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glencook-fans-digest     Wednesday, March 10 2004     Volume 01 : Number 283




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Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 00:23:46 -0600
From: "Bill Acuff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (glencook-fans) Black Co comments, Dread Empire - POTENTIAL SPOILERS

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Potential Black Company and Dread Empire Spoilers follow ....


...


...


...


...


...

Richard, loved your comments about the entire BC series (especially
about the central character -- the company -- not making it to the other
books).

I have to say I really enjoyed the first three + Silver Spike, all four
are probably in my top twenty fave books ever, but then didn't really
enjoy the rest of the books nearly as much ... Bleak Seasons being the
worst, and Soldier's Live being probably my favorite out of all since
Silver Spike ... and that is exactly why: no more company ... the group
of them, Croaker/Raven/Silent/Goblin/One-Eye/Otto/Hagop/The
Lieutenant/The Captain/etc., etc. ... it was just so dang enjoyable to
be part of that group and follow along with them in their many travails
and exciting times ... even when they were split up a little, they
always came back together ... sure it's more realistic and earthy and
original and all of that to have people actually die in fantasy fiction
rather than have them go on and on and on, but WE HAD plenty of that in
the early books (Mercy, Tom-Tom, The Captain, Marron Shed lol) --
difference being it didn't (until the end of The White Rose and the
entirety of The Silver Spike) completely gut the core of almost all of
the characters you loved ... and I missed that camaraderie so dang much
in the later books, to the point where all the other books suffered (you
kept reading and kept hoping that some of the old sparks would ignite
somewhere but they rarely did). I liked Silver Spike but only because of
loose ends being tied up and because of the characters ... the
Fish/Smeds/Tully group vs. the Darling/Silent/Raven group ... I HATED it
when Raven and Silent bought it, however, especially Silent ... also,
Croaker became a jerk, IMO, and I really didn't like him nearly as much
as I had (until, of course, Soldier's Live, when he narrated again and I
realized that he was still the same guy I'd liked lo those many years
ago, had he been the narrator I'd probably never disliked him <shrug>)
... that may be one of my main beefs right there: when Glen used Croaker
as a narrator, I personally enjoyed the story a LOT more ... when
someone else did it (I.e., Lady), it was interesting, but the story just
wasn't the same ...

I'm wrapping up the last (2nd sequel) of the Dread Empire series right
now. And I like it ... but dang, it was hard liking the first three ...
can't put my finger on why, maybe I'll understand better during the
inevitable re-read ... the prequels got a little better, IMO (I'm
reading them in publication order) ... but this last one, Reap the East
Wind, is the first one where I've actually begun to really, really care
about several of the characters, esp Bragi (rather than, as in the
earlier books, just one or two, that one or two being Mocker and
Ragnarson) ... now Micheal and Dantice and Pertraxis (sp?) and Mist and
the wizard (can't spell his name starts w/ a V lol) and Nepanthe and
Ethrian, etc., etc. ... these chars are in my heart in a big way now ...
and NOW the series is going to abruptly STOP because Glen hasn't
finished it yet ... oh, what a shame ... I understand why, but please,
Glen, find some way to finish this series. And why'd Glen have to go and
kill Mocker? And in such a goofy, ignoble way, too (being tricked and
all -- the fact that Bragi did it was kind of ironic and interesting,
but Mocker being fooled into being there in the first place was
disappointing, because by then you'd begun to think of Mocker as
immortal luck incarnate) ... I know it was part of the plot and all,
but, oh, man ... that bugged me so much ... about as much as Raven (when
he REALLY died) and Silent and Goblin ... but, that's the way Glen does
things (I like what somebody said: "was a main character just killed in
a meaningless way? WTF?"), so I guess we have to live with it ... but
Mocker, man, now THAT was a character I really enjoyed following and was
very sad to see his story end (of course, then the prequels allowed you
to see how he GOT to where he was in the main trilogy, which was nice)
... his way of speaking, in particular, made him one of the most
interesting characters I think Glen has ever created ...

Um, if you've read all of this, and you've read all of the Dread Empire
series, you may see that I'm almost done with Reap the East Wind and
realize I'm heading for a big disappointment very soon (by now I really
wouldn't be surprised if Glen kills everybody at the end -- only reason
I think he won't is because it seems everyone on this list would love to
see a sequel and doesn't SOMEONE have to survive for that to happen?
lol) ... well, we'll see here very shortly and then I can comment on
that ... thanks for reading ...

...

...


...


...


...


...


END BC and Dread Empire Spoilers

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<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D064573805-09032004><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Potential Black=20
Company and Dread Empire Spoilers follow ....</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D064573805-09032004><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D064573805-09032004><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D064573805-09032004><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>...</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D064573805-09032004><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D064573805-09032004><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D064573805-09032004><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>...</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D064573805-09032004><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D064573805-09032004><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D064573805-09032004><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>...</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D064573805-09032004><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D064573805-09032004><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D064573805-09032004><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>...</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D064573805-09032004><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D064573805-09032004><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D064573805-09032004><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>...</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D064573805-09032004><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D064573805-09032004><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Richard, loved your=20
comments about the entire BC series (especially about the central =
character --=20
the company -- not making it to the other books). </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D064573805-09032004><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D064573805-09032004><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have =
to say I=20
really enjoyed the first three + Silver Spike, all four are probably in =
my top=20
twenty fave books ever, but then didn't really enjoy the rest of the =
books=20
nearly as much ... Bleak Seasons being the worst, and Soldier's =
Live being=20
probably my favorite out of all since Silver Spike ... and that is =
exactly why:=20
no more company ... the group of them,=20
Croaker/Raven/Silent/Goblin/One-Eye/Otto/Hagop/The Lieutenant/The =
Captain/etc.,=20
etc. ... it was just so dang enjoyable to be part of that group and =
follow along=20
with them in their many travails and exciting times ... even when =
they were=20
split up a little, they always came back together ... sure it's more =
realistic=20
and earthy and original and all of that to have people actually die in =
fantasy=20
fiction rather than have them go on and on and on, but WE HAD =
plenty of=20
that in the early books (Mercy, Tom-Tom, The Captain, Marron Shed lol) =
- --=20
difference being it didn't (until the end of The White Rose =
and the=20
entirety of The Silver Spike) completely gut the core of almost all =
of the=20
characters you loved ... and I missed that camaraderie so dang much =
in the=20
later books, to the point where all the other books suffered (you kept =
reading=20
and kept hoping that some of the old sparks would ignite somewhere but =
they=20
rarely did). I liked Silver Spike but only because of loose ends being =
tied up=20
and because of the characters ... the Fish/Smeds/Tully group vs. the=20
Darling/Silent/Raven group ... I HATED it when Raven and Silent bought =
it,=20
however, especially Silent ... also, Croaker became a jerk, IMO, =
and I=20
really didn't like him nearly as much as I had (until, of course, =
Soldier's=20
Live, when he narrated again and I realized that he was still the same =
guy I'd=20
liked lo those many years ago, had he been the narrator I'd probably =
never=20
disliked him <shrug>) ... that may be one of my main beefs right =
there:=20
when Glen used Croaker as a narrator, I personally enjoyed the story a =
LOT more=20
... when someone else did it (I.e., Lady), it was interesting, but the =
story=20
just wasn't the same ...</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D064573805-09032004><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D064573805-09032004><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm =
wrapping up the=20
last (2nd sequel) of the Dread Empire series right now. And I like it =
... but=20
dang, it was hard liking the first three ... can't put my finger on why, =
maybe=20
I'll understand better during the inevitable re-read ... the prequels =
got a=20
little better, IMO (I'm reading them in publication order) ... but =
this=20
last one, Reap the East Wind, is the first one where I've actually begun =
to=20
really, really care about several of the characters, esp =
Bragi (rather=20
than, as in the earlier books, just one or two, that one or =
two being=20
Mocker and Ragnarson) ... now Micheal and Dantice and =
Pertraxis (sp?) and=20
Mist and the wizard (can't spell his name starts w/ a V lol) and =
Nepanthe=20
and Ethrian, etc., etc. ... these chars are in my heart in a big way now =
... and=20
NOW the series is going to abruptly STOP because Glen hasn't =
finished it=20
yet ... oh, what a shame ... I understand why, but please, Glen, =
find some=20
way to finish this series. And why'd Glen have to go and kill =
Mocker?=20
And in such a goofy, ignoble way, too (being tricked and all -- the fact =
that=20
Bragi did it was kind of ironic and interesting, but Mocker being fooled =
into=20
being there in the first place was disappointing, because by then you'd =
begun to=20
think of Mocker as immortal luck incarnate) ... I know it was part of =
the plot=20
and all, but, oh, man ... that bugged me so much ... about as much as =
Raven=20
(when he REALLY died) and Silent and Goblin ... but, that's the way Glen =
does=20
things (I like what somebody said: "was a main character just killed in =
a=20
meaningless way? WTF?"), so I guess we have to live with it ... but =
Mocker, man,=20
now THAT was a character I really enjoyed following and was very sad to =
see his=20
story end (of course, then the prequels allowed you to see how he =
GOT to=20
where he was in the main trilogy, which was nice) ... his way of =
speaking, in=20
particular, made him one of the most interesting characters I think Glen =
has=20
ever created ...</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D064573805-09032004><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D064573805-09032004><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Um, if =
you've read=20
all of this, and you've read all of the Dread Empire series, you may see =
that=20
I'm almost done with Reap the East Wind and realize I'm heading for a =
big=20
disappointment very soon (by now I really wouldn't be surprised =
if Glen=20
kills everybody at the end -- only reason I think he won't is because it =
seems=20
everyone on this list would love to see a sequel and doesn't SOMEONE =
have to=20
survive for that to happen? lol) ... well, we'll see here very shortly =
and then=20
I can comment on that ... thanks for reading ...</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D064573805-09032004><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D064573805-09032004><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>...</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D064573805-09032004><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D064573805-09032004><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>...</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D064573805-09032004><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2> </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D064573805-09032004><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D064573805-09032004><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>...</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D064573805-09032004><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D064573805-09032004><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D064573805-09032004><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>...</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D064573805-09032004><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D064573805-09032004><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D064573805-09032004><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>...</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D064573805-09032004><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D064573805-09032004><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D064573805-09032004><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>...</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D064573805-09032004><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D064573805-09032004><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D064573805-09032004><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>END BC =
and Dread=20
Empire Spoilers</FONT></SPAN></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 11:27:15 -0500 (EST)
From: Igor Filippov <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (glencook-fans) New to list

Just did a quick search on amazon.com for "Glen Cook" and it shows
as a "Related Searches" Steven Brust - these search engines are getting
smarter by the day, I'd definitely put Brust works next to Black Company
myself :)
I wonder if anyone can point to a place which might have  "Swap Academy"
(this has already been asked a few years back, but I can't remember
what the answer was and none of the usual suspects - ebay,half.com, amazon
can find it..) ?

As a side note I truly hated "Tower of Fear" and love "Passage at Arms".
Just my two cents.

Regards,
Igor


On Mon, 8 Mar 2004, S Townsend wrote:

> Hm.  My favorites, in order (roughly).  Hey, I have strange tastes maybe.
>
> Black Company (especially the first three)
> The Dragon Never Sleeps
> The SwordBearer
> The Dread Empire (mostly the middle three, then the first 2 prequels)  The
> last two are fine, but frustrating (there's no final novel yet)
> The Tower of Fear
> Garrets
> Passage At Arms
> Darkwar
> Starfishers
>
> Other misc stuff. Haven't read Sung in Blood so can't comment on that one.
> By all means read The Dragon Never Sleeps and The Tower of Fear.  Those are
> some of the finest stand alone novels in the Sci-Fi/Fantasy genre.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail]
> [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of Richard Chilton
> Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 4:26 PM
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) New to list
>
>
>
> [e-mail] wrote:
> >
> > Thank you for the quick reply and for answering my questions.
> >
> > I was looking at the Garrett novels, and they really don't interest me
> > story-wise.  Anyone have a different opinion on this?  Black Co vs
> > Garrett/Darkwar/Dread Empire Series?
>
> Everyone's tastes are different.
>
> The Black Company is Dark.  Garrett is light.  Dread Empire - Dark.
> Darkwar - haven't had time to read yet.
>
> >
> > I haven't looked into Darkwar or the Dread Empire Series at all.
> > Anyone think these are as good / better than the Black Company novels.
> >
>
> Dread Empire is as good or better than the Black Company.
> In that world there wasn't a Dominator, just a series of Taken class
> wizards.  Some are independent, others (most) work for the Empire (whose
> soldiers take around 10 years to train).
>
> The prequel books are from the point of view of one of the people who's an
> enemy in the main books.  The sequels switch view points a bit.  From a
> Black Company take some of it would be like the first novel from the Circle
> of 18 point's of view.
>
> Tis good - or at least I thought so.  Hard to find.
>
> Richard
>
> =======================================================================
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> <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>
>
>
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>

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Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 13:17:55 -0600
From: "Bill Acuff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (glencook-fans) RE: Black Co comments, Dread Empire - POTENTIAL SPOILERS

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DOH ... um, in my long meandering essay re. the Dread Empire I referred
to the last existing book in the series (I did this twice IIRC), the
second of the two sequels, as Reap the East Wind, when of course the
book I'm talking about is An Ill Fate Marshalling ... forgive the error
plz ...

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<DIV><SPAN class=3D302571519-09032004><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>DOH=20
... um, in my long meandering essay re. the Dread Empire I =
referred to=20
the last existing book in the series (I did this twice IIRC), the second =
of=20
the two sequels, as Reap the East Wind, when of course the =
book I'm=20
talking about is An Ill Fate Marshalling ... forgive the error plz=20
...</FONT></SPAN></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:45:45 +0000 (GMT)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Fraser=20Ronald?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) New to list

 --- Steve Harris <[e-mail]> wrote: > I'd like
to really recommend Glen's post-apocalypse
> novel, "The Heirs of
> Babylon".

I second that recommendation. Excellent book. Really
great and fast read. While I love each and every one
of the BC books (no exceptions) I am not much of a
series fan and I was thrilled when I finally found
this standalone Cook novel.

Also, I only have the third of the original Dread
Empire series, but I later bought "With Mercy Toward
None" (prequel) "An Ill Fate Marshalling" (sequel) and
"Reap the East Wind" (sequal). Great, great books.
Great series. That Dread Empire novel ("All Darkness
Met") was my first Glen Cook novel, and I was hooked.

And you _must_ read "Tower of Fear". Well, maybe not
_must_. I have spoken with people who didn't care for
it, but I loved it!

=====
Fraser Ronald
Sword's Edge
Writer: Blood & Guts: In Her Majesty's Service
Check out "Gifts of the Elder Gods" included in the Parasitorium: Terrors Within






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Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:18:25 -0600
From: "John F. Sachse" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (glencook-fans) New to list (some spoilers for the BC)

Very glad that the list is still kicking esp. with some familiar names.

As far as Covenant goes, I'm in line with Richard in that it was well beyond
the run of the mill, especially during the time frame in which it was
written.  Of course years later when I finally got more involved in the
SF/Fantasy community I was shocked at how vehement some people's hatred
towards the series is.  But for me it was the series that opened me up to
much more fantasy (other than Tolkien I had pretty much stuck to SF)

Some great comments on the Company as a character.

As for Glens other work, Starfishers is quite enjoyable.  Darkwar, while
strange as hell probably affected me in a psychological manner more than any
other series.  For some reason it really changed the way my thought
processes work.

Passage at Arms is quite good.  Dread Empire I read so long ago that I don't
remember much of it, and I still have to find a copy of A Shadow Of All
Night Falling to give it another read.

The Swordbearer, while readable is IMHO Glen's weakest piece.

The Dragon Never Sleeps is just hands down one of, if not the, best single
book I've had the pleasure of turning pages with.  The fact that it just
screams for a sequel and he's managed to leave it alone magnifies it even
more for me. When I fist saw it on the Internet Top 100 SF/Fantasy list I
was happily surprised that others seem to feel the same way I do about it.



[BC Spoiler space]















I do agree that the first Trilogy + SS are tighter and better pieces of
work, but I really do enjoy the rest of the series tremendously as well.

When Murgen's view appeared in the manner that it did, I was confused as
hell.  I thought that perhaps I missed something somewhere.  I asked myself
if I could possibly have missed a publication.  When it came back around I
was even more impressed with the writing.

Glen also did a tremendous job when Singh stole Croaker and Lady's daughter.
I was furious for days and quite grouchy when I finished that book  :)  When
Sleepy and a whole bushel of others bought it, I was a bit frustrated.  Glen
has always kept it real by killing just about every BC character he pens,
but at the time I really didn't see the point.  When Croaker does the switch
with Shivetya the light went off for sure.

Another thread that I really enjoyed was One-Eye's spear.  Just the way it
would be mentioned here and there throughout several books (the added time
between publications contributed to the effect).  It gave it a sense of heft
and meaning.

I didn't like the way Goblin bought it.  Coming back after his confrontation
with Kina just didn't do it for me.

I've always held out hope for Bomanz.  He was one of the characters that I
really loved and wanted to see more of.  He had some great moments, turning
his sons bones into goo with a Power Word, tailing the Limper on the carpet
and tweaking his spells and ripping off the Purple Granddaddy Power Spell
then gesturing that he didn't have anything left just before what was left
of the Limper rolled over him.  Just classic.

Ok, enough stream of consciousness.

How does everyone get their info on Glen these days?  All the old sites seem
stagnated and the Tor site is just no use at all.  I've heard about his
crime novel (interesting) and I knew about the D20 game, but I've not found
much else.

Also, does anyone have any insight on what's been going on with Glen other
than that he's retired from his day job?  There was a period of time when he
was the most prolific writer out there.  It seemed as though every time I
went to the bookstore he had something else on the shelf.  For the last ten
or fifteen years it seems that he's tailed off in quantity.

Again, I'm glad to see that the list is still going along!

Happy Monday


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