ftp.xmission.com/2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar/ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/hats/archive/hats.200008

Internet Message Format | 2000-08-20 | 37KB

From: Thomas Bieler <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Re: CD vs MP3
Date: 01 Aug 2000 21:43:24 +0200 (CEST)


Ok, folks, my 2p:

I also think mp3 mean a loss of sound quality, but I wonder if this is
still true for those old demos(DEMOS!) and live recordings (LIVE
RECORDINGS!) that we are talking about. Tape noise and head rumbling might
lose some definition, but is there any MUSIC left that would be affected
by compression?

Thomas



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From: "Richard Holdman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) my two cents about mp3
Date: 01 Aug 2000 15:43:39 -0600


I fell that everything should be released in MP3 format and if people have
the resources they should also make audio CDs.

It is so much easier to put mp3s on a web site and let people download them.
I would make all the mp3s at 4 different quality bit rates.

128kps (A few people would notice the difference)
192kps (Hardly anybody would know the difference)
256kps (You think you might know the difference)
320kps (Nobody would know the difference)

Then I would release audio Cds for those that need to have the raw audio
format and those that like the custom artwork.

I know that some of the concerns in the past was people don't want to listen
to mp3 files on their tiny little $5 computer speakers.

It is very easy to convert a mp3 file back into a raw Audio file (WAV or
AIFF) and burn a normal audio cd so you can listen to the songs on your
super deluxe neioughborhood bass shaking 5.1 dolby digital home theather
system. Plus many people have mp3 players hooked up to their stereo system
(I have a portable CD/MP3 player, Apex DVD/MP3, Memory based portable mp3
player, and a Pent/75 computer in my car trunk cranking out tunes through my
stereo)

I am not against making Audio Cds for those that want them. I just think it
makes a lot more sense to release it first in mp3 format so people can
download it from anywhere in the world and have it faster.

When you limit the distribution only to CDs there are going to be many
people that are going to miss out including those that can not afford it or
if they are "Living in China"

I Vote for both.

-Richard
---
Check out my new web site at http://www.CarDealerReports.com



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From: "Richard Holdman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (hats) Covers, hats site, Tshirts.
Date: 01 Aug 2000 16:21:28 -0600


Even though I am totally for the mp3 format I would have to say there is a
difference between cds and mp3s at 128kps.

Now if you do a blindfolded test with Cds and mp3s at 256kps encoded with
the Fraunhofer encoder nobody would know the difference.

I have sat for hours comparing the difference. I can usually tell a
difference with 128kps and maybe just a little with 160kps and it is very
hard for me to tell a difference with 192kps and anything over that I have
no chance of telling a difference. Then there is 320kps which I think nobody
could even tell the difference.

There is also a big difference in MP3 encoders. I have tested many different
encoders and you have to make sure to use the Fraunhofer encoder. Also mp3
decoders make a difference also. Winamp has a very good decompressor (which
is the most popular) but there are some cheap ones out there that will not
decode the mp3s as good as other ones.

You say MP3 to somebody and they think you just said "Join the Dark Side,
Luke"

-Richard

-----Original Message-----

Right...
I DARE you to do a blindfolded (Pepsi/Coke) test between
CD and Mp3 at 128000 bps!
This is JUST a comment on quality...
I don't take any other stands right here and now!




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From: "Richard Holdman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: FW: (hats) CDs, MDs, LPs, Paper Tapes (HAHA!), and MP3s...
Date: 01 Aug 2000 16:23:13 -0600



Even though MiniDisc is a good format it is going to die as a consumer
format. Hardly anybody owns a MD recorder/player and we would have to buy
one to listen to the inexpensive MWH MD that came out. I do not own one.

Sony had their chance to push MiniDisc 9 years ago when it first came out. I
was surprised that it never took off but Sony never advertised it. Then a
year or two ago they start to push it like they should have done way back
when they first brought it to the market.

The MP3 is one of the new formats that we are going to see in the future.
The idea format is an open audio format that can be saved onto different
kinds of media (Memory Cards, CDRs, Hard Drives, etc.)

The problem is when people listen to mp3 files and compare the quality they
listen to mp3s encoded at 128kps. 256kps is awesome and 320kps is overkill
for those that think that can hear a difference.

Soon we will be buying all our music online and just dumping it onto the
format of your choice.

I will get off this soapbox now. I am sure most people are sick of me taking
about the mp3 format.

-----Original Message-----

There is no doubt in my mind that MiniDisc is the best format for this kind
of
material if CDs are out of the question or will be out of the question
initially.
No expensive equipment or even a computer is required to record / copy them.
Blank MDs are very inexpensive - as are the players at long last as well.
They also sound incredibly good - and far better than MP3!!

I'm glad you put MD in 2nd place behind CDs.  MiniDiscs have never been
promoted
as CD substitutes but rather as cassette tape *replacements* and for that
purpose
they do a DAMN good job!

Myke



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From: Lord Hasenpfeffer <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) MDs & MP3s
Date: 01 Aug 2000 19:49:32 -0400 (EDT)


> Even though MiniDisc is a good format it is going to die as a consumer
> format. Hardly anybody owns a MD recorder/player and we would have to buy
> one to listen to the inexpensive MWH MD that came out. I do not own one.

Yeah.  At $179 each, portable MD recorders are prohibitively expensive too.
And the blank discs cost $2.15 apiece!

My $900 Linux box runs amazingly well but sounds like crap.

It is true that Sony never pushed MD as it should have, however, when it
was first available, the compression algorithms were grossly underdevloped
and audiophiles had a great big laugh at it.  That's ancient MD history now
though.

> Soon we will be buying all our music online and just dumping it onto the
> format of your choice.

Please let me know when the technology for recording an entire semester of
college lectures with MP3 is possible - along with easily trimming out all
the dead-air space later to best utilize my available storage space.

MiniDiscs - they're not just for music anymore!

Myke


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From: "Matt McCarthy" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Existing non mailing list covers.
Date: 03 Aug 2000 22:50:54 -0500


With the recent creation of covers by members of the list I have begun to
broaden my Men Without Hats collection with a covers area. My question for
the list is this:

What other bands are you aware of that did covers/demos of Men Without Hats
material?

I have heard 4 different Safety Dances just recently.

Luxt (previously mentioned Industrial)
Echoing Green
Dead Flower Children<?>
Frazer (recently on Ebay)

I know nothing about ANY of them other than the titles.

I also heard a lo--ng version of Pop Goes the World that I had never heard
before apparently done by Men Without Hats.

What others are you(s) aware of?

MMM
Men Without Hats fan-atic;
and Acrophobia 'holic.   [Hi MUp]







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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Alex <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Existing non mailing list covers.
Date: 04 Aug 2000 08:14:28 -0400 (EDT)


> I have heard 4 different Safety Dances just recently.
>
> Luxt (previously mentioned Industrial)
> Echoing Green
> Dead Flower Children<?>
> Frazer (recently on Ebay)
There's also one by Pain Station.

Luxt's cover is fairly good, female vocals, harder electronic sound.
Found on 'Newer Wave 2' (21st Circuitry).  Pain Station's is a grungier
version, rather entertaining.  Found on 'Nod's Tacklebox O' Fun'
(Re-Constriction).  The Echoing Green is a modern synthpop band (ala
Erasure -- for lack of any better knowledge about popular synthpop on
my part).  Very happy-bouncy song.  No idea what it's from though, I
heard it on the radio here.  The other two, _no_ idea whatsoever.

Ae.



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From: Lord Hasenpfeffer <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) RNC on MD
Date: 08 Aug 2000 21:09:32 -0400 (EDT)


I just copied the audio of Dick Cheney's and George W. Bush's RNC speeches
from VHS HiFi videotape to a single MiniDisc (in mono mode) this afternoon.
The total time used on the disc is slightly over 2 hours with about 1/2 hour
still blank.

Anybody know where I can download these in MP3 format from the web?
How much space on my hard drive would they consume?

Myke


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Christopher Gegax <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Re: RNC on MD
Date: 09 Aug 2000 16:13:26 -0500


I don't know where you can download Dick Cheney and George W. Bush's RNC
speeches but why on earth would you want to hear that two-faced,
self-righteous, militant, xenophobic, dictatorial rant again?

Lord Hasenpfeffer wrote:

> I just copied the audio of Dick Cheney's and George W. Bush's RNC speeches
> from VHS HiFi videotape to a single MiniDisc (in mono mode) this afternoon.
> The total time used on the disc is slightly over 2 hours with about 1/2 hour
> still blank.
>
> Anybody know where I can download these in MP3 format from the web?
> How much space on my hard drive would they consume?



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Lord Hasenpfeffer <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Re: RNC on MD
Date: 09 Aug 2000 18:05:52 -0400 (EDT)


> I don't know where you can download Dick Cheney and George W. Bush's RNC
> speeches but why on earth would you want to hear that two-faced,
> self-righteous, militant, xenophobic, dictatorial rant again?

'Cuz I'm a Man Without Hate!  :)

Myke


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (hats) RNC on MD
Date: 09 Aug 2000 18:15:46 EDT



In a message dated 8/9/00 2:10:19 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< I don't know where you can download Dick Cheney and George W. Bush's RNC
speeches but why on earth would you want to hear that two-faced,
self-righteous, militant, xenophobic, dictatorial rant again? >>

Yeah! It'll be much more fun downloading Al Gore's two-faced, self-righteous,
militant, xenophobic, dictatorial rant!


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "James L. Kramer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) RNC on MD
Date: 09 Aug 2000 20:16:23 -0400




Chris said

> << I don't know where you can download Dick Cheney and George W. Bush's RNC
> speeches but why on earth would you want to hear that two-faced,
> self-righteous, militant, xenophobic, dictatorial rant again? >>
>

Then JRT said

> Yeah! It'll be much more fun downloading Al Gore's two-faced, self-righteous,
> militant, xenophobic, dictatorial rant!

But can you believe a thing either one of them says??

Hey,  Ivan was born in Illinois, right?  So he could  be president!  (Just had to
make this Hats related.)

Myke, have you checked out the GOP web site?  They might have the speeches on
their site.

Did anyone catch the SNL rerun that had the annoying music teacher couple at the
Renaissance Fair?  The did a brief snippet of SD...

CUL8R!!

:-) Laura



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Lord Hasenpfeffer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) RNC on MD
Date: 09 Aug 2000 20:36:04 -0400 (EDT)


> Hey,  Ivan was born in Illinois, right?  So he could be president!

Yeah, but then we'd all have to quit believing him!  :)

Myke

P.S. I think you have to be a US resident for 14 years too, or something like that.


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Johan Hindstrom INF <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Re: RNC on MD
Date: 10 Aug 2000 15:21:01 +0300 (EET DST)



About this thing :

> > I just copied the audio of Dick Cheney's and George W. Bush's RNC speeches
> > from VHS HiFi videotape to a single MiniDisc (in mono mode) this afternoon.
> > The total time used on the disc is slightly over 2 hours with about 1/2 hour
> > still blank.
> >
> > Anybody know where I can download these in MP3 format from the web?
> > How much space on my hard drive would they consume?

If you've got the speeches on MD it's no problem to make
.wav -files of them yourself and then convert them to .mp3.
Question is why would you want to?
Does it have a nice groove and a beat you can dance to? :)

              - Johan



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From: "Richard Holdman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (hats) MDs & MP3s
Date: 10 Aug 2000 12:30:59 -0600


What I was trying to say is it would be expensive to go out and buy a $179
MD player/recorder just so I could listen to some Men without Hats bootlegs.

-Richard

-----Original Message-----

Yeah.  At $179 each, portable MD recorders are prohibitively expensive too.
And the blank discs cost $2.15 apiece!

My $900 Linux box runs amazingly well but sounds like crap.

It is true that Sony never pushed MD as it should have, however, when it
was first available, the compression algorithms were grossly underdevloped
and audiophiles had a great big laugh at it.  That's ancient MD history now
though.

> Soon we will be buying all our music online and just dumping it onto the
> format of your choice.

Please let me know when the technology for recording an entire semester of
college lectures with MP3 is possible - along with easily trimming out all
the dead-air space later to best utilize my available storage space.

MiniDiscs - they're not just for music anymore!

Myke



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kerry Gordon" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) PGTW CD Video
Date: 10 Aug 2000 17:42:11 -0400


Saw the PGTW CD Video on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D406232947




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Walker, Keith (Imprimis)" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) PGTW CDV
Date: 10 Aug 2000 18:11:10 -0400


>Saw the PGTW CD Video on ebay:

>http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=406232947


Boy -- a reserve auction stating at $30.  Just what are these old discs
going for, nowadays, and why didn't I buy more of them?

Keith Walker



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Lord Hasenpfeffer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) MDs & MP3s
Date: 10 Aug 2000 18:26:51 -0400 (EDT)


> What I was trying to say is it would be expensive to go out and buy a $179
> MD player/recorder just so I could listen to some Men without Hats bootlegs.

Oh, well, yeah, if that's all you wanted to do with it then buying one would
obviously not be cost effective, however, if you *did* buy one, you'd be
opening yourself up to a whole new world of possibilities and capabilities
you currently don't have *in addition to* being able to hear MWH bootlegs! :)

I'm attending a funeral Monday and it has been requested of me to bring my
portable MiniDisc recorder and stereo mic with me to document the goings-on
at the ceremony while I'm there.  There is simply no better way to do something
like that than with a portable MD recorder like the one I have.

MP3s might be great for internet-based distribution of tunes but for people
to not buy into MiniDisc technology because they think it will fade away like
an 8-track in the path of a compact disc is a sad thought to ponder because
so much more can be done with MiniDiscs than with MP3s.

MiniDiscs are meant to be a digital disc replacement for the cassette tape.
If the success of MP3s on the web make me have to revert back to using
audiocassettes because people are generaly ignorant with regard to the facts
about the formats then I'm going to be *very angry*!  I'm still not over the
fact that I am still forced to use sucky VHS tapes instead of Beta - and
for what?  Because people wanted 6-hours of crappy quality recording time
and Beta only offered 4!!  Nevermind that Beta was clearly the superior -
and smaller! - format!  This kind of stuff just irks me to no end!!

People need to get hip to the fact that MiniDiscs are the greatest portable
and home recording friends they've got!  Spread the word!  Buy into it and
it won't go away!

Besides, I received a notice in my email box last week that at last the
technology is finally available to *digitally* copy MP3s to MiniDiscs through
the USB port on your computer.  Before you could only do analog transfers
through your sound card, so quality of results varied.

Meanwhile, for those of us who are already clued in to what's so wonderful
about MiniDiscs and already have the portables and home decks to play them,
it would be a shame to ignore the MD format as a viable means of MWH bootleg
distribution.  No high priced equipment and/or costly outside services are
required to make digital CD-to-MD copies.  The sound is clearly better than
what MP3 can offer.

Myke


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: goreal <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Sideways vid on menwithouthats.com
Date: 12 Aug 2000 21:35:08 -0700 (PDT)


56K Realaudio clip..

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail û Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) MP3's
Date: 13 Aug 2000 12:26:41 EDT


A non-hats related question but relevant to recent discussions

I am just getting with the MP3 thing and downloading from napster .... my
question is this ... Can I copy the MP3 files to a 3 1/2 inch disk, take that
disk to a friends house who has a CD-R, and make my own CD's?  This may be a
stupid question, but I really don't have a clue about these things.  I guess
I am lagging behind on today's technology.

Thanks
[e-mail]

P.S. Is Richard Holdman still on this list?


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: mike <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) MP3's
Date: 13 Aug 2000 23:00:27 +0000


>I am just getting with the MP3 thing and downloading from napster .... my
>question is this ... Can I copy the MP3 files to a 3 1/2 inch disk, take
>that
>disk to a friends house who has a CD-R, and make my own CD's?  This may be a
>stupid question,
well, if you can convert the MP3 back to 'normal' uncompressed CD format
then yeah, though as the music has been compressed it wont sound as good
as a normal CD copy - basically MP3 throws away the audio spectrum you
cant hear and once its gone you cant get it back, unlike data compression
which retains all data...

not as daft a question as i have had...!!!

}:-)



http://www.globald.demon.co.uk
http://www.citrusgrove.com

http://www.alaskahighway.co.uk
http://www.mishikawa.co.uk




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Steve Jackson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Re: MP3's (OT)
Date: 14 Aug 2000 07:49:07 -0400


---- [e-mail] wrote:
[...]
> Can I copy the MP3 files to a 3 1/2 inch disk, take that
> disk to a friends house who has a CD-R, and make my own CD's?

Of course, the real question is whether one MP3 file will fit on a single
3.5" floppy.  MP3's usually fit about one minute's worth of music into
1MB of disk space, so on average a song will consume about 3.5 to 4.5
MB of disk space.  The maximum capacity of a 3.5" disk is 1.44MB (in
the IBM PC format), so you'd have to use some software to break your
one MP3 file into multiple, smaller files.  You could probably use one
of the ZIP programs to split your MP3 file to multiple disks: just create
a new archive and check the "Span Multiple Disks" box, or whatever your
ZIP program calls it.

Or if you have a ZIP Drive, you won't have this problem!

> P.S. Is Richard Holdman still on this list?

I believe he is... Richard?  Stand up and be counted!  :-)

Hope this helps,

Steve
--
       mailto:[e-mail]
voicemail/fax:[phone] x1548


__________________________________________________
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Richard Holdman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (hats) MP3's
Date: 15 Aug 2000 13:48:57 -0600


Yes I am here! :)

Trying to transfer mp3 files via 3 1/2 disks is like trying to chop down a
tree with a baseball bat. You can do it but its going to take a lot of work
and time.

Your best bet is to just buy your own CDR recorder. They are cheap compared
to what they use to be.

-Richard Holdman

-----Original Message-----


A non-hats related question but relevant to recent discussions

I am just getting with the MP3 thing and downloading from napster .... my
question is this ... Can I copy the MP3 files to a 3 1/2 inch disk, take
that
disk to a friends house who has a CD-R, and make my own CD's?  This may be a
stupid question, but I really don't have a clue about these things.  I guess
I am lagging behind on today's technology.

Thanks
[e-mail]

P.S. Is Richard Holdman still on this list?



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Dave Mattingly" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) MWH Crossword Puzzle
Date: 16 Aug 2000 21:21:58 -0400


In today's (Wednesday's) Yahoo crossword puzzle "Flip Side", there is a clue
for a 1983 Men Without Hats song about moshing, but the answer isn't Safety
Dance. Go fill out the puzzle, or scroll way down for the spoiler.

.

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.

.

.

.

The answer is Danger Dance. The puzzle's theme, Flip Side, is all about
using the opposite of the normal song title. They also have Sit By You Man
and other reversed songs.

Dave Mattingly
[e-mail]







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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: mw <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) rational youth
Date: 18 Aug 2000 20:55:48 -0700 (PDT)


don't know if anybody is interested but i have an extra sealed copy of
rational youth's
Feb 1996 CD ALL OUR SATURDAYS (1981-1986)
for sale. anyone interested please e-mail me a bid

   1.Saturdays in Silesia 4.05 [previously unreleased 1985 remix]
   2.No More and No Less 4.05
   3.Heredity 4.16
   4.Close to Nature 4.15 [previously unreleased 1985 remix]
   5.I've Got a Sister in the Navy 6.55 [unreleased extended       version]
   6.Holiday in Bangkok 5.14 [LP version]
   7.May Day 1984 3.29 [previously unreleased demo from 1984]
   8.In Your Eyes 3.10 [LP version]
   9.Call Me 2.58
  10.Beat the Bad Times Down 3.25 [from the film Crazy Moon]
  11.Speak to Me in Dreams 4.18 [from the film Crazy Moon]
  12.Freeze 4.58
  13.Latin Lovers 2.49 [fade-out; original version is 4.03]
  14.Hot Streets 2.53
  15.Pile ou face 2.36
  16.City of Night (Extended) 7.10
  17.Saturdays in Silesia (Extended) 7.16 (EMI Music Canada,
  E2-72438-37358-2-2)





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: goreal <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) hey hey T-Shirt news..
Date: 20 Aug 2000 22:25:45 -0700 (PDT)


at http://www.menwithouthats.com

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Steve Jackson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Cover Project
Date: 21 Aug 2000 07:24:12 -0400


Hey!  I haven't heard anything recently about the cover CD -- what's
the scoop?

The more I've thought about it, the more I want to contribute.  I want
to cover "Bright Side of the Sun," but I need someone to provide the
piano part for me.

If anybody wants to collaborate, please let me know -- e-mail me at [e-mail].

Thanks in advance!

Steve
--
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voicemail/fax:[phone] x1548


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tony Reed <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Cover Project
Date: 21 Aug 2000 08:27:47 -0700




Steve Jackson wrote:

> Hey!  I haven't heard anything recently about the cover CD -- what's
> the scoop?
>

The contributions to the album should be finished up in the next few weeks. Some of the artists
have subscribed to the digest instead of the list so response time is sometimes slow. Were only a
few songs away from having a complete album so it shouldn't be long before I begin the daunting
task of negotiating with people for its release.

>
> The more I've thought about it, the more I want to contribute.  I want
> to cover "Bright Side of the Sun," but I need someone to provide the
> piano part for me.

That would be great. We don't have any songs from PGTW on this comp. I was considering doing PGTW
or "Moonbeam" just so we'd have something. I elected not to because I already have two versions
of the Safety Dance going on it.

I hope you can find a collaborator. Let me know if you do.

Tony
--



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Richard Holdman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (hats) Cover Project
Date: 21 Aug 2000 12:52:19 -0600


Tony - That would be cool if you did a version of moonbeam! I really like
your style! I know it is a ton of work to so but if you are bored go right
ahead and do it! :)

-Richard Holdman


-----Original Message-----

That would be great. We don't have any songs from PGTW on this comp. I was
considering doing PGTW
or "Moonbeam" just so we'd have something. I elected not to because I
already have two versions
of the Safety Dance going on it.

I hope you can find a collaborator. Let me know if you do.

Tony
--




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Walker, Keith (Imprimis)" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) PGTW covers
Date: 21 Aug 2000 15:46:18 -0400




Tony - That would be cool if you did a version of moonbeam! I really like
your style! I know it is a ton of work to so but if you are bored go right
ahead and do it! :)

I must second Richard's emotion, here.  If you want to, Tony, go for it!
And if you don't, somebody, please go for it!  A cover album without a PGTW
tune would be like a spring morning without sunshine!  A baby's fist without
a rattle! A martini without an olive!  If I had a modicum of musical talent,
I would volunteer, but, alas, I don't.  Unless, of course, everyone is
interested in the tuneless, acapella re-mix of "Walk on Water".  :)
Keith Walker
EDS - SIP Administration
H3-2C-84
5400 Legacy
Plano, TX 75024

* phone: [phone]
* [e-mail]
www.eds.com




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Matt McCarthy" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Thirded
Date: 21 Aug 2000 18:24:54 -0500


I third the motion.


PGTW is my fave of all. (CDs, not necessarily the title song)



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