared to death to go home as I
>look so old now, its been 21 years since I boarded a bus with my backpack
>to explore the west. I've never wanted to go back until I got into
>mountain man history. Then I realized what a incredibly rich historical
>state and town I grew up in.
>     I paddled the Missouri River to Defiance and St. Charles in my youth.
>We camped in Tavern Cave described by L&C in their journal.We paddled up
>the Femme Osage River and camped, hunted, where the great Daniel Boone
>took his last breathe. I've trapped beaver and called in my first gobbler
>on the banks of Old Muddy Mo where every Mountain Man passed to get to the
>land out west. My heart is firmly implanted in the beaver country of
>Montana and my bones will bleach here but a part of me will always be in
>St.Louis, my birth place.
>     There is not a more historical place for a mountain man to visit than
>ST. Louis. Hopefully a few of you can attend and can have a good guide to
>show you just a few of the great sites to see.
>               American Fur Company Forever!!!!!!!
>                            Beaverboy
>> 20 quality Buckskinners to demonstrate skills and interact with the
>> Public
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, Oct. 12, 2002 the main downtown St. Louis Public Library,
>> 1301 Olive St. in St. Louis will be hosting a Colonial Event. They are
>> hosting a travelling exhibit on George Washington, however this event
>> will focus on the period between approximately 1730 and 1800, either
>> French or American. There is no fee to participate - this will be an
>> opportunity for you to share your love of living history with an
>> audience that may not have much or any experience with rendezvous or
>> living history events. People who really -like- answering questions
>> about what they do and how traders/trappers/frontiersmen lived would
>> probably have more fun than those who are less educationally minded.
>> Set-up could be as early as 8:30AM with teardown at 4-5PM that
>> afternoon. Water and bathrooms provided
>> If the weather is co-operative, there is some green space outside where
>> you can set up. Otherwise, there is space for set-up indoors. The event
>> will be comparable to some of the living history events at Faust Park
>> that the St. Louis County Parks department does, or the event at Shaw
>> Arboretum in Pacific every other September.
>>
>> contact: Kathleen J. Smith , Librarian; History & Genealogy
>
>
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Double Edge Forge" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: BIG site update
Date: 09 May 2002 10:13:58 -0400

Hello All,
 Please excuse the cross posting and shameless self-promotion, but I just
did a BIG site update. Also a "Other Crap For Sale" page..<G>
Take a look, help me support my habits! (living indoors, at least some of
the time, food, ball, powder, Whisky, and bribing the Good Wife to allow the
above habits and not to kill me when I sleep)

http://www.bright.net/~deforge1/

Thanks
D

   "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
            DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
       Knives and Iron Accouterments
      http://www.bright.net/~deforge1

   "Knowing how is just the beginning."


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Frank" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Texan brother
Date: 09 May 2002 09:26:00 -0500

    Best thing for keeping that brother happy is to suggest he move to
Arkansas. :-)
Frank G. Fusco
Mountain Home, Arkansas
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/ozarksmuzzleloaders


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Henry B. Crawford" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Texas Brother Help...
Date: 09 May 2002 10:45:20 -0500

He should visit Castroville, just west of SA on US 90.  Visit the Landmark
inn, a Texas Parks and Wildlife Dept. state historic site and museum.  It
was the first stop on the stage and freight road west to El Paso and Los
Angeles (See Wayne Austerman, _Sharps Rifles and Spanish Mules_).  One can
visit the ford at the crossing on the Medina River, and the remains of the
old freight wagon scale are still visible.  The Inn has a great giftshop
that sells good books and a few period repros.  He should have dinner at
the Alsatian Restaurant.  Castroville was settled by Alsatians in the mid
to late 1840s, and settlement continued through the 1860s.  Having been in
Germany so long, this culture group would be familiar to him.  The
Alsatians lived (and still live) on Germany's west border with France, in
the area known as Alsace-Lorraine.

From Castroville he's only about 90 or so miles (a short hop by western
standards) to Bracketville to the west.  Bracketville has the Alamo Village
movie set and Fort Clark, a military post which was established to control
Indian and bandit activity on the border.  It is also the home of the last
of the Seminole Negro Indian Scouts, some of whom were Medal of Honor
recipients.  Some of their graves are located on the post and their
descendants still live in the area on both sides of the border.

HBC
(aka Double Mountains)

***********************************
Henry B. Crawford
Curator of History
Museum of Texas Tech University
Box 43191
Lubbock, TX  79409-3191
[e-mail]
806/742-2442, ext 255   FAX [phone]
Website: http://www.museum.ttu.edu
***Living History . . . Because It's There***



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Joe Brandl <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: help with scouts
Date: 09 May 2002 11:55:10 -0600

I am asking if there is anyone available on July 8, that might be
able to ferry some vehicles for our scout troop from the Carbella
campground below Gardiner on the Yellowstone to Columbus Mt. We are
taking a summer canoe trip for one week. Our plans are to leave
Dubois, drive to Carella on Sunday the 7th and begin canoeing the
river on the morning of the 8th. We expect to arrive in Columbus at
Itch-Kep-Pe park on the 14th and need our vehicles parked there with
the canoe trailer. We do have some adults to assist us, but may need
a few drivers to move other vehicles. If you live near the area and
would be able to assist us, I would greatly apprieate it.

many thanks
joe brandl
307-455-2440 w
307-455-3816 h
--
Please visit our web site @ www.absarokawesterndesign.com
Call us for spring discounts on hair on deer and elk skins
Great selection of elk and buffalo rawhide in stock

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From: "WindWalker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: help with scouts
Date: 09 May 2002 13:09:12 -0400

I will be at my property at Devils Slide just north
of Gardiner  at about that time.
I plan a hike sometime in that timeframe to
Rattlesnake Gulch { at northgate} back country
area Yellowstone
The campground.. are you talking of the one below the best western?
or one close to TRW?
I will recheck my schedule to make sure, But Im planning on being around
area or in Livingston a visiting.. There a bar there {grin} called the=
 Sport
was the haunt of Calimity Jane.. rather a nice plce to eat...
I will be in party of one other adult, we will have canoe and ksyak with us
but doubt will use them...
Windwalker
let me know as well as I will you on plans
if Im needed



*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 5/9/02 at 11:55 AM Joe Brandl wrote:

>I am asking if there is anyone available on July 8, that might be
>able to ferry some vehicles for our scout troop from the Carbella
>campground below Gardiner on the Yellowstone to Columbus Mt. We are
>taking a summer canoe trip for one week. Our plans are to leave
>Dubois, drive to Carella on Sunday the 7th and begin canoeing the
>river on the morning of the 8th. We expect to arrive in Columbus at
>Itch-Kep-Pe park on the 14th and need our vehicles parked there with
>the canoe trailer. We do have some adults to assist us, but may need
>a few drivers to move other vehicles. If you live near the area and
>would be able to assist us, I would greatly apprieate it.
>
>many thanks
>joe brandl
>307-455-2440 w
>307-455-3816 h
>--
>Please visit our web site @ www.absarokawesterndesign.com
>Call us for spring discounts on hair on deer and elk skins
>Great selection of elk and buffalo rawhide in stock
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html




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From: "larry pendleton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Texas Brother Help...off topic
Date: 09 May 2002 16:44:36 -0700

Lanney wrote :
After Kreutz'a bbq you son should explore the rest of the great bbq places
in the area as well as the Tex-Mex food.  Not really Mexican......people
from Santa Fe also turn up their noses...but at good places Tex-Mex is
excellent.  He should know that Cabrito is not just roast goat, it is roast
BABY goat....the whole critter, about the size of a big rabbit.  PETA folks
almost never eat a places that sell Cabrito

>>Lanney Roux left off the best place to get Cabrito.  Go to a place just
off
the Mexican Market in San Antonio named Mi Tierra's.  Not sure of the
spellin, but that's close.  The place has been there for generations.  I
think it goes back to the Pancho Villa days.
Enjoy it !
LP



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From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: Hudson Bay blankets
Date: 09 May 2002 21:59:52 EDT


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Was wonderin ifin anyone might know anything about OLD HB blankets? Have
inherited 2 rainbow pattern 4 points that are from the late 19th century that
we know .Can get pics of the label if it would help, Many thanks
                                             Jim Branson

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0">Was wonderin ifin anyone might know anything about OLD HB blankets? Have inherited 2 rainbow pattern 4 points that are from the late 19th century that we know .Can get pics of the label if it would help, Many thanks<BR>
                                             Jim Branson</FONT></HTML>

--part1_f9.1bedfde1.2a0c8398_boundary--

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From: "Tom Roberts" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Hudson Bay blankets
Date: 09 May 2002 22:22:15 -0400

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Jim,

My understanding is that the 4 points arent as old as the fur trade =
prime. Also I believe solid color more typical.   Lists of trade goods =
in our timeframe typically show 3pts and some 3 1/2 pts.  Lot's of good =
knowledge on these is available at the Museum of the Fur Trade in =
Chadron.  I've attached their email address as well as a link to the =
index of their quarterly journal, which I highly recommend.  You might =
wish to become a subscriber as their information is well researched.  =
They have what may be the best collection of point blankets around, =
including what is believed to be one of the oldest documented point =
blankets, dated to the Rev war. Their collection of fur trade artifacts =
and trade guns is well worth the drive from anywhere in the country. =20

[e-mail]
E-mail Address(es):
  [e-mail]

http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/html/mftq.html
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: [e-mail]=20
  To: [e-mail]=20
  Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 9:59 PM
  Subject: MtMan-List: Hudson Bay blankets


  Was wonderin ifin anyone might know anything about OLD HB blankets? =
Have inherited 2 rainbow pattern 4 points that are from the late 19th =
century that we know .Can get pics of the label if it would help, Many =
thanks
                                               Jim Branson=20

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2713.1100" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Jim,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>My understanding is that the 4 points =
arent as old=20
as the fur trade prime. Also I believe solid color more =
typical. =20
 Lists of trade goods in our timeframe typically show 3pts and some =
3 1/2=20
pts.  Lot's of good knowledge on these is available at the =
Museum of=20
the Fur Trade in Chadron.  I've attached their email address as =
well as a=20
link to the index of their quarterly journal, which I highly =
recommend. =20
You might wish to become a subscriber as their information is well=20
researched.  </FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>They have what may =
be the best=20
collection of point blankets around, including what is believed to be =
one of=20
the oldest documented point blankets, dated to the Rev war. Their=20
collection of fur trade artifacts and trade guns is well worth the drive =
from=20
anywhere in the country.  </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A><BR>E-mail=20
Address(es):<BR>  <A=20
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/html/mftq.html">http://www.x=
mission.com/~drudy/mtman/html/mftq.html</A></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=[e-mail]=20
  href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=[e-mail]=20
  href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, May 09, 2002 =
9:59=20
PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> MtMan-List: Hudson Bay =

  blankets</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT><BR></DIV><FONT=20
  face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT lang=3D0 face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D2=20
  FAMILY=3D"SERIF">Was wonderin ifin anyone might know anything about =
OLD HB=20
  blankets? Have inherited 2 rainbow pattern 4 points that are from the =
late=20
  19th century that we know .Can get pics of the label if it would help, =
Many=20
  =
thanks<BR>          &nb=
sp;           &nbs=
p;            =
;         =20
  Jim Branson</FONT> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From: "Frank" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Hudson Bay blankets
Date: 10 May 2002 07:03:01 -0500

Jim Branson asked,
    <Was wonderin ifin anyone might know anything about OLD HB blankets? >
    Uh.....Jim, have you thought about asking the Hudson Bay company?  They
are very much still in business and are big on their own history.  They have
a web site that you can find with a simple search.
Frank G. Fusco
Mountain Home, Arkansas
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/ozarksmuzzleloaders


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From: "Ned Eddins" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: H. Lane trap
Date: 10 May 2002 07:48:54 -0600

Could someone please give me information on a circular single spring jump
trap stamped H. Lane. I am interested in where it was made and what time
period it was used. There is a picture in Firearms, Traps, & Tools of the
Mountain Men by Russell page 106 - 19b that looks like it except for having
two spring instead of one.

Thanks for the help,

Ned
[e-mail]




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From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: Have a look at my camp
Date: 10 May 2002 13:08:16 EDT


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Hello in the camps!
Thought ya might want to have a look at my camp I've put together here in
cyber space. It's my first attempt at this it my not be the best but it's a
start. I'm still working on it and there will be more coming, Have a look
around.
<A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/gazingcyot/index.htm">http://members.tripod.com/gazingcyot/index.htm</A>

See ya on the trail
Crazy Cyot


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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Hello in the camps!
<BR>Thought ya might want to have a look at my camp I've put together here in cyber space. It's my first attempt at this it my not be the best but it's a start. I'm still working on it and there will be more coming, Have a look around.
<BR><A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/gazingcyot/index.htm">http://members.tripod.com/gazingcyot/index.htm</A>
<BR>
<BR>See ya on the trail
<BR>Crazy Cyot
<BR></FONT></HTML>

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Have a look at my camp
Date: 10 May 2002 13:33:32 EDT


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Nice job Craz...   Enjoyed it throughly.  Barney

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  COLOR="#0000a0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B>Nice job Craz...   Enjoyed it throughly.  Barney</B></FONT></HTML>

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From: "Gene Hickman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Have a look at my camp
Date: 10 May 2002 11:44:42 -0600

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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    charset="iso-8859-1"
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Crazy that's a great website, I enjoyed it. I have book marked it to =
check and see occassionally what you've added. I do have one question: =
Who's the old "geezer" in all the pictures with Jill?

Bead Shooter
  From: [e-mail]=20


  Hello in the camps!=20
  Thought ya might want to have a look at my camp I've put together here =
in cyber space. It's my first attempt at this it my not be the best but =
it's a start. I'm still working on it and there will be more coming, =
Have a look around.=20
  http://members.tripod.com/gazingcyot/index.htm=20

  See ya on the trail=20
  Crazy Cyot=20


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.100" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Crazy that's a great website, I enjoyed =
it. I have=20
book marked it to check and see occassionally what you've added. I do =
have one=20
question: Who's the old "geezer" in all the pictures with =
Jill?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Bead Shooter</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=[e-mail]=20
  href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A> </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><BR></DIV><FONT =
face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT=20
  size=3D2>Hello in the camps! <BR>Thought ya might want to have a look =
at my camp=20
  I've put together here in cyber space. It's my first attempt at this =
it my not=20
  be the best but it's a start. I'm still working on it and there will =
be more=20
  coming, Have a look around. <BR><A=20
  =
href=3D"http://members.tripod.com/gazingcyot/index.htm">http://members.tr=
ipod.com/gazingcyot/index.htm</A>=20
  <BR><BR>See ya on the trail <BR>Crazy Cyot=20
<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>

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From: "Addison Miller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Have a look at my camp
Date: 10 May 2002 15:11:52 -0400

OUTSTANDING page, Crazy.... Very well done...

Regards,

Ad Miller


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From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: H. Lane trap
Date: 10 May 2002 14:13:24 -0600 (MDT)

> Could someone please give me information on a circular single spring
> jump trap stamped H. Lane. I am interested in where it was made and
> what time period it was used. There is a picture in Firearms, Traps, &
> Tools of the Mountain Men by Russell page 106 - 19b that looks like it
> except for having two spring instead of one.
>
> Thanks for the help,
>
> Ned
> [e-mail]
>
> Ned,
      I looked in my copy of "The Steel Trap in North America" by Gerstell
and it showed no references to that name. I then looked at Russell's
drawing that you listed. More than likely it is very old and made by a
local blacksmith. Was the name crudely stamped? Or a machine or tool
stamped? If its crude you probably have a good one. There are also other
trap buying guides listed in the back of Fur-Fish-Game. You might also
find a trap collector who could tell you about it. They advertise in The
Trapper and F-F&G. Good luck.
               Beaverboy
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html




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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Have a look at my camp
Date: 10 May 2002 17:26:38 EDT


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Crazy Looks great hope to see you and Jill at National
Mark Roadkill

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Crazy Looks great hope to see you and Jill at National
<BR>Mark Roadkill</FONT></HTML>

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From: "WindWalker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Have a look at my camp
Date: 10 May 2002 17:45:24 -0400

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After some severe lookings at yer page, I must tip
my Hat to you and  Say well done..
Ah the smell of woodsmoke....
WindWalker
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 5/10/02 at 1:08 PM [e-mail] wrote:
Hello in the camps!
Thought ya might want to have a look at my camp I've put together here in=
 cyber space. It's my first attempt at this it my not be the best but it's=
 a start. I'm still working on it and there will be more coming, Have a=
 look around.
http://members.tripod.com/gazingcyot/index.htm

See ya on the trail
Crazy Cyot


--=====_102106712419169=_
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV>After some severe lookings at yer page, I must tip</DIV>
<DIV>my Hat to you and  Say well done..</DIV>
<DIV>Ah the smell of woodsmoke....</DIV>
<DIV>WindWalker<BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>*********** REPLY SEPARATOR
***********<BR><BR>On 5/10/02 at 1:08 PM [e-mail] wrote:</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid"><FONT
  face=arial,helvetica><FONT size=2>Hello in the camps! <BR>Thought ya might
  want to have a look at my camp I've put together here in cyber space. It's my
  first attempt at this it my not be the best but it's a start. I'm still
  working on it and there will be more coming, Have a look around. <BR><A
  href="http://members.tripod.com/gazingcyot/index.htm">http://members.tripod.com/gazingcyot/index.htm</A>
  <BR><BR>See ya on the trail <BR>Crazy Cyot <BR></FONT><FONT size=2
Arial></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>


--=====_102106712419169=_--


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From: Linda Holley <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Have a look at my camp
Date: 10 May 2002 18:55:41 -0400


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Great job and I love the women's pictures.  Lots of guts and work
to go out with them guys.

Linda Holley

[e-mail] wrote:

> Nice job Craz...   Enjoyed it throughly.  Barney

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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
Great job and I love the women's pictures.  Lots of guts and work
to go out with them guys.
<p>Linda Holley
<p>[e-mail] wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE><b><font face="Comic Sans MS"><font color="#0000A0"><font size=-1>Nice
job Craz...   Enjoyed it throughly.  Barney</font></font></font></b></blockquote>
</html>

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From: Todd Glover <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Have a look at my camp
Date: 10 May 2002 17:23:29 -0600

This message is in MIME format.  Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

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Looks great hoss! Imagine how good our party site would look if each
member did a personal site like you did! I have some exciting things in
the works for the party site, but I don't want to divulge until I have it
wrapped up.

Keep it up!

Teton

On Fri, 10 May 2002 13:08:16 EDT [e-mail] writes:
Hello in the camps!
Thought ya might want to have a look at my camp I've put together here in
cyber space. It's my first attempt at this it my not be the best but it's
a start. I'm still working on it and there will be more coming, Have a
look around.
http://members.tripod.com/gazingcyot/index.htm

See ya on the trail
Crazy Cyot




"Teton" Todd D. Glover #1784
http://poisonriverparty.homestead.com
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV>Looks great hoss! Imagine how good our party site would look if each =
member=20
did a personal site like you did! I have some exciting things in the works =
for=20
the party site, but I don't want to divulge until I have it wrapped up.</=
DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Keep it up!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Teton</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>On Fri, 10 May 2002 13:08:16 EDT <A=20
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A> writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 10px; PADDING-LEFT: =
10px">
  <DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D2>Hello in the camps! <BR>=
Thought=20
  ya might want to have a look at my camp I've put together here in cyber =
space.=20
  It's my first attempt at this it my not be the best but it's a start. I'm=
=20
  still working on it and there will be more coming, Have a look around. <=
BR><A=20
  href=3D"http://members.tripod.com/gazingcyot/index.htm">http://members.=
tripod.com/gazingcyot/index.htm</A>=20
  <BR><BR>See ya on the trail <BR>Crazy Cyot </DIV><BR></FONT></FONT>
  <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>"Teton" Todd D. Glover=20
#1784<BR>http://poisonriverparty.homestead.com<BR></BODY></HTML>

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From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 22:48:05 -0500
Date: 10 May 2002 21:48:43 -0600

Crazy
Great page!!!  Especially that shot of Chas Rauch's party reflected in the
water.
See you in a couple of weeks, brother.
Lanney



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From: Victoria Pate <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Texas Brother Help...off topic
Date: 11 May 2002 15:38:39 -0500

Hi John,

If your son is inclined to follow in your footsteps, there are
several fine ml groups in and around San Antonio.  If he
would like to experience the frontier/cowboy times, there
are Cowboy Action groups.

CPM ML, here in North Texas, has their next
Rendezvous in October. We Texians would be delighted
to have your son come up for it.  Hopefully, the land will
be dried out by then. <G>

Victoria

On Wed, 8 May 2002 21:49:21 EDT [e-mail] writes:
> Long Jhon;Tell yer boy thank you for me! Me and mine will show ANY
> service
> man all the hospitality we can!One thing you May want to tell
> him,The Alamo
> is just the mission,no it aint bigger! HEEHEE  great country around
> SanAntone! I'm about 100 miles south east of it in a little town
> called
> Inez.If he wants to do a road trip have him yell at me and I'll take
> him to
> some historical sights around here(including the first capital of
> TX)
>
>
>                       Jim Branson
>
>
>                          Inez Tx


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From: "Michael Powell" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Have a look at my camp
Date: 11 May 2002 20:15:16 -0600


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Crazy,
Awesome site!  Is the paper on the survival skills your Hivrano research =
paper?  Great job and really enjoyed reading it.  Early congratulations o=
n getting your requirements done.
YMHOS
Mike
PS Did you get my phone message about the horses the lady up my way wants=
 to give away? =20
 =20
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, May 10, 2002 11:12 AM
 =20
Hello in the camps! =20
Thought ya might want to have a look at my camp I've put together here in=
 cyber space. It's my first attempt at this it my not be the best but it'=
s a start. I'm still working on it and there will be more coming, Have a =
look around. =20
http://members.tripod.com/gazingcyot/index.htm =20

See ya on the trail =20
Crazy Cyot Get more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download : http://ex=
plorer.msn.com

------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C1F928.907B6AE0
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML><BODY STYLE=3D"font:10pt verdana; border:none;"><DIV>Crazy,</DIV> <=
DIV>Awesome site!  Is the paper on the survival skills your Hivrano =
research paper?  Great job and really enjoyed reading it.  =
;Early congratulations on getting your requirements done.</DIV> <DIV>YMHO=
S</DIV> <DIV>Mike</DIV> <DIV>PS Did you get my phone message about the ho=
rses the lady up my way wants to give away? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>=
 <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT:=
 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"F=
ONT: 10pt Arial">----- Original Message -----</DIV> <DIV style=3D"BACKGRO=
UND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt Arial; COLOR: black"><B>From:</B> GazeingCyot@cs=
.com</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, May 10, 2=
002 11:12 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>To:</B> hist_text@l=
ists.xmission.com</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Subject:</B> M=
tMan-List: Have a look at my camp</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><FONT face=3Dari=
al,helvetica><FONT size=3D2>Hello in the camps! <BR>Thought ya might want=
 to have a look at my camp I've put together here in cyber space. It's my=
 first attempt at this it my not be the best but it's a start. I'm still =
working on it and there will be more coming, Have a look around. <BR><A h=
ref=3D"http://members.tripod.com/gazingcyot/index.htm">http://members.tri=
pod.com/gazingcyot/index.htm</A> <BR><BR>See ya on the trail <BR>Crazy Cy=
ot <BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BODY></HTML><br clear=3Dall><hr>Get m=
ore from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download : <a href=3D'http://explore=
r.msn.com'>http://explorer.msn.com</a><br></p>

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Hudson Bay blankets
Date: 12 May 2002 07:39:34 EDT


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Frank,and list; Well I feel purty silly now!!! Never even thought about
lookin up Hudson Bay on the net! Thanks fer the "whop"on the haid! HEEHEE

         Jim Branson

               Inez TX

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0">Frank,and list; Well I feel purty silly now!!! Never even thought about lookin up Hudson Bay on the net! Thanks fer the "whop"on the haid! HEEHEE<BR>
                                                                                       Jim Branson<BR>
                                                                                             Inez TX</FONT></HTML>

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From: "Gretchen & Wynn Ormond" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: re: Have a look at my camp
Date: 12 May 2002 13:41:51 -0600 (Mountain Daylight Time)

Crazy

That is one fine site. Waugh!

All it needs is more pics of tall horses and a pretty lil mule.  Hey I didn
t ask you to ride her but damn that woulda made a fine photo wouldn't it?

Also my puter does not comprehend the pics the way you sent them.  I hope
you can try something else.

Thanks
Wynn Ormond

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From: Victoria Pate <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Hudson Bay blankets
Date: 12 May 2002 18:14:51 -0500


Mr. Branson,

In my three years on this list, I have learned all questions are
welcomed and encouraged.  The experienced and seasoned
MM views questions as an opportunity to teach and to broaden
the questioner's perspective, as evidenced in Tom Robert's
response to your query.  This is in keeping with the spirit of
the original MM as well as the spirit and intent of AMM.
Would you have been referred to, on HBC's web page,
the Museum of  the Fur Trade for further research on
HBC blankets? Would you have been encouraged to
go to Chadron to learn about Fur Trade artifacts
and trade guns?  I think not.

By all means, access data on the  net.  Also, continue to
come to this list wiith your questions.  You will get answers
plus more when you do.

Victoria


On Sun, 12 May 2002 07:39:34 EDT [e-mail] writes:
> Frank,and list; Well I feel purty silly now!!! Never even thought
> about
> lookin up Hudson Bay on the net! Thanks fer the "whop"on the haid!
> HEEHEE
>
>
>          Jim Branson
>
>
>                Inez TX


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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Hudson Bay blankets
Date: 12 May 2002 23:20:05 EDT


In a message dated 5/12/02 4:17:34 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< You will get answers
plus more when you do. >>

Victoria!  ...howareyah? Haven't heard from you since I sent you that great
picture of me on the island..... a little small perhaps, but still a good jpg.

Ymos,
Magpie

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From: "WindWalker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Hudson Bay blankets
Date: 12 May 2002 22:23:01 -0400

Magpie
You get over that flinch problem when shooting??
Windwalker

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 5/12/02 at 11:20 PM [e-mail] wrote:

>In a message dated 5/12/02 4:17:34 PM, [e-mail] writes:
>
><< You will get answers
>plus more when you do. >>
>
>Victoria!  ...howareyah? Haven't heard from you since I sent you that
>great
>picture of me on the island..... a little small perhaps, but still a good
>jpg.
>
>Ymos,
>Magpie
>
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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Hudson Bay blankets
Date: 12 May 2002 23:32:48 EDT


In a message dated 5/12/02 8:26:20 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< You get over that flinch problem when shooting??
Windwalker >>

Haaaaaa... flinch??!? ....hell that's a seizure!  <G>  Actually, I'm getting
kinda handy with my flinters... or at least not as bad as I crank it up to
be. Thanks for all the pointers though.

Magpie


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From: Victoria Pate <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Hudson Bay blankets
Date: 12 May 2002 23:37:06 -0500



On Sun, 12 May 2002 23:20:05 EDT [e-mail] writes:
> >
> Victoria!  ...howareyah?
 I just finished reading "The Long Rifle" by Stewart Edward
White.  Were you the one who mentioned the book a couple
of months ago?  Great book!

Haven't heard from you since I sent you
> that great  picture of me on the island..... a little small perhaps,
but still a
> good jpg.

Beautiful picture of the mountains. However,
I've noticed your propensity to make sure there is not a close
up of you.  Confidentially, I've heard about that ugly two inch wart on
the end of your nose.
C'mon, Magpie. It is not what is on the outside that counts, it is
what is on the inside that is important.  Think on the bright side.
You're learning to shoot better than you fly, and you made
headway in not sewing yourself (more than once or twice)
to the canvas when you made your diamond fly.  Things are
looking up! Who cares about a little (or big) o' wart on your
face?  Take a deep cleansing breath and let us see a close up!

 Victoria
 who doesn't judge a book by its cover




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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Hudson Bay blankets
Date: 13 May 2002 01:34:48 EDT


In a message dated 5/12/02 9:46:45 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< Beautiful picture of the mountains. However,
I've noticed your propensity to make sure there is not a close
up of you.  Confidentially, I've heard about that ugly two inch wart on
the end of your nose. >>

OK...okay..... here's a jpg of the Great Capt Lahti and me doin what we do
best....nuthin. I'm that strapping young man on the right (with the wart
removed). If you look close to the upper left, ya can see the wimmins running
from us.....<G>
<A HREF="http://www.members.aol.com/swcushing/Captandme.jpg">Captandme.jpg</A>
  http://www.members.aol.com/swcushing/Captandme.jpg

<< I just finished reading "The Long Rifle" by Stewart Edward
White.  Were you the one who mentioned the book a couple
of months ago?>>
Yup... I sure liked it too.....especially when "Don" sez his name is actually
"Dan"...as in Boone.

<< Think on the bright side.  You're learning to shoot better than you fly,
and you made
headway in not sewing yourself (more than once or twice) to the canvas when
you made your diamond fly.  Things are looking up!>>

Waitaminute... wait-a-minute! Ain't nothin fell off my plane on landing in
weeks! And... while me sewing needs a some improvement, the Doc sez my blood
level is getting back to normal, and my fingers are healing nicely....<G>

Ymos,
Magpie

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: re: Have a look at my camp
Date: 13 May 2002 03:36:50 EDT


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To all you that have Complimented me on the site thanks! Glade ya liked it. I
put an hour or two into putting it together.
Mike to answer your question if Mountaineer Survival Skills was my research
paper.
Well, I fell it is part of it, the part that documents and give's credence to
the others, Aux Aliment Du Pays food for thought, A Feast or Famine Camp,
Upper Missouri Gardening, That show my involvement in taking this research
into the field learning and using some of these plants and even growing some
of the not very abundant heirloom vegetables of the Hidatsa, Mandan, and
Aricara tribes.  Which all ties in to the documentation given in Mountaineer
Survial Skills. This part of the research I intend to keep adding to as I
share more plants and outings using them. Like the three day ride Wynn and I
took we managed to add to out fare on the trail with some plants. It's a good
thing that mule of Wynns don't sing much or I would have been addin some meat
to our fare also.
Wynn you said:
Also my puter does not comprehend the pics the way you sent them.  I hope
you can try something else.

I figured out the problem between you and that mule your puter cannot
comprehend that much Ugly I'll sending them one at a time to cut down on the
ugly some.

Linda
  There are a few good ladies that ride and camp with us and as for being
though all I can say is I'd rather cross a she Griz then Jill and some of
them other ladies.

Thanks agin
Crazy Cyot












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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>To all you that have Complimented me on the site thanks! Glade ya liked it. I put an hour or two into putting it together.
<BR>Mike to answer your question if Mountaineer Survival Skills was my research paper.
<BR>Well, I fell it is part of it, the part that documents and give's credence to the others, Aux Aliment Du Pays food for thought, A Feast or Famine Camp, Upper Missouri Gardening, That show my involvement in taking this research into the field learning and using some of these plants and even growing some of the not very abundant heirloom vegetables of the Hidatsa, Mandan, and Aricara tribes.  Which all ties in to the documentation given in Mountaineer Survial Skills. This part of the research I intend to keep adding to as I share more plants and outings using them. Like the three day ride Wynn and I took we managed to add to out fare on the trail with some plants. It's a good thing that mule of Wynns don't sing much or I would have been addin some meat to our fare also.
<BR>Wynn you said:
<BR>Also my puter does not comprehend the pics the way you sent them.  I hope
<BR>you can try something else.
<BR>
<BR>I figured out the problem between you and that mule your puter cannot comprehend that much Ugly I'll sending them one at a time to cut down on the ugly some.
<BR>
<BR>Linda
<BR>  There are a few good ladies that ride and camp with us and as for being though all I can say is I'd rather cross a she Griz then Jill and some of them other ladies.
<BR>
<BR>Thanks agin
<BR>Crazy Cyot
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR> </FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR>
<BR></FONT></HTML>

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Have a look at my camp
Date: 13 May 2002 09:28:17 EDT


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Crazy Cyot,

   Site looks great.  got it bookmarked and will add a link on my site as
soon as I get a chance.

Longshot
"Longshot's Rendezvous"
www.wizzywigweb.com/longshot/

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Crazy Cyot,
<BR>
<BR>   Site looks great.  got it bookmarked and will add a link on my site as soon as I get a chance.
<BR>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><B>Longshot
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></B>"Longshot's Rendezvous"
<BR>www.wizzywigweb.com/longshot/</FONT></HTML>

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From: Phyllis and Don Keas <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Have a look at my camp
Date: 13 May 2002 17:31:57 -0600

Couldn't help but notice that Jill seems to be doing all the work?  Don =
Keas

On Saturday, June 28, 1941, Gene Hickman <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
>Crazy that's a great website, I enjoyed it. I have book marked
>it to check and see occassionally what you've added. I do have
>one question: Who's the old "geezer" in all the pictures with Jill?
>=A0
>Bead Shooter
>
>From: [e-mail]
>
>Hello in the camps!
>Thought ya might want to have a look at my camp I've put
>together here in cyber space. It's my first attempt at this it
>my not be the best but it's a start. I'm still working on it
>and there will be more coming, Have a look around.
>http://members.tripod.com/gazingcyot/index.htm
><http://members.tripod.com/gazingcyot/index.htm>
>
>See ya on the trail
>Crazy Cyot
>


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From: "Gretchen & Wynn Ormond" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Hudson Bay blankets
Date: 13 May 2002 21:13:12 -0600 (Mountain Daylight Time)


-------Original Message-------

<< You get over that flinch problem when shooting??
Windwalker >>

Haaaaaa... flinch??!? ....hell that's a seizure! <G> Actually, I'm getting
kinda handy with my flinters... or at least not as bad as I crank it up to
be. Thanks for all the pointers though.

Magpie

Magpie is getting over a lot of things.

Over the hill
Over a barrell
Over Board
 . . .

Wynn


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From: "Gretchen & Wynn Ormond" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Have a look at my camp
Date: 13 May 2002 21:47:10 -0600 (Mountain Daylight Time)

-------Original Message-------


 . . . Like the three day ride Wynn and I took we managed to add to out
fare on the trail with some plants. It's a good thing that mule of Wynns don
t sing much or I would have been addin some meat to our fare also.
Wynn you said:
Also my puter does not comprehend the pics the way you sent them. I hope
you can try something else.

I figured out the problem between you and that mule your puter cannot
comprehend that much Ugly I'll sending them one at a time to cut down on the
ugly some.


Thanks agin
Crazy Cyot


Crazy I am stunned.  How could you be so unappreciative.  Why that mule
carried the blanket and tarps that kept you from freezing to death.  She
carried the shovel that dug the plants we breakfasted on, and the hawk that
helped make the fire that made the coffee that quenched your parched lips.
Least you remember we even figured out how to pack our rifles on her for a
spell, you did not talk so bad about her when she had your fine smoothie in
her possesion did you?

Here you are now owing your life and well being to that mule and you call
her . . . well that U word?  I am stunned.

Well I wont tell her you said it,  mules can hold a grudge ya know.  Course
you never know with fellers like Allen around they might whisper in her ear
( an easy task I might add).   Perhaps you should treat her real good next
time you meet up on the trail.  She likes to be itched around her ears, and
on the bottom of the neck.  She is especially fond of scratching on her ass
right next to the tail.

Ya maybe ya better scratch her ass next time ya see her.

WY

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From: Victoria Pate <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Hudson Bay blankets
Date: 14 May 2002 00:19:06 -0500



On Mon, 13 May 2002 01:34:48 EDT [e-mail] writes:
>
>
> OK...okay..... here's a jpg of the Great Capt Lahti and me doin what
> we do best....nuthin. I'm that strapping young man on the right (with
the
> wart removed). If you look close to the upper left, ya can see the
> wimmins running  from us.....<G>
> <A
>
HREF="http://www.members.aol.com/swcushing/Captandme.jpg">Captandme.jpg</
A>
>   http://www.members.aol.com/swcushing/Captandme.jpg

    Hey Magpie,
        Glad you decided to come clean!  The doctor did a great
 job-no scar. <G>  I'm not surprised to see a tankard in Capt.
 Lahti's hand.  But where's yours?

> << I just finished reading "The Long Rifle" by Stewart Edward
> White.  Were you the one who mentioned the book a couple
> of months ago?>>
> Yup... I sure liked it too.....especially when "Don" sez his name is
> actually
> "Dan"...as in Boone.

            My mailman, Gary, is a direct descendant of Daniel Boone.
 If I recollect the story correctly, Gary's family had one of Daniel
Boone's long rifles until a couple of years ago. The larger Boone
family pressured them for years to put the long rifle in the Boone
museum.  Gary's family finally capitulated, but they were sad
about it--especially Gary and his brothers, who are bp hunters.


> << Think on the bright side.  You're learning to shoot better than
> you fly,  and you made headway in not sewing yourself
>(more than once or twice) to the  canvas when  you made
> your diamond fly.  Things are looking up!>>
>
> Waitaminute... wait-a-minute! Ain't nothin fell off my plane on
> landing in weeks! And... while me sewing needs a some
> improvement, the Doc sez  my blood
> level is getting back to normal, and my fingers are healing
> nicely....<G>

I'm proud for you, Magpie!  With a lot of work in the next
10 years (or more), you just might turn out to be a fine
MM. <G>

 Victoria


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From: "Randal Bublitz" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Longrifle-Saga of Andy Burnett
Date: 13 May 2002 22:35:21 -0700

Hello,  For those who don't know.... The book "The Longrifle" is part of a
trilogy called "the saga of Andy Burnett".  The Lonrifle is a great story,
but is only the first part....  If you can find it, it's a great read. I
contacted the publisher a long time ago to try to encourage them to reprint
the whole saga.  They said..."we'll see...."   A friend had an old copy,
which he lent me to read.  Disney did a movie related to this story, as my
friend told me. Andy leaves the Mtns. and goes to california.  Marries a
senorita, starts a ranch "folded hills" and becomes involved in the Bear
Flag revolt....   Find it if you can...good read.     hardtack



>
> > << I just finished reading "The Long Rifle" by Stewart Edward
> > White.  Were you the one who mentioned the book a couple
> > of months ago?>>
> > Yup... I sure liked it too.....especially when "Don" sez his name is
> > actually
> > "Dan"...as in Boone.
>

--- Randal Bublitz
--- [e-mail]
we have NOT inherited the Earth from our fathers,
 we are Borrowing it f


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From: Mike Moore <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: history yeterday/ today
Date: 14 May 2002 07:01:55 -0600

    It is always surprising when you find information about
history in today's paper. (this is from the Rocky Mountian
News)
-from "today in history" Lewis and Clark left St.Louis on their
trip west.
-business section; The Canadian company Hudson Bay Co.
has decided to not renew the contract with the Martha Stewart Everday
line and Sears Canada will pick it up early next year.

Just can't see the Martha Stewart and HBC together.



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From: "rtlahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Hudson Bay blankets
Date: 14 May 2002 08:08:37 -0700



>     Hey Magpie,
>         Glad you decided to come clean!  The doctor did a great
>  job-no scar. <G>  I'm not surprised to see a tankard in Capt.
>  Lahti's hand.  But where's yours?

Ms. Victoria,

I am holding his tankard so that he does not spill it again. The man can not
hold his liqueur.

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'





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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Hudson Bay blankets
Date: 14 May 2002 13:34:53 EDT


In a message dated 5/13/02 8:16:43 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< Magpie is getting over a lot of things.

Over the hill
Over a barrell
Over Board >>

How about overextended, overindulgent, and overweight! <VBG> Thanks Wynn....
there's a few more "overs" I won't go into....

Magpie

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From: Victoria Pate <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Hudson Bay blankets
Date: 15 May 2002 00:34:17 -0500



On Tue, 14 May 2002 08:08:37 -0700 "rtlahti" <[e-mail]> writes:
> >
> Ms. Victoria,
>
> I am holding his tankard so that he does not spill it again. The man
> can not hold his liqueur.

     Capt.,
             Aaaaaah.  That explains a lot.  Thank goodness
 you're around to keep an eye out on him.  That explains
why he looks up to you so much and all.

Victoria

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From: "Punke, Michael W." <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Need Your Expertise
Date: 15 May 2002 14:59:51 -0400

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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I am in the page proofing stages of work on a novel, "The Revenant," =
about the trapper Hugh Glass.  Those of you who know Glass's story =
(mauled by a grizzley; abandoned and robbed by two men left to care for =
him; launches an epic journey of revenge) know there are a lot of gaps =
in the recorded history.  I've learned a lot through membership on this =
list over the past year, and figured there must be someone out there who =
could answer the following:   =20

First, what term was used for powder measures in 1823?  I've seen =
references to "grains."  Something else? =20

Second, what would have been considered a large powder charge -- enough =
say, to kill a buffalo?

Third, does anyone know the correct term for the long stick, threaded by =
a saltpeter-soaked, burning rope, used to ignite goose-quill primers on =
cannons in the pre-friction primer era?   =20

Thanks in advance.

YMOS,
Michael Punke   =20

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
6.0.5770.4">
<TITLE>Need Your Expertise</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<!-- Converted from text/rtf format -->

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">I am in the page proofing stages of =
work on a novel, "The Revenant," about the trapper Hugh =
Glass.  Those of you who know Glass's story (mauled by a grizzley; =
abandoned and robbed by two men left to care for him; launches an epic =
journey of revenge) know there are a lot of gaps in the recorded =
history.  I've learned a lot through membership on this list over =
the past year, and figured there must be someone out there who could =
answer the following:    </FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">First, what term was used for powder =
measures in 1823?  I've seen references to =
"grains."  Something else?  </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Second, what would have been considered =
a large powder charge -- enough say, to kill a buffalo?</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Third, does anyone know the correct =
term for the long stick, threaded by a saltpeter-soaked, burning rope, =
used to ignite goose-quill primers on cannons in the pre-friction primer =
era?    </FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Thanks in advance.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">YMOS,</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Michael Punke    =
</FONT>
</P>

</BODY>
</HTML>
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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Need Your Expertise
Date: 15 May 2002 17:07:04 EDT


In a message dated 5/15/02 1:02:25 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<<Second, what would have been considered a large powder charge -- enough
say, to kill a buffalo?>>

In the museum at Fort Bridger Wyoming they have a powder horn that belonged
to Jim Bridger.  His rifle would have been typical of the time at .53 - .54
caliber and the charger holds 53.something grains.  In other words - the old
standard of one grain per caliber would have been pretty close.  I used to
hunt with a .58 and at 300 yards I put a ball through a good sized deer.  It
was compartive low velocity, though as no meat was bloodshot and the exit
hole was the same size as the entrance hole.  With buffalo, though, what is
important is knowing the area where you can get a heart shot.  About a year
ago some of us went up to Idaho to shoot a 6 year old bull.  All were lung
shots but of six rounds, he stood until the heart shot.  Loads were 70 grains
to 90 grains and none passed all the way through the animal.

For what its worth.

Want more?  Write me off line.

Richard James
[e-mail]

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From: "rtlahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Need Your Expertise
Date: 15 May 2002 14:14:24 -0700

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Need Your Expertise
  Michael,

  Your novel should be interesting reading when you get it completed. =
Let us know. But to your questions.......
   =20
  <First, what term was used for powder measures in 1823?  I've seen =
references to "grains."  Something else?  >

  A "charge" as in a charge of powder or "charge the gun, musket, rifle, =
etc.

  <Second, what would have been considered a large powder charge -- =
enough say, to kill a buffalo?>

  Hard question to answer for sure positive but there is evedence to =
indicate that a normal charge was somewhere between a grain per cal. and =
upwards of a grain per 1-1/2 calibers. A .50 cal. gun is big enough to =
kill a buffalo and a charge of 65 to 75 grains seems reasonable though =
light by todays standards. In a .60 cal. smooth bore which might be more =
tipical of the guns used by Indian and White alike, a charge of around =
70 to 80 grains has been known to kill a buffalo quite readily.

  =20

  <Third, does anyone know the correct term for the long stick, threaded =
by a saltpeter-soaked, burning rope, used to ignite goose-quill primers =
on cannons in the pre-friction primer era?>

  Not sure it was soaked with saltpeter but it was called a "match". =
Soaked in salt peter it would be almost impossible to put out short of =
soaking in water and would burn quite fast compared to a smoldering =
cotton rope, which will burn quite nicely on it's own at a reasonable =
rate. There was some discussion recently as to what else the "match" =
might have been soaked with or treated with.



  Hope that helps.



  YMOS
  Capt. Lahti'



    =20


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<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Need Your Expertise</TITLE>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2715.400" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Michael,</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Your novel =
should be=20
  interesting reading when you get it completed. Let us know. But =
to your=20
  questions.......</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>  =
</FONT></DIV>
  <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><First, what term was used for =
powder measures=20
  in 1823?  I've seen references to "grains."  Something =
else? =20
  ></FONT></P>
  <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A "charge" as in a charge of powder or =
"charge the=20
  gun, musket, rifle, etc.</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><Second, what would have been =
considered a large=20
  powder charge -- enough say, to kill a buffalo?></FONT></P>
  <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hard question to answer for sure =
positive but=20
  there is evedence to indicate that a normal charge was somewhere =
between a=20
  grain per cal. and upwards of a grain per 1-1/2 calibers. A=20
  .50 cal. gun is big enough to kill a buffalo and a charge of 65 =
to 75=20
  grains seems reasonable though light by todays standards. In a =
.60 cal.=20
  smooth bore which might be more tipical of the guns used =
by Indian and=20
  White alike, a charge of around 70 to 80 grains has been known to kill =
a=20
  buffalo quite readily.</FONT></P>
  <P> </P>
  <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><Third, does anyone know the correct =
term for=20
  the long stick, threaded by a saltpeter-soaked, burning rope, used to =
ignite=20
  goose-quill primers on cannons in the pre-friction primer =
era?></FONT></P>
  <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Not sure it was soaked with saltpeter =
but it was=20
  called a "match". Soaked in salt peter it would be almost impossible =
to put=20
  out short of soaking in water and would burn quite fast compared to a=20
  smoldering cotton rope, which will burn quite nicely on it's own =
at a=20
  reasonable rate. There was some discussion recently as to what else=20
  the "match" might have been soaked with or treated =
with.</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hope that helps.</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>YMOS<BR>Capt. Lahti'</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>   =
</FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Need Your Expertise
Date: 15 May 2002 17:09:54 EDT


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In a message dated 5/15/2002 12:02:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:


> Third, does anyone know the correct term for the long stick, threaded by a
> saltpeter-soaked, burning rope, used to ignite goose-quill primers on
> cannons in the pre-friction primer era?
>
>

As taken from Webster's 1828 Dictionary....

MATCH, n. 1. Some very combustible substance used for catching fire from a
spark, as hemp, flax, cotton, tow dipped in sulphur, or a species of dry
wood,called vulgarly touch-wood. 2. A rope or cord made of hempen tow,
composed of three strands slightly twisted, and again covered with tow and
boiled in the lees of old wine. This when lighted at one end, retains fire
and burns slowly till consumed. It is used in firing artillery.

QUICK-MATCH, n. [See Match.] A combustible preparation formed of cotton
strands dipped in a boiling composition of white vinegar, saltpeter and
mealed powder; used by artillerymen.






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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  COLOR="#0000a0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B>In a message dated 5/15/2002 12:02:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [e-mail] writes:<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></B><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Third, does anyone know the correct term for the long stick, threaded by a saltpeter-soaked, burning rope, used to ignite goose-quill primers on cannons in the pre-friction primer era?    </FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#0000a0" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">As taken from Webster's 1828 Dictionary....<BR>
<BR>
MATCH</B>, n. 1. Some very combustible substance used for catching fire from a spark, as hemp, flax, cotton, tow dipped in sulphur, or a species of dry wood,called vulgarly touch-wood. 2. A rope or cord made of hempen tow, composed of three strands slightly twisted, and again covered with tow and boiled in the lees of old wine. This when lighted at one end, retains fire and burns slowly till consumed. It is used in firing artillery.<BR>
<BR>
<B>QUICK-MATCH,</B> n. [See Match.] A combustible preparation formed of cotton strands dipped in a boiling composition of white vinegar, saltpeter and mealed powder; used by artillerymen. <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
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From: Michael Branson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Longrifle-Saga of Andy Burnett
Date: 15 May 2002 15:17:14 -0700 (PDT)

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 A long time ago in a galaxy far far away, I was young, I spent several days reading the paper back version of the Saga of Andy Burnett. Young Andy was the grandson of Gail Burnett, a close friend of Daniel Boone. Dan'l gave Gail his rifle and Gail gave it to his grandson Andy who then took it west after he met up with a mtn man name of Joe Crane. What a great fictional story. I read it as a kid and it started my interest in long skinny barreled rifles and fringed leather clothing. Walt Disney made a 3 part TV mini-series and showed it on Walt Disney Presents on Sunday night. The show came on in the late 1950s. The character Bill Williams  was played by the late Slim Pickens an acquaintance of mine and the character of Andy was played by Jerome Courtland, Joe Crane was played by Jeff York, who also played in the Great Locomotive Race with Fess Parker.
     Slim told me in 1980 that playing the part of Bill Williams got him interested in mtn men and he got involved in the hobby of buckskinning back in the sixties. he collected old saddles and guns and other western artifacts. When Slim passed on in 1983, I was lucky enough to manage to get a nice santa fe saddle tree from his wife Maggie. Bob Schmidt built a great saddle around that tree. Slim had a red river cart in his garage in California. I have always wondered who bought the cart. Many nice pieces of plunder moved onto the market for sale from Slim's collection. I own an original hard bound first edition of the book and it occasionally surfaces in the used book web sites. A great tale of mtn men. M. Branson



Do You Yahoo!?
LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
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Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

<P> A long time ago in a galaxy far far away, I was young, I spent several days reading the paper back version of the Saga of Andy Burnett. Young Andy was the grandson of Gail Burnett, a close friend of Daniel Boone. Dan'l gave Gail his rifle and Gail gave it to his grandson Andy who then took it west after he met up with a mtn man name of Joe Crane. What a great fictional story. I read it as a kid and it started my interest in long skinny barreled rifles and fringed leather clothing. Walt Disney made a 3 part TV mini-series and showed it on Walt Disney Presents on Sunday night. The show came on in the late 1950s. The character Bill Williams  was played by the late Slim Pickens an acquaintance of mine and the character of Andy was played by Jerome Courtland, Joe Crane was played by Jeff York, who also played in the Great Locomotive Race with Fess Parker.
<P>     Slim told me in 1980 that playing the part of Bill Williams got him interested in mtn men and he got involved in the hobby of buckskinning back in the sixties. he collected old saddles and guns and other western artifacts. When Slim passed on in 1983, I was lucky enough to manage to get a nice santa fe saddle tree from his wife Maggie. Bob Schmidt built a great saddle around that tree. Slim had a red river cart in his garage in California. I have always wondered who bought the cart. Many nice pieces of plunder moved onto the market for sale from Slim's collection. I own an original hard bound first edition of the book and it occasionally surfaces in the used book web sites. A great tale of mtn men. M. <A href="mailto:[e-mail]">Branson</A></P><p><br><hr size=1><b>Do You Yahoo!?</b><br>
<a href="http://rd.yahoo.com/welcome/*http://launch.yahoo.com">LAUNCH</a> - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
--0-1562924575-1021501034=:63175--

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From: "rtlahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Need Your Expertise
Date: 15 May 2002 16:23:37 -0700

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Need Your Expertise<Hard question to answer for sure positive but there =
is evidence to indicate that a normal charge was somewhere between a =
grain per cal. and upwards of a grain per 1-1/2 caliber's.>

Michael,


Let that read 1-1/2 grains per caliber. But like Richard points out =
again, there is some evidence to suggest it was common practice to go =
with a grain per caliber. Some of the stories that came back talked of =
various hunters, experienced and otherwise having to shoot their quarry =
several times with little success. Osborne Russell talked of his first =
buffalo as taking the contents of his shooting pouch (24 balls or so) =
and not falling down. There is no comment or record of where he did or =
didn't hit the buffalo though so the animal may verywell have been dead =
on its feet.

 I believe the Lewis and Clark expedition found the Plains Grizzly very =
hard to kill though that is still the case today, they may have been =
using what today we would consider a light load that is normally quite =
effective on deer, black bear and even elk.=20

In most muzzle loaders such a load might be considered a half load in =
the sense that if needed the shooter could throw a double 'charge' and =
not dangerously overload the gun. A normal 50 grain load in a .50 cal. =
rifle would give a double charge of 100 grains and that isn't dangerous =
in a gun in good condition shooting a round ball, just normally not =
needed.

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'


  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: rtlahti=20
  To: [e-mail]=20
  Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 2:14 PM
  Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Need Your Expertise



    Michael,

    Your novel should be interesting reading when you get it completed. =
Let us know. But to your questions.......
     =20
    <First, what term was used for powder measures in 1823?  I've seen =
references to "grains."  Something else?  >

    A "charge" as in a charge of powder or "charge the gun, musket, =
rifle, etc.

    <Second, what would have been considered a large powder charge -- =
enough say, to kill a buffalo?>

    Hard question to answer for sure positive but there is evedence to =
indicate that a normal charge was somewhere between a grain per cal. and =
upwards of a grain per 1-1/2 calibers. A .50 cal. gun is big enough to =
kill a buffalo and a charge of 65 to 75 grains seems reasonable though =
light by todays standards. In a .60 cal. smooth bore which might be more =
tipical of the guns used by Indian and White alike, a charge of around =
70 to 80 grains has been known to kill a buffalo quite readily.



    <Third, does anyone know the correct term for the long stick, =
threaded by a saltpeter-soaked, burning rope, used to ignite goose-quill =
primers on cannons in the pre-friction primer era?>

    Not sure it was soaked with saltpeter but it was called a "match". =
Soaked in salt peter it would be almost impossible to put out short of =
soaking in water and would burn quite fast compared to a smoldering =
cotton rope, which will burn quite nicely on it's own at a reasonable =
rate. There was some discussion recently as to what else the "match" =
might have been soaked with or treated with.



    Hope that helps.



    YMOS
    Capt. Lahti'



      =20


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Need Your Expertise</TITLE>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2715.400" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><Hard question to answer for =
sure positive=20
but there is evidence to indicate that a normal charge was somewhere =
between a=20
grain per cal. and upwards of a grain per 1-1/2=20
caliber's.></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Michael,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Let that read 1-1/2 grains per caliber. =
But like=20
Richard points out again, there is some evidence to suggest it was =
common=20
practice to go with a grain per caliber. Some of the stories that came =
back=20
talked of various hunters, experienced and otherwise having to shoot =
their=20
quarry several times with little success. Osborne Russell talked of his =
first=20
buffalo as taking the contents of his shooting pouch (24 balls or so) =
and not=20
falling down. There is no comment or record of where he did or didn't =
hit the=20
buffalo though so the animal may verywell have been dead on its=20
feet.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> I believe the Lewis and Clark =
expedition=20
found the Plains Grizzly very hard to kill though that is still the case =
today,=20
they may have been using what today we would consider a light load that =
is=20
normally quite effective on deer, black bear and even elk. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>In most muzzle loaders such a load =
might be=20
considered a half load in the sense that if needed the shooter could =
throw a=20
double 'charge' and not dangerously overload the gun. A normal 50 grain =
load in=20
a .50 cal. rifle would give a double charge of 100 grains and that isn't =

dangerous in a gun in good condition shooting a round ball, just =
normally not=20
needed.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>YMOS<BR>Capt. Lahti'</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=[e-mail] href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">rtlahti</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=[e-mail]=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]=
</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, May 15, 2002 =
2:14=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: Need =
Your=20
  Expertise</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
  style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Michael,</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Your =
novel should be=20
    interesting reading when you get it completed. Let us know. But =
to your=20
    questions.......</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>  =
</FONT></DIV>
    <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><First, what term was used for =
powder measures=20
    in 1823?  I've seen references to "grains."  Something =
else? =20
    ></FONT></P>
    <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A "charge" as in a charge of powder =
or "charge=20
    the gun, musket, rifle, etc.</FONT></P>
    <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><Second, what would have been =
considered a=20
    large powder charge -- enough say, to kill a buffalo?></FONT></P>
    <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hard question to answer for sure =
positive=20
    but there is evedence to indicate that a normal charge was somewhere =
between=20
    a grain per cal. and upwards of a grain per 1-1/2 =
calibers. A=20
    .50 cal. gun is big enough to kill a buffalo and a charge of 65 =
to 75=20
    grains seems reasonable though light by todays standards. In a =
.60 cal.=20
    smooth bore which might be more tipical of the guns used =
by Indian and=20
    White alike, a charge of around 70 to 80 grains has been known to =
kill a=20
    buffalo quite readily.</FONT></P>
    <P> </P>
    <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><Third, does anyone know the =
correct term for=20
    the long stick, threaded by a saltpeter-soaked, burning rope, used =
to ignite=20
    goose-quill primers on cannons in the pre-friction primer=20
era?></FONT></P>
    <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Not sure it was soaked with saltpeter =
but it was=20
    called a "match". Soaked in salt peter it would be almost impossible =
to put=20
    out short of soaking in water and would burn quite fast compared to =
a=20
    smoldering cotton rope, which will burn quite nicely on it's =
own at a=20
    reasonable rate. There was some discussion recently as to what else=20
    the "match" might have been soaked with or treated =
with.</FONT></P>
    <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </P>
    <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hope that helps.</FONT></P>
    <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </P>
    <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>YMOS<BR>Capt. Lahti'</FONT></P>
    <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </P>
    <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>  =20
</FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From: Pat Quilter <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Need Your Expertise
Date: 15 May 2002 17:01:26 -0700

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Others have identified the cannon igniter as a "match", but I also remember
the term "slow-match" which certainly conveys the concept nicely.
Pat Quilter

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 12:00 PM



I am in the page proofing stages of work on a novel, "The Revenant," about
the trapper Hugh Glass.  Those of you who know Glass's story (mauled by a
grizzley; abandoned and robbed by two men left to care for him; launches an
epic journey of revenge) know there are a lot of gaps in the recorded
history.  I've learned a lot through membership on this list over the past
year, and figured there must be someone out there who could answer the
following:

First, what term was used for powder measures in 1823?  I've seen references
to "grains."  Something else?

Second, what would have been considered a large powder charge -- enough say,
to kill a buffalo?

Third, does anyone know the correct term for the long stick, threaded by a
saltpeter-soaked, burning rope, used to ignite goose-quill primers on
cannons in the pre-friction primer era?

Thanks in advance.

YMOS,
Michael Punke


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<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=459395623-15052002>Others
have identified the cannon igniter as a "match", but I also remember the term
"slow-match" which certainly conveys the concept nicely. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=459395623-15052002>Pat
Quilter</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV align=left class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma
  size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Punke, Michael W.
  [mailto:[e-mail]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, May 15, 2002
  12:00 PM<BR><B>To:</B> [e-mail]<BR><B>Subject:</B>
  MtMan-List: Need Your Expertise<BR><BR></DIV></FONT><!-- Converted from text/rtf format -->
  <P><FONT face=Arial size=2>I am in the page proofing stages of work on a
  novel, "The Revenant," about the trapper Hugh Glass.  Those of you who
  know Glass's story (mauled by a grizzley; abandoned and robbed by two men left
  to care for him; launches an epic journey of revenge) know there are a lot of
  gaps in the recorded history.  I've learned a lot through membership on
  this list over the past year, and figured there must be someone out there who
  could answer the following:    </FONT></P>
  <P><FONT face=Arial size=2>First, what term was used for powder measures in
  1823?  I've seen references to "grains."  Something else?
  </FONT></P>
  <P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Second, what would have been considered a large
  powder charge -- enough say, to kill a buffalo?</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Third, does anyone know the correct term for the
  long stick, threaded by a saltpeter-soaked, burning rope, used to ignite
  goose-quill primers on cannons in the pre-friction primer
  era?    </FONT></P>
  <P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Thanks in advance.</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT face=Arial size=2>YMOS,</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>Michael
  Punke    </FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From: Pat Quilter <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Longrifle-Saga of Andy Burnett
Date: 15 May 2002 16:59:47 -0700

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
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And let me add to Mike's note, that the "Saga" has a 50 page prologue, a
mini-novel in itself, that presents a fictionalized summary of the invention
of the American long rifle (the patched, smaller caliber, longer barrel
Pennsylvania rifle that became standard on our eastern frontier). In a
delightful twist, the first prototype comes into Daniel Boone's hands, and
is the rifle passed on to Andy Burnett before he heads out to the mountains
(even if he does have it converted to percussion in St Louis - gnash). It
would take a few hours, but this prologue would make a good read-out-loud
piece for a rainy day or any other occasion where a group finds themselves
at leisure.
Pat Quilter

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 3:17 PM



A long time ago in a galaxy far far away, I was young, I spent several days
reading the paper back version of the Saga of Andy Burnett. Young Andy was
the grandson of Gail Burnett, a close friend of Daniel Boone. Dan'l gave
Gail his rifle and Gail gave it to his grandson Andy who then took it west
after he met up with a mtn man name of Joe Crane. What a great fictional
story. I read it as a kid and it started my interest in long skinny barreled
rifles and fringed leather clothing. Walt Disney made a 3 part TV
mini-series and showed it on Walt Disney Presents on Sunday night. The show
came on in the late 1950s. The character Bill Williams  was played by the
late Slim Pickens an acquaintance of mine and the character of Andy was
played by Jerome Courtland, Joe Crane was played by Jeff York, who also
played in the Great Locomotive Race with Fess Parker.


     Slim told me in 1980 that playing the part of Bill Williams got him
interested in mtn men and he got involved in the hobby of buckskinning back
in the sixties. he collected old saddles and guns and other western
artifacts. When Slim passed on in 1983, I was lucky enough to manage to get
a nice santa fe saddle tree from his wife Maggie. Bob Schmidt built a great
saddle around that tree. Slim had a red river cart in his garage in
California. I have always wondered who bought the cart. Many nice pieces of
plunder moved onto the market for sale from Slim's collection. I own an
original hard bound first edition of the book and it occasionally surfaces
in the used book web sites. A great tale of mtn men. M. Branson
<mailto:[e-mail]>




  _____

Do You Yahoo!?
LAUNCH <http://rd.yahoo.com/welcome/*http://launch.yahoo.com>  - Your Yahoo!
Music Experience


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<META content="MSHTML 5.00.3103.1000" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=505454623-15052002>And
let me add to Mike's note, that the "Saga" has a 50 page prologue, a mini-novel
in itself, that presents a fictionalized summary of the invention of the
American long rifle (the patched, smaller caliber, longer barrel Pennsylvania
rifle that became standard on our eastern frontier). In a delightful twist, the
first prototype comes into Daniel Boone's hands, and is the rifle passed on to
Andy Burnett before he heads out to the mountains (even if he does have it
converted to percussion in St Louis - gnash). It would take a few hours, but
this prologue would make a good read-out-loud piece for a rainy day or any other
occasion where a group finds themselves at leisure. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=505454623-15052002>Pat
Quilter</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
  <DIV align=left class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma
  size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Michael Branson
  [mailto:[e-mail]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, May 15, 2002 3:17
  PM<BR><B>To:</B> [e-mail]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:
  MtMan-List: Longrifle-Saga of Andy Burnett<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
  <P>A long time ago in a galaxy far far away, I was young, I spent several days
  reading the paper back version of the Saga of Andy Burnett. Young Andy was the
  grandson of Gail Burnett, a close friend of Daniel Boone. Dan'l gave Gail his
  rifle and Gail gave it to his grandson Andy who then took it west after he met
  up with a mtn man name of Joe Crane. What a great fictional story. I read it
  as a kid and it started my interest in long skinny barreled rifles and
  fringed leather clothing. Walt Disney made a 3 part TV mini-series and showed
  it on Walt Disney Presents on Sunday night. The show came on in the late
  1950s. The character Bill Williams  was played by the late Slim Pickens
  an acquaintance of mine and the character of Andy was played by Jerome
  Courtland, Joe Crane was played by Jeff York, who also played in the Great
  Locomotive Race with Fess Parker.
  <P>     Slim told me in 1980 that playing the part of Bill
  Williams got him interested in mtn men and he got involved in the hobby of
  buckskinning back in the sixties. he collected old saddles and guns and
  other western artifacts. When Slim passed on in 1983, I was lucky enough to
  manage to get a nice santa fe saddle tree from his wife Maggie. Bob Schmidt
  built a great saddle around that tree. Slim had a red river cart in his garage
  in California. I have always wondered who bought the cart. Many nice pieces of
  plunder moved onto the market for sale from Slim's collection. I own an
  original hard bound first edition of the book and it occasionally
  surfaces in the used book web sites. A great tale of mtn men. M. <A
  href="mailto:[e-mail]">Branson</A></P>
  <P><BR>
  <HR SIZE=1>
  <B>Do You Yahoo!?</B><BR><A
  href="http://rd.yahoo.com/welcome/*http://launch.yahoo.com">LAUNCH</A> - Your
  Yahoo! Music Experience</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Need Your Expertise
Date: 16 May 2002 00:36:46 EDT


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In a message dated 5/15/02 7:59:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:


>

Out here in French and Indian and Rev War country the artillery all call it a
slow match and so do those early fur traders from the 1600's that used
Matchlock weapons ignited by a slow match instead of a modern flint.

Y.M.O.S.

C.T. Oakes

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 5/15/02 7:59:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [e-mail] writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">", but I also remember the term "slow-match" </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>
<BR>Out here in French and Indian and Rev War country the artillery all call it a slow match and so do those early fur traders from the 1600's that used Matchlock weapons ignited by a slow match instead of a modern flint.
<BR>
<BR>Y.M.O.S.
<BR>
<BR>C.T. Oakes</FONT></HTML>

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From: Duncan Macready <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Need Your Expertise
Date: 16 May 2002 22:09:49 +1200

Charges of powder are measured with either a charger, or simply a measure
.Chargers were often sub measures with several charger's full being used
for a maximum load, New rifles often came with a charger supplied by the
maker   Horace Kephart when shooting the famous Hawken he purchased new
from W Albright used a measure which held 41gr if FFFg and he tested a
41gr, 82gr,123gr,164gr, and 205 gr load in the rifle . Ned Roberts states
on page 313 of "The Muzzle Loading Caplock Rifle " that for ordinary
shooting the customary charge was half the weight of the ball, for a .53
cal rifle this was about 108 grains
  A linstock is the stick used to hold a slow match, it was sometimes
called a lintstock but Linstock is more usual

  Dunc
Auckland, New Zealand


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From: Joe Brandl <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: scout canoe trip
Date: 16 May 2002 08:33:04 -0600

Thanks to windwalker for reply to assisting us on canoe trip. I was
wondering if anyone in the area of Livington, Big Timber, Gardiner
knows about the campgrounds along the Yellowstone. Which are better
to camp at? We are leaving on July 7th and will canoe for 7-8 days
and end up at Columbus MT. Any assistance would be great.
thanks in advance
joe
--
Please visit our web site @ www.absarokawesterndesign.com
Call us for spring discounts on hair on deer and elk skins
Great selection of elk and buffalo rawhide in stock

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From: "Gene Hickman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: scout canoe trip
Date: 16 May 2002 08:51:30 -0600

Joe,

One thing to be aware of are low water conditions in Montana. We are
entering our 5th year of record drought. Right now there is concern about
baddle fish movements and spawning in the Yellowstone River due to low
water. See the FWP web site
(http://fwp.state.mt.us/news/default.asp?com=show&edition=5%2F3%2F2002&story
=Paddlefish+Anglers+Face+Low+Flowing+Yellowstone) on the paddlefish
situation. You'll also find an article about record low water in the Smith
River
(http://fwp.state.mt.us/news/default.asp?com=show&edition=5%2F3%2F2002&story
=Smith+River+Low+Water+Prompts+Warnings) which has it almost unfloatable
right now. Try BLM for river maps with campgrounds on them. Good Luck.

Gene Hickman

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 8:33 AM


> Thanks to windwalker for reply to assisting us on canoe trip. I was
> wondering if anyone in the area of Livington, Big Timber, Gardiner
> knows about the campgrounds along the Yellowstone. Which are better
> to camp at? We are leaving on July 7th and will canoe for 7-8 days
> and end up at Columbus MT. Any assistance would be great.
> thanks in advance
> joe
> --
> Please visit our web site @ www.absarokawesterndesign.com
> Call us for spring discounts on hair on deer and elk skins
> Great selection of elk and buffalo rawhide in stock
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
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From: "WindWalker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: scout canoe trip
Date: 16 May 2002 11:18:39 -0400

Joe
Write me off list. I have vacant property
3 miles outside Gardiner.... hard to get to
though.. might be suitable for your camp.
Other wise can tell you more..
Anywhere around the Northgate is going to be
full of people.
Livingston or Jardine would be better area..

Windwalker

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 5/16/02 at 8:33 AM Joe Brandl wrote:

>Thanks to windwalker for reply to assisting us on canoe trip. I was
>wondering if anyone in the area of Livington, Big Timber, Gardiner
>knows about the campgrounds along the Yellowstone. Which are better
>to camp at? We are leaving on July 7th and will canoe for 7-8 days
>and end up at Columbus MT. Any assistance would be great.
>thanks in advance
>joe
>--
>Please visit our web site @ www.absarokawesterndesign.com
>Call us for spring discounts on hair on deer and elk skins
>Great selection of elk and buffalo rawhide in stock
>
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>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html




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From: "Glenn Darilek" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Need Your Expertise
Date: 16 May 2002 12:04:49 -0500

Sounds like you read a lot about Glass and his contemporaries and came
up short on these details.  With all my reading of the journals, etc., I
also can't recall any mention of powder measure units, powder charges,
and fatal loads.  Although these are very popular topics now days,
because they were not mentioned, they may not have been of much concern
back then.

So do you think you should avoid such modern concerns to make your novel
more realistic for the time.  Naw - marketing dictates that you pander
to the masses, not to realism.

Glenn Darilek
Iron Burner

>First, what term was used for powder measures in 1823?  I've seen =
>references to "grains."  Something else? =20

>Second, what would have been considered a large powder charge -- enough
= >say, to kill a buffalo?

>Third, does anyone know the correct term for the long stick, threaded
by = >a saltpeter-soaked, burning rope, used to ignite goose-quill
primers on =
>cannons in the pre-friction primer era?   =20





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From: jdearing <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Announcement
Date: 16 May 2002 12:40:50 -0500

At 09:44 PM 5/8/02 -0400, you wrote:
>Here is something a few might be interested in,,,,
>Be a good time for a get together in St Charles and Defiance. D. Boones
>last home and place of death
>Windwalker
>WANTED
>
>20 quality Buckskinners to demonstrate skills and interact with the Public
>
That sounds like it might be a good time, as well as an opportunity to
teach the public about our sport and the truth about firearms. I wonder if
firelocks will be allowed?  Never know about the St.Louis crowd.

I do 1760's Eastern Colonial, so this is right up my alley.
J.D.



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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Hudson Bay blankets
Date: 16 May 2002 14:04:00 EDT


In a message dated 5/14/02 10:42:12 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< That explains
why he looks up to you so much and all. >>

Oh brother...... Victoria, you know I gotta camp with this guy???!? I finally
get him to where he's fun to be with and now you make him BOOSHWAY! Two years
work gone...wiped out with a word.........aaaaaargh!    <G>

Ymos,
Magpie

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From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Need Your Expertise
Date: 16 May 2002 16:17:09 -0600 (MDT)

>  Mike,
      Keep in mind that experienced hunters could also tell a good load by
what it looked liked in their cupped palm. In the heat of a fight with
Indians or trying to finish off wounded game that is making a desperate
attempt to escape seconds can be saved by pouring powder into the palm and
then into the barrel. It works great. I've done this many times with my
fusee. They could keep several balls in their mouth, pour powder into
there palm till it looked just right or maybe even more for a long shot,
pour it down, spit in a ball and ram it all down with a green leaf or
broadleaf weed plucked on the spot to top it off and keep it down the
barrel. It works just fine and is very quick. I've also primed with 2f
powder many times that saves seconds as well.
     Of course you know to never pour powder directly from the horn into
the barrel. This is a big no no.
     I'm willing to bet a lot of balls flew out of barrels without wadding
or the wadding stuffed on top to hold it in place. These boys were in a
hurry! Not at a range.
     Here's another one for your novel. Those guys made there own flints.
I've knapped my own gun flints for years out of Knife River Flint I've
gotten from my North Dakota buddies. Its the best flint in the world!!
They used rocks they picked up off the prairie or traded for. Its better
than store bought English flint in my humble opinion.
     Good luck on your book.
                Beaverboy

of work on a novel, "The Revenant,"
> about the trapper Hugh Glass.  Those of you who know Glass's story
> (mauled by a grizzley; abandoned and robbed by two men left to care for
> him; launches an epic journey of revenge) know there are a lot of gaps
> in the recorded history.  I've learned a lot through membership on this
> list over the past year, and figured there must be someone out there
> who could answer the following:
> term was used for powder measures in 1823?  I've seen
> references to "grains."  Something else?
>
> Second, what would have been considered a large powder charge -- enough
> say, to kill a buffalo?
>
> Third, does anyone know the correct term for the long stick, threaded
> by a saltpeter-soaked, burning rope, used to ignite goose-quill primers
> on cannons in the pre-friction primer era?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> YMOS,
> Michael Punke




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From: "WindWalker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Need Your Expertise
Date: 16 May 2002 17:47:50 -0400

In the heat of battle, one pours from horn....
and guesses...
Same as firefight in Asia.. you pay no mind
to clips.. so ya duct tape clips back to back
flip em. when empty
Windwalker

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 5/16/02 at 4:17 PM [e-mail] wrote:

>>  Mike,
>      Keep in mind that experienced hunters could also tell a good load by
>what it looked liked in their cupped palm. In the heat of a fight with
>Indians or trying to finish off wounded game that is making a desperate
>attempt to escape seconds can be saved by pouring powder into the palm and
>then into the barrel. It works great. I've done this many times with my
>fusee. They could keep several balls in their mouth, pour powder into
>there palm till it looked just right or maybe even more for a long shot,
>pour it down, spit in a ball and ram it all down with a green leaf or
>broadleaf weed plucked on the spot to top it off and keep it down the
>barrel. It works just fine and is very quick. I've also primed with 2f
>powder many times that saves seconds as well.
>     Of course you know to never pour powder directly from the horn into
>the barrel. This is a big no no.
>     I'm willing to bet a lot of balls flew out of barrels without wadding
>or the wadding stuffed on top to hold it in place. These boys were in a
>hurry! Not at a range.
>     Here's another one for your novel. Those guys made there own flints.
>I've knapped my own gun flints for years out of Knife River Flint I've
>gotten from my North Dakota buddies. Its the best flint in the world!!
>They used rocks they picked up off the prairie or traded for. Its better
>than store bought English flint in my humble opinion.
>     Good luck on your book.
>                Beaverboy
>
>of work on a novel, "The Revenant,"
>> about the trapper Hugh Glass.  Those of you who know Glass's story
>> (mauled by a grizzley; abandoned and robbed by two men left to care for
>> him; launches an epic journey of revenge) know there are a lot of gaps
>> in the recorded history.  I've learned a lot through membership on this
>> list over the past year, and figured there must be someone out there
>> who could answer the following:
>> term was used for powder measures in 1823?  I've seen
>> references to "grains."  Something else?
>>
>> Second, what would have been considered a large powder charge -- enough
>> say, to kill a buffalo?
>>
>> Third, does anyone know the correct term for the long stick, threaded
>> by a saltpeter-soaked, burning rope, used to ignite goose-quill primers
>> on cannons in the pre-friction primer era?
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>> YMOS,
>> Michael Punke
>
>
>
>
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From: "Frank" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: flint was expertise
Date: 16 May 2002 18:49:36 -0500

    Whoa there Beaverboy
    Ye gotta be wrong.
    Ye said,  <Those guys made there own flints.
I've knapped my own gun flints for years out of Knife River Flint I've
gotten from my North Dakota buddies. Its the best flint in the world!!
They used rocks they picked up off the prairie or traded for. Its better
than store bought English flint in my humble opinion.>
    According to TOF there is no flint in the U.S.  And if he sez it, it
must be fact. Ask him.
    'Course, that being the case, I'm awfully confused. Got stuff here in
the Arkansas Ozarks that cuts my truck tires sumptin' awful, makes good
sparkers, works like flint, looks like flint.  Dunno wat it is. :-)
Frank G. Fusco
Mountain Home, Arkansas
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/ozarksmuzzleloaders



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From: "Randal Bublitz" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: FW: AMM-List: Virus
Date: 16 May 2002 17:41:14 -0700

<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=windows-1251">
<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt Arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=[e-mail] href="mailto:[e-mail]">Randal Bublitz</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To: </B><A title=[e-mail] href="mailto:[e-mail]">ammlist</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> 5/16/02 5:39:38 PM </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> AMM-List: Virus</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT size=2>
<P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>I got hit with a virus as soon as I logged on.  I didn't open anything, Norton caught it, but apparently it got in ...as Pat Q already contacted me.  I hadn't sent Pat anything recently (on purpose anyway) .  The offending email was from "tvenden" and was subject Language.  If this hits anyone else through me, I'm sorry...but I didn't do anything other than log on.   Randy</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>--- Randal Bublitz</DIV>
<DIV>--- <A href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A></DIV>
<DIV>we have NOT inherited the Earth from our fathers,</DIV>
<DIV>we are Borrowing it from our Children</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<P></P></FONT>
<P></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>--- Randal Bublitz</DIV>
<DIV>--- <A href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A></DIV>
<DIV>we have NOT inherited the Earth from our fathers,</DIV>
<DIV>we are Borrowing it from our Children</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>-------------------- Aux Aliments de Pays!</BODY></HTML>


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From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: flint was expertise
Date: 16 May 2002 19:52:02 -0500

  According to TOF there is no flint in the U.S.  And if he sez it, it
must be fact. Ask him.


Doesn't TOF run the group that about half believes that a bullet will drop
upon leaving the muzzle, then rise through its trajectory and fall
again.....thus describing a sine wave???  That is the outfit, ain't it.
It's no wonder there's no flint in the US...parts of it don't obey Newtonian
physics.
Ol' Fox is still OK with me.
Lanney



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From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: virus
Date: 16 May 2002 19:56:25 -0500

My Norton caught and apparently quarantined a virus a few minutes ago.  The
sender was shown as  "comments" and the subject line is  "Mar 13 2002 12"
Proceed accordingly.
Lanney Ratcliff



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From: "Tim J." <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: virus
Date: 16 May 2002 21:30:44 -0400

Hello the camp,

It was just sent to me also.  There are two addresses associated with this
virus.  If either jandsstone @earthlink.net or pmonty @ allwest.net look
familiar they are the addresses involved.

Tim


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From: "Gene Hickman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: virus
Date: 16 May 2002 19:38:56 -0600

I got one from pmonty a couple days ago too. The MacAfee alerted on it.

Gene Hickman

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 7:30 PM


> Hello the camp,
>
> It was just sent to me also.  There are two addresses associated with this
> virus.  If either jandsstone @earthlink.net or pmonty @ allwest.net look
> familiar they are the addresses involved.
>
> Tim
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


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From: [e-mail] (Jon Marinetti)
Subject: MtMan-List: Correct Term for Artillery Igniter (Amer.Rev.)
Date: 16 May 2002 21:43:13 -0400 (EDT)

LINSTOCK: a pole arm holding a smoldering slow match rope.
[Collector's Illustrated Encyclopedia of the American Revolution by
George Neumann and Frank Kravic, pp.16,180]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
from Michigan
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


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From: "Philip C. Rogers, Jr." <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: virus
Date: 16 May 2002 20:48:56 -0500

This is the KLEZ virus, unfortunately, it does not mean the person in the from
line has it, just that someone has them in their address book. The subject can change as
well. In addition to having an up to date anit-virus program, you should get the latest
system updates from Microsoft as this virus exploits a security hole in the OS as well
as Outlook.


At 20:38 05/16/2002, you wrote:
>I got one from pmonty a couple days ago too. The MacAfee alerted on it.
>
>Gene Hickman
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Tim J." <[e-mail]>
>To: <[e-mail]>
>Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 7:30 PM
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: virus
>
>
>> Hello the camp,
>>
>> It was just sent to me also.  There are two addresses associated with this
>> virus.  If either jandsstone @earthlink.net or pmonty @ allwest.net look
>> familiar they are the addresses involved.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>>
>> ----------------------
>> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>>
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: flint was expertise
Date: 17 May 2002 22:09:56 -0400



On Thu, 16 May 2002 19:52:02 -0500 "Lanney Ratcliff"
<[e-mail]> writes:
> Ol' Fox is still OK with me.
> Lanney
what kind of good stuff you on pard---please send me some (GBG)---contact
me offline---got a good groop going yopu might be interested in---

nuff said---and yes chirt and petrified wood are darn hot flints---
no more said---

hawk---

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

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From: "JIM BRYAN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: flint was expertise
Date: 16 May 2002 23:01:40 -0500


------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C1FD2D.A3AE7680
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Is that a "sine" of ballistic ignorance?

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 7:53 PM

  According to TOF there is no flint in the U.S.  And if he sez it, it
must be fact. Ask him.


Doesn't TOF run the group that about half believes that a bullet will dro=
p
upon leaving the muzzle, then rise through its trajectory and fall
again.....thus describing a sine wave???  That is the outfit, ain't it.
It's no wonder there's no flint in the US...parts of it don't obey Newton=
ian
physics.
Ol' Fox is still OK with me.
Lanney



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------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C1FD2D.A3AE7680
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<HTML><BODY STYLE=3D"font:10pt verdana; border:none;"><DIV>Is that a "sin=
e" of ballistic ignorance?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"P=
ADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000=
000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial">----- =
Original Message -----</DIV> <DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10p=
t Arial; COLOR: black"><B>From:</B> Lanney Ratcliff</DIV> <DIV style=3D"F=
ONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, May 16, 2002 7:53 PM</DIV> <DIV s=
tyle=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>To:</B> [e-mail]</DIV> <=
DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: flint was =
expertise</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>  According to TOF there is no flin=
t in the U.S.  And if he sez it, it<BR>must be fact. Ask him.<BR><BR=
><BR>Doesn't TOF run the group that about half believes that a bullet wil=
l drop<BR>upon leaving the muzzle, then rise through its trajectory and f=
all<BR>again.....thus describing a sine wave???  That is the outfit,=
 ain't it.<BR>It's no wonder there's no flint in the US...parts of it don=
't obey Newtonian<BR>physics.<BR>Ol' Fox is still OK with me.<BR>Lanney<B=
R><BR><BR><BR>----------------------<BR>hist_text list info: http://www.x=
mission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From: "WindWalker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: flint was expertise
Date: 16 May 2002 23:21:45 -0400

--=====_102160570518467=_
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TOF suffers from putting mouth into gear before brain.
tell him WindWalker said that
Windwalker
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 5/16/02 at 11:01 PM JIM BRYAN wrote:
Is that a "sine" of ballistic ignorance?

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 7:53 PM

  According to TOF there is no flint in the U.S.  And if he sez it, it
must be fact. Ask him.


Doesn't TOF run the group that about half believes that a bullet will drop
upon leaving the muzzle, then rise through its trajectory and fall
again.....thus describing a sine wave???  That is the outfit, ain't it.
It's no wonder there's no flint in the US...parts of it don't obey=
 Newtonian
physics.
Ol' Fox is still OK with me.
Lanney



----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


--=====_102160570518467=_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-TOP: medium none; FONT: 10pt verdana; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<DIV>TOF suffers from putting mouth into gear before brain.</DIV>
<DIV>tell him WindWalker said that</DIV>
<DIV>Windwalker<BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>*********** REPLY SEPARATOR
***********<BR><BR>On 5/16/02 at 11:01 PM JIM BRYAN wrote:</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid">
  <DIV>Is that a "sine" of ballistic ignorance?</DIV>
  <DIV> </DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE
  style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt Arial">----- Original Message -----</DIV>
    <DIV
    style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt Arial; COLOR: black"><B>From:</B>
    Lanney Ratcliff</DIV>
    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, May 16, 2002 7:53
    PM</DIV>
    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>To:</B> [e-mail]</DIV>
    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: flint was
    expertise</DIV>
    <DIV> </DIV>  According to TOF there is no flint in the U.S.
    And if he sez it, it<BR>must be fact. Ask him.<BR><BR><BR>Doesn't TOF run
    the group that about half believes that a bullet will drop<BR>upon leaving
    the muzzle, then rise through its trajectory and fall<BR>again.....thus
    describing a sine wave???  That is the outfit, ain't it.<BR>It's no
    wonder there's no flint in the US...parts of it don't obey
    Newtonian<BR>physics.<BR>Ol' Fox is still OK with
    me.<BR>Lanney<BR><BR><BR><BR>----------------------<BR>hist_text list info:
    http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT
  size=2 Arial></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BODY></HTML>


--=====_102160570518467=_--


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From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: flint was expertise
Date: 16 May 2002 23:44:58 -0500

TOF
I said that a little differently from what I intended.  I meant to say that
about half of that group believed, not that ALL the group HALF believed the
theory of what amounts to sine wave ballistics.  I may have the group
mis-identified as yours, but a year or two back I got into a fairly toxic
battle with some folks on somebody's list who insisted that bullets leaving
the muzzle first fall "a little", then rise through an arc "after they
stabilize".  That flies in the face of physics and accepted concepts of
bullet trajectory and I said so.  Those folks were assigning aerodynamic
principles to bullets that are ballistic by nature.  Gravity can't be denied
and earthbound objects fall at 32 ft per sec per sec until wind resistance
slows them to a constant velocity.  In a vacuum the acceleration continues
unabated until it strikes a surface.   I was always amazed to read
that....in a vacuum....a feather and a lead ball fall at the same velocity
and will strike the ground simultaneously if dropped simultaneously, and
thus a bullet fired parallel to a flat surface....at any velocity..... will
strike the ground simultaneously as a bullet (or a feather) dropped
simultaneously from the height of the muzzle.
If I mis-identified your group as the one that harbored  these "sine
ballisticians" then I apologize in the same forum that I made the comment.
No offense intended to you (or anybody else, for that matter).
Send me what I need to join your group.
cordially
Lanney
PS: I will be off line after tomorrow afternoon until about June 3.  I am
heading north, first to Pinedale Wyoming for an AMM camp then to west
central Colorado for another.
later


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From: "WindWalker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: flint was expertise
Date: 16 May 2002 23:51:52 -0400

sorry thought you ws talking of Fox...from another list
rats
Windwalker

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 5/16/02 at 11:44 PM Lanney Ratcliff wrote:

>TOF
>I said that a little differently from what I intended.  I meant to say=
 that
>about half of that group believed, not that ALL the group HALF believed=
 the
>theory of what amounts to sine wave ballistics.  I may have the group
>mis-identified as yours, but a year or two back I got into a fairly toxic
>battle with some folks on somebody's list who insisted that bullets=
 leaving
>the muzzle first fall "a little", then rise through an arc "after they
>stabilize".  That flies in the face of physics and accepted concepts of
>bullet trajectory and I said so.  Those folks were assigning aerodynamic
>principles to bullets that are ballistic by nature.  Gravity can't be
>denied
>and earthbound objects fall at 32 ft per sec per sec until wind resistance
>slows them to a constant velocity.  In a vacuum the acceleration continues
>unabated until it strikes a surface.   I was always amazed to read
>that....in a vacuum....a feather and a lead ball fall at the same velocity
>and will strike the ground simultaneously if dropped simultaneously, and
>thus a bullet fired parallel to a flat surface....at any velocity.....=
 will
>strike the ground simultaneously as a bullet (or a feather) dropped
>simultaneously from the height of the muzzle.
>If I mis-identified your group as the one that harbored  these "sine
>ballisticians" then I apologize in the same forum that I made the comment.
>No offense intended to you (or anybody else, for that matter).
>Send me what I need to join your group.
>cordially
>Lanney
>PS: I will be off line after tomorrow afternoon until about June 3.  I am
>heading north, first to Pinedale Wyoming for an AMM camp then to west
>central Colorado for another.
>later
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: flint was expertise
Date: 16 May 2002 23:56:33 -0500




At 11:01 PM 5/16/02, you wrote:
>Is that a "sine" of ballistic ignorance?

OH GROAN!

The 1811 Dictionary of the Vulgar Tongue would define you sir, as a:

                              "WORDPECKER"

John...

P.S. Texas grey flint is the best this continent has to offer; it's lots
hotter than English black or French brown.  Doc Grandee always brought it
up, I cleaned up his camp after he finished knapping and went home, he kept
me in gunflints and firestones for better than 10 years from when I last
saw him up on Big "Z's" place.

Had a broken point red chert stone in my musket that lasted (without
knapping) for years living full time oldtime.  Never failed to throw a
shower of hot sparks.  Never had another as good.
>

Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
John Kramer  <[e-mail]>


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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: flint was expertise
Date: 17 May 2002 10:23:23 EDT


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In a message dated 5/16/02 8:52:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:


> According to TOF there is no flint in the U.S.

Oh know I will have to let all the folks living on Flint Hill Road out side
of Mumford NY know they have to change the name and stop picking it up of the
ground cause it is "Fake Flint" not real Flint.  Does that mean the fires
they started with it at the Genesee Country Museum are then Fake Fires?



Y.M.O.S.

C.T. Oakes

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 5/16/02 8:52:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [e-mail] writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">According to TOF there is no flint in the U.S.  </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>
<BR>Oh know I will have to let all the folks living on Flint Hill Road out side of Mumford NY know they have to change the name and stop picking it up of the ground cause it is "Fake Flint" not real Flint.  Does that mean the fires they started with it at the Genesee Country Museum are then Fake Fires?
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=4 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Lucida Handwriting" LANG="0">Y.M.O.S.
<BR>
<BR>C.T. Oakes</FONT></HTML>

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From: "Tim J." <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: flint was expertise
Date: 17 May 2002 11:25:45 -0400

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--Boundary_(ID_crhFdue9/YodV2eThw1WtQ)
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  ----- Original Message -----
  From: [e-mail]


  In a message dated 5/16/02 8:52:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [e-mail] writes:



    According to TOF there is no flint in the U.S.

  Oh know I will have to let all the folks living on Flint Hill Road out side of Mumford NY know they have to change the name and stop picking it up of the ground ...

  Ummm... not to restart the debate but *technically* TOF is correct.  "Flint" is a specific name for a high quality black Chert found in England.  What most people have come to call flint (and name roads. towns, ridges, etc. after) is actually various qualities of chert.  Basically, all flint is (a variety of) chert, but not all chert is flint.

  Tim




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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2713.1100" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face="BellGothic Blk BT" size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV
  style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
  <A title=[e-mail] href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A>
  </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face="BellGothic Blk BT" size=2></FONT><BR></DIV><FONT
  face=arial,helvetica><FONT lang=0 face=Arial size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF">In a
  message dated 5/16/02 8:52:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, <A
  href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A>
  writes: <BR><BR><BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE
  style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
  TYPE="CITE">According to TOF there is no flint in the U.S.  </BLOCKQUOTE>
  <DIV><FONT face="BellGothic Blk BT"></FONT><BR>Oh know I will have to let all
  the folks living on Flint Hill Road out side of Mumford NY know they have to
  change the name and stop picking it up of the ground ...</DIV>
  <DIV> </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face="BellGothic Blk BT">Ummm... not to restart the debate but
  *technically* TOF is correct.  "Flint" is a specific name for a <EM>high
  quality black Chert found in <U><STRONG>England</STRONG></U></EM>.  What
  most people have come to call flint (and name roads. towns, ridges, etc.
  after) is actually various qualities of chert.  Basically, all flint is
  (a variety of) chert, but not all chert is flint.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face="BellGothic Blk BT"></FONT> </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face="BellGothic Blk BT">Tim</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face="BellGothic Blk BT"></FONT> </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face="BellGothic Blk BT"></FONT> </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT
face="BellGothic Blk BT"></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: flint was expertise
Date: 17 May 2002 12:23:30 EDT


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In a message dated 5/17/2002 8:32:28 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:


> not to restart the debate but *technically* TOF is correct.

Tim, et al., You guys are misstating the facts: There is a deposit of Flint,
even acknowledged by TOF, in upstate New York.  Let's put an end to this
petty crap, as there is at least one known, properly formed and identified
deposit of Flint in the US.

Barney

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  COLOR="#0000a0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B>In a message dated 5/17/2002 8:32:28 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [e-mail] writes:<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></B><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">not to restart the debate but *technically* TOF is correct.</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#0000a0" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B><BR>
Tim, et al., You guys are misstating the facts: There is a deposit of Flint, <U>even acknowledged by TOF</U>, in upstate New York.  Let's put an end to this petty crap, as there is at least one known, properly formed and identified deposit of Flint in the US.<BR>
<BR>
Barney</B></FONT></HTML>

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Tim J." <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: flint was expertise
Date: 17 May 2002 13:07:41 -0400

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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  ----- Original Message -----
  From: [e-mail]


  In a message dated 5/17/2002 8:32:28 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [e-mail] writes:


    not to restart the debate but *technically* TOF is correct.


  Tim, et al., You guys are misstating the facts: There is a deposit of Flint, even acknowledged by TOF, in upstate New York.  Let's put an end to this petty crap...



  Barney,

  I'm not trying to be petty, I didn't follow this thread much before because in all reality it really is not important.  When it came up this time a became a little curious so I did a google search to come up with my "misstated" facts (note: tongue in cheek).  Some web sites did not make a distinction between flint and chert.  The sites that did make a distinction stated their facts as I replied.  Theses facts are according to The Authentic Artifacts Collectors Association; West Geology Sources, School of Ocean and Earth Sciences, Southampton University, U.K.; Minerals of the World, A Field Guide and Introduction to the Geology and Chemistry of Minerals...  If anyone has other facts that disagree with what I stated I would be happy to see their source (strictly out of a search for knowledge and a little curiosity) off list.

  Having said that, I agree with letting this rest.  For some reason this subject seems to evoke as much emotional response as politics and religion and it is definitely not worth any hard feelings over.

  Regards,
  Tim




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<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2713.1100" name=GENERATOR>
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<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face="BellGothic Blk BT" size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV
  style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
  <A title=[e-mail]
  href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A> </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face="BellGothic Blk BT" size=2></FONT><BR></DIV><FONT
  face=arial,helvetica><FONT lang=0 face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000a0 size=2
  FAMILY="SCRIPT"><B>In a message dated 5/17/2002 8:32:28 AM Pacific Daylight
  Time, <A href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A>
  writes:<BR></FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial
  color=#000000 size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"></B><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0
  style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face="Comic Sans MS" color=#000000 size=2
  FAMILY="SCRIPT">
  <BLOCKQUOTE
  style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
  TYPE="CITE">not to restart the debate but *technically* TOF is
    correct.</FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"
    face="Comic Sans MS" color=#000000 size=3 FAMILY="SCRIPT"></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <DIV><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"
  face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000a0 size=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT"><B><BR>Tim, et al.,
  You guys are misstating the facts: There is a deposit of Flint, <U>even
  acknowledged by TOF</U>, in upstate New York.  Let's put an end to this
  petty crap...</B></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><STRONG><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000a0
  size=2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
  <DIV><STRONG><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000a0
  size=2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
  <DIV><STRONG><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000a0
  size=2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
  <DIV><STRONG><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000a0
  size=2>Barney,</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
  <DIV><STRONG><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000a0
  size=2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
  <DIV><STRONG><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000a0 size=2>I'm not trying to
  be petty, I didn't follow this thread much before because in all reality it
  really is not important.  When it came up this time a became a little
  curious so I did a google search to come up with my "misstated" facts (note:
  tongue in cheek).  Some web sites did not make a distinction between
  flint and chert.  The sites that did make a distinction stated their
  facts as I replied.  Theses facts are according to The Authentic
  Artifacts Collectors Association; West Geology Sources, School of Ocean and
  Earth Sciences, Southampton University, U.K.; Minerals of the World, A Field
  Guide and Introduction to the Geology and Chemistry of Minerals...  If
  anyone has other facts that disagree with what I stated I would be happy to
  see their source (strictly out of a search for knowledge and a little
  curiosity) off list.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
  <DIV><STRONG><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000a0
  size=2></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000a0
  size=2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
  <DIV><STRONG><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000a0 size=2>Having said that,
  I agree with letting this rest.  For some reason this subject seems to
  evoke as much emotional response as politics and religion and it is definitely
  not worth any hard feelings over.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
  <DIV><STRONG><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000a0
  size=2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
  <DIV><STRONG><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000a0
  size=2>Regards,</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
  <DIV><STRONG><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000a0
  size=2>Tim</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
  <DIV><STRONG><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000a0
  size=2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
  <DIV><STRONG><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000a0 size=2>
  </FONT></STRONG></DIV>
  <DIV><STRONG><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000a0
  size=2></FONT></STRONG></FONT> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From: Pat Quilter <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Sine-wave bullet trajectories
Date: 17 May 2002 11:58:50 -0700

It's always interesting to get the right terms for hard, spark-throwing
rocks (flint vs chert), although it may not make your gun fire any better.

Regarding the question of bullet trajectory:

Sometimes the imagery proposed to help people remember a complicated fact is
in fact misleading, even though it may help people remember the likely
outcome. My favorite is the blacksmith's warning that dipping the end of a
hot iron in water will "chase the heat up the rod" making it likelier to
burn your hand. This is a good reminder that not ALL of the iron cools right
off when you quench one part of it, but the implied physics of the statement
is completely wrong. Drawing heat from one end will never make the other end
get hotter than if you let the iron cool by itself.

I suspect our "roller coaster bullet trajectory" is a similar case. If one's
sights are set to intersect the trajectory of your bullet at some moderate
distance, the line of sight starts above the bullet, and points downwards
slightly to intersect its path. Therefore, you will shoot below your point
of aim up close, the bullet may well rise slightly above the point of aim
past your sighting distance, and then as it continues to drop, it will once
again pass your point of aim further out. All of this depends of course on
what distance you set your sights at, but may be typical for most cases. The
"loose" explanation is the bullet starts low, goes up, and then goes down
again, which "seems" like a roller coaster, but it is an illusion. As noted,
the bullet drops steadily, but it is quite possible for it to cross your
point of aim at two distances.

It's Friday, so I am taking the liberty of expanding on a discussion for
fun.

Pat Quilter.

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From: "larry pendleton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: flint was expertise
Date: 17 May 2002 17:01:19 -0700

as there is at least one known, properly formed and identified deposit of
Flint in the US.

Barney

>>Barney,
  There is another, little known deposit in Central Texas, near Brady I
think.  It's on private prperty, and there is no access allowed.
LP


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From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: flint was expertise
Date: 17 May 2002 17:25:56 -0500

At 12:07 PM 5/17/02, you wrote:
>  Barney,
>
>...The sites that did make a distinction stated their facts as I
>replied.  Theses facts are according to The Authentic Artifacts Collectors
>Association; West Geology Sources, School of Ocean and Earth Sciences,
>Southampton University, U.K.; Minerals of the World, A Field Guide and
>Introduction to the Geology and Chemistry of Minerals...  If anyone has
>other facts that disagree with what I stated I would be happy to see their
>source (strictly out of a search for knowledge and a little curiosity) off
>list.

I'll bet the French have a whole different idea about what is or isn't
flint.  Germans might have something to say as well.

Bloody Lobsterbacks always want folks to think the are the only source of
the first original certified genuine whatever.  Usually because they want
to tax it or broker its distribution.

Remember where ever you are currently lost in the fur trade we are either;
about to engage in, in the middle of, or have recently won a war with these
unrepentant royalists.  Way too soon to be forgiving their sins or granting
credence to any of their utterances.

John...
>

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A free people ought . . . to be armed . . ."

--George Washington, speech of January 7, 1790, printed in the Boston
Independent Chronicle, January 14, 1790.


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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: flint was expertise
Date: 17 May 2002 18:37:11 EDT


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In a message dated 5/17/2002 10:07:14 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:


> If anyone has other facts that disagree with what I stated I would be happy
> to see their source (strictly out of a search for knowledge and a little
> curiosity) off list.

Tim, I wasn't referring to you posts as being petty; only the continuing
pot-shots about TOF, and in one case his List.

The problem here is that 'Flint' is created with specific chemicals and in a
specific matrix (type of clay, etc) that differentiates it from Chert and
other types of Quartz, or 'sparkable' materials.

While I agree with you that the commonly published and/or accepted point of
view is that we ain't got no Flint here, which TOF did say in the forum, he
later cited to me the results of research showing just such a deposit in New
York. All very confusing I know!

 I imagine that if he weren't in the middle of his move right now, we'd have
heard from him. If yer there TOF, what say ye?

Barney

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  COLOR="#0000a0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B>In a message dated 5/17/2002 10:07:14 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [e-mail] writes:<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></B><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#0000a0" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><B>If anyone has other facts that disagree with what I stated I would be happy to see their source (strictly out of a search for knowledge and a little curiosity) off list.</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE></B><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#0000a0" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B><BR>
Tim, I wasn't referring to you posts as being petty; only the continuing pot-shots about TOF, and in one case his List.<BR>
<BR>
The problem here is that 'Flint' is created with specific chemicals and in a specific matrix (type of clay, etc) that differentiates it from Chert and other types of Quartz, or 'sparkable' materials.<BR>
<BR>
While I agree with you that the commonly published and/or accepted point of view is that we ain't got no Flint here, which TOF did say in the forum, he later cited to me the results of research showing just such a deposit in New York. All very confusing I know! <BR>
<BR>
 I imagine that if he weren't in the middle of his move right now, we'd have heard from him. If yer there TOF, what say ye?<BR>
<BR>
Barney</B></FONT></HTML>

--part1_18.1f547eca.2a16e017_boundary--

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: flint was expertise
Date: 17 May 2002 18:41:21 EDT


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In a message dated 5/17/2002 3:30:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:


>  Way too soon to be forgiving their sins or granting
> credence to any of their utterances.
>

AMEN, Brother!

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  COLOR="#0000a0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B>In a message dated 5/17/2002 3:30:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [e-mail] writes:<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></B><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> Way too soon to be forgiving their sins or granting <BR>
credence to any of their utterances.<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#0000a0" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B><BR>
AMEN, Brother!</B></FONT></HTML>

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From: Todd <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Re: Sine-wave bullet trajectories
Date: 17 May 2002 21:22:37 -0500

Hmph.  Sure as heck seemed like the heat climbed up the work when I =
quenched it.

> Sometimes the imagery proposed to help people remember a=20
> complicated fact is
> in fact misleading, even though it may help people remember the likely
> outcome. My favorite is the blacksmith's warning that dipping the end =
of a
> hot iron in water will "chase the heat up the rod" making it likelier =
to
> burn your hand. This is a good reminder that not ALL of the iron=20
> cools right
> off when you quench one part of it, but the implied physics of=20
> the statement
> is completely wrong. Drawing heat from one end will never make=20
> the other end
> get hotter than if you let the iron cool by itself.=20
=20
>=20


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From: "Tim J." <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: flint was expertise
Date: 17 May 2002 22:29:50 -0400

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--Boundary_(ID_g55W5FaZSvCWus3yK4zm4g)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT


  ----- Original Message -----
  From: [e-mail]

  Tim, I wasn't referring to you posts as being petty; only the continuing pot-shots about TOF, and in one case his List.


  Gotcha, I didn't think I had said anything petty.

  The problem here is that 'Flint' is created with specific chemicals and in a specific matrix (type of clay, etc) that differentiates it from Chert and other types of Quartz, or 'sparkable' materials...


  ...All very confusing I know!

  You're not kidding.  Frank send me some info. off list from experts he had spoken to and I read these other opinions from seeming experts.  Guess the real bottom line is, whatever you call it, if it makes sparks and makes your rifle go boom you're all set to make meat.

  Regards,
  Tim





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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2713.1100" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face="BellGothic Blk BT" size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV
  style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
  <A title=[e-mail]
  href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A> </DIV><FONT
  face=arial,helvetica><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"
  face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000a0 size=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT">
  <DIV><BR><STRONG>Tim, I wasn't referring to you posts as being petty; only the
  continuing pot-shots about TOF, and in one case his List.<BR></STRONG></DIV>
  <DIV> </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face="BellGothic Blk BT" color=#000000>Gotcha, I didn't think I had
  said anything petty.</FONT></DIV><FONT face="BellGothic Blk BT"
  color=#000000></FONT>
  <DIV><BR><STRONG>The problem here is that 'Flint' is created with specific
  chemicals and in a specific matrix (type of clay, etc) that differentiates it
  from Chert and other types of Quartz, or 'sparkable'
  materials...<BR><BR></STRONG></DIV>
  <DIV><STRONG>...All very confusing I know!
  <BR></STRONG></DIV><STRONG></STRONG></FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"
  face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000a0 size=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT"><FONT
  face="BellGothic Blk BT" color=#000000>You're not kidding.  Frank send me
  some info. off list from experts he had spoken to and I read these other
  opinions from seeming experts.  Guess the real bottom line is, whatever
  you call it, if it makes sparks and makes your rifle go boom you're all set to
  make meat.</FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face="BellGothic Blk BT" size=2></FONT> </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face="BellGothic Blk BT" size=2>Regards,</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face="BellGothic Blk BT" size=2>Tim</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"
  face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000a0 size=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT"><FONT
  face="BellGothic Blk BT" color=#000000></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"
  face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000a0 size=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT"><FONT
  face="BellGothic Blk BT" color=#000000></FONT> </DIV>
  <DIV><STRONG><BR></STRONG></DIV></FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Sine-wave bullet trajectories
Date: 18 May 2002 21:25:15 -0400

pat---
bet you dont believe in opturation or deformation of a round ball upon
fireing---

nuff said---
HAWK

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: flint was expertise
Date: 18 May 2002 21:17:14 -0400

tim

did you see franks disertation on flint---you might change your mind---he
got booted from the MLML because he posted his facts---

nuff said

hawk-

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: flint was expertise
Date: 18 May 2002 20:53:00 -0400

lanny you were correct in your first response---stick with it and dont
wander---some of the big kids told me to tell you that---dont believe you
or i would fit in the MLML---I got booted for stating the facts---and not
requesting TOF take his proper medication ---one of the ones he needs ir
reality and humility---and its coming---or even body contact upon face to
face contact---


nuff said---

HAWK SAID IT______Nuff said

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: flint was expertise
Date: 18 May 2002 20:47:03 -0400

tell TOF ignorant is as ignorant does---and tell him hawk said it---and
you can quote me on it---

nuff said
hawk---

On Thu, 16 May 2002 23:21:45 -0400 "WindWalker" <[e-mail]>
writes:
> TOF suffers from putting mouth into gear before brain.
> tell him WindWalker said that
> Windwalker
> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
>
> On 5/16/02 at 11:01 PM JIM BRYAN wrote:
> Is that a "sine" of ballistic ignorance?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Lanney Ratcliff
> Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 7:53 PM
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: flint was expertise
>
>   According to TOF there is no flint in the U.S.  And if he sez it,
> it
> must be fact. Ask him.
>
>
> Doesn't TOF run the group that about half believes that a bullet
> will drop
> upon leaving the muzzle, then rise through its trajectory and fall
> again.....thus describing a sine wave???  That is the outfit, ain't
> it.
> It's no wonder there's no flint in the US...parts of it don't obey
> Newtonian
> physics.
> Ol' Fox is still OK with me.
> Lanney
>
>
>
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From: "WindWalker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: flint was expertise
Date: 17 May 2002 21:42:02 -0400

Hawk you think as i do,
I got booted cause really my last name is Windwalker
Fox didnt like it..  nor would approve my posts. and never
did for all the time I was on MLML..
Its coming indeed, hes welcome to trade on my blanket
anytime at a rondy {grin} Ive been know to change attitudes
Windwalker.


*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 5/18/02 at 8:53 PM [e-mail] wrote:

>lanny you were correct in your first response---stick with it and dont
>wander---some of the big kids told me to tell you that---dont believe you
>or i would fit in the MLML---I got booted for stating the facts---and not
>requesting TOF take his proper medication ---one of the ones he needs ir
>reality and humility---and its coming---or even body contact upon face to
>face contact---
>
>
>nuff said---
>
>HAWK SAID IT______Nuff said
>
>________________________________________________________________
>GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
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From: Pat Quilter <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Re: Sine-wave bullet trajectories
Date: 17 May 2002 20:20:16 -0700

Well my explanation was simplified and only considered an ideal rifled ball.
Real-world cases have variables. Smoothbores experience tumble which
deflects the bullet in a random direction. If rifled balls deform, this is a
variable, but as long as the rifling is effective and imparts the desired
spiral spin, deflection caused by deformation should be distributed equally
in all directions, causing at most a slightly spiral path. I would think
that any gun that shoots a good pattern must be controlling these variables
to a pretty fair degree. I can't think of a deformation that would ALWAYS
cause a consistent roller coaster pattern, but I would assume this is why
guns don't shoot perfectly. I admit I shoot very imperfectly!

I'm no expert on ballistics etc so take my opinion for what it's worth. On
the blacksmith issue, I have heard the same reaction as Todd from other
smiths. But I can assure you that heat in solid material ALWAYS travels from
hotter to colder places. It can't be pushed uphill by increased cooling at
one end. So drawing heat out of one end of a bar can only suck away some of
the heat that otherwise could have travelled to the far end. Of course, if
you quench one end, the middle will be left hotter than either end, but I
submit it would be EVEN HOTTER STILL if you just held the bar in free air
for the same amount of time.

Anyway it's no big deal, and I'm off to have fun for a couple of weeks so
best regards to you all.

Pat Quilter

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 6:25 PM


pat---
bet you dont believe in opturation or deformation of a round ball upon
fireing---

nuff said---
HAWK

________________________________________________________________
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From: "rtlahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Sine-wave bullet trajectories
Date: 17 May 2002 21:17:21 -0700

NO body with a lick of sense does Hawk. <G>

Capt. Lahti'


----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 6:25 PM


> pat---
> bet you dont believe in opturation or deformation of a round ball upon
> fireing---
>
> nuff said---
> HAWK
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
>
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> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
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From: "JIM BRYAN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: flint was expertise
Date: 17 May 2002 23:20:55 -0500


------=_NextPart_001_000A_01C1FDF9.7ECE0700
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

What about the prehistoric Alabates Flint Quarry in the Panhandle??

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 5:00 PM

as there is at least one known, properly formed and identified deposit of
Flint in the US.

Barney

>>Barney,
  There is another, little known deposit in Central Texas, near Brady I
think.  It's on private prperty, and there is no access allowed.
LP


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<HTML><BODY STYLE=3D"font:10pt verdana; border:none;"><DIV>What about the=
 prehistoric Alabates Flint Quarry in the Panhandle??</DIV> <DIV> </=
DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-L=
EFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D=
"FONT: 10pt Arial">----- Original Message -----</DIV> <DIV style=3D"BACKG=
ROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt Arial; COLOR: black"><B>From:</B> larry pendle=
ton</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, May 17, 20=
02 5:00 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>To:</B> hist_text@lis=
ts.xmission.com</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re:=
 MtMan-List: flint was expertise</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>as there is at le=
ast one known, properly formed and identified deposit of<BR>Flint in the =
US.<BR><BR>Barney<BR><BR>>>Barney,<BR>  There is another, litt=
le known deposit in Central Texas, near Brady I<BR>think.  It's on p=
rivate prperty, and there is no access allowed.<BR>LP<BR><BR><BR>--------=
--------------<BR>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtm=
an/maillist.html<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From: "Gretchen & Wynn Ormond" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Dead Ducks
Date: 18 May 2002 09:46:15 -0600 (Mountain Daylight Time)


Walked out to feed and check the animals this morning and have a couple of
dead ducks.  Around here we have a lot of hawks, owls, and buzzards, have
also seen/tracked fox, racoon,  skunk, coyote, and possibly stray dogs.  The
ground around the ducks is grassy or rather hard on the surface so there are
few tracks.  One duck showed signs of having been bitten around the neck;
its nearly severed.  The other was partially eaten.  We still need to find 3
other ducks.

Anyway, my question is if anyone will know which preditors are more likely
to go after the neck like that?

Wynn

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From: "Double Edge Forge" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dead Ducks
Date: 18 May 2002 12:11:06 -0400

Mink or ermine, both will kill for pure sport.
D

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 11:46 AM




Walked out to feed and check the animals this morning and have a couple of
dead ducks.  Around here we have a lot of hawks, owls, and buzzards, have
also seen/tracked fox, racoon,  skunk, coyote, and possibly stray dogs.  The
ground around the ducks is grassy or rather hard on the surface so there are
few tracks.  One duck showed signs of having been bitten around the neck;
its nearly severed.  The other was partially eaten.  We still need to find 3
other ducks.



Anyway, my question is if anyone will know which preditors are more likely
to go after the neck like that?



Wynn

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From: "Lee Newbill" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Dead Ducks
Date: 18 May 2002 14:17:21 -0700

Wynn

The only time I've seen stock killed, and not completely eaten, is by feral
animals, such as dogs.  When we get hit with coons or coyotes, there is
seldome a scrap to be found.  Birds of prey will pluck and eat on the spot
if the prey is too large to carry away, but there's always some evidence of
their feeding, and I've never seen them go for more than one animal.

I've read, and heard, that Mink will continue to attack as long as something
is moving... that might be another suspect.  They raise hell in a packed hen
house.

Regards

Lee Newbill
AMM #1821
http://users.potlatch.com/bluethistle/
http://www.mountaintoptradingco.com/

-----Original Message-----
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Gretchen & Wynn
Ormond
Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 8:46 AM


 Walked out to feed and check the animals this morning and have a couple of
dead ducks.  Around here we have a lot of hawks, owls, and buzzards, have
also seen/tracked fox, racoon,  skunk, coyote, and possibly stray dogs.  The
ground around the ducks is grassy or rather hard on the surface so there are
few tracks.  One duck showed signs of having been bitten around the neck;
its nearly severed.  The other was partially eaten.  We still need to find 3
other ducks.  Anyway, my question is if anyone will know which preditors are
more likely
to go after the neck like that?  Wynn

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From: "traprjon" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dead Ducks
Date: 18 May 2002 17:18:05 -0400

Hi Wynn,
    You didn't mention what part of the eaten duck was eaten.  The reason I
ask is because coon's start feeding on the breast meat of a bird after
killing / biting the neck.  K-9's have a bigger appetite and tear the bird
apart eating most of it, making it difficult to say where he started.  Mink
and weasel kill the bird by biting the back of the head and start feeding
there.  They have small stomachs so don't eat much right after the kill, but
will return for later meals.
    I would guess if you have missing ducks, and the partially eaten one
wasn't torn up past what was eaten, you may have a family of coons to deal
with.  You also didn't mention if the ducks were in a pen and how they got
out or the predator got in.  K-9's tend to take killed food away to eat
elsewhere and may not have left the partly eaten one for you to find.  I
know this isn't an exact answer, but it is hard to say without more
information or seeing the damage done.  In any event, if you plan to have a
trapper catch the predator, the same (well tuned and well steaked) foot
traps will catch either coon's or K-9's.  Good luck.
Sincerely,
John Enos
TrapRJohn
[e-mail]
****************************************************************
"The saddest epitaph which can be carved in memory of a vanished liberty,
is that it was lost because it's possessors failed to stretch forth a saving
hand,
while yet there was time."    -- Justice George Sutherland, 1938
****************************************************************
"Government is not reason; it is not eloquence. It is Force. And Force, like
fire,
is a Dangerous servant and a fearful master."  -- George Washington


----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 11:46 AM



Walked out to feed and check the animals this morning and have a couple of
dead ducks.  Around here we have a lot of hawks, owls, and buzzards, have
also seen/tracked fox, racoon,  skunk, coyote, and possibly stray dogs.  The
ground around the ducks is grassy or rather hard on the surface so there are
few tracks.  One duck showed signs of having been bitten around the neck;
its nearly severed.  The other was partially eaten.  We still need to find 3
other ducks.

Anyway, my question is if anyone will know which preditors are more likely
to go after the neck like that?

Wynn

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From: "Frank" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: flint question RIP
Date: 18 May 2002 17:11:02 -0500

    The expert source of my comments about flint in the U.S. has been
requested. That will be found below.
    First, a little explanation of what I have learned. One of the expert
sources I used was the Arkansas State geologist. I sent his full explanation
to the MLML then deleted it from my hard drive. I presume those who have not
been thrown off the list by TOF for being either: truthful, an Arkansan or a
Native American can still find that posting in the archives.
    In essense he said that there are many and vast deposits of flint in the
U.S. Using the accepted texts for geologists he pointed out that there are
two types of deposits. One is the nodule type that we Americans generally
associated with the white chalk mines found in England. The other is called
'imbedded' and that is what we usually find in America. Entire hillsides or
mountains can be made of the stuff. Geologically, the imbedded stuff is
termed "chert". But chert is flint. There is no difference except for how it
is deposited in the earth.
    Admittedly, I and most folks I know usually call low grade flint as
chert. I always have in the past. But that is an incorrect application of
the term. Chert is not a dirty word.
    Below is my original question to another expert and his response. (the
copy & pasting put his answer before my original questions)
<<<
<<<Dear Mr. Fusco,
In reply to your questions regarding flint, or chert as it is also known I
can tell you several things. Flint is a sedimentary rock composed primarily
of extremely fine silica crystals. In other words, it is a quartz composed
of very small fibrous crystals. It is found all over the U.S., especially
in the eastern Appalachian mountains and in the Ozarks. Since flint is
usually found in fairly small deposits, the knowledge of its presence is
usually due to its exposure by previous human occupation and use. In the
west, where obsidian, a much better material for flintknapping, is
available, you therefore have fewer exposed deposits. That is not to say
that they are not there, however.
To address your second question,no, flint does not dry out when exposed to
normal atmospheric air. In fact, normal air has a much higher moisture
content than does flint. Flint actually absorbs moisture when exposed to
air, although at a rate imperceptible over a normal human lifespan.
Archaeologists often use this principal to date stone artifacts by
measuring how much moisture a knapped artifact has absorbed, not lost, over
a period of time. In fact, it is its inherent brittleness that makes it so
useful as a tool. The neolithic southeastern Native American nations in
fact would "cure" or superheat flint cores so as to boil as much moisture
out of them as possible and increase their brittleness. Glass, which is our
most brittle common material used in flintknapping, is in fact the best
material there is.
When flintknapping, the action of the strike is designed to transmit a
conchoidal wave of energy through the material in such a way as to fracture
the stone along this wave. Only very dense, homogenous, hard material can
transmit this wave effectively. Anything soft just disperses the energy and
will not fracture correctly. Please refer to the following webpage offered
by the Arizona State University. It is a fantastic resource for anything
archaeologically related and was a great help to me when I was studying
this in college.
http://archnet.asu.edu/archnet/

Ben Crowley
USGS Information Technician
507 National Center
Reston, VA 20192
1-888-Ask-USGS




                    "Frank Fusco"
                    <frankf@cox-int        To:     <[e-mail]>
                    ernet.com>             cc:
                                           Subject:     flint question
                    10/07/2001
                    01:13 PM





    A [supposedly] knowledgable individual has stated that there is no
flint
in the United States.  He has made other statements regarding flint which I
believe are incorrect.  Please answer the following questions.

    1) Is flint found naturally in the United States? If, yes, please
document and explain briefly where.

    2) Flint if left in air will 'dry' out and become brittle. Flint
intended for knapping should be stored in water or oil to retain its
internal moisture.  true or false?     >>>>

Frank G. Fusco
Mountain Home, Arkansas
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/ozarksmuzzleloaders








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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dead Ducks
Date: 18 May 2002 18:14:54 EDT


In a message dated 5/18/02 10:12:04 AM, [e-mail] writes:

<<Anyway, my question is if anyone will know which preditors are more likely

to go after the neck like that?>>

Instinct.  I had a pet coyote and a total of 42 wolves over the years.
Traditionally kills were neck bites.  That coyote got loose and wiped out 18
chickens and four turkeys, had them partially buried and going after more
when I caught him.  All were neck bites.  One of the wolves wiped out a goat
the same way. One wolf, however, got two rabbits without even breaking the
skin.  She would grab and hold them and then turn them loose - repeatedly.
Soon their eyes just went glazed and their hearts stopped.

I like dogs - some, anyway, but after the coyote and the wolves they will
always be my pet of choice.

Cheers
Dick James

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From: "rtlahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: flint question RIP
Date: 18 May 2002 17:09:27 -0700

Frank,

I'm certainly not taking sides on this issue as far as the existence of
flint in this country or it's distribution nor do I defend or condemn the
actions of former members of mlml or the list owner. But I would point out
something of interest.

If you read the letter sent you by Ben Crowley
 USGS Information Technician very carefully and with an open mind you may
see that he is being very cavalier about what he calls flint and even so far
as to how it is formed. Not that he is trying to deceive but he does appear
to be mistaking a question about the scientifically specific question of the
rock known as flint in England and elsewhere with the anthropological
activity of turning "flint like" rock into useful artifacts.

He starts off by identifying flint as a sedimentary rock of silica crystals
then includes comments about glass and obsidian as though they are forms of
flint when we all know they are not. Perhaps they are made of the same
materials i.e.. silica but both are the result of heat sufficient to
actually melt and turn the material into a liquid state prior to cooling to
the form we know. Much if not all such forms of workable "flint like" rock
out west here is a result of volcanic action. In fact in central OR. at
Glassy Butte which is a series of hills that once were volcanic cinder
cones, you can pick up obsidian that looks like a more gray grade of English
Flint. It works as flint does in that it will throw a spark off a steel but
it is not flint. It is obsidian. It appears in the same area as black glass
obsidian, mahogany colored obsidian and probably other color forms. And
perhaps it's opaqueness is what gives it flint like properties to throw a
spark because black obsidian will not. Nor will glass. Too pure and too
hard.

The Indians of this region must have been prolific arrow head makers as
various styles of points can be found laying all over the place. Obsidian is
not the only material they made points and blades from but it is the most
common and they made some very intricate designs too. So it is very
desirable stuff for "knapping".

I guess what I am suggesting here is that we have to be very careful what we
ask of "experts" and then we also have to be very careful of how we read
what they tell us.

Again, I have no knowledge of whether there is actually true flint deposits
in the Americas or not. But the heat generated forms of such rock is not
flint but obsidian, etc. in the sense of what we historically call flint.
Hell, you can get a good grade of basalt to throw a spark and you can even
work it after a fashion by knapping but that don't make it flint.

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'


----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 3:11 PM


>     The expert source of my comments about flint in the U.S. has been
> requested. That will be found below.
>     First, a little explanation of what I have learned. One of the expert
> sources I used was the Arkansas State geologist. I sent his full
explanation
> to the MLML then deleted it from my hard drive. I presume those who have
not
> been thrown off the list by TOF for being either: truthful, an Arkansan or
a
> Native American can still find that posting in the archives.
>     In essense he said that there are many and vast deposits of flint in
the
> U.S. Using the accepted texts for geologists he pointed out that there are
> two types of deposits. One is the nodule type that we Americans generally
> associated with the white chalk mines found in England. The other is
called
> 'imbedded' and that is what we usually find in America. Entire hillsides
or
> mountains can be made of the stuff. Geologically, the imbedded stuff is
> termed "chert". But chert is flint. There is no difference except for how
it
> is deposited in the earth.
>     Admittedly, I and most folks I know usually call low grade flint as
> chert. I always have in the past. But that is an incorrect application of
> the term. Chert is not a dirty word.
>     Below is my original question to another expert and his response. (the
> copy & pasting put his answer before my original questions)
> <<<
> <<<Dear Mr. Fusco,
> In reply to your questions regarding flint, or chert as it is also known I
> can tell you several things. Flint is a sedimentary rock composed
primarily
> of extremely fine silica crystals. In other words, it is a quartz composed
> of very small fibrous crystals. It is found all over the U.S., especially
> in the eastern Appalachian mountains and in the Ozarks. Since flint is
> usually found in fairly small deposits, the knowledge of its presence is
> usually due to its exposure by previous human occupation and use. In the
> west, where obsidian, a much better material for flintknapping, is
> available, you therefore have fewer exposed deposits. That is not to say
> that they are not there, however.
> To address your second question,no, flint does not dry out when exposed to
> normal atmospheric air. In fact, normal air has a much higher moisture
> content than does flint. Flint actually absorbs moisture when exposed to
> air, although at a rate imperceptible over a normal human lifespan.
> Archaeologists often use this principal to date stone artifacts by
> measuring how much moisture a knapped artifact has absorbed, not lost,
over
> a period of time. In fact, it is its inherent brittleness that makes it so
> useful as a tool. The neolithic southeastern Native American nations in
> fact would "cure" or superheat flint cores so as to boil as much moisture
> out of them as possible and increase their brittleness. Glass, which is
our
> most brittle common material used in flintknapping, is in fact the best
> material there is.
> When flintknapping, the action of the strike is designed to transmit a
> conchoidal wave of energy through the material in such a way as to
fracture
> the stone along this wave. Only very dense, homogenous, hard material can
> transmit this wave effectively. Anything soft just disperses the energy
and
> will not fracture correctly. Please refer to the following webpage offered
> by the Arizona State University. It is a fantastic resource for anything
> archaeologically related and was a great help to me when I was studying
> this in college.
> http://archnet.asu.edu/archnet/
>
> Ben Crowley
> USGS Information Technician
> 507 National Center
> Reston, VA 20192
> 1-888-Ask-USGS
>
>
>
>
>                     "Frank Fusco"
>                     <frankf@cox-int        To:     <[e-mail]>
>                     ernet.com>             cc:
>                                            Subject:     flint question
>                     10/07/2001
>                     01:13 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>     A [supposedly] knowledgable individual has stated that there is no
> flint
> in the United States.  He has made other statements regarding flint which
I
> believe are incorrect.  Please answer the following questions.
>
>     1) Is flint found naturally in the United States? If, yes, please
> document and explain briefly where.
>
>     2) Flint if left in air will 'dry' out and become brittle. Flint
> intended for knapping should be stored in water or oil to retain its
> internal moisture.  true or false?     >>>>
>
> Frank G. Fusco
> Mountain Home, Arkansas
> http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/ozarksmuzzleloaders
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>


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From: "larry pendleton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dead Ducks
Date: 18 May 2002 20:31:58 -0700

Mink or ermine, both will kill for pure sport.
D

>>So will a SKUNK .
LP


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From: "jay geisinger" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dead Ducks
Date: 18 May 2002 19:56:19 -0700

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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    charset="iso-8859-1"
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Wynn,

I would lean towards a feral cat or dog.  I have white feathered =
chickens amongst others and the nearest neighbor with the same is 17 =
miles by road 12 cross country.  I have found piles of feathers from =
coyote kills over 7 miles from either of us.  Last time I started =
missing chickens and finding carcass pieces still near the coop it was a =
27lb feral tom and before my son did him in with a well placed load of =
buck and ball from his 69 cal. he had taken to killing during the day.

PoorBoy

------=_NextPart_000_003B_01C1FEA6.13B8A9E0
Content-Type: text/html;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Wynn,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I would lean towards a feral cat or =
dog.  I=20
have white feathered chickens amongst others and the nearest neighbor =
with the=20
same is 17 miles by road 12 cross country.  I have found piles of =
feathers=20
from coyote kills over 7 miles from either of us.  Last time I =
started=20
missing chickens and finding carcass pieces still near the coop it was a =
27lb=20
feral tom and before my son did him in with a well placed load of buck =
and ball=20
from his 69 cal. he had taken to killing during the day.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>PoorBoy</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dead Ducks
Date: 18 May 2002 23:43:33 EDT

Wynn,

A fine old trapper educated me that the culprit is likely mink or weasel
family member - esp. if you reasonably near water.  Check around and see if
you can find the duck remains stashed anywhere and set up 110's around the
carcass in a circle so it has to pass through to get to its stash.  Or just
in front of it if far enough back in a cubby/hole.
You'll get your critter.

-C.Kent

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From: Todd Glover <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dead Ducks
Date: 18 May 2002 22:19:34 -0600

Something in the weasel family is my bet Wynn.

Todd
On Sat, 18 May 2002 09:46:15 -0600 (Mountain Daylight Time) "Gretchen &
Wynn Ormond" <[e-mail]> writes:
>
> Walked out to feed and check the animals this morning and have a
> couple of
> dead ducks.  Around here we have a lot of hawks, owls, and buzzards,
> have
> also seen/tracked fox, racoon,  skunk, coyote, and possibly stray
> dogs.  The
> ground around the ducks is grassy or rather hard on the surface so
> there are
> few tracks.  One duck showed signs of having been bitten around the
> neck;
> its nearly severed.  The other was partially eaten.  We still need
> to find 3
> other ducks.
>
> Anyway, my question is if anyone will know which preditors are more
> likely
> to go after the neck like that?
>
> Wynn
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info:
> http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


"Teton" Todd D. Glover #1784
http://poisonriverparty.homestead.com/TetonTodd.html

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dead Ducks
Date: 19 May 2002 11:45:35 -0400

WYNN
sounds like mink or weasels doing the dirty work---they will kill just
for the thrill and the blood of it---

hawk

________________________________________________________________
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From: Joe Brandl <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dead Ducks
Date: 19 May 2002 14:19:46 -0600

98% sure it was dogs
joe
--
Please visit our web site @ www.absarokawesterndesign.com
Call us for spring discounts on hair on deer and elk skins
Great selection of elk and buffalo rawhide in stock

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From: "Angela Gottfred" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: royalists (was: flint)
Date: 19 May 2002 20:57:33 -0600

> Remember where ever you are currently lost in the fur trade we are
either;
> about to engage in, in the middle of, or have recently won a war with
these
> unrepentant royalists.  Way too soon to be forgiving their sins or
granting
> credence to any of their utterances.

*ahem* Some of us *are* the unrepentant royalists mentioned above. I
would have been loyal to the Sovereign in 1806, and I certainly am now.
Tomorrow, I and my compatriots celebrate the anniversary of the birth of
Queen Victoria as a national holiday.

God save King George III!
And God save our gracious Queen of Canada and the Commonwealth,
Elizabeth II, who is now in her Golden Jubilee year.

Your loyal (and Loyalist) servant,
Angela Gottfred



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From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: royalists (was: flint)
Date: 20 May 2002 02:33:08 -0500

Angela,

In 1812 The United States and Canada weren't quite as lovey-dovey as today.

I was trying to focus the topic back on something related to history not
ideological geology.

Drink a bottle of that nicely blended Hudson's Bay Rum you've got up there
in honor of whichever of your Monarchs you most favor; for me.

John...

At 09:57 PM 5/19/02, you wrote:

>*ahem* Some of us *are* the unrepentant royalists mentioned above. I
>would have been loyal to the Sovereign in 1806, and I certainly am now.
>Tomorrow, I and my compatriots celebrate the anniversary of the birth of
>Queen Victoria as a national holiday.
>
>God save King George III!
>And God save our gracious Queen of Canada and the Commonwealth,
>Elizabeth II, who is now in her Golden Jubilee year.
>
>Your loyal (and Loyalist) servant,
>Angela Gottfred
>
>----------------------

~~~~~~~
In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man and brave, and
hated and scorned.
When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to
be a patriot."
Mark Twain


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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dead Ducks
Date: 20 May 2002 08:28:33 EDT


--part1_22.28db1350.2a1a45f1_boundary
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In a message dated 5/18/02 11:48:21 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:


> The other was partially eaten.  We still need to find 3
> other ducks.
>
> Anyway, my question is if anyone will know which preditors are more likely
> to go after the neck like that?
>

Possum will go for the head and neck and often eat a duck or a chicken from
the head down leaving the main body and then kill another and eat the head
and neck then kill another etc.



Y.M.O.S.

C.T. Oakes

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 5/18/02 11:48:21 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [e-mail] writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">The other was partially eaten.  We still need to find 3
<BR>other ducks.
<BR>
<BR>Anyway, my question is if anyone will know which preditors are more likely
<BR>to go after the neck like that?
<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>
<BR>Possum will go for the head and neck and often eat a duck or a chicken from the head down leaving the main body and then kill another and eat the head and neck then kill another etc.
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=4 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Lucida Handwriting" LANG="0">Y.M.O.S.
<BR>
<BR>C.T. Oakes</FONT></HTML>

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dead Ducks
Date: 20 May 2002 11:27:46 EDT


In a message dated 5/20/02 5:31:09 AM, [e-mail] writes:

<< Anyway, my question is if anyone will know which preditors are more likely
> to go after the neck like that?
>

Possum will go for the head and neck  >>

Naw.... Wynn, I'm thinking it's gotta be a Ranthepoid! (ran'-the-poy-d).
That's a big, hairy, three leggid (fourth leg has turned into a large claw)
varmint that scares ducks and folks so bad that they can't even run (or
quack). They've been know to start with ducks, then take out a whole
neighborhood! The onlyest trap that might hold em would be three  #6 Newhouse
wid teeth..... but be careful of the claw.
Iffin I was you though, I'd jist forget about them ducks, grab yer bride and
yungins and head out to Nationals for some protection.

Magpie

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From: "Gretchen & Wynn Ormond" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dead Ducks
Date: 20 May 2002 12:15:30 -0600 (Mountain Daylight Time)


Hey Magpie,

Thanks for the heads up... never knew such a thing existed, but leave it to
a wiry old mountain man to be informed about such a critter.  I'm a thinking
it is a good thing that there is only one neighbor in the "neighborhood",
and he might even like it if some thing were to wipe out his herd... wouldn
t have to milk em again.  You are a true friend for looking out for Wynn's
interests and such... especially since Nationals seems to be the only safe
place to be.

YMOS
Wynn's Bride

-------Original Message-------


In a message dated 5/20/02 5:31:09 AM, [e-mail] writes:

<< Anyway, my question is if anyone will know which preditors are more
likely
> to go after the neck like that?
>

Possum will go for the head and neck >>

Naw.... Wynn, I'm thinking it's gotta be a Ranthepoid! (ran'-the-poy-d).
That's a big, hairy, three leggid (fourth leg has turned into a large claw)
varmint that scares ducks and folks so bad that they can't even run (or
quack). They've been know to start with ducks, then take out a whole
neighborhood! The onlyest trap that might hold em would be three #6 Newhouse

wid teeth..... but be careful of the claw.
Iffin I was you though, I'd jist forget about them ducks, grab yer bride and

yungins and head out to Nationals for some protection.

Magpie

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dead Ducks
Date: 20 May 2002 19:00:10 EDT


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Last week my sister-in-law saw a fox try and make of with one of her ducks.
The fox snatched it up by the neck and ran off. She was able to run it down
shouting like a mad woman (which she usually is) and scare it off and save
the duck.
Mark "Roadkill" Loader

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Last week my sister-in-law saw a fox try and make of with one of her ducks. The fox snatched it up by the neck and ran off. She was able to run it down shouting like a mad woman (which she usually is) and scare it off and save the duck.
<BR>Mark "Roadkill" Loader</FONT></HTML>

--part1_145.ebe81d3.2a1ad9fa_boundary--

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: Test
Date: 23 May 2002 11:38:45 EDT

I got a note from [e-mail] entitled "Teminated" I'm not sure who
amm1585 is or what the note said, because I couldn't open the attachment, so
thinking it may have been a virus.
But then mebbe I've been kicked off the Lists.....which has happened before.
Something about my "bad attitude".... <G>

Magpie

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: Terminated
Date: 23 May 2002 13:02:29 EDT


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Magpie, I think AMM1584 is Lanney's newest eMail, but I wouldn't swear to it.
 Your mail came through fine!  Best to you and yours,  Barney

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  COLOR="#0000a0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B>Magpie, I think AMM1584 is Lanney's newest eMail, but I wouldn't swear to it.  Your mail came through fine!  Best to you and yours,  Barney</B></FONT></HTML>

--part1_f2.1bfe9fa7.2a1e7aa5_boundary--

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:  Terminated in Pinedale
Date: 23 May 2002 14:10:10 EDT


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I just seen Lanney yesterday over to Pinedale, Wyoming at the Museum of the
Mountain Men. He was about arm pit deep with school kids and for Lanney
that's a mess of kids! There was Twenty 28 AMM brothers there from all over
doing demos for the school kids. Allen and I went over to put the finishing
touches on the AMM display for this year. Them boys got showed first hand why
they called that Fort of Bonneville's, Fort Nonsense. Tuesday they got about
four inches of snow dumped on them in true Pinedale fashion, side ways! The
wind was blowing so hard when Allen & I got there the snow was all most all
gone, must have got all blowed off the East some where's. The Coyote in me
tried to help them out so I told Coyote legends to the kids before we left.
For you that don't know the telling of Coyote legend should only be done in
the winter for telling them at this time of year will only bring snow and bad
weather. (B.G.)
Any way I don't think the Email came from Lanney cause he ain't home.
See on the trail
Crazy Cyot

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>I just seen Lanney yesterday over to Pinedale, Wyoming at the Museum of the Mountain Men. He was about arm pit deep with school kids and for Lanney that's a mess of kids! There was Twenty 28 AMM brothers there from all over doing demos for the school kids. Allen and I went over to put the finishing touches on the AMM display for this year. Them boys got showed first hand why they called that Fort of Bonneville's, Fort Nonsense. Tuesday they got about four inches of snow dumped on them in true Pinedale fashion, side ways! The wind was blowing so hard when Allen & I got there the snow was all most all gone, must have got all blowed off the East some where's. The Coyote in me tried to help them out so I told Coyote legends to the kids before we left. For you that don't know the telling of Coyote legend should only be done in the winter for telling them at this time of year will only bring snow and bad weather. (B.G.)
<BR>Any way I don't think the Email came from Lanney cause he ain't home.
<BR>See on the trail
<BR>Crazy Cyot</FONT></HTML>

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:  Terminated in Pinedale
Date: 23 May 2002 14:48:53 EDT


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That was 28  Brothers not Twenty 28 oops!

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>That was 28  Brothers not Twenty 28 oops!</FONT></HTML>

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From: "Lee Newbill" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Fort Vancouver Brigade Encampment
Date: 23 May 2002 13:14:29 -0700

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C2025B.C5B81410
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    charset="US-ASCII"
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Gentlemen and Gentleladies

An event of the Pacific Northwest......

-----Original Message-----

What: Fort Vancouver Brigade Encampment

a.. When: June 22 & 23
a.. Where: Fort Vancouver National Historic Site
a.. Details: This annual event highlights the Hudson's Bay Company workers
at Fort Vancouver and the fort's role as Company headquarters in the west.
Reenactors will portray HBC employees and families. Highlights include:
riverfront boat landing, musket demonstration, and voyageur songs.
a.. Fees: None
a.. Points of Contact: Jon Burpee, 612 E. Reserve Street, Vancouver, WA
98661
[e-mail]


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    charset="US-ASCII"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2716.2200" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D405521220-23052002>Gentlemen and =
Gentleladies</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D405521220-23052002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D405521220-23052002>An=20
event of the Pacific Northwest......</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Jon Burpee=20
[mailto:[e-mail]]<BR></FONT></DIV>
<P><BIG><FONT size=3D4><STRONG>What:</STRONG> Fort Vancouver Brigade=20
Encampment</FONT></BIG> </P>
<LI><BIG></BIG><BIG><FONT size=3D4><STRONG>When:</STRONG> June 22 =
&=20
23 </FONT></BIG>=20
<LI><BIG><FONT size=3D4><STRONG>Where: </STRONG>Fort Vancouver National =
Historic=20
Site</FONT></BIG>=20
<LI><BIG><FONT size=3D4><STRONG>Details: </STRONG>This annual event =

highlights the Hudson's Bay Company workers at Fort Vancouver and the =
fort's=20
role as Company headquarters in the west. Reenactors will portray =
HBC=20
employees and families. Highlights include: riverfront boat landing, =
musket=20
demonstration, and voyageur songs. </FONT></BIG>=20
<LI><BIG><FONT size=3D4><STRONG>Fees: </STRONG>None</FONT></BIG>=20
<LI><BIG><FONT size=3D4><STRONG>Points of Contact: </STRONG>Jon Burpee, =
612 E.=20
Reserve Street, Vancouver, WA 98661</FONT></BIG>=20
<P><BIG><FONT size=3D4><A=20
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A></FONT></BIG></P><=
/LI></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C2025B.C5B81410--


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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:  Terminated in Pinedale
Date: 23 May 2002 18:27:36 EDT


In a message dated 5/23/02 11:11:08 AM, [e-mail] writes:

<< Any way I don't think the Email came from Lanney cause he ain't home.
See on the trail >>

Thanks boys....everything seems to be working OK. Mebbe just some of them
"free electrons" rasin hell.... I'm packed (and pumped) for Nationals! Can't
wait to get outta here.....

Magpie


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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:  Terminated in Pinedale
Date: 23 May 2002 19:51:57 EDT


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Magpie, That address ([e-mail]) is definitely Lanney's...  You
might want to let him know that you got that spurious eMail so he can check
to see if someone was on his account, he got a bug, etc.   Barn

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  COLOR="#0000a0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B>Magpie, That address ([e-mail]) is definitely Lanney's...  You might want to let him know that you got that spurious eMail so he can check to see if someone was on his account, he got a bug, etc.   Barn </B></FONT></HTML>

--part1_9.286b9f3d.2a1eda9d_boundary--

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:  Terminated in Pinedale
Date: 23 May 2002 21:40:06 EDT


In a message dated 5/23/02 4:52:43 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< You
might want to let him know that you got that spurious eMail so he can check
to see if someone was on his account, he got a bug, etc.   >>

I'll do that.... thanks.

Mag

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From: JW Stephens <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: OT: Klez worm  was: Terminated in Pinedale
Date: 23 May 2002 18:42:16 -0700

The Klez worm has the ability to spoof the "From" address and send
e-mails. It plows through the address book on an infected computer and
uses the addresses it finds for To: and From: which is causing a lot of
confusion and bad feelings. Here's more:

http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,52055,00.html

B'st'rd (dealing with it and others on an e-mail list with 1,000
subscribers)

[e-mail] wrote:
>
> Magpie, That address ([e-mail]) is definitely Lanney's...
> You might want to let him know that you got that spurious eMail so he
> can check to see if someone was on his account, he got a bug, etc.
> Barn


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From: Ronald Schrotter <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: virus from Lanney
Date: 24 May 2002 13:55:58 -0700 (PDT)

Ho the List
Lanney here at Ron Schrotter's house in Wyoming.
Apparantly a nasty bug has been spread from my OLD
email address.  I haven't used [e-mail]
for a long time.....two or three months or more.  I
only just got to Ron's house and found out about the
virus about 20 minutes ago.
DO NOT OPEN ANY EMAIL FROM THAT OLD ADDRESS.  The only
email address I use is [e-mail].  If
you get mail from any other address it ain't from me.
I don't know how it could be coming from that address.
I will post my wife and ask her to call Hypernet (the
old isp) and Charter (the new isp) to find out what
might be happening.  She will post to the list from my
new address and let you know what is happening.
later
Lanney


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
http://launch.yahoo.com

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: virus from Lanney
Date: 24 May 2002 18:05:08 EDT


In a message dated 5/24/02 1:57:04 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< Apparantly a nasty bug has been spread from my OLD
email address. >>

Thanks Lanney.... I'll call off Bug's Boys.....<G>

Magpie

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From: Ronald Schrotter <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: virus from Lanney
Date: 24 May 2002 16:51:10 -0700 (PDT)


My wife doublechecked this afternoon with HyperUsa and
they confirmed that no messages have been sent from
the amm1585@hyperusa address since we deactivated it.
She DID say that Norton had caught and killed a bug
that my email got from amm944.  I think that is Jon
Town's address.  Jon was also in Pinedale this week so
he couldn't have sent it either.  Apparantly this bug
is a really sneaky devil that is mixing and matching
email addresses in both the to and from lines.
Would really like to catch just ONE of these little
cretins.
Lanney.....still at Ron Schrotter's house.

--- [e-mail] wrote:
>
> In a message dated 5/24/02 1:57:04 PM,
> [e-mail] writes:
>
> << Apparantly a nasty bug has been spread from my
> OLD
> email address. >>
>
> Thanks Lanney.... I'll call off Bug's Boys.....<G>
>
> Magpie
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info:
http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
http://launch.yahoo.com

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From: JW Stephens <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: virus from Lanney
Date: 24 May 2002 18:51:33 -0700

Again: you missed my point from my last posting:

>> The address of an e-mail that you received with a virus now indicates NOTHING. The Klez Worm spoofs the From: address with an address picked at random from an address book. Just because someone got a post that appeared to be from Lanney ... it did not come from Lanney. It came from someone else who had Lanney's old address in their address book. <<

There, did that 'splain it?

Nuff said?

B'st'rd

Ronald Schrotter wrote:
>
> My wife doublechecked this afternoon with HyperUsa and
> they confirmed that no messages have been sent from
> the amm1585@hyperusa address since we deactivated it.
> She DID say that Norton had caught and killed a bug
> that my email got from amm944.  I think that is Jon
> Town's address.  Jon was also in Pinedale this week so
> he couldn't have sent it either.  Apparantly this bug
> is a really sneaky devil that is mixing and matching
> email addresses in both the to and from lines.
> Would really like to catch just ONE of these little
> cretins.
> Lanney.....still at Ron Schrotter's house.
>
> --- [e-mail] wrote:
> >
> > In a message dated 5/24/02 1:57:04 PM,
> > [e-mail] writes:
> >
> > << Apparantly a nasty bug has been spread from my
> > OLD
> > email address. >>
> >
> > Thanks Lanney.... I'll call off Bug's Boys.....<G>
> >
> > Magpie
> >
> > ----------------------
> > hist_text list info:
> http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
> http://launch.yahoo.com
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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From: "James Zeigler" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Minnesota Question
Date: 27 May 2002 19:14:30 -0400

Hello List: Planning a trip to see my daughter in Minnesota, middle
of June. Was wondering if there are any good Fur Trade sites I
could see while visiting? Any info would be appreciated. Thanks in
advance,...Jim


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From: Jim Lindberg <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Minnesota Question
Date: 27 May 2002 19:15:23 -0500

There is the Northwest Fur Post near Pine City, Minnesota.
Reconstructed post on an actual site, they have a new interpretation
center opening this year.  Across the St. Croix and north is Forts Folle
Avoine, reconstructed Northwest and XY posts as well as a museum, to bad
you'll be early for the Midwest Nationals that will be there 3rd week in
July.  Folle Avoine (means crazy oats or wild rice) is north of Webster,
Wisconsin.

Jim
---
[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus]


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From: "Angela Gottfred" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Minnesota Question
Date: 27 May 2002 19:51:13 -0600

"James Zeigler" [e-mail] wrote:
>>Hello List: Planning a trip to see my daughter in Minnesota, middle of
June. Was wondering if there are any good Fur Trade sites I could see
while visiting?<<

I've only had the chance to have a brief visit to Grand Portage, but
here are some other great fur trade sites you can check out on the
internet:

Grand Portage http://www.grandportagemn.com/monument.html
North West Company Fur Post http://www.mnhs.org/places/sites/nwcfp/
Voyageurs National Park http://www.voyageurs.national-park.com/
White Oak Fur Post http://www.whiteoak.org/

There are also some great folks at the NWC Fur Post & at White Oak.

Your very humble & most obedient servant,
Angela Gottfred






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From: "Double Edge Forge" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: New Feature
Date: 29 May 2002 08:30:48 -0400

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_00FF_01C206EB.2261A120
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Please excuse the crass commercial announcement. But due to many =
requests, whining and tearing of flesh & hair. I now take plastic.
Thanks
D

   "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
            DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
       Knives and Iron Accouterments
      http://www.bright.net/~deforge1

   "Knowing how is just the beginning."

------=_NextPart_000_00FF_01C206EB.2261A120
Content-Type: text/html;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Please excuse the crass commercial =
announcement.=20
But due to many requests, whining and tearing of flesh & hair. I now =
take=20
plastic.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>D</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>   "Abair ach beagan is abair =
gu math=20
e"<BR>            =
DOUBLE=20
EDGE FORGE<BR>       Knives and Iron=20
Accouterments<BR>      <A=20
href=3D"http://www.bright.net/~deforge1">http://www.bright.net/~deforge1<=
/A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>   "Knowing how is just the=20
beginning."</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_00FF_01C206EB.2261A120--


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