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glencook-fans-digest    Friday, September 12 2003    Volume 01 : Number 263




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Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 13:04:32 -0500
From: Stacey Harris <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Lack of news

Hi,

More Garrett?

Dunno.  The last book ends with no resolution of some things; but I
think he also said, a year ago (at Archon), that it would be the last
one.  But I've not seen him since last Archon, and I'm not planning on
going this year.

Steve

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Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 15:30:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Charles <[e-mail]>
Subject: (glencook-fans) Re: Lack of news

> There has been no news.  No news about the fantasy
trilogy that Glen
> Cook is supposed to be working on and nothing about
a new Black Company
> book that I wish he was working on.

As much as I like the Black Company, I'm more
interested in his new trilogy.

It would be nice to see him do something interesting
with [the guy with the head injury], but pretty much
everyone else I cared about is gone now, one way or
another. And I have mixed feelings about something set
in the Domination or whatever...the Books of the South
were interesting and entertaining, but I don't think
any of the later books are in the same league as the
first three, and I'd almost prefer he left the
backstory to my imagination. The White Rose has one of
the best endings of any story I've read, and The
Silver Spike just unraveled it and redid it in a much
less satisfactory way. There's such a thing as too
much, and it's almost always better to leave people
wanting a little more than wishing you'd stopped
sooner (ahem, Garrett).

I really want to read The Butcher's Apprentice, too.

__________________________________
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Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 00:19:57 +0000
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Re: Lack of news

To help keep traffic up, I'll just throw in a tidbit I came up with after finishing October's baby (for the umpteenth time) at lunch today:

Most fantasy novels are soda pop, Glen Cook is aged single-malt.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Charles [mailto:[e-mail]]
> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 10:30 PM
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: (glencook-fans) Re: Lack of news
>
> > There has been no news.  No news about the fantasy
> trilogy that Glen
> > Cook is supposed to be working on and nothing about
> a new Black Company
> > book that I wish he was working on.
>
> As much as I like the Black Company, I'm more
> interested in his new trilogy.
>
> It would be nice to see him do something interesting
> with [the guy with the head injury], but pretty much
> everyone else I cared about is gone now, one way or
> another. And I have mixed feelings about something set
> in the Domination or whatever...the Books of the South
> were interesting and entertaining, but I don't think
> any of the later books are in the same league as the
> first three, and I'd almost prefer he left the
> backstory to my imagination. The White Rose has one of
> the best endings of any story I've read, and The
> Silver Spike just unraveled it and redid it in a much
> less satisfactory way. There's such a thing as too
> much, and it's almost always better to leave people
> wanting a little more than wishing you'd stopped
> sooner (ahem, Garrett).
>
> I really want to read The Butcher's Apprentice, too.
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
> http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
>
> =======================================================================
>  To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
>  visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>



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Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 23:26:26 -0400
From: Mike H. <[e-mail]>
Subject: (glencook-fans) Reposting of Taken&Shadowmaster Analysis

Thanks for the update Lee..  I had feared that nothing happened since the=
n, =

unfortunately I guess I'm right. But hey? Maybe, as we speak, Glen is bus=
y =

writing at his desk with a letter from Tor as an impetus.

For Dave, Pat, Larry, and anyone else interested, here is the analysis, m=
inus =

the newbie introduction & spoiler space, but plus the later corrections a=
nd =

some new additions. Remember, it's long and annoying, but to my knowledge=
, =

clears up much confusion about who faked their deaths, which Taken died a=
nd =

how, etc., and at the end I even yak about how the original shadowmaster =
number =

wasn't 4, but 8. If you can't make it through the whole thing, then just =
read =

the second to last paragraph 1st ("So, the following Taken faked...") & c=
ome =

back for the rest later.


Okay, to keep it simple I'll put the Taken's name and
jump right into the specifics about his / her demise,
if any.

1) Soulcatcher - Still alive as of "Soldiers Live".

2) The Howler - Was believed to be killed when he
crashed into the Tower ("The Black Company" pgs
291-292), but faked that incident or just arranged for his survival.
Was confirmed killed by shadows and/or Taglians in "Soldiers Live" pg430.=

[See also the note below on the EIGHT Shadowmasters.]

3) The Limper - Survived too many incidents that I can
bother to count, but was finally killed in "The Silver
Spike" by being boiled, and having the remains buried
in a place only godlike powers could apparently access.

4) Stormbringer - Thought to have been killed by
Bonegnasher in the first novel p270. It was a
ruse, however, and she sneaked south to
become Stormshadow, one of the Shadowmasters.
Stormbringer was finally killed by Shapeshifter (who
had traveled south to do exactly that) after he mauled
her. She apparently was wounded seriously by the Company Lance
(when Murgen stabbed her before the mauling with
Shifter) just like Howler was when Croaker stabbed
him. It's obvious that the Lance's magical wounds disabled her
and therefore helped Shifter finish the job. In any case,
she died atop the tower in the citadel of Dejagore in
"Shadow Games". It was confirmed in "Dreams of Steel"
that she and Shifter were killed there and their
remains were dealt with properly. [See also the note
below on the EIGHT Shadowmasters.]

5) Shapeshifter - on p263 in the first novel, the
Captain delivers word that Shifter was lost, and that
"The circumstances were questionable...". However
Shapeshifter actually survived, and sneaked south. He
did this because he wanted to settle with Stormbringer
(because she had a hand in killing the Hanged Man, a
friend that Shifter wanted to rescue, and also
supposedly tried to murder Shifter himself, on p286 in "Shadow Games"). H=
is =

plan
worked, and he either killed her or severely maimed her
atop the citadel tower. Both of them were finished off
because they were too weak to defend themselves.
One-Eye sewed their orifices shut and dealt with their
remains according to Lady's suggestions which she gave
on p290 in "Shadow Games".

6) The Hanged Man - On p227 in the first novel, we
see Harden fling his giant sword in the general
direction of the three Taken who he had incapacitated
temporarily (remember, there were 4 Taken present, but he wasn't fast eno=
ugh =

for Shifter). Next page we learn that the sword landed
through the Hanged Man's skull. Though he was blubbering and
collapsing, and although Shapeshifter clearly wanted to help
him, Soulcatcher and Stormbringer did not. So, the
Hanged Man was not helped and allowed to die. It is
very likely that Stormbringer dealt with the
Hanged Man's remains afterward. If not, it doesn't
matter, since a sword through the brain is enough to
kill even the greatest sorcerer. This was mentioned
before, but I apologize since I cannot remember the
exact reference. Sorcerers can be beheaded and survive,
correct? But the brain's actual destruction is
something no sorcerer can survive. That is why the
Company had Shadowspinner's head as a trophy for
awhile; it was stated that the brain was removed and
destroyed and therefore posed no danger. Same thing with Kina,
when Goblin stabbed her through the brain with the super-spear from
One-Eye, as opposed to her heart: I say all this
just to reinforce that the Hanged Man is undeniably dead  :)

7) Bonegnasher - In the first novel, on p270, we're
informed that this man was killed, most likely by
Stormbringer, who was herself supposed to be killed
then too. Although he is a giant man, I have no trouble
believing that Stormbringer could kill him. She
could, after all, physically battle Shapeshifter
himself (in the forvalaka form, no less!) and give him
a run for his money. And since Bonegnasher is never
mentioned again, there is no reason to believe he
wasn't killed. Besides, Otto and Hagop would have
reported it if they didn't find Bonegnasher's body
after they exhumed the other Taken's corpses.

8) Nightcrawler - This character supposedly was lost to
Rebel action on p279, first novel. However: Otto
and Hagop could not find his body (pg 292 "Bleak
Seasons"). Which leads me to believe that Nightcrawler
was not actually killed there, and was one of the 3
people that were killed according to Uncle Doj. See the
note below on the EIGHT Shadowmasters for much more on
that.

9) Moonbiter - Supposedly killed during internal feuds
(on p279 in the first novel), Moonbiter was lost
the same day as the Faceless Man. Since we are told on
that same page that Moonbiter and the Faceless Man were
not killed by enemy action, it is logical that they
skragged each other. [Which is why I personally believe
that Moonbiter is the 3rd female Taken, since the Lady
said some female Taken "the bitches" were planning to help the Circle
because they were really in service to the super-male Dominator, and the
Faceless is a "Man".] But, just like Nightcrawler, Otto
and Hagop could not find her body (pg 292 "Bleak
Seasons"). See the note below on the EIGHT
Shadowmasters for much more on this.

10) The Faceless Man/Nameless One - Reportedly killed
during internal feuds on p279 in the first novel.
Not lost to enemy action. See Moonbiter above for more.
And, just like Moonbiter and Nightcrawler, Otto and
Hagop could not find his body. [See also the note below
on the EIGHT Shadowmasters.]

That's my list of the Taken and their demises. Please
debate any details in my writing you feel you should.
But I have some more before I leave.


WHY DID SOME TAKEN DEFY THE LADY IN THE NORTH?

In summary: during the battle at the Tower in the first book, some Taken =

rebelled in the North and were assumed dead. The Lady says the renegade T=
aken =

were the females, because they wanted to bring the Dominator back. The La=
dy is =

only partly correct. First, some of the men rebelled, too. Second, the re=
negade =

Taken in fact didn't give a crap about whether the Dominator came back or=
 not: =

they instead wanted the secret shadow power deep in the south. We're neve=
r told =

how they learnt of events in the south, however. Who knows.

Bringer(f) cleverly turned on Gnasher(m) in the first book to make the br=
ute =

think she had switched sides to the Dominator. She killed Gnasher then fa=
ked =

her death. The Faceless Man and Moonbiter were even more clever. One of t=
hem is =

likely a female, I suspect Biter simply because the other alternative has=
 "Man" =

in his name. Why do I suspect this? Because if they both wanted to ultima=
tely =

fake their deaths then run south, why not pretend that Biter, a female, w=
as =

fighting for the Dominator while the Faceless defended the honor of his =

mistress the Lady? We learn they were not killed by rebel action in the f=
irst =

book, then later learn that their bodies were not even found. So I bet th=
at =

Biter and the Faceless pretended to kill each other, then hauled ass sout=
hward =

along with Howler, Bringer, and Nightcrawler. The last of those was the l=
east =

creative of the bunch of fugitives: Crawler just faked his death during r=
ebel =

action. As for Howler, he made it appear that one of the women sabotaged =
his =

flying carpet. His ultra-powerful cloak protected him in that memorable c=
rash =

into the Tower, however.


THE ****EIGHT**** SHADOWMASTERS.
Readers of the series know of only 4 Shadowmasters. There were originally=
 =

eight. This is interesting because it finally clears up all the mystery o=
f the =

disappearing/supposedly-dead Taken from the north:

Uncle Doj says (Water Sleeps pg. 150) that Longshadow
went with the Nyueng Bao pilgrims and their false key
to the shadowgate. Once they got there, they
encountered Shadowspinner under the name Ashutosh
Yaksha "and a half-dozen other sorcerers waiting." So,
that's 6 other people, plus Shadowspinner and
Longshadow, which of course makes eight. He then says
that "several were fugitives from [the north]". Well,
look at the known list of the four Shadowmasters:

1) Longshadow (aka Maricha Manthara Dhumraksha)
2) Shadowspinner (aka Ashutosh Yaksha)
3) Moonshadow (Glen tells us nearly nothing about this guy, save that
Soulcatcher saw him transfixed on the Lance and disposed of him
and recognized that he was NOT a Taken)
4) Stormshadow (aka Stormbringer; Taken fugitive)

Obviously, Moonshadow and Stormbringer/Stormshadow were
2 of the "half-dozen other sorcerers" that Doj
mentioned. But what about the other 4? Well, Doj says
that Howler was there, and was cruelly injured and
fled. Which makes perfect sense, since he made a home
with the swamp pirates after fleeing the shadowgate.

5) Howler (Taken fugitive)

Now we're left with 3 other missing people. Since Otto
and Hagop found no bodies for 3 certain Taken, it is totally
logical that these three AWOL sorcerers are the unnamed
trio.

6) Nightcrawler (Taken fugitive, like Howler and Bringer)
7) Moonbiter (Taken fugitive)
8) The Faceless Man (aka the Nameless One; Taken fugitive)

[So what the frick happened to those three? How did they Finally die, if =
at =

all? Recall that Uncle Doj said three of the would-be shadowmasters died =
under =

the shadows' initial onslaught before Longshadow closed the shadowgate wi=
th the =

power of his own name. Logically, imho, it was these three unfortunate Ta=
ken, =

who had faked their deaths to trick the Lady and the rebels up North just=
 to =

find their own power in the deep south. The best laid plans...]

So, the following Taken faked their deaths to free themselves from the La=
dy and =

then to gain immense power in the south: the Howler, Stormbringer, =

Nightcrawler, Moonbiter, and the Faceless Man.
=95 Three early shadowmasters were killed when the shadows overran the or=
iginal =

eight in a scene we didn't see, but only Uncle Doj described. It's my the=
ory, =

as described earlier in this post, that those three are the last 3 Taken =
from =

the list above.
=95 The Howler was seriously injured and fled to the swamp pirates furthe=
r north.
=95 Stormbringer, a survivor of the first shadow crisis in the south and =
now =

called Stormshadow, a successful shadowmaster, was finally bagged by =

Shapeshifter (who traveled south for vengeance for his friend the Hanged =
Man, =

not to become a shadowmaster like Bringer).
A final note about this: I now think Soulcatcher was supposed to join the=
 five =

renegades. Unfortunately she got decapitated en route, and never even mad=
e it =

south in time for the shadowgate crisis where the three died and Howler g=
ot =

mauled. I've left her out of all this because she gets enough treatment i=
n the =

books. The other Taken hardly get any.

Please tell me if you agree or not on any points, or if you have some evi=
dence =

to refute any of my stuff. =

- -Welly


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Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 23:05:47 -0500
From: "Ron Spence" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Re: Lack of news

I don't know if this is old news - it was new to me.

I was looking for a publishing schedule for another author, and found
this site:

http://scifan.com/writers/cc/CookGlen.asp

They list two titles for Glen for his 'unpublished' Dread Empire
sequel.

"The Cruel Storm"
"A Path to Coldness of Heart"

One comment listed:
"These two books were scheduled but will they ever be published?"

Ron



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Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:12:53 -0500
From: David Ainsworth <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Reposting of Taken&Shadowmaster Analysis

Thanks for the repost... not sure I ever saw the original.

Being an extraordinary picky person, I've made a few notes, comments, etc.

At 11:26 PM 9/11/2003 -0400, Mike H. wrote:
>5) Shapeshifter - on p263 in the first novel, the
>Captain delivers word that Shifter was lost, and that
>"The circumstances were questionable...". However
>Shapeshifter actually survived, and sneaked south. He
>did this because he wanted to settle with Stormbringer
>(because she had a hand in killing the Hanged Man, a
>friend that Shifter wanted to rescue, and also
>supposedly tried to murder Shifter himself, on p286 in "Shadow Games").

Actually, it's pretty clear Lady sent Shifter south in case her plan went
wrong, to prepare an escape route for her.  Witness the large amount of
magical materials he turns over to her.  Lady later sends Lisa as an
apprentice for Shifter, indicating that she knows where he is.  Also, since
Stormbringer doesn't cut and run until AFTER Shifter heads south, he can't
have been in pursuit of her.

>Uncle Doj says (Water Sleeps pg. 150) that Longshadow
>went with the Nyueng Bao pilgrims and their false key
>to the shadowgate. Once they got there, they
>encountered Shadowspinner under the name Ashutosh
>Yaksha "and a half-dozen other sorcerers waiting." So,
>that's 6 other people, plus Shadowspinner and
>Longshadow, which of course makes eight. He then says
>that "several were fugitives from [the north]".

The problem here is to determine what "several" means.  Any number of the
Shadowmasters could have been from the same places as Longshadow and
Shadowspinner.  It seems unlikely to me that "several" means "half."

In addition, I see no reason to believe that the Taken versus Taken battles
indicated in The Black Company weren't genuine.  That suggests that one of
the two (Faceless/Moonbiter) was either genuinely killed, or had a genuine
feud with the other, making it unlikely they'd have evacuated
together.  Moonbiter's tactics in combat seem to suggest a rather
straightforward mind, so I'd point to the Faceless Man as the likely
escapee.  However, 'Catcher expected Moonshadow to be one of the Taken.  So
the question is whether she expected that on the basis of the name, or for
more concrete reasons.

Nightcrawler, if lost to rebel action, may have been destroyed completely,
leaving no body to bury.

Is it clear that all of the present Shadowmasters were Shadowmasters when
the Gate went the first time?  Moonshadow, for example, may have been a
lesser sorcerer who took the place of a Shadowmaster who was killed.

David


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End of glencook-fans-digest V1 #263
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