ftp.xmission.com/2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar/ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/hats/archive/hats.200002

Internet Message Format | 2000-02-29 | 98KB

From: "Richard Holdman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) MWH items for sale on ebay - 80s Music Videos
Date: 01 Feb 2000 10:55:46 -0700


Some of you may be interested in some MWH items that are being sold on e-bay
(you may be the one selling it :)

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=248246357
MEN WITHOUT HATS Rhythm of Youth CD

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=248250716
MEN WITHOUT HATS Folk of the 80's CD

It really seems this e-mail list has died.

After Stefan got mad about all the bootlegs and pulled the plug to all the
fans, is when I started loosing a lot of interest in MWH and others may have
felt the same. Sure I still like MWH but I just don't have the drive that I
use to have for them. I still like their music and I really like IVANs new
stuff and will continue to buy Ivan's new music. I will no longer be a MWH
collector but I will still be a Fan of the MUSIC. Maybe I might even buy the
new CD that comes out from Stefan :) (if it ever does)

I have started a music archive for my favorite band, Book of Love. I am now
trying to collect everything I can find that is Book of Love related. So far
I have collected every single CD that exists for them and almost all of
their vinyl (still looking for a few 12inch singles). You can visit my web
page at www.holdman.com/bookoflove

Currently on M2 they are playing every single video in their vaults (which
will take about 4 months) and they are playing tons of good stuff. They will
play a few MWH videos (I am sure they will play Pop goes the world and
Safety Dance) and I plan on recording these when they come on (I will not be
able to put them on my web site because stefan will not allow it). I am also
recording all the videos that most likely you will never see played again. I
don't believe in keeping all this great stuff to myself and I want to share
it with all of you. You can visit my video web page at
www.softcom.net/users/holdman. I am recording all these videos to VCD mpeg-1
standard (which is around 35megs per video). I can only put so many videos
on the web so I have included a list of all the videos I have recorded. If
there is one that you want me to put up just let me know and I will upload
it to the server.

Thanks for your friendship! All of you are very nice people.

-Richard



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Sterling <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Hats list survey
Date: 02 Feb 2000 20:39:36 +1000


I've read several messages lately that have suggested that the list
isn't what it once was.
I agree, for a number of reasons (some of those I'm pleased about)...

I'm curious to see how many of you out there are taking an active
interest in the list. So, would you be so kind, whom ever you are, to
reply to this message. I'll take responses for one week and post the
results afterwards.

Thanks all,


Sterling



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Stephen D. Sundstrom" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Re:  Hats List Survey
Date: 04 Feb 2000 03:06:18 -0700


Sterling,

I haven't seen anyone reply to your posting on the Men Without Hats fan list
(which could well be an answer to your question in itself), but I will go on
record as to saying that I enjoy reading the news / comments that I see on
the MWH fan list.  It just happens to be that there isn't a whole lot to
talk about on a regular basis.  I'm sure that when Ivan and Stefan release
their new compilation album, that there will be a lot of talk about it.  The
fact of the matter is that there just isn't a whole lot to talk about at all
times.  In addition, I'm sure that most of the people on this list are very
busy with their everyday activities also.

Anyways,  I just thought I'd throw in my "2 cents".

On a different matter,  I am happy to hear that Richard Holdman has started
web site for "Book of Love".  I'll be sure to check it out...

Talk To Ya Later,

Steve




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: goreal <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) [still here] can anyone fix concert recording?
Date: 04 Feb 2000 07:56:28 -0800 (PST)


Hey to all..

I have a cassette recording taken from the Atlanta 1988 show, certainly
not a soundboard recording but the only one I've ever come across from
the PGTW tour.

However, the recording speed is off and slides slower (or is it faster,
can't remember) throughout the tape.  Is anyone out there able to fix
this kind of thing?

Best,

Jim
__________________________________________________
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Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kerry Gordon" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Moonbeam 7"
Date: 04 Feb 2000 18:41:29 -0500


For sale:

Moonbeam 7" with picture sleeve
B-Side: Jenny Wore Black

Excellent condition. $5 o.b.o.

Kerry
[e-mail]=20



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Richard Holdman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) m2 played I Like
Date: 07 Feb 2000 16:36:38 -0700


Guess what Video they played on m2 yesterday?

They played I Like. Pretty fun video of IVAN moving his arms to form the I
and L in I LIKE (sort of like the village people with YMCA, but not as
annoying) - I am sure many of you have seen it.

Anyway the quality was really good so I snagged it and made a VCD quality
MPG file of it. It is on my FDS account right now and you can access it at
http://www.softcom.net/users/holdman/

NOTE: Do not download this video unless you name is Bill Clinton and you own
your personal copy of I Like by Men Without Hats. If you download this Video
without having your own copy of the "I Like" video you are breaking the law
and the FBI will come after you and hold you still while Stefan Breaks your
legs with a baseball bat :)

-Richard (Still a MWH fan)



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Steve Jackson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (hats) m2 played I Like
Date: 07 Feb 2000 18:48:25 -0500


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard Holdman

> Guess what Video they played on m2 yesterday?
>
> They played I Like.

Cool!  I've never seen it!

[...]
> NOTE: Do not download this video unless you name is Bill
> Clinton and you own
          ^^^
> your personal copy of I Like by Men Without Hats.

I think I found a flaw in your logic (I'm a software engineer, so I
deal a LOT with logic.)

Shouldn't that be an "OR" instead of an "AND"?  Think about it...  ;-)

[...]
> -Richard (Still a MWH fan)

I'm glad to hear you're still a fan!  MWH haven't gotten much air-time
on my stereo lately (except for "Sideways" a few days ago), but I'm
still a fan, too!

Steve
--
mailto:[e-mail]
  http://www.synchrologic.com



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Richard Holdman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (hats) m2 played I Like
Date: 07 Feb 2000 16:53:42 -0700


Nope that is suppose to be an AND - So if your Name is not Bill Clinton then
you can not download it no matter what. Even if you own the video! :)

So pretty much only Bill Clinton can download it, but only if he already
owns a copy of the video. He may, I know he is a big MWH fan :)

-Richard

> NOTE: Do not download this video unless you name is Bill
> Clinton and you own
          ^^^
> your personal copy of I Like by Men Without Hats.

I think I found a flaw in your logic (I'm a software engineer, so I
deal a LOT with logic.)

Shouldn't that be an "OR" instead of an "AND"?  Think about it...  ;-)




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Richard Holdman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) I Like Video
Date: 07 Feb 2000 19:39:47 -0700


the First Lady just told me Bill Clinton could not download the I Like Video
because of a bad link. I have re-uploaded it so it should work now.
http://www.softcom.net/users/holdman/

If the above links still does not work then go to www.holdman.com/mwh for
another link

Thanks

-Richard



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Tom Norman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) m2 played I Like
Date: 07 Feb 2000 19:24:00 -0500


> Guess what Video they played on m2 yesterday?
>
> They played I Like. Pretty fun video of IVAN moving his arms to form the I
> and L in I LIKE (sort of like the village people with YMCA, but not as
> annoying) - I am sure many of you have seen it.


That is my favorite HATS video!!!  Thanks Richard!  You are the man!


Tom



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (hats) I Like Video
Date: 08 Feb 2000 03:15:31 EST


Richard:

Thanks for getting that video up!  Now if you just tell me that you have The
Bolshoi from M2's a-z I will be your friend for life!

Greg

In a message dated 2/7/00 6:41:07 PM Pacific Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< the First Lady just told me Bill Clinton could not download the I Like
Video
 because of a bad link. I have re-uploaded it so it should work now.
 http://www.softcom.net/users/holdman/

 If the above links still does not work then go to www.holdman.com/mwh for
 another link
  >>


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Sterling <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Hats list survey results
Date: 08 Feb 2000 21:50:18 +1000



Hi all,

Firstly, thanks to all who replied.

During the week Feb. 2nd to 8th, there were 21 replies to my request.

Either that means that their are only 22 of us left on earth, or that
the rest of us haven't checked their email recently (or didn't
bother to reply). I think I'd prefer to go with the latter... ;-)

It was interesting to read your responses - so many of you commented on
the path the list took after Stefan cracked down on
the bootlegging. It's a pity, of course, but I sympathize with him. It's
also a pity that he hasn't put his own bootleg compilation
together (he must have collected enough material by now) in an attempt
to flog it to us. He'd have my money in a second...

What to do now? I don't know.

Someone once suggested a compilation/cover album project. I have the
facilities to put this together (and I now know of quite a
few of you who do to...) and I can see this as a possible, albeit
distant reality (dream, perhaps). It goes without saying that we
would have a moral (not to mention, legal) obligation to do it all
'above board'.

Whatever happens next, it seems that we're all of the same mind. It's
obvious we've all been touched, affected, moved,
inspired, whatever by the band, and after swapping thoughts with you, I
feel a little less like a one-man fan club.

Thanks again everyone. Keep in touch.

Cheers,

Sterling



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Johan Hindstr|m INF <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Coveralbum!
Date: 08 Feb 2000 23:19:31 +0200 (EET)



Coveralbum?!
Count me in!
Just tell me where to send the soundfiles and in
which format!!!

          - J.H.



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Francis Joannette" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Ivan -- Remixes
Date: 09 Feb 2000 09:37:47 -0500


Hey gang!

I just want to let you know that I put to very good remix on auction on
E-bay.  One is OPEN YOUR EYES and the other one is SUPER BAD GIRLS.


The songs are very different from the album.  Specially SUPERBADGIRLS!  the
5 remixes are completely different!  here is the adresses:

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D3D255570222


http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D3D255570710


I'm moving at the end of the month, so I'll be out of the list for a
while.....

Ciao!


Francis



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Daniele Rossi" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Hats list survey results
Date: 10 Feb 2000 22:21:29 -0500


Well it kinda got quiet again.  What is it with mailing lists?  One day they
are noisy then the next 17 months silent.  Oh well, it's part of the
evolution I guess.  I checked out thestuff Francis put up for sale at ebay
but I got the message (so to speak) saying the items didn't exist.  I guess
it was the hackers? ;)  Where did these remixes come from?  I'm surprised no
one has already asked this.  Or is this a joke and I didn't get it? :)


> the bootlegging. It's a pity, of course, but I sympathize with him. It's
> also a pity that he hasn't put his own bootleg compilation
> together (he must have collected enough material by now) in an attempt

I doubt the list went silent becuase of that.  I remember it being silent
before it happened.  But in any case, I too would love to hear more demos
and stuff.  Which reminds me, I haven't checked out his site in a while.  I
wonder if there's new stuff?


> Someone once suggested a compilation/cover album project. I have the
> facilities to put this together (and I now know of quite a
> few of you who do to...) and I can see this as a possible, albeit

Well, a lot of fan-made compilations were made.  But, we have a great
opportunity here becuase we ahve the band members on this list to ask!

I was watching the video made of some list members meeting Ivan in Montreal.
How long ago was that?  Oh, please don't tell me.  I...I am too young
to...to feel as old as I can be.... :D



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Steve Jackson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) New MWH Song
Date: 11 Feb 2000 12:00:34 -0500


As an exercise to the reader, I propose that we write a new MWH song.

Anybody want to write the first line?

   "Pop goes the rhythm of the sideways folks"

Uh -- what rhymes with "folks", other than "yolks"?

I never claimed to be a poet or a lyricist!

Steve Jackson



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Dave Mattingly" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) New MWH Song
Date: 11 Feb 2000 10:43:44 PST


>"Pop goes the rhythm of the sideways folks"

"I got the message on the freeways in my Jetta Volks."


Dave Mattingly
[e-mail]







______________________________________________________
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (hats) New MWH Song
Date: 11 Feb 2000 16:28:44 EST


"Pop goes the rhythm of the sideways folks"

 "I got the message on the freeways in my Jetta Volks."

"Saying Everybody feels better, and love is something I adore"



--collin from savannah


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (hats) Hats list survey
Date: 11 Feb 2000 17:41:53 EST


Hey all.

I've been away for a while so I didn't get this message in time. I am,
however, actively interested and I love Hats. So... On to the next topic!

--Nick P.

PS. Myke C, I'm online again finally so please write me so I can make
corrections!


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Matt McCarthy" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Shirts
Date: 11 Feb 2000 18:06:03 -0600


Ebay has a MWH shirt supposedly from 1988 currently listed.  Item #
258704298.

Not to break up the song, but I have read accounts (great ones) of list
members who have made MWH shirts that looked quite great! Any available?
Perhaps a MWH list member UNofficial shirt could be created?

On that subject....  Has anyone heard via a different grapevine anything on
the new compilation and MWH shirts from the official MWH site?          [How
many bandmembers remain on this list? ]

MMM
New to the list; but always laughing at all the silly things I have said and
done.



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Sterling <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) New MWH Song
Date: 12 Feb 2000 19:10:26 +1000



"Pop goes the rhythm of the sideways folks"

 "I got the message on the freeways in my Jetta Volks."

"Saying Everybody feels better, and love is something I adore"

"Please don't forget, that we have ideas for walls"



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Kevin Lentz <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Shirts and cover album
Date: 12 Feb 2000 21:25:23 -0600


I would definitely like to get ahold of a Men Without Hats shirt - if
anyone puts one together, please contact me!

My band is going to record a few more songs this summer, and I think I
could talk them into doing "Security" - someone let me know for sure if
we're going to do this cover album thing, because I hate to pay for the
studio time if we're not going to have a use for the song.

Talk to you hatless girls and guys later!
--=20
Kevin Lentz (ICQ 10812890)

3=BE-inch Action Figure Archives:
http://www.toymania.com/334archives


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) from a very happy man
Date: 14 Feb 2000 15:25:37 -0300




Hi hatters,

Just let you know I got the rarest of the rare : the original _ROY_ 15-trk CD
....and Folk 80 Part III  CD from Ebay. Sorry, I had to tell this to somebody .
I am very excited.

Anyway.

About the Ivan LPs auctioned that somebody in the list claimed the URL were a
joke. Indeed the URLs were mistyped, but the auction were real and still open
(both). The URL are:

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=255570222

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/EBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=255570710


I hope I made no mistype.

Regards,
Roberto







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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Sterling <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Shirts and cover album
Date: 15 Feb 2000 18:07:48 +1000




Kevin Lentz wrote:

> My band is going to record a few more songs this summer, and I think I
> could talk them into doing "Security" - someone let me know for sure if
> we're going to do this cover album thing, because I hate to pay for the
> studio time if we're not going to have a use for the song.

Well I'd still like to do it, but since I mentioned it again I've only had two
responses. We'll see...

By the way everyone, I've got dibs on Eurotheme :-)


Sterling



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Johan Hindstrom INF <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Shirts and cover album
Date: 16 Feb 2000 02:43:11 +0200 (EET)


On Tue, 15 Feb 2000, Sterling wrote:

>
> Well I'd still like to do it, but since I mentioned it again I've only had two
> responses. We'll see...
>
> By the way everyone, I've got dibs on Eurotheme :-)
>

I've allready recorded "I'm in love" so that's about it for that one...
Just tell me where to send it.
I've also recorded "Unsatisfaction"...
Just tell me where to send them!

>
> Sterling
>

       - J.H.


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Kevin Lentz <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Shirts and cover album
Date: 15 Feb 2000 21:48:40 -0600


Well, that's four songs. How about a cover EP?! It'd be better to have
more songs, but hell, let's do it with what we have. I think I have my
guitarist talked into Security. We'll work on it and plan on recording
it this summer, regardless. Is anyone willing/able to do some kind of
cover art for these CDs?
--=20
Kevin Lentz (ICQ 10812890)

3=BE-inch Action Figure Archives:
http://www.toymania.com/334archives


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Dave Mattingly" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Shirts and cover album
Date: 16 Feb 2000 05:15:42 -0500


>Is anyone willing/able to do some kind of cover art for these CDs?

I could do that.

Dave Mattingly
[e-mail]








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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Richard Holdman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Men without Hats - Master Test Pressings
Date: 16 Feb 2000 13:16:08 -0700


Hello Boy and Girls

I am selling my rarest MWH item on e-bay.
You can check it out by clicking on the link below.

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=262511305

I think somebody needs to make a parody called "Safety Pants" - Now that
would be cool! :)

-Richard Holdman



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Sterling <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Cover Songs
Date: 17 Feb 2000 11:06:10 +1000


Hi all,

In regard to this cover project we keep talking about:

I'm happy to do the mastering.
I'm happy to organize the pressings.
I'm happy to do the artwork.

Questions:

Are we going to get real pressings or are we just going to burn our own?

If we get real pressings, are we all going to put in for the cost?
I'm assuming we'll then sell 'em to the other list members and the
public? - I've got some great industry connections here...

Note: From my side of the globe, I can get 500 pressed for around $2000
(Aus) including full-colour art on the CD and a
four-page booklet (for maybe a bio on each artist). This does not
include the royalty fee we must pay the Hats in advance,
which incidentally is calculated by how many we produce, and not on how
many we actually sell.

I've yet to mention this idea to Stefan, but "hey if you're out there,
perhaps you'll consider signing the album up with your label,
BMP?"

If anyone just has to send something now (although I think it's probably
slightly premature) the address is:

Symmetry Entertainment
10 Whalley Street
Bargara
Queensland 4670
Australia

If you send something on audio CD that's OK. If you want me to clean it
up a bit, try to send it in .AIFF format, with separate
tracks and preferably as a Cubase VST song.

We'll see if we can't get something happening...


Cheers for now,


Sterling



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Kevin Lentz <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Cover Songs
Date: 16 Feb 2000 21:19:47 -0600


Sterling,

That sounds awesome! I guess if we are thinking about putting up that
much dough we should try to get more than 3 contributors, huh? I'm
definitely psyched about this project - LMK if there's anything I can do
to help...
--=20
Kevin Lentz (ICQ 10812890)

3=BE-inch Action Figure Archives:
http://www.toymania.com/334archives


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Stephen D. Sundstrom" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) hats covers
Date: 17 Feb 2000 01:35:16 -0700


Hello All,

When the Hats list started talking about doing a cover album (way, way, way
back), I originally volunteered as well.  Then, while trying to do an
acoustic version of "Folk of the 80's" on my 4-track recorder, I realized
that I just suck as a musician (reality bites).  But, I'm still think that
the project would be very exciting and fun to do.  I'd definately buy a
copy.

One thing though.  Stefan apparently still holds copyrights to all MWH
material.   With what little I know about copyright laws, if an artist wants
to do a cover of another artist's material, than permission must be
acquired.  It's not enough to just do the project, and then send the band
royalties.   Permission must be given by the copyright holder before any
recording could be sold to the public.  (I'm sure we all remember the
problem Richard Holdman ran into with the bootleg recordings, and I don't
want a repeat situation.  I'm still a big MWH fan after all)

I just wanted to make sure that this issue was brought out.  Playing the
devils advocate so to say. :)

By the way, speaking of Richard Holdman, it's great to see a Book Of Love
page up and running.  Great job Richard.

TTYL,

Steve




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Alex <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) hats covers
Date: 17 Feb 2000 08:22:10 -0500 (EST)


> With what little I know about copyright laws, if an artist wants to do
> a cover of another artist's material, than permission must be
> acquired.
Actually, covers are dealt with separately.  (Warning: the order might
be off)  You need to:
* Record the cover
* Release the cover
* Contact a specific set of lawyers _informing_ them of it (I can't
  remember who, but there's apparently an agency that deals with just
  this, and only this)
* Pay the certain amount of royalties (9 cents per song per copy sold
  if I remember it correctly, which I may not)

You do _not_ need the permission of the original song writer to do a
cover.

Ae.



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dave <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) hats covers
Date: 17 Feb 2000 08:48:57 -0500


Re Covers,
You need to
a) Record the version without changing the lyrics (if you do then you do need
to get the songwriters permission)

b) Contact the Harry Fox agency and fill out a form

C) They bill you (7. something cents per copy sold).

I think that the songwriter can deny permission. I don't know how it works,
but I remember Frank Sinatra tried to block Sid Viscous from recording My
Way....
-Dave @ Lexiconmagazine.com



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Alan Pendleton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) hats covers
Date: 17 Feb 2000 06:07:19 PST


).
>
>I think that the songwriter can deny permission. I don't know how it works,
>but I remember Frank Sinatra tried to block Sid Viscous from recording My
>Way....
>-Dave @ Lexiconmagazine.com
>
>
Frank Sinatra didn't write My Way. Paul Anka I think wrote the english
lyrics (David Bowie wrote a different set which where never used). Don't
know who wrote the tune, A French man I think. Anyway he had no right to
block it.

Sid Viscous, nice name !


Alan
______________________________________________________
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Anders Wahlbom <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) hats covers
Date: 17 Feb 2000 15:24:22 +0100 (MET)


On Thu, 17 Feb 2000, Alan Pendleton wrote:

> Frank Sinatra didn't write My Way. Paul Anka I think wrote the english=20
> lyrics (David Bowie wrote a different set which where never used). Don't=
=20
> know who wrote the tune, A French man I think. Anyway he had no right to=
=20
> block it.

I think it was one Claude Fran=E7ois. At least that's what it says on this
page with the original French lyrics of "Comme D'Habitude":

http://www.mil.lu.se/Carlo/lyrics/dhabitud.html


-
Anders Wahlbom <[e-mail]> | http://www.update.uu.se/~awahlbom/
(Finger for geek code)                 | http://www.cutoff.se/dss
-
NOW PLAYING: Momus: _The Ultraconformist_



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Daniele Rossi" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) we can suck if we want to :)
Date: 17 Feb 2000 22:51:46 -0500



> acoustic version of "Folk of the 80's" on my 4-track recorder, I realized
> that I just suck as a musician (reality bites).  But, I'm still think that

Actually....I was on another mailing list for another 80s band where the
fans made a cover tape.  Each participant made a song for the tape.  Most of
the them were certainly NOT musicians nor singers!  But it still sounded
great.



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Sterling <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Cover Songs Update
Date: 18 Feb 2000 14:11:23 +1000


Hi all,

I have been in touch with CMRRA (Canadian Musical Reproduction Rights
Agency Ltd.), which are our Canadian link with production rights to the
Hats music. I expect it will cost us approx. 7 cents per track per CD in
advance in royalties, but I'm waiting confirmation of this figure.

In regard to owner permission:

In most cases the owners have a deal with the publishing organization,
that allows anyone to copy the material. The "Sinatra" stories do
happen, but are by far, the exception to the rule - most artists would
grab at the opportunity to make some extra bucks so don't worry about
it. If Stefan has any special requests I'm sure he'll let us know... :-)

Keep you posted...


Sterling



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Adam J Weitzman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) hats covers
Date: 18 Feb 2000 10:48:20 -0500


This is amazing: I've had this same subject come up on two different
mailing lists in the last two months!

I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice.

In the US you do not need permission to cover a song.  You do need to
either (a) negotiate a license with the copyright owner (in which case,
yes, you'll need their permission), or (b) acquire a "compulsory
mechanical license" from an agency like Harry Fox (for which you do not
need permission).  You might want to negotiate with the publisher if you
want to pay a cheaper rate than the statuatory one that you pay with a
compulsory license, but the statuatory rate is pretty cheap: 7.55 cents
per use for compositions 5 minutes long or less.  So, if you got a
compulsory license, recorded a cover, and made 1000 copies of a CD with
that song on it, you would owe $75.50 to the issuer of the license.

However, it is absolutely imperative that you notify the copyright owner
of your intentions *before* you obtain the license (or within 30 days),
and obtain the license *before* you release the cover, among other
things.  There are *very* strict rules about this, and these are not all
of them, so I would suggest calling an actual lawyer or researching this
further before going ahead with it.

I read about this on three different web pages (I don't know whether any
of them are lawyers or not):
http://www.thefirm.com/articles/mechroyl.html
http://www.aracnet.com/~schornj/index.shtml
http://www.musicuniverse.com/garage/finebusiness/fineprint12.html

They have forms for obtaining licenses here:
http://www.nmpa.org/hfa/mechanical.html

You can see all of the songs Ivan has registered at the BMI web site
(there are a few interesting titles on the list that sound familiar, but
don't sound the same :-):
http://bmi.com/repertoire/writer.asp?WriterID=93734&WriterName=DOROSCHUK+IVAN

--
Adam J Weitzman, NewsEdge Corp. (soon RoweCom Inc.)
http://www.newsedge.com - http://www.individual.com
"Humor is the best way of dealing with complete and
 utter nonsense." - John Lydon




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Johan Hindstrom INF <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Keep it up!
Date: 19 Feb 2000 00:19:33 +0200 (EET)



I'm so happy that some of you actually are in the position to
and/or have the energy to research all these copyright matters.
These kind of projects usually fizzle at this stage.
By keeping this up there WILL BE A RECORD!
Keep the faith and above all... make music!

              - J.H.



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Matt McCarthy" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Struck me as an interesting question
Date: 18 Feb 2000 23:18:44 -0600


I was asked today, from my quest for the fore-mentioned Men Without Hats
shirt, whether there was ever a Men W/O Hats hat?

That seems sacrilegious  to even ask but ; was there ever one?     I can't
imagine a baseball type hat being made with the words "Men Without Hats" on
it but who knows.......stranger things have occurred.  Also as a new member
I am curious as to the oddest MWH items/ collectibles that exist. What have
you got?    I saw Richards cool 1 sided records. Neat!

Sorry if this is a silly question, but I don't sing, I am not a musician,
nor a lawyer.And I am not Harry Fox.

But I like seeing the list brewing.

MMM


All I have (not terribly unusual) are some flats from Pop Goes the World
But I am looking.



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Kevin Lentz <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Another band for the cover album
Date: 18 Feb 2000 23:30:33 -0600


Hey,

My friend Tim plays in a punk band called The Blacklisted (they've
opened for Marky Ramone & the Intruders), and they would like to do
Safety Dance for the cover album. Seems like a cool idea to me... what
do y'all think?
--=20
Kevin Lentz (ICQ 10812890)

3=BE-inch Action Figure Archives:
http://www.toymania.com/334archives


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: mike <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Struck me as an interesting question
Date: 19 Feb 2000 13:38:09 -0000


>I was asked today, from my quest for the fore-mentioned Men Without Hats
>shirt, whether there was ever a Men W/O Hats hat?
dunno about the hat though i do have 4 t-shirts hangin in my cupboard - i
knew that one would wear out for i bought bulk!!!  the yellow ones the
fav, though the white ones always gets a reaction!



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: mike <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Another band for the cover album
Date: 19 Feb 2000 13:38:08 -0000


>My friend Tim plays in a punk band called The Blacklisted (they've
>opened for Marky Ramone & the Intruders), and they would like to do
>Safety Dance for the cover album. Seems like a cool idea to me... what
>do y'all think?
great idea - the more the merrier.  i think we all need someone we can
tell which track we're doing so we dont have an album full of 'safety
dance'...  I'll work out which track i wanna do this arvo...



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Sterling <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Struck me as an interesting question
Date: 19 Feb 2000 18:26:47 +1000


Gee, let me think (and dig into the vinyl vault).

I have a shaped pictures disk of I Got the Message
a promo-only cd-single of Pop
a sealed vinyl LP of ROY - with the yellow-only cover
a promo-only LP of ROY - with the yellow-only cover
a German FOTE LP with only the symbol on the cover (no text)
a crappy remix of Safety Dance (says UK Remix, but is actually German) and
a metal badge of the Hats symbol.

Does this stuff count? I've seen a few of these pop up on Ebay now and then...

This has reminded me of something. Can anyone tell me why there are two
different covers and track listings for ROY?
I have a couple of copies, some with yellow covers and others
with yellow-blue-red covers (with different songs)...

Cheers,


Sterling



Matt McCarthy wrote:

> Also as a new member I am curious as to the oddest MWH items/ collectibles
> that exist. What have
> you got?    I saw Richards cool 1 sided records. Neat!



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Daniele Rossi" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Grammy nomination
Date: 19 Feb 2000 18:07:25 -0500


Hi everyone,

Today I was looking through a newspaper article which talked about past
Grammy nominees who didn't win.  I never knew Men Without Hats were
nominated in 1982.  They were up against Eurythmics and Culture Club won.
The award was for best new artist.  So....was the band there? :)



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Struck me as an interesting question
Date: 19 Feb 2000 19:12:54 -0800 (PST)



> Matt McCarthy wrote:
>
> > Also as a new member I am curious as to the oddest MWH items/ collectibles
> > that exist. What have
> > you got?    I saw Richards cool 1 sided records. Neat!
>


How about the Canadian promo lp for Pop Goes The World- came with a bunch
of flats, and several Men Without Hats symbol balloons.

Dave


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Sterling <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Cover Album
Date: 20 Feb 2000 13:27:24 +1000


Hi all, here's the latest...

I have been in touch with Stefan regarding the project.
He's been keeping a keen eye on our conversations and is, let's say,
intrigued at the possibility.

Here's the deal:

To get Stefan's written permission to undertake the project, he must
hear the final product to approve the content quality, before its
release. This is fair enough. I, too will be putting my business name to
the release and would like to scrutinize the recordings (if we go
commercial). I think this is an issue of recording quality, rather than
each musician's interpretation of the material. Remember, I've offered
to produce the recordings at no charge, so this shouldn't be a problem.

The second issue is one of royalties. I have yet to get Stefan's final
stamp on the cost to us, but I think it will be the standard rate of
7.55 cents per song per record. Which, at a pressing of 1000 CDs X 10
songs will cost us $755.00 (US).

However, and this is a BIG however. It may cost us nothing if we don't
go commercial.
Now don't get all excited - I have yet to get Stefan's written
permission for this. But, it may be that, if we just distribute this
amongst ourselves and the other list members (at the cost of production
and postage) we won't have to pay any royalties, as we're not making a
profit out of it...

I think that this may be a good way to go. Why? Because with the cost of
CDs plus royalties, we're looking at a cash outlay of approx. $500 (Au)
each (judging by the number of us that have expressed interest in the
project). Of course, if you want two songs on the album, you'll have to
pay that amount twice etc. Of course, if we can get more people on the
CD it will cost each of us less. We also have to consider that we'll
probably only fit 10 songs on, which means a minimum outlay of $300
(Au).

If we don't go commercial, It will cost us far less - we'll just have to
pay for the number of CDs we want. I'm happy to compile the album here,
and burn the CDs myself, charging only for the cost of the media and
postage - no profit. If we do it this way, we can see what the response
is - see how many orders we get. If it then looks worthwhile, we can do
the official release. After all, as big a fan as I am, I'd like to at
least make my money back on this... :-)

What to do now?

Well, have a think about how you feel about it and let me know.
I waiting on further information from Stefan, so I'll post it as I hear
it.

If you want to send music in, here's the address again:

Symmetry Entertainment
10 Whalley Street
Bargara
Queensland 4670
Australia

Cheers for now,

Sterling



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Lord Hasenpfeffer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Cover Album
Date: 20 Feb 2000 00:25:13 -0500 (EST)


Naaaaaahhh...

Myke


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Daniele Rossi" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) what I have is...
Date: 20 Feb 2000 10:39:03 -0500


> > > Also as a new member I am curious as to the oddest MWH items/
collectibles
> > > that exist. What have
> > > you got?    I saw Richards cool 1 sided records. Neat!
>
> How about the Canadian promo lp for Pop Goes The World- came with a bunch
> of flats, and several Men Without Hats symbol balloons.

balloons too??? :)

The only rarities I have are the 12" and the British 45 of "Antarctica".  I
had the 12" to "Living In China" but I sold it.



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Daniele Rossi" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Cover issue so far...
Date: 20 Feb 2000 10:37:25 -0500



[Sterling said:]
Well, have a think about how you feel about it and let me know.
I waiting on further information from Stefan, so I'll post it as I hear
it.


I guess it's ok.  Sure, why not? :)  But I doubt it'll be a commercial
success.  I don't mean to be negative, but I'm sure the public would prefer
to buy the real thing rather than a fan-made cover album.  Privately would
be a lot more successful because it's among ourselves and it's our work and
we'll enjoy it more.  By the way, how many people are subscribed to this
list?  I'd love to help create the artwork.  If more than one person
volunteers, maybe one can do the cover, one does the inside, the other does
the back, and another does the lael?



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: mike <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) what I have is...
Date: 20 Feb 2000 18:48:27 -0000


>I had the 12" to "Living In China" but I sold it.
is it rare?  i have a copy here in immaculate condition...

};-)



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Steve Jackson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (hats) Cover Album
Date: 21 Feb 2000 07:36:14 -0500


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sterling
> Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2000 10:27 PM

> Hi all, here's the latest...

[...]
> I'm happy to compile the album here,
> and burn the CDs myself, charging only for the cost of the media and
> postage - no profit.

Here's an idea:  is it possible that you could produce the masters in
MP3 (or similar) format, then send those to people who would act as a
"distribution center", who could in turn mail out the final CD to
people in their own country?  That way, we don't all have to pay for
postage from Australia, and we don't have to convert our money to
Australian dollars.  (What is Australian currency called, anyway?)

Just a thought...

And, yes, I'm interested in receiving a copy.  It would be fun to
contribute, too, but alas, I have no band.  I suppose I could call
myself, "Man Without Band."  ;-)

Glad to see the list and in particular this topic pick up again!

Take care, all!

Steve
--
mailto:[e-mail]
  http://www.synchrologic.com



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: mike <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (hats) Cover Album
Date: 21 Feb 2000 18:25:40 -0000


>Here's an idea:  is it possible that you could produce the masters in
>MP3 (or similar) format, then send those to people who would act as a
>"distribution center", who could in turn mail out the final CD to
>people in their own country?  That way, we don't all have to pay for
>postage from Australia, and we don't have to convert our money to
>Australian dollars.  (What is Australian currency called, anyway?)
but MP3's sound **** - i'm amazed people put up with them!  but what do i
know, i only own a digital recording studio...  and as for the idea that
CDs will be surpassed by MP3's and shops will die - well, i almost die
laughing!!!

as for postage from Oz - quite cheap...  unless you're a student.

mike @ pigpen digital



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Heidi <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) what I have is...
Date: 21 Feb 2000 14:03:34 -0500


  >>> Also as a new member I am curious as to the oddest MWH items/
  >>>collectibles that exist. What have you got?

I don't think I'd really call it odd or all that collectable but I still
have my tickets to the `83 and `88 Hats shows I've been to. Along with
an extra ticket for the `88 show that was never used so is still the
full unripped ticket. And I think I remember seeing a Hats logo button
in a pile of old stuff awhile ago.

    >>From: "Daniele Rossi" <[e-mail]>
    >>I had the 12" to "Living In China" but I sold it.
  From: mike <[e-mail]>
  is it rare?  i have a copy here in immaculate condition...

I'm also curious if they're worth anything. I've got several 12" that
I've been planning on getting rid of but haven't gotten around to it.
Ones for Living In China, I Got The Message, Where Do The Boys Go and
probably a few 7" singles also. Also does anyone know if there are any
plans at all for the 2/1 cd (ROY/FolkIII) to be released in the US? Carl
you still out there? I know people have been able to get it other places
but while I'd like a copy I really don't feel like paying import prices.

=}{=

([e-mail])



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Dr. Laura M. B. Kramer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Grammy nomination
Date: 21 Feb 2000 15:10:02 -0500


Daniele said...

> ... Grammy nominees ...  I never knew Men Without Hats were
> nominated in 1982.  ...
> So....was the band there? :)

I don't remember - I don't think they were since I was watching it
with my nose about 1/2 inch away from the screen to see if I could
see them. (cut me some slack - I was 13, OK?!!)

What I remember VIVIDLY is that the announcer when he was
revealing who won read the paper like this...

"And the Winner is ...
Men...
(scroll down)



(keep going - I guess he was trying to build suspense, but he was
just cheesing me off)







At Work."

I was obviously scarred for life by this event...  ;-)

:-) Laura in North Carolina

U-CD Cocoa CD NA NGC GS-N NJC JS-N CGC
     (1/2 OGC, 1/2 GS-O, 1/2 OJC, 1/2 JS-O)
Mustard CGC
Doctor Pepper CGC


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Sterling <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Cover CD Update
Date: 22 Feb 2000 09:52:56 +1000


Hi all,

In response to a couple of postings:

"is it possible that you could produce the masters in MP3 (or similar)
format, then send those to people who would act as a distribution
centre, who could in turn mail out the final CD to people in their own
country?"

In regard to MP3s, I'm afraid I absolutely have to agree with Mike here
- they do sound like ****.
I'm convinced that if we made MP3s, you'd all inevitably be thoroughly
disappointed. Let's not go there, please... It'll take only a little
more effort to create a product of considerably higher quality.


I have had further conversations with Stefan regarding the project.
To begin with, I have to assure you that Stefan has been most courteous
and open about discussing this with me. I believe he is genuinely
interested in what we're trying to accomplish.

Having said that, in regard to licensing the tracks, we have a few
legal, financial, and moral issues to deal with here. The information
below has been compiled from conversations I've had with Stefan, CMRRA
(Canadian Musical Reproduction Rights Agency Ltd.) and AMCOS
(Australasian Mechanical Copyright Owners Society) I have also yet to
hear from the Australian Copyright Council.

Firstly, let's agree to forget about sampling. If you decided to include
a sample from MWH, you would be obliged to pay for the privilege. The
amount of this fee would be entirely at the discretion of Stefan and
Ivan, as the creators of the sampled material. Furthermore, you may have
to pay a second fee to the music publishers - in this case Polygram, for
example. From memory, in Australia I can sample up to about eight bars
before having to pay royalties - I just have to acknowledge the samples'
creators on the CD. Don't quote me on this - it's been a while since
I've used samples in my work. Still, I'm choosing to say no for this
project. If anyone wants to sample, that's your prerogative - as long as
you pay for it.

Secondly, in regard to distributing the CDs amongst ourselves at no
profit, this is a very delicate situation. Although Stefan is concerned
about it, he is considering letting us do it (read on...), because it's
not like we would be making any money directly. The problem lies with
making money indirectly...

Imagine that we've set up a web site from which you can order them. No
problem. Except that now anyone with a copy and a burner can spin off
some more and maybe charge even a small fee for the trouble. Imagine
that someone who's not even a list member decides to buy a copy and dump
it on Ebay. I've no doubt that they could make a huge profit from that
venture...

Also, technically (and legally) we have to pay royalties because we've
merely manufactured the product. If it cost us nothing to make, we'd
still have to pay.

So we have to think carefully before we make another move. If we (the
musicians) decide to trade the music amongst ourselves, solely through
the list (that means no web site), Stefan will consider waving the
royalty fee (and we'll have to put him down for the first copy. LOL!).
If we decide we really want to go commercial with this, then... well you
know the rest. The big question we all have to ask is, "Are we creating
a tribute album or not?" I'm in either way, just let me know soon.

Cheers,


Sterling


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Daniele Rossi" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Grammy nomination
Date: 21 Feb 2000 20:06:51 -0500


> "And the Winner is ...
> Men...
> (scroll down)
> At Work."
>

Men At Work?  So I guess MWH were nominated in other categories then.  I
wonder if Stefan can tell us if they knew before hand whether they won any
of their nominations.  If you're reading this Stefan, give us the scoop! :)

Also....last week (I just remembered now to post this) I was reading the
paper and came across the article about the hackers who tinkered Yahoo et
al.  The headline read "RCMP knows their name".  It didn't take much for it
to put a certain song in my head all day :D

[about mp3s vs cd]
but MP3's sound **** - i'm amazed people put up with them!  but what do i
know, i only own a digital recording studio...  and as for the idea that
CDs will be surpassed by MP3's and shops will die - well, i almost die
laughing!!!


Uh oh...first it was vinyl vs CD now it's mp3 vs cd! :)  I don't know if
mp3's sound terrible but to me they're fine for stolen music ;)  Anyway, I
don't mean to start what could be a nasty thread but, I prefer buying CDs
over downloading an mp3.  I doubt mp3s will go anywhere beyond promotional
items.  My impression is people want a cover, pictures, jewel case, etc over
some megabytes of information they can erase forever.  Actually, to tell you
the truth, I miss vinyl.  Records and record players have so much character.
And I don't mean to start a nastier thread about CD vs Vinyl ;)



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Matt McCarthy" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Hooray!
Date: 21 Feb 2000 18:39:10 -0600


The MWH site has an update on the new CD!

http://mpgang.com/mwh%21%21%21.html

I for one am anxious as I have recently gotten 21st Century and know well
the happiness of getting a 'NEW' CD of my favorite group.          I know it
isn't new .... but it was to me!

Thanks to Stefan for the update.

The moon plays violin
MMM





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Kevin Lentz <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Cover CD Update
Date: 21 Feb 2000 19:51:37 -0600


Sterling,

Thanks for all the time and effort you're putting into this project! I
had a couple of further questions I was hoping you (or someone else)
might know.

I definitely like the idea of going commercial with the CD, but
truthfully am concerned with the cost. Maybe I'm being naive, but would
it be possible to try and find a record company that would foot the bill
for royalties, production, etc.? Even if it were for just one country
(i.e. Canada). If that's not how things work, just LMK, but I'm
wondering if that's an option.

Also, I have had for a while mp3s of some cover songs that have already
been recorded by Amateurs, Big Daddys, Chinese Detectives, Flat Stanley,
James Bee, and Motion. Has anyone thought of contacting these bands (or
are you in the list)? Again, just curious! Oh, and by the way, whichever
way we go, I definitely support going exclusively with .wav files and
avoiding .mp3s.

Thanks - I look forward to any reply. Also, if anyone is interested in
checking out my band, we have a webpage at www.glacid.net!
--=20
Kevin Lentz

Glacid
http://www.glacid.net

3=BE-inch Action Figure Archives:
http://www.toymania.com/334archives


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Sterling <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Cover CD Update
Date: 22 Feb 2000 18:21:23 +1000


Answers within...

Kevin Lentz wrote:

> ... would it be possible to try and find a record company that would foot
> the bill for royalties, production, etc.? Even if it were for just one
> country (i.e. Canada). If that's not how things work, just LMK, but I'm
> wondering if that's an option.

That certainly is a possibility, and I have been doing a bit of probing in
this area. Having said that, the political structure of the 'music industry'
(the key word here is industry) is what convinced me to set up my own company
in the first place. I've been burnt by businessmen in the past (raise your
hand if you've joined that club) and am dubious about going there again. If we
hand control of the funding to someone else we virtually hand over control of
everything else, too.

Record companies are good at marketing. Some of them are very good at it.
Think of it this way: have you ever considered why the top 40 is focused on
American and British sales? Where's the rest of the world? Population-wise,
I'd rather have a number one in China!! When I worked for a label (that will
remain nameless, obviously) in the UK, the marketing manager told me that
their whole focus was "the selling of sexual tension to teenagers".

Here's another story: I had another job in the UK as a producer for an
independent dance label. They used to get in unsigned bands and record their
albums at no charge. They'd then press the vinyl in the UK, but print the
labels in Germany or Belgium and flog 'em off as imports. But here's the best
bit. They used to distribute them amongst the smaller record bars for free
with the condition that they'd scan the records a lot. In other words, the
people in the shops would sit there, scanning these records all day long, to
suggest that they'd sold lots of them, when in reality they may have only sold
a few. What did they care?...They were getting them for nothing!

Then, with the records screaming up the independent charts (from being
scanned), people would actually go out and buy them - for real, this time. The
major labels would see the success of these bands and 'buy' them off us.
Amazing. This company was the fastest growing independent label in the UK, at
the time I was working for them - but it was all a scam!!

To cut a long(er) story short, I am considering using another company as a
distributor. It will all depend on the quality of the material we can give
them...

> Also, I have had for a while mp3s of some cover songs that have already been
> recorded by Amateurs, Big Daddys, Chinese Detectives, Flat Stanley, James
> Bee, and Motion. Has anyone thought of contacting these bands (or are you in
> the list)?

They've done Hats covers? If so, we'll have to let them know - the more the
merrier...
If anyone can track them down, it would be great.

To all:

Please forgive me for the length of this message. Special apologies go out to
the list members who may not be directly involved in this project, and would
rather not read my waffle. In light of this, it maybe an idea to converse
further about our project off the list. If you would all please send me your
addresses again, I'll post any lengthy messages or updates privately. If
there's anything small to say, just send it to the list, as normal. Note, that
I'll be forwarding all of our private conversations to Stefan too, as I
promised him I'd keep him informed of our progress.

Cheers,


Sterling



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Stefan Doroschuk <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Yo
Date: 22 Feb 2000 07:56:55 -0500


Hi everyone,

    Let me clear up a few points. Ivan and I are of course happy that there
would be a musical communinity out there ready to do a MWH covers album,
cassette, Realaudio or mp3 project. Either way, we are for sure behind
the project and will help in anyway possible. Sterling was just slightly
erroneous about the sampling thing, but generally, sampling will involve
getting permission from the labels (and paying them) that released each
record (they, in turn, will ask us). My suggestion is to forget sampling
and do your own thing with the song(s) you choose.
    If you just distribute this amonst yourselves, no problem, just send us
a couple of copies. But if you plan on doing a website to sell these CDs
or to find a label to distribute them, you will have to get our written
permission (and the permission of the co-publishers like Polygram or
Texas City Music). Of course something can be worked out should this be
the route that you chose. (The publishers just want to be in the loop
for their payments, and it would be Polygram... who would come looking
for you, not us, and I guarantee that you don't want that to happen.)
    A fan based venture (maybe along with the bands mentioned by Kevin
Lentz) is welcome and we hope that such a project will continue and
eventually see the light of day. If any help is needed, don't hesitate
to contact us, [e-mail] (soon to be menwithouthats.com)

With great thanks for your continuing support,

Stefan Doroschuk


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Date: 22 Feb 2000 15:33:48 -0500 (EST)


Personally, I would rather see the "lengthy" posts...even if I am not
involved in the project. I have no musical talent and therefore no
input, but it's nice to hear about what you are doing...and have done in
the past.



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: mike <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Cover CD Update
Date: 22 Feb 2000 22:23:02 -0000


>When I worked for a label (that will
>remain nameless, obviously) in the UK, the marketing manager told me that
>their whole focus was "the selling of sexual tension to teenagers".
hahaha... well, my band (alaska highway) will have no.1 every time then!!!

mike

http://www.alaskahighway.co.uk



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: John Kriens <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Message Bounce: Re: (hats) Cover CD Update
Date: 23 Feb 2000 12:31:02 -0800 (PST)


Sterling,

Curious, very curious.  My band is Flat Stanley and we
recorded a cover of Where Do the Boys Go? for the
first attempt at doing the Men w/o Hats cover CD about
2 years ago  (I think this is what Kevin is referring
to below).  We are very interested in having our
version put on the CD.  If there was enough interest,
we could do a new one, too, to add to the disk.

I know from my limited experience encoding MP3s that
sound quality definitely suffers with lots of little
artifacts (at least at the 128K encoding rate--I've
heard that the 160K rate sounds quite good).  When I
first listened to our MP3, I thought I'd somehow blown
the tweeters in my monitor speakers because of the
high-end artifacts.

I can send out our version in whatever format would be
the best.  I've digitized the final mix, so I can send
AIFF (or WAV if you're Windows-based), or a DAT (I
still haven't given back the DAT player I borrowed to
do this 2 years ago).

Kevin, can you put those MP3s up in some common place?
I've heard the Chinese Detectives and our versions,
but I'm curious about the others.  (I'm also curious
about your feedback on our song version. . .)

-John Kriens
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Daniele Rossi" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Message Bounce: Re: (hats) Cover CD Update
Date: 23 Feb 2000 22:21:55 -0500



> I know from my limited experience encoding MP3s that
> sound quality definitely suffers with lots of little
> artifacts (at least at the 128K encoding rate--I've

Actually, while we're on this subject, I think I may have stumbled onto
something.  I like to download mp3's (the elgal ones or at least the
loophole ones. tee hee cough cough) and then put them onto CD to listen to
at work or what-have-you, I keep hearing clicks or even somethign that
sounds like a record skipping (but the sources are clearly not from record).
I worried if it may be a defect in my cd recorder or perhaps even the blank
cds I use.  Does anyone else notice this?



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Richard Holdman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Men without Hats Test Pressing - MP3 Format
Date: 24 Feb 2000 13:57:55 -0700


Well it looks like nobody wants the Men without Hats Test Pressings.
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=262511305

I originally was in a bidding war with them and finally bought them for
$150. Now nobody wants them for $75.

Anybody want these? Make me an offer.

I am excited to see the Cover Project going. It will be neat to listen to
covers of Men without Hats songs. I really like the cover of Ban the Game
done the Amateurs. Also the cover of the Chinese Detectives doing Where Do
The Boys Go is awesome.

Now a few of my thoughts on the MP3 format. A few people have said that the
mp3 format sounds like ****. I admit that 128 and 160kpbs do not sound as
good as the original. Most people would could not tell the difference and I
bet nobody here could tell the difference between a RAW audio file and a mp3
file encoded at 256kbps. Also there is a big difference in which MP3 Encoder
you use. Some of the cheaper and freeware will not make as good as a mp3
file as the original Fraunhofer Encoder. It also mattes what mp3 player you
use to play back the mp3 file. After listening to several winamp seems to
sound the best.

I know a few of you still are not convinced that a highly encoded mp3 file
can sound as good as the original WAV. Try this test out if you have time.
Take a RAW WAV file and then convert it to mp3 at 256kps using a Fraunhofer
codec (not the cheap XING or others). I am not sure if the Fraunhofer
encoders are available on a MAC so try and use a PC. After the File is
converted into mp3 use the Fraunhofer Decoder to convert it back to WAV. Now
burn an audio CD of the original RAW audio file and the new WAV file that
you just converted to MP3 and back again. You should now be able to play it
back on your high end system and compare the two sources. Most people try
and listen to mp3s with their cheap soundcards hooking it up to their stereo
system or something. The only way to really test out how the mp3 format will
affect a song is to burn it back onto a normal audio CD.


When the cover CD is made I think we should make it available to everyone
that is on this list in the mp3 format at different bitrates. This way
people an download it on their own and burn it. Also we could get someone to
burn Audio CDs for those that still think the mp3 format sounds like crap
and those that just don't want to mess with mp3s.

-Richard




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Thomas Bieler <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) what I have is...
Date: 25 Feb 2000 01:54:01 +0100 (CET)


Hi!


I do have the promo 12" to the German 'Safety Dance' Maxi-CD. Exclusive
mixes, but not done by MWH...

Also, I do have the Canadian 12" of PGTW, which has the 'Boom Box Single
Mix', which doesn't seem to be available anywhere else.

The latter shouldn't be an odd item at all, it just strikes me odd that it
hasn't been mentioned anywhere else before. Is it rare???


As an aside...
I, too, think that the conversation about the Hats cover project should be
kept on the list. It is Hats-related and it is of general interest, plus I
see lots of new threads come off from it in the future...   ;-)


As another aside...
Wouldn't it be nice to have the list digest sent daily? That would still
bundle Hats-related email in our mailboxes at times of high traffic, but
we wouldn't be reading postings that are two weeks old at times of low
traffic. I think a digest per day, or maybe every other day, is what
digesting is meant to be about. Two week digests can be easily
accomplished by using the archives...  ;-)   Just a thought.


Best regards,
    Thomas Bieler


---
Was bedeutet eigentlich 'eigentlich'?




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Steve Jackson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) The Cover CD
Date: 25 Feb 2000 07:52:40 -0500


OK, ok... sorry!

My intentions were not to start up an computer-audio-technology
debate -- I don't like reading those.  I'm on another band's mailing
list, and the topic pops up from time to time over there, too.

If you'll remember, I wrote "(or similar)", meaning I don't care what
format the audio files are in.  My point was that we could really save
some money on this whole project if the master files (in whatever
format) were e-mailed to people in other countries who had the
capability to produce an Audio CD, and wouldn't mind contributing to
the project by burning the CDs and mailing them.  That way, you'd pay
someone in your own country with your own type of currency, and you
wouldn't have to wait for a package to be shipped from half-way around
the world.  (No, I have nothing against Australia, nor Australians.
In fact, I'd LOVE to visit some day.)

I'll be more careful to spell out exactly what I mean in future
postings!  :-)

On a similar note, when it comes time to pay for the CD, IF we're only
making this available to list members (and their immediate family and
friends?), then I think I found a way to collect the money quickly and
efficiently.  I almost didn't send this link, because I have not used
the service and I can't vouch for it, but they're trying to bump up
their membership count right now, and they're paying people $10 to
sign up.  It's called "PayPal", and it works something like this:  the
buyer logs on and tells the system to put $xx into the seller's
account.  The seller is notified, collects the money, and ships the
CD.  No mail, no wait, sounds cool.  If you're interested, here's the
link:

https://secure.paypal.com/refer/pal=steve.jackson%40synchrologic.com

[Yes, that was shameless: they're paying people $10 for each referral
they make, too.  Of course, you have the option of not using that link
(which would credit me with $10 if you sign on), and just going to
PayPal's home page and signing on directly.]

I've taken up enough of your time.

Steve
--
mailto:[e-mail]
  http://www.Synchrologic.com



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Sterling <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Men without Hats Test Pressing - MP3 Format
Date: 25 Feb 2000 17:45:08 +1000


Hi all, answers within

Richard Holdman wrote:

> I originally was in a bidding war with them and finally bought them for
> $150. Now nobody wants them for $75.
>
> Anybody want these? Make me an offer.

I'll give you a copy of everything my band produces in the future (CDs, videos,
whatever) and free tickets to every tour we do (backstage passes included)...
:-)

> I know a few of you still are not convinced that a highly encoded mp3 file
> can sound as good as the original WAV...etc

I agree (to an extent). I'm afraid I'm really, really fussy about sound quality
- but having good equipment even made Kylie Minogue sound good (Oops! sorry
Kylie...). I think the real issue for me is that I can't play an MP3 in my car,
etc.


> When the cover CD is made I think we should make it available to everyone
> that is on this list in the mp3 format at different bitrates. This way
> people can download it on their own and burn it.

The problem here is that we would be infringing copyright - there would no way
to estimate how many downloads we would make in advance (remember, we have to
pay royalties on each and every mechanical copy of the music we create -
regardless of the format). Bummer, though.

> Also we could get someone to burn Audio CDs ...

I think this is the better option. That way each individual can make MP3 copies
of the audio CDs at their own discretion (and deal with the subsequent copyright
infringement in their own time...LOL!!).

I have been receiving requests to leave the cover project conversations on the
list. No problem. If anyone wishes to object in the future, just let us know.

Cheers,

Sterling



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Alan Pendleton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Men without Hats Test Pressing - MP3 Format
Date: 25 Feb 2000 01:32:39 PST



I'd like them myself but money's a bit tight at the moment.Best I can offer
is $40. Have you asked Stefan/Ivan ? They might be interested, looks like
you have two sets of acetates, including a different mix of the album. I'd
say you have a real rarity, probably one of a kind.

Alan

Reply-To: <[e-mail]>


Well it looks like nobody wants the Men without Hats Test Pressings.
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=262511305

I originally was in a bidding war with them and finally bought them for
150. Now nobody wants them for $75.

Anybody want these? Make me an offer.

I am excited to see the Cover Project going. It will be neat to listen to
covers of Men without Hats songs. I really like the cover of Ban the Game
done the Amateurs. Also the cover of the Chinese Detectives doing Where Do
The Boys Go is awesome.


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: mike <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Men without Hats Test Pressing - MP3 Format
Date: 25 Feb 2000 18:36:53 -0000


>I bet nobody here could tell the difference between a RAW audio file and a mp3
>file encoded at 256kbps
how much u wanna bet?  MP3's loose resolution and get more wooly at the
bottom end...

mike @ pigpen digital




http://www.alaskahighway.co.uk/




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: MAGENTA <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) WOW! :o
Date: 25 Feb 2000 11:22:04 -0800 (PST)


All I can say is that I've been mutely (but keenly!)kept any eye on this
list to watch the development of this "project".  The energy and momentum
building here is fantastic, and something sorely needed here for quite some
time! Stefan, Your's and Ivan's support of the project speaks volumes. :)

I *do* sing, but have no way to record, so I will play the good "soccer mom"
and cheer you guys on from the sidelines....wooHOO! This WILL happen, and it
will be DAMN good! Personally, I think that the list  (or at least the
artists involved) should STRONGLY consider releasing this commercially, as
it should be heard. Maybe talk to Carl Oglio, eh? ;)

For now, this is Charlotte, signing off......film @ 11 ;)

p.s.:    For MooseMike, whose last email contained the following...

When I worked for a label (that will
>remain nameless, obviously) in the UK, the marketing manager told me that
>their whole focus was "the selling of sexual tension to teenagers".

Who in the hell did you work for? MUTE?  ;D


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Johan Hindstrom INF <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Men without Hats Test Pressing - MP3 Format
Date: 26 Feb 2000 11:58:53 +0200 (EET)



On Fri, 25 Feb 2000, mike wrote:

>
> >I bet nobody here could tell the difference between a RAW audio file and a mp3
> >file encoded at 256kbps

Right-O!


> how much u wanna bet?  MP3's loose resolution and get more wooly at the
> bottom end...
>
> mike @ pigpen digital
>

Ahem ... have you ever HEARD an MP3 at 256kbps ?!  :)
Even if you encode from an old tape (really risky) you
get no (audible) losses whatsoever at 256kbps.
I don't bet, but I DARE you to hear the difference between
.WAV (44100khz 16bit) and .MP3 (256kbps) !!!


               - J.H.



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "levelone" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Don't Like That Page
Date: 27 Feb 2000 16:50:59 +0100


Try this one out and wonder...


http://www.geocities.com/PicketFence/2883/bmwh.html




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Richard Holdman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Moon Beam Video
Date: 29 Feb 2000 11:18:54 -0700


Hello Folks

Well M2 just played "Moonbeam" the other day and I recorded it and converted
it to MPEG-1 VCD standards. The Video is on my freediskspace account. If you
already have an account at freediskspace.com just go to
http://pc.freediskspace.com/Folders/256769/
the sharing password is "videos"

If you don't have an account with freediskspace.com you will have to sign up
for one. Don't worry, it's free and you can get some space to transfer files
around.

If you are going to sign up with pc.freediskspace.com please use
Referrer number U000304D9
This way I can have more disk space and put up more videos.

Also don't download this video unless your have the original Japanese Laser
Disc import that was entitled "Songs from the 80s that have to do with the
moon" (which was never released because the factory burned down while they
were making it).



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Richard Holdman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) MWH test pressings
Date: 29 Feb 2000 11:21:38 -0700


I have had a few people e-mail me offering a lower amount for the MWH test
pressings. I decided to go ahead and relist this item on ebay and start the
bidding at $50 which is a total steal. You can view and bid on the item by
clicking below.

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=272621608

-Richard



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Richard Holdman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) moonbeam video
Date: 29 Feb 2000 15:13:07 -0700


Well it looks like Freediskspace is having some more problems so nobody can
download the moonbeam video. If you can not download it from FDS then use
this link below.

http://www.softcom.net/users/holdman/men_without_hats-moonbeam.mpg

Note that it is men_without_hats-moonbeam.mpg
This Video is pretty big - 37 megs

-Richard



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Bob Henderson <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) MWH Covers
Date: 29 Feb 2000 19:59:26 -0500


I'de be more than happy to submit a cover. I don't even want to make a
cent off of it. I'de just be thrilled enough that Ivan and Stefan would
hear it. I was thinking an instrumental for On Tuesday or Bright Side of
the Sun! Visit my site of music at www.members.home.net/hendersonbob


Bob Henderson!


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Bob Henderson <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) MWH Covers
Date: 29 Feb 2000 20:11:24 -0500


Ooops I meant to do a cover of O Sole Mio - I always call that Song
Bright Side of the Sun because it leads so nicely into O Sole Mio! So
i'll do both - what the heck! Oh and whatever format - my suggestion
email stefan zipped wave files - hopefully he doesn't have a problem
receiving 40 - 50 meg wave files - Come to it I can't make up my mind -
Here come the 90's is another fav!

Bob Henderson

Bob Henderson


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